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What does it really mean to obey Christ’s command to love—family, church, nation, and the nations—in the right order? In this episode of the American Reformer Podcast, Timon Cline sits down with Alex Kocman, author of Ordered to Love, to unpack the Ordo Amoris, Protestant political theology, missions, and patriotism.   Alex Kocman is a Christian writer, podcaster, and church leader. He serves as Director of Communications and Engagement for ABWE and co-hosts The Missions Show and The World View podcasts. He is the author of the brand new book, Ordered to Love. https://press.founders.org/shop/ordered-to-love/   Learn more about Alex Kocman's work: https://alexkocman.com/about/   Why Ordered to Love had to be written: https://alexkocman.com/2026/01/16/why-ordered-to-love-needed-to-be-written/   Timestamps: 0:00 – Intro & Welcome to American Reformer Podcast 0:37 – Who Is Alex Kocman? Missions, Media, and Theology 4:02 – Why Ordered to Love? The Flashpoints Behind the Book 10:25 – Universalism vs. Parochialism in the Church 16:53 – Do Christians Have a Duty to Love Their Own Nation? 24:25 – Nations in Scripture: From Abraham to Revelation 34:17 – How Grace Restores Nature 40:32 – What Is a Nation? Beyond ‘Propositional’ America 48:39 – Evangelical Guilt, Vocation, and ‘Real’ Ministry 58:04 – Final Exhortation: Missionaries, Activists, and the Order of Love   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

How can ministers of the gospel impact the state house? George Sayour of the PCA's Ministry to State in Tallahassee joins the show to discuss.    George Sayour, Senior Pastor at Meadowview Reformed Presbyterian Church since 2019, transitioned from a career in engineering to education and administration. He holds a Master of Divinity from Knox Theological Seminary and is involved in various ministries, including Ministry to State (MTS) which he joined in March 2025. Now in Tallahassee, George ministers to elected representatives as the State Capitol Minister for Florida.   Learn more about George Sayour's work: https://meadowviewpca.org/profiles/george-sayour/ https://www.ministrytostate.org/post/george-sayour-joins-mts-as-state-capitol-minister-for-north-carolina   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Auron MacIntyre joins the show to talk about intramural conflicts in the MAGA coalition.    Auron MacIntyre is the host of “The Auron MacIntyre Show” and a columnist for Blaze News. He offers thought-provoking and mold-breaking insights, drawing from the best political thinkers throughout history to make sense of our current political climate in a way that is easy to digest. He is Author of The Total State: How Liberal Democracies Become Tyrannies.   Learn more about Auron MacIntyre's work: https://www.theblaze.com/u/auronmacintyre https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre https://www.regnery.com/9781684515585/the-total-state/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

How do Protestants compete in the online apologetics space? Austin Suggs joins the show to provide some insight.    Austin Suggs is the founder of Gospel Simplicity, an online apologetics platform that dives deep on theological issues. Austin is a non-denominational Protestant and theology graduate from Moody Bible Institute.   Learn more about Austin Suggs' work: https://www.gospelsimplicity.com/about https://www.youtube.com/gospelsimplicity https://austinsuggs.substack.com/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Patrick Casey talks to Timon about how to maintain focus in the MAGA coalition.    Patrick Casey is an American writer, podcaster, and political commentator based in Washington, D.C. He is the host of the podcast Restoring Order, where he discusses topics such as politics, social science, longevity, gene editing, and credentialism, often from a moderate paleoconservative perspective. Casey contributes written work to publications including Chronicles Magazine, The Federalist, The Blaze, and American Conservative.   Show Notes: Restoring Order | Patrick Casey | Substack Restoring Order | Podcast on Spotify   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Wade Stotts, host of the Wade Show with Wade Stotts, talks to Timon about Trump, media, humor, the future of the right after Charlie Kirk, and much more.    Wade Stotts is an American thought leader, host of "The Wade Show with Wade," and an acclaimed voice actor having narrated a pleathora of audiobooks. He previously worked as Creative Director for the Louder with Crowder show. He lives in Moscow, Idaho with his wife and kids.   Learn more about Wade Stotts' work: https://canonplus.com/pages/wade-stotts https://x.com/wadestotts   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Pastor Jake Dell joins the show to talk about how we can revive the Protestant mainline and save historic churches from the Left.    Jake Dell is the pastor of the First Congregational Church of Woodbury, Connecticut, and a former Episcopal priest.   Learn more about Jake Dell's work: https://www.firstchurchwoodbury.org/ https://substack.com/@jwdell https://americanreformer.org/author/jake-dell/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Professor of Church History at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, John Wilsey, joins the show to talk about his new book, a primer on the conservative tradition and religious freedom.    Show Notes: Purchase Religious Freedom: A Conservative Primer – https://a.co/d/i2Y99jj   Dr. John Wilsey is Professor of Church History and Philosophy and Chair of the Department of Church History and Historical Theology. Prior to coming to Southern, Wilsey taught elementary, middle, and high school students in history and Bible for eleven years in North Carolina and Virginia. He also has served Southern Baptist churches, as an associate pastor in Charlottesville, Virginia for eight years and interim pastor for three years in Spring, Texas   Learn more about John Wilsey's work: https://www.sbts.edu/faculty/john-d-wilsey/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Caleb Morell, assistant pastor at Capitol Hill Baptist Church and PhD candidate at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, talks to Timon about his new book, a history of Capitol Hill Baptist.    Show Notes: Purchase A Light on the Hill – https://www.amazon.com/Light-Hill-Surprising-Influenced-Evangelicalism/dp/1433592894/?tag=thegospcoal-20   Caleb Morell is a historian and assistant pastor at Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, DC. He completed his Master of Divinity at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky and is currently a doctoral student in historical theology at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City, Missouri and an Associate of Newton House, Oxford.   Learn more about Caleb Morell's work: https://x.com/calebmorell https://www.capitolhillbaptist.org/about-us/leadership-staff/member/1527259/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

The editorial team discusses the meaning and impact of the assassination of Charlie Kirk and what the right needs to do going forward.    Timon Cline is the Editor-in-chief of American Reformer. Prior to his appointment as editor-in-chief, he was a deputy attorney general in the Office of the New Jersey Attorney General. He is a graduate of Rutgers Law School and Westminster Theological Seminary, the Director of Scholarly Initiatives at the Hale Institute at New Saint Andrews College, a fellow at the Craig Center at Westminster Theological Seminary, and an opinion contributor at World. His writing has appeared at American Mind, the American Conservative, and Modern Reformation, among others. He is a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and lives in Philadelphia with his wife and son. https://americanreformer.org/about/   Mike Sabo is a Contributing Editor of American Reformer and an Assistant Editor of The American Mind, the online journal of the Claremont Institute. His writing has appeared at RealClearPolitics, The Federalist, Public Discourse, and American Greatness, among other outlets. He lives with his wife and son in Cincinnati. https://americanreformer.org/author/mike-sabo/   Ben R. Crenshaw is a Visiting Assistant Professor at the Declaration of Independence Center at the University of Mississippi. He is a Ph.D. candidate in Politics at the Van Andel Graduate School of Statesmanship at Hillsdale College. You can follow him on X at @benrcrenshaw. https://americanreformer.org/author/bencrenshaw/ https://gradschool.hillsdale.edu/Profiles/Benjamin-Crenshaw/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Pavlos Papadopoulos, professor of humanities at Wyoming Catholic College, talks to Timon about the ideas that undergird the Declaration of Independence.   Notes: American Heritage and the American Idea - American Reformer   Dr. Papadopoulos joined the Wyoming Catholic College faculty in 2018. A native of New England, he has traveled steadily south and west in pursuit of a liberal education: to St. John’s College in Annapolis, Maryland, where he first encountered the great books, and to the University of Dallas, where he received his doctorate in political philosophy. At Wyoming Catholic College, he has taught courses in the humanities, trivium, and philosophy tracks. Dr. Papadopoulos’s essays on politics, culture, and education have appeared in First Things, The American Conservative, The American Mind, and elsewhere. Since 2023, he has served as faculty representative to the college’s Board of Directors.   Learn more about Pavlos Papadopoulos: https://wyomingcatholic.edu/person/pavlos-papadopoulos-ph-d/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Nathan Pinkoski, fellow at the Center for Renewing America, talks to Timon about postliberalism, the radical shifts of the 1990s, and right wing literature.    Notes: Actually Existing Postliberalism - First Things The Camp of the Saints - Paperback – Itasca Books Spiritual Death of the West - First Things   Nathan Pinkoski earned his BA (Hon) from the University of Alberta and his MPhil and DPhil in Politics from the University of Oxford. He’s taught at Princeton University, the University of Toronto, and the University of Florida. Pinkoski’s research and writings cover the decline of republican government and the rise of postconstitutionalism in the United States and Western Europe. He has published in a variety of academic and popular journals, including Compact, First Things, Perspectives on Political Science, and The Claremont Review of Books. His book project, Actually Existing Postliberalism, examines the transformation of the West since 1989. It is under contract with Basic Books. He is also translating Éric Zemmour’s bestseller The Suicide of the French (Le Suicide français) into English for Encounter Books.   Learn more about Nathan Pinkowski: https://americarenewing.com/team/nathan-pinkoski/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

The popular internet pseudonym, Pax Americana, joins Timon to talk about aesthetics, nostalgia, and the American right.    @1776pax is an X account dedicated to countering narratives that portray America as systemically flawed, emphasizing its heritage and values. Founded to challenge decades of negative programming, it rejects the notion of America as merely a landscape of strip malls and instead promotes historic American traditions and cultural principles that preserve the nation’s founding ideals.   Learn more about Pax Americana: https://x.com/1776pax   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Chase Davis and Joe Rigney join the show to talk about spiritual formation, worship, masculinity, and corporate agency.   Notes: Spiritual Formation and the Trouble with Christian Nationalism - American Reformer   J. Chase Davis (M.Div, Th.M, Denver Seminary) is Lead Pastor of Ministry of The Well Church in Boulder, Colorado. Chase is married to Kim and they have two sons. He is the author of Trinitarian Formation: A Theology of Discipleship in Light of the Father, Son, and Spirit (2021). He also hosts the podcast Full Proof Theology. You can find more of Chase’s writing at jchasedavis.com.   Learn more about J. Chase Davis: https://www.jchasedavis.com/   Dr. Rigney is an Associate Pastor at Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho and serves as Fellow of Theology at New Saint Andrews College. He is the author of seven books: Live Like a Narnian: Christian Discipleship in Lewis’s Chronicles (Eyes & Pen, 2013); The Things of Earth: Treasuring God by Enjoying His Gifts (Crossway, 2015); Lewis on the Christian Life: Becoming Truly Human in the Presence of God (Crossway, 2018); Strangely Bright: Can You Love God and Enjoy This World? (Crossway, 2020); More Than a Battle: Experiencing Victory, Freedom, and Healing from Lust (B&H, 2021), Courage: How the Gospel Creates Christian Fortitude (Crossway, 2023), and Leadership and Emotional Sabotage (Canon Press, 2024). Previously, Dr. Rigney served as a professor and president of Bethlehem College & Seminary in Minneapolis, a pastor at Cities Church in St. Paul, and a teacher at Desiring God. Joe lives in Moscow, Idaho with his wife Jenny and three sons.   Learn more about Joe Rigney's work at: https://nsa.edu/contributors/joe-rigney https://emotionalsabotage.com   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

Amy Wax, professor of law at the University of Pennsylvania, talks to Timon about her cancellation, the state of academia, and western civilization.    Amy Wax is a tenured professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she has taught since 2001, holding the Robert Mundheim Professor of Law chair since 2007. A native of Troy, New York, she earned a B.S. summa cum laude in molecular biophysics and biochemistry from Yale in 1975, a Marshall Scholarship to Oxford, and an M.D. from Harvard Medical School in 1981, where she trained as a neurologist. She completed her J.D. from Columbia Law School in 1987, serving as an editor of the Columbia Law Review. Wax clerked for Judge Abner J. Mikva and argued 15 cases before the U.S. Supreme Court while working in the Office of the Solicitor General. She taught at the University of Virginia School of Law from 1994 to 2001. Her academic work focuses on social welfare law, family policy, and labor markets. In 2024, she was suspended from teaching for one year due to controversial statements, which she challenged in a lawsuit.   Learn more about Amy Wax's work: https://www.law.upenn.edu/faculty/awax/ https://www.thefire.org/cases/university-pennsylvania-following-controversial-commentary-amy-wax-faces-major-sanction-penn   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5