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What happens when the founder of Internal Family Systems and a cognitive scientist of meaning sit down to compare notes on parts, Self, and the guides that show up when the inner world quiets? In this Lectern dialogue, psychotherapist Seth Allison takes the host chair so John Vervaeke can talk peer to peer with Dick Schwartz, the creator of Internal Family Systems (IFS). Dick tells the origin story: a 1980s outcome study with bulimic clients who kept talking in the language of parts, a cutting part that changed everything when he stopped trying to beat it, and the discovery of a Self with calm, confidence and compassion beneath the parts. John traces his own path from a punitive fundamentalist upbringing through Socrates, Pierre Hadot and 4E cognitive science to IFS, and describes the day a presence announcing itself as Hermes interrupted his practice. From there, Seth proposes that every part is doing its own relevance realization, and the three explore salience landscapes, parasitic processing, reciprocal narrowing and reciprocal opening, and what happens when the Self brings Socratic dialogue to the inner system. Dick speaks publicly about the guides he has kept quiet about for 30 years and the new book he is writing on the spirituality of IFS. John asks whether parts need education as well as healing, argues that some cognitive distortion is built into being a finite mind, proposes an experiment to test it, and makes the case that IFS is a sophisticated form of ritual. They close on psychedelics, integration, and IFS as one way back to the spiritual wisdom modernity cut us off from. Seth Allison is a psychotherapist, coach and teacher whose work is about creating containers where transformation and growth can happen. Dick Schwartz is the developer of Internal Family Systems. John Vervaeke is a cognitive scientist and philosopher whose work explores cognition, meaning, wisdom, and the meaning crisis. Seth Allison - LinkedIn Awakening from the Meaning Crisis - John Vervaeke Daemons Are Forever 00:00 Cold open: guides and Hermes-like experiences 01:10 Welcome: Seth Allison takes the host chair 02:50 Check-ins 03:50 The origin of IFS: a bulimia study and the language of parts 07:40 The cutting part and "I give up" 10:10 "We can safely say that there are no bad parts." (Dick Schwartz) 11:05 Discovering the Self and its C-word qualities 14:40 John's two streams: science and spirit 17:50 Hadot, spiritual exercises and 4E cognitive science 20:50 COVID, attachment theory and finding IFS 22:15 Hermes shows up during IFS practice 24:00 Predictive processing and the three meta problems 29:40 Precision weighting and relevance realization 32:10 Agency, autopoiesis and transjective meaning 34:45 Seth's proposal: every part does relevance realization 38:00 Salience landscapes and reciprocal opening 42:05 Parasitic processing and reciprocal narrowing 44:45 Socratic dialogue with parts 47:10 Why Hermes showed up: John's hypothesis 49:00 The Self as a Socratic third party 50:15 The spirituality of IFS and guides 52:30 Making change last: protectors and unburdening 53:40 Beyond therapy: the existential project and the divine double 56:50 IFS as attachment theory taken inside 58:25 Spiritual bypassing and the "pesky ego" 01:01:20 Do parts need education, not just healing? 01:05:55 Education vs. unburdening 01:09:40 Cognitive distortion beyond trauma 01:13:45 An experiment John proposes 01:15:45 Legacy burdens 01:16:35 Is Self optimal relevance realization? 01:19:40 Dick's new book and lost spiritual wisdom 01:21:50 IFS as ritual 01:25:35 Psychedelics, integration and IFS 01:28:05 Last words The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

What if becoming wiser requires a relationship with a "divine double" within you? In episode three of the series, John and Harvard's Charles Stang move on from Plato, Xenophon, and Aristophanes to Apuleius' 2nd-century text On the God of Socrates, which imagines philosophy as a kind of daimonology that begins and ends with two daimons: the daimon that is your soul and the daimon that is your double. Apuleius presents daimons as intermediaries between dispassionate gods and passionate humans, translating the gods' care into the language of emotion, and then complicates his own taxonomy: human souls are themselves daimons, the air is populated by the formerly embodied dead, and some daimons were never embodied at all and attach themselves to our souls as guides. Along the way, John and Charles compare daimons with biblical angels and connect the daimonic to internal family systems, grief-time encounters with the dead, dialogical rationality, the future self, and intuition as non-conscious pattern detection that needs dialectic as a check. John speaks openly about a waking vision and a dream of Hermes, before Charles previews Porphyry's story of an Egyptian priest summoning Plotinus' daimon at the temple of Isis in Rome. Charles Stang is Professor of Early Christian Thought at Harvard Divinity School, Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions at Harvard, and the author of Our Divine Double. In this episode, he guides John through Apuleius' On the God of Socrates and its vision of philosophy as knowing your own daimonic soul and cultivating a relationship with its divine double. John Vervaeke is a cognitive scientist and philosopher whose work explores cognition, meaning, wisdom, and the meaning crisis. In this conversation, he brings 4E cognitive science, the dialogical self, and research on intuition to bear on Apuleius' account, and shares his own encounters with Hermes. Study the daimon with Charles: Daemons in Divinity on The Lectern Charles Stang's Web On the God of Socrates - Apuleius Our Divine Double - Charles M. Stang Symposium - Plato Divination and Human Nature - Peter T. Struck Divination and Theurgy in Neoplatonism - Crystal Addey On the Life of Plotinus - Porphyry The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

What was Socrates actually hearing when his daimon spoke, and why might the space in-between, neither purely inside us nor fully outside us, be the key to discerning spirits today? In part two of the Lectern series on the daimon, Charles Stang and John Vervaeke move from Plato to Socrates' other witnesses, Xenophon and Aristophanes. Charles shows that the indictment against Socrates charged him with not worshipping the gods of the state (theoi) and with bringing in novel divinities (daimonia), and that Xenophon defends him by presenting his daimonion as ordinary divination. John responds from cognitive science, describing a continuum of felt presence experiences, and warns against two opposite biases: treating every such entity as demonic, or trusting every one as a benevolent guide. Drawing on his own ongoing dialogues with Hermes, he argues that discernment of spirits is a learnable skill, more like a martial art than a set of propositions. The discussion then turns to Aristophanes' The Clouds, where Socrates is satirised hanging in a basket among divinities of the air, and on to breath, Tai Chi, and enacted metaphor. From suspension they arrive at betweenness: Diotima's description of Eros as a daimon, the philosopher as metaxu, and finite transcendence, before closing on how the meaning crisis has left us without ways to discern spirits, setting up the next conversation on Apuleius. Charles Stang is Professor of Early Christian Thought at Harvard Divinity School and Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions at Harvard. In this episode, he examines Socrates' daimon through the witness of Xenophon and Aristophanes, and the ancient association of daimons with air and with the space between humans and gods. John Vervaeke is a cognitive scientist and philosopher whose work explores cognition, meaning, wisdom, and the meaning crisis. In this conversation, he brings cognitive science, embodied practice, and his ongoing dialogues with Hermes to bear on the daimon, felt presence, and the discernment of spirits. Study the daimon with Charles: Daemons in Divinity on The Lectern Charles Stang's Web Memorabilia - Xenophon The Clouds - Aristophanes Symposium - Plato Apology - Plato Presence - Ben Alderson-Day Being and the Between - William Desmond 00:00 Cold open: entity encounters 01:50 Welcome back, Charles Stang 03:00 Recap: Plato's Socrates daimon 04:30 Xenophon's Memorabilia 05:20 The indictment: theoi vs. daimonia 08:10 Divination and divine signs 09:40 Xenophon's two novelties 11:20 Psychology of felt presence 16:40 Beyond binary ontology 19:50 Impiety and corrupting youth 21:20 Hermes and bipolar bias 28:50 Psychedelic entity encounters 31:00 Discernment as martial art 35:00 Pivot to The Clouds 38:50 Socrates in a basket 42:00 Spiritual alchemy and elements 44:00 Cerebellum and enacted metaphor 48:00 Why air? Breath as bridge 53:20 Suspending judgment and Tai Chi 55:40 Betweenness and Diotima's Eros 57:30 Metaxu and finite transcendence 59:02 "We are not transcendent purely. That is to be a god. We are not merely finite. That is to be an animal." 01:00:50 Meaning crisis, lost discernment 01:03:50 William Desmond and the metaxu 01:06:50 Closing thanks The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

How do you make deep philosophical and transformative work accessible to more people without sacrificing the precision, rigor, and depth that make it meaningful in the first place? John Vervaeke, with Ethan Hsieh and Taylor Barratt, discusses recurring feedback that his work is meaningful but hard to share, and the ethical tension between precision and epistemic responsibility on one side and making ideas broadly shareable on the other. They describe practical steps already taken or planned: clearer scaffolding in Lectern courses, additional instructors, a teaching-assistance program, adapting content into books, new pathways through the large YouTube catalog, and shorter thematic overview videos. They also introduce a 12-module Studio app built around a 5–15 minute daily practice habit, with an AI "coach" designed with ethical constraints, to translate key ideas (the four Ps, relevance realization, DIME) into accessible practice. Finally, they outline a tiered practice ecosystem of intensives, retreats, and the Reframe Festival (June 3–6, 2027, Colorado), plus a six-week Awaken to Meaning practice course, and invite good-faith audience feedback. Together, they explore: the challenge of making John Vervaeke's philosophical and scientific work more accessible without sacrificing rigor why accessibility involves more than simply making information easier to understand the tension between precision, epistemic responsibility, and reaching a broader audience why accessibility also includes financial, educational, relational, and structural dimensions how The Lectern can create different entry points for people with different levels of experience the role of the Studio app in helping people build a habit of practice how group practice, watch parties, and supportive relationships make philosophical practice more sustainable how the Four Ps of Knowing, relevance realization, and the DIME framework are introduced through a more accessible structure why a structured approach can help people who struggle with executive functioning the different levels of engagement offered through courses, practice groups, retreats, intensives, and festivals how practice communities can function like a dojo for developing skills 00:00 Why Accessibility Matters 00:30 Welcome and Video Purpose 02:00 Accuracy vs Accessibility Tension 07:00 Taylor on Vulnerability and Reach 10:00 Practice and Relationship Impacts 13:26 "How do we make it accessible such that people who don't have to work an extra job just to be able to pay for a course?" 14:30 Progressive Teaching and Prereqs 20:00 Multiple Mediums and Channel Overload 24:00 New Access Pathways and Shorter Videos 26:00 Introducing the Practice App 28:30 App Modules and Daily Habit Design 32:00 AI Coach Feature and Ethics 34:30 Ethan on Pedagogy and Core Ideas 36:30 Habit Gap After Insight 38:00 App as Training Wheels 39:30 ADHD Friendly Structure 42:00 Tiered Practice Pathways 44:30 Reframe Festival Details 47:00 Retreats Between Intensives 49:30 Hardcore Training Track 54:00 Ecosystem Not Closed 56:30 Feedback and Next Steps 58:00 Six Week Practice Gateway 01:01:30 Final Encouragement and Thanks Resources Find Clarity and Connection in a Noisy World App Teaching Assistance Program (TAP) Reframe Festival from Awaken to Meaning Relational Ecology Program (REP) on Awaken to Meaning Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern Support the Lectern and join a growing community of wisdom seekers on Patreon Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

What if the problem isn't that religions disagree, but that we invented the idea that you can only belong to one? In this Silk Road Seminar, John Vervaeke sits down with theologian John J. Thatamanil, author of Circling the Elephant: A Comparative Theology of Religious Diversity. Thatamanil traces his path from the ancient Mar Thoma Christian tradition of South India to comparative theology, and makes the case that our modern idea of "religion" is a recent invention, born alongside the secular, entangled with colonialism and racialization, and built to sort people into single, sealed boxes. Together, they explore: Why religion is not a natural kind, and why the village atheist and the fundamentalist mirror each other Tillich, participation, and God as the ground of being rather than a being Religion as comprehensive qualitative orientation: interpretive schemes and therapeutic regimes that "true" our desires Semiotic symbiosis, process perennialism, and horizontal vs. vertical non-dualism Pilgrims, not tourists: how deep practice across traditions renews faith Why capitalism functions as a religion, and where hope lives now John J. Thatamanil is Professor of Theology and World Religions at Union Theological Seminary in New York. His work in comparative theology focuses on Hindu and Buddhist non-dualism and the possibility of a Christian non-dualism. He is the author of Circling the Elephant and The Immanent Divine. Books mentioned: Circling the Elephant (John J. Thatamanil), In Praise of Mixed Religion (Victoria S. Harrison), Without Buddha I Could Not Be a Christian (Paul Knitter), The Invention of Religion in Japan (Jason Ānanda Josephson). 00:00 Welcome to the Silk Road Seminar 01:41 From Mar Thoma Christianity to comparative theology 07:37 Religion and its "Siamese twin," the secular 12:36 Why religion isn't a natural kind 22:24 The village atheist and facile theism 29:07 Tillich, participation, and the ground of being 36:11 Religion as comprehensive qualitative orientation 43:08 Interpretive schemes and therapeutic regimes 47:09 Jesus, the Buddha, and truth as a person 48:37 Dialogos and semiotic symbiosis 56:55 "Multiplicity is life, and singularity is almost always death." 01:00:51 Perennialism vs. process perennialism 01:08:32 Love, knowledge, and the post-truth condition 01:12:40 Q&A: Traditionalism, perennialism, and Eliade 01:19:27 Horizontal and vertical non-dualism 01:25:13 Narrative archetypes and "Protestant Buddhism" 01:32:19 Is capitalism a religion? 01:38:01 What gives you hope? The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

Could the "divine double" be a hidden guide within us, and what happens when we begin to recognize it? Harvard Divinity School professor Charles Stang, author of Our Divine Double, joins Ethan to introduce his Lectern course Daemons in Divinity and the ancient Greek idea of the daimon. Stang traces Socrates' daimonion, the guiding sign that shaped his life, through Plato and later thinkers who saw daimons as intermediaries or as a person's highest faculty, which makes us "gods in waiting." He contrasts loose "higher self" talk with disciplined discernment, and shares uncanny reading experiences as encounters with a divine double. Enroll in Daemons in Divinity: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/courses/daemons-in-divinity Together, they explore: the daimon and Socrates' inner sign the divine double as counterpart, alter ego or twin discernment and the risk of self-deception daimons as bodies of air partnership, not possession the modern loss of the daimonic reading as a transformative encounter across time from "Flatland" to a vertical, multidimensional reality Timestamps 00:00 Reading as Transformation 01:30 Welcome and Guest Intro 04:00 Socrates and the Daimonion 06:00 Divine Double Framework 09:00 Course Purpose and Modern Relevance 11:00 Roleplay Skeptic Questions 17:00 Discernment and Self Deception 27:30 Extraordinary Encounters Explained 31:00 What Is a Daimon 35:00 Ambiguity and Axis Shift 37:30 Wisdom Beyond Outcomes 39:00 Socrates and the Inner Sign 42:00 Daimons as Bodies of Air 43:00 Seeing Air Through Apuleius 45:30 Theater as Spirit Vessel 50:00 Partnership Not Possession 52:00 Modern Loss of the Daimonic 56:00 Higher Self vs Deep Practice 59:00 Vertical Self and Jung 01:03:00 Puppy Crisis and Jesus 01:06:30 Uncanny Reading and Flatland to Spaceland 01:10:30 Daimon and God 01:13:00 Course Takeaways and Farewell Explore courses from The Lectern: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support the Lectern on Patreon: patreon.com/johnvervaeke Follow John Vervaeke: Website | X | YouTube Thank you for listening!

What if religion was never really about belief, but about how we make meaning? Trust in institutions like religion, law, science, and journalism is collapsing, yet some of the most demanding traditions, like Eastern Orthodoxy and the traditional Latin Mass, are growing as people seek ritual, discipline, and transformation. In this talk, John Vervaeke argues it is increasingly difficult to study human cognition without studying religion, pointing to the co-emergence of religion and human cognition, the importance of imaginal cognition, altered states and mystical experience, and non-propositional knowing in 4E cognitive science. He critiques first-generation cognitive science of religion for treating religions as irrational, belief-based "failed science" and for ignoring religious studies. Drawing on ethnography and genealogy, he argues that religions are porous, syncretistic ecologies of practice, that the "religion" construct is historically contingent, and that a process theory should ask how people become religious, including through credibility-enhancing displays. In this talk, John explores: why religion continues to matter in a modern world that often considers itself increasingly secular how cognitive science has shaped, and sometimes limited, our understanding of religion the rise of the "imaginal" and its role in human cognition and religious experience why religion cannot be reduced to belief or explained simply as a cognitive byproduct how science and religion became divided through modern dichotomies why cognitive science needs to engage with insights from religious studies how religions are porous, interconnected, and shaped through historical exchange how Equus illustrates the relationship between sacred meaning and human experience why religion is better understood as an ecology of practices rather than a system of beliefs how credibility-enhancing displays (CREDs) shape participation in traditions how institutional trust, religious revival, and the contemporary "trust apocalypse" are connected how fluency and participation can open pathways toward mystical experience 00:00 Welcome To The Lectern 01:00 Religious Revival Paradox 02:00 Why Cognition Needs Religion 03:30 The Rise Of The Imaginal 06:00 Spiritual Not Religious 07:15 Early CogSci Religion Assumptions 09:45 Adaptation Vs Byproduct Debate 11:30 NOMA And Modern Dichotomies 15:00 Postmodern Critique Of Binaries 18:30 Why Consult Religious Studies 20:15 Religions Are Porous Not Pure 21:45 The Origin Of God Genealogy 27:00 Equus And Sacred Meaning 28:45 Equus In The Dark 30:30 Syncretism And Capitalism 31:30 Religion As Practice Ecology 32:45 CRED And Becoming Rational 35:45 Meaning Sacred And Apprenticeship 37:30 Process Theory Of Religion 41:00 Genealogy And Imperial Construct 44:00 Q&A Rejecting The Sacred 46:30 Institutions Trust And Revival 50:00 Beauty Fluency Mysticism — Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support the Lectern and join a growing community of wisdom seekers https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon — Thank you for listening! What if religion was never really about belief, but about how we make meaning? Trust in institutions like religion, law, science, and journalism is collapsing, yet some of the most demanding traditions, like Eastern Orthodoxy and the traditional Latin Mass, are growing as people seek ritual, discipline, and transformation. In this talk, John Vervaeke argues it is increasingly difficult to study human cognition without studying religion, pointing to the co-emergence of religion and human cognition, the importance of imaginal cognition, altered states and mystical experience, and non-propositional knowing in 4E cognitive science. He critiques first-generation cognitive science of religion for treating religions as irrational, belief-based "failed science" and for ignoring religious studies. Drawing on ethnography and genealogy, he argues that religions are porous, syncretistic ecologies of practice, that the "religion" construct is historically contingent, and that a process theory should ask how people become religious, including through credibility-enhancing displays. In this talk, John explores: why religion continues to matter in a modern world that often considers itself increasingly secular how cognitive science has shaped, and sometimes limited, our understanding of religion the rise of the "imaginal" and its role in human cognition and religious experience why religion cannot be reduced to belief or explained simply as a cognitive byproduct how science and religion became divided through modern dichotomies why cognitive science needs to engage with insights from religious studies how religions are porous, interconnected, and shaped through historical exchange how Equus illustrates the relationship between sacred meaning and human experience why religion is better understood as an ecology of practices rather than a system of beliefs how credibility-enhancing displays (CREDs) shape participation in traditions how institutional trust, religious revival, and the contemporary "trust apocalypse" are connected how fluency and participation can open pathways toward mystical experience 00:00 Welcome To The Lectern 01:00 Religious Revival Paradox 02:00 Why Cognition Needs Religion 03:30 The Rise Of The Imaginal 06:00 Spiritual Not Religious 07:15 Early CogSci Religion Assumptions 09:45 Adaptation Vs Byproduct Debate 11:30 NOMA And Modern Dichotomies 15:00 Postmodern Critique Of Binaries 18:30 Why Consult Religious Studies 20:15 Religions Are Porous Not Pure 21:45 The Origin Of God Genealogy 27:00 Equus And Sacred Meaning 28:45 Equus In The Dark 30:30 Syncretism And Capitalism 31:30 Religion As Practice Ecology 32:45 CRED And Becoming Rational 35:45 Meaning Sacred And Apprenticeship 37:30 Process Theory Of Religion 41:00 Genealogy And Imperial Construct 44:00 Q&A Rejecting The Sacred 46:30 Institutions Trust And Revival 50:00 Beauty Fluency Mysticism — Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support the Lectern and join a growing community of wisdom seekers https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon — Thank you for listening!

Can we find freedom in a world of endless choice—or is deeper liberation found in the people we refuse to leave? In the first of a three-part Lectern Dialogues series, John Vervaeke is joined by Elizabeth Oldfield and her husband, Christopher Oldfield, for a conversation on intentional communal living as a spiritual practice within a Christian orientation. Elizabeth and Christopher share life with their children and three other adults in a small London home shaped by a shared rule of life: collective prayer, hospitality, study, play, administration, and the daily work of formation. They distinguish committed community from casual cohabitation, exploring how proximity, conflict, repair, and shared rhythms can cultivate deeper friendship and fellowship. The conversation connects intentional community with John's work on the philosophical Silk Road, renewing the senses, dialogical selfhood, attachment, participation, and the critique of modern individualism. It also takes seriously the risks of self-deception and toxic religion, asking what discernment and faithful communal maturation require. Guests Christopher Oldfield is a philosopher affiliated with the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion in Cambridge. His work explores wisdom, metaphysics, personhood, participation, and the sacred. Elizabeth Oldfield writes and speaks on spirituality, community, and relational life, examining how shared practices can restore connection with one another and with God. Resources Christopher Oldfield: https://www.chrisoldfieldphilosophy.com/ Elizabeth Oldfield on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-oldfield-5a5b6216/ Plato, The Seventh Letter: http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/seventh_letter.html A Hidden Life: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5827916/ The Thin Red Line: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120863/ Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support The Lectern on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Follow John Vervaeke: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Chapters 00:00 Welcome to The Lectern 02:00 Elizabeth on friendship 04:30 Christopher's introduction 08:00 Why intentional community 09:30 Commitment and covenant 12:30 Rhythms of a rule of life 16:30 Plato and collective spirit 21:30 Creed, "we," and "I" 27:00 Dialogical self and science 31:30 Relearning wisdom today 39:00 Intimacy and modern culture 46:30 Rethinking eros 48:3030 Hearth and fellowship 49:00 Covenant friendship 49:30 Life inside community 52:30 Religion as holy listening 54:00 Religion as care and rebinding 56:30 Empire and invented religion 59:00 Shared scripture and shared life 01:01:00 Is religion accessible? 01:03:00 Practice and participation 01:05:00 Communal maturation 01:08:30 Rupture, repair, and intimacy 01:13:00 "We too" identity in Ephesians 01:17:30 Renewing the senses 01:24:30 Attachment and attunement 01:27:30 Discernment and toxic religion 01:30:00 Friendship as the path

What if God isn't a finished substance standing outside the world, but a living process we participate in? In this Silk Road Seminar, John Vervaeke is joined by process philosophers Andrew M. Davis and Matt Segall. John opens with the core moves of Seeing God Again for the First Time and the Philosophical Silk Road: dissolving modernity's dichotomies, renewing our sense of the sacred, and moving between traditions as a pilgrim rather than a tourist. From there, the three bring Whitehead's process thought into dialogue with Neoplatonism, Daoism, and Buddhism. Together, they explore: Process perennialism vs. propositional perennialism Primordiality, ultimacy, and the consequent nature of God Why God is not an individualized substance, and what that means for theism and atheism Hartshorne's dipolar theism and a dynamic view of perfection Anatheism, non-duality, and the inexhaustible sacred Faith as disposition rather than propositional assent, and the criteria for judging deeper framings of reality Andrew M. Davis leads research and conference programming at the Center for Process Studies. He is the author of Mind, Value, and Cosmos: On the Relational Nature of Ultimacy and the forthcoming Whitehead's Universe: A Prismatic Introduction (Orbis Books). Matt Segall is a professor at the California Institute of Integral Studies, where he teaches process philosophy and German idealism, approaching philosophy as a transformative practice. Center for Process Studies | Andrew M. Davis | Matt Segall (Footnotes2Plato) 00:00 Welcome to the Silk Road Seminar 01:44 Matt Segall and Andrew Davis introduce themselves 05:00 Seeing God Again for the First Time 11:09 The Philosophical Silk Road as pilgrimage 15:50 Cobb, Whitehead, and Buddhist-Christian dialogue 17:59 Process perennialism 24:19 Primordiality, ultimacy, and Zen Neoplatonism 27:53 The consequent nature of God 39:45 God is not an individualized substance 51:16 Hartshorne and dipolar theism 01:00:44 Rethinking omniscience and omnipotence 01:08:27 Anatheism: returning to God after God 01:12:06 The sacred obligation to pilgrimage 01:18:50 Propositional vs. dispositional faith 01:25:20 "It's more important that a proposition be interesting than that it be true." 01:31:42 Q&A: Fidelity to tradition and openness to others 01:42:36 How do we judge one framing of reality as deeper? 01:49:55 Collective individuation 02:02:31 Closing words The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

What if the very thing we fear most—nonbeing—is also what gives life its deepest meaning? John Vervaeke welcomes philosopher Corey Anton to discuss his book, How Nonbeing Haunts Being: On Possibilities, Morality, and Death Acceptance. They explore how absence, limitation, possibility, mortality, and death are not merely negations of life, but central to how meaning, identity, and moral responsibility emerge. Corey situates the book as the third in a trilogy and describes a naturalist yet spiritually open orientation: one that rejects an afterlife while affirming reverence for the mystery of existence and a morality grounded in this life. John and Corey consider embodiment, perception, grief, ego death, psychedelics, dignity in dying, AI and the meaning crisis, and the challenge of evil. Drawing on Sartre, Heidegger, Merleau-Ponty, Nishitani, Terence Deacon, Epicurus, and Douglas Harding's Headless Way, this conversation asks how accepting mortality might deepen wisdom, enrich ordinary life, and open us to a more participatory relationship with reality. Resources How Nonbeing Haunts Being: On Possibilities, Morality, and Death Acceptance by Corey Anton: https://www.amazon.com/Non-being-Haunts-Being-Possibilities-Communication-ebook/dp/B08MDL3LX7/ Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support The Lectern on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Follow John Vervaeke: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ X: https://x.com/DrJohnVervaeke YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Chapters 00:00 Welcome and book praise 00:41 Nonbeing East and West 04:54 Spirituality without an afterlife 06:58 Thirst and everyday absence 09:15 Recovering Catholic roots 12:20 Reverence versus fire insurance 15:12 The Headless Way and openness 22:10 Embodiment makes relations real 24:14 No view from nowhere 27:24 Grief and mortality acceptance 31:54 Sartre meets Harding 34:45 Merleau-Ponty and psychedelics 37:55 A community of the dying 38:35 Epicurus on the fear of death 40:56 Dignity and dying 42:47 The right to die 46:02 Pain and despair 53:23 The sacred as inexhaustible 55:36 AI and the meaning crisis 59:43 How meaning works 01:01:16 Resonance over happiness 01:09:59 Mystery, love, and evil 01:14:52 The bodhisattva response 01:17:02 Closing reflections

What if nihilism is not the end of meaning, but an opening into a deeper way of seeing? John Vervaeke is joined by Ethan Hsieh to introduce Notes on No-Thing, a course on the Kyoto School of Philosophy and its response to nihilism, nothingness, and the advent of the sacred. They explore why modern people often oscillate between nihilism and narcissism, why meaning must be shareable, and how the Kyoto School offers a different way through the meaning crisis. Rather than treating nothingness as a wound to be covered over with distraction, John considers it as an aperture—a way of seeing through nihilism toward a renewed encounter with reality, religion, sacredness, and transformation. The conversation draws on Nishida, Nishitani, and Tanabe alongside Zen, Neoplatonism, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky, Heidegger, Sartre, grief, shame, the death of God, and post-Christian nihilism. It asks what a post-nihilistic understanding of the sacred might make possible. Notes on No-Thing runs September 14–November 9, with no class on October 26. Learn more and register: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/courses/notes-on-no-thing Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support The Lectern on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Connect with John Vervaeke: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Chapters 00:00 Nothingness as an opening 00:40 Welcome to The Lectern 01:20 Why this course matters 03:10 The Kyoto School and nihilism 07:10 Beyond nihilism and the sacred 11:10 The everyday voice of nihilism 12:30 Nihilism and clinical depression 17:20 The clenched fist analogy 20:50 Forms of nihilism 25:00 Beyond familiar Western religious frameworks 26:00 From hole to aperture 27:00 Grief, loss, and reality 29:10 Narcissism as a response to nihilism 32:40 Why meaning must be shareable 35:10 Nishitani and self-overcoming 37:20 Nihilism and narcissism 38:30 The Kyoto School as a dialogical partner 45:20 Nietzsche, Christianity, and modernity 49:10 Guilt, shame, and cultural frameworks 52:30 Grief over the death of God 58:00 The advent of the sacred 60:20 What students can expect 61:20 Transformation and no-thingness 64:40 Meaning, flourishing, and resilience 66:40 Mourning, grief, and love 68:40 Course registration and closing

Why are we losing our taste for what is real—and what practices can help us recover it? John Vervaeke is joined by Guy Sengstock and Kyle Koch for a conversation on connection as something constitutive of who we are: our relationship to nature, one another, story, personhood, and the sacred. Together, they explore the practices behind the Reconnecting to the Real retreat in Whistler, British Columbia. Kyle shares how nature connection, tracking, bird language, and embodied practice can transform how we perceive and participate in the world. Guy brings the relational depth of Circling, considering how conversation can become a practice of presence, listening, and genuine contact. John situates these practices within his work on the meaning crisis, Socratic dialogue, wisdom, and the renewal of the senses. The conversation moves from fire, forest, and shared meals to deeper questions of flourishing, AI and virtual mediation, touch and taste, and how we can develop a more participatory relationship with reality. Learn more about the Reconnecting to the Real retreat: https://lnkd.in/erVwif6A Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support The Lectern on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Connect with John Vervaeke: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Chapters 00:00 Welcome to The Lectern 00:40 Reconnecting to the Real 01:20 Nature connection and meaning 04:20 Discovering Circling 07:20 Tending the earth and togetherness 13:20 Socrates, meaning, and dialogue 18:20 Retreat as practice and participation 24:20 Facilitating rather than lecturing 30:40 The senses reaching toward the world 36:00 Why connection restores energy and life 41:40 Touch, contact, and the real 43:20 Taste and spiritual perception 46:00 The skill that unlocks a life 48:00 Shared meals and tasting together 51:20 Renewing the senses 52:20 Flourishing and the real 54:30 Closing reflections

Is civilization making us smarter while disconnecting us from what matters most? In this episode, John Vervaeke speaks with Kyle Koch, a deep nature connection practitioner and new father living in an intentional community in northern British Columbia, about applying Vervaeke's work to raise children with belonging and connectedness. Together they explore cognition as a dynamical developmental process, how culture increasingly "raises" children through screens, and how capitalism functions as a dominant religion shaping salience and meaning. Drawing on Iain McGilchrist's work and 4E cognitive science, they discuss left-hemisphere dominance, relevance realization, extended families and credible role models, narrative as "keeping track of tracking," and the need for a meta-narrative beyond a chaos of stories. The conversation also examines kinship and Indigenous worldviews, personhood as promise-making, the "spirit of place," pilgrimage as transformative theoria, and a civium model that combines Dunbar-scale communities with a more virtuous virtual world—including retreats like Reconnecting with the Real. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to the Lectern 02:00 – Fatherhood and meaning 05:00 – Questions on development 06:30 – Cognition as dynamic 07:30 – Culture raises kids 09:00 – Capitalism as religion 11:00 – Alloparenting and nature 13:00 – Becoming self and person 17:30 – Trust and role models 22:00 – Narratives and consumption 26:00 – Spirit of place 31:30 – Promises and personhood 33:30 – Narrative practice tracking 39:30 – Meta-narrative challenge 43:00 – Why we cannot return 43:30 – The synergy of civilization 44:30 – Civium at Dunbar scale 46:30 – Making the virtual sacred 49:30 – Can the virtual be virtuous? 51:00 – Keeping civilization's gifts 57:30 – Hospicing modernity and cultural transition 1:00:00 – Capitalism and demographic collapse 1:02:30 – Pilgrimage and theoria 1:09:00 – Apprenticeship to sages 1:11:30 – Eldership and the sage symphony About Kyle Koch Kyle Koch is a nature connection expert who bridges philosophical concepts and embodied reality through tracking, bird language, and nature-based core routines. Coming from a background in Evolve Move Play, he helps people reclaim an innate sense of belonging within the natural world. Learn more: https://www.ecologyofconnection.com Email: [email protected] Resources The Matter With Things: https://channelmcgilchrist.com/the-matter-with-things Evolve Move Play: https://www.evolvemoveplay.com/ Follow John Vervaeke Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ X: https://x.com/DrJohnVervaeke YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Thank you for listening!

What does it mean to "see God again" after modernity has taught us to look for the sacred in all the wrong ways? In this special Lectern conversation, John Vervaeke is joined by Guy Sengstock for a deep reflection on John's three-part course trilogy, Seeing God Again for the First Time. John invited Guy to watch the courses and respond not only to their arguments, but to the way the courses enact a philosophical, phenomenological, and spiritual exercise. Guy begins from his own background as co-founder of Circling, describing how relational practice opened a mystery that psychological language could not fully hold, eventually leading him into Heidegger, phenomenology, and philosophy as contemplation. From there, he draws out the personal and pedagogical arc of John's work: teaching as encounter, as vulnerability, and as a way of revealing what students are already confronted with. John describes the course as an attempt to integrate rigorous argument, phenomenological exploration, and spiritual exercise in the spirit of Socrates, Plotinus, and Pierre Hadot. Rather than define religion or God and then argue for or against them, John sets out to deconstruct the modern grammar that blocks our ability to encounter sacredness at all: the fact/value, is/ought, subjective/objective, theory/data, and meaning/measurement dichotomies. The conversation moves through Paul Tillich, William Desmond, Wittgenstein, Heidegger, Catherine Pickstock, Janet Soskice, D.C. Schindler, and 4E cognitive science, showing how analytic philosophy, continental phenomenology, and cognitive science converge in undermining modernity's inherited picture. Guy and John explore sacredness as ultimately real, ultimately orienting, ultimately transformative, and ultimately resonant; naming as relational participation rather than possession; wonder as calling self and world into question; and aletheia as truth that discloses beauty, goodness, and intelligibility. The conversation closes with the contemporary stakes of this recovery: AI, consciousness, personhood, the meaning crisis, and the alignment problem. John argues that we can no longer treat philosophy and sacredness as academic luxuries when our technologies are reshaping cognition, identity, and agency. If we are creating new kinds of intelligence, the question is not merely how to bind them to us, but how to orient them - and ourselves - toward truth, goodness, beauty, intelligibility, and the sacred. Guy Sengstock is a co-founder of Circling and a longtime teacher of relational, dialogical, and contemplative practice. His work bridges phenomenology, philosophy, facilitation, and the lived mystery of interpersonal encounter. Explore courses and other offerings from The Lectern: https://lectern.teachable.com About The Lectern The Lectern is dedicated to wisdom cultivation through dialogue, inquiry, and transformative practices. Through courses, live events, and community conversations, we seek not merely to discuss ideas, but to explore how they can shape the way we live. 00:00 Welcome to The Lectern 01:00 Why Guy is reflecting on Seeing God Again 02:00 Guy introduces his background in Circling and philosophy 04:00 Circling, mystery, and the limits of psychological language 06:00 Heidegger, Being and Time, and philosophy as contemplation 09:00 John's Socratic and Plotinian aspirations 10:30 Argument, phenomenology, and spiritual exercise 12:00 Seeing God Again, pilgrimage, and the Philosophical Silk Road 13:00 John the person, scientist, philosopher, and teacher 15:00 Teaching as existential confrontation 17:00 The manner of teaching as part of the teaching 18:00 Modernity, the meaning crisis, and sacredness 20:00 When teaching became encounter 21:00 Paul Tillich, cognitive science, and teaching virtue 23:00 William Desmond and philosophy as spiritual exercise 25:00 Teaching toward a philosophical-spiritual end 26:00 Involving the whole self without becoming self-involved 29:00 Revealing what students are already confronted with 31:00 Teaching, social phobia, and vulnerability 33:00 The sacred as deep teaching 35:00 Idealization, temptation, and participation 38:00 Naming God and the loss of relational naming 41:00 The four dichotomies of modernity 42:00 Out-rigoring the rigor 44:00 Deconstructing the grammar that blocks sacredness 45:00 Mystical traditions as phenomenological exemplars 47:00 Modernity's vertical and horizontal dichotomies 49:00 Recovering sight beyond modernity's glasses 50:00 Sacredness as ultimately real, orienting, transformative, and resonant 52:00 Why John uses atheist scholarship before apologetics 53:00 Counter-modern thought and the limits of postmodernism 55:00 Why these dichotomies matter beyond academia 57:00 Everything Everywhere All at Once, nihilism, and value 01:01:00 Philosophy outside the ivory tower 01:02:00 Postmodernity and living in the ruins 01:04:00 Recovery and asking "Where are we?" 01:05:00 Wittgenstein, Heidegger, and recovering meaning 01:07:00 Modernity as icon rather than representation 01:08:00 Truth, goodness, beauty, and intelligibility 01:12:00 Wonder vs. curiosity 01:15:00 Aletheia, beauty, liberation, and onto-normativity 01:18:00 Seeing God Again as pilgrimage 01:19:00 Theoria as theory, contemplation, and pilgrimage 01:21:00 AI, analytic philosophy, and consciousness 01:24:00 Meaning, relevance, and the limits of computation 01:26:00 AI personhood and disembodied embodiment 01:30:00 Why philosophy matters for technologies shaping us 01:32:00 AI agents, personhood, and the coming ontological crisis 01:35:00 The meaning crisis and the loss of sacred orientation 01:37:00 Personhood, ontology, and responsibility 01:39:00 The alignment problem and binding intelligence to the sacred 01:40:00 Why the course must be taken as a course 01:41:00 Teacher assistance, Socratic process, and future retreats 01:42:00 Socratic Salon and participatory practice 01:43:00 Closing reflections on retreat and relationship Thank you for listening!

What is applied metatheory - and why might it matter for ordinary people trying to make sense of reality, meaning, spirituality, and complexity? In this live Q&A from The Lectern, Ethan Hsieh speaks with Brendan Graham Dempsey about metatheory, meaning-making, complexity, and the spiritual task of learning to feel at home in the universe. Brendan introduces his work as Director of Research at the Institute of Applied Metatheory and Director at Sky Meadow Institute, where he explores developmental models, metamodern thought, complexity science, worldview, value, and the sacred. The conversation begins by demystifying "meta" itself: not as abstract ivory-tower speculation, but as the human effort to build better maps of reality from an overwhelming abundance of knowledge. Ethan and Brendan examine how we are always philosophizing - asking what is true, who to trust, what matters, and how different domains of meaning relate to each other. They discuss the pitfalls of complexity, including conspiracy thinking, premature certainty, and the difficulty of staying with learning when one does not yet understand. The conversation moves through AI, mentorship, spiritual development, metaphor, phenomenology, and the challenge of describing transformative experience without over-reifying inherited symbols. Brendan frames metatheory as a way of relating different "data" of human experience - from mystical encounter to neuroscience to integral theory - without collapsing them into chaos or dogma. The episode closes with a question about perennialism, where Brendan makes a case for dynamic spirituality, interpretive humility, and pluralism not as a failure to answer, but perhaps as part of the answer itself. Brendan Graham Dempsey is Director of Research at the Institute of Applied Metatheory and Director at Sky Meadow Institute in Vermont. He is the host of the Metamodern Meaning podcast and author of the multi-volume series The Evolution of Meaning. His upcoming Lectern course, Matters Over Time, explores meaning, complexity, development, and the sacred. 00:00 Welcome and live Q&A format 01:30 Introducing Brendan Graham Dempsey 01:50 Institute of Applied Metatheory, Sky Meadow Institute, and Metamodern Meaning 02:50 The Evolution of Meaning and Matters Over Time 03:30 Why "applied metatheory" can sound intimidating 04:20 What is applied metatheory? 05:00 Big-picture thinking across human history 06:00 The impossibility of "reading everything" today 07:00 Making sense of reality from specialized knowledge 07:40 Metatheory as a way to feel at home in the universe 09:30 Why useful maps matter 09:50 We are always philosophizing 11:30 Meaning as reality continually disclosing itself 12:10 Development, wisdom, and the expanding horizon of thought 13:00 Epistemology, truth, and learning to hold complexity 14:50 Demystifying "meta" 15:20 Pitfalls in approaching complexity 16:00 Conspiracy theories and seeking complexity in the wrong places 17:40 AI, wisdom, and the demands of complex conversations 18:30 Learning, discomfort, mentors, and staying on the path 20:00 Rabbit holes vs. deeper engagement with reality 27:00 Complexity, integrity, and discernment 35:00 Metatheory, spirituality, and meaning-making frameworks 45:00 How symbols and metaphors point beyond themselves 55:00 Spiritual experience, interpretation, and inherited maps 01:06:40 The finger pointing at the moon 01:07:00 Bird watching as spiritual exercise 01:08:00 "Things happen. That was something." 01:08:50 Getting closer to lived experience 01:09:30 Phenomenology, Layman Pascal, and expanding spiritual vocabulary 01:10:30 The divine as doorway into experience 01:11:00 Mapping spiritual data without collapsing into chaos 01:12:10 Would Brendan consider himself a perennialist? 01:13:20 Dynamic spirituality, emergence, novelty, and evolution 01:15:00 Naturalizing perennial claims and studying causal dynamics 01:17:20 Near-death experience and interpretive humility 01:19:00 Ontological claims as proposals, not closures 01:20:00 Integrity, skepticism, and not being sold a worldview 01:22:40 Pluralism as part of the answer 01:24:50 Brendan's course Matters Over Time 01:25:20 Closing thanks Explore Brendan's course and other offerings: https://lectern.teachable.com About The Lectern The Lectern is dedicated to wisdom cultivation through dialogue, inquiry, and transformative practices. Through courses, live events, and community conversations, we seek not merely to discuss ideas, but to explore how they can shape the way we live. Thank you for listening!