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How much of any given contaminant is actually taken up into human bodies? If we think about it, that is one of the single most important things to consider as an environmental consultant when reporting on a site's contamination status, yet it is not something that is very often done. Gunnar and James are yet again soaring with an industry eagle as they set out to get better at that very aspect of consulting. They chat with Dr Albert Juhasz, a Research Professor at the Future Industries Institute, internationally recognised for cross-disciplinary research on contaminant bioavailability and human health exposure. He has led development of one of the world’s largest contaminant bioavailability databases and advanced in vitro methods now applied at more than 100 contaminated sites across Australia.  His work has informed national and international exposure assessment policy, including the ASC NEPM and EnHealth Guidelines, and influenced regulatory guidance in the US, Canada and New Zealand. Albert is a senior journal editor, WHO consultant, contaminated-site auditor adviser, and a highly cited researcher (H-index 37).   The episode was recorded on 7 November 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The 2025 Year in Review (That Wasn’t Supposed to Happen) What started as a neat 15-minute intro quietly turned into a full end-of-year wrap-up. Classic Below the Surface. Gunnar and James get side-tracked almost immediately and eventually realise they have recorded the accidental 2025 BTS year in review. They cover listener feedback, behind-the-scenes stats, favourite episodes and a special mention for Sandgate. Personal obsessions make an appearance, with both sharing their top five podcasts of the year. Strong opinions, minimal overlap, and proof that podcast hosts mostly listen to other podcasts. On the technical front, Gunnar explains why the new AS 5370 feels like a step backwards, followed by a familiar rant on mandatory low-speed EV noise in Australia. EVs also feature heavily, including the claim that at least 11 new electric vehicles have hit Sydney roads thanks to a BTS episode. The EPA gets its own moment, with discussion of recent turmoil, announcements that feel straight out of Utopia, and Gunnar’s practical solution to the EPA’s budget problems. They finish with updates on Resource Recovery Orders, the new ASS RRO, and thoughts on a possible National EPA. Unplanned, slightly chaotic, and very on brand. A fitting way to wrap up 2025. Links: Gunnar's Top 5 Podcasts The Tennis Podcast Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps Andy Roddick's Served Podcast The Michael Shermer Show  Joe Rogan (his interview with Lance Armstrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEfSdPz1WtA) All the other podcasts Gunnar subscribes to in one handy link James' favourites  The Imperfects Podcast Two Broke Watch Snobs Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny | Australian Studies Institute The Rights to Ricky Sanchez - A podcast about the Philadelphia 76ers  The Art of Manliness This BTS Episode was recorded on 12 December 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

What it's really like to be regulated? Regulators, take note - this one’s for you. We are shining the light on the third corner of the Regulator – Consultant – Client relationship: the Client.  What’s it really like to be on the receiving end of regulation? Do operators of licensed facilities feel supported … or just scrutinised? Are those hefty licence fees worth it? And is there a fair playing field between the licensed and the “let’s-pretend-we-don’t-need-a-licence” crowd?  Of course, it’s not all about the regulators, consultants, you’ll want to listen too. What do clients actually expect from us? What builds trust, and what breaks it? To kick off this new series, Gunnar and James sit down with Anthony Alpen, Founder and CEO of Tank Management Australia (TMA). As the head of an IBC (Intermediate Bulk Container) reconditioning company, working under a strict EPL, Anthony knows first-hand what it means to navigate the regulatory maze. Sure, it sounds a bit dry on paper, but, as always, Gunnar and James find the sweet spot between serious insights and a few good laughs. It’s smart, it’s honest, and it’s the kind of chat that’ll make both regulators and consultants think twice (in a good way).  The episode was recorded on 10 October 2025. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The NSW Health PFAS Advice includes quite some statements: “The health effects of PFAS appear to be small.” “… there was definite evidence of increased psychological distress in … exposed communities, evidence for other adverse health outcomes from this study was limited.” “Interventions that reduce blood PFAS are of uncertain benefit and may cause harm.”These comments seem at odds with much of the mainstream media's presentation around PFAS. Or even the recently drastically reduced drinking water guidelines or Version 3 of the National Environmental Management Plan (NEMP) for PFAS. On top of that, the statements are unusually direct for a government public health communication, which made us curious to understand how NSW Health had arrived at these conclusions. To find out, Gunnar and James reached out to NSW Health. Their media team was quick to respond and connected them with two members of the expert advisory panel: Dr Claire Hooker – Associate Professor, Health Humanities and Arts and Health, Sydney Health EthicsProf Martyn Kirk – National Centre for Epidemiology and Population Health, Australian National UniversitySpeaking with these distinguished researchers was a privilege. Despite being a little star-struck, Gunnar and James kept their cool and recorded one of their most insightful conversations to date. This episode was recorded on 30 September 2025 and it is dense with evidence, reasoning, and nuance - it’s well worth your full attention. Southern Cross University Acid Sulfate Soil Course Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Gunnar (without James this time) gives it a go to get to the bottom of the very basics of what we need to think of around stormwater on a site. There are few better suited to talk about the subject than our guest Mircea Stancu, the founder of Cleanstormwater.  Mircea is a civil engineer, software engineer and, you guessed it, an expert in anything related to stormwater. He is also quite a flamboyant guest and he and Gunnar managed to put together a show case of the very best of (what Gunnar at least calls) attractive European accents.  The two of them briefly talk about a dispute between Mircea and Melbourne Water, played out publicly on LinkedIn. If you feel like a little bit of entertainment, grab your popcorn and have a look at these videos: https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7185803882801848320 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7209037421026369536 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7215890816471302146 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7213783068518596609 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7211555577947127808 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7261621640537481216 https://www.cleanstormwater.com.au/ https://au.linkedin.com/in/mircea-stancu-193048108 Southern Cross University Acid Sulfate Soil Course The episode was recorded on 5 June 2025.   Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

James K (James Karagiannis) has personally completed a stack of waste classifications. And in addition, he has reviewed somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200 reports written by other consultants for our clients. That gives him a rare, panoramic view of what great looks like … and what misses the mark. Gunnar and Hammond, James Hammond, sit down with him to unpack what he sees when reviewing these reports.  The original plan was to listen to James K. But with Gunnar’s well-known habit of let’s say, sharing his thoughts, and Hammond’s nerdy knowledge in resource recovery and compliance, there may have been a little more talking than listening at times. Still, we think you’ll enjoy the conversation, have a few laugh and maybe even pick up a few tips to sharpen your own waste classification skills. Enjoy! The episode was recorded on 11 September 2025.  Links mentioned in the episode: Electric Vehicles are allowed to use transit lanes in NSW  NSW Health Expert Advisory Panel on PFAS Our interview with NSW Health Panel members on the PFAS Health Advice Nightcrawler on Netflix Episode with Linda Apthorpe on asbestos in soils analysis Episode with Pierina Otness on how to sample for asbestos in soil on a site Episode with Ross McFarland about sampling and Decision Units Gunnar's method of re-running samples accountably Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Tony Chappel, the CEO of the NSW EPA, is our guest today, so we are definitely back with a bang after the summer holidays.  Gunnar and James are (surprisingly!) well-prepared and keep the conversation on track as they dive into Tony’s journey to leading the EPA, his early priorities, the role of politics in environmental regulation, and the importance of deep listening in leadership. They explore everything from the OCSE paper and the EPA's potential collaboration with industry bodies, to the tricky disconnect between waste and contaminated sites, the zero-tolerance stance on asbestos in waste, updates to the ASC NEPM, and the growing pressures on landfill capacity. And yes, Gunnar did try for a get-out-of-jail-free card from Tony… but no luck this time (nice try, though)! Three experts, one great conversation, and a rare look into the leadership and direction of the NSW EPA. This is definitely one episode you won’t want to miss. Links mentioned: NSW Health Expert Advisory Panel on PFAS Our Interview with NSW Health Panel Members about this advice (recorded a few weeks after this episode went live) Draft ASS Order and Exemption Recorded on 19 August 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Electric Vehicles are basically half price in Australia right now, thanks to some little-known government incentives. Gunnar and James decided it was the perfect time to talk… tax. Yes, tax. And you thought resource recovery was a boring subject, right? But before you judge, listen to this episodes. Gunnar and James have brought in the big guns: chartered accountant Paul Mills (paulybmills at gmail.com).  It really sounds like the beginning of a bad joke: Two engineers and an accountant meet for a podcast ...  Somehow yet again they pull it off, though. This episode is full of genuinely valuable information. Paul explains what Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT) actually is, who pays it, and whether your lease company or car dealers are lying to you with their 'tax advice' (spoiler: probably). They also unpack the confusing mess that is the difference between a car loan, a lease, and a novated lease.  And most importantly: The kicker is that EVs (full EVs, not wannabe EV hybrids) are FBT exempt in Australia. If you do it right, that knocks off around 50% off the prices of buying an EV. How? You gotta listen to find out. But remember: While Paul is brilliant, this podcast is still mainly about contaminated sites and resource recovery (some call it dirt and rubbish). So don’t go making financial decisions based on what you heard here without getting your own advice.  Recorded on 11 June 2025 (just before EOFY!)  Link to the EPA announcement regarding NEMP 3 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Gunnar claims almost all duplicates we take serve close to no purpose. If you want to know why, have a listen and be entertained and informed at the same time.  The OGs are back together in this episode, and quite an unusual one it is. This times it is James who goes on a few rants, quite to Gunnar's amusement. Of course, Gunnar has a few things to say as well and he will definitively ruffle some feathers with this episode. We start off with playing Wikileaks by talking about a letter the EPA sent to all auditors regarding the staged introduction of V3 of the PFAS National Environmental Management Plan (NEMP) and also a clarification regarding PFAS and the Duty to Report. (Plug to our previous Episode #25 The Duty to Report).  Then Gunnar and James hash out some ideas on duplicates, high RPDs, re-running of samples, basic statistics, experimental setups in science and why being 'conservative' might not be delivering the results you think it is. Episodes we talk about:  #29 The New AS5370 Standard with Linda Apthorpe  #25 The Duty to Report with Elizabeth Wild. #11 The Sampling Evolution with Ross McFarland Links: EPA regulatory updates Deana Crumbling Security Theatre - Wikipedia This episode was recorded on 17 May 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Attention Asbestos in Soils Specialists, there is a new kid in town. The Australian Standard 4964-2004 Method for the qualitative identification of asbestos in bulk samples has been superseded with a new AS 5370.  What's different? What's better, what's worse? Why are we reporting below the detection and below the reporting limit? Is NATA on board with it? What do all those different sub-categories the laboratories report actually mean? Gunnar is talking to Linda Apthorpe, a Certified Occupational Hygienist and Fellow of the Australian Institute of Occupational Hygienists (AIOH). Linda is Associate Principal Occupational Hygienist at Hibbs in Sydney, a Lecturer at the University of Wollongong, author of multiple scientific papers and speaker at a variety of professional development seminars. There are very few who are better suited to talk about this subject, especially since Linda was also on the panel of people who developed the new Standard. James was unfortunately not there to keep Gunnar in check, and you guessed it, that resulted in not one, not two, but at least three (in)famous Gu-Rants in this episode. Some would say that alone makes this episode compulsory listening for anybody in the industry.  Episodes mentioned:  #2 The Mulchgate  #11 The Sampling Evolution #28 The OCSE Odyssey The episode was recorded on 11 April 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The Office of Chief Scientist and Engineer (OCSE) has issued recommendations concerning asbestos in waste and soil. Sarah Mansfield, Special Counsel (and environmental law superstar) at Norton Rose Fulbright, breaks down the key points and their legal implications. Given the focus on the PoEO Act and its handling of asbestos, you'd expect at least one of our hosts to go off the rails with a classic, epic rant. But, against all odds, age, wisdom, and a dash of professionalism took the reins—so much so that this episode doesn’t even come close to earning the 'explicit' rating it sometimes gets on various platforms.  Gunnar's composure alone is a highlight (though he admits to biting his tongue to the point of unhealthiness!). Add to that the invaluable insights from James and Sarah, and you've got an episode well worth your time. We loved making it as always, and we hope you enjoy every moment. Leave a review or drop us a message. We thrive on connecting with our listeners! Upcoming ALGA event 1 May 2025. Sara is one of the presenters: Sydney Branch Event - OCSE Report: Management of Asbestos in Recovered Fines and Recovered Materials for Beneficial Reuse in NSW | ALGA This episode was recorded on 25 March 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Rod Harwood - do we need to say anything else?  There are few who have had more influence on our industry and who have contributed more than Rod. Gunnar had a chat with Rod and while they reminisce about 'the good old days', Rod sprinkles in some anecdotes of his impressive career and shares gems of his incredible knowledge as an engineer and a business man. James was unfortunately unavailable (you know, work and stuff ...), but we promise, this is one everybody in our industry will enjoy. BTS Episode mentioned: The Duty to Report The episode was recorded on 7 March 2025. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Gunnar and James take a dive into all sorts of events that have happened in the past few weeks. 1 - The EIANZ announces the punishment of a member.  2 - A $30,000 fine issued by a Council 3 - MASSIVE NEWS: The Office of the Chief Scientist and Engineer has released a recommendation to the NSW Government regarding the "Management of asbestos in recovered fines and recovered materials ...".  Gunnar and James present the key points and almost find reasons to celebrate.  We start off with an answer to the question, why there are so many Ampol and Caltex service stations on the contaminated land register. Gunnar's long time friend Simon Caples knows exactly why and he provides a rather amusing and amazing explanation. Flashback to the last episode 'The Duty to Report'. Other BTS Episodes mentioned:  #14 The Honest Truth - Re the EIANZ Code of Ethics #8 The Power Grab - Re the new fines in the PoEO Act #9 The Amazing Pierina - Re asbestos in soil assessments This episode was recorded on 25 February 2025  Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The Duty To Report may seem like a peculiar law in our industry, yet it's just another one of the many quirky regulations that shape our environmental consulting world. As such, it was begging to be turned into a podcast episode. In fact, Gunnar and James are even joking about selling movie rights to this one—so send your offers quickly! In this episode, Gunnar and James sit down with Elizabeth Wild, a distinguished Partner at Jones Day, to unpack the nuances of this obligation. They delve into the specifics of who is required to report, what must be reported, and under what circumstances. They also discuss the pros and cons of playing it safe when you're in the grey zone. Plus, if you've ever wondered what it’s like to stay in the Ice Hotel in Sweden (yes, a hotel made entirely out of ice), Elizabeth offers a perspective that goes beyond the picture-perfect scenes on Instagram. Who knew our podcast would also serve as a travel review platform?  – Enjoy! The episode was recorded on 24 January 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Daniel James is someone worth knowing when you are working in our industry. Is he a contaminated sites or resource recovery leader like many of our other guests? No, but he will put you in touch with such experts if you are looking to employ one.  His decade long experience as a specialised environmental recruiter gives him a unique insight into the workings behind the scenes of our industry. He shares his experience, talks about how he sees our industry performing in 2025, and also gives tips on how to make your next step in your career. Whether you are about to graduate or you are a seasoned environmental Principal, you should not miss this episode. Recording date: 22 November 2024 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond