Advertise on podcast: Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire Accenture found some staff spending $1,000 a month on AI, so it set a $29 monthly limit per employee, and Eric and Neil both think the cap is smart. They point out that reported AI revenue can be gross rather than net, then cite Ramp's AI spend index, where the median is $11. They agree a policy needs exceptions for people who prove value, while Neil shares how he downgraded his ChatGPT plan. The back half covers two-slice teams, Bending Spoons' model of cutting most of a company, and Evernote going from 433 staff at its peak to about 30 today. They close on Berkshire Hathaway's $330M stake in Bending Spoons and the 41% jump in the stock. Spend with a reason. Key takeaways◾Accenture's $29 cap is smart, but proven high spenders should get exceptions◾Most people pay for top models to do basic work, so match the model to the task◾Evernote went from 433 staff at its peak to about 30 under Bending Spoons Chapters00:00 Accenture caps AI spend at $29 a month00:23 Did staff really spend $1,000 a month?01:53 Reported AI revenue is often gross, not net03:31 Ramp's AI spend index: median is $1104:14 Set a policy, then talk to top spenders04:56 Exceptions for people proving value05:45 Neil downgrades his ChatGPT plan06:39 A 45-minute AI session that is worth it08:26 Two-slice teams, not two-pizza teams09:30 Pirate and architect: coordination drag10:25 Small teams ship faster12:00 Meta's 200 people out of 70,00012:39 Bending Spoons: a private equity model14:04 A layoff post that also launches features15:24 Evernote: 433 staff at peak, about 30 now16:18 Why public markets accept deep cuts17:07 Berkshire's $330M stake, stock up 41% 𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel 📩 Free Resources Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/ Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/ ✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Eric and Neil say the rule of 7 has grown toward the rule of 28, and that buyers touch a brand 8 times for a sub-$100 B2C buy and 23 times at $10K-plus. A gelato shop stranger who knew them from different places makes the case that you never know where people will find you. They cover why YouTube drives leads that nobody can attribute, then Meta's $14.9B deal for 49% of Scale AI and the 200-person AI team that Alexander Wang, the former Scale AI CEO, leads. Zuckerberg's line that talent density beats big teams for AI is tested against Meta's 70,000 staff. Neil explains his private equity mindset and his debt at SOFR plus 2%, and they close on the failures that come with big bets. Attention, talent and the cost of big bets. Key takeaways ◾Buyers touch a brand 8 times for a cheap B2C buy and 23 times at $10K-plus ◾Meta built a 200-person AI team out of 70,000 staff, which Zuckerberg calls talent density ◾Meta paid $14.9B for 49% of Scale AI, and Eric says the bet looks like it is paying off Chapters 00:00 Rule of 7 is now the rule of 28 00:44 Touches before buying: 8 cheap, 23 at $10K+ 01:34 A gelato shop stranger, and where people find you 03:53 YouTube drives leads you cannot attribute 04:27 Platforms stop sharing data 06:23 Meta's 200-person AI team, talent over size 07:36 Neil's private equity mindset 09:18 Zuckerberg asks peers what they would do 10:44 Neil's debt: SOFR plus 2% 13:14 Pain now for a bigger company later 14:17 Failures: rockets, timelines and the metaverse Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Eric and Neil start with X Money, which pays 3% cash back and 6% interest, and argue that the offer is under marketed and would get more people investing. They test an AI-written blog post on a client, who took it for human writing, then cover a time-on-page chart that compares human and AI content. They debate whether writing is thinking and whether a real name still beats AI copy. Dan Shipper's claim that newsletters are dying, from a writer with over 120,000 subscribers, leads to a debate on email, AI summaries in the inbox and whether YouTube is S-tier. They close on every channel getting more competitive over time. Human voice still earns the trust. Key takeaways ◾X Money pays 3% cash back and 6% interest, but the 3% has fine print ◾A human byline near the title held readers longer in their time-on-page test ◾Eric and Neil dispute Dan Shipper's claim that newsletters are dead Chapters 00:00 X Money: 6% interest 04:07 The AI blog post test 10:01 Potato, SpaceX and GrokBot 10:33 Writing is thinking 14:26 Which channels are S-tier 15:47 Are newsletters dead? 17:06 AI summaries and the inbox 18:46 Every channel gets more competitive Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Eric and Neil open with Tesla's Roadster flying car, which they treat as a marketing stunt that keeps Tesla in the conversation. The AI fluency gap follows, with Karpathy's funnel, where most people barely touch an LLM, and agents that still misfire. Next is X Money and the newsletter debate, then a blog post test that a client took for human writing. The back half covers the rule of 28, Meta's 200-person AI team inside a 70,000 staff company, and why YouTube leads are hard to attribute. The show ends on Accenture's $29 monthly AI cap, Ramp's AI spend index and Bending Spoons' cuts at Evernote. Attention, trust and spend with a reason. Key takeaways ◾Accenture's $29 AI cap is smart, but proven high spenders should get exceptions ◾Meta built a 200-person AI team out of 70,000 staff, which Zuckerberg calls talent density ◾Tesla's flying Roadster is a stunt, and agents still need a human check Chapters 00:00 Tesla's flying car stunt 04:56 Is the Roadster $50,000 or $250,000? 09:48 Why Porsche lost its edge 12:22 Agents, not models 13:58 Agents still unreliable in marketing 17:19 Karpathy's AI-gap funnel 20:00 Agent slop and the cost of rework 21:00 Workflows as a service 22:08 X Money: 6% interest 26:34 The AI blog post test 32:08 Potato, SpaceX and GrokBot 32:41 Writing is thinking 36:34 Which channels are S-tier 37:55 Are newsletters dead? 41:24 Rule of 7 is now the rule of 28 45:17 YouTube drives leads you cannot attribute 47:47 Meta's 200-person AI team, talent over size 49:00 Neil's private equity mindset 52:08 Neil's debt: SOFR plus 2% 55:41 Failures: rockets, timelines and the metaverse 56:42 Accenture caps AI spend at $29 a month 1:00:14 Ramp's AI spend index: median is $11 1:02:09 Neil downgrades his ChatGPT plan 1:03:03 A 45-minute AI session that is worth it 1:04:49 Two-slice teams, not two-pizza teams 1:09:02 Bending Spoons: a private equity model 1:11:47 Evernote: 433 staff at peak, about 30 now Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Some agencies win clients by inviting decision makers to Formula One boxes, but Neil prefers the way banks play the wine and dining game. Bank of America sent his CFO to a World Cup game with the hotel paid, and Wells Fargo offers suites and seats after the deal is done, just to say thanks. Then a competing bank tried to match Wells Fargo's refinance offer at the last minute, after months of saying no. Eric shares a group text pitch dressed up as comparing notes, and Neil tells the worst pitch he's heard: a financial advisor chasing a friend's $25M house sale and eight-figure profit with one cherry-picked account and a stock that barely moves down. A blunt episode on relationships and selling. Key takeaways ◾Thank-you tickets with no pitch keep clients around ◾Match the offer early, because last-minute fixes come too late ◾Be direct when you sell, and show all your numbers Chapters 00:00 The wine and dining game 00:47 Competitors win clients with Formula One boxes 01:30 Bank of America sent our CFO to the World Cup 02:32 Wells Fargo offers tickets after the deal 03:39 Tickets with no sales pitch keep clients 04:44 The bank that came too late 05:48 Too little, too late, like a bad hire 06:33 Steve Jobs to Tim Cook: do the right thing 07:18 Group texts gone wrong 08:49 Selling while pretending not to sell 09:50 The worst sales pitch 10:52 One client account next to Buffett and Ackman 12:05 70% leverage and 'it barely moves down' 12:58 AI showed the stock drops far more often 13:44 Big investors get deals you don't Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Eric built thumbnail, editing and posting skills, and his long-form YouTube videos went from about 500 views to 15,000 to 25,000. Some of the team wouldn't use them, so they had to let people go, and the one person who stepped up is now fixing the Marketing School channel's trends, thumbnails and 30-second retention. Neil says AI optimizes for average, which still beats a below-average team, but you need humans in the loop. They cover Bain's 94% stat, why Neil would rather hire great marketers and teach them AI, and a senior SEO candidate who read straight off a Claude template. Then Neil's Zappos story, how Uber outspent Lyft, why AI rewards whoever raises billions, and Neil's Muse outreach to M&A advisors. An honest episode on AI skills and hiring. Key takeaways ◾Skills only work when someone spends real time tuning them ◾Hire people who stay curious and put their best foot forward ◾Small touches like Zappos' overnight shoes build loyalty Chapters 00:00 We got more views by firing 00:51 Skills took Eric's videos from 500 views to 25K 02:13 Cover the trend first, fix thumbnails and retention 02:56 Neil: AI optimizes for average 04:01 You still need humans in the loop 04:46 Bain's 94% and the coming job displacement 05:30 How we hire marketers now 06:36 A senior SEO candidate read off a Claude template 08:38 Lazy before the contract means worse after 09:46 The agency hire who said they're too slow 10:31 Hire people who never stop learning 11:12 Small touches build brands 12:38 Fundamentals move metrics more than campaigns 13:48 Uber won by subsidizing more than Lyft 15:08 Why a cheap Waymo rival can't win 16:10 AI rewards whoever raises billions 17:11 Muse is taking the market 17:58 Neil's Muse outreach lands a UK call 18:51 Red flags in the deals bankers pitch Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Someone added $500K in ARR in a week by putting their app in ChatGPT plugins, and Eric wants Carrot, Answer the Public and Ubersuggest in there too. Neil says that at scale, plugins help retention more than revenue. He's also seeing clients arrive with business problems instead of asks, like revenue down 6% and leads down 32%, and Eric says that grows the market for agencies. Then customer service as marketing: a SpaceX growth lead fixing Grokbot before a webinar, On refunding an order without telling Eric, and Neil's Marriott check-in. They compare the Ritz-Carlton's budget to go beyond policy with Airbnb's 9-star idea, then trade travel tips on room service, compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage. A practical episode on plugins and service. Key takeaways ◾ChatGPT plugins are a distribution channel worth building for ◾Pitch the fix for the client's business problem, whatever the channel ◾Bending policy to fix a mistake earns word of mouth Chapters 00:00 Plugins add $500K in ARR 01:13 Neil: plugins help retention more than revenue 02:05 Clients bring problems now 03:10 Revenue down 6%, leads down 32% 04:17 Solving the whole problem set grows the TAM 04:58 Customer service is marketing 06:06 On.com's surprise refund and split order 08:03 Neil's Marriott check-in 09:22 Charged for the night before, told to wait 10:11 A room appeared once it was their fault 10:58 Grokbot support hid behind policy 11:55 Ritz-Carlton and Airbnb's 9-star experience 12:39 Four Seasons prices, Disney cruise experience 13:56 Room service, laundry and one carry-on 14:48 Compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

It's Q4, so Eric and Neil run through their business and marketing highlights and lowlights for the year. Eric's win was hiring AI-native people after learning he couldn't train everyone, and Neil's was the lowest churn in a long time. Neil explains bankruptcy clawbacks, where the lawyers always win, with FTX legal fees near $700M, and how tariffs and war cut client budgets. Eric's team now makes and manages bots, including one that shortlists recruits every day. On marketing, YouTube is bringing enterprise leads, Neil found out he did 12.7M views in 30 days, and Gavin Baker reports 80% of token spend has flipped to open-weight models. Eric covers outbound, wedges and Higgsfield's weekly launches, and Neil explains why he wants the chill life. A candid look back at the year. Key takeaways ◾Hire adaptable, AI-native people instead of trying to train everyone ◾Let bots handle evaluation work like recruiting shortlists ◾Test lots of ideas cheaply, then back the ones with traction Chapters 00:00 Q4 business highlights 00:44 Eric's lowlight: thinking he could train people 01:28 Neil's lowest churn in years 02:32 Bankruptcy clawbacks and legal drama 03:29 Lawyers always win: FTX's $700M in fees 04:43 Tariffs, war and budgets 06:20 Optimistic about 2027? 07:05 Payment plans for groceries 08:31 We make and manage bots 09:13 Recruiters who say they can't build it 10:00 Marketing highlights 10:47 Enterprise leads who found us on YouTube 11:32 Ad Age's performance marketing agency of the year 13:33 Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days 14:38 A slow speaking summer, two months at home 15:37 Neil only buys companies at a good deal 16:21 Best returns with the least stress 17:14 Outbound, wedges and 15-minute standups 18:39 Skillsdojo: pair engineers with marketers 19:43 Crank out 100 ideas, double down on winners 20:48 Gavin Baker: 80% of token spend flipped 21:46 Higgsfield ships a new feature every week 22:28 Neil does better in services than tech 23:42 Think like a capital allocator 25:08 Neil just wants the chill life Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

How to grow a YouTube channel with AI, win clients with the wine and dining game, and use ChatGPT plugins for growth. Eric's AI skills for thumbnails, editing and posting took his long-form views from about 500 to 15,000 to 25,000, and the people who wouldn't use them had to go. Neil says AI optimizes for average, and they cover hiring and why AI rewards whoever raises billions. Then the wine and dining game: Formula One boxes, Bank of America and Wells Fargo tickets, and a financial advisor's pitch after a friend's $25M house sale. Next, ChatGPT plugins adding $500K in ARR, clients arriving with leads down 32%, and service stories from Grokbot, On and Marriott. They finish with Q4 highlights and lowlights, from recruiting bots to Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days. The whole conversation in one place. Key takeaways ◾Skills only work when someone spends real time tuning them ◾Thank-you tickets with no pitch keep clients around ◾Pitch the fix for the client's business problem, whatever the channel Chapters 00:00 We got more views by firing 00:51 Skills took Eric's videos from 500 views to 25K 02:13 Cover the trend first, fix thumbnails and retention 02:56 Neil: AI optimizes for average 04:01 You still need humans in the loop 04:46 Bain's 94% and the coming job displacement 05:30 How we hire marketers now 06:17 A senior SEO candidate read off a Claude template 08:19 Lazy before the contract means worse after 09:27 The agency hire who said they're too slow 10:11 Hire people who never stop learning 10:53 Small touches build brands 12:19 Fundamentals move metrics more than campaigns 13:29 Uber won by subsidizing more than Lyft 14:48 Why a cheap Waymo rival can't win 15:51 AI rewards whoever raises billions 16:52 Muse is taking the market 17:38 Neil's Muse outreach lands a UK call 18:31 Red flags in the deals bankers pitch 19:25 The wine and dining game 20:12 Competitors win clients with Formula One boxes 20:55 Bank of America sent our CFO to the World Cup 21:56 Wells Fargo offers tickets after the deal 23:03 Tickets with no sales pitch keep clients 24:06 The bank that came too late 25:09 Too little, too late, like a bad hire 25:55 Steve Jobs to Tim Cook: do the right thing 26:39 Group texts gone wrong 28:10 Selling while pretending not to sell 29:12 The worst sales pitch 30:14 One client account next to Buffett and Ackman 31:26 70% leverage and 'it barely moves down' 32:20 AI showed the stock drops far more often 33:06 Big investors get deals you don't 33:53 Plugins add $500K in ARR 35:06 Neil: plugins help retention more than revenue 35:58 Clients bring problems now 37:03 Revenue down 6%, leads down 32% 38:09 Solving the whole problem set grows the TAM 38:51 Customer service is marketing 39:59 On.com's surprise refund and split order 41:40 Neil's Marriott check-in 42:59 Charged for the night before, told to wait 43:48 A room appeared once it was their fault 44:35 Grokbot support hid behind policy 45:32 Ritz-Carlton and Airbnb's 9-star experience 46:16 Four Seasons prices, Disney cruise experience 47:32 Room service, laundry and one carry-on 48:25 Compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage 50:17 Q4 business highlights 51:01 Eric's lowlight: thinking he could train people 52:04 Neil's lowest churn in years 53:08 Bankruptcy clawbacks and legal drama 54:05 Lawyers always win: FTX's $700M in fees 55:19 Tariffs, war and budgets 56:56 Optimistic about 2027? 57:41 Payment plans for groceries 59:07 We make and manage bots 59:49 Recruiters who say they can't build it 1:00:37 Marketing highlights 1:01:24 Enterprise leads who found us on YouTube 1:02:08 Ad Age's performance marketing agency of the year 1:03:54 Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days 1:04:58 A slow speaking summer, two months at home 1:05:57 Neil only buys companies at a good deal 1:06:41 Best returns with the least stress 1:07:35 Outbound, wedges and 15-minute standups 1:09:00 Skillsdojo: pair engineers with marketers 1:10:03 Crank out 100 ideas, double down on winners 1:11:08 Gavin Baker: 80% of token spend flipped 1:12:06 Higgsfield ships a new feature every week 1:12:48 Neil does better in services than tech 1:14:02 Think like a capital allocator 1:15:28 Neil just wants the chill life Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Why versus pages are your secret SEO weapon. Noah Kagan shipped 19 SEO pages from a $20 Mac app and got six sales in three days, and Eric breaks down the two page types every product needs: versus pages and best-for guides. Neil adds two fixes, getting other sites to publish them and comparing the brands ChatGPT and Claude already recommend, and says comparison pages drive more revenue than listicles. Then Instinct: 10% daily growth, 40% of users adding a card, and why Neil would sell it to Apple. Sam Lessin says there is no moat in AI agents, Neil's Muse test turns hundreds of drafts into three sent emails, and Outrank's data shows sites with 400+ links got 115% more Google clicks. A practical episode on SEO and AI agents. Key takeaways ◾Build versus and alternative pages for the competitors AI already cites ◾AI agents have little loyalty, so the product has to keep earning it ◾Linkable assets still move Google clicks Chapters 00:00 Noah Kagan's 19 SEO pages and 6 sales 01:16 Neil: get other sites to publish your pages 02:38 Listicles are the new links 03:39 Comparison pages drive more revenue than listicles 04:02 Instinct: 10% a day, 40% add a card 05:21 Neil: Instinct should sell to Apple 06:37 Eric bets the founder sells 07:39 Apple could build this itself 08:24 Sam Lessin: there is no moat in AI agents 10:02 Neil's Muse test: hundreds of drafts, 3 sent 13:47 Every's personal agent comparison 14:24 Jev as a classifier for a fraction of a penny 16:36 Nobody is loyal to an AI product 17:37 Outrank: 400+ links, 115% more Google clicks 19:48 Neil: building something good? Ignore the hate 20:58 Linkable assets beat bought links Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Neil's team won a $6M, three-year SEO contract without talking about SEO: they pitched the business problem, the board's numbers and the ROI. Eric reads the September jobs report, 29,000 jobs against a 90,000 forecast, and they agree that without AI growth the economy would be in recession. Neil shares a grocery bill and a moment at Target, and his plan to stop taxing people under $100K. Then agents: Latin America's biggest retailer, optimizing for LLMs to choose you, and Eric's Meta agent haggling 40% off an order from On. Eric covers OpenAI's Dots and its new distribution channels to 1 billion monthly users, and they close on X Money's 6% offer. A grounded episode on selling in hard times. Key takeaways ◾Pitch the business outcome, not rankings or links ◾Optimize for AI agents to choose you, not just list you ◾A great offer still beats a clever pitch Chapters 00:00 Neil's team won a $6M SEO deal without talking SEO 01:28 Sell the business case, not features 03:23 September jobs report: no AI, recession 04:26 Neil's grocery bill and the grandma at Target 06:47 Bridging the gap to abundance 07:26 Neil's tax plan for people under $100K 08:49 How to win any deal: solve their problem 09:35 Latin America's biggest retailer and AI agents 10:35 Optimize for LLMs to choose you 12:28 Eric's Meta agent haggles 40% off at On 14:01 Neil won't let AI near his travel 14:47 OpenAI's Dots spots errors in your email 15:36 Dot.com is owned by SpaceX 16:08 OpenAI's 1B MAU distribution channels 17:21 Microsoft and Google will undercut the labs 18:23 X Money: 6% on cash, 3% back 20:36 Neil wants his cash back in SpaceX stock Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

AI labs are paying millions of dollars for company data through third parties, so should you sell yours? Neil says it depends on the business model, and Eric warns the labs will use that data to compete with you. Then a Bain study: only 6% of marketers say AI has had a significant impact on performance. Eric explains why that matches the top slice of any company, Neil shares the three places AI is actually winning for clients, and an a16z chart shows just 2.2% of households pay for AI. They explain why they stopped hiring clippers after YouTube's originality update, why niche videos bring qualified leads, and how Neil now picks topics from his sales pipeline. An honest episode on data and content. Key takeaways ◾Do not sell data that lets the labs compete with you ◾AI only pays when it is aimed at work that moves revenue ◾Original, niche content beats clipped reach Chapters 00:00 Should you sell your data to the AI labs? 02:06 Data is the moat as models converge 02:51 Eric's YouTube videos are driving leads 03:45 Bain: only 6% of marketers see AI impact 05:13 Neil asks: how many of you are growing? 06:10 Neil's top 3 AI wins in marketing 07:29 AI amplifies effort, and only 2.2% of homes pay 08:59 Why we stopped hiring clippers 09:58 YouTube's originality update for Shorts 11:54 Neil's team wanted 10 clip channels 12:58 Eric no longer needs an editor or a poster 13:32 Niche content brings qualified leads 15:27 Neil's channel: topics from the sales pipeline 16:52 Long form once a month, shorts twice Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Instinct, the AI agent that lives in iMessage, is growing 10% a day, and Eric says its 23-year-old founder proves you do not need a personal brand to win. Neil explains why personal brands worked five years ago, why Neil Patel Digital became NP Digital to cut key man risk, and why shoppers now switch brands on a dime. Eric shares DHH's talk on all the things his team no longer does, and the OpenRouter chart where agents use 7.5 trillion tokens against 1 trillion for humans. Then the bill arrives: finance teams pushing back on AI spend, a friend burning $14K a day on tokens, and Hormozi's memo capping his team's AI budget. They close on hiring AI-native people who can keep up. A sharp episode on brand and AI spend. Key takeaways ◾People buy the product now, not the founder's personal brand ◾Every AI tool needs an ROI number, not an estimate of time saved ◾Hire people who are AI native and can prove a return Chapters 00:00 Instinct grows 10% a day, no personal brand needed 01:21 Lisa Su's Formula One badge moment 02:06 Personal brands worked five years ago 02:41 Why Neil Patel Digital became NP Digital 04:01 Shoppers now switch brands on a dime 05:32 It has never been easier to make 06:19 DHH: look at all the things I'm not doing 07:34 Agent tokens now dwarf human tokens 10:50 Finance teams push back on AI spend 11:32 A teammate maxed out the Ahrefs tokens 13:02 A friend spends $14K a day on tokens 13:44 B2B tools ship too many features 14:49 Hormozi's AI usage cap memo 16:44 Training won't fix a mindset 18:28 Hire AI-native people who can keep up Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire Eric shares how Cody Schneider works as an AI-native marketer, and Neil talks about his interview on Cole Gordon's show and why research is what separates a good interview. Then Neil says out loud that his personal brand is dying, judged by fewer photo requests at events, and Eric explains it with the four burners theory and the shift from social media to interest media. They talk about the content an experienced operator should make, why Neil keeps playing the game, and Eric's travel stats. The close covers why brand takes ten years or more, YouTube's coming thumbnail tests by audience segment, and Clay's CEO on why brand has to start with the founder, not the CMO. An honest episode about brand, time and attention. Key takeaways◾Interest media rewards the post, not the follower count◾A real brand takes ten years or more to build◾Brand starts with the founder; a CMO cannot install it Chapters00:00 The AI-native marketer: Cody Schneider01:36 Neil on Cole Gordon's podcast04:24 Research is what makes an interview good04:54 'My personal brand is dying'06:35 The four burners theory07:19 Social media became interest media09:03 What Neil's team does for him now12:49 Addicted to the game13:27 Eric's travel stats16:36 Which speaking gigs are worth it17:54 Brand takes 10+ years20:03 SEO has always evolved20:24 YouTube's big changes: thumbnails by segment22:11 Clay: brand starts with the founder

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire Eric shows the Jev use cases he is running for his teams, from classifying every Instagram follower to scoring hooks and offers across competitors for a few dollars. Neil explains how his Muse agent now writes the follow-ups on M&A deals he first discussed two or three years ago, and why he gives Meta access he would never give the AI labs. Eric predicts Google and Apple will each ship their own Muse, and they compare it with OpenClaw. Then the story of an AI answer nobody checked and why Neil told them he would fire the person, followed by the core idea: AI is leverage, and leverage on a bad position just loses you money faster. They close on an $80M real estate pitch Neil walked away from. A practical episode on putting AI agents to work. Key takeaways◾Classification at scale now costs dollars, not an analyst's week◾The deals you close come from follow-ups on talks two or three years old◾AI is leverage: it multiplies good judgment and bad judgment equally Chapters00:00 Jev use cases for marketers02:50 Neil's AI writes his M&A follow-ups06:02 Prediction: Google and Apple ship their own Muse07:53 OpenClaw vs Muse11:13 'I would fire you': AI output nobody checked13:07 Slop cannons in an AI-native company13:54 AI is leverage15:11 The $80M real estate pitch17:12 Location, location, location