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In Part 2, David and Jesse get into the leadership lessons that shape a home care business long before they show up on a spreadsheet. They discuss why staffing managers and schedulers are among the most undervalued people in the industry, how connecting them directly with clients and referral partners can improve care and business development, and why sales, staffing, and client care need to understand one another's challenges. The conversation then moves into a bigger question: What should a business actually be for? Jesse shares his philosophy that Hillendale Home Care should be a vehicle for people to grow into better, more capable versions of themselves. From the six human needs discussed by Tony Robbins to the Hero's Journey popularized by Joseph Campbell, they explore how leaders can create meaningful work, challenge their teams, and build a culture where talented people want to stay. Jesse also opens up about finding fulfillment in developing others, drawing on his experience as a wrestler and coach. The conversation takes a literary detour into books, including Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, Walden, and Theo of Golden, as David and Jesse reflect on presence, family, and the importance of slowing down enough to appreciate life outside work.  Finally, Jesse shares what he's proud of at Hillendale, including the launch of new locations in Marin County and Monterey County, and gives shout-outs to two people he believes deserve more recognition in home care: Cash Edwards of Greenstaff Home Care and Daniel Stringer. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Bring staffing managers closer to the people they serve. Schedulers and staffing managers do more than fill shifts. When they understand clients' needs, meet caregivers, and build relationships with referral partners, they can make better matches, improve care, and help drive business growth. 2. Treat mistakes as opportunities to learn, not reasons to blame. When something goes wrong, leaders should focus on understanding the situation, supporting the people involved, and preventing the same mistake from happening repeatedly. A team's response to a problem can strengthen relationships rather than damage them. 3. Build a culture where people can grow beyond their current roles. Great leaders challenge employees, expand their capabilities, and help them become more valuable and confident. Instead of making the business revolve around the owner, create an organization that serves as a vehicle for the growth and development of its people. 4. Create meaningful work and make room for presence. People want stability, variety, significance, connection, growth, and the opportunity to contribute. Leaders who understand these needs can build stronger teams while remembering that personal fulfillment also comes from being present with family, appreciating others, and enjoying life beyond professional accomplishments. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction 01:46 – Why staffing managers and schedulers are undervalued in home care 05:49 – How staffing, client care, and sales work together to build trust and grow the business 09:11 – How to turn staffing mistakes into opportunities to strengthen relationships 17:03 – The Hero's Journey and why a business should help its people grow 28:14 – Books, personal growth, and the importance of being present 32:02 – Hillendale's new locations and Jesse's recommendations for people to know in home care Resources: 1. Connect with Jesse Walters on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessewalters/ 2. Learn more about Hillendale Home Care: https://hillendalehomecare.com/ 3. Cash Edwards: Home care professional at Greenstaff Home Care 4. Daniel Stringer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danieltstringer 5. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 6. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 7. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 8. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage Books and Literary Works Mentioned: 1. Pilgrim at Tinker Creek by Annie Dillard: https://a.co/d/0aMmmDE8 2. Walden by Henry David Thoreau: https://a.co/d/0cUaC8ri 3. Theo of Golden by Allen Levi: https://a.co/d/0iMOjEeg 4. Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy: https://a.co/d/08m6WODs 5. No Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthy: https://a.co/d/0eTo36dg 6. The Road by Cormac McCarthy: https://a.co/d/0cwSbEFu

David Knack doesn't usually record an intro before an episode, but this conversation with his good friend Jesse Walters was so much fun that it turned into his first-ever two-part episode. While they cover plenty of home care, they also venture into personal development, leadership, family, and the unexpected ways we learn about ourselves along the way.  In Part 1, David and Jesse explore what happens when you achieve your biggest business goals but still feel like something is missing. After acquiring Hillandale Home Care and growing the business by approximately 800% in three and a half years, Jesse found himself caught in a familiar cycle: reaching one milestone only to immediately chase the next. The numbers looked impressive, but the fulfillment he expected wasn't there. He began to recognize how much of his ambition was tied to proving his worth, earning recognition, and believing that the next achievement would finally make him feel like he had made it. Through conversations about the Enneagram, executive coaching, personal development, and even Jesse's experience with painting, David and Jesse unpack the tension between pursuing meaningful goals and constantly measuring yourself against the next finish line.  Jesse shares how he's learning to appreciate the progress he's made, become more present with his wife and children, and separate his identity from his professional accomplishments. They also explore why self-awareness matters in leadership, how taking time to celebrate can change your perspective, and why building a successful business starts with understanding the person behind it. This is a candid conversation about ambition, fulfillment, and learning to recognize the value of where you are today… not just where you're trying to go. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Stop moving the goalpost. Constantly chasing the next milestone can prevent you from appreciating what you've already accomplished. 2. Separate your identity from your achievements. Business growth and professional success don't determine your worth as a person or the impact you have on others. 3. Understand what's driving your ambition. Self-awareness and personal development can help you recognize when your goals are rooted in genuine purpose versus a need for validation or recognition. 4. Practice self-compassion and be present. Learn to appreciate the journey, embrace imperfection, and show up for the people who matter instead of always focusing on what's next. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction 18:14 – From Planning a Year Off to Acquiring Hillandale Home Care 20:28 – Growing the Business by Approximately 800% in Three and a Half Years 21:31 – Jesse's Biggest Mistake: Always Chasing the Next Goal 25:33 – The Difference Between a Meaningful Mission and Personal Insecurity 27:49 – How the Hoffman Process Changed Jesse's Perspective 30:57 – Showing Up for Yourself, Your Family, and Your Company 37:22 – Self-Compassion and Recognizing Your Own Worth Resources: 1. Connect with Jesse Walters on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessewalters/ 2. Learn more about Hillendale Home Care: https://hillendalehomecare.com/ 3. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 4. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Olivia Jones, Executive Vice President of Operations at Care Advantage, joins David Knack to share lessons from nearly three decades in home care from starting as a caregiver to leading operations across Virginia, DC, and Maryland. She explains how moving from frontline problem-solving into strategic leadership changes the way you think about people, processes, and performance. Olivia argues that leaders need to be careful not to become so focused on KPIs that they lose touch with the frontline. While data and strategy are essential for scaling, she believes the mission and the people doing the work must remain at the center of decision-making. Olivia also discusses the realities of home care, including caregiver recognition, customer service, scheduling, and the importance of building care teams instead of relying on a single caregiver. She explains why consistency matters so much to clients and how setting realistic expectations can create a more reliable care experience. The conversation also looks at technology and AI in home care. Olivia believes technology can take mundane work off employees' plates, but emphasizes that technology cannot replace physical presence. She shares why leaders still need to spend time in their markets, observe the work firsthand, and recognize what's going well, not just hear about problems. In this episode, you'll discover: 1. Olivia's journey from the front lines of home care to executive leadership at Care Advantage. 2. How Care Advantage evolved from five locations to an organization serving thousands of caregivers. 3. Why technology can improve operations but cannot replace human connection. 4. How Care Advantage approaches care teams, caregiver support, and client relationships. 5. Why clinical expertise and measurable outcomes are changing the role of personal care in healthcare. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Stay close to the frontline. Growth and KPIs should never disconnect leaders from the people delivering care. 2. Develop people, not dependency. Great leaders teach their teams how to solve problems instead of solving everything for them. 3. Build for consistency. A strong care team can provide clients with more reliable support than depending on one caregiver. 4. Invest in caregivers. Recognition, development, and clear career paths can strengthen the people at the center of the business. 5. Prove the value of personal care. Clinical rigor and outcome measurement can help demonstrate how home care improves quality of life and keeps people out of the hospital. Timestamps: 00:00 – Don't let KPIs disconnect you from the frontline 02:51 – Olivia's journey from caregiver to executive leader 07:30 – The most important thing a leader can do 08:33 – Teaching employees to solve problems themselves 14:35 – Growing from five locations to nearly 10,000 caregivers 18:41 – Why AI can't replace physical presence 19:47 – What leaders discover by staying close to clients 26:54 – What home care really is 30:58 – Why care teams create consistency for clients 33:49 – How agencies can better support caregivers 35:38 – Why personal care needs clinical expertise 37:44 – Measuring outcomes and proving the value of personal care Quotes 1. "You're in the danger zone when you get so disconnected from what's happening out there on the frontline." — Olivia Jones 2. "The tech can't replace physical presence." — Olivia Jones Resources: 1. Connect with Olivia Jones on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliviajones/ 2. Learn more about Care Advantage: https://www.careadvantageinc.com 3. Care Advantage's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/careadvantageinc/posts/ 4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 5. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 6. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 7. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Ethan Schwartzbach, CEO of Flychain, joins David Knack to unpack the financial and operational challenges that can make or break a growing home care business. From messy financials and generic accounting systems to benchmarking and proactive decision-making, Ethan explains why having accurate, home-care-specific data can fundamentally change how owners run their businesses. Ethan also shares one of Flychain's biggest early mistakes: building too much in a silo instead of staying close to customers and prospects. He explains how that experience changed the company's approach to product development and reinforced the importance of listening to the people actually using the technology. The conversation also tackles one of the most talked-about topics in healthcare technology: AI. Ethan argues that AI can be transformational, but warns against treating it like a magic solution. He and David discuss the risks of automating bad processes, the importance of AI governance and guardrails, and why home care organizations need to think carefully about how technology affects caregivers and other stakeholders. As the conversation moves into growth, Ethan explains why growing too quickly can create financial problems weeks or months down the road, why cash-flow forecasting matters, and why successful agencies consistently invest time in their clinical and operational teams. He also breaks down how the right KPIs can turn financial data from a source of confusion into actionable information. In this episode, you'll discover: 1. How generic accounting systems can make it difficult to understand profitability, corporate structures, expenses, and performance at the level home care operators actually need. 2. Why Ethan believes Flychain moved too quickly without enough customer feedback early on, and how staying close to users reshaped the company's product development. 3. How accurate, granular financial data can help owners move beyond using their books as a tax placeholder and start using them to make business decisions. 4. Low staffing costs, utilization, cancellations, caseload, and other underlying variables can affect gross profit, and why simply looking at one top-line number isn't enough. 5. Why automation can actually create more work or damage relationships when the underlying process isn't working in the first place. 6. How regularly creating forums for clinical and operational employees can improve engagement, retention, and their connection to the organization. 7. Why tracking metrics like cancellation rates is only the first step, and how breaking those metrics down can reveal the operational issues driving them. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Clean financial data is more than bookkeeping. Accurate, granular numbers can help home care owners make proactive decisions rather than simply report what already happened. 2. Build with the customer, not just for the customer. Ethan's biggest early lesson was that what makes sense internally can be very different from what customers actually need. 3. AI isn't a substitute for good processes. Technology works best when the underlying workflow is already thoughtfully designed. 4. Growth needs financial discipline. Taking on more clients and hiring ahead of demand can create cash-flow problems if growth is uneven or temporary. 5. Your employees are the lifeblood of the organization. Successful agencies create opportunities for clinical and operational employees to provide feedback and feel like people rather than cogs in a system. 6. Don't let data become decision paralysis. Focus on the handful of financial metrics and KPIs that actually help you determine what action to take. 7. Benchmarks need context. Knowing your number isn't enough, you also need to understand what good performance looks like and which underlying variables are driving the result. 8. The goal of financial intelligence is action. The most useful data is information that can be interpreted quickly and translated into a specific next step. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction  02:10 – Why Flychain is positioned as a home-care-specific alternative to QuickBooks 03:02 – Granular financial data and benchmarking for home care 05:16 – Ethan's biggest mistake: building too much in a silo 11:35 – Moving from retroactive analysis to proactive business decisions 14:36 – What Ethan thinks is overrated in home care 16:36 – What happens when you automate a bad process 17:48 – AI governance, context, and guardrails 19:19 – The small financial mistakes that become bigger problems 20:26 – "Death by a thousand paper cuts" and financial mismanagement 25:50 – The key metrics that help owners make decisions 29:55 – What Ethan is proud of at Flychain 30:23 – How benchmarks define "good" for home care agencies 31:43 – How to connect with Ethan and Flychain Quotes 1. "Building what's in our brains can actually be quite different from what an actual user and customer wants to see." — Ethan Schwartzbach 2. "It's a lot easier to make those decisions and be proactive about your business when you have the numbers that will tell you a story." — Ethan Schwartzbach 3. "At the end of the day, that is the lifeblood of your organization. It's your employees." — Ethan Schwartzbach Resources: 1. Connect with Ethan Schwartzbach on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-schwarzbach-baa09571/ 2. Learn more about Flychain: https://www.flychain.us/ 3. Email Ethan: [email protected] 4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 5. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 6. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 7. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Jensen Jones, Owner and CEO of Home Care CEO Forum, returns to discuss five things he was wrong about and how his thinking has evolved. From the founder bottleneck myth to overtime as a strategic tool, Jensen opens up about the mindset shifts that reshaped how he leads and facilitates peer groups for the top 10% of home care operators. In this candid conversation, Jensen explains why finding a strong number two isn't enough if the founder won't actually let go, why uncontrolled overtime is a recruiting problem rather than just a cost issue, and why benchmarking data without context can create a false sense of security. He also shares his changed perspective on the GUIDE program after hearing Nancy Gillette present data on client conversion rates. Jensen also discusses the "fishbowl effect" of being surrounded by high-performing operators, the power of "forever KPIs" that work at any agency size, and why he's opening up the Home Care CEO Forum's first-ever all-member in-person event in Denver. In this episode, you'll discover: 1. The Founder Bottleneck Myth: Why having a strong number two only works if the founder actually steps back and trusts them to make decisions. 2. Overtime as a Strategic Tool: How intentionally sustainable overtime for top caregivers can be a retention tool rather than just a cost to eliminate. 3. Why Context Beats Generic Benchmarks: How big industry reports can mislead without knowing the variables behind them, and why cohort data matters more. 4. Culture as the Hidden Variable: Why two agencies that look identical on paper perform completely differently based on the strength of their culture. 5. The Guide Program Reconsidered: How Jensen went from dismissing it as a loss leader to seeing real conversion data that changed his mind. 6. Forever KPIs: How to set metrics that work whether you're a million-dollar agency or a forty-million-dollar agency. 7. The Fishbowl Effect: Why being surrounded by high performers can skew your perspective on what's normal in the broader market. Lesson Takeaways: 1. The founder is the bottleneck, not the talent gap. A strong number two only helps if the founder actually steps back and trusts them to make decisions. 2. Overtime can be strategic, not just wasteful. Intentionally sustainable overtime for top caregivers can be a retention tool worth the investment. 3. Context matters more than benchmarks. Generic industry data without knowing the variables behind it can create a false sense of security. 4. Culture is the unmeasurable competitive advantage. When two agencies look identical on paper, the one with a clearly lived culture wins. 5. Let better information change your mind. Staying rigid isn't strength. When credible evidence shows up, be willing to update your position. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction to Jensen Jones and the Home Care CEO Forum 03:23 – The founder bottleneck: why a strong number two changes everything 04:02 – The time study exercise that reveals how much owners really delegate 04:36 – Why Jensen was wrong about overtime being purely a cost issue 04:55 – The strategic case for sustainable overtime with top caregivers 10:04 – Benchmarking: why context and cohort data beat generic industry reports 10:39 – Culture as the hidden variable between similar-looking agencies 12:38 – The five-minute test for diagnosing your culture's health 13:32 – Why Jensen changed his mind about the GUIDE program 18:13 – "Forever KPIs": metrics that work at any agency size 20:20 – The recruiter ratio that ensures schedules stay balanced 21:05 – The fishbowl effect and why high performers need perspective 23:00 – The Home Care CEO Forum's first all-member in-person event in Denver 25:00 – How to connect with Jensen and Home Care CEO Forum Quotes 1. "A good number two shouldn't just give the owner more capacity. They keep the owner from becoming the capacity." — Jensen Jones 2. "Sometimes the better question isn't how do I eliminate overtime? It's is this overtime intentionally sustainable in helping me keep the right people?" — Jensen Jones 3. "Culture is like, do I clearly understand what we're trying to achieve, how I participate within that, and are my values similar to the values of the organization? When those things marry up, people will move mountains." — Jensen Jones 4. "If you still feel like you're the filter for all the decisions that go through the business, that is a symptom that you do not have a number two in the role who's functioning the way they should." — David Knack Resources: 1. Connect with Jensen Jones on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jensenjones/ 2. Learn more about Home Care CEO Forum:https://www.homecareceo.com/ 3. Home Care CEO Forum on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/homecareceoforum/ 4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 5. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 6. Powered by Zingage:https://zingage.com/ 7. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Jamie Arber, Executive Director of Supported Living Group, shares how his organization supports individuals with brain injuries, autism, and other complex care needs across Connecticut. He discusses the major gaps in access to Medicaid brain injury services, why home care operators need to think beyond traditional in-home care, and how advocacy, community-based programs, and specialized services can create better outcomes for the people they serve. Jamie also reflects on the career mistake of staying too long in an organization that didn't align with his service philosophies, the risks of relying too heavily on technology, and how giving people purpose can transform both care delivery and business growth. In this episode, you'll discover: 1. The Eight-Year Wait for Brain Injury Services: Why Connecticut's Medicaid Acquired Brain Injury Waiver program leaves individuals waiting years for the support they need. 2. Why Advocacy Matters in Home Care: How working with lobbyists, legislators, and industry associations can help providers influence funding, access, and policy decisions. 3. The Problem With Replacing Community-Based Care: Why moving brain injury services entirely into the home can create challenges for behavior, independence, and social connection. 4. Building Services Around Real Needs: How Supported Living Group developed neurodivergent employment programs, counseling, resume development, and interview preparation. 5. The Cost of Staying in the Wrong Organization: Jamie's biggest career mistake and why leaders need to work somewhere that aligns with their service philosophies. 6. Why AI and Technology Aren't Always the Answer: How highly specialized organizations can lose the value of human connection when they try to force generic systems into niche care environments. 7. Giving People a New Identity: How creative arts and vocational programs help individuals move beyond being defined by a disability and rediscover purpose. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Don't accept the Status Quo. Long-standing problems in healthcare and home care still need people willing to challenge the system. 2. Advocacy is a long-term investment. Meaningful change requires relationships, education, persistence, and a seat at the table. 3. Community matters. For many individuals with brain injuries or disabilities, care should include opportunities to participate, socialize, work, and feel connected. 4. Services should reflect the individual's needs and goals, not simply what is easiest for the provider to deliver. 5. Staying in a comfortable role can come at a personal and professional cost when the organization's values don't match your own. 6. Be careful with one-size-fits-all technology. Tech should support the work, not replace the specialized knowledge and human relationships that make care effective. 7. Bringing in professionals from different backgrounds can create new ideas, stronger programs, and better business decisions. 8. Helping people develop skills, employment opportunities, and a sense of identity can be just as important as providing direct care. 9. Operators need the right infrastructure, management, oversight, and quality assurance to deliver the services they advertise. 10. Growth is more meaningful when it creates independence, purpose, and better opportunities for the people being served. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 03:23 - The lack of access to brain injury and disability services 04:02 - Connecticut's six- to eight-year Medicaid waiver wait list 04:36 - Comparing Connecticut's services with New York 04:55 - Why Supported Living Group invests in advocacy 10:04 - Jamie's biggest career mistake 10:39 - Jamie's experience as a brain injury survivor 12:38 - Why leaders should not be the smartest person in the room 13:32 - Developing neurodivergent employment programs 18:13 - Hiring people from outside the traditional home care industry 20:20 - Why AI and ERS systems can be overrated 21:05 - The importance of human connection 23:00 - How technology should support—not replace—care 25:00 - Reducing turnover through connection and purpose 27:46 - The mistake of giving up community-based locations 28:50 - The danger of overpromising statewide services 34:42 - Jamie's proudest recent accomplishment: Inspire Arts CT 35:07 - Creating vocational opportunities and micro-jobs 35:49 - Purpose beyond a disability label Quotes 1. "Currently, on paper they say it's a six-year wait list. It's more like an eight-year wait list." — Jamie Arber 2. "People don't know there's a problem until you're sitting down with them." — Jamie Arber 3. "They go from being a stroke survivor, a brain injury survivor, somebody on the spectrum, to being an individual who's an artist." — Jamie Arber Resources: 1. Supported Living Group: https://www.supportedlivinggroup.org/ 2. Jamie Arber on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-arber-b215a1242/ 3. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 4. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Emily Harlan, Vice President of Business Development at 24/7 Solutions and longtime home care sales leader, shares the lessons she learned from building referral relationships, navigating hospital systems, and becoming a top-performing salesperson in home care. From getting her foot in the door of the largest hospital in her market during COVID to completely changing how she approached referral marketing, Emily explains why home care sales isn't about being everyone's best friend—it's about delivering value, asking the right questions, solving problems, and confidently asking for the referral. In this episode, you'll discover: 1. The 10-Minute Hospital Strategy: How a handwritten note and a promise to take only 10 minutes eventually earned Emily access to an entire hospital case management team. 2. Why Relationships Are Overrated: Being a referral source's best friend isn't necessary for sales success, and why results matter more than relationship-building alone. 3. The Secret to Better Sales Conversations: How spending roughly two-thirds of a sales conversation on needs discovery helps you deliver value that actually matters to the referral source. 4. How to Turn Referral Sources Into Your Sales Team: Educating and empowering referral providers can create an "army of salespeople" advocating for your agency when you're not in the room. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Lead With Value, Not Giveaways: Referral sources remember useful information that helps them serve their patients, not the latest trinket you dropped off. 2. Don't Make Sales About Friendship: You don't have to be someone's best friend to earn referrals. Show up consistently, deliver professional value, and focus on outcomes. 3. Let Curiosity Drive the Conversation: Ask questions about struggles, patient populations, bottlenecks, and outcomes before pitching your solution. 4. Position Yourself as the Expert: Your goal isn't simply to represent your agency. Become the person referral sources think of when they have questions about senior care. 5. Ask for the Business: Don't leave referrals to chance. Give the referral source a clear trigger, timeframe, and action. 6. Your Operations Matter: Salespeople can only confidently sell what the organization actually delivers. If you can't authentically say your company is the best, fix what's happening inside the business. 7. Think Like a Problem Solver: Sales becomes much less intimidating when you stop thinking about yourself as someone interrupting someone's day and start thinking about yourself as someone who can solve a problem. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 02:11 - Meet Emily Harlan 03:07 - How Emily built hospital referral relationships during COVID 05:05 - Getting access to a hospital's case management team 08:29 - Overcoming affordability objections 09:34 - Sell the result—not just the service 10:27 - Emily's biggest sales mistake: leading with trinkets 12:19 - Switching from gifts to education and value 13:35 - Positioning yourself as the senior care expert 15:02 - Why needs discovery should drive the sales conversation 16:08 - Reframing the customer's real problem 17:53 - Turning referral providers into your sales team 18:55 - Why relationships are overrated 19:28 - Relationships don't bring revenue, referrals do 20:18 - Why sales isn't about you 23:26 - Can you honestly say your company is the best? 24:56 - Emily's journey from caregiver to salesperson 25:30 - Why everyone is in sales 26:04 - Getting rid of the "slimy salesperson" mindset 27:30 - Why you should ask for the business 28:02 - You don't have to be everyone's best friend 30:01 - The small mistake that costs home care salespeople referrals 31:09 - The power of staying quiet after asking for a referral 32:02 - How to use a referral script without sounding robotic 33:15 - 24/7 Solutions' six-week sales training program 34:40 - Where to learn more about 24/7 Solutions Quotes 1. "Relationships don't bring in revenue, referrals do." — Emily Harlan 2. "You are selling a result and a solution." — Emily Harlan 3. "Whoever is asking the questions during that conversation controls the conversation." — Emily Harlan 4. "You are really creating an army of salespeople on your behalf." — Emily Harlan 5. "After you ask for the referral, be quiet." — Emily Harlan 6. "If you cannot say that with authenticity, go back to the office and change some things." — Emily Harlan Resources: 1. 24/7 Solutions: https://247solutions.co/ 2. Emily Harlan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-harlan-5412a9181/ 3. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 4. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

In this episode of Home Care Hindsight, host David Knack welcomes Guy Tommasi, a seasoned leader in the home care industry with over 25 years of experience. Guy shares his journey from hospital care to pioneering innovative, data-driven strategies in non-medical home care. He takes us to a discussion of the importance of differentiating your agency by aligning with stakeholders' needs, leveraging data to demonstrate outcomes, and the pitfalls of overemphasizing "scaling" as a measure of success. Guy also highlights the transformative power of collaboration, both within teams and with clinical partners, and why home care agencies should seize opportunities in higher-acuity care.   Lesson Takeaways: 1. Success is Defined by You: Don't let external benchmarks like "scaling" dictate your agency's success. Focus on what aligns with your goals and values. 2. Speak Your Stakeholders' Language: To stand out in a competitive market, translate your services into outcomes that matter to referral sources, such as reduced hospital readmissions and improved patient satisfaction. 3. Empower Your Team: Leadership isn't about making all the decisions—it's about involving your team, fostering ownership, and trusting them to drive innovation. 4. Don't Assume Clinical Programs Aren't for You: Non-medical home care agencies can play a critical role in value-based care and hospital-at-home programs. Challenge assumptions and explore new revenue streams.   Timestamps: 00:00 - Welcome to Home Care Hindsight 02:10 - The competitive landscape of Connecticut's home care market 04:35 - How data became a differentiator for Guy's agency 08:28 - The power of speaking stakeholders' language 12:19 - Overcoming the "private pay" objection with referral sources 16:39 - Guy's "Neuralizer" moment: The 2004 Yankees-Red Sox World Series 19:48 - The big mistake: Trying to lead alone instead of empowering the team 25:00 - A team success story: How a supervisor transformed their data program 29:47 - Why "scaling" is overrated in home care 33:25 - The problem with calling caregivers "unskilled" 36:24 - The mistake of leaving clinical opportunities on the table 42:10 - Guy's proudest moment: Helping an agency join a hospital-at-home program 45:00 - Final plug: Home care's strategic role in the future of healthcare   Quotes: Guy Tommasi: "Success is what you feel it is. Don't let the word 'scale' intimidate you or dictate whether you're successful or not." David Knack: "An urgent problem in home care is also an important one, which makes it crucial to respond with emotional maturity." Guy Tommasi: "Don't assume because something is 'clinical' that it's not for you. 80% of health outcomes are non-medical—that's our space." Guy Tommasi: "Leadership isn't about dragging people along—it's about directing their energy and letting them own the results."   Resources: 1. Guy Tommasi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guy-tommasi-a0a4bb18/ 2. Corcoran Consulting Group LLC: https://www.corcoranconsultants.com/ 3. Corcoran Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/corcoranconsultinggroup-llc/ 4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 5. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 6. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 7. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Jeff Salter, Founder and CEO of Caring Senior Service, joins host David Knack for an unforgettable conversation about leadership, growth, and a cross-country adventure. Jeff shares how a 9,500-mile electric bike journey to celebrate his company's 30th anniversary transformed his perspective on delegation and leadership. Along the way, he raised $170,000 to install grab bars in senior homes, creating a lasting impact. This episode dives deep into Jeff's mindset shift from "doing it all" to empowering his team, the lessons learned from mistakes, and his innovative approach to improving the home care industry with tools like InkyScribe. Packed with stories of perseverance, humility, and progress, this is one you won't want to miss.   Lesson Takeaways: 1. Trust your team—delegating unlocks time for bigger goals. 2. Bold milestones, like Jeff's bike ride, can inspire movements and strengthen company culture. 3. Data-driven decision-making should focus on internal metrics, not industry averages. 4. Clear, respectful communication is vital to retaining employees and clients.   Timestamps: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Introduction to Jeff and his career in home care. [00:03:00] The 9,500-mile bike ride: celebrating 30 years and raising $170,000. [00:09:00] Lessons in delegation: what Jeff learned on the road. [00:14:00] Jeff's big mistake: not asking for help earlier in his career. [00:24:00] Why internal data is more valuable than chasing industry stats. [00:31:00] Communication as a key to employee retention. [00:37:00] Delegation and automation tips to kickstart the new year.   Quotes: 1. Jeff Salter: "I celebrated 30 years of business by biking 9,500 miles—and I learned I'm not as important as I thought." 2. Jeff Salter: "Anything you think only you can do, someone else can learn and thrive doing." 3. David Knack: "Big change starts with a bold move—Jeff's bike ride is proof."   Resources: 1. Connect with Jeff Salter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-salter-10871a7/ 2. Caring Senior Service: https://caringseniorservice.com/ 3. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 4. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 6. Subscribe on Zingage's YouTube:https: //www.youtube.com/@Zingage

In this episode of Home Care Hindsight, host David Knack sits down with Julio Briones, CEO of The Briones Group Consulting, to explore his unique journey in the home care industry. From his start in home care at the tender age of 15 to becoming a well-respected consultant, Julio shares valuable lessons learned along the way.  The conversation takes a deep dive into the challenges of hiring, the myth of the caregiver shortage, and the importance of proper legal documentation. Julio's story is a mix of humor, hard-won wisdom, and a surprising love for karaoke.  This episode is a must-listen for anyone in the home care industry looking to avoid common pitfalls and find innovative solutions to their staffing challenges.   Lesson Takeaways:  • Always invest in having your service agreements professionally reviewed to protect your intellectual property and avoid costly mistakes.  • Relying on one client or one type of service can be risky. Explore additional verticals to ensure business stability.  • Whether it's with clients or caregivers, nurturing relationships is crucial for business growth and employee retention.  • Make quick decisions based on measurable outcomes and don't be afraid to cut losses when necessary.   Timestamps: [00:00:00] Getting to know Julio and his career in home care. [00:01:50] Julio's perspective on hiring stay-at-home moms for flexible roles. [00:06:32] Discussing Julio's biggest mistake in consulting and the lessons learned. [00:12:00] The importance of proper legal documentation in business. [00:17:21] Overrated vs. Underrated: Julio's take on the caregiver shortage myth. [00:30:30] The art of failing quickly: why making quick decisions can save your business. [00:38:40] Julio's latest business ventures and what excites him about the future.   Quotes:  • Julio Briones: "The best lessons that we learn in life and what creates true wisdom are usually the most painful and most expensive for us to learn."  • David Knack: "Learning's always expensive."  • Julio Briones: "There's no shortage of caregivers; there's a shortage of agencies that know how to retain them."   Resources: 1. Briones Consulting Group: https://bcgclienttools.com/is-our-partnership-the-right-fit 2. Julio Briones on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julio-briones/ 3. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 4. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Jeremy Fuller, a digital marketing expert with 23 years of experience and founder of Grow Senior Care Marketing, shares actionable insights for home care agencies.    In this episode, you'll discover: 1. The ChatGPT Surprise: How a client found their agency through ChatGPT—without it being a marketing goal. 2. The $500 Mistake: Why most home care agencies waste 80% of their Google Ads budget (and how to fix it). 3. Automation Pitfalls: The dangers of over-automating caregiver recruitment and how to strike the right balance. 4. SEO Myths Debunked: Why tracking rankings isn't SEO—and what moves the needle. 5. AI's Double-Edged Sword: How AI changes search behavior and the risks of unvetted AI-generated content.   Lesson Takeaways: 1. Stop Choking Ad Spend: A $500/month Google Ads budget is often too small to be effective—either go bigger or pause entirely. 2. Humanize Automation: Use tech to streamline processes (like caregiver nurturing), but keep critical touchpoints personal. 3. Reviews Matter: Agencies with 100+ Google reviews dominate local search—aim higher than the industry average of 40. 4. AI Proof Your Content: Always review AI-generated material for compliance risks (e.g., "fall prevention" vs. "fall assistance").   Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 01:20 - Guest Introduction 01:23 - The unexpected ChatGPT client discovery story 02:47 - AHA! Moments, Learnings and Opportunities from Checking Business Processes in Home Care Agencies 03:17 - Jeremy's partnership to launch a home care agency in Tulsa 03:45 - Compliance challenges and automation opportunities in home care 05:00 - The problem with sending caregivers back to Indeed 06:55 - Jeremy's unique approach: Offering prayer during marketing audits 07:45 - The big mistake: Over-automating caregiver communication 09:10 - How to automate wisely (without losing the human touch) 11:06 - The most underrated SEO tactic: Google reviews 12:12 - What SEO actually is (and isn't) 14:27 - Mistakes Home Care Makes: Choking Google Ads Spend 16:43 - Why small Google Ads budgets fail—and how to optimize keywords 18:17 - Jeremy's recent SEO breakthrough (the "quarter pickup" strategy) 20:00 - AI's impact: ChatGPT as a search alternative and compliance risks 23:22 - The danger of AI "slop" and how to avoid it   Quotes 1. "80% of Google Ad budgets are wasted on the wrong places. If you're spending $500/month, you might as well not run ads at all."  — Jeremy 2. "SEO isn't tracking rankings—it's taking actions to send Google the right signals. Reviews are part of that, but not the whole story." — Jeremy 3. "AI is like the early days of Google. It's not replacing search yet, but it's starting to uptick—and home care needs to pay attention." — Jeremy   Resources: 1. Grow Senior Care Marketing: https://growseniorcaremarketing.com/ 2. Jeremy Fuller on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-fuller-marketing/ 3. Ultimate Home Care Marketing Session: https://growseniorcaremarketing.com/grow-my-agency/ 4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 5. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 6. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 7. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Jensen Jones, CEO of Home Care CEO, opens up about the surprising mindset shift that reshaped his entire business model from an "exclusive" high-revenue think tank to a values-driven, mission-aligned community. In this candid conversation, Jensen and host David Knack explore how aligning personal values with business decisions can radically improve culture, retention, and growth. Jensen reflects on how his father's illness helped define his core values and how he now helps agencies scale without losing their humanity. He reveals the dangers of over-customizing roles, why playbooks prevent burnout, and why culture, not revenue, is the most accurate measure of success. In this episode, you'll discover: 1. How exclusivity undermined his mission and what he did to fix it. 2. The "playbook" system that makes tribal knowledge scalable. 3. Why caregivers should be your biggest fans (and how to make it happen). 4. How defining roles instead of people avoids disaster. 5. Why agencies growing on paper might actually be stuck. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Define your culture first and then align everything else. 2. Exclusivity creates silos; accessibility builds connection. 3. You can't scale around unicorns. Build roles, not people. 4. Retention isn't just a strategy. It's a reflection of values lived daily. 5. Revenue without culture is just noise. Growth starts from within. Timestamps: 00:00 – Welcome to Home Care Hindsight 01:25 – Meet Jensen Jones & his core values 05:25 – The story of his father's illness & realignment 07:22 – Why exclusivity clashed with his mission 10:40 – Scaling relationships across revenue groups 14:52 – Turning members into the face of Home Care CEO 15:15 – How peer groups amplify values and ideas 18:02 – Culture that makes you want to work there 17:30 – Caregiver-first culture in action (with a flat tire) 22:07 – Screening for values during hiring 23:26 – Why top-line revenue is overrated 26:30 – Defining scalable roles, not just people 29:46 – Don't punish your producers—manage bandwidth 31:34 – The value of team-created playbooks 32:24 – Playbooks as culture and training tools 36:33 – Using the org chart to plan your future team 37:36 – Hiring for the agency you want, not just the one you have 38:01 – Recent wins: Member growth, new groups, and impact 39:55 – Final thoughts & how to connect with Jensen Quotes: 1. "I don't want to be the face of Home Care CEO. Our members are the face. Let's amplify their voices." — Jensen Jones 2. "Culture isn't on the wall—it's what people repeat, live, and use to make decisions." — Jensen Jones 3. "We're not scaling unicorns—we're scaling systems." — Jensen Jones 4. "Revenue's up, but census is flat? That's not growth. That's inflation." — Jensen Jones Resources: 1. Jensen Jones on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jensenjones/ 2. Home Care CEO's website: https://www.homecareceo.com/about-us/ 3. HOMECAREceo Forum Community: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3273154/ 4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 5. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 6. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 7. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

In this episode of Home Care Hindsight, host David Knack welcomes Chuck Bailey, founder and CEO of True North Holdings, to discuss the realities of being a small business owner in the home care industry. With decades of experience as a corporate executive, franchisee, franchisor, and now a service provider to franchisees, Chuck shares invaluable insights on the challenges of entrepreneurship, the importance of financial discipline, and the two critical roles every business owner must master: driving revenue and building a team. He also reflects on his biggest mistake: trying to control everything, and how learning to delegate and trust his team transformed his business. Lesson Takeaways: 1. The Two Core Responsibilities of an Owner: Focus on driving revenue and building your team. Everything else can be delegated or outsourced. 2. Avoid Overcontrol: Holding onto tasks too tightly limits growth. Delegate early and trust your team to execute, even if their methods differ from yours. 3. Financial Cadence is Key: Regularly review your finances, regardless of whether you're struggling or thriving. Consistency in financial oversight prevents surprises and fuels growth. 4. Hire for Vision Alignment: Prioritize hiring bright, adaptable people who understand and embody your mission, rather than just industry experience. 5. AI as a Tool, Not a Miracle: While AI can enhance consistency and efficiency, it requires training and alignment with your business's core values to be effective. Timestamps: 00:00 - Welcome to Home Care Hindsight powered by Zingage 02:24 - The challenges of being a small business owner in home care 07:25 - Chuck's biggest mistake: Trying to control everything 12:44 - The importance of mission and vision in team building 19:18 - Financial cadence: Why it's critical for business success 24:41 - Overrated in home care: Exotic marketing solutions 29:50 - The role of AI in home care and maintaining message consistency 34:31 - A small mistake with big consequences: Delegating sales too soon 40:41 - Chuck's win of the week: Launching My Franchise Bookkeeper Quotes Chuck Bailey: "The two jobs of a business owner are to drive revenue and build the team. Everything else can be outsourced." David Knack: "The rub of leadership is holding the vision tightly but the execution loosely." Chuck Bailey: "People buy from people who care. That's the foundation of home care." Chuck Bailey: "80% of AI is crap. The 20% that works can change your business—if you train it right." Resources 1. Chuck Bailey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesbailey/ 2. True North Holdings on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/true-north-holdings/ 3. True North Holdings website: https://www.true-north-holdings.com/ 4. My Franchise Bookkeeper: https://www.linkedin.com/company/myfranchisebookkeeper/ 5. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 6. Connect with Zingage on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zingage/ 7. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com/ 8. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Jeremy Meng, owner of Always Best Care, Jacksonville, tells host David Knack his biggest leadership mistake: assuming others think and operate like him. As an Air Force vet and federal agent, he brought unspoken expectations into home care, causing confusion with clients and caregivers. Fixing this changed how he onboards, trains, writes contracts, and leads. Jeremy also embraces AI (Claude, Zingage Operator) to strengthen operations, find compliance gaps, automate busywork, and free time for human connection, not to replace people, but to reduce admin burdens and protect meaningful moments. The discussion covers servant leadership, communication, expectation-setting, AI, and a simple lesson that solved problems he once blamed on others.   Lesson Takeaways: 1. Unspoken expectations create most problems: What's obvious to you isn't to others. Complaints and breakdowns often stem from assumptions never clearly stated. Leaders must articulate expectations explicitly. 2. Under-promise and define success clearly: Clients are happier when they know exactly what to expect. Transparency and clear boundaries build trust better than vague promises. 3. Caregivers need clarity, not correction: Many performance issues come from unclear instructions, not bad workers. Specific dos/don'ts and consistent coaching reduce conflict and boost confidence. 4. AI should support human relationships: The goal is to remove repetitive work so staff can focus on serving clients and caregivers; tech should increase, not decrease, human connection. 5. Front-end work determines AI success: Investing time in workflows, guardrails, and escalation points before launch yields far better results than fixing problems post-implementation.   Timestamps: 00:00 – Welcome to Home Care Hindsight podcast powered by Zingage 01:12 – Introducing Jeremy Meng and his background in the Air Force and law enforcement 02:49 – Why Jeremy resisted entering healthcare and home care 03:42 – Using AI to improve communication, compliance, and operations 06:26 – Building roles, responsibilities, and policies with AI 09:50 – Implementing AI agents inside a home care business 11:42 – How AI reduced after-hours scheduling burdens 13:43 – Using Ask Riley to improve operational workflows 14:20 – Maintaining the human touch while adopting AI 17:20 – Jeremy's advice for successfully implementing AI 18:44 – Transition to Home Care Hindsight's "big mistake" 19:10 – The danger of unspoken expectations 20:21 – Setting expectations with clients from day one 21:34 – Where caregiver expectations were breaking down 21:44 – "I thought everyone operated like me"   Quotes: Jeremy Meng: "I thought everyone operated like I did because I was with a bunch of military folks. And they don't. They need specific guidelines of dos and don'ts." Jeremy Meng: "Most clients are good if you let them know the expectations. If you're going to promise them everything and then under-deliver, that's where the problems start." Jeremy Meng: "This wasn't a way of us getting away from that human touch. It was actually helping us provide more of that human touch." Jeremy Meng: "As the owner and leader, I need to do that. That was bad on me. That was not on them." David Knack: "This is taking on a lot of the mundane stuff that wears people out, but still maintaining the level of service that clients expect."   Resources: 1. Connect with Jeremy Meng on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-meng-meng78corp/ 2. Learn more about Always Best Care Senior Services: https://alwaysbestcare.com/shalimar/about-us/ 4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com 6. Watch this episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

JM and Michelle Simmonds join David Knack alongside Alex Veach of Agenda Health for a behind-the-scenes look at the journey from startup founders to successful sellers—and what came next after the deal closed. What began as a small home care agency eventually grew into Clear Path Home Care, a multi-location operation serving rural communities across Texas and Colorado. Rather than chasing large metropolitan markets, the Simmonds built their reputation by going where others wouldn't—bringing care to underserved communities, creating jobs in rural areas, and becoming a trusted provider for veterans through their VA partnerships. The conversation explores the realities of building a home care business without a roadmap, the challenges of scaling across multiple markets, and the operational decisions that ultimately made Clear Path an attractive acquisition target. JM and Michelle share how they transitioned from owner-operators into executive leaders, why they initially had no plans to sell, and how a routine valuation unexpectedly opened the door to a life-changing opportunity. Alex Veach provides the advisor's perspective on what buyers are looking for in today's market, why some agencies command premium valuations, and the common mistakes owners make when preparing for an eventual exit. Together, they unpack the importance of leadership development, operational independence, payer diversification, and long-term strategic thinking. Whether you're just starting your agency or already thinking about succession planning, this episode offers practical lessons on building a business that creates impact, generates value, and provides options for the future. Lesson Takeaways: 1. Build a Business Worth Owning Before Building One Worth Selling: Strong operations and culture create long-term value. 2. Underserved Markets Often Hold the Biggest Opportunities: Success doesn't always come from chasing the largest cities. 3. Community Relationships Drive Sustainable Growth: Local trust can become a powerful competitive advantage. 4. Owners Must Eventually Work On the Business, Not Just In It: Leadership teams create scalability and enterprise value. 5. Valuations Are Strategic Planning Tools: Understanding your agency's value can help guide future decisions and opportunities. 6. Revenue Concentration Creates Risk: Even successful payer relationships should be balanced with diversification. 7. Exit Readiness Starts Years Before a Sale: The best outcomes come from consistent preparation rather than last-minute planning. 8. Great Agencies Attract Great Buyers: Businesses built on strong fundamentals tend to create more opportunities when they go to market. Timestamps: 00:00 — Welcome to Home Care Hindsight Podcast powered by Zingage 01:32 — Meet JM Simmonds, Michelle Simmonds, and Alex Veach 04:06 — The founding story behind Clear Path Home Care 05:49 — Building a business before home care resources were widely available 06:15 — Moving operations from Austin to rural Texas 08:06 — Discovering unmet demand in underserved communities 09:14 — Reinvesting profits to fuel growth 09:36 — Expanding into new markets across Texas 10:32 — Michelle's transition from nursing to marketing leadership 11:52 — Growing as a private-pay agency 12:27 — The breakthrough opportunity with VA contracts 13:17 — Becoming the provider willing to serve overlooked markets 14:18 — How estate planning led to a professional valuation 15:17 — The conversation that sparked thoughts of an exit 16:00 — Evaluating opportunities beyond Clear Path 17:38 — Alex Veach's journey into healthcare M&A 19:31 — Why Agenda Health works with owners long before they sell 20:33 — What made Clear Path stand out in the market 21:42 — Building an agency that buyers wanted 22:03 — Lessons learned from creating a valuable business Quotes: Michelle Simmonds: "Do you want to make money or do you want to make a difference?" Michelle Simmonds: "I think we're going to have to make a difference before we make money." JM Simmonds: "You have to find someone in that market that has ties to that community." JM Simmonds: "A lot of business owners either don't have a plan beyond the sale, or they haven't built the business correctly to get there." Alex Veach: "Great agencies sell themselves." Resources: 1. Riverside Home Care — https://rivhc.com/ 2. Clear Path Home Care — https://clearpathhomecare.com/ 3. Connect with JM Simmonds on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jm-simmonds-821430165/ 4. Connect with Michelle Simmonds on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/michele-simmonds-02a3811a7/ 5. Connect with Alex Veach on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-veach/ 6. Agenda Health — https://agendahealth.com/ 7. (Mentioned) Brown & Fortunato 8. (Mentioned) Leading Home Care (Stephen Tweed)  9. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/ 10. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com 11. Watch this episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage