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Today's episode begins with a confession: many of us don't like snakes. For some of us, that is putting it mildly. Snakes slither through our nightmares and our sacred stories alike, from the serpent in the garden to whatever might be under the next rock on the trail. But what if fear is only part of the story? Jarrod is joined by Dr. Joe Gordon, Professor of Theology at Johnson University, a teacher and writer, and one of the most thoughtful people he knows on the relationship between Christian faith and the created world. Joe has spent years helping students think deeply about God, the Bible, humanity, and the rest of creation. One of his most enduring fascinations is not an abstract doctrine or an obscure theological debate. It is snakes. The conversation ranges from the suburban St. Louis garden bed where a four year old Joe first saw a snake, to primatologist Lynne Isbell's argument that our eyesight and our brains were shaped by our long relationship with venomous snakes, to Genesis 1 and the claim that the deepest line in the creation account is not between humans and everything else but between God and everything God has made. Along the way: why Joe teaches theology outdoors, what a bioblitz on a 320 acre campus can do for a doctrine class, why an American lawn is ecologically worse than a desert, and why English ivy on a Georgia hillside is not the same thing as ivy on a thousand year old English wall. It is a surprisingly hopeful conversation. Joe suggests that a flourishing world is not one stripped of mystery or danger, but one where we learn to inhabit creation with humility, curiosity, and even affection for creatures very different from ourselves. If snakes make you uneasy, stay with us. This isn't a conversation that asks you to love snakes overnight. It is one that treats misunderstood creatures with a kind of redemptive care, and asks whether the world God made might be stranger, richer, and more beautiful than we imagined. If this conversation is helpful, please like, subscribe, and share it with a friend. #ComplexCreatures #CreationCare #Theology #Snakes #Herpetology #CreatureTheology #Genesis #ChristianEcology #Appalachia #GreatSmokyMountains #Copperhead #Biodiversity #PublicTheology #SpiritualityAndTheCommonGood Short set for Instagram or Threads: #ComplexCreatures #CreationCare #Theology #Snakes #Biodiversity #Appalachia

What happens to a country when the church stops being the one room where people who vote differently still sit together? On this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons talks with Ryan Burge, a political scientist, former pastor, and researcher at the John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis, whose new book is The Vanishing Church. Together they trace how the moderate congregation hollowed out, why that is bad for democracy and not just for church people, and what the rural mega church is really doing to the small churches around it. They dig into the 1990s sorting that nobody noticed until 2000, why people actually leave church, the dairy farmer who taught Ryan how to be a father, and the humility of a preacher who ends a sermon with "but I might be wrong." Go to church to learn how to be a human being. #ComplexCreatures #RyanBurge #TheVanishingChurch #GraphsAboutReligion #ChurchDecline #ReligionAndPolitics #AmericanChristianity #Polarization #ReligiousPluralism #ThirdSpaces #ChristianPodcast #FaithAndCommunity #SpiritualPodcast

Is artificial intelligence a tool we steer, or one that is quietly steering us? On this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons talks with Nathan Barczi, a pastor and theologian who holds doctorates in theology from Nottingham and economics from MIT, where he also serves as a chaplain. Together they ask what AI is doing to our work, our relationships, and our sense of what it means to be human. They dig into the economics of attention and addiction, Sherry Turkle's idea of settling for "alive enough," the danger of AI substituting for friends and even parents, and why Aquinas's understanding of the soul means you cannot truly befriend a machine. Use the tool. Do not become it. #ComplexCreatures #NathanBarczi #FaithAndAI #ArtificialIntelligence #TechnologyAndFaith #WhatMakesUsHuman #HumanFlourishing #TheologyAndTechnology #ChristianPodcast #FaithAndCommunity #SpiritualPodcast

Can a Netflix series or a Gilmore Girls rerun carry a word from God? On this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with singer, author, and podcaster Savannah Locke, co-host of The Subtext, to talk about reading pop culture for its spiritual undercurrents. Savannah shares the fire poppy that became her life metaphor, why she threw a phone-free album launch for Songs of Peace in Times of War, and how a scene in Gilmore Girls opened up new names for God. They wrestle with shrinking attention spans, Paul Kingsnorth's Against the Machine, the strange success of Theo of Golden, and what it means to read the Bible against ourselves rather than as a weapon. A thoughtful case for paying attention. Look underneath. #ComplexCreatures #SavannahLocke #TheSubtext #NoSmallEndeavor #PopCultureAndFaith #FaithAndCulture #TheologyAndPopCulture #PayingAttention #ChristianPodcast #FaithAndCommunity #SpiritualPodcast

What is the smartphone in your pocket quietly forming you into? On this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons talks with pastor and theologian Dillon Thornton about his book Deathly (De)Vices: Our Ever-Present Portals to Seven Ancient Sins, which reads our screens through the old Christian language of the seven deadly sins. Drawing on Evagrius of Pontus, Aquinas, and a memorable story about violinist Fritz Kreisler, they trace how devices amplify vainglory, envy, sloth, and lust, and how pornography is uniquely deforming young men. Thornton reframes technology not as neutral but as spiritual formation: our phones echo Jesus's call to abide. The takeaway is bracing. You can live without it, and you might be more human if you did. #ComplexCreatures #DillonThornton #DeathlyDevices #SevenDeadlySins #SpiritualFormation #TechnologyAndFaith #DigitalDiscipleship #SocialMediaAndFaith #ChristianPodcast #FaithAndCommunity #SpiritualPodcast

What if the crisis facing boys and men isn't a lack of rules, but a missing aspiration? A vision not just of what to avoid, but of who to become? In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with author, ordained minister, and New Testament scholar Zachary Wagner ( Director of Programs at the Center for Pastor Theologians, DPhil graduate of the University of Oxford, and co-host of the Pastor Theologians Podcast) to talk about his forthcoming book Men of Virtue: How the Fruit of the Spirit Forms Male Character in the Modern World (Brazos Press, May 26, 2026), the follow-up to his 2023 Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality (InterVarsity Press). Zach lays out a framework he calls three revolutions leading to a fourfold crisis: the Industrial Revolution, which untethered male embodiment from meaning-making; the Sexual Revolution, which reshaped gender roles and intimacy; and the ongoing Technological Revolution, which is accelerating the displacement faster than we can metabolize it. The result is a generation of boys and men casting around for something, anything, to fill the void: parasitic masculinity influencers, martial arts as identity, deaths of despair. What if the answer the Church has been holding all along is the fruit of the Spirit? Together, Jarrod and Zach explore: Why "don't misbehave" is the lowest possible bar, and what an aspirational, virtue-rooted vision of manhood actually looks likeThe legacy of Wild at Heart, purity culture, and Joshua Harris, the good, the bad, and the wreckage left behindRichard Reeves's Of Boys and Men and why both left and right finally agree something is wrongThe fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control — as a Christian alternative to neo-Stoic "bro-icism"Why organized sports, martial arts, and even fraternities historically emerged as responses to industrial displacementThe theological scandal of male embodiment, and why disdain for our own bodies isn't piety, it's pathologyThe three things boys and men need from older men: acceptance, aspiration, and delight , including the simple, unfashionable words "I like you."Zach's hope is straightforward but rare: a vision of masculinity that is distinctly Christian, biblically grounded, embodied, and aspirational, not a culture-war flag, not a list of prohibitions, but participation in the divine nature itself. #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #ZacharyWagner #MenOfVirtue #NonToxicMasculinity #BrazosPress #InterVarsityPress #FruitOfTheSpirit #ChristianMasculinity #BiblicalMasculinity #VirtueEthics #CenterForPastorTheologians #PastorTheologiansPodcast #JarrodLongbons #PeachtreeChristianChurch #RichardReeves #OfBoysAndMen #WildAtHeart #JohnEldredge #PurityCulture #MensMinistry #MaleFormation #SpiritualFormation #Discipleship #ChristianStoicism #FaithAndCulture #TheologyAndCulture #ChristianPodcast #SpiritualPracticesForTheCommonGood

When you hear the word "masculinity," what's the first image that shows up — for better or worse? And what changes if the real answer has less to do with being a man and more to do with being good? In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons steps out from behind his own show with producer Alan Barnes for a wide-ranging, unscripted conversation about masculinity — what we inherit, what we choose, and why the topic has become so hard to talk about. Together, Jarrod and Alan explore: How a holiday spent with nephews — rock climbing, ropes courses, trips to the nail salon — got Jarrod thinking about what we actually tell boys about being a good manPromise Keepers, Wild at Heart, and the cultural whiplash between "be a leader" and "be sensitive"The manosphere — from the Tate brothers to Jordan Peterson — as "a very bad answer to a very good problem"Why resentment is the engine drawing so many young men in, and how the economy and online dating feed itThe case against essentialism — why virtue (faith, hope, love, courage, prudence, temperance) belongs to everyone, expressed through each person's own temperamentJarrod's "real hot take": that what young men need most is an older man to look at them and say, I see you, and you're okayAlan's closing reflection on expressing who you are through the lens of virtue, responding instead of reacting, and learning to trust yourselfIt's not a checklist, and it's not the final word — but as Jarrod puts it, that's rather the point. We are complex creatures, and this is a conversation worth continuing. #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #Masculinity #Virtue #ChristianFormation #Discipleship #Mentorship #BoysAndMen #FaithAndCulture #SpiritualFormation #Fatherhood #ManosphereDiscourse #RootedAndRenewed #ChristianPodcast #TheologyAndLife #PeachtreeChristianChurch

What does it mean to carry tradition without becoming a relic — in a world that's either obsessed with novelty or stuck in nostalgia? In this episode of Complex Creatures, the tables turn: Alan O.W. Barnes steps out from behind the scenes to host, putting Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons in the guest seat for a wide-ranging conversation about traditioned innovation — the language Jarrod borrows from theologian L. Gregory Jones and Andrew Hogue's Navigating the Future — and what it looks like to lead a 100-year-old congregation in Midtown Atlanta into its next century. Drawing on John Henry Newman's image of doctrine as a river, Robert Webber's Ancient-Future vision, and a memorable story about a 1980s church bus ministry, Jarrod unpacks the difference between the purpose of a tradition and the container it arrives in — and why mistaking one for the other is how communities end up worshipping at the feet of relics. Together, Alan and Jarrod explore: Why tradition and innovation are a tension, not a conflict — and how Christianity itself is a traditioned innovation of JudaismThe "spirit and purpose versus container" framework, and how it changes everything from bus ministries to worship styleHow Holy Eucharist shapes Peachtree's architecture, liturgy, and even its strategic plan — "everyone has a place, everyone is called, everyone is welcome"The elders' prayer-card tradition, and what makes a small practice life-giving for decadesHow to safeguard against idolatry of place and trend-chasing — and why most "next steps" in church growth are really keeping up with the JonesesThe cautionary tale of trying to out–North Point North PointLectio divina, holy reading of the Church Fathers, and why Augustine on Genesis still has something to say to usCarey Nieuwhof's line that "churches in love with their mission will thrive; churches in love with their method will die"What the latest Barna and Pew numbers reveal about Gen Z, young men, and the surprising rise of Latin Rite Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Pentecostal worshipWhy high-demand, high-experience churches are growing — and what that says about what people are actually hungry forThe "manosphere" as a bad answer to a good question, and why men's ministry doesn't need to be complicated to matterHow Jonathan Haidt, The Anxious Generation, and a sober-from-network-news governor of Utah point toward spiritual practices for the common goodAnd one piece of fatherly advice for Jarrod's daughter Ruby — and a message in a time capsule for Peachtree Christian Church a hundred years from nowWhether you lead a congregation, sit in a pew, or just wonder how anything good survives the relentless churn of culture, this episode is an invitation to find the kernel — the thing actually worth carrying forward — and to let the rest get dressed up however the moment requires. Hashtags: #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #JarrodLongbons #AlanOWBarnes #TraditionedInnovation #AncientFuture #PeachtreeChristianChurch #Midtown #AtlantaChurches #LGregoryJones #RobertWebber #JohnHenryNewman #HolyEucharist #LectioDivina #ChurchFathers #SpiritualFormation #GenZAndChurch #MensMinistry #JonathanHaidt #AnxiousGeneration #ChurchGrowth #FaithAndCulture #ChristianPodcast #SpiritualPracticesForTheCommonGood #RootedButNotStuck

Theology lives differently in a pulpit than it does in a lecture hall. Dr. Steven Cone — author of An Ocean Vast of Blessing and Theology from the Great Tradition — joins Jarrod to talk about preaching the great tradition to a congregation, walking with people through beginning-of-life and end-of-life moments, and the slow, on-the-job work of becoming a pastor. A conversation about how the deep wells of Christian thought meet the daily work of ministry. #ComplexCreatures #PastorTheology #HigherEdInCrisis #LincolnChristianUniversity #RestorationMovement #PastoralMinistry #AcademicBurnout #CalledToPreach #FromProfessorToPastor #TheologyFromTheGreatTradition #ChurchOfChrist #FaithAndVocation #SeminaryLife #PastoralCare #ChristianLeadership

What if the church's discipleship problem isn't new — and the answer has been hiding in plain sight for two thousand years? In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with theologian and educator Dr. Alex Fogleman — Associate Dean for Special Programs and Assistant Professor of Theology at Trinity Anglican Seminary, founding director of the Catechesis Institute, and director of the Catechesis Task Force for the Anglican Church in North America — to explore his new book Making Disciples: Catechesis in History, Theology, and Practice (Eerdmans, 2025). Catechesis — from the Greek katēcheō, meaning to instruct or resound — isn't just a category of religious education. It's a whole way of forming people into a way of life. Not just knowing, but becoming. And in a world where nominal Christianity is everywhere but deep formation is rare, Alex argues this ancient practice is exactly what the church needs to recover. Together, Jarrod and Alex explore: Why catechesis is about becoming, not just knowing — and what we lose when we treat faith as information transferHow secularized contexts (like Vancouver, BC, where only 2% attend church) are actually forcing the church back to something essentialWhat the early church got right about the "bridge" between pagan and Christian culture — and how it applies todayWhy AI might be able to teach content, but will never be able to catechizeThe hearth versus central air — why formation is always relational, never merely digitalWhat it would look like for every church to take catechesis as seriously as worshipAlex's one-sentence definition of his own book says it all: catechesis is the basic but comprehensive instruction in what Christians believe, hope, and love. That phrase alone is worth the conversation. #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #AlexFogleman #MakingDisciples #Catechesis #SpiritualFormation #EarlyChurch #ChurchFathers #Discipleship #FaithAndLearning #TrinityAnglicanSeminary #ChristianPodcast #TheologyAndLife #RootedAndRenewed #AncientFaithNewLife #AnglicansOfInstagram

What if creativity isn't just something artists do — but something all of us are called to? In this special episode of Complex Creatures, Alan Barnes turns the tables and interviews Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons about a subject close to both of their hearts: creativity as a spiritual posture. Rooted in the conviction that we bear the image of a creative God, the conversation ranges from Jarrod's early-morning writing practice to the theology of Fred Rogers, from the flow state to the hard, unglamorous discipline of showing up before the ideas arrive. Together, Alan and Jarrod explore: What Jarrod has been writing — and why Mr. Rogers keeps showing up in a book about communicating the sacredHow the practices of writing, drawing, and making can become genuine forms of prayerThe flow state: what it is, where it comes from, and how to stop being precious about itWhy creativity requires a willingness to be wrong — and how that's actually a theological virtueThe difference between journaling and writing, and why it matters more than you thinkWhat our age of anxiety, algorithms, and authenticity demands of people who try to communicate sacred ideasWhether you make things for a living, dabble on weekends, or have convinced yourself you're "not creative," this episode is an invitation to reconsider — and maybe to get up at four in the morning and find out what's waiting for you there. Recommended reading: Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott · Patience with God by Tomáš Halík · Surprised by Jesus Again by Jason Byassee #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #CreativityAndFaith #SpiritualPractice #MadeToMake #ImageOfGod #FlowState #WritingAsSpiritualPractice #FredRogers #SacredCommunication #ChristianCreativity #ArtAndFaith #SpiritualFormation #ChristianPodcast #TheologyAndLife #PeachtreeChristianChurch

What does it mean to leave everything behind — your country, your career plans, your language — and build a life somewhere else? And what happens when that life is suddenly torn away? In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with his friend Jonathan "Boo" Powell — Executive Director of the Georgia Tech Christian Campus Fellowship (CCF) and a former missionary who spent 22 years in Berdyansk, southeastern Ukraine, before the war with Russia forced him and his family home. Boo's story is one of radical rootedness and repeated uprooting — from a Georgia Tech student who expected a career in business, to a missionary learning Russian in an immersive crash course with an unlikely teacher, to a man returning to America without a credit score and rediscovering his calling right back where it started. Together, Jarrod and Boo explore: How a mission trip to Juárez, Mexico sparked a life-changing callThe hard, beautiful years of learning language, culture, and belonging in a foreign landWhat struggling Ukrainian villages taught them about the raw, unadorned gospelThe grief of exile — and the unexpected renewal that followedHow God was already at work before the missionaries arrivedWhat a generation of Georgia Tech students is teaching him about faith, mission, and fireThis is a conversation about the courage it takes to follow a calling — and the grace it takes to follow it again. "I look up to the hills. Where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord." — Psalm 121 #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #MissionaryLife #UkraineMission #RootedAndRenewed #CampusMinistry #GeorgiaTech #GTCCF #FaithAndCalling #ChristianMission #CollegeMinistry #SpiritualFormation #CalledToGo #ChristianPodcast #FaithInAction #HomeComing

What would happen if we stopped reading the Bible alone—and started reading it with two thousand years of saints, mystics, and theologians by our side? In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with writer, pastor, and theologian Jason Byassee to explore his book Surprised by Jesus Again: Reading the Bible in Communion with the Saints. From the early church fathers to the Song of Solomon, from Mary's role as the first theologian to the dangerous comfort of hiding from God in your own church—this conversation is rich, playful, and profoundly challenging. Together, Jarrod and Jason explore: Why being "surprised" by Jesus requires letting go of what we think we already knowThe difference between reading Scripture for information and reading it for transformationHow God flirts, lures, and woos us through Scripture—and why that's not as strange as it soundsThe allegorical imagination of the early Church, and what Protestants lose when we ignore itThe global future of Christianity—from Indonesia to South Sudan—and what it means for the Church in the WestWhere hope lives in a world that's given up on itWhether you're a lifelong churchgoer, a curious skeptic, or someone who finds the Bible more complicated than inspiring, this conversation offers a way back in—rooted in the ancient, renewed for today. #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #SurprisedByJesusAgain #JasonByassee #BibleAndTradition #ChurchFathers #SpiritualFormation #FaithInASecularAge #RootedAndRenewed #ScriptureAndSaints #ChristianTheology #ReadingTheBible #AncientFaith #ChristianPodcast #TheologyAndLife #PeachtreeChristianChurch

“The Church isn’t dying—the voluntary association is.” What happens when the institutions that once carried faith begin to collapse? In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons reflects on church decline, secularity, and the unraveling of America’s voluntary association culture. Rather than lamenting loss, he invites listeners to imagine the Church not as an institution to be maintained, but as a movement shaped by shared practices, shared mission, and shared life. At the center of this vision is the Eucharist—not merely as ritual, but as a social and theological force that binds people together across difference, memory, and decline. This conversation explores loneliness, authenticity, belonging, and what it might mean for the Church to take its table into the world. A thoughtful reflection for anyone wrestling with faith, community, and what comes next. #ComplexCreatures#FaithInASeularAge#ChurchAndCulture#ChristianPodcast#EucharisticImagination#SpiritualCommunity#FaithAfterInstitutions#TheologyAndLife

Is the Enneagram just a personality test—or could it be a pathway to deeper faith? In this rich and heartfelt episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons speaks with Rev. Jamie Butcher—Presbyterian minister and certified Enneagram coach—about how this ancient tool offers more than labels. Together, they explore how the Enneagram can lead us from self-protection to self-giving, from pigeonholing to spiritual compassion, and into the very presence of God. Topics include: The Enneagram as a contemplative Christian practice Why Christians are drawn to typologies—and how to avoid the pitfalls How compassion begins with self-understanding Prayer postures, personality awareness, and spiritual growth Using the Enneagram in pastoral care, spiritual direction, and community life Whether you're new to the Enneagram or a longtime student, this conversation invites you to move beyond “what number are you?” into a deeper life of reflection, grace, and love. #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #EnneagramAndFaith #SpiritualFormation #ChristianContemplation #JamieButcher #EnneagramWisdom #BelovedNotBoxed #FaithAndPersonality #CompassionateLeadership #SpiritualDirection #TemplarPath #ChristianPodcast