Advertise on podcast: The Panel

Corey shares how he moved from marketing into coding, why he still keeps technical co-founders on some products, and how he thinks about balancing services, software, and content. The group also digs into AEO, paid ads, churn in productized services, and why manual customer research still matters. Timestamps:00:00 - Intro02:20 - Corey Haines and Conversion Factory04:33 - Does everyone still need a technical co-founder?06:21 - How Corey went from marketing to coding10:08 - TrueList, Magister, and Corey’s other products13:01 - Running several products instead of betting on one15:26 - Building a business around a personal brand17:33 - How AI changes testing ideas and building products20:58 - Automated testing across 30 repos24:50 - Spreading the risk across multiple products27:24 - Josh Pigford and the debate over focus31:31 - Why some products grow and then fade34:33 - What to do when growth stalls36:48 - SendFox, focus, and what counts as winning38:52 - Churn and sales challenges in productized services41:40 - Selling AI implementation and SEO services46:14 - The value of talking to people48:29 - What parts of marketing can you productize?50:26 - SaaS marketing has changed—and Google feels it52:52 - Which marketing channels should you try first?56:24 - Finding the first customers for a niche product59:14 - Learning how customers talk and buy01:03:04 - AEO results: more visibility, traffic, and booked calls01:05:24 - AEO beyond your own website01:08:04 - The work AI still can’t skip01:11:50 - Brian’s mix of ads, cold email, and experiments01:16:03 - Growth curves and finding the next marketing channel01:20:32 - Faster MVPs and choosing what to build01:22:28 - Products Brian actually wants to work on01:24:54 - Finding customers and problems worth solving YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Ruben’s comment on AI and marketingJosh Pigford’s new startupCorey Haines on GitHubMagister Marketing — AI Marketing AgentJason Cohen’s “Elephant in the Room”Brian Casel on selling ProductizeTim Soulo: “The only competitive advantage left is effort.”Conversion Factory — On-Demand Marketing for Tech CompaniesCorey Haines — Marketer, Builder, WriterMarketing Skills for Claude Code and AI AgentsTruelist — Email Validation PlatformMarc Lou on XCharleston AI — AI Engineering, Classes & Repair

Is DHH right in his prediction that handcrafted coding is done, is trying to "be the best" the best strategy, and can you skip the hard work and just do the easy parts of product launching and still find success? Chapters: (00:11) - Welcome to the Panel Podcast (03:04) - DHH's Flamethrower Keynote (09:07) - The End of Handcrafting Code (12:35) - Who Wants It the Most (16:08) - Marketing with AI and Manual Grind (24:56) - Being the Best in Your Category (35:49) - Product Decision Making in 2026 (47:46) - Sam Altman's Advice on Focus (54:01) - Risk and Opportunity in AI (01:00:33) - Building vs Acquiring Businesses (01:19:30) - The Independent Sponsor Model (01:33:16) - Staying in Motion and Shipping Links: DHH keynote at Rails WorldDerrick Reimer on finding business ideasRuben Gamez tweetOlly tweetMicroConf EuropeAngelListTinySeedAmpGrokMuseInstinctGrok BotElevenLabsReception.aiDocuSignFlywriteMimeoMiroEvernoteBending Spoons

We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web? Timestamps:00:00 - Intro03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature27:02 - Founders need a point of view, not just a new tool31:46 - PHP's culture keep Laravel grounded35:25 - Justin's Vegas Retreat45:10 - Introducing Jev, and how it's different from an LLM58:23 - Rosie, ChatGPT Live, and whether full-stack agents are any good62:16 - "Eat the pain" for your customers as a strategy77:41 - Aaron's Astra 3D office walkthrough demo81:11 - Are courses dead? Where dev education goes next YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Jev announcement postSyntax: WTF is Jev?Aaron's product - SoloAaron's 3D modeling with Astra90s PC game: Incredible MachineNew Builder Methods pageAaron FrancisIntroducing GPT-Live | OpenAITypeSafe AIFree AI Voice Generator & Voice Agents Platform | ElevenLabsCompare AI Models: Pricing, Context & Benchmarks | OpenRouter

Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder. Chapters: (00:10) - Welcome and Introduction (00:30) - Jason Cohen's Hidden Multipliers (06:46) - Growth Experiment Mode (11:06) - New Ad Formats and Street Interviews (20:05) - Unconventional Marketing Strategies (38:23) - Low Energy and Company of One (45:45) - Building Systems with AI Agents (59:45) - Twitter Story and Workshop Updates (01:10:13) - Spots.fm Marketplace Strategy (01:22:09) - Buying vs Selling a Business (01:31:33) - Separate Brands for Different Markets (01:38:01) - Diversification and Exit Multiples (01:41:11) - ARR vs EBITDA Valuation (01:44:30) - Closing and Feedback Mentioned in this episode: Hidden Multipliers: Jumpstart Growth With Your Existing Budget and Team by Jason CohenFind Your Carol | Skills from A Smart BearCome to Charleston AI for all of your AI needs (r/TrueAnon)OrbanAI — AI agents that run inside your systemsTim Aton (@Tim_Aton) on XCompany Of One: Why Staying Small Is the Next Big Thing for Business by Paul JarvisAndrew Warner (@AndrewWarner) on XWhat Are Orbs? - AmpSpots.fm — Sponsor independent creatorsKit: The Platform for Creators

Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products. Chapters: (00:10) - Welcome to The Panel (01:18) - Summer Ending and Fall Rush (04:28) - Motivation and Dissatisfaction (09:40) - Revenue Goal of One Million (12:54) - Patient Urgency Concept (21:11) - Focus on What Actually Matters (28:45) - Growing a Company of One (35:33) - Hiring for Customer Success (39:11) - Courses Versus Software Products (46:28) - Doing the Hardest Thing (57:57) - Personal Connections in Marketing (01:14:16) - Competitor Collapse and Lessons (01:19:32) - Brian's Product Strategy Mentioned in this episode: "I want $100 million""You can make it complicated, or you can hit the golf ball."Justin's episode: "Don't over-engineer it"Justin's drawing: "Focus on what matters (the little red box)"Ryan Carson: "How I manage 15 AI agents 24/7 as a solo founder"Brian's Mimeo product"When you bundle too much in your product, your positioning becomes vague"Freshbooks CEO started a secret company to compete with his existing product

What "new" value can we create with AI? Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about how we can be more creative and ambitious and build things we wouldn't have built before. We also chatted about Grok Bot and xAI's land grab (Cursor acquisition and the SuperGrok Heavy plan). Also... Brian broke up with Claude?! Timestamps:00:00 - Intro 03:34 - The sudden rise and appeal of Grokbot 11:49 - Claude fatigue and the shift toward chief-of-staff AI agents 14:55 - How product experience is replacing model quality in the AI race 18:09 - Cursor's speed advantage, pricing pain, and team switching costs 26:08 - Enterprise loyalty and why model quality will commoditize 43:44 - AI for autonomous entities, trust, and community integration 49:11 - Building AI-native vs. consumer vs. professional use cases 57:10 - Trust as the bottleneck in sensitive fields like personal finance 60:22 - Transistor's video launch, pricing model, and MCP integration 66:14 - Jordan's new capital deal and leveraging extra runway 72:12 - Customer success hiring and Builder Methods' non-developer expansion 90:15 - Wrap up YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Jesse Hanley – Marketer, developer, and creator.Introducing Grok Bot – SpaceXAI's latest release.Shaan Puri on AI Loyalty – A candid take on switching tools.Cursor – The top AI coding agent.Caleb Porzio's Work Notes – Why Cursor outpaces Codex.Amazon’s Anthropic Stake – IPO valuation insights.Polsia – AI that manages operations autonomously.Mostly Technical #145 – Exploring marketing as engineering.

Is there a potential SaaS pocalypse? How can we adapt to changes and leverage new models for growth? Jordan, Justin, and Brian explore the current state of the software market, private equity dynamics, and the impact of AI on valuations. Timestamps:00:00 Introduction02:01 Finding distribution is difficult on FB Marketplace and online12:05 The future of building software with AI and agent-first design16:07 Market entry strategies for new products19:57 Unbundling SaaS and the new software delivery models23:46 The role of internal tools and side projects28:03 The SaaS pocalypse32:00 SaaS valuations and market dynamics36:01 Designing simple interfaces with powerful backend features39:59 The evolving landscape of SaaS and market opportunities51:25 Opportunities in the current market1:03:00 Life updates YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Mimeo: Own your email marketing stackFlywrite | The writing app with a terminal built inLiveKit PlatformResendButtondown tiiny.host Make IPOs Great AgainTiny Anne Frank The Exhibition Visit the Chicago Museum of Ice CreamMxPxGoldfinger

How's your funnel doing? Jordan and Brian are joined by Henry Poydar to chat about integrating human and autonomous agents, building and testing product prototypes in days, not years, the importance of flexible, adaptive funnels, and debate the future of SaaS, unbundling, and the agent-first software paradigm.  Timestamps:YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: SteadyHeyRosyBuilder MethodsOpenRoutines.devClaudeFlywriteVantaDripBentoHelp Scout

What happens to the value of software when everyone can make software? Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to The Panel00:31 Brian’s Brighton Ruby trip03:12 Building FlyWrite in the car05:01 Why existing coding tools don’t work for writing07:20 What FlyWrite actually does11:37 Building version one with Fable16:04 Jordan’s weekend build and first AI-native workflow28:38 Claude Design and interactive prototyping36:41 AI, software supply, and productivity39:09 The Jeremy Giffin podcast episode48:55 What AI means for Transistor and hosting58:19 Google, Microsoft, Apple, and the AI distribution war63:28 Figma, design careers, and the white-flag mindset74:08 What happens to agencies and web designers81:05 Transition pain vs. long-term upside90:13 Becoming AI-native and where do displaced workers go? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Superconductorfaster.devConductorAICursorFlywriteRailwayBase44LovableWildbit Blog (Natalie Nagele)Harvey ROI CalculatorSpots.fmSpots (2018 archive)Product People shoutout (2013 archive)Claude DesignInvest Like the Best — Jeremy GiffonGal Shir on XChef hierarchy pyramidThe widening productivity-pay gap

Justin and Jordan talk about how Jordan made a change to their funnel and increased sign ups dramatically, improving team communication, conducting better employee reviews, and developing better workflows for project handoffs between employees when AI is being used. Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:45 Taking control of your funnel05:24 Why trust matters in e-commerce08:18 Optimizing the customer experience19:10 Doubling sign-ups23:08 Customer demand wins25:34 Putting the credit card upfront29:26 Customer demand and the funnel31:56 Question your assumptions35:00 Reviews, pay, and philosophy44:14 Surviving survival mode46:40 How we think about pay49:00 Motivation and career growth54:05 AI and developer ownership01:00:54 Keeping the quality bar high01:03:51 Building a culture of accountability YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Transistor.fmHeyRosyClaude AIVictor's Post on Market PullRyan CohenTony FadellCardhookThe Walt Disney Company | Acquired

If you're trying to fix your funnel, where do you start? And how much of an impact do we think Fable is going to have on AI pricing?  Timestamps:00:00 Intro03:27 Impact of AI and Market Dynamics06:24 Taking Control of Your Funnel17:12 The impact of Fable on AI Costs26:04 SpaceX IPO and Betting on Space42:56 Opportunities for SaaS Businesses in 2026 with Domain Expertise01:07:36 Allowances for kids works best in with communism YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Data SchoolKickbacks.ai - Get paid for waitingSpaceX IPO ProspectusFable AIAI sandwichAfter AutomationOpenAI Considers Drastic Price Cuts (WSJ)SpaceX stock jumps after record IPO, making Musk the first trillionaireSpaceX is asking for $1.75. That's ridiculous (but I'm giving them money anyway)Andrew McCalip

Justin's got a major life question for the podcast, Jordan's trying to not be angry, and Brian thinks he's cracked the video editing code. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction01:06 Justin's Big Question10:04 Personal Reflections on City Life13:05 Family Dynamics and Future Living Plans24:37 The Energy of New Beginnings30:22 The Wisdom of Solitude vs. Ambition38:58 Accelerating Growth and Optimization50:41 Navigating Advertising Challenges53:17 The Impact of Confidence on Communication01:01:58 Innovating Video Editing with AI01:08:00 Balancing Quality and Quantity in Content Creation01:14:44 The Human Cost of Rapid AI AdoptionYOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Do the Hard Thingvideo-useHyperFramesMediocre ideasBuilding Software is LearningTransistor Video Podcast Hosting

After figuring out how to stay in shape with exercise, Jordan and Brian wrestle with what each other's north star should be in their day to day work.  Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:19 Peptides and Supplements08:06 Gym vs Home Workouts14:02 Daily Walking17:01 Brian's Calorie Tracking21:40 The Importance of Optimization24:27 Jordan's Ad Spend Thoughts29:08 SEO and Email Marketing Automation33:58 Brian's trying to leverage AI to limit bottlenecks53:23 Balancing Urgency and Ambition55:52 Connecting Daily Tasks to Long-Term Goals01:03:29 Navigating Multiple North Stars YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Lose It! - Weight Loss That FitsHeyRosy.comBuilder MethodsClaude AIHermes Agent Platform

How is multiplayer being addressed in AI, should we scale humans or agents, and is every small business going to vibe code their own apps? With special guest Henry Poydar. Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to The Panel03:06 Business Updates05:53 Coordination Challenges in Teams with AI11:48 Trust and Accountability in Team Dynamics17:45 The Future of Team Structures20:30 Scaling with Agents vs. Traditional Teams25:48 The Future of Company Organization27:58 The Intersection of AI and Creativity36:02 Challenges in the Music Industry with AI40:32 Navigating the VC Landscape45:45 The Indie Entrepreneur Path48:20 Vertical Saas and tool building01:01:17 Weeknd plans and talking politics YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: SteadyHenry PoydarTinaFey on what it's really like to have a teenage daughterCharlie AIDevinHow I build agents that work the night shiftGranolaVibe-Coded AI 'Slop' Is Flooding the World With Potentially Dangerous Code—'Eventually It Will Catch Up to Us'

Are you feeling a mixture of excitement and burnout at the pace AI coding seems to be pushing you? Is it sustainable in the long run or do you worry about what you'll be like in 6 months time? Timestamps:00:00 Introduction03:22 Advertising Strategies and Funnels08:12 Jordan experiments with Partnership Ads and Organic Content Ads12:03 Transistor's Video Podcasting Platform Launch21:32 Brian's YouTube Channel Growth30:27 Understanding Customer Engagement and Sales Dynamics35:56 Navigating Pricing Changes in AI Tools01:02:36 The Impact of AI on Work Intensity and Burnout01:06:19 The Evolution of Product Development and Market Dynamics01:13:48 The New Normal: Speed, Pressure, and Success in Business YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Claude changes its pricingWrappers vs steamrollers (and who owns the customer)Hire creators to do your adsPost to all social platformsAI brain exhaustion + burnoutMatt Wensing: "Burnout happens when the reward no longer justifies the effort / perceived risk."Brian's new course: "Become the builder"The meme that took over Twitter this week