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Out Of Programme

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This podcast has
41 episodes
Language
English
Explicit
No
Date created
2025/01/20
Latest episode
2026/10/06
Average duration
47 min.
Release period
14 days

Description

The Out Of Programme (OOP) podcast shines a spotlight on clinicians who have ventured beyond the traditional path of clinical training to forge unique and unconventional careers. Hosted by Dr Jing Ouyang, this series delves into the diverse backgrounds, driving motivations and transformative moments that shaped their journeys outside the realm of medicine. Whether youโ€™re a clinician curious about life beyond the white coat or simply fascinated by stories of bold career reinvention, this podcast offers inspiring conversations and thought-provoking insights that go beyond the ordinary.

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Episode 41: Dr Shantanu Kundu on Founding a Mental Health Charity at 15, Becoming the First Episode 41: LTFT Foundation Doctor, and Building Innovation Inside Alder Hey.
2026/10/06
What happens when a 15-year-old starts a mental health blog to survive stigma, and a decade later is still running the national charity it became, while becoming the first LTFT foundation doctor in his hospital and building innovation inside Alder Hey? In this episode, we speak with Dr Shantanu Kundu, foundation doctor, Chief Executive of the Be Free Campaign, NHS Clinical Entrepreneur, and innovation consultant at Alder Hey Children's Hospital. ๐Ÿ“ Lived experience of youth mental health and stigma in an ethnic minority community, and how a teenage blog grew into Be Free ๐ŸŒฑ Scaling a youth-led charity from a ยฃ300 O2 seed grant into a national organisation spanning community delivery, campaigning, and commercial ventures ๐Ÿฅ Being the first person in his hospital to do a 60% foundation programme, and what the system still cannot flex around ๐Ÿ’ก Finding Alder Hey innovation (and Ian Hennessey) before he was even a doctor, and designing pathways that spread children's innovation beyond tertiary centres Shantanu's story is a masterclass in building from lived experience, refusing a single track, and making the NHS and charity worlds flex around the impact you want to have. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 40: Beating the Odds from Kenya to UK Medicine, Becoming a GP and Building Healthcare AI Agents at Antler
2026/09/22
What happens when one of 15,000 applicants wins a scholarship from Kenya to UCL Medicine โ€” then rebuilds her idea of โ€œscaleโ€ from the GP surgery to agentic AI? In this episode, we speak with Dr Sheliza Darvesh, GP, former Babylon clinical ops lead, and co-founder & COO of Conversico, building an agentic AI operating layer for healthcare (starting with a voice receptionist) as an Antler entrepreneur in residence. ๐Ÿ๏ธ Growing up on a Kenyan island in a single-parent home โ€” school fees from a community โ€œpot,โ€ then learning who had quietly paid all along๐ŸŽ“ Beating 15,000 applicants for the African Educational Trust Scholarship to study medicine at UCL โ€” and arriving with one suitcase, chickenpox scars, and a ruinous Heathrow black cab๐Ÿ“š Staying in the top 10% every year to keep the scholarship, walking Camden to UCL to save bus fares, and finding family in friendsโ€™ kitchens๐Ÿฅ Choosing GP for patient volume, then realising true scale meant helping more than one person every ten minutes โ€” into Babylon, Manual/Voi, and clinical ops๐Ÿค– Co-founding Conversico with her husband to free clinicians from fragmented admin โ€” and why Antler cared more about founderโ€“market fit than the pitch deckShelizaโ€™s story is a masterclass in adversity, kindness, and redesigning a medical career so impact โ€” and the freedom to give back โ€” can finally scale. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 39: Dr Hatim Abdulhussein on Becoming an AI Professor With No PhD, Setting Up the Topol Fellowship, and Leading a Health Innovation Network
2026/09/08
What happens when an "average medical student" co-founds the Topol Programme, becomes an AI professor without a PhD, and rises to run a health innovation network while still seeing patients every Friday? In this episode, we speak with Dr Hatim Abdulhussein, a GP who became CEO of Health Innovation Kent Surrey Sussex and Honorary Professor of Innovation and AI at the University of Surrey โ€” one of the UK's leading clinician-innovators working inside the system. โ€ข ๐Ÿง‘ How a foundation doctor in Bedford who "didn't think being an entrepreneur was an option" learned to make change from within the NHS โ€ข ๐ŸŽ“ Co-founding the Topol Programme for Digital Health Fellows โ€” the "gift of time" that's now run through six or seven cohorts of digital health leaders โ€ข ๐Ÿค– Getting into AI before it was cool โ€” building the subject-matter expertise that let him advise ministers before the ChatGPT explosion โ€ข ๐Ÿ›๏ธ Why he chose to change the NHS from within rather than leave it, and the value of an entrepreneurial mindset inside organisations โ€ข ๐ŸŽ“ Becoming an Honorary Professor of Innovation and AI without a PhD โ€” the clinical teaching track and the power of "say yes and learn by doing" โ€ข ๐Ÿฅ Rising from Medical Director to CEO of a Health Innovation Network โ€” and why he still protects his Friday GP clinic Hatim's story is a masterclass in experiential leadership โ€” building a portfolio career on the clinical teaching track, saying yes to opportunity, and proving you don't need to leave the NHS to have a national impact. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 38: Dr David Montgomery on Pharmaceutical Medicine, Running for Parliament, and the Freedom of Founding His Own Consultancy
2026/08/25
What happens when a surgical trainee and former parliamentary candidate pivots into pharmaceutical medicine, rises to global VP, and then walks away to found his own consultancy on his own terms? In this episode, we speak with Dr David Montgomery, a consultant in pharmaceutical medicine, former global VP at Pfizer, and co-founder of PM Life Sciences, a pharmaceutical advisory firm and consultancy. โ€ข ๐Ÿ—๏ธ The freedom of founding his own consultancy โ€” starting from scratch and the liberation of building something entirely his own โ€ข ๐Ÿ”ฌ Leaving surgery after eight years during the chaos of modernising medical careers โ€ข ๐Ÿš€ The meteoric rise โ€” medical director within 2.5 years of leaving medicine, global VP before 40 โ€” and the candour about the VP role he "didn't nail" โ€ข ๐Ÿ›๏ธ Running as a Conservative parliamentary candidate in the bruising 2015 election, and the politics of healthcare learned up close โ€ข ๐Ÿ’ผ Why the world outside medicine is far less meritocratic โ€” and what "saying yes even when terrifying" actually looks like David's story is a candid, unvarnished look at navigating pharma, politics and career reinvention โ€” and the freedom that comes from building something your own. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 37: Dr Patrick Doyle on Surviving Everest, Bootstrapping L2P Into a Leading NHS Platform, and Life After Acquisition
2026/08/11
What happens when a South African anaesthetist survives cerebral oedema on Everest, bootstraps an NHS appraisal platform with no external funding, and sells it to one of the UK's fastest-growing health tech companies? In this episode, we speak with Dr Patrick Doyle, a consultant anaesthetist who founded L2P โ€” the leading platform for job planning, appraisals and revalidation โ€” which was acquired by Patchwork Health after 15 years of growth. ๐Ÿ”๏ธ Surviving Everest โ€” getting cerebral oedema at Camp 3, being unconscious overnight, and walking down the next day before the team even started the clinical research๐Ÿ’ผ How a "pain point" โ€” endlessly emailing regulatory paperwork to different organisations โ€” became L2P, born in 2009 and initially 10 years ahead of the market๐Ÿš€ Bootstrapping the whole way โ€” bank loans, a mortgage extension and a bounce-back loan instead of VC, and watching every single penny๐Ÿ” Life after acquisition โ€” handing over the mundane stuff, getting back to research, and writing up his Everest paper with AI in half an hourPatrick's story is a masterclass in bootstrapping a niche NHS product to a successful exit โ€” and knowing when the time is right to hand it over. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 36: Dr Nick Appelbaum on How Lord Darzi Changed His Career, Building the First Machine-Readable BNF, and Why Academic Projects Die Without Commercial Infrastructure
2026/07/29
What happens when a South African surgeon gets plucked out by Lord Darzi, builds the first machine-readable BNF, and spins a company out of Imperial that reduces prescribing errors by 83%? In this episode, we speak with Dr Nick Appelbaum, a surgeon turned entrepreneur who went from inventing spreadsheet-based prescribing safety tools in South Africa to completing a PhD with Lord Ara Darzi at Imperial, leading clinical research at the Helix Centre, and founding Dosium โ€” a company now integrating the BNF into NHS prescribing systems. ๐Ÿ”ฌ How a "self-help program that grew out of hand" โ€” inventing medication safety tools in South Africa's trauma centres โ€” landed him a meeting with Lord Darzi ๐Ÿ›๏ธ Why Lord Darzi laughed at his plan to do an immunology PhD at Oxford and instead put him on the 10th floor at St Mary's to build something real ๐Ÿ“š The seven-year journey to create the first machine-readable British National Formulary, working with the Royal Pharmaceutical Society ๐Ÿฅ Founding Dosium and integrating the BNF into NHS electronic prescribing โ€” reducing the odds of a medication error by 83% across deployed trusts ๐Ÿ’ก Why "academic projects die without putting the infrastructure in place upfront" โ€” and how the NIHR I4I grant forced the spinout decision ๐ŸŽฏ The advice he wishes he'd had earlier: "find the suits, speak to the CFO, validate the economic proposition early โ€” don't leave it to the last minute" Nick's story is a masterclass in turning a clinical frustration into a national infrastructure play, with the right mentorship and institutional backing. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 35: Cosima Gretton on Leaving Medicine for Silicon Valley, Why Product Thinking Is the Opposite of Medical Training, and Scaling the UK's Biggest Health Research Programme
2026/07/14
What happens when a doctor trained in experimental psychology leaves medicine in F2, builds products in Silicon Valley, runs a ยฃ10M/day COVID testing programme, and becomes Chief Product Officer of the UK's largest health research study? In this episode, we speak with Dr Cosima Gretton, a medical doctor who left clinical practice to pursue product management in the US, served as Deputy Director at NHS Test & Trace during the pandemic, and is now Chief Product Officer at Our Future Health โ€” a research programme that has recruited over 2.5 million participants across the UK. โ€ข ๐Ÿง  Why studying human factors design and cross-modal integration at Oxford made her see clinical systems as fundamentally flawed โ€” and why she couldn't unsee it โ€ข ๐ŸŽจ Founding AXNS Collective as a medical student โ€” bringing together artists, neuroscientists, and an LSD research project at Imperial College London โ€ข ๐ŸŒ‰ How a friend's persistent invitation to apply for Singularity University in Silicon Valley changed the entire trajectory of her career โ€ข ๐Ÿฆ  Leading LAMP testing at NHS Test & Trace โ€” the pressure of a 10-million-tests-per-day Christmas target and what it's like when government actually works at startup pace โ€ข ๐Ÿ“Š Becoming CPO at Our Future Health and building the infrastructure to recontact 2.5 million participants for clinical research โ€” and return their data back to them Cosima's story is a rare window into what happens when a clinician fully commits to the product discipline โ€” and why the two mindsets are harder to reconcile than most people think. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 34: Dr Alastair Darwood on Selling a Startup in FY1, Licensing Medical Device IP Instead of Building Companies, and Why He Never Runs the Businesses He Creates
2026/06/30
What happens when a medical student sells a surgical robotics startup before finishing FY1 โ€” and then spends the next decade inventing devices he deliberately never runs? In this episode, we speak with Dr Alastair Darwood, a medical doctor with a bioengineering PhD who has built a career as an inventor and entrepreneur across medical devices, consumer hardware, and cycling technology. From orthopaedic robotics to analgesic masks to e-bikes, Alastair's playbook is always the same: invent, validate, license โ€” then move on to the next problem. โ€ข ๐Ÿ”ฌ How he founded Prometheus Surgical as a medical student, raised ยฃ170k, and sold it to De Souter Medical in FY1 โ€” the robot is now in use on patients as the Solito โ€ข ๐Ÿซ Building a low-cost ventilator during COVID with Red Bull Advanced Technologies โ€” and why the project was shut down just as it started working โ€ข ๐Ÿšด Co-founding Scarpa, an e-bike electrification company with ยฃ14M raised and products now stocked in 70 UK shops โ€” without touching the business side โ€ข ๐Ÿ˜ท Licensing an analgesic mask to Intersurgical that is currently in clinical trials at St Mary's โ€” patient-controlled inhalational anaesthesia for procedures that don't need a GA โ€ข ๐Ÿค– Why AI has turned invention into Lego bricks โ€” and how a project that would have taken a year now takes three weeks Alastair's story is a masterclass in finding your unfair advantage, building a playbook around it, and having the discipline to hand everything else to someone else. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 33: Dr Guy Northover on Leading CAMHS Digital Transformation, Managing Conflict of Interest as a Clinician-Founder, and Why the NHS Needs Senior Leaders to Start Companies
2026/06/16
What happens when a Consultant Psychiatrist, NHS Digital Exemplar leader, and GIRFT national lead decides the only way to truly fix children's mental health services is to leave the NHS and build an AI startup? In this episode, we speak with Dr Guy Northover, Consultant in Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, Chief Clinical Information Officer at Berkshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust, and co-founder of Anathem โ€” an AI company that has reduced frontline mental health admin burden by 61%. ๐Ÿš— Why he quit A&E, bought a Land Rover, and drove to Ghana to work out what he actually wanted from medicine ๐Ÿฅ How Berkshire Healthcare became one of only seven mental health trusts to achieve Global Digital Exemplar status โ€” and was already COVID-ready before the pandemic hit ๐Ÿ“Š His work as GIRFT National Clinical Lead for CAMHS, and how data alone helped halve the number of children admitted to inpatient units nationwide ๐Ÿค– Co-founding Anathem with a chance conversation at a children's hockey match โ€” and why a 61% reduction in admin burden is changing whether clinicians stay or leave the NHS โš–๏ธ The uncomfortable reality of managing conflict of interest as a senior NHS leader running a startup in your own specialty โ€” and why it's worth navigating anyway ๐Ÿ’ก Why senior clinicians make the best founders โ€” and how vibe coding with Lovable has made him a one-man product team Guy's story is a compelling case for why the NHS needs its most experienced leaders to take the entrepreneurial leap โ€” not despite their seniority, but because of it. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 32: Dr Meenakshi Jhala on Why Clinicians Make the Best Investors, Building a Clinician-Led Angel Syndicate, and How to Break Into Healthcare VC
2026/06/02
What happens when a GP trainee with zero finance knowledge decides to break into healthcare VC โ€” and ends up co-founding a clinician-led angel syndicate? In this episode, we speak with Dr Meenakshi Jhala, NIHR Academic Clinical Fellow at King's College London, Chief of Staff at Syntax, and co-founder of Tiny Ventures and DX Capital โ€” a clinician-led angel syndicate dedicated to funding the innovations healthcare actually needs. โ€ข ๐Ÿฉบ Why guideline-driven medicine felt like being a tomato in a greenhouse โ€” and what made her look beyond clinical training โ€ข ๐Ÿ“ˆ How she broke into healthcare VC as a fifth-year medical student with no finance background, conducting due diligence at Rise Asset Management โ€ข ๐Ÿค The relationship-building philosophy that unlocked every role she's ever had โ€” and why 100% of her work has come through connections โ€ข ๐Ÿš€ Building Tiny Ventures as an accelerator for aspiring investors and launching DX Capital to fund what clinicians know actually matters โ€ข ๐Ÿง  Why doctors can't just be badge collectors โ€” and the difference between execution and ambition โ€ข ๐Ÿ’ก How she balances clinical practice, research, a startup, and an angel syndicate without attaching emotion to any of it Meenakshi's story is a masterclass in curiosity, execution, and building a career that's genuinely yours โ€” not the one the system designed for you. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 31: Dr Dom Pimenta on Why NHS IT Systems Fail, Building AI That Actually Helps Clinicians, and the Gap Between Innovation and Implementation
2026/05/19
What happens when a cardiologist realises NHS IT is failing patients โ€” and decides to build an AI clinician that actually listens? In this episode, we speak with Dr Dom Pimenta, a former NHS cardiologist who left clinical practice to co-found Tortus AI, an intelligent ambient voice interface for clinicians backed by Entrepreneur First and Khosla Ventures. ๐Ÿฅ Why Dom's Catholic upbringing and childhood obsession with death led him to medicine โ€” and why he eventually left ๐Ÿง  The frustration of watching NHS IT systems fail clinicians and patients, and the moment he decided to build something better ๐Ÿ”ง How Entrepreneur First helped him pivot from doctor to founder, and the reality of raising venture capital as a clinician โš–๏ธ The ethics of AI in healthcare โ€” why "human-in-the-loop" matters and what Dom learned from deploying AI in live clinical environments ๐Ÿ“ˆ What Tortus AI actually does, how it works, and why ambient voice interfaces might be the future of clinical documentation ๐ŸŽฏ Dom's advice for clinicians considering the leap into healthtech entrepreneurship โ€” and what he'd do differently Dom's story is a candid exploration of what it takes to leave a secure clinical career, bet on yourself, and build technology that might actually fix the system you left behind. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 30: Dr Rishi Das-Gupta on the journey to becoming an NHS Trust Chief Innovation Officer and Scaling System Change Across South London
2026/05/05
What happens when a doctor spends a decade at McKinsey, returns to the NHS, and creates a Chief Innovation Officer role from scratch? In this episode, we speak with Dr Rishi Das-Gupta, former Chief Innovation Officer at Royal Brompton Hospital and now CEO of Health Innovation Network South London and DigitalHealth.London. He shares how he went from covering the whole hospital overnight as a junior doctor to reshaping how the NHS adopts technology at scale. โ€ข ๐Ÿฅ The one-in-four on-call rota that showed him what the NHS was getting wrong โ€ข ๐Ÿงฎ Why he left medicine for McKinsey โ€” and why two years became ten โ€ข ๐Ÿง  Building a US healthcare practice and lessons from data-rich industries โ€ข ๐Ÿ”ง Returning to the NHS after a decade away and creating a Chief Innovation Officer role โ€ข โš–๏ธ Why implementation beats strategy โ€” and making change happen inside hospital systems โ€ข ๐Ÿ“ˆ The future of NHS digital transformation and why he's optimistic about what's next Rishi's story is a masterclass in leaving medicine, gaining industry perspective, and returning to transform the system from within. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 29: Dr James Somauroo on a Near-Miss ยฃ40M Fund, Why Doctors Make Better Marketers, and Building SomX with His Wife
2026/04/21
What if the path to your true calling isn't through following expectations, but through recognising where your real talents lie? In this episode, we speak with Dr James Somauroo, former anaesthetist turned health tech entrepreneur, who transformed his realisation that he was "better at fixing the system than treating patients" into a remarkable career building the infrastructure for health innovation. โ€ข ๐Ÿ‘จโ€โš•๏ธ From immigrant family expectations to discovering his true strengths lay elsewhere โ€ข ๐Ÿ›๏ธ The Bruce Keough Fellowship and co-founding the Clinical Entrepreneur Programme โ€ข ๐Ÿš€ Leading Digital Health London Accelerator and running his own health tech accelerator โ€ข ๐Ÿ’ฐ The ยฃ40M fund that almost wasโ€”lessons from a deal undone by COVID โ€ข ๐ŸŽ™๏ธ Building SomX from scratch with his wife Jess, bootstrapped to success โ€ข ๐Ÿ’ก Why clinicians should seek purpose, not just "any port in a storm" James's journey from reluctant doctor to communications agency CEO reveals how embracing your authentic skillsโ€”even when they defy expectationsโ€”can lead to extraordinary impact. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 28: Dr Farzana Rahman on Building a Radiologist-Led Team, Why Junior Doctors Thrive in Startups, and Hexarad's Series B Growth
2026/04/07
What happens when four radiologists decide to build a health tech company while still working clinically โ€“ and end up raising Series B funding while hiring junior doctors into non-clinical roles? In this episode, we speak with Dr Farzana Rahman, a consultant radiologist and CEO of Hexarad, a technology and services company that helps hospitals deliver faster and more efficient radiology reporting. Her journey reveals how clinician founders think differently about scaling, hiring, and the future of health tech in the UK. ๐Ÿฅ The path from consultant radiologist to startup founder โ€“ without a business background ๐Ÿ’ป Why four radiologists founding a company together was never really a question of who'd be CEO ๐Ÿง  The unique qualities junior doctors bring to startups (and why tech companies need them) ๐Ÿš€ Building Hexarad as a side project, then making the leap to full-time founder โš–๏ธ Scaling a Series B company with a radiologistโ€“led executive team โ€“ and the challenges of health tech in the UK ๐Ÿค Radical candour, coaching, and building a culture where people aren't afraid to ask for help Farzana's story reveals how lived clinical experience becomes an unfair advantage in building for healthcare โ€“ and why the best startup founders might just be the ones who've already thrived under pressure. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Episode 27: Dr Paul Jewell on Teaching Himself Code, Taking a "Grave Mistake" Career Break, and Building AI Tools for Clinicians
2026/03/24
What happens when a burned-out registrar ignores consultant warnings and teaches himself codeโ€”then builds AI tools that bridge clinical care and startup innovation? In this episode, we speak with Dr Paul Jewell, a medical doctor and health tech entrepreneur who co-founded Assuric, a compliance platform for digital health companies, whilst continuing to work as a locum clinician. ๐Ÿฅ The family legacy of medicine and why Paul initially pursued it โ€” despite a growing itch for technology ๐Ÿ’ป Learning to code on exhausted NHS shifts: the frustration that sparked his pivot ๐Ÿง  The NG tube AI project that never was โ€” and how competing priorities taught him about focus ๐Ÿ”ง Building hospital apps that solve real clinical problems, from guideline access to diagnostic support โš ๏ธ The "grave mistake" warning from consultants โ€” and why Paul took the career break anyway ๐Ÿš€ Co-founding Assuric and staying clinically active: why doctors make better health tech founders Paul's story reveals how sometimes the moves your mentors warn against lead to your best work โ€” and why lived clinical experience is an unfair advantage in building for healthcare. Follow us on: ๐Ÿ—ž Substack ๐Ÿ’ผ LinkedIn โ–ถ YouTube ๐ŸŽง Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

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