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Krisserin and Kelton are both trying to figure out how to write when the writing routine stops working. Kelton is deep in structural edits and considering sending Krisserin the first four chapters of her rom-com for a gut check, while Krisserin abandons the fantasy of a perfect morning writing practice and manages to get 1,200 words down wherever she can. They talk about writing dialogue, learning from Patricia Lockwood’s Priestdaddy, looming MFA craft essays, and the small miracle of having writer friends who will send your book to their agents. Then journalist and author Mimi Montgomery joins to talk about her debut novel, Murder Bites, and the extremely non-linear path it took to publication. Mimi started writing the book around 30, squeezing it in before work and on weekends, and eventually queried an agent who loved her voice and line-level writing but delivered one fairly significant piece of feedback: the plot was basically nonexistent. Mimi explains how an outline of what the book could become got her signed, why rebuilding a murder mystery after you’ve already written it is not a process she’d recommend, and how another major revision during submission finally led to a book deal. They also get into writing with an eight-month-old and a full-time job, the usefulness (and emotional devastation) of reading your submission rejections, what Mimi learned from Carl Hiaasen, and why trying to manufacture the perfect high-concept hook can make you lose sight of the thing you actually control: your own weirdness and point of view. Plus: bougie dog bars, Kevin Wilson’s legendary Airbnb writing method, whether anyone can actually justify a $3,000 writing retreat, and the realization that your husband’s hobby may, in fact, be supporting your writing career. Learn more about Mimi Montgomery: Website: mimimontgomerywriter.com Instagram: @mimi_montgomery Substack: Kind of a Lot Her novel Murder Bites is available now wherever books are sold! Books Mentioned in this Episode: Murder Bites by Mimi Montgomery Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash Battleborn by Claire Vaye Watkins Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson Understory by Chloe Benjamin Alan Opts Out by Courtney Maum Rabbit Cake by Annie Hartnett Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton check in on a week that went sideways for one of them and sideways-but-productive for the other. Kelton's spaghetti draft pushes her timeline out a month, while Krisserin logs 4,000 words and a new craft essay on LeAnne Howe's Savage Conversations for her IAIA MFA. Then they're joined by Becca Freeman, author of The Christmas Orphans Club, the voice behind the Book Enthusiast newsletter, and co-host of Bad on Paper, for a conversation about what it takes to write the second book. Becca talks about becoming a writer after years as a lifelong reader, how she spent her first year and a half of drafting telling herself it was "just for me," and how her podcast and platform led to an agent outside the traditional query process. She gets candid about Back Where We Started, a dual-timeline second chance romance she had to rip down to the studs after early feedback, why she thought she'd be a "book-a-year author," and what she learned about ease versus quality. We also get into turning a newsletter into a paid tier, choosing the ages of your characters, reading while you write, and why there is no playbook (even for the people who've interviewed hundreds of authors). Plus: Becca's dream of a TV writer's room, three books she can't stop recommending, a writing exercise that asks you to pan and praise yourself, and Krisserin on why romance novels used to be sold in grocery stores. Learn more about Becca Freeman: Substack: beccafreeman.substack.com (Book Enthusiast) Instagram: @beccamfreeman Podcast: Bad on Paper Back Where We Started (out October 13): signed pre-orders through The Ripped Bodice Website: beccafreeman.net Books Mentioned in this Episode: The Christmas Orphans Club by Becca Freeman Back Where We Started by Becca Freeman Understory by Chloe Benjamin The Force of Such Beauty by Barbara Bourland One and Only by Maureen Goo People We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry The Idea of You by Robinne Lee Alan Opts Out by Courtney Maum Take Me With You by Steven Rowley You Made a Fool of Death With Your Beauty by Akwaeke Emezi Tom Lake by Ann Patchett State of Wonder by Ann Patchett Such a Bad Influence by Olivia Muenter Funny You Should Ask by Elissa Sussman Savage Conversations by LeAnne Howe Credence by Penelope Douglas Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood Float Plan by Trish Doller The Lost Journals of Sacajewea by Debra Magpie Earling Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton crossed 78,000 words this week and has officially retired the word-count goal in favor of structural editing, while Krisserin wrapped a craft essay for her IAIA mentor and is bracing for a stack of looming MFA deadlines. Both hosts admit the season is already busy — school fundraiser season, novel revisions, and the general chaos of trying to write while parenting — but they're feeling good. Then comedy writer and teacher Caitlin Kunkel joins to talk about her new book, Inside Jokes: A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers, co-written with Elissa Bassist. Caitlin breaks down comedy as a learnable, technical skill: how to spot a "confident idiot," why beginning writers bury their best joke in the middle of a sentence, and how "benign violation theory" explains why some jokes land and others don't. She traces her own path from drama-school seriousness to satire at The Second City, talks about baking comedy into a story's premise (Kevin Wilson's Nothing to See Here, Hilary Leichter's Temporary), and digs into how humor differs across generations, platforms, and audiences. The conversation ranges from Patricia Lockwood's physical comedy to the ethics of joking about self-harm to why farts are, categorically, funny. Krisserin and Kelton close out with their goals for the week — five chapters of edits for Kelton, 2,500 words and another craft essay for Krisserin — plus a listener book recommendation to add to the TBR pile. PRE-ORDER Inside Jokes, A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers by Caitlin Kunkle and Elissa Bassist, available October 20, 2026. Follow Caitlin: https://caitlinkunkel.com/ Instagram: @kunkeltron Books Mentioned in this episode: Inside Jokes: A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers by Caitlin Kunkel & Elissa Bassist New Erotica for Feminists: Satirical Fantasies of Love, Lust, and Equal Pay by Caitlin Kunkel Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson Temporary by Hilary Leichter A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole My Sister, the Serial Killer by Oyinkan Braithwaite Big Swiss by Jen Beagin Sky Daddy by Kate Folk Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash Hollow Bones by Jodi Picoult Float Plan by Trish Doller The Lost Journals of Sacagawea by Debra Magpie Earling Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are back for Season 3 and this summer, one of them actually wrote a book. Kelton hit 66,000 words on her rom-com after finally abandoning her identity as a "pantser" and writing from a full outline for the first time. Krisserin did not write a novel. She'll tell you exactly why. Instead, Krisserin spent six of eight summer weeks away from her desk — an MFA residency at the Institute of American Indian Arts, a 20th-anniversary trip to Vancouver and Victoria, two weeks in Portland and two weeks in Japan — and quietly began a new auto-fictional, historical project after officially parting ways with her literary agent this spring. It's the kind of summer that makes their European listener's advice to "slow down and do less" land a little differently. They talk honestly about why the agent split happened, the particular exhaustion of a summer with no rest in it, and the very different ways outlining has recently rewired Kelton's drafting process. Plus: rom-com craft talk, a debate about whether Princess Donut is safe, and an open call for anyone with boat knowledge who wants to be an alpha reader. Season 3 is officially underway — and they're looking for debut authors to feature. If that's you, or you know someone, get in touch. Books mentioned in this episode: Battleborn by Claire Vaye Watkins Dungeon Crawler Carl series by Matt Dinniman Nora Goes Off Script and Same Time Next Summer by Annabelle Monaghan Booby Moon: A Weaning Book for Toddlers, Creating Magic, Wonder, and Ritual for a More Joyful Experience for All by Yvette Reid, illustrated by Camilo Zapeta Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Season two is officially in the books 🎉 This week, we’re doing something a little different: opening up the listener survey and sharing what surprised us, what made us laugh, what made us rethink things, and what we’re taking into season three. We get into: The biggest takeaways from your survey responsesWho’s actually listening (writers… and surprisingly, a lot of non-writers)The topics you want more of next season (writer burnout, mental health, money, motherhood, revision, and creative sustainability)What worked—and didn’t—with guest episodesDream guests and future episode ideasHow writers actually pay the billsAccountability partners, writing communities, and whether we should finally start a Pen Pals SlackWhat it means to pursue creative goals when life keeps happeningWe also reflect on feedback we received this season, talk about how we think about criticism and community, and share what we’re excited to experiment with next. Thank you for listening, emailing, sharing episodes, and spending another season with us. Whether you’re drafting your novel, revising, dreaming about starting, or just here for two friends trying to make something meaningful while juggling real life—we’re so glad you’re here. See you in season three ❤️ Mentioned in this episode: "real eyes realize real lies: on Yesteryear and selling out" by Haley at Brain Stew on Substack. WcS1rs5om7K5v2FfkLxW Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton brings on one of her favorite outdoor writers: Heather Hansman, award-winning journalist, contributing editor at Outside Magazine, and author of Downriver and Powder Days. Heather's newest book, Fierce Country, uncovers the stories of three women — Grand Canyon guide Georgie White, environmental philosopher Dolores LaChapelle, and wilderness guide Anne LaBastille — who shaped how we think about public land, conservation, and who gets to feel at home in the outdoors. Their stories were largely ignored. Heather spent years in archives fixing that. The conversation covers what it actually takes to build a freelance writing career in the outdoor space (grindier than it looks), how Heather knew Fierce Country was a book and not just a great magazine piece, what it was like to report on women who left no living children and whose archives were sitting in a stranger's spare room, and why she thinks the key to pitching is making the editor's job as easy as possible. She also talks about her morning commute ritual, Ann Friedman's advice to "kiss sideways," and why she initially resisted the idea of writing about women at all. Plus: Kelton and Krisserin close out the season with listener shoutouts, survey news, and summer goals — including Kelton's Caribbean rom-com that plotted itself out in one feverish afternoon. Books Mentioned in this Episode: Powder Days: Ski Bums, Ski Towns, and the Future of Chasing Snow by Heather Hansman Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West by Heather Hansman London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe Horses by Jake Skeets  Daytime Moon by Kerri Schlottman Funny You Should Ask by Elissa Sussman  Off Campus Series by Elle Kennedy   Follow Heather: Website: heatherhansman.com Instagram: @hhansman Pre-order Fierce Country at your local indie bookstore or Bookshop.org — pub date July 14, 2026 📋 WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU! Pen Pals has a listener survey and we need your feedback to make the show even better. Fill it out at: https://form.typeform.com/to/kIosWT3L — it takes just a few minutes and means the world to us. Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

📋 WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU! Pen Pals has a listener survey and we need your feedback to make the show even better. Fill it out at: https://form.typeform.com/to/kIosWT3L — it takes just a few minutes and means the world to us. In this late-season check-in, Krisserin and Kelton answer a listener letter from Paige, a new mom asking whether to return to her pandemic-era novel or start one of her shiny new ideas. Their answer surprises even them — and leads to an honest conversation about burnout, creative momentum, and how to use stolen writing time when life refuses to pause. Plus: Dungeon Crawler Carl, and the listener survey you really should fill out. Books mentioned in this episode: - Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman - Nora Goes Off Script by Annabelle Monaghan - Unstuck by Ramona Ausubel  - The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss - The Easter Parade by Richard Yates - Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are running on fumes — sleep-deprived, burned out, and staring down a summer deadline that feels impossible. Enter Amanda Fletcher: writer, breathwork practitioner, PEN Center USA Emerging Voices fellow, and one of the most magnetic people in the Los Angeles literary community. Amanda shares her winding path from born storyteller to mathlete to kinesiology major, and the losses that knocked her off course — including her mother's death by suicide when Amanda was 24. What followed was over a decade of addiction, a broken neck, and eventually the writing classes and recovery community that brought her back to the page. Amanda explains how she discovered breathwork in early sobriety, why she believes our stories are imprinted on our nervous systems, and how the same limiting beliefs that block our creativity can be unlocked through intentional breathing. She guides listeners through a simple breathwork exercise they can use before a writing session, and makes the case that getting unstuck as a writer might start with getting out of your head and into your body. Follow Amanda: Instagram: @theamandafletcher Email: [email protected] Website: amandafletcher.me Amanda's upcoming virtual breathwork sessions: Tuesday, June 2 at 6pm PT Saturday, June 6 at 8am PT Saturday, June 20 at 8am PT Saturday, June 27 at 10am PT Tuesday, June 30 at 6pm PT Books Mentioned in this Episode: "The Ogress and the Orphans" by Kelly Barnhill  "Piranesi" by Susanna Clarke  "White Oleander" by Janet Fitch  "The War of Art" by Steven Pressfield  "A Million Little Pieces" by James Frey  "Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter" by Heather Fawcett Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin checks in from a Kansas City hotel room fresh off an unexpected ER visit in St. Louis — chest pains, a CT scan, and a lot of unanswered questions — while Kelton battles a household plague of sickness, broken blow-dryers, and postpartum burnout. The two trade brutally honest book reviews: Krisserin DNFs the buzzy bestseller Yesteryear (great concept, rough execution), while Kelton grinds through the literary sci-fi of The Other Valley and falls head over heels for Heather Fawcett's Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter. They dig into what makes good writing actually good — from research depth to character arcs to the controversial no-quotation-marks device — and commiserate over nepo babies in Hollywood, the guilt of not writing, and the importance of just taking care of yourself when life is beating you up. This week's goals: a spa treatment in Vegas and some middle grade fiction in the mountains. Books Mentioned in this episode: "Yesteryear" by Caro Claire Burke "The Other Valley" by Scott Alexander Howard "Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter" by Heather Fawcett "Piranesi" by Susanna Clarke "Dungeon Crawler Carl" by Matt Matt Dinniman "The Ogress and the Orphans" by Kelly Barnhill "The Bear and the Nightingale" by Katherine Arden Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This week on Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton sit down with debut novelist Alli Hoff Kosik to discuss her buzzy new novel, Too Blessed to Stress — a sharp, funny, and unexpectedly tender story about Christian influencers, megachurch culture, and the complicated women behind perfectly curated feeds. Alli shares how a pandemic-era fascination with influencer culture inspired the book, why she wanted to approach her characters with empathy instead of judgment, and how social media, capitalism, faith, and performance intersect online. They also discuss writing motherhood into real life, balancing creativity with burnout, MFA programs, multiple POV novels, and the challenge of building a writing life while raising small children. Plus: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives comparisons, parasocial internet rabbit holes, writing routines, podcasting, and whether Krisserin and Kelton actually sound the same. Books Mentioned in This Episode The Other Valley by Scott Alexander Howard The Giver by Lois Lowry Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid Come and Get It by Kiley Reid Maame by Jessica George Love by the Book by Jessica George Confessions of a Shopaholic by Sophie Kinsella Long Bright River by Liz Moore Nightshade by Eli Raphael Find Alli Hoff Kosik Website: Alli Hoff Kosik Official Website Instagram: @allihoffkosik Substack: https://allihoffkosik.substack.com/ Podcast: Is This a Thing? with Abby Wolfe Buy Too Blessed to Stress on Bookshop.org Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are running on fumes—and they're honest about it. Both hosts arrive at this week's accountability check-in feeling ragged: Krisserin is limping toward summer with a fried brain and a work trip on the horizon; Kelton is two years postpartum, pausing her newsletter for the month, and trying to remember what living feels like. Their respective goal updates are modest and real: Krisserin squeezed in two revision sessions (one of them in the car), while Kelton wrote 2,500 words—just not on her novel.   Krisserin and Kelton spend most of the episode answering listener mail. Kelly Barrett's six questions become the backbone of a wide-ranging conversation about AI (how they use it at work, why neither uses it for their own writing, and what happens when you catch your home assistant lying), reading life (when, how, how much, and what to do when a book isn't working), and self-publishing as a real option rather than a last resort.   Plus: dream therapy intake forms, artist dates in rural Colorado, thrift store prices that are absolutely not okay, and goals for a week when one spouse is heading into the mountains.   Books mentioned: Starling House by Alix E. Harrow The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern Coyote America by Dan Flores The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron Sevenwaters Series by Juliet Marillier   Big thank you to Kelly Barrett for her very thoughtful listener letter. She writes the newsletter Practice Not Perfect at kellybarrett.substack.com.  Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton sit down with writer Rachael Maddux (Life Expectancy: A Memoir, The Void, Third Person) to talk about what happens when a book you’ve spent 14 years writing never sells through traditional channels — and how you decide to make it exist anyway. Rachael walks us through her journey from first draft to cold querying agents to three years on submission to ultimately self-publishing through Ingram Spark. They get into the real mechanics: ISBNs, the difference between fulfillment and distribution, what your agent can still do for you after a book doesn’t sell, and why self-publishing still carries a weird “stank” in literary circles. Plus: writing groups as lifelines, reading as a writer, mortality as a muse, and the moment you realize your friends actually showed up. Also featuring a very special cameo from Krisserin’s mom, Kennette. Find Rachael Maddux Website: rachaelmaddux.com Instagram: @rachaelmaddux Life Expectancy: A Memoir — Bookshop.org | Amazon Books Mentioned in this Episode Mary Magdalene Once Upon a Time by Kennette Canary — Amazon Book of Claire by Kennette Canary — Wattpad The Star Who Lost Her Shine by Alex Huey Evans (debut picture book, coming Summer 2026) — alexhueyevans.com | Amazon | Barnes & Noble Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell The Keeper by Tana French Works by Clarice Lispector Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton barely make it to record — 15 minutes late despite trying to be 30 minutes early — and that kind of week sets the tone. Kelton's survived two weeks of Colorado spring break without daycare, while Krisserin's mom is in town and the two have been watching movies and running around together. A conversation about Hamnet opens up a question that runs through the whole episode: who is a book actually made for? That question gets personal when Krisserin responds to a listener letter from Sarah — a writer and loyal listener — who gently pushed back on her offhand comment about not reading male authors. Krisserin takes the feedback seriously, sits with it, and comes back with something more honest and nuanced than the original remark: not every writer is for every reader, and that's okay. When she's reading for pleasure and escape, she knows where she reliably finds what she's looking for. Kelton weighs in with her own reading year and they find their way to something they both actually believe. The accountability check-in brings the theme back around to their own writing: the what-if exercise from Ramona Ausubel's Unstuck unlocked something for both of them, Krisserin shares feedback on her short story from her mom and from Kelton, and Kelton floats a summer writing project that is quietly one of the most charming ideas they've discussed on the pod. Books Mentioned: - Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell - The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley - Starling House by Alex Harrow - The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern - Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer - Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman - James by Percival Everett - Unstuck by Ramona Ausubel Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton is on a record-breaking week — 5,563 words across three chapters — after ditching Scrivener for the freedom of a Google Doc. Krisserin finished two short stories and sent them to beta readers, though she's staying up until 1:30 AM to do it (thanks, Juliet Marillier). Then they're joined by a very special guest: Ramona Ausubel, Krisserin's former PEN Center USA Emerging Voices mentor and beloved teacher of writing. Ramona is the author of the National Book Foundation Science and Literature Prize-winning novel The Last Animal, a Barnes & Noble monthly pick, and winner of the PEN Center USA Literary Award for Fiction. Her work has appeared in The New Yorker, Tin House, Electric Literature, and The Paris Review. She's taught at Tin House, Bread Loaf, and multiple MFA programs including the Institute of American Indian Arts and Bennington, and she's currently a professor at Colorado State University. Her new book — Unstuck: 101 Doorways Leading from the Blank Page to the Last Page — is a creative companion for writers at every stage of the process, and it's out now. In this conversation, Ramona talks about why getting stuck is a feature of writing, not a failure; how she thinks of the whole process as learning to stop and start again with grace; and why a life full of interruptions is actually the substance of the work. She shares practical techniques from the book — the "20-minute doorway," revising thread by thread, and the concept of "structured play" — and what it means to follow a small doorway when you can't see where you're going.   Plus: pantsing vs. outlining (Ramona does both, in sequence), how she realized a character needed to die two drafts after the book sold, what it means to be a writer who takes herself both very seriously and completely unseriously, and why the treatment you give your work — not its subject — is what makes it yours. Follow Ramona Ausubel: • Website: ramonaausubel.com • Instagram: @ramonaausubel • Unstuck: 101 Doorways Leading from the Blank Page to the Last Page — available now wherever books are sold, or order at bookshop.org Books Recommended by Ramona: • All Souls by Christine Schutt  • We the Animals by Justin Torres  • The Houndling by Xenobe Purvis  • Refuse to Be Done by Matt Bell  Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Spring break writing wins, a faux lip ring verdict, and the announcement of a big summer challenge: both hosts commit to finishing their first drafts by Labor Day. Krisserin wrote three times this week and Kelton locked her gothic novel's timeline and finally wrote the prologue she didn't know she needed. They also get into Kazuo Ishiguro's “Never Let Me Go” (craft: yes, ending: no), Juliet Marillier's “Daughter of the Forest” series that BookTok surfaced from 1999, the screen-time-as-wealth discourse, and why a playwright's Japanese jail stint made them briefly reconsider their productivity strategies. Books mentioned: The Possession of Alba Diaz by Isabel Cañas Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro Daughter of the Forest by Juliet Marillier Unaccustomed to Grace by Lesley Bannatyne The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern The Other Valley by Scott Alexander Howard The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley Write to us: [email protected] Follow us: Instagram: @penpalspod TikTok: @penpalspod YouTube: @PenPalsPod SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com Follow Krisserin and Kelton: TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios