Advertise on podcast: The Octus Download

Everybody in this episode is playing with other people's money. Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt warm up with the Emmys (02:05), then get to LIV Golf (04:56), the Saudi Public Investment Fund's $5 billion swing at the PGA Tour, now in a New Jersey bankruptcy in front of friend of the pod Judge Michael Kaplan. TV money was about 5% of revenue, against as much as 67% at the PGA Tour. BC Partners is anchoring a $300 million plan to relaunch the league with the players as owners, and the real prize may be $5 billion in net operating losses (13:44). What neither host can figure out is why any golfer would take this deal (16:14). Then it's Rich Dad Poor Dad (22:47). Robert Kiyosaki loves telling people he's $1.2 billion in debt, so Vanity Fair sent a reporter to his Arizona home to find out how the get rich guy got there. His actual share turns out to be a fraction of that. The better story is who paid for his first business, a Velcro wallet company (27:20). Hint, it wasn't the rich dad. This week's unofficial sponsor is other people's money (32:54). Starting a rival golf league nobody asked for? Use a sovereign wealth fund's. Looking to spice up your marriage? Use other people's spouses. Which brings us to Culture Corner (34:17) and The Invite, with Olivia Wilde and Seth Rogen as a couple running on fumes who invite the loud upstairs neighbors, Penélope Cruz and Edward Norton, down for dinner. Kevin finds a plot hole the size of Jupiter (36:00) and producer Tanya weighs in on the moment Hawk turns out to be a Howard (40:52). ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with a con artist who thirst trapped women out of $1.3 million by faking his way onto the San Francisco 49ers (02:46), a bit that nearly separated producer Tanya from ten grand. Then it is on to Brightline Florida (07:06), the only privately run inner city passenger railroad in the country, with ridership up double digits, EBITDA finally positive, and roughly $5.5 billion of debt that has been amended 19 times. The trains keep running. The company is probably filing Chapter 11 anyway. Meanwhile the All In podcast is holding it up as proof Florida can build. The conversation turns north to Syracuse (15:24), Kevin's alma mater, which missed its enrollment target and borrowed $458 million for dorms after 25 years of treating full paying international students as a renewable resource. Octus built a database of 92 distressed private colleges. Syracuse was never on it. Until now. Update Corner brings the Wachtell report on Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers, with David Zupkas, legal analyst at Octus, joining to break down the penalty and the fraudulent transfer fight (35:35). The show closes on Coyote vs Acme (44:42), a legal comedy that a corporation nearly buried for a tax write off. The metaphor escaped containment. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin EckhardtGuest: David Zubkis (Legal Analyst, Octus)Produced and Edited by Tanya HubbardA Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:05) - Cold open and compliance read (02:43) - Fake 49ers player scam (07:06) - Brightline Florida overview and success (08:12) - Why Brightline is heading to bankruptcy (10:31) - The four company debt structure explained (13:24) - Train travel in America (15:24) - Syracuse enrollment miss and dorm debt (18:20) - The distressed college database (20:53) - Endowments and systemic risk (22:25) - Why Syracuse first (35:35) - Wachtell report on the Clippers (37:39) - The Kawhi fraudulent transfer fight (44:42) - Culture Corner Coyote vs Acme (55:39) - Wrap and close

Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt  start with the latest twist in the  Kawhi Leonard investigation (03:17), digging into the reported endorsement deals, the NBA investigation into whether the Clippers used team sponsors to circumvent the salary cap, and the bankruptcy questions still hanging over Aspiration. They get into ESPN’s reporting that the NBA found no evidence Steve Ballmer funneled money to Kawhi through Clippers sponsors, and why the league’s pushback leaves plenty unresolved. Then it’s Mark Walter (18:22), the billionaire behind the Dodgers, the Lakers deal, Chelsea and a much more complicated web of life insurance, private credit and related-party investments. Jason and Kevin break down why affiliated transactions matter, how Delaware Life’s reported affiliated investments jumped dramatically, and why the broader relationship between Walter’s sports empire, insurers and Guggenheim has regulators and lenders paying attention. Before Culture Corner, the show picks up an extremely unofficial sponsor: Flock Cameras (32:25). Jason and Kevin take on the automated license-plate reader network, how searchable vehicle-location data can be used by police, the privacy and warrant questions around those searches, and Flock’s efforts to tighten controls after misuse concerns. Finally, Culture Corner heads back into the Taylor Sheridan universe with Lioness Season 3 (34:40), where Jason and Kevin debate Russia, CIA conference-room exposition and whether Zoe Saldaña’s Joe might love her job just a little too much ----more----Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin EckhardtProduced and Edited by Tanya HubbardA Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:05) - Intro and cold open (02:22) - Kawhi Leonard investigation background (04:38) - Daktronics and a second endorsement deal (05:36) - ESPN reports no direct evidence (07:07) - From funneling money to failure to supervise (10:27) - The NBA counterpunches the leak (13:50) - The bankruptcy estate and clawback questions (18:21) - Mark Walter and the sports portfolio (18:51) - How captive life insurers work (22:26) - Affiliated transactions and the numbers (27:41) - Systemic risk in insurance and private credit (32:25) - Flock Cameras, the unofficial sponsor (34:41) - Culture Corner: Lioness Season 3 (45:02) - Wrap and close

The mailbag is officially open. Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt hand the episode over to listeners for the first-ever Octus Download mailbag, starting with Bankruptcy 101: (02:40) Does filing for bankruptcy mean a company is actually going out of business? (04:44) When billions of dollars of debt disappear, who actually loses that money? (07:15) What does “restructuring” really mean? And (10:41) why can’t a bankrupt company just sell everything it owns and pay everyone back? Then things get more personal. At (13:47) Jason and Kevin pick the bankruptcy cases they’ll never forget, (17:47) choose the one case they’d use to explain bankruptcy to someone who knows absolutely nothing about finance, and (24:11) tackle the favorite bankruptcy of the year, wrong answers only. At (27:53) the credit talk stops and Culture Mail opens, with TV takes, Emmy opinions, movie recommendations (35:03) Producer Tanya Mail puts the hosts on the spot about things cut from the show, rabbit holes they still want to go down and the takes they know will start an argument. And then, (37:29) Hate Mail arrives. At (38:07) U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Michael Kaplan joins the fun with a message for Kevin, a concern about his future source material and one very specific job offer. Finally, at (41:36) Jason and Kevin close the first mailbag and invite listeners to send the next round of questions, complaints and bad takes to [email protected]. ----more----Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin EckhardtProduced and Edited by Tanya HubbardA Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:06) - Cold open and the mailbag is live (00:44) - Jason reads the compliance read (02:31) - Does bankruptcy mean going out of business (04:11) - Who loses the money when debt gets wiped (07:07) - What restructuring actually moves around (10:47) - Why not just sell everything and pay everyone (13:57) - The case Kevin will never forget (15:55) - The Shreveport riverboat casino buffet (17:53) - One case to teach someone finance (24:14) - Favorite bankruptcy of the year, wrong answers only (27:53) - Culture Mail opens (34:57) - Producer Mail with Tanya Hubbard (37:28) - Hate Mail and a letter from Judge Kaplan (42:33) - Wrap and close

Every retailer in America named Michael is either printing money or closing stores. Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt start with a tale of two Michaels (04:59). Michael Kors, the brand not the man, has quietly closed 139 stores in three years while sales dropped more than $860 million, caught in the collapsing middle where near luxury goes to die. Then the resurrection. Apollo bought Michaels, the craft chain, for $3.3 billion, watched the bonds trade at 34 cents, then refinanced the whole thing at par (11:33) after Joann and Party City conveniently burned down next door. There is a bankrupt balloon factory in here too. From there (19:15), the bankruptcy boys return to the Kawhi Leonard beat. A $28 million endorsement for a green bank that went bust, a creditor list nobody was supposed to read, a 14 year federal sentence, and a frozen trade to Toronto. There is also a scrapped ad campaign so strange it deserves its own segment (27:43). The show closes with a World Cup edition of Culture Corner (38:39). The final lands at MetLife on Sunday, and the American run was secretly a credit investing story. One text, one very large check, one Griffin (35:52). Producer Tanya road trips through AC refrigerant safety on the way out. ----more----Hosted by Jason Sanjana and Kevin EckhardtProduced and Edited by Tanya HubbardA Production of The Octus Podcast Network

Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open on Sleep Number, the smart mattress maker that dialed itself into Chapter 11 (02:07). The stock dropped 70 percent, the equity is underwater, and strategic partner Travis Kelce bought his stake on the open market months before the filing. Kevin floats a theory about who actually buys these beds. The numbers tell a sadder story (04:02), and there is a Canadian buyer nobody saw coming (05:35). From there (16:00), a summer camp empire. Simad Holdings ran 30 camps serving 20,000 kids a year, borrowed 195 million dollars from Israeli bond investors in December, and filed for Chapter 11 days after school let out. Jessica Steinhagen, Senior Director, Legal at Octus, joins (22:26) to explain the Jewish camp scene and answer the question every parent should ask. Whether solvency makes the list (25:02). Then the campers' embroidered trunks raise a genuine law school exam question (27:54). Kevin takes us to Caracas (30:16) for Rodrigo Herrera, the 75 year old debt collector who works in a full devil costume and drives a flame painted 55 Chevy. The unofficial sponsor read lands (35:47) before Culture Corner (38:28) takes on Jon Hamm and 600 million dollars nobody wants to hold on Your Friends and Neighbors. ----more----Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin EckhardtGuest: Jessica Steinhagen (Senior Director, Legal, Octus)Produced and Edited by Tanya HubbardA Production of The Octus Podcast Network

Michael Gatto, partner at Silver Point Capital and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School and Fordham's Gabelli School of Business, joins at (02:12) to talk teaching, distressed investing, and how he went from a firm running $120 million to a $50 billion shop as its first non founder partner. He makes the case for hiring the gritty Fordham underdog over the Ivy pedigree, and explains why credit has always been a game for strivers. The timing is not subtle. BDCs are gating, First Brands had its disclosure statement denied with the US Trustee moving to convert to Chapter 7, and Jamie Dimon has been muttering about cockroaches. Gatto digs into what a credit analyst should actually learn from First Brands (19:43), what allocators should be asking direct lending managers (30:53), whether there is any fun left now that private credit went from the hottest asset class on the street to a beat down dog, and the O'Shea Center for Credit Analysis he founded at Fordham with Bob O'Shea. The conversation turns to Caesars Entertainment (38:35), the largest casino company in the US with 53 properties across 18 states, and Fertitta Entertainment taking it private in a $17.6 billion all cash deal at a 49 percent premium. Kyle Owusu, Director of Credit Research at Octus, walks through it (39:37), the $11.9 billion of debt Fertitta is inheriting, the $569 million in interest the company pays every quarter, the change of control put bondholders were watching, and the go shop window that is still open. The real story sits in the digital business, which more than doubled EBITDA last year while the Strip slipped about 5 percent, and in the enterprise value math that runs from the 2008 Apollo and TPG buyout through the brutal 2015 bankruptcy to today. Then Culture Corner (55:02) on Jack Ryan: Ghost War, the John Krasinski reboot that hit number one globally on Prime with Wendell Pierce and Michael Kelly back in the fold. The guys get into the TikTok theory that the whole thing was funded by Dubai tourism, the debate over the greatest Tom Clancy movie ever made with The Hunt for Red October as the benchmark, and why one host insists he was only resting his eyes. ----more----Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin EckhardtGuest: Michael Gatto (Partner, Silver Point Capital)Guest: Kyle Owusu (Director of Credit Research, Octus)Produced and Edited by Tanya HubbardA Production of The Octus Podcast Network Link to what we talked about: The Credit Investor's Handbook: Leveraged Loans, High Yield Bonds, and Distressed Debt (Wiley Finance) Links - amzn.to/4vne6Oz  What Can a Credit Analyst Learn from the Rise and Fall of First Brands -  https://bit.ly/3SehLzy  What Questions Should Allocators Ask When Evaluating Direct Lending Managers  - https://bit.ly/4enYRNO   00:00:05 Cold open and the fine print00:02:12 Michael Gatto on teaching and Silver Point00:19:43 What a credit analyst learns from First Brands00:30:53 What allocators should ask direct lending managers00:38:35 Caesars goes private00:39:37 Kyle Owusu on the Fertitta deal00:55:02 Culture Corner and Jack Ryan Ghost War01:03:25 Wrap and close

Some weeks the news is weird. This week it is weird, litigious, and somehow involves 420,000 uprooted peach trees. Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open with Ryan Cohen's unsolicited, non binding offer to acquire eBay for $125 a share in a cash and stock deal (04:16), a bid that valued the target at roughly $56 billion from a company with a $12 billion market cap. Cohen showed up on Squawk Box in a leather jacket (05:33), could not explain the math to Andrew Ross Sorkin, and watched the stock drop 10% in real time. Michael Burry sold his entire position the next day. eBay called the bid "neither credible nor attractive." The hosts disagree on whether Cohen is a visionary or a chaos agent, and the debate is genuinely good. From there (14:30), the conversation moves to Del Monte Foods, a 130 plus year old company that filed Chapter 11 in July 2025 after an aggressive LME bought the company nine months. Asset sales closed in March 2026, with Fresh Del Monte, Pacific Coast Producers, and B&G Foods splitting the business for roughly $499 million combined. Judge Michael Kaplan's ruling on non pro rata DIP roll ups is the legal crux, and Kevin's conflicted feelings about it are some of the best radio on this episode. Also, 420,000 peach trees are being ripped out of California orchards. Producer Tanya called it a crisis, and she is not wrong. The episode closes with the debut of the Clout Audit Tribunal (24:08), Neal Katyal's TED Talk, Harvey AI, and the Supreme Court bar's collective meltdown over a Burning Man photo (31:16), before landing on Your Friends and Neighbors Season 2 (38:42), Jon Hamm, James Marsden's Owen Ashe, a deer shot dead on a beach, and the show's running thesis that rich people behaving badly in expensive houses is one of TV's most reliable pleasures. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:00) - Cold open, host intro, and the fine print (02:30) - Kars for Kids and the California restraining order (04:16) - GameStop’s unsolicited bid for eBay (05:33) - Ryan Cohen on Squawk Box and the math problem (11:30) - Is meme stock M&A just modern corporate finance (17:30) - The peach tree crisis, 420,000 trees and $550M in canceled contracts (20:00) - Judge Kaplan’s DIP roll up ruling explained (24:08) - The Clout Audit Tribunal, Neal Katyal’s TED Talk and Harvey AI (33:30) - Jason and Kevin pitch their own TED talks (38:42) - Your Friends and Neighbors Season 2, Owen Ashe, Coop, and a dead deer (48:00) - Wrap and close

Some companies die because the math was never going to work. Spirit, AMC, and fire truck pricing all make that case differently. Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with an emergency segment on Spirit Airlines (02:31), which ceased all operations on May 2nd after 34 years, 17,000 jobs, and a wind-down that happened overnight. Kevin, who covered the case at Octus, walks through why the Twitter narrative blaming the Biden DOJ is missing about 90% of the actual story. The Trump administration floated a $500 million bailout, but when the DIP lenders said no, it evaporated. The hosts debate whether Spirit was ever going to survive, why the JetBlue merger is a red herring, and what the crowdfunding campaign to "buy Spirit" actually tells you about the internet. Then (19:03), Krishan Sutharshana, senior distressed debt analyst at Octus, joins to walk through AMC. The largest movie theater chain in the world has raised nearly $4 billion in equity since the pandemic and still cannot generate positive free cash flow. Krishan explains the LME, the $3 billion maturity wall, the streaming window compression, and why the box office needs to hit $10 billion before AMC breaks even. From there (36:19), Kevin breaks down how private equity rolled up the fire truck market, with Rev Group sitting on $4.4 billion in unfilled orders while prices have risen 5x and used trucks jumped 62% in a year. The show closes with the debut of The Parent Trap (42:10), a new segment about the things you do for your parents.  Jason spent a long weekend helping his parents move out of the Pittsburgh house they lived in for 40 years. Kevin produced a photo of his father on the field alongside O.J. Simpson and Dan Marino, which raises more questions than it answers. And the show's first ever mystery write-in arrives: an orchid dispute at an assisted living facility from a listener who is definitely not anyone on the production team. The hosts took it extremely seriously and provided the full legal analysis it deserved. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: Krishan Sutharshana (Senior Distressed Debt Analyst, Octus) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:05) - Cold open and host intro (02:31) - Spirit Airlines ceases operations (07:06) - The $500 million bailout that wasn’t (13:07) - JetBlue, Frontier, and the revisionist history (19:03) - AMC and the box office recovery question (20:36) - Krishan Sutharshana on AMC’s capital structure (23:55) - Four billion in equity, still burning cash (26:16) - The 2024 LME and the maturity wall (31:03) - Streaming windows and what kills theaters (42:10) - The Parent Trap: Pittsburgh, OJ, and orchids (51:37) - Wrap and close

Private credit was supposed to be boring. This episode makes the case that boring just got complicated. Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open with a cruise recap and the $80 million law firm hire that broke the internet before bringing in Mark Fischer,, Head of Financial Research at Octus (08:17). He breaks down why private credit is facing its first genuine stress test. Not COVID, not rate hikes in isolation, but both cycles hitting at once: floating-rate loans repricing into a distressed environment, dividend coverage cracking, and BDC marks on the same asset sitting 40 points apart depending on who’s holding it. The conversation moves to redemption pressure (22:19), where Blue Owl’s Technology Income Fund absorbed repurchase requests on 40% of outstanding shares and could only honor 5%. Saba Capital has since launched a tender at a 33% discount. Mark stays diplomatic on whether the marks are wrong. The hosts are less diplomatic. From there (31:27), the episode shifts to Friendly Franchisees Corporation, a 65-unit Carl’s Jr. operator in California that just filed for Chapter 11. Owner Harshad Dharod blamed AB 1228, the law that raised the fast food minimum wage to $20. A UC Berkeley study released this month found no net job losses and only minimal menu price increases. Jason and Kevin are unconvinced the law is the villain here. Culture Corner (43:55) covers The Pitt, the HBO Max medical drama that actual ER doctors call the most realistic show they’ve ever seen. The hosts debate whether watching exhausted professionals make life-and-death decisions under institutional pressure hits a little too close to home for two former restructuring lawyers. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: Mark Fischer (Head of Financial Research, Octus) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:36) - Intro and Kirkland’s reported $80M lateral hire (08:04) - Mark Fischer joins: private credit’s first real stress test (13:31) - Dividend coverage, spread compression, and PIK income (19:13) - Software concentration and creative sector categorization (26:06) - Forced selling, portfolio quality, and clearing prices (29:12) - Saba Capital tender and what comes next (33:43) - AB 1228, California minimum wage, and the data (43:56) - Culture Corner: The Pitt Season 2 on HBO Max

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with the shot heard round the NCAA Tournament (00:01:32)Braylon Mullins' 35 foot buzzer beater that completed a 19 point UConn comeback to stun No. 1 overall seed Duke 73 to 72 in the Elite Eight. Jason confesses to rewatching the postgame press conference on repeat, Kevin sets aside his Syracuse era UConn hatred to celebrate, and the two trade stories about hating Duke, including Kevin's rejection letter despite a recommendation from Coach K himself. From there (00:06:07), the conversation turns to the federal antitrust class action filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado against Vail Resorts and Alterra Mountain Company. The lawsuit, brought by DiCello Levitt, Berger Montague PC, and Salahi PC, alleges an illegal duopoly in which Epic Pass and Ikon Pass bundling schemes inflate day pass prices, now as high as $356 at Vail, and coerce consumers into buying season passes they don't need. The hosts walk through the Sherman Act Section 1 tying theory (00:08:06), the ESPN/Disney parallel from the Dish Network litigation Kevin is tracking at Octus (00:09:39), and why Vail's defense that Epic Pass reduced season pass prices by 60% when it launched in 2008 doesn't address the day pass problem (00:13:01). Kevin predicts the case settles with vouchers and coupons, but Jason flags the motion to dismiss as the real inflection point (00:18:41). At (00:20:17), the hosts debut We Listen But We Don't Judge, a new segment inspired by the TikTok confessional format, applied to the bankruptcy and restructuring world. Three confessions follow: first, Judge Michael Kaplan appointing himself mediator in the Multi Color Corporation prepackaged Chapter 11 (00:22:18), a move so unprecedented the hosts can't find another example of a sitting judge mediating their own case. Second, White & Case's $14 million fee application as UCC counsel in ModivCare (00:31:19), where the debtors allege a partner threatened to run up $30 million in fees if the UCC didn't receive a $30 million payout, which Kevin and Jason argue is just good lawyering. Third, Burford Capital's $16 billion judgment against Argentina getting invalidated by the Second Circuit (00:34:25), wiping out a concentrated asset that underpinned the litigation funder's entire balance sheet. After a fake WD 40 ad break (00:39:00), the show closes with a review of Ryan Murphy's FX series Love Story: John F. Kennedy Jr. & Carolyn Bessette (00:40:43). Despite record viewership and a 90s aesthetic that made Kevin want to smoke again, both hosts agree the nine episode series couldn't sustain itself on two characters who weren't written with enough depth to carry the story. Jason's biggest gripe: the show ignored the broader political and cultural context of late 90s America. Kevin's: the plane crash scene played like a parody. They agree the most interesting character, Jackie Kennedy played by Naomi Watts, got only three scenes. UPDATE: Following the release of this episode, Burford Capital reached out to correct three inaccuracies from the discussion. On cash flow. Kevin said Burford had cash flow issues in the past year. That isn't accurate. Burford has never had cash flow issues. The company invests its own capital and held $740 million in cash and marketable securities as of March 31, 2026. On the 40% figure. Jason said roughly 40% of Burford assets were booked to the YPF litigation. That figure applies to fair value, not deployed cost exposure. On the $300 million. Kevin said Burford loaned approximately $300 million in fees against any recovery. Burford has never reported that figure. The company generated $236 million in cash proceeds from the YPF case, deploying approximately $130 million of its own capital, which resulted in more than $100 million in profit. We regret the errors and thank Burford for the clarification. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (01:32) - Braylon Mullins’ buzzer beater and why everyone hates Duke (04:35) - Kevin’s Coach K recommendation letter and the only rejection (06:07) - The Vail Resorts and Alterra Mountain Company antitrust lawsuit (08:06) - Sherman Act Section 1 tying theory and $356 day passes (09:39) - The ESPN/Disney parallel and Ticketmaster of skiing analogy (13:01) - Vail’s defense: Epic Pass reduced season pass prices by 60% (15:29) - Filing in Colorado, plaintiff firms, and the death of ski culture (20:17) - NEW SEGMENT: We Listen But We Don’t Judge (22:18) - Confession 1: Judge Kaplan appoints himself mediator in Multi Color Corp. (39:00) - Unofficial sponsor: WD 40, it’s not a solution but it makes the problem quiete (44:18) - The plane crash scene and why it doesn’t work (49:07) - Download the Octus Mobile App now!

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with a quick catch-up (00:01:28) as Jason recounts a family ski trip to Vail that devolved into a flu-ridden disaster, complete with an urgent care visit and altitude-amplified misery. They flag a programming note: this episode was recorded before CEO Kent Collier's episode aired, so the timeline is slightly off from the news cycle. From there (00:04:02), the conversation turns to Uncle Nearest, the premium Tennessee whiskey brand now in receivership after lender Farm Credit Mid-America sued over roughly $100 million in unpaid debt. Guest Patrick Mohan, Head of Legal Analysis, Municipals at Octus, joins to break down what happened when the receiver started digging into the books. The Weavers claim 56,000 barrels valued at $1,400 each; the receiver says records were overstated by about 20,000 barrels and values them closer to $400. Revenue reported near $70 million turned out closer to $40 million, unsecured debt jumped from the claimed $10 million to over $50 million, and a brief Chapter 11 filing (00:06:51) was dismissed within 48 hours after the judge ruled Fawn Weaver lacked authority to file with a receiver already in control. The conversation shifts (00:15:31) to FanDuel Sports Network, the latest identity for what was once the Fox Regional Sports Networks. Kevin walks through the full arc: Sinclair's spectacularly timed 2019 acquisition, the first Chapter 11 in 2023, a streaming pivot that was actually gaining traction with 650,000 paid DTC subscribers, and why none of it mattered when the debt structure was built on cable-era carriage fees that no longer exist. All nine MLB teams have terminated their agreements, and the hosts dig into the structural shift (00:22:10) from the old MVPD cable bundle to a world where fans refuse to pay $20 a month for a standalone product that used to be invisible inside their package. The hosts pivot to the Forbes 30 Under 30 pipeline (00:30:33), where a disproportionate number of honorees have ended up charged with fraud or in federal prison, including Sam Bankman-Fried, Elizabeth Holmes, Adam Neumann, Martin Shkreli, and Trevor Milton. Kevin argues it's selection bias. Jason counters that the real inflection point is the $40 million mark (00:36:43), after which money stops being a medium of exchange and becomes pure ego fuel. The show closes with Culture Corner (00:37:10) and "Sentimental Value," the Norwegian film by Joachim Trier that just won the Oscar for Best International Feature Film. The movie centers on a father-daughter relationship, a house in Oslo passed down through four generations, and the tension between what something is worth on paper versus what it means to a family. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: Patrick Mohan Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (01:28) - Jason’s Vail ski trip and the family flu (04:02) - Uncle Nearest receivership and the bourbon market collapse (06:51) - The failed Chapter 11 filing and why it was dismissed (09:21) - The barrel gap: 56,000 claimed vs. 36,000 reconciled (10:35) - Why the bourbon glut makes recovery even harder (14:21) - Patrick wraps and what comes next for Uncle Nearest (15:31) - FanDuel Sports Network and the death of regional sports (22:10) - Cable bundles vs. virtual MVPDs and the blackout problem (27:54) - MLB’s long game to reclaim broadcast rights (30:33) - Forbes 30 Under 30: selection bias or fraud incubator (36:43) - The money number and why wealth past a threshold destroys people (37:10) - Culture Corner: Sentimental Value and inherited grief (42:13) - Oscar win, Scandi design, and wrap

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with a discussion about JFK Jr.’s bar exam struggles, using it as a jumping-off point for a conversation about pressure, public expectations, and how high-profile figures are judged when they stumble. At (08:14), Kent Collier, Founder and CEO of Octus, joins the show to outline his contrarian view on the recent panic around private credit and software companies. As headlines warn about potential risks tied to SaaS leverage and AI disruption, Collier argues much of the concern is overstated. From there, the conversation digs into the intersection of private credit and software-as-a-service businesses. Recent market volatility including headlines around Blue Owl’s fund gating and broader AI disruption fears has fueled concerns that software companies may be overleveraged. Collier pushes back, explaining that many SaaS businesses generate strong cash flow, operate with negative working capital, and provide deeply embedded tools that customers cannot easily replace. The discussion expands into how AI is changing software development and business operations, with Collier describing how tools like Claude and Cursor are already improving productivity and reducing development costs inside companies like Octus. The episode closes at (35:15) with a culture segment on the Hulu series “Love Story.” Producer Tanya Hubbard makes her on-mic debut, defending the show’s portrayal of JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette’s relationship. The lively exchange turns into a debate about the show’s characters, 1990s celebrity culture, and how modern audiences interpret the power dynamics in their relationship. Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: Kent Collier (Founder and CEO, Octus) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open in Houston bankruptcy court (00:02:20) with Fat Brands’ Chapter 11 filing, breaking down how an aggressive whole business securitization spiraled into allegations of self-help, insider loans, and lender revolt (00:09:45). The core problem was structural: roughly $1.5M a month in management fees against nearly $8M in real operating costs, a model that only worked if consumer spending never slowed (00:03:10). When traffic fell and prices rose, the financing cracked, payments were missed, and more than $1.2B of debt was accelerated (00:14:51). The conversation then turns to a quieter signal of consumer change (00:14:51). Minivan sales surged 21 percent year over year while overall auto sales grew just 2 percent, pushing market share to its highest level since 2019 (00:17:40). Jason and Kevin unpack why families are ditching SUV performance theater for practicality, and whether this shift reflects economic pressure or a cultural acceptance that adulthood no longer needs to be performed. Then switch focuses to Eddie Bauer’s retail collapse (00:21:51). About 175 stores head toward liquidation while the brand survives as licensed IP (00:24:30). Producer Tanya’s unfamiliarity with Eddie Bauer underscores the real issue: brands don’t die when sales fall, they die when relevance stops transferring (00:27:05). The episode closes in Culture Corner with Apple TV’s Shrinking (00:31:41), debating whether its fantasy of fast healing reflects cultural exhaustion or wish fulfillment, and why grief never transfers cleanly, no matter how polished the dialogue (00:37:10). ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:00) - Intro / Opens (02:09) - Fat Brands bankruptcy and why restaurants stopped making sense (03:10) - Whole business securitization explained (09:45) - What actually broke the Fat Brands structure (14:51) - Minivan sales surge and the return of practicality (18:32) - SUVs, identity, and the performance of adulthood (21:27) - Eddie Bauer, brand vs stores, and aging out (27:54) - Why brands die when awareness stops transferring (31:41) - Culture Corner: Shrinking and modern grief (36:48) - Therapy, honesty, and consequences on TV (39:46) - Wrap and close | Thank our Producer

Season 2 is back Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open with a quick life update, then the warm up turns into a real world bankrupt brand mishap when Jason gets bamboozled over the break by a distant bankruptcy friend, Party City, and suddenly a normal errand becomes a reminder that nothing is safe (00:03:14). The main event kicks off when the guys move from that moment into the headline story, Saks Bankruptcy, and what happens when luxury tries to operate like a discount chain, vendors stop shipping, and even relationships like Chanel’s start showing up as nine figure problems (00:06:58). They’re joined by Krishan Sutharshana, Senior Distressed Analyst at Octus, to break down the timeline, the vendor death spiral, and why an Amazon partnership can turn into a structural trap instead of a lifeline (00:09:41). From there, they pivot hard to Detroit’s spectacular $25 billion EV write down mess, with Ford taking a $19.5B hit and General Motors following with $7B, as the policy pendulum between Joe Biden and Donald Trump leaves automakers stranded mid pivot (00:25:11). This episode’s unofficial sponsor, the entry level job market, makes its pitch while side effects may include applying to 150 fake jobs and getting filtered out by AI (00:35:47), before the show closes with Culture Corner and a spoiler warning on Bugonia, plus a detour into Matt Damon on the state of movies and why Netflix keeps making everyone mad (00:37:55). The final moments land exactly where they should, with Producer Tanya’s celebrity crush Jon Bernthal and the love language conversation taking over like it was always inevitable (00:44:42). Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: Krishan Sutharshana (Senior Distressed Analyst, Octus) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:00) - Season 2 Returns (03:14) - Party City DoorDash (06:58) - Saks Bankruptcy (09:41) - Krishan Sutharshana Breaks Down Saks (11:21) - The Retail Death Spiral (15:19) - The Inventory Cliff (18:57) - The Vendor Leverage Bet (22:15) - Even Amazon Wants Out (25:02) - Detroit’s EV Hangover (25:11) - Hands Up for Detroit (35:48) - Unofficial Sponsor Returns: Entry Level Job Market (38:03) - Culture Corner: Play the Jingle (42:32) - Matt Damon on Movies (44:54) - Producer Tanya’s Love Language