Advertise on podcast: The Clear Crypto Podcast

Crypto wallets used to be the worst part of the experience: clunky, confusing and terrifying to get wrong. In this episode, we sit down with Itamar Lesuisse, CEO of Ready (formerly Argent), to talk about how smart contract wallets, social recovery and sleek UX are finally making self-custody usable for real people.  From staking Bitcoin on Starknet to spending stablecoins with a card, no seed phrase required, wallets are evolving into full onchain accounts. This is where crypto stops feeling like a risk and starts working as it should. Produced by Tonal Media. (00:00) Introduction to The Clear Crypto Podcast (00:56) The importance of privacy in crypto (04:51) Introduction of guest (04:45) Understanding seed phrases in crypto wallets (06:59) Innovations in self-custodial wallets (09:32) Stepping away from the wallet experience (10:12) The how-to of self custody (14:32) Explaining self-custody to others (19:51) What are neobanks? (21:23) Crypto for the next generation (24:23) Conclusion Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

Stablecoins: are they crypto’s killer use case or a compromise on decentralization?Host Nathan sits down with Sam Kazemian, CEO of Frax Finance, to unpack why stablecoins are suddenly the hottest topic in crypto, from explosive real-world demand to brand-new U.S. legislation that could change everything.  Sam explains how Frax is building a compliant, genius-act-ready dollar on-chain, why perfect decentralization might be impossible for fiat-pegged assets, and how stablecoins deliver the best of both worlds. No jargon, just the clearest take yet on why stablecoins are the bridge to mainstream adoption.  New to crypto or a hardcore cypherpunk, this episode will shift how you see the future of money. Produced by Tonal Media.  (00:00) Introduction (00:54) UK stablecoin regulations and why stablecoins matter (02:15) FRAX Finance and the Genius Act (03:18) Market opportunities and growth prospects (04:04) Decentralization vs. stablecoins (06:38) Current motivations in the crypto industry Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

Is Bitcoin just for Wall Street elites, or is it thriving in America's heartland? Hosts Nathan and Gareth chat with Matthew Moore, Oklahoma radio and TV host, about grassroots Bitcoin adoption, surprising everyday uses, state legislation like the Bitcoin Freedom Act and battling inflation with sound money.  Matthew shares how he's educating boomers, lawmakers and small towns on digital scarcity and self-custody. No jargon, just straight talk on crypto's real-world revolution. Whether you’re new or a seasoned hodler, this one’s for you. Produced by Tonal Media. Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

What’s the real tension in blockchain, total transparency or total privacy, and how do we unlock both?  Hosts Nathan and co-host Gareth dive deep with Yannik Schrade, CEO and co-founder of Arcium, on the privacy revolution: encrypted computing, zero-knowledge proofs, and multi-party magic that lets blockchains handle sensitive data like medical records and finance without leaks or trusted middlemen.  Yannik unveils his vision of "encrypted fibers" connecting global data silos for life-saving insights and seamless DeFi. No jargon, just straight talk on crypto’s privacy 2.0 era. Whether you’re new to the chain or a privacy purist, this one’s for you. Produced by Tonal Media. 00:00 Welcome to the Clear Crypto Podcast 00:54 Gareth's Insights from Token 2049 02:54 The Importance of Privacy in Crypto 04:00 SEC Privacy Roundtable & Introducing Yannik Schrader 04:54 What is Encrypted Computing & Arcium's Vision 05:40 The Blockchain Privacy-Transparency Paradox Explained 14:15 Privacy 2.0: Encrypted Shared State & Use Cases 21:08 Challenges and Regulatory Concerns 23:01 Closing Remarks and Socials Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

What if your Bitcoin could earn yield while staying secure and usable every day? Host Nathan chats with Bitcoin OG Dan Heyman, advisor at the Starknet Foundation, and Harry Grant from RE7 Labs, fresh from a Singapore launch event, about staking BTC on Starknet, the breakthrough turning digital gold into a productive powerhouse.  They unpack trustless yields, DeFi loops for max returns, and funds like RE7's BTC strategy that make it all seamless. No jargon, just straight talk on Bitcoin's usability revolution. Whether you're a newbie holder or a DeFi builder, this one's for you. Produced by Tonal Media (00:49) Introduction to today's topic: Bitcoin's practical use (01:38) Major development in Bitcoin usability (03:16) Daniel Heyman’s journey into crypto (06:00) Staking Bitcoin on Starknet (06:12) Understanding staking and its benefits (14:14) Henry Grant on Re7 Capital's role (16:20) On-chain strategies and maximizing yield (19:17) The importance of education in crypto Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

How do you decode the flood of blockchain data to uncover scandals and smart trades? Hosts Nathan and Gareth chat with Alex Svanevik, CEO of Nansen, about turning raw on-chain chaos into crystal-clear insights, labeling wallets, tracking flows, and using AI agents to investigate bombshells like FTX's collapse and the World Liberty Financial token dump. Alex reveals how Nansen's groundbreaking new app makes pro-level analytics as easy as asking a question. No jargon, just straight talk on crypto's transparent superpower. Whether you’re new to the space or a battle-tested OG, this one’s for you. Produced by Tonal Media. (00:00) Welcome to the Clear Crypto Podcast (01:00) Introduction to the podcast hosts Nathan and Gareth (01:36) Today's topic: Making sense of crypto activity through blockchain analytics (03:00) Discussion on blockchain's transparency and the need for tools to decode data (05:05) South Korean authorities using blockchain data to fight crime (06:58) Introduction of guest Alex Vic, CEO of Nansen (08:07) Alex discusses Nansen's role in labeling blockchain addresses (09:36) Example of FTX collapse tracking using Nansen (12:00) The importance of public blockchain data and its analysis (14:00) Ways blockchain data helps investors and law enforcement (18:34) Alex talks about new AI product for blockchain data analysis (20:05) Example of Justin Sun and World Liberty Financial scandal analysis (22:32) Future of blockchain analytics and AI in simplifying data use (24:00) Product launch details and new features (27:05) How AI assists in making blockchain data user-friendly (30:00) Comparison between traditional and modern blockchain monitoring (32:00) Alex shares his vision for the future of blockchain technology (34:00) Gareth discusses how blockchain analytics address real-world problems (36:00) Closing remarks and social media handles Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

What’s the future of crypto wallets, and how are they becoming the control center of our digital lives? Hosts Nathan and Gareth dive into the world of cryptocurrency wallets with Jess Houlgrave, CEO of Wallet Connect. Jess unpacks the evolution of wallets, from clunky seed phrases to intuitive, Web2-like experiences, and how they’re bridging retail and institutional needs. Discover how wallets could soon hold your money, identity and more.  No jargon, just straight talk on crypto’s big moment. Whether you’re new or a seasoned hodler, this one’s for you. Produced by Tonal Media.  (00:00) Welcome to the Clear Crypto Podcast (01:00) Introduction of Hosts Nathan and Gareth (02:00) Emergence of Crypto as Mainstream News (03:00) Discussion Preview on Cryptocurrency Wallets with Jess Gra (05:00) Overview of Previous Episode with Chad West (07:00) Recent Developments in Crypto Wallets (10:00) Introduction and Background of Guest Jess Gra (12:00) Explanation of Seed Phrases (15:00) Different Types of Wallets and User Preferences (18:00) Major Hurdles for Wallet Mass Adoption (20:00) Evolution of Wallets from Retail to Institutional Use (24:00) Challenges in Bridging Web2 User Experience to Web3 (27:00) Importance of User Experience in Crypto (30:00) Balancing Simplification with Decentralization (34:00 ) Future of Wallets as Digital Hold-All and Passport (38:00) Potential of Wallets in Managing all Aspects of Life (41:00) Concluding Thoughts and Guest Social Media Handles Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

Is crypto crime as bad as the headlines make it seem? Host Nathan dives into the murky world of blockchain scams with Ari Redbord, the Sherlock Holmes of crypto and global head of policy at TRM Labs.  They unpack the reality of crypto crime, only 1% of activity but with high stakes like North Korea’s $1.5 billion hacks, and explore how tools like zero-knowledge proofs and blockchain intelligence are fighting back. Ari shares insights on pig butchering scams and the power of community-driven solutions. No hype, just clear talk on securing crypto’s future. Newbie or OG, this episode’s got you covered. Produced by Tonal Media (00:00) Welcome to the Clear Crypto Podcast (01:04) Introduction by Nathan, the podcast host (02:30) Discussing the prevalence and challenges of crime in the crypto space (03:36) Guest introduction: Ari Redbord, global head of policy at TRM Labs, former federal prosecutor (06:20) Data on crime in the crypto ecosystem: 1% illicit activity (10:15) The role of law enforcement and regulators in combating crypto crime (12:30) The traceability of transactions on the blockchain and its implications (14:37) Balancing privacy and security in the crypto ecosystem (17:18) The role of zero-knowledge proofs in enhancing privacy and security (19:54) Importance of collaboration between the private and public sectors (21:10) The prevalence of pig butchering scams and their impact (26:07) The importance of public education and reporting on scams (28:50) Positive impact of blockchain technology and the importance of community (31:00) How to follow Ari Redbord on social media (32:10) Conclusion and farewell, promoting episode 22 and host's Twitter handle Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

What’s the real power of Bitcoin, and how is it changing lives worldwide? Host Nathan sits down with Perianne Boring, founder of the Digital Chamber, to uncover Bitcoin’s groundbreaking use cases, from empowering women in Afghanistan to revolutionizing finance during crises like the Cyprus bailout.  Perianne shares her journey from journalism to policy advocacy, offering insights into crypto’s regulatory battles and what’s next for the industry. No hype, just clear talk on crypto’s transformative potential. Whether you’re a newbie or a crypto OG, this episode is a must-listen! This episode was produced by Tonal Media. [00:19] Introduction [01:06] Saying “Bitcoin” on air [02:32] The first Bitcoin conference (2013) [04:17] Cyprus bailout & Bitcoin’s real use case [05:26] Global need [07:00] Stories from “God Bless Bitcoin” [07:28] Afghanistan Women’s Story [11:00] Founding the Digital Chamber [12:29] Washington and regulation battles [14:08] SEC vs CFTC jurisdiction [17:00] Defining digital asset securities [17:48] Key lesson for newcomers Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned. 

What’s the real story behind blockchain? Hosts Nathan and Gareth take a look back at 21 episodes of The Clear Crypto Podcast, diving into the big ideas—trust, ownership, and transparency—that make blockchain more than just tech.  From Bitcoin’s rebellion against centralized power to Ethereum’s world computer, they unpack key moments with guests like Eli Ben-Sasson and Chad West, exploring how crypto redefines money, data, and power. No hype, just clear insights for newbies and OGs alike. Tune in to see where blockchain’s heading next. [00:00] Welcome to the integrity fan club [02:00] Incentivized integrity and trustless systems [05:00] Money as record keeping and decentralization [09:00] The brilliance of the 21 million hard cap [14:00] Ethereum and the rise of the world computer [17:00] Self custody and true ownership of assets [20:00] Digital life and peer-to-peer communication [23:00] Algorithms and control in social media [25:00] Consensus scalability and zero-knowledge proofs [28:00] Blockchain beyond the hype [32:00] Rethinking trust ownership and radical transparency Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

What’s shaping the future of crypto in Washington, D.C., and how does policy drive innovation? Host Nathan and co-host Gareth dive into the regulatory landscape with Kristin Smith, president of the Solana Policy Institute.  Kristin unpacks the landmark Genius Act, Solana’s rise as a leading blockchain and the crypto industry’s powerful advocacy in Washington. From stablecoin frameworks to overcoming misconceptions, this episode breaks down how policy is paving the way for blockchain’s mainstream moment. New to crypto or a seasoned pro, this one’s packed with insights for all. Produced by Tonal Media.  (00:00) Welcome to the Clear Crypto Podcast (01:00) Introduction of the hosts Nathan and Gareth (02:30) Gareth discusses his Ethereum documentary (05:18) Key questions explored in the documentary (08:25) Introduction of guest Kristen Smith from Solana Policy Institute (09:00) Overview of Kristen's background and the significance of her work (11:30) Discussion on the Genius Act and its impact on the ecosystem (15:05) Solana Policy Institute's role in Washington, D.C. (18:45) Changes in political engagement post-election (23:10) Importance and impact of lobbying in the blockchain industry (26:20) Addressing misconceptions in blockchain policy (31:45) Fly on the wall moments with policymakers (34:10) Conclusion and where to follow the hosts and guest on social media (36:00) Outro and thanks to the production team Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

Can zero-knowledge proofs revolutionize blockchain? Host Nathan and co-host Gareth dive into the world of cutting-edge cryptography with Eli Benson, CEO and co-founder of StarkWare.  Eli unpacks how zero-knowledge proofs ensure trust and scalability, transforming blockchain transactions with unmatched speed and security. From Bitcoin to Ether, learn why this math-driven innovation is the future of decentralized finance. No jargon, just clear insights for newbies and crypto OGs alike. Tune in for a mind-blowing dive into the tech shaping tomorrow. Produced by Tonal Media. 00:00 Welcome to the Clear Crypto Podcast 01:41 Introduction to zero-knowledge proofs 03:52 Understanding the math behind zero-knowledge proofs 08:47 The importance of cryptographic trust 11:22 Scaling blockchain with zero-knowledge proofs 16:26 The future of zero-knowledge proofs and blockchain 19:45 The politics and integrity of blockchain technology 22:05 Open source philosophy and conclusion Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

In this episode of “The Clear Crypto Podcast,” powered by StarkWare and Cointelegraph,Yana Leonova joins us for a thought-provoking conversation on how crypto can fuel sustainability, innovation and more inclusive progress — far beyond finance. Produced by Tonal Media.  (00:00) Welcome to “The Clear Crypto Podcast” (00:52) Host introductions (02:00) Gareth discussing academic blockchain talks (03:55) Discussion introduction: Blockchain and agriculture (06:00) Defining regenerative finance (ReFi) (08:00) Example of blockchain in reforestation and renewable energy (10:00) Introduction of Yana Lenova and her background in blockchain (12:05) Yana on blockchain’s role in agricultural sustainability and transparency (13:30) Dubai’s cutting-edge tech environment and blockchain initiatives (15:45) Examples of blockchain in global agriculture (19:00) Detailed explanation of logistics and transparency using blockchain (21:45) Blockchain’s impact on small farmers (24:10) Immutable tracking of land ownership using blockchain (27:00) Food waste reduction through blockchain (29:45) Yana discusses blockchain’s potential in addressing food distribution (33:15) Conclusion and how to follow Yana’s work on LinkedIn (34:10) Invitation to explore more episodes of “The Clear Crypto Podcast” Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

What’s stopping blockchains from talking to each other, and how do we bridge the gap? Host Nathan and co-host Gareth dive into the world of blockchain interoperability with John Kol, co-founder of HyperLane.  They unpack the challenges of connecting disparate blockchains like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana, and how HyperLane is building seamless bridges for value transfer. John shares insights on creating a user-friendly crypto experience that rivals Web2 standards.  No tech jargon, just clear talk on crypto’s connected future. Perfect for newbies and crypto veterans alike! Produced by Tonal Media.  (00:00) Introduction and host welcome (00:11) Blockchain’s communication problem (02:34) Interoperability, defined (03:07) Interoperability in the news (04:42) Jon Kol on the island problem (07:02) The technical challenge deep dive (08:04) Web2 vs Web3 user experience (12:11) Security vulnerabilities and bridge hacks (13:57) Security improvements and modular solutions (16:18) Starknet integration and real-world impact (17:55) Future predictions: Two to three years out (21:41) Wrap-up and takeaways Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd   Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

What does “investing in crypto” actually mean, and how do we make it feel less like rocket science? Host Nathan Jeffay chats with Ryan Rasmussen, head of research at Bitwise Asset Management, about how crypto is finally becoming accessible to mainstream investors. They unpack the tools, funds and strategies that make digital assets look less like magic internet money and more like a legitimate asset class. Rasmussen breaks down index funds for crypto, explains why Bitcoin under the mattress isn’t enough and how staking (even with the mess of US rules) lets people put skin in the game. From regulatory shifts to wrapped Bitcoin, this one’s all about building smarter bridges between traditional finance and the future of money.  No jargon. No hype. Just straight talk from people who think about crypto all day, so you don’t have to. Produced by Tonal Media.  (00:00) Welcome and mission of the podcast (01:36) Meet Ryan Rasmussen from Bitwise (02:25) What does investing in crypto actually mean? (05:47) S&P 500 analogy for crypto investing (07:17) How institutional investment fuels crypto ecosystems  (12:29) Regulatory shifts and the institutional surge (14:10) What is staking, and why does it matter? (15:28) The regulatory maze of staking in the US (17:57) Learning paths and resources for crypto investors Follow Cointelegraph on X @Cointelegraph. Follow StarkWare on X @StarkWareLtd Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com. Check out StarkWare at https://starkware.co/  If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review! The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast’s participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.