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The Radar, Not the Mirror Signal, Sensor and Story: Transforming Internal Audit from Assurance to Anticipation Governance Unplugged: Internal Audit, Risk & Controls | Episode 24 Host: Thomas Michel | Guest: Ana Riva, Head of Group Internal Audit, Syngenta Episode Summary A bridge collapses. One person explains why it failed. Another designs a bridge that never collapses. For most of its history, Internal Audit has been the first person: an excellent historian. But business now moves at Formula One speed, while many audit functions still report through the rear-view mirror. Thomas Michel talks with Ana Riva, Head of Group Internal Audit at Syngenta, about how Internal Audit can move from assurance to anticipation and become the organization's strategic radar. Her answer: three things working as one system. The signal (clarity over existing and emerging risks), the sensor (AI and digital tools for real-time, full-population auditing), and the story (the discipline of turning findings into action). About the Guest Ana Riva leads Group Internal Audit at Syngenta, one of the world's largest agriculture and crop science businesses. She has also served as an independent member of the Risk Management and Sustainability Committee of Ignitis Group, giving her a view from both sides of the table. In This Episode [00:00]  Cold open: the historian and the architect [00:00]  Why now? From assurance to anticipation [00:00]  The signal: clarity over existing and emerging risks [00:00]  Building the forecast in practice [00:00]  The sensor: AI and the end of the sample [00:00]  Getting started with AI: experiment, then scale [00:00]  The story: storytelling as a discipline [00:00]  Signal, sensor and story together, plus key takeaways What You Will Learn ▪     Why the forecast of emerging risks, not today's weather, earns Internal Audit its seat at the table ▪     Audit's forgotten superpower: an independent, enterprise-wide view that connects the dots between silos, without ever grabbing the wheel ▪     How AI ends the "tyranny of the sample," turning an annual photograph into a live video ▪     Why AI should not shrink the audit function, and where the time saved should go ▪     How Syngenta is starting with AI: pattern analysis of ten years of audit reports, control matrices, and report writing ▪     Three questions every audit report should answer: Why does this matter? What could happen? What should we do next? Memorable Quotes “Nobody ever changed their behavior because of a risk heat map.” “The data analysis is what makes audit results right. The story is what makes audit results matter.” “The most correct warning in the world is worthless if nobody turns the wheel.” A Challenge for Listeners Look at the last report you sent to your committee. Was it a screen full of accurate blips, or one sentence someone could act on? And when the next big decision comes, will the business call you into the room before it is taken? Connect with Ana Riva LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anariva

Full version of the Manifesto can be shared upon request by email: [email protected] Personal Manifesto of Internal Audit by Martin Studer Internal audit is not a technical function. It is an institution of trust. It exists because organisations are human systems: vulnerable, incentive-driven, pressured, political, ambitious – and imperfect. Where incentives distort judgement, where bad news evaporates on its way up, and where complexity overwhelms individual oversight, structural risk emerges. That is where internal audit begins. Not to control. Not to please. But to speak the truth early enough for it to still matter. Independence is our only real asset. Not as a principle on paper, but as an operating condition: organisationally protected, intellectually grounded, emotionally resilient, and ethically non-negotiable. Without independence, internal audit becomes scenery. With it, it becomes an institution. Independence means accepting the price of solitude. It means not needing approval to be right. It means enduring criticism without becoming quiet – and exerting influence without becoming arrogant. Assurance is not produced. It is granted. . . . Internal audit is not a career of comfort. It is a career of responsibility. Those who take it seriously gain something rare: the ability to see how organisations truly function – behind presentations, beyond narratives, beneath formal structures. That understanding is not a career step. It is long-term capital. It survives crises. It transcends industries. It protects value, trust, and strategic freedom. And sometimes – not often, but decisively – it allows us to change the course of decisions with clear words. Not loudly. But in time.

The Internal Auditor of Tomorrow: Why Artificial Intelligence Raises the Bar (Part 2) 💥 In the second part of my conversation with Hervé Gloaguen https://www.linkedin.com/in/hervé-gloaguen-5348ab9/, former Group Chief Audit Executive and Group Chief Compliance Officer of Allianz, we move from the what to the how. And Hervé does not hold back. His big idea: internal audit should not protect its own people. It should be a talent incubator for the whole organization. 🌱 That means attracting the best, developing them intensively, and then, the truly hard part, having the courage to let them fly. In his own words: “I need to cut my right arm regularly.” 💪 A few provocations that stayed with me: 🔹 Around 70% of an audit team should be non career auditors, talented people passing through, not staying for life. 🔹 A Chief Audit Executive should serve a maximum of about eight years. Fresh eyes matter. 🔹 Real growth comes from movement, across functions, geographies and roles. You are the manager of your own career. And on the eternal budget debate, his insurance cover metaphor is brilliant: it is not about praying for more headcount, it is about advising the board on how much safety they truly want. 🛡️ His closing advice to every head of audit? Do not hire the next you. And keep a good sense of humour. 😊 If you missed Part 1, start there, then come back for this one. #InternalAudit #Governance #RiskManagement #Leadership #TalentManagement #AuditAndAssurance #GovernanceUnplugged

The Internal Auditor of Tomorrow: Why Artificial Intelligence Raises the Bar (Part 1) 🤖 I had the real privilege of sitting down with Hervé Gloaguen @https://www.linkedin.com/in/hervé-gloaguen-5348ab9/, former Group Chief Audit Executive and Group Chief Compliance Officer of Allianz, where he led up to 900 auditors and 800 compliance officers across more than 40 countries. He has also sat firmly on the business side, as a board member, bank co chief executive and audit committee member. Few people have seen our profession from so many angles. And his message is refreshingly optimistic. 🚀 The headline? AI will not replace the auditor. It raises the bar. As the manual testing, the sampling and the first level analysis get automated, the human qualities become more decisive than ever: ✅ Professional skepticism and critical thinking ✅ The ability to communicate and to persuade ✅ Integrity and ethical behaviour Hervé also unpacks the idea of the T shaped auditor, the importance of a genuine risk mindset, and why the great auditor is part diplomat, part curious investigator and, perhaps surprisingly, deeply humble. Think Inspector Colombo, but turbocharged. 🕵️ And he challenges one of our most comfortable habits: the belief that an audit team should be built mainly from accountants. The dream team of tomorrow is younger, leaner and far more diverse. 🧩 This is Part 1 of a rich two part conversation. Part 2 follows next week, and that is where it gets even bolder. 📅 👉 What do you believe raises the bar most for the auditor of tomorrow? I would love to read your thoughts. #InternalAudit #Governance #RiskManagement #AuditAndAssurance #ArtificialIntelligence #Leadership #GovernanceUnplugged

In this episode, Thomas Michel interviews Tony W. DeKker, a former global head of business risk services at Ernst & Young, who now serves on various boards and teaches at Erasmus University. They discuss the gap between GRC science and the reality of the boardroom, the human factor in governance, and the art of risk discipline. They also explore the challenges of risk oversight, the strategic mistakes in cutting GRC functions, and the shortcomings of boardroom risk discussions. The conversation with Tonny Dekker covers the topics of risk management, governance, and the impact of AI on GRC. It emphasises the importance of human judgment, behavior, and emotional intelligence in board-level risk understanding and decision-making. Additionally, it explores the future of GRC and the challenges and opportunities presented by AI and technology. Takeaways Human behavior and the human factor play a significant role in the effectiveness of governance and risk oversight.The gap between GRC science and the reality of the boardroom presents challenges that require a balance between formalities and the art of risk discipline. Risk management is more of an art than a scienceThe future of GRC belongs to leaders with the courage to integrate, simplify, and embrace technology Chapters 00:00 Effective Risk Oversight in Boardrooms31:00 The Art of Risk Management38:19 The Future of Technology and GRC51:08 The Evolution of GRC Platforms

The conversation delves into the purpose and challenges of modern risk management, the importance of risk management in decision-making, the limitations of traditional risk reporting, the role of quantification, and the integration of risk management with internal audit and compliance. It emphasizes the need for risk management to shape decisions under uncertainty and be integrated into the decision-making process, with a focus on better judgment, resilience, and closer integration with other governance functions. Takeaways Risk management must shape decisions under uncertaintyIntegrated risk management is a part of the decision-making processThe future of risk management involves better judgment, stronger resilience, and closer integration with internal audit, compliance, and leadership decisions Chapters 00:00 The Purpose of Modern Risk Management07:42 The Importance of Risk Management13:21 Practical Changes in Risk Management18:39 Decision-Relevant Risk Reporting24:15 Quantification in Risk Management31:29 Integration with Internal Audit and Compliance

The conversation explores the transformative impact of AI on the internal audit function, emphasizing its role as a capability shift rather than just a tool. It delves into the practical implications of AI on the audit lifecycle, the importance of understanding different types of AI, the transformation of the internal audit function, and the future role of the internal auditor in an AI-enabled world. Takeaways AI as a transformative capabilityAI's impact on the audit lifecycle Chapters 00:00 AI as a Transformative Capability07:21 Understanding Different Types of AI

The conversation explores the impact of AI on organizations, the fiduciary responsibility of boards, AI regulation, building trust in responsible AI, defining decision authority, internal audit's role in AI, and the ideal superpower for AI oversight. Takeaways AI is a boardroom priorityStrong AI governance requires clarity in practiceInternal Audit plays a critical role in enabling safe and responsible transformation Chapters 00:00 The Reality of AI in Organizations06:55 Board Fiduciary Responsibility and Oversight12:16 AI Regulation and Board Perspective22:10 Defining Decision Authority and Ownership32:23 Superpower for AI Oversight

Keywords   AI transformation, governance, trust, human-centric, accountability, risk management, organizational culture, change management, executive leadership, digital transformation     Summary   In this episode of Governance Unplugged, host Thomas Michel and guest Christian Deloes discuss the complexities of AI transformation, emphasizing the importance of trust, governance, and human-centric approaches. They explore how organizations can successfully adopt AI by fostering a culture of psychological safety, establishing clear governance frameworks, and ensuring that AI initiatives align with business objectives. The conversation highlights common pitfalls in AI transformation, the role of boards in governance, and the necessity of measuring both value and risk in AI projects.     Takeaways   AI transformation is a continuous shift, not a one-time project. Success in AI is visible when it creates real business value. Good governance enables speed and trust, not bureaucracy. Boards should focus on strategic risks and compliance. Psychological safety is crucial for fostering innovation. Adoption of AI must be measured alongside ROI. Human-centric approaches are essential for successful AI integration. Clear decision rights reduce shadow AI and enhance accountability. Organizations must connect AI initiatives to business objectives. Effective change management is critical for AI transformation.     Titles   Navigating AI Transformation: Governance and Trust The Human Element in AI Adoption      sound bites   "What gets measured gets followed up." "Adoption is the product." "We need to create business agility."     Chapters   00:00 Introduction to Governance Unplugged 06:10 Success Metrics in AI Transformation 14:02 Common Pitfalls in AI Transformation 20:36 Immediate Actions for Boards on AI Governance 26:03 Navigating AI Governance and Liability 30:23 Connecting Strategy to Execution for Business Agility 37:15 The Importance of Data Governance 44:03 Fostering Trust and Capability in AI Adoption 54:25 Upline_Intro Music Podcast.wav

The conversation delves into the changing landscape of governance, the evolution of the modern internal auditor, the impact of AI on audit careers, and the skills of the future internal auditor. It also explores personal well-being, career surprises, practical examples of courage and integrity, preparing junior professionals for dark times, and the future of audit careers. Additionally, it discusses communication and influence in internal audit and the need to reskill audit teams for the future. The conversation explores the evolving skill mix in internal audit, the challenge of attracting top young talents, the use of role play and playbooks, AI as a talent enabler, lessons from audit background, preserving human core in the age of technology, culture and talent retention in internal audit, and cultivating future audit talent. Key takeaways include the rebranding of internal audit, the use of role play and playbooks, AI as a development tool, leadership lessons, preserving human core, attractiveness as an employer, and psychological safety and trust. Takeaways The evolving role of internal auditors in the face of AI automationThe importance of courage, integrity, and practical skills in the future of audit careers Rebranding internal auditAccelerated development programsRole play and playbooksAI as a development toolUpskilling and reskillingUnderstanding motivationLeadership lessonsPreserving human coreAttractiveness as an employerContinuous learning and exposurePositioning internal audit as a talent poolPsychological safety and trust Chapters 00:00 The Changing Landscape of Governance07:22 The Evolution of the Modern Internal Auditor14:27 The Impact of AI on Audit Careers22:35 The Future of Audit Careers28:38 Skills of the Future Internal Auditor35:29 Communication and Influence in Internal Audit42:37 Attracting Top Young Talents to Internal Audit54:28 Role Play and Playbooks for Internal Audit01:02:24 Lessons from Audit Background01:11:14 Culture and Talent Retention in Internal Audit

The conversation explores the future of governance, the role of internal audit in risk management, integrated assurance, simplicity and clarity in governance, accountability and oversight in the age of AI, adapting to technology and industry standards, the role of senior personnel in audit activities, data testing and assurance in internal audit, access to data and analysis for internal audit, understanding data trends and outliers, assurance and data reliance, proactive and dynamic risk management, intelligent risk management and business value, defining risk capacity and appetite, collaboration between internal audit and risk management, preventing assurance fatigue and maintaining accountability, transforming internal audit without losing credibility, educating the board on integrated assurance, the role of the board and management in organizing the assurance ecosystem, essential reading for chief audit executives, the importance of trust and assurance, the future of internal audit in 2030, high performing internal audit function in 2030, and the guiding principle of trust and accountability. Recommended reading from Martin: 1. Free Speech, A History from Socrates to Social Media, Jacob Mchangama 2. Das Harvard Konzept, Sachgerecht verhandeln, erfolgreich verhandeln, Roger Fisher, William Ury 3. Made to Stick, Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die, Chip Heath, Dan Heath 4. Radical Uncertainty, Decision Making Beyond the Numbers, John Kay, Mervyn King 5. Corporate Fraud, The Human Factor, Maryam Hussain Chapters 00:00 Exploring the Future of Governance05:25 Integrated Assurance and Risk Management11:47 Data Testing and Assurance in Internal Audit16:53 Proactive and Dynamic Risk Management23:30 Preventing Assurance Fatigue and Maintaining Accountability28:38 The Role of the Board and Management in Organizing the Assurance Ecosystem38:07 The Future of Internal Audit in 203043:16 High Performing Internal Audit Function in 2030

What happens when doing the right thing comes with real personal risk, to your job, your safety, or your reputation? In this compelling episode of Governance Unplugged – Internal Audit, Risk & Controls, we sit down with a highly experienced (and anonymised) Chief Audit Executive, whom we call “Michael.” Together, we explore what it truly means to lead with courage when the pressure is high, the stakes are real, and the risks are personal. Key Discussion Points ·      Uncovering tax fraud and bribery at the highest levels – and the personal consequences that followed. ·      Facing direct death threats and even shots fired during intense fraud investigations. ·      Managing pressure from the board and management to overlook or suppress critical findings. ·      Dealing with missing evidence and leadership’s preference for silence when stakes are high. ·      Personal safety strategies when audit work becomes dangerous. ·      Staying fact-based, ethical, and humane in crisis situations. ·      Balancing the assurance role with genuine support – without becoming an “alibi function.” ·      The importance of emotional intelligence and communication, alongside technical skills. ·      Building and rebuilding trust with management, the board, and audit teams after tough times. ·      Future skills for Heads of Internal Audit: AI, analytics, and adaptive leadership. ·      Practical advice for auditors who see wrongdoing but fear the repercussions of speaking up.   Michael’s Message Despite the dramatic stories, Michael’s message is not about heroics. It’s about calm, clarity, professionalism, and integrity, and how to maintain these values when everything around you accelerates. He emphasises: ·      Remain calm, even in the darkest moments. ·      Stay positive, seek clarity, and focus on facts. ·      Stick to your values; integrity is your anchor. ·      Recognise that dark times are often where you grow the most, professionally and personally.

In the second part of their conversation, Thomas Michel and Martin Studer (Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinstuder/ ) explore the future of internal audit and assurance. This episode focuses on how artificial intelligence (AI) and “alternative intelligence” are reshaping the profession, the impact on the Three Lines model, and the enduring value of human expertise. Martin Studer shares insights from his extensive experience leading global assurance and risk functions, challenging listeners to rethink the role and relevance of internal audit in a rapidly evolving landscape. Key Topics Discussed • AI and Alternative Intelligence • Digital Maturity in Audit • Governance Driving Transformation • The Sherpa Metaphor • Slow Pace of Change • Board Expectations & KPIs • Effective Audit Reporting • Team Board vs. Team Management • Next-Generation Auditors • The Human Edge • Assurance vs. Advisory Guest Profile – Martin Studer Martin Studer has nearly 30 years of experience in assurance, risk, and governance. He has led global internal audit and risk advisory functions at EY and Zurich Insurance Group, and now serves as Founder and General Partner of Bluerain Partners Group https://bluerainpartners.com . Martin is passionate about connecting governance, impact investing, and regeneration, driven by the question: “What if business became our most trusted platform for regeneration?” What You’ll Learn • How AI and digital transformation are changing internal audit • The importance of governance in driving innovation and accountability • Practical metaphors and strategies for effective audit leadership • How to write audit reports that truly influence decision-makers • Building resilient, courageous audit teams for the future • The critical distinction between assurance and advisory roles Looking Ahead This episode concludes Part 2 of “The Future of Assurance – Rethinking the Three Lines” with Martin Studer. Stay tuned for a next episode 15, where Thomas and Martin will discuss “Beyond Audit: Intelligence, Trust and the Next Frontier of Governance”, exploring how AI, trust, and intelligent risk management are redefining assurance. Subscribe to Governance Unplugged – Internal Audit, Risk & Controls to catch all future episodes.

Episode Overview In this first part of a two-part conversation, Thomas Michel sits down with Martin Studer, a distinguished leader in internal audit and risk advisory, to discuss the very foundations of assurance. Together, they explore the true purpose of internal audit, what makes the role genuinely impactful, and why the future of assurance will belong to those who demonstrate intellectual, emotional, and ethical resilience at the executive level. Martin also shares personal anecdotes—from family moments to reflections on rock icons and performance art—offering a glimpse into the human side of a career at the top of the profession. About Our Guest – Martin Studer With almost thirty years in assurance, risk, and governance, Martin has built and led internal audit and risk advisory functions worldwide. His career highlights include serving as Head of Global Internal Audit at EY and Head of Group Audit at Zurich Insurance Group. Currently, as Founder and General Partner of Bluerain Partners Group, Martin is dedicated to connecting governance, impact investing, and regeneration, driven by the powerful question: What if business became our most trusted platform for regeneration? Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinstuder/ Key Topics Discussed • Why Internal Audit and Internal AUDITORS Exist really: Delving into behavioral science (Daniel Kahneman’s “lazy brain”) and the principal–agent problem, Martin explains why internal audit is a structural necessity rather than a luxury. • The Auditor’s Right to Exist: Auditors must continuously learn and evolve alongside management to truly earn their place. • Internal Audit as a “Medal of Honour”: • Martin advocates for wearing the title with pride, rather than hiding behind more fashionable labels. • Designing Meaningful Careers: Insights on career rotations between internal audit and business functions, and why short-term “tourist” assignments can be counterproductive. • From Controls to Storytelling: The importance of senior judgment at board level and framing facts into coherent stories for decision-makers. • The Three Lines Model – Tool, Not Gospel: The model’s effectiveness depends on genuine leadership support and partnership across the lines. • Champions League Referee Analogy: Why a Head of Internal Audit must know the rules inside out and maintain respect from top executives. • Backbone of a Modern CAE: Martin’s three pillars: intellectual, emotional, and ethical resilience; and the importance of true independence. • Advice for Younger Auditors: Daily reading, seeking pressure, learning from strong leaders, and developing ethical sensitivity across cultures. Teaser: What’s Next in Part 2 This episode concludes Part 1 of the conversation. In Part 2, Thomas and Martin will delve deeper into the future of internal audit and assurance, discussing technology, data, and how the profession must reinvent its relevance. Subscribe to Governance Unplugged – Internal Audit, Risk & Controls so you don’t miss Part 2 of this compelling conversation.

Episode 12 From Trustless Code to Trusted Governance: Why Crypto Needs Boards and (Internal) Audit Guest: Marieke Flament: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariekeflament/ Episode Summary Crypto was built on “don’t trust people, trust the code.” But code is written, maintained, and exploited by people. In this episode, Thomas sits down with Marieke — a crypto-governance expert and industry leader — to explore the paradox at the heart of Web3: trustless architectures still require trusted structures. We unpack how Bitcoin and Ethereum took different paths, what DAOs have actually taught us about decision-making, why “trustless ≠ riskless,” and how boards, risk management, and internal audit can bring credibility, resilience, and scale to this fast-maturing space. You’ll hear concrete examples (FTX, Terra/Luna), practical boardroom questions for M&A and partnership decisions, and a clear playbook for founders who want governance to be a growth multiplier, not a brake pedal. What We Cover • Bitcoin vs. Ethereum: two governance philosophies, one shared lesson • DAOs: transparency, participation—and the human layer that never disappears • “Trustless ≠ Riskless”: why accountability and oversight still matter • What TradFi can learn from Web3 (traceability, on-chain analytics) • What Web3 can learn from TradFi (boards, controls, audit discipline) • The role of Internal Audit in crypto: from “after-the-fact” to “at-the-table” • Crisis readiness: scenarios, controls, and board behaviour when things break • Founder–Board dynamics: co-creation over compliance theatre • A day-one governance checklist for crypto founders Key Takeaways • Governance is a capability, not a constraint. In crypto, it’s the difference between hype and scale. • DAOs increase transparency, not infallibility. Human incentives and bias remain—just more visible. • Internal Audit belongs at the table. Anticipate risks early, shape controls, and strengthen credibility. • Convergence is here. TradFi gains traceability; Web3 gains board discipline and structured assurance. • Trust is built before the storm. Scenario planning and control design are non-negotiable. Memorable Lines • “Trustless doesn’t mean riskless.” • “Founders who treat boards as partners unlock real, sustainable growth.” • “Governance isn’t the enemy of innovation—it’s a multiplier.”