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A conversation about the many forms of endurance: how to keep going when things get hard, start again when they don’t work, embrace fear and failure, and stay curious enough to keep evolving. Mike Wardian is sitting in a van, days away from starting his southbound 2,650-mile run of the Pacific Crest Trail, a goal that has been sitting in the back of his mind for roughly 25 years. And somehow, he’s already thinking about what comes next: learning to row well enough to cross the Atlantic Ocean alone. But this conversation isn’t really about collecting bigger and harder feats. Matt and Molly talk with Mike about what endurance looks like when you stretch it across an entire life: finding a reason to keep moving when things get dark, staying curious after decades in the sport, willingly becoming a beginner again, and figuring out what to do when persistence still doesn’t produce the result you wanted. From his early discovery of marathons, ultras, the Barkley Marathons, the PCT, and the challenges still ahead, Mike offers a view of endurance that is less about refusing to stop and more about continuing to learn. Sometimes that means pushing and working through it all. Sometimes it means changing the approach. And sometimes it means building a life that leaves enough room to keep asking, “What else could I try?” And a healthy yet uncommon response of, "How hard could it be?" In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with ultra runner and adventurer Mike Wardian to explore endurance in a much broader sense than simply refusing to stop. Together, they cover: How Mike went from playing Division I lacrosse to discovering marathons, ultra running, and increasingly ambitious endurance challenges Why a healthy “How hard could it be?” mentality has helped him become comfortable trying things before he knows whether he will succeed What it means to willingly become a beginner again How crew support, problem solving, fueling, and an honest internal checklist can help when an endurance event starts to unravel Why having a meaningful “why” matters when external validation isn't enough How Mike has maintained curiosity and motivation across decades The role fear and uncertainty play in choosing challenges that are worth pursuing What Mike’s experiences at the Barkley Marathons taught him about failure and confidence Why endurance should also mean building a life that leaves room to keep learning Whether you are an experienced ultrarunner, considering your first endurance event, or simply interested in what keeps someone curious and motivated over the long run, this conversation offers a different way to think about endurance: not just as the ability to keep going, but as the willingness to keep evolving. Chapter List: 01:04 Introduction to Mike and how he met Bakline, Matt, and Molly 03:38 The Purpose of this Episode: Understanding Elements of Endurance 04:41 The Pacific Crest Trail: Mike's 25-Year Goal 11:17 Early Influences and Inspiration for Mike's Running and Ultra Career 16:55 Ultra Endurance Events and Mike's Healthy 'How hard can it be?' Approach 21:52 Mustering Up the Courage to Try New Things: Rowing Across The Atlantic 29:21 The Importance of Crew Support 29:21 Facing Adversity in Endurance Challenges And What To Do When Things Get Dark 33:57 The Honest Reflection of Endurance and Understanding Your "Why" 37:31 The Craft of Ultra Endurance Events, Staying Curious, and Evolving Your Approach 45:19 Embracing Fear and Uncertainty in Adventure In Order To Find Joy 50:56 Advice for the Ultra-curious Who Think: "That's Just Not Me" and How To Start 55:21 Exploring the Unknown and Embracing Challenges: The Endurance Through Failure 01:01:51 Building Confidence Through both Success and 'Failure' 01:04:30 Authenticity in Sharing the Journey 01:07:25 Connecting with the Community and Final Thoughts

A practical look at how music affects running performance, from cadence and perceived effort to mood, motivation, and the messy science behind your favorite pump song. Narrative SummaryA playlist can feel like a secret weapon, a pacer, a distraction, or a trap. One song can settle you down. Another can make you surge too early. A beat can pull your stride into rhythm without you realizing it. Matt, Molly, and Alex explore the strange and useful space where music meets running: not just as motivation, but as something that can influence cadence, effort, mood, and movement. They look at what the research can tell us, where it falls short, and why the most important variable might still be the person wearing the headphones. The answer is not as clean as “music makes you run faster.” The more interesting answer is that the right song, at the right rhythm, for the right runner, might help you move better, feel better, or hang on a little longer. Episode DescriptionIn this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly are joined by Alex of the Allie G Show to explore how music affects running performance. They start with the songs that get them moving, then dig into what the research says about cadence, perceived effort, mood, motivation, efficiency, and the role music can play when running starts to get hard. Together, they cover: How runners use music differently for workouts, races, long runs, and late-race survivalWhy tempo, beat strength, volume, familiarity, and personal preference all matterHow music can influence cadence, rhythm, and movement synchronizationWhat rate of perceived exertion means, and why music may make the same effort feel easierThe difference between music as motivation, music as distraction, and music as a pacing toolWhy self-selected music often matters more than a generic pump-up songWhat studies on music and running performance actually show, and where the research gets messyWhy treadmill studies, small sample sizes, short testing windows, and hard-to-blind designs limit what we can confidently sayHow runners might use music strategically without becoming dependent on itAlong the way, they talk about Harry Styles, movie soundtracks, pop punk eras, metronomes, race playlists, groovability, and the danger of over-optimizing something that is supposed to help you enjoy the run. Whether you race with headphones, save music for mile 20, use it to survive the treadmill, or prefer to run with nothing but your own thoughts, this episode will help you understand what music can and cannot do for your running. Chapters00:00 Introduction and personal pump song selections by Matt, Molly, and Alex10:35 High-level buckets of scientific impact music has on performance13:49 Variables in music that have been studied as potentially impacting running performance20:45 Additional thoughts on future research directions and musical elements not covered in studies29:45 The impact of music on cadence36:01 Understanding rate of perceived exertion, heart rate, and mood41:48 Metrics and methods that were not as commonly assessed, plus reactions to findings45:21 Limitations of music studies in sports and additional questions that could have been asked55:25 The impact of music on performance in numbers01:05:11 Key learnings from music and exercise studies01:09:37 Interesting observations from studies on how music impacts performance that may not have practical use01:19:02 Personal reflections on music in running, and whether Matt, Molly, or Alex will incorporate any findings in their own running Songs referenced: Scatman by Scatman John As it Was by Harry Styles I'm Shipping Up to Boston by Dropkick Murphys We Take Care Of Our Own by Bruce Springsteen No Time For Caution (Interstellar) by Hanz Zimmer Sk8er Boi by Avril Lavigne Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic by The Police Fire and Rain by James Taylor

A deep dive into the physiology, psychology, and pacing science behind negative splitting in track and road racing, and why the fastest times are often run by athletes willing to start slower to finish stronger. Episode Description: It’s one of running’s oldest pieces of advice and one of its least trusted: don’t go out too fast. Yet every race morning, thousands of runners surge through the opening miles convinced they’ve somehow escaped physiology. The pace feels easy. The crowds are loud. The legs are fresh. Until they aren’t. In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly unpack why the negative split remains one of the most effective and misunderstood strategies in endurance racing. Using Matt’s Boston Marathon breakthrough as a launching point, they explore the science of pacing, glycogen depletion, lactate production, thermoregulation, muscle fiber recruitment, and why “banking time” so often turns into borrowing against a debt the body eventually collects. The conversation moves from elite marathon racing to practical pacing mistakes recreational runners make every weekend. They examine why even slight pacing errors early in a race can create cascading physiological consequences later, why going out too fast feels deceptively easy, and why the body’s warning signals in the final miles are often less about “mental weakness” and more about real biological limits being reached. At the center of the episode is one core idea: don’t bank time, bank energy. Together, they cover: What a negative split actually is, and why it’s more than simply “starting conservative”Why elite marathoners and championship fields overwhelmingly negative split to winThe science of glycogen depletion, fat metabolism, lactate, and endurance energy systemsWhy running slightly too fast early creates disproportionate fatigue laterThe misunderstood relationship between lactate, “lactic acid,” and muscle fatigueHow heat accumulation and cardiovascular drift quietly sabotage racesWhy Boston Marathon pacing strategies often failThe psychological reasons runners still go out too fast despite knowing betterHow progression runs and marathon pace workouts train athletes to finish strongerWhy negative splitting creates more control, confidence, and resilience late in racesThe difference between surviving the final miles and still being able to race themAlong the way, Matt and Molly, compare pacing strategy to maximizing an electric car’s battery range, reflect on the emotional side of racing, and explain why passing people at mile 24 might be one of the best feelings in the sport: ultimate confidence that you puled it off. Whether you’re training for your first half marathon, chasing a marathon PR, trying to break a major time barrier, or simply tired of fading in the final miles, this episode offers a practical and science-backed framework for pacing smarter and racing stronger. Chapter List: 00:00 Episode preview and why negative splits work in brief 02:10 Boston Marathon Experience 06:16 The Negative Split Strategy Explained 11:41 Elite fields overwhelmingly negative split to win 14:56 The science of negative splitting: Let's start with our energy systems 18:04 An analogy: Understanding pacing in the context of maximizing your car's fuel efficiency 23:10 The Role of Glycogen and Fat in Endurance and the misnomer of "lactic acid" 33:09 A slight diversion on the periphery of pacing in context of racing (i.e., high carb vs low carb) 35:44 Understanding why going out too fast is physiologically and mentally a bad idea 44:53 Why a negative split approach physiologically facilitates improved performance in second half of the race 52:14 Reasons why everyone still goes out to fast when they know they shouldn't (the mental side of things) 59:59 Training for Negative Splits 01:10:14 Mental Strategies for Successful Racing

A practical course strategy for Boston that covers race-day logistics, pacing, hills, and fueling, so you don’t give your race away before Heartbreak Hill. The Boston Marathon itself doesn’t test how fit you are. It tests how well you understand what you’re stepping into. It tests how well you can plan and prepare. The course gives you just enough early to make you believe you’re having a great day. Downhills feel free. The pace comes easily. And somewhere between Hopkinton and Wellesley, it’s all too easy to lose sight of the fact that you might be borrowing energy from later you. AIn this episide, youll learn to understand why Boston is hard, how to approach it with intention, and when to hold back even when everything feels right. Boston isn’t about surviving the hills. It’s about arriving at them with something left. Episode Description In this joint episode of the Allie G Show and Legwork, Alex, Matt, and Molly break down how to approach the Boston Marathon from start to finish with three primary sections: race day logistics, a section-by-section course strategy and analysis, and race week and day nutrition and fueling. Drawing on their own experiences across multiple Boston races, they explain why the course is more tactical than it looks—and how small decisions early in the race can shape the final 10K. Together, they cover: How to plan race weekend logistics, including the expo, transportation, and starting village What makes the Boston course deceptively difficult despite being “net downhill” How to pace the early miles so you don’t give back time laterA section-by-section breakdown of the course, including the Wellesley tunnel, Newton Hills, Heartbreak Hill, and the Citgo SignWhy Boston rewards restraint early and patience through the middle milesCommon mistakes runners make in the first 16 miles—and how to avoid themHow to think about fueling, hydration, and carb loading for race week and race dayAdjusting your strategy based on weather, effort, and how the day unfolds, andWhat to expect in the final miles and how to close the race strongAlong the way, they share lessons from past races, including pacing mistakes, fueling issues, and what it actually feels like when the race turns. Whether it’s your first Boston or you’re trying to run it better than last time, this episode gives you a clear framework for approaching the course with intention. Chapter List 00:00 The Allie G Show and Legwork Joint Podcast - An Overview of our Boston Marathon Strategy Episode 03:27 Personal Boston Marathon Journeys 07:13 Role Models In Sport and Mental Approach to Boston 12:48 Getting To The Expo and Bib Pick Up 13:53 Race Morning Planning and Breakfast Strategies 15:34 Transportation To the Start 21:36 Starting Village 25:39 Leaving Starting Village and The Walk To The Start 28:59 Brief Intro to Pre-Race Nutrition 34:31 The Technical Challenge of the Boston Marathon 42:47 Experiences and Lessons from Past Marathons 46:51 The Tactical Nature of the Boston Marathon 47:35 Breaking Down the Course: Elevation and Strategy 48:44 Breaking Down the Course: Elevation and Strategy 51:47 Boston Marathon Section Analysis: The Start Through Mile 4 56:21 Boston Marathon Section Analysis: Mile 4-15 59:07 Boston Marathon Section Analysis: Mile 15.5-21 Newton Hills 01:05:31 Boston Marathon Section Analysis: Mile 21-24 Post Heartbreak Downhill Stretch 01:09:22 Boston Marathon Section Analysis: Final 2 Miles and your Left on Hereford, Right on Boyleston 01:11:06 Nutrition Leading Up To and During The Race - Carbloading! 01:17:35 Nutrition on Race Morning 01:19:06 Science of Fueling Generally and On Course Nutrition 01:22:45 Hydration On The Course (Gatorade) 01:30:15 Adjusting Your Race Day Nutrition Strategy Depending on Weather and Fueling For Recovery 01:34:22 Post-Race Recovery and Celebrations

A focused guide to using heat training during winter—why it works, what adaptations you’re actually chasing, and how to implement sauna, hot water immersion, or layering protocols safely and strategically. Heat training is usually framed as something you do before a hot race. But the physiological adaptations don’t care what month it is. Plasma volume expansion, improved thermal regulation, and cardiovascular efficiency can all support training during winter—even if race day will be cold. This episode is an edited and streamlined version of Episode 4, where we originally covered heat training in depth. Here, we’ve removed the broader discussion of racing in hot environments and narrowed the focus to one question: How can runners use heat protocols intentionally during winter training to enhance performance? Episode Description This episode is a practical, research-backed breakdown of how to apply heat training protocols during winter running. Matt and Molly revisit the primary studies that shaped their understanding of heat adaptation, then walk through: Why heat training matters beyond hot race preparation The physiological mechanisms behind heat adaptations The three core methods for inducing heat stress How to implement layering, sauna, and hot water immersion during winter How long adaptations last and how to maintain them When to schedule heat exposure within a training cycle Key safety considerations to avoid digging a recovery hole Rather than treating heat training as seasonal, this episode reframes it as a tool. One that, when applied carefully, can support cardiovascular development, resilience, and recovery during winter blocks when training quality matters most. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Heat Training and Personal Experiences Driving Our Understanding 01:11 Context for Episode And Focus On Heat Training Protocols During Winter Training 02:23 The Primary Studies We Reviewed In Preparation For This Episode 03:57 Major Reasons Why You Should Care About Heat Training 06:39 Why Running In The Heat Is Challenging 11:41 Anecdotal Experience with Heat Training In Recent Ultra Performances 13:30 The Three Heat Training Methods We Cover and General Physiological Benefits of Heat Training 14:37 Thermal Regulation and Adaptations 16:46 Protocol by Protocol Analysis 17:09 Protocol 2: Adding Layers to Augment Heat of The Natural Environment 36:28 Protocol 3: Hot Dry Sauna and Hot Water Immersion (HWI) - Actual Implementation Steps 38:39 Protocol 3: Hot Sauna Benefits and Considerations 41:01 Protocol 3: How Water Immersion (HWI) Benefits and Considerations 46:03 Maintaining Heat Training Adaptations 48:26 Timing and Strategy for Heat Training 52:31 Safety Considerations When Heat Training Top 5 Takeaways Heat training is not just for hot races.The adaptations—plasma volume expansion, improved cardiovascular efficiency, and thermoregulation—can support winter training blocks as well. Layering and passive heat exposure are often the most practical winter tools.You don’t need a hot climate. Strategic layering during runs or post-workout sauna/HWI can induce meaningful adaptations. The goal is controlled stress, not exhaustion.You’re chasing adaptation, not dehydration or glycogen depletion. Overdoing it can compromise recovery. Adaptations are transient but quickly re-established.Benefits can fade within roughly two weeks without exposure, but can often be restored in just a few sessions. Safety matters more in winter than people think.Heat protocols layered onto hard winter training can create cumulative stress. Hydration, fueling, iron status, and recovery awareness are essential.

Always training, never improving? How periodization fixes your running by helping you plan an entire season, not just the next race. Most runners know how to train for a race. Far fewer know how to train for a season. Trusting that a more holistic approach to your training over a year, can be daunting, but it doesn't have to be. This episode examines why so many runners feel stuck in a cycle of constant training, frequent racing, and nagging fatigue. Matt and Molly explore how the pressure to always be “in shape” or “race ready” quietly erodes long-term progress, and why time off is not a failure of discipline but a necessary part of improvement. Drawing from coaching experience, personal mistakes, and the realities of modern running culture, they unpack periodization as more than a buzzword. Instead, it becomes a framework for understanding when to push, when to build, when to sharpen, and when to step back. The conversation reframes downtime as productive, structure as liberating rather than restrictive, and progress as something measured over months and years, not just race weekends. Episode Description: In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly tackle one of the most overlooked problems in running: training hard all the time without getting better. They break down periodization, not as a rigid system reserved and eligible for elite athletes, but as a practical way to think about an entire training year. From off-seasons and base building to race-specific preparation and recovery, they explain how each phase fits together, and why skipping any of them often leads to burnout, stagnation, or injury. Together, they cover: Why racing too often can stall progress and increase injury risk What periodization actually means, beyond downloaded 16-week plans The role of the offseason and why time off does not equal lost fitness How to structure transition, preparatory, pre-competition, and competition phases Where Zone 2 training, strength work, and volume really belong in a season How to balance social running, races, and long-term goals Common mistakes runners make when they’re always training but never improving Along the way, Matt and Molly share personal examples, coaching insights, and practical ways to rethink your relationship with training. Whether you’re chasing a PR, navigating a packed race calendar, or trying to stay healthy year after year, this episode offers a clearer framework for planning smarter and running better. Chapter List: 00:00 Introduction and Reflections on Needing To Take Time Off 03:05 Managing the Offseason: Insights and Strategies 06:26 Why We Wanted To Do This Episode and Our Agenda 11:47 Overview of Running Plan Periodization And Phases Of a Training Cycle 15:05 Major Benefits of Incorporating All Of these Phases In A Training Cycle 22:07 Transition Phase: A Methodical Approach Between Major Training Bouts 38:09 Preparatory Phase: Building Your Base, Your Strength, And Engine 44:03 Preparatory Phase: Where Zone 2 Training Sits and Increased Aerobic Volume 48:52 Preparatory Phase: Balancing Volume and Intensity and Lifting 55:59 Pre-Competition Phase: Fine-Tuning the Engine 01:02:25 Pre-Competition Phase Cross Training, Strength Training, and Recap 01:09:35 Competition Phase: Race Specific Training 01:17:55 Post-Race Transition and Recovery

A live conversation with Nick Thompson on curiosity, endurance, and a complicated relationship with both a father and the simplest of sports: running. This conversation between Nick Thompson and David Alm, a Brooklyn-based journalist, professor, and runner, offers a window to Nick’s process in writing The Running Ground, and to the people, stories, and moments that made it into the final draft and what didn't. Recorded live at Bakline’s HQ, the episode captures Nick in dialogue rather than interview, reflecting with David on the journalistic process, the discipline of editing, and the characters in his life, most notably his father, who shaped the person he has become. There is much to be gained from reading or listening to The Running Ground, the audio version of which Nick himself narrates. Its opening chapter alone should be required reading for anyone preparing to step onto the New York City Marathon starting line. What emerges in this rare and candid conversation, though, is something broader: a meditation on perspective and curiosity, and on how our understanding of our own abilities shifts over time. Along the way, Nick reflects on his relationship with his father and the role running has played in his ability to build and maintain a truly exceptional life, offering insight on how the sport can not only facilitate escape and drive, but also help us make sense of the world. At its core, this conversation speaks to the importance of paying attention: to our bodies, to the relationships we build, and to the quiet ways we can learn to embrace all that makes us who we are–rather than trying to outrun it. Special thanks to the Brooklyn Greenway Initiative and The Atlantic for their support of this event. Chapter List: 00:00 Introduction and Background 04:43 The Journey of Writing The Running Ground 10:14 Exploring Personal Connections and Themes 21:16 The Editorial Process: Structure and Format 24:14 The Editorial Process: The People Who Have Entered Nick's Life and Imparted Key Lessons 30:18 Writing About Yourself Journalistically 36:50 The Pain of Running and Broader Life Lessons  42:19 The Endurance Of Running and Its Impact on Nick 45:20 Approaching Running with Undying Curiosity 50:23 Pushing Limits: Personal Records and Race Experiences 53:54 Cultural Influences on Running and Personal Growth 55:13 Q&A: Current State of Running Culture 58:51 Q&A: Fatherhood, Relationships, and Emotional Connections 01:02:09 Q&A: Media Industry Insights and the Role of Running 01:02:44 Q&A: Nick's Personal Pursuits and Current State of Media 01:07:55 Q&A: Exploring Personal Archives and Memoir Writing 01:11:18 Q&A: Recommended Running Literature 01:12:44 Q&A: Evolving Running Goals With Age 01:18:25 Q&A: Favorite Greenway Runs and Community Engagement 01:20:58 Promoting the Book and Final Thoughts Key Takeaways Perspective shapes ability  One of the central insights of the conversation is that limits are often internal before they are physical. Nick’s experience shows how a shift in perspective can unlock capacities we didn’t realize were still available. Endurance is less about toughness and more about attention Running emerges not as an exercise in brute force, but as a practice in listening to your body, and to your pain. The same attentiveness applies beyond sport, shaping how we can move through work and stress. Understanding a parent often requires time, distance, and reconstruction Nick’s reflections on his father are not about resolution, but context. Through diaries, archives, interviews, and memory, he comes to see how running helped his father hold together a complicated life. Curiosity sustains long arcs better than optimization Whether in running, writing, or navigating change at a major organization, curiosity proves more enduring than a fixation on outcomes.

From trial and error to precision, this episode unpacks why knowing how salty a sweater you are can unlock better fueling, hydration, and performance. Episode Description:  Most runners know when their legs are tired, when their heart rate is higher than they'd like, and when their watch disagrees with reality, but far fewer know what’s actually happening in their sweat. And yet, hidden in those grains of salt is a story about performance, cramping, gut trouble, bonking, and why two athletes with identical race fuel and hydration plans can do the same race with wildly different outcomes. In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly talk with Andy Blow — endurance athlete, sports scientist, and founder of Precision Fuel & Hydration, to explore the messy, fascinating world of electrolytes. From Andy’s own battles with hypernatremia to the science behind sweat testing, the conversation pulls apart the myths, marketing, and misunderstandings that keep athletes guessing. It’s a journey from personal experiment to practical insight, showing how something as simple as knowing your sweat composition can reshape your entire fueling strategy and help you be a more informed athlete. Whether your kit dries white after every run or leaves almost nothing behind, this episode helps you understand why it matters and how your electrolyte losses can guide smarter fueling and hydration. They cover: ​Andy’s winding path from triathlon to sports science to founding Precision Fuel & Hydration​Why two athletes can lose tenfold different amounts of sodium — and why that matters​How sweat testing works, what it reveals, and why most athletes only need to do it once​The “t-shirt sizing” analogy for understanding your own sweat salinity​How electrolytes influence fuel absorption, cramps, GI distress, and race-day performance​The philosophy behind separating fuel from hydration — and why combination products aren’t always ideal​Real-world examples of hydration strategies, from short runs to Western States-level heat​What 2:1 vs. 1:0.8 carb ratios actually mean, and when those differences matter​The differences between hypotonic, isotonic, and hypertonic drinks​Why marketing oversimplifies hydration — and how to navigate the noise​Research connecting sweat composition to bone mineral density​Finding a healthy relationship with data, wearables, and metrics​Future innovations in sports nutrition — from packaging to apparel to carrying fuel more comfortablyWhether you're training for your first 10K or trying to solve the mystery of mid-race cramps, this episode helps you understand your physiology — and build a hydration strategy that actually fits. Chapter List:  00:00 Introduction to Precision Fuel and Hydration 03:09 Andy's Personal and Professional Career Path 05:41 Andy Blow's Athletic Journey and Founding Story 06:26 The Science Behind Sweat Testing and Electrolyte Needs 09:26 Growth and Evolution of Precision Fuel and Hydration 12:38 The Impact of COVID-19 on Business Strategy 16:11 Philosophy of Separation in Fuel and Hydration Products And the Myth That None of It Matters 20:56 The Role of Electrolytes in Performance 23:53 Insights from Formula 1 Experience 26:51 The Importance of Sweat Testing for Athletes 27:13 Getting Into The Science Of It All, T-Shirt Sizing The Salinity Of Your Sweat And The Case For Seeking Out That Information 37:38 Hydration Strategies for Athletes 42:35 Understanding Carbohydrate Ratios in Fueling 50:13 The Science of Osmolality in Sports Drinks 53:57 Evolving Beliefs in Sports Nutrition 59:01 Andy's Research on Sweat Salinity and Bone Health 01:03:37 The Role of Data in Athletic Performance 01:08:37 Future Innovations in Sports Nutrition and Gear

A clear, grounded look at strength training for runners—what to do, how to start, and why the gym doesn’t need to feel overwhelming. Strength training is supposed to make running feel better—stronger legs, sturdier tendons, fewer injuries. But for a lot of runners, it does the opposite: it sparks stress, uncertainty, and that familiar urge to skip the gym entirely. The machines look confusing, the weights look heavy, and the fear of “doing it wrong” becomes its own workout. In this episode, Matt and Molly sit down with physical therapist Cuyler Hudson to make strength training feel genuinely approachable. They break down how muscles, tendons, and bones adapt, why “bulking up” isn’t something runners need to fear, and how simple, consistent lifting can support your running without adding pressure.` From navigating the weight room with confidence to choosing weights, reps, and routines that make sense, this conversation reframes strength work as something you can fit into your training with a clear and practical roadmap—not something to stress over. Exercise Cheatsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18lD9J0t1QrNQXjoqioAkNn1xav_LSUoycuuMSZcBcng/edit?usp=sharing Episode Description In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with physical therapist Cuyler Hudson to cover a ton of practical information for newbies and reminders for veterans. Together, they demystify strength training for runners—what to do, how to start, and why the gym doesn’t need to feel intimidating. Together, they explore the fundamentals of building stronger muscles, bones, and tendons, while breaking down the mental and practical barriers that keep so many runners from lifting in the first place. They cover: Why strength training helps runners from tendon stiffness and bone density to fatigue resistance and better form Myths that hold runners back How to feel less intimidated in the gym Using machines vs. dumbbells Single-leg work and why it matters with increased stability, and better balance How to pick weights and reps when understanding your RPE Plyometrics made simple Home and hotel workouts that work when you don’t have access to a gym Creatine for runners and what it does and doesn't help Footwear for lifting and why running shoes often work against you in the weight room How to fit strength into a training cycle including hard-day/hard-day pairing The Necessity of Multi-planar movement Chapter List 00:00 Introduction to Cuyler Hudson 02:24 Overview Of The Episode: The Benefits of Strength for Runners, Making the Gym More Approachable, And What To Do When You Get There 03:53 The Benefits of Strength For Runners Across Muscles, Bones, and Tendons 08:57 Debunking Common Myths About Strength For Runners: Bulking Up and Slowing Down 15:06 Impact of Strength Training on Running Performance 21:15 Reducing the Mental and Physical Barriers of Entry in Getting Into and Moving About The Gym 22:23 Using Machines vs. Free Weights 25:21 The Importance of Single Leg Exercises 27:56 Addressing the Fear of Asking Questions About The Gym and Turning To ChatGPT for Answers 33:28 Understanding Weight Selection for Beginners 39:37 Progressing in Strength Training: Reps and Weights. How much is too much or too little. 42:43 Home Workouts: Effective Exercises Without a Gym 49:55 Bodyweight Exercises, Hotel Workouts, and Where Yoga and Breathing Fit In 57:42 Fueling and Hydration for Strength Training 01:02:21 Understanding Creatine and Its Benefits In the Weight Room Or On The Road 01:05:26 Fueling for Performance: Nutrition and Hydration, What We Should Do and Avoid 01:08:34 Choosing the Right Footwear for Lifting 01:10:38 Understanding Different Workout Types And Workout Set Construction 01:17:00 Layering In Strength Training Program Into A Running Training Cycle 01:20:34 Off-Season Strength Training Strategies And Time Till You See Results 01:23:34 Ensuring you Do Multi-Planar Movements 01:26:38 Addressing Strength and Endurance Interference

How to taper with confidence and pace your best NYC Marathon, mile after mile. You’ve done the training for the NYC Marathon. Now comes the hardest part—trusting yourself. The taper and pacing strategy often get too little attention, too late. We set time goals, have a rough pace in mind, and let it rip. But if we don’t approach the start line with intention, we risk losing the discipline that gets us to the finish we want. In this episode, Matt and Molly offer a framework for thinking about the taper—how long it should last, how much intensity to keep—and the pacing strategies that make or break your race, including the scariest of them all: the negative split. You’ll come away better equipped to manage the restlessness of race week, hold back early when the crowds surge, and finish the NYC Marathon feeling strong instead of spent. Episode Description In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take on the final stretch before the NYC Marathon—the taper, pacing strategy, and mindset that shape how race day unfolds. It’s the stage that can spark as much anxiety as excitement: mileage drops, energy shifts, and the urge to “prove fitness” in those final days before the race can undo weeks of good training. They unpack what runners often overlook in these last few weeks and how small, intentional adjustments can lead to a stronger, more controlled race. Together, they cover: The Taper: How long it should last, how much volume to cut, and why intensity still matters Managing Race Week: Why restlessness is normal—and how to handle it with patience instead of panic Carb Loading Basics: How to approach it across several days instead of one big pre-race meal Race Planning and Visualization: How to approach the NYC Marathon with intention, not adrenaline Pacing Strategies: The key frameworks for smart racing—negative splitting, the 10-10-10 rule, and even-effort pacing Weather Considerations: Adapting expectations when conditions get hot, humid, or windy Through coaching insight, data, and experience, they show that finishing strong isn’t about squeezing in one last workout—it’s about executing the work you’ve already done. Whether you’re chasing a PR, a BQ, or simply looking to enjoy the day, this episode helps you line up calm, confident, and ready to run your best NYC Marathon. Chapter List: 00:00 Introduction to Part 2 of Our NYC Marathon Course Strategy and Carb Loading In Brief 06:40 How To Manage The Emotions of The Taper 08:58 The Taper: How Long, and How Much Volume 16:30 The Taper: Level of Intensity and Impact to Performance 23:36 Race Planning and Strategy, and Race Day Visualiztion 27:22 Primary Marathon Pacing Strategies: Even Effort v Even Paces, Negative Splitting, and The 10-10-10 Approach 34:32 Weather Considerations for Race Day 36:24 Final Thoughts and Advice: Do Not Go Out Too Fast! For an in depth look at race day logistics and segment by segment look at the course, see Part 1 (Bonus Episode 1).

Bakline’s guide to tackling the TCS NYC Marathon—section by section, from the Verrazzano to Central Park. It starts early—hours before the start gun—with runners moving through the slow ritual of getting to Staten Island. The ferry’s crowded and buzzing, the buses crawl through traffic, and everyone’s half awake, half anxious, wondering if they packed enough snacks. It’s all part of the race before the race. Matt and Molly break down what that morning really feels like, and how to handle every stretch of the TCS New York City Marathon once you finally hit hear the cannon that sets you on your way. Episode Description In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take runners mile by mile through the world’s most iconic marathon: New York City. Drawing on their personal experiences and coaching insights, they unpack every element of race day—from pre-dawn logistics on Staten Island to the emotional charge of entering Central Park. Matt and Molly cover the practical details that make or break a smooth race morning—timing breakfast, navigating transport, managing nerves, and adjusting for daylight savings—before diving deep into a section-by-section course strategy. From the Verrazzano Bridge to First Avenue to the final turn onto Central Park South, they share what to expect, where to hold back, and how to find rhythm amid the crowds. Whether it’s your first time running New York or your tenth, this episode gives you the insider perspective to approach the course with confidence, calm, and respect for the challenge. NOTE: This podcast episode is not affiliated in any way with New York Road Runners nor do we claim any association or ownership related to their trademarks. This is an informational discussion about the race by Bakline, based on our experience and not as an official spokesperson for the organization that puts on the marathon. Chapter List 00:00 Introduction and Personal Experiences with the New York City Marathon 06:58 Course Strategy Overview and Key Elements 07:44 Getting to Staten Island 09:02 Timing Your Breakfasts and Remembering Daylight Savings 11:23 Race Morning Checklist 13:30 Getting to The Start: The Ferry 18:21 Getting to The Start: The Bus 20:56 Navigating Athletes / Starting Village 25:26 Starting Line Wave Times 28:02 The Course: Overall Elevation Profile 30:30 The Course: (1) Navigating the Verrazano Bridge 34:51 The Course: (2) Exiting the Verrazzano, Converging with Others, and Fourth Ave 37:49 The Course: (3) Lafayette Through The Half 44:45 The Course: (4) Queens and The Queensboro Bridge 50:36 The Course: (5) First Ave, Heading to the Bronx 56:49 The Course: (6) The Boogie Down Bronx Experience 59:08 The Course: (7) Returning to Manhattan, Marcus Garvey Park, And the Dreaded 5th Avenue Hill 01:02:57 The Course: (8) Entering Central Park! 01:05:42 The Course: (9) Exiting The Park, Central Park South, and the Finish!

A practical framework for fueling that explores the history and science of race nutrition to help you understand the products on the shelf, turning confusion into confidence. It starts with a wall of brightly colored gels and drink mixes, each promising endurance in a pouch. Runners swear by their favorites, but few can explain why they work—or don’t. Matt and Molly pull back the curtain on the science and history behind those packets, turning a maze of sugar ratios, salt counts, and gut grumbles into something you can actually understand. They examine why some products seem to love you while others ruin your race, practically breaking down the make up of different products out there, and what the science actually says about how our bodies use all this stuff. Episode Description: In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take on one of running’s most confusing topics: fueling. They trace how we went from ancient “performance foods” to modern gels and drink mixes, and why understanding what’s inside those packets can make all the difference. Together, they cover: How fueling evolved from ancient rituals to modern sports science The difference between energy systems — carbs, fats, and how the body actually uses them What “isotonic,” “hypertonic,” and “2:1 ratios” really mean, and how those formulas affect absorption and gut comfort Why some products upset your stomach while others don’t How to approach carb loading and in-race fueling more strategically The myths and mistakes that keep runners underfueled And how to navigate the wall of options on the shelf with more confidence Along the way, they share personal fueling mishaps (including Matt’s maple syrup era), laugh through gut science, and translate complex research into clear, practical insight. Whether you’re training for your first half marathon or trying to shave minutes off a PR, this episode will help you understand what your body needs — and fuel smarter for whatever’s next. Fuel Selector Google Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u7Rh8LWrgB_9B3kKKpKMwTEnqXyRcc0js1UYw4vwTCg/edit?usp=sharing Chapter List: 00:00 Introduction, Matt's Fueling Eras, and Why This Episode Matters 09:08 Agenda for the Episode 10:00 Historical Perspectives on Nutrition and Performance 16:09 The Evolution of Sports Training and Nutrition 20:06 Understanding Energy Systems: Carbs 29:22 Understanding Energy Systems: Fats 40:15 The Impact of Carbohydrates on Performance 47:07 Understanding How Nutrition Products Incorporate What We Know Of These Energy Systems Into Their Formulas 49:27 Understanding Sugar Ratios in Sports Nutrition 55:21 Isotonic vs Hypertonic Fuels: What You Need to Know 01:04:49 Carbohydrate Requirements for Endurance Events 01:13:17 The Importance of Carb Loading Before Races 01:28:03 Troubleshooting Nutrition Issues During Races References: Currell K, Jeukendrup AE. Superior endurance performance with ingestion of multiple transportable carbohydrates. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008 Feb;40(2):275-81. doi: 10.1249/mss.0b013e31815adf19. PMID: 18202575. Sedlock DA. The latest on carbohydrate loading: a practical approach. Curr Sports Med Rep. 2008 Jul-Aug;7(4):209-13. doi: 10.1249/JSR.0b013e31817ef9cb. PMID: 18607222. Arnall, D.A., A.G. Nelson, J. Quigley, et al. Supercompensated glycogen loads persist 5 days in resting trained cyclists. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 99:251Y256, 2007. Jeukendrup, A.E. Training the Gut for Athletes. Sports Med 47 (Suppl 1), 101–110 (2017). https://doi.org/10.1007/s40279-017-0690-6 W Larry Kenney,Jack H Wilmore,David L Costill. Physiology of Sport and Exercise 8th Edition s

More than America’s oldest ultramarathon, the JFK 50 endures because of the kindness, community, and love that Mike Spinnler has nurtured across generations. Most races don’t last six decades. Every November, the JFK 50 unfolds across the Appalachian Trail, a canal towpath, and country roads as a 50-mile test that has become the oldest continuously running ultramarathon in the United States. But what makes it endure isn’t just the course or its history. It’s the people who return year after year, the community that shows up in droves to ensure this race will not quit, and the race director who has quietly shaped it for more than three decades as only the second in its history. Mike Spinnler has been at the heart of the JFK 50 as runner, champion, and steward, carrying forward a tradition that continues to inspire generations. He is, in many ways, the archetype of a role model. In this conversation, we reflect on how the course has shaped the athletes who run it, the volunteers who support it, and the man who has devoted his life to directing it. Episode Description: In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with Mike Spinnler, race director of the JFK 50, the oldest continuously run ultramarathon in the United States. They explore how the race has endured for more than 60 years — and why it continues to inspire across generations. Together, they cover: Mike’s journey from 12-year-old participant to champion, and eventually to race director The stewardship lessons he learned from Buzz Sawyer and Greg Shank, and how he carries their legacy forward How kindness, community, and love have shaped the race as much as rules, permits, and logistics The role of volunteers, families, and local communities in sustaining the JFK 50 The balance between tradition and change — from aid stations and cutoffs to super shoes and evolving strategies The challenges of race directing: from financial risk to government shutdowns, blizzards, and even the Beltway sniper What inspires Mike personally, and how he knows, without any doubt, the JFK 50 will thrive long after he steps aside Whether you’re a seasoned ultrarunner, a first-time marathoner, or someone who simply cares about what makes communities strong, this episode offers an inside look at why the JFK 50 is more than just a race — it’s a living legacy. Chapter List 00:00 Introduction to JFK 50 and Mike Spinnler Journey 08:51 Mike's Early Running Experiences and Influences 13:52 Transitioning to Competitive Running, And Winning the JFK50 23:47 Becoming the Race Director of JFK 50, And How Having the Best Partner Helps 30:39 How the JFK Keeps Going 35:58 The Importance of a Team Behind You And Delegation 39:13 Resilience and Persistence in the Face of Persistent and Resilient Challenges 42:56 Navigating Change and Tradition 45:33 The Role of Aid Stations in Leveling The Playing Field 53:58 The Famous 3 x 10m Marathon Paced (In a Day) Workout 01:00:57 Approaching Mike's Directing of the JFK50 More As A Coach Than An Administrator 01:05:10 Impact of Shoe Technology 01:06:52 Weaverton Cliffs And Watching Your Step 01:08:10 Navigating the Appalachian Trail 01:10:09 The Magic Of JFK50 Aid Stations And Volunteer Community 01:18:02 Advice for New Runners of the JFK50 01:24:37 For Mike, the JFK50 is like Christmas Morning And He's Excited To See What Will Happen 01:27:09 Supporting Runners Through ALL Paces, Not Just The Leaders 01:30:00 The Personal Impact of Race Directing And The Obligation Mike Feels To Those That Have Not Experienced The Race 01:35:08 Spontaneous Selflessness and Humanity Is All Around 01:39:38 Reflecting On How JFK50 Has Changed Him, The Power of Sports, And Giving Back 01:48:38 Advice Time: The Inside Tips On A Successful JFK50 02:02:23 Final Reflections

A practical guide to hiring a running coach — when to seek one, how to choose and work with one confidently, and why they can make all the difference. Most runners think about hiring a coach only when they’re chasing a big PR or a major race. But the reality is that coaching isn’t just for elites, and it isn’t just about getting faster. The right coach at the right time can help you break through plateaus, return from setbacks with confidence, or simply take the decision fatigue out of training. And while coaching can be transformative, not every coach–athlete match works—knowing what to look for (and what to avoid) can make all the difference. Episode Description In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take a practical look at the when, how, and why of hiring a running coach. Drawing on their own experiences as athletes and coaches, they explore what makes the coaching relationship truly valuable beyond the plan itself—and how runners can get the most out of it. They walk through the key parts of the process: Why runners hire coaches — from chasing performance goals to wanting structure, support, or accountability Common barriers to hiring — cost, feeling like you're not worthy of coaching or that you need to be faster, or the social elements of running with a club or with your friends (all of which a good coach can help you manage and feel confident) What coaches can (and can’t) do — from individualized plans and race strategy to dispelling myths about gait analysis (which really can't be done visually) or “magic workouts” How to evaluate a coach — key questions to ask, understanding certifications, and exploring what experience they have with people like you How to be coachable — building trust, communicating openly, and knowing when it might be time to move on Red flags to watch for — warning signs that a coaching relationship may not be the right fit Whether you’re considering coaching for the first time, thinking about switching coaches, or simply looking to get more from the relationship you already have, this episode gives you the tools to approach coaching with clarity and confidence. Chapters 00:00 Our First Interaction With A Coach in High School 06:18 The Why, When, and How of Finding A Coach - Our Agenda 07:59 All The Reasons Runners Might Hire A Coach - Good And Bad 16:47 Primary Drivers Behind What Prevents us or is a Barrier to Hiring a Coach 26:11 How Coaches Can Help Athletes 33:31 Coaching Can Help In Understanding How Running Should Feel And Integrating Strength 39:40 The Role of Coaches in Race Planning 41:37 Setting Expectations: Things Coaches Can't Do (Like Visual Gait Analysis) 51:17 Setting Expectations: There is No Magic Workout or Secret Sauce 53:50 Communicating What We Want and Need Out of Coaching 01:04:48 Questions You Should Ask A Potential Coach 01:10:35 Evaluating Coach Qualifications and Certifications 01:22:47 How to Be A Coachable Athlete 01:33:38 Identifying Red Flags in Coaching Relationships 01:42:54 When It Might Be Time To Leave A Coach Key Takeaways Coaching is about more than a plan. An individualized workout schedule is the bare minimum. The true value comes from problem-solving and helping athletes maximize training around the realities of life. Know your reasons for hiring a coach. Performance goals, structure, accountability, or breaking plateaus are all valid motivations—but intrinsic motivation matters most. Set realistic expectations. Coaches can’t provide magic workouts or fix biomechanics with a glance. What they can do is help you train smarter. Evaluate both sides of the relationship. Ask potential coaches about their philosophy, experience with athletes like you, and how they stay current. Be honest with yourself about what you need. Watch for red flags and know when to move on. Signs include coaches who don’t listen, insist on absolutes (“everyone must run 180 cadence”), take credit for your success but dodge responsibility for setbacks.

A practical guide to heat training for endurance runners —why it works, the science behind it, and how to apply protocols to boost performance year-round. Most non-elite endurance athletes are leaving performance gains on the table. Heat training—often dismissed as something you only do before a hot race—is one of the most misunderstood and underutilized tools in the sport. Done right, it can boost cardiovascular capacity, improve recovery, and prepare you to train harder for longer—no matter the conditions on race day. In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly explore the overlooked benefits and surprising versatility of heat training. Through stories from their own racing and coaching, they show how it can be more than a summer survival skill—it’s a year-round performance weapon hiding in plain sight. Episode Description This episode is your practical, research-backed guide to heat training—covering nearly everything an endurance athlete needs to know to apply it effectively and safely. Matt and Molly break down the most up-to-date science on how heat affects performance, the physiological adaptations you’re aiming for, and the three proven methods to achieve them: ​Training in hot environments to closely mimic race conditions​Layering to simulate heat when the weather won’t cooperate​Passive post-workout heat exposure like saunas or hot-water immersion They explain how to choose the right method for your situation—or make the most of the method you have available—and how to time it so benefits carry through to your race. You’ll also learn how long adaptations last, how to maintain them, and what to watch for in hydration, fueling, and recovery to avoid setbacks. Whether your target race is hot, cool, or somewhere in between, this episode gives you the tools to use heat training with precision—and see results when it matters most. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Heat Training and Personal Experiences Driving Our Understanding 05:49 The Primary Studies We Reviewed In Preparation For Our Heat Training Episode 08:05 Major Reasons Why You Should Care About Heat Training 12:42 Why Running In The Heat Is Challenging 20:21 Anecdotal Experience with Heat Training In Recent Ultra Performances 23:28 The Three Heat Training Methods We Cover and General Physiological Benefits of Heat Training 28:32 Thermal Regulation and Adaptations 31:12 Protocol by Protocol Analysis 32:53 Protocol 1: Training In A Hot Environment 46:06 Protocol 2: Adding Layers to Augment Heat of The Natural Environment 01:06:39 Protocol 3: Hot Dry Sauna and Hot Water Immersion (HWI) - Actual Implementation Steps 01:10:48 Protocol 3: Hot Sauna Benefits and Considerations 01:14:17 Protocol 3: How Water Immersion (HWI) Benefits and Considerations 01:19:35 Maintaining Heat Training Adaptations 01:22:56 Timing and Strategy for Heat Training 01:27:20 Safety Considerations When Heat Training Top 5 Takeaways ​Heat training is underutilized by most non-elite athletes—and can deliver benefits year-round, not just for hot races.​Three general methods to consider, some with higher efficacy than others but all can practically aid you: hot-environment training, layering to simulate heat, and passive heat exposure post-workout.​Core adaptations include increased plasma volume, earlier/more efficient sweating, electrolyte conservation, and lower core temperature.​Adaptations fade quickly—often within two weeks without exposure—but can be restored in as little as two days.​Safety is critical: hydrate before and after, adjust fueling for greater glycogen use, and be aware of individual risks like anemia.