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Shawn Johnson was the all around world champion at 15 and an Olympic champion at 16. Gold on the balance beam in Beijing and three silvers, a nationwide tour, and a Dancing With the Stars trophy before she finished high school. She did all of it while trying to hide at school that she was a gymnast. She got there from a gym in West Des Moines where her coach, Liang Chow, took the team to Dairy Queen after practice and had one rule, no skiing. Her parents picked him because it saved gas money, then vetted him for being a good human rather than a good coach. When the national team doctor was Larry Nassar, Chow never let her be treated without him in the room. She calls herself one of the lucky ones. Then everything changed. On her 18th birthday she broke Chow’s one rule, tore her knee apart on the last run of the day at Beaver Creek, skied down the mountain and carried the Olympic torch in Vancouver before she saw a doctor. She came back for 2012 and the obsession that made her a champion had nowhere to go. Eating disorders. A doctor who prescribed Adderall to curb her appetite, which turned into almost every day for five years. Three full knee reconstructions. She retired weeks before the 2012 trials with her heart gone from the sport. This week I sat down with Shawn, a dear friend, to talk about going numb at the Olympics at 16, the five weeks she did not see her parents in Beijing, the armed guard outside her hotel room in Rio, why the US is built for beam and floor and not bars, the blind date with Andrew East that got her to Nashville, and the day she stood in an airport and decided she was done with Adderall for good. Three kids, a podcast with Andrew, a New York Times bestseller they wrote together, and she still flips around with the kids. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Shawn: @shawnjohnson Her book with Andrew: The Courage to Commit Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Shawn Johnson (00:26) Three Kids and Coming Out of the Clouds (01:42) Growing Up in West Des Moines (01:58) A Coach From China (02:57) The Team Doctor (04:00) Never Without Chow in the Room (06:08) In the ER Every Two Weeks (06:41) Her Parents Vetted Chow (08:11) Kids Sports Are Crazy (10:46) Like Winning More Than You Dislike Training (12:07) Sponsor Break OMRE (14:34) World Champion at 15 (15:34) Hooked on Day One (16:27) Nationals at Nine (18:18) Why She Quit (18:36) Gold on the Beam (20:49) How a Team Gets Built (22:41) Bars Think Gumby (25:22) Numb at the Olympics (27:20) Five Weeks Without Her Parents (28:30) An AK 47 Outside Her Door (28:47) Hiding It at School (30:46) The Tour and Dancing With the Stars (31:40) Throwing Up Backstage (33:18) Second to Melissa Rycroft (35:01) The One Rule Was No Skiing (35:14) Her 18th Birthday at Beaver Creek (36:21) Carrying the Torch on a Torn Knee (37:51) I Want to Come Back (39:03) Control (39:48) Eating Disorders (40:39) Adderall (41:34) Obsessiveness Is a Gift (44:24) Ken on Adderall (45:07) Prescribed to Curb Her Appetite (46:50) Standing in an Airport (47:23) Five Years (48:20) Her Heart Was Gone (49:56) You Will Never Beat the Schedule (51:03) A Moms Fear of Getting Hurt (53:14) Mommy Won All the Medals (55:58) A Blind Date Set Up by His Brother (57:22) Stanford and Vanderbilt (58:41) NIL Money (1:00:16) The Apprentice (1:01:32) Five Years in the NFL (1:04:24) Shawn Johnsons Husband (1:05:09) Andrew the Pilot (1:07:51) The Podcast (1:08:52) AG1 and Kat Cole (1:09:29) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kat Cole grew up in Jacksonville in a family where the men drank, the money was tight and almost nobody kept a job. When she was nine her mom left her father, worked multiple jobs and fed three girls on a $10 a week food budget for three years. Kat’s answer when her mom said they were leaving: what took you so long. She was selling jeans in a mall at 15 to help the family, started at Hooters as a hostess in high school, and by 20 the company had moved her into the corporate office to run training and openings around the world. Vice president at 26. At 32 Roark Capital handed her Cinnabon, 400 stores and $300 million in revenue, getting beaten up by the recession. She spent her first 60 days rolling cinnamon rolls, asked every employee the same three questions, launched a smaller roll, put the brand in grocery stores and tripled it to a billion dollars. COO of the parent company at 36, nine presidents and $3 billion in revenue reporting to her. Today she runs AG1. This week I sat down with Kat to talk about how she leads. The WTF email from a franchisee that cost her millions to make right, the two bosses who called her into an office at 21 and said we are worried about you, the unpopular calls that kept her brands alive through Covid, having her kids at 39 and 41, and the week in March 2020 when her seven month old was on a feeding tube while her franchisees screamed in her AirPods. We also get into AG1. The founder had no idea she was already a customer, why AG1 was air freighted from New Zealand, the millions in human clinical trials, and what is coming next. Where she came from is the whole point. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Kat: @katcoleatl AG1: @drinkag1 Get my weekly letter, Nowhere to Hide, at thekenrideout.com Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Chapters (00:00) Meet Kat Cole (01:25) Growing Up in Jacksonville (03:21) Mom Said We Are Leaving (04:20) What Took You So Long (05:19) Ten Dollars a Week for Food (06:15) Admiring the Christmas Lights (08:01) Working at 15 (08:56) A Second Job in High School (12:15) We Ran the Place (14:28) Kens Weekly Letter, Nowhere to Hide (16:17) In the Corporate Office at 20 (18:28) We Are Worried About You (21:37) Seeking Control (23:07) Like a Light Switch (24:38) The Seed of a Nutrition Obsession (25:10) Sold to Private Equity (27:16) The Call About Cinnabon (28:58) 400 Stores and 300 Million (29:36) Telling Her Boss She Was Interviewing (30:32) Wait for Great (32:16) Inject Belief (32:44) The Same Three Questions (35:01) A Smaller Cinnamon Roll (35:48) A Billion Dollars in Revenue (36:40) The WTF Email (37:53) You Are a Liar (40:19) Killing a Million Dollar Deal (42:56) COO at 36 (43:28) Undercover Boss (44:48) Im Here to Learn (45:34) Single and Running the Company (46:14) I Knew I Would Be a Mother (49:43) Meeting the Love of Her Life (51:10) Engaged in Two Weeks (51:20) Married to an Ocean Rower (53:58) Recession to Covid (55:38) Not a Zero to One Person (57:23) Covid Wiped Out the Revenue (57:58) The Unpopular Calls That Saved Them (1:00:30) Married at Burning Man (1:01:24) Ocean and Arrow (1:02:58) Arrow Gets Sick (1:04:33) Franchisees in Her AirPods (1:05:38) Im Glad Its Me (1:07:47) Health Became the North Star (1:08:57) The Call From the AG1 Founder (1:09:45) Half Expired Powders in the Pantry (1:10:28) Bootstrapped to 160 Million (1:11:04) Air Freighted From New Zealand (1:13:29) Tim Ferriss and the Imitators (1:14:51) I Put It in the Book (1:16:35) Eight Million Lookalikes (1:17:59) Millions in Human Clinical Trials (1:19:16) Kens Insurance Policy (1:19:53) Four Teenagers on AG1 (1:23:05) Longevity Without the Obsession (1:24:34) AG1 Pro With Creatine (1:26:52) Consistency Matters (1:30:00) Habit Snacking (1:30:46) What Is Coming Next (1:32:03) AGZ and the Gummies (1:35:45) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eddie Gallagher was the number one platoon chief at SEAL Team 7, on his ninth deployment, pushing through the west side of Mosul against ISIS. A year after he got home, NCIS arrested him at a brain treatment clinic, raided his house and pulled his kids into the street at gunpoint. The charge was premeditated murder. The accusers were guys from his own platoon. He spent eight and a half months locked up before trial, in a brig where the guards were told to make him snap, with plea offers that started at 60 years. His wife Andrea ran the Free Eddie campaign while raising three kids. His brother Sean knocked on doors in DC until two congressmen listened. Then Trump tweeted. Then the prosecution got caught spying on his lawyers. Then a medic from his platoon, testifying with full immunity, said he was the one who killed the ISIS fighter. This week I sat down with Eddie, a Navy corpsman who became a Marine scout sniper and then a SEAL chief. We get into the 3 a.m. Navy commercial that got a high school burnout off the couch, a sniper school harder than BUD/S, Hell Week on three and a half hours of sleep, hazing in the teams, and the rules that kept SEALs 800 meters behind the fight in Mosul. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. The torture room next to where his platoon slept. The 17-year-old ISIS fighter dropped on the hood of a truck. The group photo he calls wrong and says he paid for. The Red Bull, the $15 haircut and the sunglasses his accusers called theft. He retired as a chief in 2019 with everything he earned, started the Pipe Hitter Foundation with Andrea, and trains cops and civilians in Florida now. Whatever you think you know about this case, hear it from him. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Eddie: @eddie_gallagher His book: eddiegallagherbook.com Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Eddie Gallagher (02:37) Half the Country Hates You (04:47) Born in Paterson Raised Everywhere (07:33) A Rebellious Kid on Drugs (08:23) A Navy Commercial at 3 AM (11:35) A Corpsman at Sniper School (12:06) Sponsor Break OMRE (15:19) Tougher Than BUDS (16:51) One MRE for Five Days (18:41) Stalking Is a Bitch (21:19) Living on a Ship Sucks (26:23) Watching SEALs Come Over the Beach (31:14) Fast Eddie (34:30) Hell Week on 3.5 Hours of Sleep (38:14) Ken Quit the Ironman in Hawaii (42:25) You Aint Shit (43:15) Reconnecting With Andrea (44:35) Hazing in the Teams (47:32) Throw the First Punch (50:24) A Chair to the Back of the Head (53:13) The OIC Lost His Legs (1:00:41) Im Going to Die for Him (1:05:11) Dropped From Green Team (1:15:24) Taking Over Alpha Platoon (1:17:07) Fast and Loose With the Rules (1:21:45) Mosul (1:24:03) 800 Meters From the Front (1:26:33) An Iranian Backed Partner Force (1:29:01) The Carl Gustav (1:33:50) 600 Yards From ISIS (1:36:03) VBIED Palooza (1:37:53) The Worst of Humanity (1:41:14) On the Hood Like a Deer (1:42:31) The Torture Room Next Door (1:45:59) Bored Team Guys and a Body (1:46:37) I Paid My Dues for That (1:51:48) I Got Him With My Knife (1:53:54) You Called Me a Thief (1:59:06) Ill Fight Every One of You (2:01:11) NCIS Is the Biggest Joke on the Planet (2:02:55) Arrested in the XOs Office (2:04:55) Your Kids Are Outside in Their Underwear (2:12:43) Arrested at the Brain Treatment Center (2:18:50) A Kangaroo Court (2:21:02) Andrea Takes the Reins (2:22:26) Brother Sean Bangs on Doors in DC (2:26:29) Make Him Snap (2:29:34) God Put You in a Prison Cell (2:34:05) Prisoner Gallagher Get Up (2:42:34) Plead and Get 60 Years (2:42:50) Caught Spying (2:46:17) Bernie Kerik and Tim Parlatore (2:48:39) Home to Florida (2:54:12) Lets Get Our Story Straight (2:55:47) A SEAL Planted on the Jury (3:01:31) Trump Offered a Pardon (3:03:23) Full Immunity (3:06:10) I Forgive You (3:09:18) I Killed Him (3:12:16) The Old Man and the Little Girl (3:15:33) Eight Miles in a Weight Vest at 4 AM (3:16:55) Not Guilty (3:20:02) A Call From Trump (3:22:51) The President of the United States (3:25:27) Retired as a Chief (3:28:02) A Dividing Line in the Community (3:30:53) QR Codes to the Evidence (3:34:11) The Pipe Hitter Foundation (3:34:35) Training Cops and Civilians (3:37:42) Shoot Me Straight (3:40:52) A Quad Ripped Off the Knee (3:43:13) Choose Your Discomfort (3:43:32) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cesalina Gracie had never climbed a mountain. She gave herself six and a half weeks to train, flew to Kathmandu and summited Everest on her first attempt, in the deadliest season in the mountain’s history. Three Sherpas were killed in the Khumbu Icefall while the route was still being set up. But the climb wasn’t the hardest part. Waiting at base camp for the summit window, the man running her expedition sat down next to her in her tent, put his hand on her thigh and whispered something she still refuses to repeat. She pushed his hand off and told him never to talk to her like that again. When the window opened he took the other groups up the mountain and left her at base camp. Then he canceled her Sherpa, ordered her down by radio from a hotel in Kathmandu, and assigned her a 20-year-old who had never climbed Everest. She prayed in her tent for a sign. A Sherpa with a speed record on the mountain walked in, heard her out and said, I’ll go with you. They were told not to call for rescue. They summited anyway. This week I sat down with Cesalina, a black belt from the family that created Brazilian jiu-jitsu and my daughter’s first coach. We get into a grandfather with 21 children, the Gracie Diet, a family where school is optional, moving to London alone at 17 with 1,000 pounds, four years off the mats and starting over at white belt, and why she built a jiu-jitsu program for women only. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Her first TV hosting job was the Rio Olympics, live in front of 70,000 people. Ten-hour training days in an altitude chamber, building Legos with frozen hands. The $250,000 VIP tents at base camp. The climber who turned around two hours from the summit and told her it wasn’t worth it. Her message to every girl and woman is simple. Never sacrifice your integrity to achieve your dreams. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Cesalina: @cesagracie Her courses: cesalina.com Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Cesalina Gracie (00:56) Speak Up the Moment It Feels Off (06:13) Ken's Daughter's First Coach (07:01) The Posture of a Champion (09:07) Alone in London at 17 (10:34) Confidence Comes From Within (12:17) Sponsor Break OMRE (14:46) 21 Children and the Gracie Diet (16:27) An Italian Dad With Four Degrees (18:44) A Black Belt Is a Degree (19:37) First Time on an Airplane (20:15) A Red Belt Dad and a Ballerina Mom (21:17) Women Stopped at Blue Belt (21:37) Kyra Gracie Fought to Fight (24:18) Why the Little Girls Are Dangerous (26:16) A Movement for Women Not Against Men (28:30) Job Interview on Monday (29:05) Waitress at the First Hard Rock Cafe (31:26) The Queen of Firsts (33:47) Four Years Off the Mats (34:52) A Broken Tailbone at a Tournament (36:45) Hiding the Gracie Name in London (38:45) Dads Screaming in the Stands (43:08) Watching Your Kid Lose (47:12) Don't Let Them Quit (48:31) The Science of Self-Sabotage (52:29) Two Brothers and a Rapper Sister (53:03) Twelve Schools With Her Brother (54:18) Tolerated Not Celebrated (55:27) Translating Kill the Lion (56:11) You Belong in Front of the Camera (56:53) Booking the Rio Olympics (1:00:27) Why Not You (1:01:47) Skydiving With the Expedition Leader (1:05:25) Scared of Heights (1:07:10) Six and a Half Weeks to Prepare (1:09:34) The Invisible Contract (1:10:28) The Deadliest Season in Everest History (1:12:09) What Everest Costs (1:13:41) Training for Everest Since Day One (1:14:16) Ten Hours in the Altitude Chamber (1:15:55) Legos With Frozen Hands (1:20:47) The Descent Is What Kills (1:24:00) The $250,000 VIP Tent (1:26:37) Fifty Days Without a Heater (1:31:29) Not Married No Kids Now or Never (1:35:06) Ladders in the Khumbu Icefall (1:37:47) Turned Around 300 Meters From the Top (1:40:59) A Two and a Half Hour Head Start (1:41:26) A 70 Mile an Hour Windstorm (1:43:05) Too Cold Too Dangerous Not Worth It (1:45:15) Her Sherpa Gets Canceled (1:48:47) Two Bodyguards at Base Camp (1:49:43) The Boundary That Started a War (1:51:20) A Hand on Her Thigh (1:53:08) Don't Ever Talk to Me Like This (1:54:05) Ordered Down From the Marriott (1:55:11) A 20 Year Old Who Never Climbed Everest (1:56:02) A Prayer and a Sign (1:58:03) I'll Go With You (1:59:48) Don't Call Us for Rescue (2:00:54) 23 Hours of Climbing (2:03:53) The Sherpa Who Saved Her Life (2:06:34) Fifty Days Without a Shower (2:08:22) Ken Left Ironman in an Ambulance (2:11:04) The Sting of Quitting (2:12:04) It's a Decision (2:17:11) Never Sacrifice Your Integrity (2:18:56) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lyle Phillips was shooting heroin in one arm and meth in the other at 18. He sold cocaine in his Kentucky high school, slept in a dog room at a crack house and lived in the backseat of a 1987 Caprice. He got shot at and he shot back. He ran himself off the road at 65 miles an hour and walked out of the wreck holding a bottle of Tanqueray. At 19 his best friend was shot dead in the street over a crack deal. At 21 his childhood friend got arrested on the way back to Lyle’s apartment with two kilos of cocaine and 250 pounds of weed, right after they counted $125,000 in cash on the kitchen table. That night, alone and not even high, Lyle watched someone walk past his second-floor window. He thought it was the SWAT team. Nobody was there. He says Jesus stepped into that room and told him he had six months before he was dead or in prison. The next day he called the parents he hadn’t spoken to in four years and moved home. This week I sat down with Pastor Lyle Phillips of Legacy Church in Nashville. Nick Bare connected us when I told him I was starting to explore faith, and Lyle showed up at my house with books and no sales pitch. We get into the Holiness Pentecostal church he grew up in, 17 days of withdrawal in solitary, rehab inside a mental hospital, and the counselor who told him to go meet his 11-year-old self. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Plagiarizing his first sermons at his dad’s church. Washing a pastor’s car for $100 a week in Texas. A year and a half in Mozambique. Five years in India, where his team paid off family debts to free more than 400 kids from slavery, and where he lost some of them anyway. He started Legacy Church in September 2016 with a free building and 12 people. Now about 1,200 show up every Sunday. We talk about what a church actually costs to run, who can fire a pastor, Joel Osteen and the prosperity gospel, and why I keep showing up to church feeling like a fraud. His message to me was simple. You don’t have to white-knuckle it. Just keep coming back. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Lyle: @lylebphillips Legacy Church: legacynashville.org Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Pastor Lyle Phillips (01:29) Population 400 in West Kentucky (03:59) Forced to Church Every Sunday (04:54) Holiness Pentecostal Standards (07:42) Altar Calls and Fake Tears (09:01) Abuse Inside the Church (12:45) Sponsor Break OMRE (15:15) A Prophet Walks the Aisles (17:07) Seeing Demons as a Child (18:19) Ken’s Ibogaine Trip in Mexico (23:03) First DUI at 16 (24:04) His Dad and Three Yardsticks (24:57) Bee Fights for Entertainment (27:15) Arrested for Attempted Murder (28:10) A Desert Eagle and a Crack House (29:18) Selling Cocaine in High School (30:28) EYBL Ball With Rajon Rondo (32:33) Carpet Fibers and Speedballs (33:25) A 70-Year-Old Shows Him the Needle (34:54) Running From the Cops on Ten Valiums (35:55) Jail or Rehab (37:20) 17 Days in Solitary (38:27) Rehab in a Mental Hospital (40:11) Meet the 11-Year-Old You (41:20) Only an Addict Gets This (44:02) Two Weeks of Pre-Med (46:51) Waiter Selling Coke to His Tables (48:24) Drive-Bys and Hot Buckshot (49:04) Best Friend Killed in the Street (50:19) Running Himself Off the Road (54:18) $125,000 on the Kitchen Table (57:45) Somebody Walked Past the Window (59:13) Six Months Until Dead or Prison (1:00:33) Calling Home After Four Years (1:02:26) Nine Months of Sermons With Dad (1:05:05) I’m Supposed to Preach (1:07:38) Plagiarizing His First Sermons (1:09:31) Preaching Where He Sold Crack (1:10:13) Ken Feels Like a Fraud at Church (1:13:36) $100 Every Friday in Texas (1:16:28) Moving to Mozambique (1:19:29) A Nonprofit for 13 Kids (1:21:30) Rescuing Kids in India (1:23:17) They Said They’d Have Him Killed (1:25:16) Buying a Child’s Freedom (1:27:30) The Kids He Lost (1:31:06) Nashville Because of the Airport (1:34:12) Meeting Allyson on Skype (1:36:24) Twelve People and a Free Building (1:38:34) What Launch Sunday Costs (1:41:08) Private Jets and Cults (1:43:59) Five Services Every Sunday (1:48:49) Joel Osteen and the Prosperity Gospel (1:51:03) Who Can Fire a Pastor (1:56:09) Nick Bare and Dr. Josh Axe (1:58:09) The Missing Spiritual Part (1:59:30) Better Than Any High (2:00:30) How to Become a Christian (2:02:08) Lukewarm and Jealous (2:03:50) Not Saved by Good Works (2:04:35) Follow Me and I Will Make You (2:07:40) The Gospel of John on His Nightstand (2:11:37) Wes Huff and the Prophecies (2:16:03) 1,200 People Every Sunday (2:19:43) What a Pastor Does All Week (2:21:53) To the Haters (2:23:38) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eryk Anders was the last guy picked. He mailed 125 copies of his own VHS highlight tape to every school he could find an address for and heard nothing back. Then a running back didn’t qualify two weeks before the season, Mike Shula called, and Eryk showed up in Tuscaloosa in Timberland boots claiming he weighed 215. The scale was broken. Thirty minutes later he had a full ride to Alabama. He barely played for two years. After a bowl game where he never saw the field he told his dad he was transferring. His dad told him to stay and get the degree. He died that night. Eryk stayed. Senior year he started for Nick Saban, and in the national championship game against Texas, the team he grew up wanting to play for, he led the defense with seven tackles and the blindside sack and forced fumble that sealed it with three minutes left. Then football was over. Cut by the Browns. Cut in Canada. Arena ball. Cleaning factories with a water lance, a janitor at LabCorp, a customer service line where strangers cussed him out all day. He started MMA at 24 with no combat background, and his wife wrote a $3,500 check to pay off his car so he could quit his job. Two years to the day later he signed with the UFC. This week I sat down with Eryk to get the whole story. The UFC calling when he weighed 238 with ten days to make 185, then knocking out Rafael Natal in the first round. Twenty UFC fights, the Machida decision, the soccer kick in Lincoln, getting judo-tossed by Hector Lombard, 15 pounds cut in 90 minutes and a house bought after every fight. He won his last fight in March at 38, retired in the cage and now runs Ya Boi Fitness Academy in Vestavia Hills, Alabama. He calls himself a C-plus athlete. He just outworked everybody. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Eryk: @erykanders Ya Boi Fitness Academy, Vestavia Hills, Alabama Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Eryk Anders (00:16) Born on an Air Force Base (00:45) Football Was a Religion in Texas (02:02) The Kid Who Wouldn’t Shower (04:12) A Nurse Who Retired a Colonel (06:01) A C-Plus Athlete Who Outworks Everyone (08:02) Friday Night Lights in Bulverde (09:10) 125 VHS Highlight Tapes (09:47) A Scholarship Out of Thin Air (10:33) Mike Shula Calls Hawaii (10:58) Timberlands and a Broken Scale (12:27) Sponsor Break OMRE (16:15) NIL Money and Back Pay (17:56) Don’t Give Them a Reason (18:58) The Dexter McCluster Story (22:16) Everything Turned to a Blur (23:06) Shula’s Oklahoma Drills (23:51) How Saban Changed Practice (27:48) Eating at 2 AM to Keep Weight (29:52) Mess Up at 100 Miles an Hour (32:20) Third-Down Pass Rusher (33:27) Benched in the Bowl Game (34:01) His Dad’s Last Advice (34:45) Texas in the Rose Bowl (36:18) The Sack That Sealed It (37:06) God Status in Tuscaloosa (38:36) Cut by the Browns (41:34) Canada and Arena Football (44:51) Booster Lunches and No Job (46:25) Cleaning Factories With a Water Lance (46:44) Janitor at LabCorp (47:03) Apache Helicopters for Sweden (48:20) Customer Service Hell (50:04) She Paid Off His Car (50:59) Two Years to the Day (51:38) The Amateur Grind (53:29) Wrestlers Make Champions (55:02) Cutting to 185 (56:21) His First Real Knockout (59:15) 238 Pounds and Ten Days Notice (1:00:46) 15 Pounds in 90 Minutes (1:03:46) The Fight Ready Fallout (1:06:34) Life on the Road (1:08:34) Philly Fight Culture (1:09:53) Ken Quit Cold Turkey (1:14:03) Judo-Tossed by Hector Lombard (1:16:44) The Divorce (1:19:29) His Son and His Stepson in Spain (1:20:59) 20 UFC Fights (1:21:43) $12,000 for His UFC Debut (1:22:20) The Soccer Kick Bonus (1:23:14) $260,000 for His Last Fight (1:23:45) Retiring on His Own Terms (1:24:25) What a Kids Gym Needs (1:26:42) Don’t Break Your Toys (1:27:12) Kids Who Can’t Do a Cartwheel (1:31:49) Take the Attributes Out (1:33:26) A House After Every Fight (1:34:27) Ya Boi Fitness Academy (1:35:22) Why Women Need Jiu-Jitsu (1:37:40) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jessie James Decker was born on a military base in Italy and lived in 14 places before she finished high school. At a sleepover in Newnan, Georgia, two senior girls she had never met pulled up with a bucket of slop they had been saving for weeks and dumped it over her head. Somebody made a page online called I Hate Jessica James. At nine she got on a stage in Baker, Louisiana in a denim vest and red high tops, yodeled a Patsy Montana song and beat every adult in the room. Right out of high school her mom and stepdad loaded a U-Haul and dropped her in Nashville to live with a song plugger. She had a record deal two months later. A gold single, a top 25 debut, opening for the Jonas Brothers. Then she tried to make a country record and nobody in Nashville would sign her. The deal fell apart. The boyfriend turned out to be a loser, her best friend moved out and her family was in Hawaii. No deal, no plan, swearing off men. Then a friend sent her a BlackBerry photo of a Broncos rookie in a white t-shirt with his arms folded. This week I sat down with my friend Jessie to get the whole story. The text from Eric Decker that read like a novel. The phone call on a curb outside a Mellow Mushroom. Four kids and four comebacks, five foot one with nine-pound babies, and the 40,000 women now training with her in the JJD Fit Club. The Kittenish store in Nashville she has run since 2019, just picked up by Macy's, Nordstrom and Dillard's. And The Secret Sauce, her fourth book, written with her mom and her sister, out this week. She never took the SATs, didn't have a drink on her 21st birthday, and cooks dinner every single night. I still don't know how she does all of it. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Jessie: @jessiejamesdecker Her new book: The Secret Sauce, out now. Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Jessie James Decker (01:27) Ken's Daughter Loves Kittenish (02:22) Built Differently (04:03) Gratitude Is Her Superpower (05:33) Ken's Brother and the Way Out (06:20) Military Kid and 14 Moves (06:54) Always the New Kid (08:52) Bullied Like a Scene From Carrie (09:22) A Bucket of Slop at a Sleepover (09:52) The I Hate Jessica James Page (10:12) A Girls Girl Who Never Had It (11:43) Sponsor Break OMRE (14:04) No College and No SATs (14:49) Nine Years Old in Baker Louisiana (15:35) This Is My Job Now (16:02) A U-Haul to Nashville (16:23) Living With a Song Plugger (17:17) Ken Meets BeBe Winans (18:16) Vivi on the High Bar (18:56) Shawn Johnson as Mentor (20:08) Not Even a Drink at 21 (21:50) Signed at 19 and a Gold Record (22:42) A Little Doll Pulled Everywhere (23:15) Opening for the Jonas Brothers (24:06) The Label Wanted Platinum Blonde (24:36) Ken Couldn't Enjoy Sarasota (27:26) A Blessing and a Curse (28:17) Four Kids and the Weight Every Time (30:53) Short People Build Muscle Fast (31:47) She Cooks Every Single Day (32:09) Kids With Abs at Three (33:06) Rock Bottom in Nashville (33:46) Nashville Would Not Sign Her (35:07) No Deal and Swearing Off Men (36:29) The Hockey Player Setup (37:39) A BlackBerry Photo of Eric Decker (38:24) A Text Like a Novel (38:53) The Call on the Curb (39:52) Jambalaya and Stapleton at Exit In (40:25) Too Good to Be True (41:23) Ken Meets Eric at Onsite (41:49) Eric After the NFL (42:53) Like a Back Surgery You Need (44:27) The Brokeback Mountain Walk (45:08) Ken's Retreat in Mexico (46:12) Chainsaw in the Ice Storm (46:48) What Is the JJD Fit Club (48:04) Two Steps and 40,000 Women (48:39) Consistency Is a Superpower (49:13) No One Regrets a Hard Workout (50:20) The Genetics at 20 Are Gone (50:57) Kittenish at Macy's and Nordstrom (51:36) Finding a Partner for Kittenish (52:45) Know What You're Not Good At (53:47) The Secret Sauce (54:23) Food Is My Love Language (55:22) Meat Locker Cold (56:09) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

BeBe Winans grew up a block from Smokey Robinson in Detroit, shoveling his snow for $25 when everyone else paid $2. Stevie Wonder's house was behind theirs. He was the seventh of ten Winans kids, and when his four older brothers got signed by Quincy Jones, BeBe drove the van. Right out of high school he and his sister CeCe auditioned for a Christian TV network in Charlotte. She got the job. He didn't. Their dad wouldn't let her go alone, so BeBe went as her chaperone, planning to work at a grocery store. Then Jim Bakker walked into a rehearsal and told the two of them to sing "Up Where We Belong" as a duet. That is how BeBe & CeCe Winans started. Capitol Records followed, then gold, then platinum, then six Grammys. Whitney Houston sang backup on their first tour and made their outfits herself while Clive Davis lost his mind. What almost nobody saw was the hotel mirror in California at 33. BeBe was 255 pounds and couldn't get through two minutes on a treadmill. His trainer told him it took 33 years to get there, so give yourself more than three days. He got to 180 and never went back. He is 64 now, and I see him running past my house in Brentwood in the rain and on the ice, every day but Sunday. That is how we met. This week I sat down with my neighbor to get the whole story. The fourth-grade poem that made him a writer. Michael Jordan at a Detroit baggage claim telling him to put his head down and listen. Stevie Wonder calling him an incredible writer from the side of the stage. Dolly Parton at the register of the country store down the road. And the tour with CeCe next April, their first in 25 years. One of the kindest people I know, and one hell of a storyteller. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow BeBe: @bebewinans Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet BeBe Winans (00:40) The Guy Who Runs Every Day (01:18) Jelly Roll Knows Him (02:21) Growing Up in Motown (02:41) Shoveling Smokey Robinson's Snow (03:58) Ten Kids and a Piano (05:16) The Winans and Quincy Jones (06:24) A Poem Called The Wind (07:28) A Catalog of 3000 Songs (08:36) Never Sing Your Own Demo (09:16) Sponsor Break ROKA (11:01) Meeting Whitney Houston (12:10) The Bodyguard Soundtrack (12:30) What the Music Means to People (13:10) Gladys Knight at the Ryman (15:17) Trading Names in a Blizzard (15:47) No Excuses in the Rain (16:10) Nothing Flexes Like Being in Shape (17:13) Rejected at the Charlotte Audition (18:15) Chaperoning CeCe at PTL (18:41) Jim Bakker Makes Them a Duet (19:54) Signing With Capitol Records (20:52) Gold Then Platinum (21:43) Keeping the Solo Rights (23:10) The Mirror in California (24:19) Two Minutes on a Treadmill (24:54) From 255 to 180 (25:45) A Banana in Every State (26:21) Not Donny and Marie (26:44) When One Winans Wins (27:39) Mom's 90th Birthday (28:52) Dad Hollering From the Front Row (29:12) Telling Mom She Can Retire (29:51) Ken Embarrasses His Daughter (31:33) Dad's Last Words (33:06) Sing for 12 Like It's 120,000 (35:37) Greek Theater and Carnegie Hall (36:04) Guards on a Train in Russia (38:44) First Tour With CeCe in 25 Years (39:21) Driving the Van for His Brothers (40:40) Whitney Houston Sang Backup (41:39) Whitney Runs the Tour Bus (44:46) The Lady Who Didn't Know Whitney (45:45) Stevie Wonder Sings Happy Birthday (47:05) Prince in the Next Seat (48:48) Michael Jordan at Baggage Claim (50:48) Dolly Parton at the Country Store (54:43) Ken's Mountain Lion (55:38) Cougars in Vancouver (57:16) Running With Rhinos in Kenya (57:35) Two Kids Who Don't Sing (58:55) Niece Deborah Joy on Greenleaf (59:20) Fifteen Cities in 2027 (01:00:28) Building the Show (01:02:25) Don't Get Addicted to the Applause (01:02:38) A Musical Bound for Broadway (01:03:17) The Business of a Tour (01:05:43) Pull Up Your Brave Pants (01:06:03) Private Shows and Oprah (01:07:24) Eight and a Half Miles Every Day (01:08:15) Lifting Right After the Run (01:09:43) See You in New York (01:10:06) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anthony Bass was a Division II kid from Trenton, Michigan who threw 88 to 92 like every other college pitcher. Then in the summer of 2007 he watched a rookie his own size named Tim Lincecum throw 98 for the Giants, copied his delivery in the bullpen the next day, and never threw a fastball under 94 in his next outing. Twelve scout envelopes followed. So did a fifth-round pick by the Padres, a $166,000 signing bonus, and 12 seasons in the big leagues with seven teams. What almost nobody saw was how it ended. On an off day in Toronto in May 2023, Anthony reposted a video calling on Christians to boycott Target and Bud Light. His agent called while he was out fishing. He took it down. His wife Sydney told him not to hide who he is, so he put it back up. The next time he ran out of the bullpen at home, his own fans booed him through the entire inning. Eleven days after the post the Blue Jays designated him for assignment, the GM called it a baseball decision, and no other team would touch him. He was 35. This week I sat down with my friend Anthony to get the whole ride. 100 swings off a tee in a freezing garage. The fake call-up, then the real one: a start in Colorado and a win in his debut before they sent him back to Double-A that same night. $900 a month in the minors to $40,000 a month in the show. A perfect game into the sixth in San Francisco. A season in Japan where a 21-year-old teammate named Shohei Ohtani threw 100 on opening day and Anthony landed a remote-control helicopter on his head in the clubhouse. And the 2022 playoff inning where he never recorded an out. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. The scripted apology. The resentment when he came home. What he would do differently. And why coaching kids is the next chapter. This guy can tell a story. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Anthony: @anthonyebass Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout OMRE: omre.co Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Sponsor Break OMRE (00:46) Meet Anthony Bass (03:57) Growing Up in Trenton Michigan (04:30) 100 Swings in a Frozen Garage (05:22) A Railroad Dad Who Played Catch (06:58) Copying Tim Lincecum (10:00) Suddenly Throwing 94 (10:38) Twelve Envelopes at Scout Day (12:38) Sponsor Break ROKA (14:17) Drafted by the Padres (14:56) Eugene Fort Wayne Lake Elsinore (16:52) Who Gets Weeded Out (19:45) Ken Raids the Bruins Equipment Room (22:21) The Fake Call Up (23:23) Starting in Colorado Tomorrow (24:20) Calling Mom and the College Catcher (25:40) Eight Hour Bus Rides (26:43) Swinging Late at 98 (28:40) A Room of His Own at the Ritz (30:05) Meeting Bud Black (30:40) Bass on the Back of the Jersey (33:13) First Batter Carlos Gonzalez (35:30) Winning His Debut in the Rain (36:00) Sent Back Down That Night (36:27) Heath Bell's Three Week Prediction (37:07) Sponsor Break AMP (38:16) Living Out of a Suitcase (39:40) From 900 a Month to the League Minimum (41:15) The 200,000 Pay Stub (44:00) Inconsistent in the Rotation (44:52) A Perfect Game Into the Sixth (46:40) The Triple A Grind (48:05) Traded to Houston (48:34) Hurt and Becoming a Journeyman (50:40) The Fear of Never Coming Back (51:46) Three Hours in a Japanese Grocery Store (52:23) A Teammate Named Shohei Ohtani (52:51) 100 MPH on Opening Day (55:00) Ohtani Hiding in Airports (56:00) Winning the Japan Series (57:41) Landing a Helicopter on Ohtani (59:08) Dodgers Money and the Salary Cap (01:01:36) Turning Down 1.5 Million to Come Home (01:03:25) The Cubs and Hand Foot and Mouth (01:04:40) Closing Games in Louisville (01:05:21) The Mariners Come Calling (01:07:20) Claimed by Toronto (01:07:50) Closing in the COVID Season (01:08:27) A Career Year in Miami (01:09:23) The Playoff Inning Without an Out (01:10:22) Sponsor Break OMRE (01:12:40) The Post (01:14:20) Sydney Says Don't Take It Down (01:15:29) Called Into the GM's Office (01:16:20) A 37 Second Scripted Apology (01:17:45) Booed for an Entire Inning (01:19:04) Released as a Baseball Decision (01:20:27) The Dodgers and Diamondbacks Pass (01:21:40) The Next Chapter Is Coaching (01:22:00) Ken's Recurring Bruins Dream (01:23:12) Fenway and a First Pitch Dream (01:27:54) Middle Tennessee Talent (01:30:33) Training for HYROX Nashville (01:30:50) Ken's Wall Ball Disaster (01:34:40) Confront What Scares You (01:36:09) Four Kids Under Ten (01:38:13) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marc Hodulich was a high school sophomore when he ran five months on a broken foot. The scan turned into a bone graft from his shin, two pins across his foot and three orthopedic surgeons before one of them would say he might run again. The pins are still in there 30 years later. He went on to run track at Auburn in the SEC, and then he built the hardest event most people will ever finish. Marc is the co-founder and CEO of 29029. Hike up a mountain, ride the gondola down, repeat until you have climbed 29,029 feet, the height of Everest, inside 36 hours. It is not a race. No clock, no trophy, no paid sponsors. It is walking. And since the first event in 2017, only 68 percent of the people who start have finished. A marathon is 98. This week I sat down with Marc, one of my closest friends, to get the whole story. Birmingham. Selling payroll door to door in Manhattan while working two other jobs. Six years in management consulting until a partner told him he did not want to go deep on anything. The Wall Street Decathlon he started on the side that raised millions for pediatric cancer research at Memorial Sloan Kettering. Meeting Jesse Itzler at their kids' flag football practice. Why 29029 has never taken a paid sponsor. The 80-year-old who called the event "frustratingly doable." And the summer he, Jesse and Colin O'Brady did 29,029 feet three ways, on the bike, in the water and on the mountain. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. The day I quit at Kona. What I went through in Mexico. Why Marc deleted email off his phone. And what he means by fulfillment over achievement. Follow Marc: @marchodulich Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" OMRE: omre.co Code "KEN" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Marc Hodulich (00:48) Growing Up in Birmingham (02:08) The High School Miler (03:02) Running Track at Auburn (06:22) The Book Scholarship (06:53) Five Months on a Broken Foot (09:27) Raising Chase and Dylan (11:38) Sponsor Break ROKA (13:18) Preparing for an Empty House (15:19) Selling Payroll Door to Door (16:46) Six Years in Consulting (17:50) A Partner Calls His Bluff (18:26) The Wall Street Decathlon (19:44) Scared to Quit (21:11) Who's the Better Athlete (23:28) Bought Out by His Partner (24:26) Why 29029 Has No Paid Sponsors (25:46) The Origins of 29029 (26:14) Running to Flag Football Practice (27:19) Owning Everest in 36 Hours (28:42) An On Ramp to Trail Running (30:54) Earned Luxury at the Ritz (31:59) Sponsor Break OMRE (33:37) Early Mistakes at the First Event (34:29) Hard Things Change People (36:00) A 68 Percent Finish Rate (36:45) Quit Feeling Sorry for Yourself (38:19) The Average Participant Is 50 (39:36) The Day Ken Quit at Kona (40:42) Training for Bad Conditions (42:48) Fulfillment Before the Finish Line (44:07) Teepees at Snowbasin (45:14) It's All Free (46:05) Ken and Rob Show Up Cocky (46:58) Frustratingly Doable at 80 (47:56) No Awards for Finishing First (49:01) Lapping the Field at Whistler (50:22) Negotiating With Yourself (52:48) Honest Conversations on the Mountain (53:27) The Idea Behind TRAIL (55:01) Leadville and Telluride (57:14) Ken vs Tyler at TRAIL (59:12) The Triple, 29029 Three Ways (01:00:43) A 5.5 Mile Swim (01:01:32) Buying a Bike for the Climb (01:04:10) The Hardest Part Was Staying Present (01:04:48) A Text From Chase (01:06:18) Cramping on Lap Five (01:07:02) Whitecaps on the Lake (01:09:19) The Safety Kayak Wake Up Call (01:11:38) Ken's Topanga Canyon Crash (01:13:34) Sitting in It for a While (01:14:44) Joy in Other People Winning (01:15:43) Ray Hicks and the Big Cup (01:16:47) Knowing What You Don't Want (01:17:24) When Racing Becomes Performative (01:18:40) Five Days Off in Mexico (01:19:05) Uncomfortable Plant Therapy (01:24:05) 5 MeO DMT and Ego Death (01:26:18) Grateful for What Matters (01:28:01) Deleting Email Off His Phone (01:31:09) The Runner's High Afterwards (01:31:46) 29029 Goes to Verbier (01:33:26) Fulfillment Not Achievement (01:34:06) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mike Sarraille was three feet away when Michael Monsoor jumped on a grenade on a rooftop in Ramadi and smothered the blast. Mike and another SEAL took the shrapnel Monsoor’s body couldn’t block. Monsoor didn’t survive. He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. That day is the middle of the story, not the end of it. Mike dropped out of the University of Colorado to enlist as a Recon Marine. Boot camp, scout sniper school, a Force Recon guarantee, an officer package to Texas A&M. 9/11 hit three weeks after he finished OCS. He laterally transferred to the Navy, made it through BUD/S, and landed on SEAL Team 3 in time for the 2006 Battle of Ramadi. After Monsoor was killed, Mike switched his own name tag onto a departing platoon roster to force his way back into the fight, then survived the Battle of Sadr City against Iranian-backed militia. He was later selected for DEVGRU, did an exchange tour as a troop commander at Delta, and was on the ground in Afghanistan the night Adam Brown, of the book Fearless, was killed. This week I sat down with Mike to talk about all of it: Ramadi, DEVGRU, the NCIS investigation that followed his own attempt to get his teammates recognized for valor, and what he’s building now as Chief Talent Officer of Overwatch Mission Critical, one of the largest labor providers to the data center industry. He’s also ranked the #3 leadership speaker in the world, behind only Simon Sinek, and his new book, Teams, comes out in January. Follow Mike on Instagram: @mr.sarraille. Please subscribe, leave a comment, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Mike Sarraille (02:04) Admiring Dr. Jonny Kim (03:06) Raising Kids Who Compete (05:35) Speaking to the Boston Bruins (07:01) Growing Up in the Bay Area (09:00) Dropping Out of Colorado (09:29) Meeting a Force Recon Marine (11:29) Force Recon, Delta and the Tier One Units (14:42) Marine Corps Boot Camp (16:59) Sponsor Break ROKA (17:15) The Melting Pot of Boot Camp (19:12) The Recon Guarantee and Entrance Test (24:19) Scout Sniper School and the Stalking Phase (26:26) Texas A&M and the Officer Package (28:16) 9/11 Changes the Plan (29:34) Telling the Marine Corps He’s Leaving (30:22) The Lateral Transfer to the Navy (31:11) Mini BUDs and 100 Officers Competing (33:02) Hell Week and a Friend’s Son at BUD/S Now (36:29) Officers and Enlisted on the Same Crew (37:38) Diving School and Almost Drowning (40:07) Checking In and First Deployment to Ramadi (43:38) The 2006 Battle of Ramadi and the Band of Brothers (45:54) Sniper Overwatch for the Army (48:17) The Last Mission Before Rotating Home (49:39) 115 Degrees on the Rooftop (53:31) Playing Through Injury (58:15) The Grenade Hits the Roof (59:39) Michael Monsoor Jumps on the Grenade (01:04:13) Crawling for the Radio Under Fire (01:06:41) Loaded Into the Bradley (01:08:15) Saying Goodbye to Mikey (01:09:45) Meeting Mikey’s Mother (01:11:13) The Extent of His Injuries (01:15:52) Switching Name Tags to Redeploy (01:16:45) The Battle of Sadr City (01:18:58) Applying for DEVGRU Selection (01:20:58) The Psychology of DEVGRU Screening (01:24:21) The Speed of DEVGRU CQB (01:25:45) The Night Adam Brown Was Killed (01:29:45) Carrying Adam’s Body Down the Mountain (01:31:00) Why the Mission Comes Before Family (01:32:19) Delta Versus DEVGRU (01:33:36) Divorce and a Tour at Texas (01:37:29) Retiring Without a Ceremony (01:38:51) Becoming a Fox News Contributor (01:45:30) Founding Talent War Group (01:47:15) Selling the Company to Overwatch (01:48:44) What Overwatch Mission Critical Does (01:51:22) China and Data Center Misinformation (01:54:15) The Truth About Water and Power (01:59:41) The Cibolo Town Hall Bloodbath (02:02:34) The Case for Small Modular Reactors (02:03:25) How Triple Seven Started (02:08:34) Should We Be in Iran (02:14:45) The Maduro Raid in Venezuela (02:16:14) Reacting to the Delta Force Raid (02:18:27) Drone Warfare and Unit Economics (02:22:56) Blue Collar Millionaires and Forge Now (02:28:57) The Eddie Gallagher Case (02:32:19) Investigated by NCIS (02:39:14) Announcing His New Book Teams (02:47:37) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Clay Moss looked like the healthiest guy at Ole Miss. He trained six days a week and got strep throat every other month for four straight years. Twenty-two documented cases. Every visit ended the same way: a steroid shot, a round of antibiotics, see you next time. Nobody asked how he was sleeping, what he was eating, or how much caffeine he was running on. He got his tonsils out after graduation. Six weeks later he had the worst strep of his life. Then medical school in Jackson, Mississippi, the only MD program in the state. He watched classmates go from all-nighters to Adderall to Xanax to sleep aids to antidepressants, and by fourth year he was sitting in the lecture hall where it all started, listening to fifteen of them compare prescriptions. When a doctor offered him Xanax for the panic attacks he had been having since sophomore year of college, he said no and started with sleep, food, meditation, and blood work instead. This week I sat down with Dr. Clay Moss, a Gulf Breeze kid who used to peek through the fence at the Andrews Institute on the walk home from middle school. We get into the 12.5-hour surgery that ended his surgeon dream four hours in, opening his Match Day letter on stage, why your doctor only gets 5 to 12 minutes with you, and what happened to him after the COVID booster that he didn’t feel he could say out loud in med school. We also get into the stuff you can use tomorrow. Why he picks the barbell over the treadmill, why a broken hip after 65 is so dangerous, hormone therapy for women, sun versus sunscreen, tap water, low-dose lithium, and what four sauna sessions a week does for you. Clay has ten months of residency left and 800,000 people following his work. Then he opens the practice 18-year-old Clay needed. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Clay: @drclaymoss Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Dr. Clay Moss (00:15) Growing Up in Gulf Breeze (01:15) Dad’s Houseboat in Pensacola (02:23) Peeking Through the Andrews Fence (04:19) ROKA Sunglasses for Clay (05:49) The Only MD School in Mississippi (06:27) Trauma Surgery Rotation (08:32) The Teacher Who Said Never (09:13) Ken Meets the Panhandle (11:13) Sponsor Break ROKA (13:27) Sixty Percent Out of State (15:22) Chasing Good Mentors (16:17) No Such Thing as Optional Practice (18:34) Rushing Sigma Chi (19:56) Psychological Hazing (23:00) Nike Sponsors Sorority Rush (24:26) The Face of Functional Medicine (26:43) Five to Twelve Minutes Per Patient (27:32) Paying for Your Own Doctor (28:36) Fighting Insurance Denials (30:52) Twenty Two Cases of Strep (32:17) Nobody Asked About Sleep (33:14) The Practice 18 Year Old Clay Needed (35:23) Pay Me Now or Pay Me Later (36:58) Cash Pay Doctors Are Not Selfish (38:33) Sponsor Break AMP (39:29) Florida State Took 190 of 10000 (40:27) Meditation and Lifting in Jackson (40:47) All Nighters to Adderall (41:38) Fifteen Classmates on Antidepressants (44:42) Jelly Roll on Haters (45:50) Cold Calling the DMs (47:21) The Early Huberman Comparison (49:43) Drinking From a Firehose (51:09) The Twelve and a Half Hour Surgery (52:15) Finding Physical Medicine and Rehab (53:47) Match Day on Stage (55:58) Ten Months Left (56:58) A Fifty Patient Practice (58:55) Five Grand a Month for Insurance (01:00:46) Questioning Everything After Covid (01:02:22) The ER Visits He Could Not Talk About (01:03:26) First Panic Attack in Tallahassee (01:04:40) Turning Down the Xanax (01:05:43) Propranolol as a Safety Net (01:07:30) Cardio Versus Strength (01:08:56) Muscle as a Glucose Sponge (01:10:22) Ken’s VO2 Max at 55 (01:12:05) Breaking a Hip After 65 (01:13:45) Women Need the Barbell Most (01:15:24) Why HRT Got Demonized (01:17:53) Absolute Versus Relative Risk (01:20:31) Regrowing an Optic Nerve (01:22:49) Know Why You Take It (01:25:31) Sun Versus Sunscreen (01:28:48) Low Dose Lithium (01:31:08) Never Drink Tap Water (01:33:19) Sauna Four Times a Week (01:37:55) Not Running for Anyone Else (01:39:55) The REP Fitness Garage Gym (01:43:37) Ken’s Trip to Mexico (01:45:31) Ken’s DMT Experience (01:49:50) A Grandfather’s Secret (01:53:25) Tune Out the Negativity (01:53:51) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dexter McCluster is five-foot-eight and 165 pounds. Bobby Bowden told him he could play defensive back. Urban Meyer told him he could return kicks. He turned both of them down because he knew who he was, and he needed the ball in his hands. He went to Ole Miss instead and became the first player in SEC history to rush for 1,000 yards and catch for 500 in the same season. He ran for 282 yards on Lane Kiffin's Tennessee with the coach who recruited him standing on the other sideline, won back-to-back Cotton Bowl MVPs, and got drafted 36th overall by the Chiefs. In his first NFL game, on Monday Night Football, in the rain, he returned a punt 94 yards for a touchdown. This week I sat down with Dexter to talk about all of it. Becoming a father at 17 and telling his parents within half an hour. Waiting for the draft call on a couch with a Nokia phone and camera crews watching. Buying his mom the house he promised her as a kid. Making the Pro Bowl and then being told he wasn't really a running back or a receiver. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Getting named a captain in Tennessee and then getting cut before the season, the year Derrick Henry showed up. Crying the whole drive home. Three retirements. The months he spent on his patio from six in the morning to six at night, drinking more than he should have, until his wife told him, "Don't forget who you are." Today Dexter trains athletes, coaches running backs at Father Ryan, and just had his sixth kid, his first boy. We weigh exactly the same. Only one of us has a Chiefs record. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Dexter: @dextermccluster and @mcclusterfit Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Dexter McCluster (00:34) You Can't Fake Running Back (02:09) Rookie Blitz Pickup Test (03:19) Growing Up in Largo (04:35) High Jumping at Five Eight (05:31) Dad's No Summer Job Rule (07:20) Six Kids and a Baby Boy (08:06) Mister 2000 Senior Season (09:18) Too Small for Florida State (09:47) A Father at Seventeen (10:59) Orgeron in the Living Room (12:24) Slot Receiver Not Running Back (12:45) Sponsor Break ROKA (14:29) Winning the Starting Job (15:40) Combine Weigh In Nightmare (18:14) Losing His Daughter's Mother (19:46) Culture Shock at Ole Miss (22:34) Patrick Willis and Baby Hester (24:45) Orgeron's Brutal Camp (26:26) First Game Trick Play Touchdown (29:28) Gear Cleats and No Swag (33:10) NIL Money and the Stipend (36:38) Broadcast Journalism Degree (37:28) Begging Houston Nutt for the Ball (38:48) Five Minutes Against South Carolina (39:43) First in SEC History (40:05) Back to Back Cotton Bowl MVP (41:00) 282 Yards on Tennessee (42:56) Orgeron's Message Through Dad (43:36) Scouts Start Sniffing (45:41) Study Tables and Football Classes (47:23) Choosing an Agent (49:34) Combine Prep in McKinney (51:03) Finishing the Degree Twenty Years Later (52:10) Draft Day on the Couch (54:18) The Call From Clark Hunt (56:28) Dad's Number 22 (57:04) First Signing Bonus (58:06) Buying Mom a House (01:01:55) Last Old School Training Camp (01:02:44) Monday Night Football Debut (01:05:10) Just Catch the Ball (01:06:10) 94 Yards Chiefs Record (01:06:44) Cassel Pollard and Small Worlds (01:07:32) Andy Reid and the Pro Bowl (01:08:55) Just a Punt Returner (01:09:12) Twelve Million to Tennessee (01:11:03) Everybody Comes Out of the Woodwork (01:13:36) Derrick Henry Wants 22 (01:15:00) The Grim Reaper (01:15:51) Captain Then Cut (01:17:00) You Will See Me Again (01:17:34) Crying All the Way Home (01:18:00) Ken's Berlin Humiliation (01:19:16) Three Weeks Without a Team (01:20:12) San Diego and Atlanta Call (01:21:49) Fractured Arm and Wanting Home (01:23:11) First Retirement (01:24:04) Toronto Argonauts Detour (01:27:38) Depression on the Patio (01:29:00) Don't Forget Who You Are (01:29:20) McCluster Fit Is Born (01:29:56) One Last Season in Worcester (01:31:46) Father Ryan and Family Now (01:32:19) Neighbors and the Tailgate (01:34:01) Where to Find Dexter (01:34:39) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jordan Rogers was using heroin at 15. By the time he landed in county jail, he weighed 116 pounds. His parents had spent his college fund on rehab, and he was facing the possibility of 20 years in prison. I know what it’s like to organize your entire life around getting high. There was a lot in this conversation that hit home for me.  We get into his 396 days locked up, what finally changed when he stopped trying to outsmart every rule, and what happened when he read his mother’s account of everything his addiction had put her through. Getting sober wasn’t the finish line. He became a personal trainer, earned his degree at SMU, and spent four and a half years chasing a job at Nike. He went from working in a factory store to becoming a brand director, working with some of the biggest names in sports.  Then he made another hard decision: leaving the job he’d spent years trying to get. We talk about choosing his family, building his own business, and why neither of us wants to give up the freedom of working for ourselves. Jordan didn’t get to undo his past. He had to get honest about it and decide what he was going to do next. That’s what this conversation is about.  Follow Jordan on Instagram: @jordanrogers.  Please subscribe, leave a comment, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it.  Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout   Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Jordan Rogers (00:48) Mindset Over Hype (02:22) Radical Accountability (06:35) Prison Programs Debate (08:37) Guard Life Inside (11:08) Growing Up in Dallas (11:43) Sponsor Break Roka (13:21) Sports Dreams Collapse (16:49) Heroin at Fifteen (21:50) Addiction War Stories (24:57) Parents Intervene (28:36) Hustle to Healing (33:46) First Arrest at Fourteen (37:38) Coke Bust Setup (39:46) Busted Before 19 (40:48) Tiny Bag Big Charge (42:24) Deferred Probation Trap (43:47) Relapse And Highway Chase (45:08) Beating Drug Tests Fails (48:06) County Detox Reality (52:00) Vivitrol And Suboxone (56:56) Kicked Out Sober (01:00:31) Jail Cell Surrender (01:05:21) SAFP Last Chance (01:08:37) Release And Recovery Start (01:09:11) Chasing The Nike Dream (01:10:57) Ekin Role Explained (01:15:12) Hustling To Stand Out (01:18:15) Nike Campus Gearhead (01:18:25) NIL Changed Everything (01:18:54) Outworking the MBA Crowd (01:19:29) Nike Alpha Competitions (01:20:11) Climbing Nike Football (01:21:36) Sneaker Perks and Collections (01:24:21) Golf Gear and Clubs (01:27:31) Moving for Family (01:31:00) Leaving Nike Leap (01:33:33) NIL Consulting Pivot (01:36:37) Unemployable Freedom (01:51:13) Skin in the Game (01:53:54) Wrap Up and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rich Galgano came back from Vegas so broke that a friend had to pay to get his car out of the airport parking lot. He swore he was done gambling. Then he got home, found $500, and went straight back to another casino. I know what it’s like to promise yourself you’re finished and then do the same shit again.  This week, I sat down with Rich to talk about the gambling addiction that was taking over his life, the three-day bender that finally made him ask for help, and walking into Gamblers Anonymous at 23. He told me he hasn’t gambled in nearly 33 years. But getting out of the casino was just the beginning.  Rich and his business partner started Windy City Wire with a $100,000 bank line and a business plan they worked out at Subway. Almost immediately, they were fighting a lawsuit that threatened to shut them down. The story of how he found the right lawyer and fought back is f*****g unbelievable. He went on to build a company that sold to Diploma PLC in a $465 million deal in 2020.  We get into recovery, knowing your worth, choosing the right partners, buying back your own business, and why money doesn’t fix what’s going on in your head. Rich also shares the heart problems that forced him to take his health seriously and what he’s building now with Scylos and Reload. This guy can tell a story. Hope you guys enjoy this one.  Follow Rich: @richgalganoHis book: Down to the Wire: The Outlandish Tale of How I Quit Gambling to Win Big. Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Rich Galgano (00:40) Sponsor Shoutout Roka (01:08) Growing Up in Bolingbrook (02:01) Old School Childhood Lessons (04:23) Sports Setback Sparks Drive (06:51) Early Gambling and Work Ethic (08:27) College Poker and Party Fight (13:08) Riverboat Casinos Take Over (15:01) Blackjack Wins and Two Lives (16:45) Wire and Cable Sales Origins (21:57) Cold Calling and Big Margins (25:05) Chapter 11 Chaos and Mentors (29:53) Benders and Rock Bottom Signs (30:59) Broke at O'Hare (31:30) Back to the Casino (32:51) Three-Day Betting Spiral (34:30) Calling 1-800-GAMBLER (35:47) First GA Meeting Reality (39:14) 33 Years Clean (40:50) Clarity and Career Ambition (45:47) Starting the Wire Business (48:53) TRO Lawsuit Shock (52:39) GA Connection Finds Real Lawyer (59:16) Dan Purdum Courtroom Turnaround (01:02:22) Depositions and Fighting Back (01:03:14) Leaking Price Fixing (01:04:31) Winkle Breaks Under Deposition (01:06:40) Settlement Without Paying (01:08:44) Business Explodes After Lawsuit (01:09:25) Why Take Investors (01:10:16) Marriage and Staying Grounded (01:12:49) Money Doesn’t Fix You (01:13:42) Raising Money in LA (01:19:46) Taking Chips Off Table (01:20:40) Dodging a Bad LBO (01:23:15) The $6.5M Wire Moment (01:25:08) Private Equity Exit Pressure (01:28:48) The Great Buyback (01:33:04) Selling for $465M (01:35:34) Why Sell to Strategic (01:36:53) Family Office Focus (01:37:09) Cylos Endpoint Vision (01:38:06) Embezzlement and Rebuild (01:38:44) Stateless OS Explained (01:40:48) Go To Market Fundraising (01:41:30) Son Runs Investments (01:42:47) Venture Lessons and Diligence (01:47:53) Health Scare Wake Up (01:53:24) Longevity and Biohacking (01:58:05) Reload Recovery Tool (02:06:00) HYROX and Family Drive (02:09:17) Book Plug and Wrap Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices