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In this episode, Danielle and David sit down with Rachel Hale, one of our leading sources for our ongoing Busch Gardens Tampa Bay campaign. Rachel spent seven years at Busch Gardens as a senior keeper, working hands-on with great apes, cheetahs, and ambassador animals, with a behind-the-scenes view of nearly every corner of the park, including the elephant program. She believes good zoos can exist, and calls her own stance pro-accountability. That's what makes her account so hard to dismiss. Together they trace what she watched change: leadership turnover that severed the bonds between keepers and animals, a culture where raising a welfare concern could cost you friendships, and an elephant program wedged between roller coasters and fireworks. It comes at a decisive moment — Busch Gardens is reportedly working to bring in more elephants as it approaches its 2027 AZA reaccreditation — and Rachel makes the case, from the inside, for why the answer should be the opposite. 🔗 Follow Rachel on Instagram: @iamrachelhale About the Weeping Elephant Project The Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. ✊ Learn more about the campaign & take action for the Busch Gardens elephants: https://weepingelephant.org/busch 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject

In 2008, Courtney walked into the Oregon Zoo while working on a film about animals and saw an elephant named Packy pacing back and forth in a steel-barred enclosure. He was 47 years old. He had been doing this every day of his life. In that moment, Courtney experienced what she calls satori — a sudden, full recognition of another being's experience. Not observation. Not sympathy. Understanding. She founded Free the Oregon Zoo Elephants that same year. She has not stopped since. Today, as Elephant Consultant for In Defense of Animals, Courtney leads the annual 10 Worst Zoos for Elephants list and campaigns for captive elephants across the country, from Tulsa to LA to her home base in Portland. In this conversation, we talk about the fight she lost for Packy, the fight she's still waging for Billy and Tina, why breeding is the linchpin, and a new multi-organization coalition working to ban captive elephant breeding state by state. We also ask the question at the center of all of this: a two-year-old girl looked at Packy and said, "Mommy, that elephant is sad." When do the rest of us lose the ability to see what she saw? About Courtney Scott & In Defense of Animals Courtney Scott is a photographer, filmmaker, and the Elephant Consultant for In Defense of Animals, where she leads the annual 10 Worst Zoos for Elephants in North America campaign. She is the founder of Free the Oregon Zoo Elephants and the writer, director, and producer of the documentary From Suffering to Satori, which chronicles her personal journey from awareness to advocacy. 🎬 Watch From Suffering to Satori: https://vimeo.com/115723608/7f01e6add6 🌐 https://www.idausa.org/campaign/elephants 🌐 https://freeoregonzooelephants.org 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/f.o.z.e 🐘 Take action for elephants: https://www.idausa.org/campaign/elephants/take-action About the Weeping Elephant Project The Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing, and follow along with our work: 🌐 https://www.weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/weepingelephantproject

For the first time in years, Jordan World Circus is touring without elephants. In early 2026, the circus confirmed it would not use elephants for the rest of its tour. In this episode, Danielle and David sit down with Debbie Metzler of PETA to unpack how that decision came about, what it means for the elephants who had been on the road, and whether it will hold. At the center of the story is Viola, the elephant PETA has called "the most desperate elephant in the world." Taken from her home as a baby more than five decades ago, she has spent her life with Carson & Barnes Circus and has tried to escape at least four times, including the viral 2024 walk through the streets of Butte, Montana. Debbie traces the campaign that tracked Jordan World to every stop, the leasing loophole that lets a circus with a revoked USDA license keep using elephants anyway, the economics that make the elephant rides worth more than the tickets, and the settlements that let repeat offenders wipe their records clean. This is a real victory, and it is not the finish line. Viola and sixteen other elephants are still confined at the Endangered Ark Foundation in Oklahoma, where public bathing encounters and bullhooks continue. The conversation closes where every fight like this one does: with what it will take to get these elephants somewhere they can finally just be elephants, and what each of us can do to help them get there. About Debbie Metzler & PETADebbie Metzler is the Managing Director of Captive Wildlife for PETA's Captive Animal Law Enforcement division, where she oversees campaigns and legal advocacy on behalf of wild animals used in circuses, roadside zoos, and other traveling attractions. PETA has campaigned against Jordan World Circus and its use of animals for more than thirty years. You can urge Carson & Barnes Circus to end its animal acts and retire Viola and the other elephants to a reputable sanctuary, and sign up for PETA's news and action alerts to follow this campaign and others. 🌐 peta.org ✊ Take action for Viola: https://support.peta.org/page/1131/action/1 📸 Instagram: @peta About the Weeping Elephant ProjectWeeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Change is more accessible through collaboration. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: 🌐 weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject

Sangita Iyer didn't set out to make a film that would be nominated at the United Nations General Assembly. She set out to tell the truth about what was happening to elephants in the temples of Kerala — and the truth turned out to be something the world needed to see. In this episode, Sangita takes us inside her decades of work documenting the plight of temple elephants in India — the suffering hidden behind centuries of tradition, the cultural and institutional forces that work to keep it that way, and what it has cost her personally to keep speaking anyway. We also explore the work of the Voice for Asian Elephants Society, from a robotic elephant project challenging the need for live animals in religious festivals, to securing corridor land that keeps wild elephants out of villages and out of captivity in the first place. This is a conversation about what happens when you can't look away — and what you build when looking away is no longer an option. About Sangita Iyer & the Voice for Asian Elephants SocietySangita Iyer is a biologist, journalist, and filmmaker whose work has brought the plight of Asian elephants to a global audience. Her documentary Gods in Shackles received 13 international film festival awards and was nominated at the UN General Assembly. Sangita is also the recipient of the Nari Shakti Puraskar — India's highest civilian honor for women — awarded by the President of India for her work exposing the exploitation of elephants in the name of culture and religion. Dr. Jane Goodall has written the foreword to Sangita's book and endorsed the Voice for Asian Elephants Society, calling the work essential. Through VFAES, Sangita continues to fight for wild and captive Asian elephants through advocacy, education, and on-the-ground conservation projects. 🌐 vfaes.org 🎬 Watch Gods in Shackles: unchainedtv.com 📖 Gods in Shackles — the book: amazon.com About the Weeping Elephant ProjectWeeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: weepingelephant.org 🌐 weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject

Frank Pope came to elephants by accident. He spent years with his eyes fixed on the ocean, until he looked into the eye of an elephant in Samburu and felt the same thing he'd felt looking into a whale's eye. That was enough. In this episode, Frank takes us inside the research engine at Save the Elephants, from using AI to assess camera-trap footage to reveal that scientists were missing 30% of elephants in aerial surveys, to the groundbreaking study that proved elephants give each other names. We also wrestle with the harder question underneath all of it — whether the upsides of AI in conservation are worth the misinformation, fake fundraising campaigns, and displacement it leaves in its wake. This is a conversation about science, technology, legacy, and what it means to keep fighting for a future that isn't guaranteed. About Frank Pope & Save the ElephantsFrank Pope is the CEO of Save the Elephants, an organization founded by the late Ian Douglas-Hamilton — one of the most significant figures in elephant conservation history, and Frank's father-in-law. Under Frank's leadership, Save the Elephants operates at the center of a continental network of more than 120 organizations across Africa, funding field research, supporting local communities, and developing the tools that are redefining how we understand and protect elephants in the wild. 💛 Donate to support their mission 🌐 savetheelephants.org 📸 Instagram: @savetheelephants About the Weeping Elephant ProjectThe Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing, and follow along with our work: 🌐 weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject

Steve Koyle didn't set out to be a disruptor. He just couldn't stop asking for more. In this episode, Steve takes us through 14 years as an elephant keeper at the Phoenix Zoo, and how his passion for elephant welfare ultimately led to him being fired. It was, he says, the best thing that ever happened to elephants. Today Steve travels the world through Elephant Care Unchained, showing up at zoos, temples, camps, and sanctuaries with one simple goal: whatever this is, make it better. It's unglamorous, exhausting, often heartbreaking work — done without a home address, out of a suitcase, powered entirely by intention. This is a conversation about reform, resilience, and what it means to speak on behalf of animals who didn't sign up for any of this. About Steve Koyle & Elephant Care UnchainedSteve Koyle is the founder of Elephant Care Unchained, a nonprofit working globally to improve elephant welfare by training handlers and supporting the transition to humane care practices. Steve's decades of hands-on experience give him a unique and hard-earned perspective on what elephants in captivity need — and what it takes to change the culture around them. He is currently launching a campaign to help the elephants nobody knows about, bringing awareness and care to captive elephants living in conditions that rarely make headlines. 🌐 elephantcareunchained.com 📸 Instagram: @elephantcareunchained 💛 Donate to support Steve's mission: elephantcareunchained.com/donate About the Weeping Elephant ProjectThe Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: weepingelephant.org 🌐 weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject

What does it actually take for a traumatized elephant to begin to heal? And what does it mean to be a truly ethical traveler in a world where every venue calls itself a sanctuary? In part two of our conversation with Katherine Connor, we move from her personal story into the broader landscape of elephant welfare in Thailand. Kat takes us inside the recovery process at BLES — where no two elephants heal the same way, and where true sanctuary means recognizing that trauma sits differently in every individual. She challenges the misconception that rescue is a fairy tale, and shares what it really looks like when an elephant finally feels safe. We also explore one of the most misunderstood relationships in elephant welfare: the bond between elephants and their mahouts. Kat makes a compelling and compassionate case for why mahouts are not the enemy — and why the responsibility for change lies with all of us. This is a conversation that will challenge the way you think about tourism, advocacy, and what it truly means to put elephants first. About Katherine Connor & BLESKatherine Connor is the founder of Boon Lott's Elephant Sanctuary in Sukhothai, Thailand — one of the world's most respected true sanctuaries for elephants. BLES has been operating for 20+ years and has rescued over 45 elephants in Boon Lott's name, providing them with hundreds of acres of land, a mahout family that has cared for elephants for generations, and a life defined by freedom, space, and dignity. 🌐 blesele.org 📸 Instagram: @blesele 🐘 Adopt an elephant: blesele.org/adopt 💛 Donate: blesele.org/financial-gift About the Weeping Elephant ProjectThe Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: weepingelephant.org 🌐 weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject If you haven't listened yet, go back and start with Part One — A Promise to Boon Lott — to hear Katherine's full origin story and the remarkable life of the elephant who started it all.

At 21 years old, Katherine Connor quit her job, left London, and flew to Thailand — drawn by a lifelong love of elephants she had never actually seen. What she found there would change everything. In this episode, Kat shares the origin story behind Boon Lott's Elephant Sanctuary — from traveling to over 30 elephant venues in search of one that truly put elephants first, to a chance encounter with a premature baby elephant named Boon Lott that would redefine the entire course of her life. This is a conversation about love, grief, purpose, and what it means to dedicate your life to something bigger than yourself. It is one of the most extraordinary origin stories we have ever heard. About Katherine Connor & BLESKatherine Connor is the founder of Boon Lott's Elephant Sanctuary in Sukhothai, Thailand — one of the world's most respected true sanctuaries for elephants. BLES has been operating for 20+ years and has rescued over 45 elephants in Boon Lott's name, providing them with hundreds of acres of land, a mahout family that has cared for elephants for generations, and a life defined by freedom, space, and dignity. 🌐 blesele.org 📸 Instagram: @blesele 🐘 Adopt an elephant: blesele.org/adopt 💛 Donate: blesele.org/financial-gift About the Weeping Elephant ProjectThe Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: weepingelephant.org 🌐 weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject Don't miss Part Two of our conversation with Katherine Connor — Putting Elephants First — where we dive into elephant tourism in Thailand, the role of mahouts, and what recovery truly looks like for elephants once they arrive at a true sanctuary.

What do the people on the front lines of elephant welfare and conservation have in common? They carry a weight most of us will never fully understand — and they carry it anyway. Bearing Weight is a podcast hosted by David Ebert and Danielle Carnahan of the Weeping Elephant Project, dedicated to bringing together the voices of researchers, sanctuary founders, and advocates doing the work for elephants every day. In a world where animal protection organizations often work in isolation, this is a space for their stories to live in one place — for listeners, collaborators, and funders alike. In this teaser, you'll hear from: Frank Pope — CEO of Save the ElephantsKatherine Connor — Founder of Boon Lott's Elephant SanctuaryDavid Ebert — Founder of the Weeping Elephant Project, on why he created this podcast and what he hopes it becomesAbout Bearing WeightBearing Weight is hosted by David Ebert, Founder of the Weeping Elephant Project, and Danielle Carnahan, Executive Director of the Weeping Elephant Project. Together they're building a central space where the people doing elephant work can share what they do, connect with collaborators, and be heard by the people who need to find them. About the Weeping Elephant ProjectThe Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring voices and ideas together within the elephant welfare and conservation space— because the work is stronger when it's shared. 💛 Consider donating to our mission: weepingelephant.org 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject New episodes coming soon. Follow or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss them.