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Dantas S, Jasper C, Botha M, Strachan K, Grainger C. Autism and Thriving: A Critical Review of the Academic Literature. Autism in Adulthood. 2026;8(5):827-838. doi:10.1089/aut.2024.0228 Cage, E., Crompton, C. J., Dantas, S., Strachan, K., Birch, R., Robinson, M., Morgan-Appel, S., MacKenzie-Nash, C., Gallagher, A., & Botha, M. (2024). What are the autism research priorities of autistic adults in Scotland? Autism, 28(9), 2179-2190. https://doi.org/10.1177/13623613231222656 It’s A Superpower?? Loud Hands Project World Health Organization World Report on Disability Researchers Sarah Dantas https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sarah-Dantas-3 https://orcid.org/0009-0003-4396-3392 https://autihub.org/en/bib/authors/391/ Carol Jasper https://www.stir.ac.uk/people/267181 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carol-Jasper https://autihub.org/en/bib/authors/510/ Monique Botha https://www.durham.ac.uk/staff/monique-d-botha/ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Monique-Botha https://autihub.org/en/bib/authors/94/ Khiah Strachan https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Khiah-Strachan-2234289059 https://autihub.org/en/bib/authors/392/ Catherine Grainger https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Catherine-Grainger https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7506-6176 https://autihub.org/en/bib/authors/511/

In a succinct conclusion to Vanessa's interview with Brett Heasman, they talk about ways in which flow can be negative, the challenges around measuring flow, stimming as an aid to focus, flow in education settings, and the importance of sharing research outside of academia. For the second half she is joined by Jan Goh and they discuss a paper by Catherine Caldwell-Harris on autistic interests. Brett Heasman Heasman Flow Lab Brett Heasman’s ResearchGate profile Sensory Street Autistic Flow Heasman, B., Williams, G., Charura, D., Hamilton, L. G., Milton, D., & Murray, F. (2024). Towards autistic flow theory: A non-pathologising conceptual approach. Journal for the Theory of Social Behaviour, 54(4), 469–497. https://doi.org/10.1111/jtsb.12427 A podcast of the authors discussing the paper: Wain, D., G.Williams, D.Charura, et al. 2026. “Transitioning in and out of Autistic Flow: A Qualitative Study Presenting a Non-Pathologising Approach to Autistic Well-Being and Conceptualising Autistic Ways of Being in Clinical and Therapeutic Settings.” Counselling and Psychotherapy Research26, no. 1: e70073. https://doi.org/10.1002/capr.70073. Understanding Autistic Flow with Dr Brett Heasman - The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast Open Minds Open Minds Exhibition LSE Research | Brett Heasman on improving public understanding of autism Autistic Interests Caldwell-Harris CL (2026) Autistic interests: wide-ranging and intellectually oriented. Front. Psychiatry 17:1749552. doi:10.3389/fpsyt.2026.1749552 https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2026.1749552/full Caldwell-Harris Lab Catherine Caldwell-Harris (ResearchGate)

This brief two episode interview with Dr. Brett Heasman starts with a conversation about his views on human flourishing, neurodiversity and flow, and public perceptions of autism. Brett Heasman Heasman Flow Lab Brett Heasman’s ResearchGate profile Sensory Street Autistic Flow Heasman, B., Williams, G., Charura, D., Hamilton, L. G., Milton, D., & Murray, F. (2024). Towards autistic flow theory: A non-pathologising conceptual approach. Journal for the Theory of Social Behaviour, 54(4), 469–497. https://doi.org/10.1111/jtsb.12427 A podcast of the authors discussing the paper Wain, D., G.Williams, D.Charura, et al. 2026. “Transitioning in and out of Autistic Flow: A Qualitative Study Presenting a Non-Pathologising Approach to Autistic Well-Being and Conceptualising Autistic Ways of Being in Clinical and Therapeutic Settings.” Counselling and Psychotherapy Research26, no. 1: e70073. https://doi.org/10.1002/capr.70073. Understanding Autistic Flow with Dr Brett Heasman – The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast Complimentary Cognition Taylor H, Fernandes B, Wraight S. The Evolution of Complementary Cognition: Humans Cooperatively Adapt and Evolve through a System of Collective Cognitive Search. Cambridge Archaeological Journal. 2022;32(1):61-77. doi:10.1017/S0959774321000329 Open Minds Open Minds Exhibition LSE Research | Brett Heasman on improving public understanding of autism (Show Notes Continued)

Vince and Vanessa review, in a trice, research about who self-identifies as Autistic and why, followed by a state-of-the-art paper on why terms like "profound autism" and functioning labels (i.e.: high-functioning or low-functioning) end up causing harm. Ahuvia IL, Gurbuz E, Cuda J, et al. Identifying as Autistic Without a Formal Diagnosis: Who Self-Identifies as Autistic and Why? Autism in Adulthood. 2026;0(0). doi:10.1177/25739581251409920 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/25739581251409920 Kapp, S.K. Profound Concerns about “Profound Autism”: Dangers of Severity Scales and Functioning Labels for Support Needs. Educ. Sci. 2023, 13, 106. https://doi.org/10.3390/educsci13020106 https://www.mdpi.com/2081376 Show notes

Vince and Vanessa race through a discussion of Autistic Burnout by going through a paper that describes it and its causes. Masking is a big contributor so they also talk about Devon Price's book Unmasking for Life. They open with describing implicit bias. Show notes

Vince and Vanessa talk with some alacrity about how Mad Studies and Neurodiversity can work together, as well as about Mad History and Politics. Show Notes

Vince and Vanessa zip through 2 papers on hypercuriosity as a framework for ADHD. The first lays out the theory, and the second is a survey-based study on curiosity and ADHD traits. They then discuss a paper making a call for the establishment of Critical ADHD Studies as a field. Show Notes Spoon Theory The original spoon theory essay: https://web-wp.archive.org/web/20251002173043/https://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/ Christine Miserandino reading her original piece about spoon theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn5IBsm49Rk Spoon Theory For Autism And ADHD: The Neurodivergent Spoon Drawer https://neurodivergentinsights.com/the-neurodivergent-spoon-drawer-spoon-theory-for-adhders-and-autists Hypercuriosity Le Cunff, AL. Distractibility and Impulsivity in ADHD as an Evolutionary Mismatch of High Trait Curiosity. Evolutionary Psychological Science 10, 282–297 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1007/s40806-024-00400-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-024-00400-8 The Hypercurious Mind https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-hypercuriosity-of-adhd-may-have-helped-humans-thrive Le Cunff, AL., Russell, C. & Dommett, E.J. Hyperactive–impulsive ADHD traits predict higher curiosity in adults: evidence from a cross-sectional study. BMC Psychol (2026). https://doi.org/10.1186/s40359-026-04504-7 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/403686915_Hyperactive-impulsive_ADHD_traits_predict_higher_curiosity_in_adults_evidence_from_a_cross-sectional_study Calls For Critical ADHD Studies Jackson-Perry, D., Bertilsdotter Rosqvist, H., & Brown, A. I. (2025). Moving forward: a call for Critical ADHD Studies. Disability & Society, 40(12), 3519–3524. https://doi.org/10.1080/09687599.2025.2458016 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09687599.2025.2458016 Max characters reached. Show notes continued here: https://autisticsmalltalk.com

Vince and Vanessa discourse expediently upon 2 papers about Autistic Flow. The first describes a proposed theory of Autistic Flow and the second is a qualitative study of Autistic people transitioning in and out of flow. We also talk about anarchist callisthenics. Anarchist Callisthenics Anarchist Callisthenics video https://www.tiktok.com/@jonjon.jpeg/video/7597533190965808398 The Happy Urbanist https://www.thehappyurbanist.city/ Autistic Flow Heasman, B., Williams, G., Charura, D., Hamilton, L. G., Milton, D., & Murray, F. (2024). Towards autistic flow theory: A non-pathologising conceptual approach. Journal for the Theory of Social Behaviour, 54(4), 469–497. https://doi.org/10.1111/jtsb.12427 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/JDZZFXR6URAUQTXPD34U?target=10.1111/jtsb.12427 A podcast of the authors discussing the paper: https://youtu.be/lGrLMPXJAuk Wain, D., G.Williams, D.Charura, et al. 2026. “Transitioning in and out of Autistic Flow: A Qualitative Study Presenting a Non-Pathologising Approach to Autistic Well-Being and Conceptualising Autistic Ways of Being in Clinical and Therapeutic Settings.” Counselling and Psychotherapy Research26, no. 1: e70073. https://doi.org/10.1002/capr.70073. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/CXWVCJMS7ST8E6MNAXNK?target=10.1002/capr.70073 Character limit reached. Show notes continued at: https://autisticsmalltalk.com

Vince and Vanessa concisely review 9 different models of disability and a chapter in "Conversations on Empathy",authored by Damian Milton, Krysia Emily Waldock, and Nathan Keates, and titled: Autism and the ‘double empathy problem’. Odd Pride (Astrid) https://oddpride.com/ Shanidar 1 https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/878896381/ancient-bones-offer-clues-to-how-long-ago-humans-cared-for-the-vulnerable Disability Models Lawson, A., & Beckett, A. E. (2021). The social and human rights models of disability: towards a complementarity thesis. The International Journal of Human Rights, 25(2), 348–379. https://doi.org/10.1080/13642987.2020.1783533 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13642987.2020.1783533#d1e177 Berghs M, Atkin K, Graham H, et al. Implications for public health research of models and theories of disability: a scoping study and evidence synthesis. Southampton (UK): NIHR Journals Library; 2016 Jul. (Public Health Research, No. 4.8.) doi: 10.3310/phr04080 Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK378941/ 10 Principles of Disability Justice https://sinsinvalid.org/10-principles-of-disability-justice/ Damian Milton The Participatory Autism Research Collective https://participatoryautismresearch.wordpress.com/2025/12/18/parc-critical-autism-studies-conference-2026-call-for-submissions/ The Double Empathy Problem Milton, Damian & Waldock, Krysia & Keates, Nathan. (2023). Autism and the ‘double empathy problem’. 10.4324/9781003189978-6. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366888965_Autism_and_the_'double_empathy_problem' Milton, Damian. (2012). On the ontological status of autism: The 'double empathy problem'. Disability & Society - DISABIL SOC. 27. 1-5. 10.1080/09687599.2012.710008. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254245139_On_the_ontological_status_of_autism_The_'double_empathy_problem' Character limit reached Show notes continued at: https://autisticsmalltalk.com

Vince and Vanessa efficiently finish their discussion of Nick Walker’s dissertation (Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration). They talk about ParaTheatrical ReSearch, autistic aptitudes, reconnecting with stimming, and autistic wellbeing. Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertation Walker, Nick (2019) Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. [Doctoral Dissertaion, California Institute of Integral Studies]. https://neuroqueer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nick_Walker_Dissertation.pdf Weird Luck (Nick Walker’s comic with co-creators Andrew M. Reichart, and Mike Bennewitz) https://weirdluck.net/ Connected with Jen and Shannon What the Heck is Embodiment Anyway with Nick Walker https://youtu.be/MgXQG9lP-Bc?si=cgTCn2a1dn8RUPnu ParaTheatrical ReSearch Archive https://www.paratheatrical.com/info.html Expressive Movement/Dance Therapies (Transformative somatic practices for reconnecting to stimming) Continuum https://continuummovement.com Authentic Movement https://www.authenticmovementinstitute.com/authenticmovement Songs of the Gorilla Nation Songs of the Gorilla Nation by Dawn Prince-Hughes https://www.indiebookstores.ca/book/9781400050581/

Vince and Vanessa dash through part 2 of their discussion of Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration by Nick Walker. This includes stories of Nick Walker's experiences with aikido, how he came to start training, how it changed his embodiment, and how his autistic traits benefitted not only him but his students. Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertation Walker, Nick (2019) Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. [Doctoral Dissertaion, California Institute of Integral Studies]. https://neuroqueer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nick_Walker_Dissertation.pdf Nick Walker’s writings https://neuroqueer.com/ Murmurations Beautiful footage by Jan van IJken of starling flight: https://youtu.be/V4f_1_r80RY?si=6fl9VCIUnFiuPIYT

Vince and Vanessa fly through part 1 of excitedly describing Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertation, which is entitled: Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. As you can imagine, Vanessa is completely delighted. Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertation Walker, Nick (2019) Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. [Doctoral Dissertaion, California Institute of Integral Studies]. https://neuroqueer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nick_Walker_Dissertation.pdf ABA causing harm Citations from Nick Walker’s dissertation about lifelong post-traumatic stress symptoms: Asasumasu, K. (2013b, November 7). The tyranny of indistinguishability: performance [Web log post]. Retrieved from http://timetolisten.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-tyranny-of-indistinguishability.html Bascom, J. (2012). Quiet hands. In J. Bascom (Ed.), Loud hands: Autistic people, speaking (pp. 177–182). Washington, DC: Autistic Press. Dawson, M. (2004). The misbehaviour of behaviourists: Ethical challenges to the autism-ABA industry. Retrieved from http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_aba.html Kupferstein, H. (2018). Evidence of increased PTSD symptoms in autistics exposed to applied behavior analysis. Advances in Autism, (4)1, 19–29. Silberman, S. (2015). NeuroTribes: The legacy of autism and the future of neurodiversity. New York, NY: Avery. Yergeau, M. (2018). Authoring autism: On rhetoric and neurological queerness. Durham, NC: Duke University Press.

Vince and Vanessa have a brisk chat about Dyslexic Strengths and Complimentary Cognition. Professor Chesko: “You Can’t Blame Everything on Your Autism” A Response to a Critique I Never Asked For By the excellent Professor Chesko https://open.substack.com/pub/thespeechprof/p/you-cant-blame-everything-on-your?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web Dyslexic Strengths and Complementary Cognition: Taylor H and Vestergaard MD (2022) Developmental Dyslexia: Disorder or Specialization in Exploration?. Front. Psychol. 13:889245. doi: 10.3389/fpsyg.2022.889245 https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.889245/full Taylor H, Fernandes B, Wraight S. The Evolution of Complementary Cognition: HumansCooperatively Adapt and Evolve through a System of Collective Cognitive Search. Cambridge Archaeological Journal. 2022;32(1):61-77. doi:10.1017/S0959774321000329 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-archaeological-journal/article/evolution-of-complementary-cognition-humans-cooperatively-adapt-and-evolve-through-a-system-of-collective-cognitivesearch/F198B30682343E92C7E9C986332D380A Erbeli, F.; Rice, M.; Paracchini, S. Insights into Dyslexia Genetics Research from the Last Two Decades. Brain Sci. 2022, 12, 27. https://doi.org/10.3390/brainsci12010027 Neanderthal Art: It’s Official: Neanderthals Created Art https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/neanderthal-art-discovery/

Vince and Vanessa cruise through Elliot Wassell's paper Experiences of Autistic Joy. Then they discuss glimmers, and share 2 field recordings containing stories of Autistic Joy. Wassell, E. (2025). Experiences of autistic joy. Disability & Society, 1–26. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09687599.2025.2498417 Autistic Girls Network: https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/ Glimmers https://autisticrealms.com/glimmers-autistic-joy-and-monotropism/ Life writings of Autistic people mentioned in Wassell’s paper: McAnulty, D. 2020. Diary of a Young Naturalist. London: Ebury. Kedar, I. 2012. Ido in Autismland: Climbing out of Autism’s Silent Prison. Sharon Kedar. Tammet, D. 2006. Born on a Blue Day: A Memoir of Asperger’s and an Extraordinary Mind. London: Hodder and Stoughton. Williams, D. 1992. Nobody Nowhere. London, Doubleday. Mór, C. 2007. A Blessing and a Curse: Autism and Me. London: Jessica Kingsley. James, L. 2017. Odd Girl Out: An Autistic Woman in a Neurotypical World. London: Bluebird. Lawson, W. 2000. Life Behind Glass: A Personal Account of Autism Spectrum Disorder. London Mountain Mansion Mentioned in Vince’s field recordings: https://mountainmansion.bandcamp.com/

Vince and Vanessa talk fleetingly about contradictory research on autistic neural connectomes and swiftly cover 2 papers on strengths-based approaches to identifying and working with Autistic people. Autistic Connectomes Human Connectome Project: https://www.humanconnectome.org/ Nick Walker forever The essay in which the greatly admired Nick Walker says: “Ultimately, to describe autism as a disorder represents a value judgment rather than a scientific fact.” https://neuroqueer.com/what-is-autism/ Strengths-based Autistic Identification Matt Lowry’s Reframing of the DSM Criteria: https://www.mattlowrylpp.com/blog/reframing-dsm-autism-criteria Autistic Culture Podcast: https://www.autisticculturepodcast.com/ Woods SEO, Estes A. Toward a more comprehensive autism assessment: the survey of autistic strengths, skills, and interests. Front Psychiatry. 2023 Oct 6;14:1264516. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1264516. PMID: 37867767; PMCID: PMC10587489. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10587489/ YAFAI, A.-F., VERRIER, Diarmuid and REIDY, Lisa (2014). Social conformity and autism spectrum disorder : a child-friendly take on a classic study. Autism, 18 (8),1007-1013. [Article] https://shura.shu.ac.uk/7450/3/Verrier_Autism_and_Conformity.pdf Urbanowicz A, Nicolaidis C, den Houting J, Shore SM, Gaudion K, Girdler S, Savarese RJ. An Expert Discussion on Strengths-Based Approaches in Autism. Autism Adulthood. 2019 Jun1;1(2):82-89. doi: 10.1089/aut.2019.29002.aju. Epub 2019 Apr 13. PMID: 36601531; PMCID:PMC8992818. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8992818/ Dr. Katie Gaudion https://www.rca.ac.uk/more/staff/dr-katie-gaudion/ Dr. Ralph James Savarese https://www.ralphsavarese.com/ Autistic Joy Wassell, E. (2025). Experiences of autistic joy. Disability & Society, 1–26. https://doi.org/10.1080/09687599.2025.2498417