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How does cultural and moral renewal actually happen? Two schools of thought emerge to answer this recurring question from the 2026 Understory festival. The first argues that critical mass is the key to social change, requiring enough people mobilized to tip institutions, policies, and norms. The second, based on John Paul Lederach's theory of critical yeast, posits that culture change is rarely the size of a coalition but the quality and placement of small, leavening minorities operating in the right relationships at the right moments. While the distinction may seem academic, it shapes how funders deploy capital, how organizers build, how pastors imagine their congregations, and how every person of conviction decides where to spend their finite life. In this debate on tomorrow's theory of change, Cherie Harder, The Trinity Forum president and longtime Comment collaborator, stewards four perspectives. Leadership coach and nonprofit executive Lisa Slayton reflects on the critical yeast change that occurs in Alcoholics Anonymous. Louis Kim, a former VP at Hewlett Packard and now a master of divinity student at Duke, addresses the hazards of critical yeast becoming a "cocoon of righteous irrelevance." Ian DeWaard of the Christian Labor Association of Canada argues that while a small community can model dignity, it cannot on its own secure the kinds of societal changes that underlie that passion and those ideas. And David Bailey, founder of Arrabon, draws us back to the power of two-by-two ministry and what Jesus's form of ministry teaches us about scaling. Mentioned: The Moral Imagination: The Art and Soul of Building Peace, by John Paul Lederach; To Change the World, by James Davison Hunter; the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and the Rev. Sam Shoemaker; Abraham Kuyper and Pope Leo XIII; "Whispering to a Revolution," by Louis Kim (via Comment); Christianity at the Crossroads: The Global Church from the Print Revolution to the Digital Era, by David N. Hempton; Mark 4; Hebrews 11 Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you listen, and find every episode at https://comment.org/shows/the-understory/ Episode Highlights "Movements are rarely built by people obsessed with immediate results, high impact, and fast scale. They are built by people willing to plant faithfully, invest relationally, and surrender outcomes." (Lisa Slayton) "The stone is in the cathedral. It's not in the quarry." (Louis Kim, on purpose-built change) "Yeast is necessary, but it's not sufficient." (Ian DeWaard) "What oftentimes gets lost is the level of formation and discipleship." (David Bailey, on the Civil Rights Movement) "Show up, be fully present, tell the truth, release the outcomes." (Lisa Slayton, closing reflection) About the Panel Cherie Harder (moderator): President of The Trinity Forum, senior fellow at Cardus, and member of Comment's editorial board. Lisa Slayton: Founding partner and CEO of Tamim Partners, former Pittsburgh Leadership Foundation president, and coauthor of Life in Flux. Louis Kim: Comment contributing editor and former Hewlett-Packard vice president, now studying hospice and palliative care at Duke Divinity School. Ian DeWaard: Ontario and Manitoba director of CLAC (Christian Labour Association of Canada), with the union since 2000. David Bailey: Founder and CEO of Arrabon, a spiritual formation ministry cultivating reconciling communities; public theologian and ordained minister. Helpful Links and Resources The Moral Imagination: The Art and Soul of Building Peace, John Paul Lederach's book on peacebuilding and critical yeast: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-moral-imagination-9780199747580 "Whispering to a Revolution," Louis Kim's Comment essay on social movements: https://comment.org/whispering-to-a-revolution Christianity at the Crossroads: The Global Church from the Print Revolution to the Digital Era, David N. Hempton's book on networks, nodes, and nuclei: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/christianity-at-the-crossroads/85E469C200B4C553A9ADFB1234713E8B Cherie Harder at The Trinity Forum: https://ttf.org/about-us/trinity-forum-staff Life in Flux, coauthored by Lisa Pratt Slayton: https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/authors/lisa-pratt-slayton/3814 Louis Kim at Comment: https://comment.org/contributors/louis-kim Ian DeWaard at CLAC: https://www.clac.ca/Your-voice/Article/clac-director-awarded-the-king-charles-iii-coronation-medal Arrabon, founded by David Bailey: https://arrabon.com/about #TheUnderstory #CommentMagazine #CriticalYeast #CriticalMass #SocialChange #TheoryOfChange #CultureChange #FaithAndPublicLife #CivilRights

With a jolt through his spine, Christian Wiman's poem "In the Time of Fire" came to him. Included in his latest collection of poetry, The Dance, the poem's speaker shifts from a man to a woman, addressing the world as a prophetic voice of wisdom. Recorded live on May 29, 2026, Wiman recited his poem in the great nave of the Washington National Cathedral, to the crowd at the Understory Uprising, the festival's public evening of music and testimony. Episode Highlights "I had a sense of a prophetic voice speaking, and it sort of came to me at night once." (Christian Wiman, on the poem's origin) "It went with a jolt through my spine, 'cause it hadn't occurred to me." (Christian Wiman, on the voice of wisdom) Mentioned: "In the Time of Fire"; The Dance, by Christian Wiman; Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian, by Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you get your podcasts: comment.org/podcasts. About Christian Wiman is a poet, essayist, and former editor of Poetry magazine. He is the Clement-Muehl Professor in the Practice of Communication Arts at Yale Divinity School; his seventh collection of poetry, The Dance, was published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux in 2026. Helpful Links and Resources The Dance, Christian Wiman's seventh poetry collection and the source of this poem (FSG, 2026): https://squarebooks.com/book/9780374617400  Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian, by Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman: https://bookshop.org/p/books/glimmerings-letters-on-faith-between-a-poet-and-a-theologian-christian-wiman/1a13ad79a59080d1 #TheUnderstory #ChristianWiman #Poetry #UnderstoryFestival #ChristianHumanism #Comment #TheDance

Friendship was a central theory of change at the Understory, revealing itself in main-stage debates and quiet corridor chats. Few panels demonstrated its power more potently than David Bailey's conversation on arts and patronage. David—a musician, author, producer, and founder of Arrabon—brought together his longtime friend, renowned artist and author Makoto Fujimura, with their mutual friend, writer and philanthropist Roberta Ahmanson, along with justice advocate Haejin Shim Fujimura, Makoto's wife and co-author. The four artistic leaders explore why patrons in earlier eras believed they were responsible not only for funding works of art but for shaping the worlds people lived inside. Roberta describes the compelling example of Gregory the Great, who believed the beautification of a space was as important as the healing and social work that occurred within it. Beauty and service, she insists, cannot be separated. Makoto shares his story of meeting Roberta and her husband Howard decades ago, and of finally exhaling to feel that someone knew the depth of the spiritual intention in his art and the need for patrons to invest in beauty. Haejin calls us to a deeper understanding of patronage as being an advocate and "father figure" to someone, invested in their full flourishing, sharing a powerful story of the composer Vivaldi's work as a redemptive patron. Whether you are an artist looking for guidance on how to develop meaningful relationships with patrons or a patron desiring to deepen your convictions and broaden your reach as a trust-based philanthropist, this conversation among friends will leave you inspired to act and content to pray. This episode was recorded at the Virginia Mae Center at the Washington National Cathedral, on day two of the 2026 Understory festival hosted by Comment magazine. Mentioned: City of God, by Augustine; the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, edited by Thomas Oden; Called to Be Friends, on the friendship of John M. Perkins and Howard Ahmanson; Vivaldi's Four Seasons. Recommended reading: The Gift, by Lewis Hyde; Toxic Charity, by Robert D. Lupton; Art Is, by Makoto Fujimura; Beauty and Justice, by Haejin Shim Fujimura and Makoto Fujimura Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you listen: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and comment.org. Episode Highlights "Beauty and service can't be separated … for the person you're serving because beauty gives them hope … beauty tells you that you matter." (Roberta Ahmanson) "This is not about the arts. This is about the gospel." (Makoto Fujimura) "You choose an artist based on their work and then you let them go … because it's to the glory of God." (Roberta Ahmanson) "Literally, 'patron' means acting as if you are a father of someone." (Haejin Fujimura) "Architecture spoke what the people believed." (Roberta Ahmanson) For artists looking for patrons: "The most important thing is that you become a patron first … you find out very quickly what the privilege of helping an artist means as a patron." (Makoto Fujimura) About the Panel Roberta Green Ahmanson: Writer, art collector, and philanthropist who shapes the arts-and-religion granting of Fieldstead and Company with her husband, Howard. Makoto Fujimura: Internationally renowned artist and writer; author of Art Is and Art+Faith. Haejin Shim Fujimura: Lawyer and justice advocate; author of Beauty and Justice; founding attorney of Shim & Associates and CEO of Embers International, an anti-trafficking NGO. David Bailey: Musician, public theologian, and founder of Arrabon, a ministry equipping the church for reconciliation and culture-making. Helpful Links and Resources Beauty and Justice, by Haejin Shim Fujimura and Makoto Fujimura: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/beauty-and-justice-haejin-shim-fujimura/1147595972 Makoto Fujimura's website: https://makotofujimura.com Embers International, Haejin Shim Fujimura's anti-trafficking NGO: https://www.embersinternational.org Arrabon, David Bailey's reconciliation ministry: https://arrabon.com Roberta Green Ahmanson and Fieldstead and Company: https://www.fieldstead.com/ahmansons The Gift, by Lewis Hyde: https://lewishyde.com/the-gift/ Toxic Charity, by Robert D. Lupton: https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Charity-Churches-Charities-Reverse/dp/0062076213 #TheUnderstory #Comment #Cardus #Arts #ArtPatronage #MakotoFujimura #Arrabon #FaithAndArt #BeautyAndJustice #Philanthropy #RobertaAhmanson

We live in a culture obsessed with productivity, efficiency, speed, and success. But after all the triumph of technological advance, it may still be that the defining condition of our time is not merely acceleration but alienation, marked particularly by the absence of what acceleration destroys: resonance. Coined by German sociologist Hartmut Rosa, "resonance" is the experience of addressing and being addressed by the world—touched, moved, and changed by a two-way relationship rather than one-sided control and consumption. Steven Lawson and Manuel Dürr ask what daily, weekly, and seasonal rhythms restore resonance—not as retreat from the world but preparation to enter it. Lawson is Founder of Monk Manual, a daily formation system for peaceful being and purposeful doing. Dürr is a Swiss painter in Biel; his fourteen-painting Via Crucis was inaugurated in St. Peter's Basilica, February 2026. This episode was recorded at the Virginia Mae Center at the Washington National Cathedral, on day two of the 2026 Understory Festival hosted by Comment Magazine. Mentioned: The Screwtape Letters, by C.S. Lewis; The Lasallian prayer: "Let us remember that we are in the holy presence of God"; Dürr's Via Crucis Vatical Commission; attention; productivity; relationships Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (https://comment.org), published by Cardus (https://www.cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you get your podcasts. Episode Highlights "The thing that I was looking for in productivity was peace. And it was producing the exact opposite effect." (Lawson) "Relationships are inherently inconvenient through the lens of being productive, through the lens of getting things done." (Lawson) "To be interrupted is very, very important because we calcify in our methods." (Dürr) "There's only a very, very short time in life where we could have the illusion of being in control. And I think it's very important to enjoy that we're not in control." (Dürr) Helpful Links and Resources https://monkmanual.com https://www.stevenvlawson.com https://www.manuelandreasduerr.ch https://comment.org/we-are-only-fragments/ (Anne Snyder's Comment interview with Manuel Dürr) https://www.basilicasanpietro.va/en/competition #TheUnderstory #CommentMagazine #Cardus #MonkManual #ViaCrucis #Resonance #RuleOfLife #AttentionManagement #ChristianArt #SlowProductivity

Amber Lapp has spent years living among the people and places she writes about. Not merely taking on economically struggling communities as a neutral observer, but becoming a neighbor. A research fellow at the Institute for Family Studies and co-investigator of the Love and Marriage in Middle America Project, she reads questions of civic renewal through the moral vocabulary of dignity, solidarity, hospitality, and hope—held open on behalf of people who have stopped holding it for themselves. On the opening night of the Understory Festival, she reflected on what those years of listening have taught her—stories of a friend who felt everything she touched turned to ash, a neighbor haunted by anxiety attacks that arrive without warning, and the peculiar loneliness of a life conducted across "a vast digital prairie," where alienation creates the feeling of "living among ghosts." Beneath all of it runs a single question: "How many of our social troubles are downstream from people doubting their dignity?" This reflection originally appeared in our episode, "What Is Struggling to Be Born?" framed by an address from Fr. Tomáš Halík and recorded at the National Cathedral on the Understory's opening night. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you get your podcasts. Episode Highlights "For us screw ups, it means not closing the door on hope." "She felt interiorly hollowed out, worthless, and like everything she touched turned to ash." "On the one hand, people of goodwill, working for nonprofits and institutions and wanting to do good. And then on the other, people who are alienated and squatters on a kind of institutional no man's land." About Amber Lapp Amber Lapp is a research fellow at the Institute for Family Studies, an adviser at American Compass, and co-investigator of the Love and Marriage in Middle America Project, a qualitative study of how working-class young adults form relationships and families. She and her husband David live in southwestern Ohio with their six children, where she volunteers as a catechist at their parish and at Lydia's House, a Catholic Worker house of hospitality for women and children. A member of Braver Angels, she is focused on how ordinary Americans might actually take part in public life. Her writing has appeared in National Review, First Things, USA Today, The Federalist, The American Conservative, Comment, and The Atlantic. She holds a BA in philosophy, politics, and economics from The King's College. Helpful Links and Resources Amber Lapp at the Institute for Family Studies: https://ifstudies.org/about-us/amber-lapp Her writing for IFS: https://ifstudies.org/blog/author/amber-lapp Episode 2: What Is Struggling to Be Born? — Fr. Tomáš Halík https://comment.org/podcasts/what-is-struggling-to-be-born/ pisode 1: Welcome to the Understory, Where the Future Quietly Takes Root — Anne Snyder https://comment.org/podcasts/welcome-to-the-understory/ #TheUnderstory #Comment #Cardus #AmberLapp #WorkingClass #Dignity #CivicLife #Loneliness

Is reality itself a settled fact or an ongoing act of creation? Is some new chapter in history struggling to be born? Or, more demandingly, are we facing our own awakening within it? Poet Christian Wiman weaves together his own thoughts with the words of exiled Russian poet Osip Mandelstam in an effort to notice the entanglement of external reality with our perceiving it—"It is now. / It is not." This intimate dialogue between subject and object suggests that individual consciousness isn't owned as much as it is shared with everything else. And from this awareness, both feeling and healing can emerge. This reflection originally appeared in our episode, "What Is Struggling to Be Born?" framed by an address from Fr. Tomáš Halík and recorded at the National Cathedral on the Understory's opening night. Mentioned: "And I Was Alive," by Osip Mandelstam, translated by Christian Wiman, from Stolen Air: Selected Poems of Osip Mandelstam; Quantum entanglement; Vincent van Gogh; Thales; Heraclitus; Meister Eckhart Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you get your podcasts. Episode Highlights "The world is addressed to us." "What is struggling to be born? I am. You are." "It's as if reality were a constant storm of creation that we only freeze by seeing." "I believe we've entered a time in which the preservation of individual consciousness will be the great battle." About Christian Wiman Christian Wiman is the Clement-Muehl Professor of Communication Arts at Yale Divinity School and the Yale Institute of Sacred Music, where he has taught religion and literature since joining the faculty in 2013. Raised in West Texas and educated at Washington and Lee, he edited Poetry magazine from 2003 to 2013, a decade in which the magazine tripled its circulation and won two National Magazine Awards. He is the author, editor, or translator of fourteen books, among them My Bright Abyss, He Held Radical Light, Survival Is a Style, Zero at the Bone, and Stolen Air, his versions of Osip Mandelstam. A former Guggenheim Fellow, he holds two honorary doctorates. Helpful Links and Resources "And I Was Alive," read by Wiman: https://onbeing.org/poetry/and-i-was-alive/ Christian Wiman on Conversing with Mark Labberton https://comment.org/podcasts/poetry-paradox-and-the-absence-of-god/ Episode 2: What Is Struggling to Be Born? — Fr. Tomáš Halík Episode 1: Welcome to the Understory, Where the Future Quietly Takes Root — Anne Snyder https://comment.org/podcasts/welcome-to-the-understory/ #TheUnderstory #Comment #Cardus #ChristianWiman #OsipMandelstam #Poetry #Consciousness #PublicTheology

What is a human being? One of the convictions in the seedbed of the Understory is that every age eventually reveals an answer to this question either explicitly or implicitly. This sometimes surfaces in philosophical debate. Other times, it is embedded in education. Or in politics or public policy. Or in marketing and economics. And sometimes it appears in the technologies we build. Artificial intelligence has made that timeless question unavoidable. Much of today's conversation about AI revolves around safety, regulation, bias, and transparency—understandably, we want to focus on the guardrails. But they all assume a prior question, often left unasked: What exactly are we trying to protect? At the 2026 Understory Festival, Notre Dame's Institute for Ethics and the Common Good convened a conversation worthy of the question. Moderated by Adam Kronk, three panelists led the discussion to explore not merely what AI is becoming but what we are. Meghan Sullivan, Wilsey Family College Professor of Philosophy; founding director, Institute for Ethics and the Common Good, Notre Dame Michael Sacasas, executive director, Christian Study Center of Gainesville; technology essayist (The Convivial Society) and Comment contributing editor Jeremy Cowart, photographer and artist, Nashville, TN; founder of Help-Portrait and If You're Breathing Recorded at the Virginia Mae Center during the Understory Festival, this is the question: "Can you build AI that serves human flourishing if you don't agree on what a human is?" Mentioned: Magnifica Humanitas by Pope Leo XIV; The Velveteen Rabbit by Margery Williams; The Convivial Society by L. M. Sacasas; Simone Weil; Ivan Illich; Marshall McLuhan; Humathy; the DELTA framework. Episode Highlights "Our vulnerability and frailty as human beings, and the fact that we are capable of being loved and loving other frail, vulnerable creatures ... is in fact what makes us magnificent." (Meghan Sullivan) "We're already becoming so numb to AI perfection that we no longer gasp." (Jeremy Cowart) "One of the moments where I see our humanity come alive … is when students learn that they can think." (Michael Sacasas) "We're looking ... but we're not seeing. And we're hearing, but we're not really listening." (Michael Sacasas) "The technocratic spirit does not see to behold and to contemplate, it sees first and foremost to use." (Michael Sacasas) Helpful Links and Resources Magnifica Humanitas: https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html DELTA at Notre Dame: https://ethics.nd.edu/programs/delta/ The Convivial Society: https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com Humathy: https://humathy.com Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. #TheUnderstory #AI #VelveteenRabbit #AIEthics #HumanFlourishing #MagnificaHumanitas #DELTAFramework #Attention #NotreDame #Philosophy

The artist Makoto Fujimura has spent decades exploring what he calls "broken beauty"—the observation that beauty is often born not despite the fractures each one of us experiences in this life but through them. On the opening night of the 2026 Understory festival, Fujimura reflected on what this vision of broken beauty might mean for the world at this particular moment. Rather than asking how quickly our deepest cracks can be repaired, he wondered whether we might first learn to behold them in a different light. He explores the pulverized mineral layers of the traditional Japanese practice of Nihonga; the cracked and silent Liberty Bell as an image of fragile democracy; lament as faithfulness; finding in our wounds potential sites of healing; and the call to carry tender light into the darkest places. This reflection originally appeared in our opening-night episode, "What Is Struggling to Be Born?" framed by an address from Fr. Tomáš Halík. Mentioned: The Liberty Bell; the Japanese traditional artform of "Nihonga"; Lamentations, "Great is thy faithfulness"; Ezekiel's valley of dry bones; Touch the Wounds and The Afternoon of Christianity, by Tomáš Halík Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Episode Highlights "If you want to understand something, you have to be willing to stand under it. … We have a culture that does not understand. But we over-stand. Standing over with derision and judgment." "Rather than rush to fix the crack, now is the time of beholding." About Makoto Fujimura Makoto Fujimura is a contemporary artist whose refractive "slow art" David Brooks once called a small rebellion against the quickening of time. Trained bi-culturally, he studied Nihonga at Tokyo University of the Arts, the first non-Japanese artist invited into its doctorate-level lineage program. His work is held by the Museum of Contemporary Art in Tokyo, the Huntington Library, and the Tikotin Museum, and he illuminated the Four Holy Gospels for the King James Bible's four-hundredth anniversary. A presidential appointee to the National Council on the Arts, he founded IAMCultureCare and is the author of several books, including Art+Faith: A Theology of Making and Art Is: A Journey into the Light. Learn more and follow at makotofujimura.com and instagram.com/iamfujimura. Helpful Links and Resources Makoto Fujimura's websites: makotofujimura.com and iamculturecare.com The Afternoon of Christianity: The Courage to Change, by Tomáš Halík https://a.co/d/0fUjDWg4 Touch the Wounds: On Suffering, Trust, and Transformation, by Tomáš Halík https://a.co/d/0iA47mON #TheUnderstory #MakotoFujimura #BrokenBeauty #CultureCare #FaithAndArt #Nihonga #CommentMagazine #Cardus #JapaneseArt

There's a needle many pastors have spent the last decade trying to thread. Speak to the moment and you're called partisan. Stay above it and you're called silent. Speak prophetically and you're accused of politics; refuse politics and you're accused of abandoning the prophetic. On the second day of the Understory festival, four leaders from four distinct Christian traditions sat down to consider that question. From the West Balcony of the National Cathedral, they gathered within sight of the very pulpit where, a little over a year earlier, Bishop Mariann Budde had addressed newly inaugurated President Trump in a sermon heard around the world. Back at the cathedral in the context of the Understory, Budde joined Charlie Dates of the Black Church, Walter Kim from evangelical Protestantism, and John Carr from the Catholic tradition. Long-time Comment friend David Bailey—pastor, reconciler, and founder of Arrabon—guided the conversation. Their task wasn't to settle what pastors should say about politics but to recover an older map—one that recent years have too often flattened into the politics of red versus blue. How does a preacher distinguish biblical conviction from cultural conditioning? How does the church speak to power without becoming its chaplain, or refuse quietism without becoming partisan? What emerged wasn't a debate over who had the right political posture so much as a glimpse of the church's own richness: four ecclesial imaginations, each shaped by a different history and carrying a distinct inheritance about preaching, conscience, public witness, and the vocation of the pastor. Mentioned: "A Service of Prayer for the Nation" (2025), by Rev. Mariann Edgar Budde Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. About the Guests Mariann Edgar Budde, Ninth Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington Charlie Dates, Senior Pastor of Progressive Baptist Church and Salem Baptist Church of Chicago Walter Kim, President of the National Association of Evangelicals John Carr, Founder of Georgetown's Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life David Bailey, Moderator, Founder of Arrabon Helpful Links and Resources Budde's 2025 National Cathedral homily: https://edow.org/2025/01/22/a-service-of-prayer-for-the-nation-homily/ National Association of Evangelicals: https://www.nae.org/leadership/ Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life: https://catholicsocialthought.georgetown.edu #TheUnderstory #CommentMagazine #Cardus #FaithAndPolitics #Preaching #PublicTheology #NationalCathedral

Philanthropic leader Romanita Hairston suggests that what is struggling to be born in our time is not one thing but two … and that neither can survive without the other. Beginning with artificial intelligence and ending with one of the most personal stories of the evening, she invites us to imagine a humanity no longer defined by usefulness alone. This reflection originally appeared in our episode, What Is Struggling to Be Born?, framed by an address from Fr. Tomáš Halík, and recorded at the National Cathedral on the Understory's opening night. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you get your podcasts. Episode Highlights "Somewhere, quietly, we have come to believe that cognition does not define what we do, it defines who we are and the value of those around us." "What is struggling to be born is twins ... A new humanity and a new kind of institutional life. They cannot survive apart." "A humanity not defined by physical strength or cognitive output, but constituted by love-infused belonging. Beloved before useful." "Trustworthy because institutions remember they exist for persons, not the other way around." "We have not yet learned how to be valuable apart from being useful." About Romanita Hairston Romanita Hairston is chief executive officer of the M.J. Murdock Charitable Trust, a private foundation serving the Pacific Northwest since 1975. An accomplished team builder, convener, and leader, Romanita draws on more than two decades of experience in the nonprofit (World Vision), for profit (Microsoft), philanthropic (Murdock Trust), and board service (Global Women, India Partners, Urban Alliance, Urban Impact, Impact Latin America) sectors to help steward the mission of the foundation. She champions bridge building leadership, effective pluralism, focused philanthropy, and faith-informed leadership that strengthens rather than divides. A graduate of the University of Washington, Romanita earned her MBA from Eastern University. Helpful Links and Resources Full episode: "What Is Struggling to Be Born?" https://comment.org/podcasts/what-is-struggling-to-be-born/ Romanita Hairston: https://romanitahairston.com Murdock Trust: https://murdocktrust.org/our-people Anne Snyder's remarks the same night: https://comment.org/podcasts/welcome-to-the-understory/ #TheUnderstory #Comment #Cardus #RomanitaHairston #MurdockTrust #HumanDignity #AI #Work #PublicTheology

Luke Burgis and Angela Duckworth are watching the same traffic move in opposite directions, and this hour is the first time they've worked it out in the same room. Burgis, founder of the Cluny Institute, author of Wanting, and a teacher at Catholic University's Ciocca Center, has spent years tracing how mimetic desire pulls us into borrowed identities. How much of what we take to be our own wanting was simply handed to us by someone we were watching. Duckworth, the University of Pennsylvania psychologist who wrote the bestselling book Grit, comes at it from the other side: how the people, places, and situations around us draw out capacities we didn't know were there, or quietly bury them. Between them they take up the difference between a solid self and a pseudo self; what the parable of the lost sheep understands about individuation that our therapeutic vocabulary does not; the "hard thing rule" for raising children who can grit and quit well; and whether any of our institutions still think in terms of formation at all ... or have simply outsourced it and hoped for the best. Recorded live at Comment's inaugural Understory festival, with introductory reflections from editor in chief Anne Snyder. Mentioned: René Girard on mimetic desire; Martin Seligman and positive psychology; The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion, by Luke Burgis; Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance, by Angela Duckworth; Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, by Angela Duckworth; Wanting: The Power of Mimetic Desire in Everyday Life, by Luke Burgis; Unrepeatable: Cultivating the Unique Calling of Every Person, by Luke Burgis and Joshua Miller; The Velveteen Rabbit, by Margery Williams; Babette's Feast, by Isak Dinesen; Scottish poet and writer Charles Mackay. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected] The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Episode Highlights "How do you become real? You commune with what is real." "That search for communion is the most important thing I think we're lacking in the world today." "We're not addicted to our phones—we're addicted to the people inside of the phones." "Nobody gets to choose your hard thing but you." "It's a thousand little moments that happen in the sacred private space between a soul and God." About Luke Burgis Luke Burgis is a serial entrepreneur turned author and scholar whose work sits at the intersection of philosophy, psychology, and practical wisdom. He is founder and director of the Cluny Institute and an Assistant Clinical Professor of Business and Entrepreneur-in-Residence at the Catholic University of America's Ciocca Center, where he studies the invisible forces that shape human behavior. His first book, "Wanting: The Power of Mimetic Desire in Everyday Life," introduced René Girard's thought to a public audience; his latest book, "The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion," is a Next Big Idea Club Must-Read. About Angela Duckworth Angela Duckworth is the Rosa Lee and Egbert Chang Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, faculty co-director of the Penn-Wharton Behavior Change for Good Initiative, and a 2013 MacArthur Fellow. Before her research career she taught math and science in public schools in New York City, San Francisco, and Philadelphia, and co-founded Character Lab, a nonprofit advancing the science of character development. Her 2016 book "Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance" was a number-one New York Times bestseller; her forthcoming book is "Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best." #UnderstoryFestival #CommentMagazine #LukeBurgis #AngelaDuckworth #CharacterFormation #MimeticDesire #Identity #Belonging #Grit #Self #ChristianHumanism

What does it take to rehumanize our common life in a moment of cultural fragility, institutional collapse, and crisis of trust? Recorded at the Washington National Cathedral for Comment magazine's inaugural Understory Festival, this roundtable asks how culture, beauty, and faith might rehumanize a fractured public life. Mark Labberton is joined by Comment editor-in-chief Anne Snyder, The Sacred host Elizabeth Oldfield, Washington Post columnist Shadi Hamid, and Cardus co-founder Ray Pennings—the hosts of the growing Comment Podcast Network—around a wonderfully simple question: What just happened here? This conversation first appeared on Conversing with Mark Labberton, cross-posted here to The Understory feed. Special thanks to Unconditional Media for making this video podcast recording possible during our 2026 Understory festival. Mentioned: Comment Podcast Network; "The Understory," by Lore Ferguson Wilbert; Romans 8; Madeleine Albright; Ben Sasse; Luke Bretherton. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe to The Understory wherever you get your podcasts: comment.org/podcasts. Episode Highlights "It is actually possible to have deep roots and wide open arms."—Anne Snyder "Naturally as a Muslim, I don't agree with Christianity's truth claims, but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate the beauty of Christianity."—Shadi Hamid "The word that's been coming to me this whole festival is and."—Elizabeth Oldfield "Politics is downstream from culture."—Ray Pennings "We're all made to worship, it's just a question of what we worship."—Shadi Hamid About Elizabeth Oldfield Elizabeth Oldfield hosts The Sacred, the podcast she launched in 2017, and is the former director and now senior fellow of Theos, the UK think tank on religion and society. She is the author of Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times (Brazos, 2024) and a contributing editor at Comment. Her work appears across the BBC, the Financial Times, and UnHerd, and she lives in an intentional community in South London. Learn more and follow at elizabetholdfield.com and linktr.ee/sacredpodcast. About Shadi Hamid Shadi Hamid is a columnist at The Washington Post, where he writes on culture, religion, and foreign policy, and a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding. His newest book is The Case for American Power (Simon & Schuster, 2025), following The Problem of Democracy and Islamic Exceptionalism. He co-founded Wisdom of Crowds and co-hosts Zealots at the Gate for Comment. Learn more and follow at washingtonpost.com/people/shadi-hamid. About Ray Pennings Ray Pennings co-founded Cardus in 2000 and serves as its executive vice president and as Comment's publisher. A longtime voice in Canadian public policy and industrial relations, he was lead author of the Cardus report Death is Natural: Reframing the End-of-Life Conversation in Canada. He holds a history degree from McMaster University and an MA in religion from Puritan Theological Seminary. Learn more and follow at cardus.ca. About Anne Snyder Anne Snyder is editor-in-chief of Comment, published by Cardus, and convener of the Understory Festival. She hosts The Whole Person Revolution podcast and is the author of The Fabric of Character. Learn more and follow at comment.org. Helpful Links and Resources The Understory Festival: https://comment.org/festival/ Comment magazine: https://comment.org Cardus: https://www.cardus.ca The Understory, by Lore Ferguson Wilbert: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1587435705 Elizabeth Oldfield, Fully Alive: https://www.elizabetholdfield.com The Sacred podcast: https://linktr.ee/sacredpodcast Zealots at the Gate: https://comment.org/podcasts/zealots-at-the-gate/ Shadi Hamid, The Case for American Power: https://a.co/d/0fEuFUUS #UnderstoryFestival #Comment #Cardus #ChristianHumanism #PublicTheology #Pluralism #ShadiHamid #MarkLabberton #ElizabethOldfield #AnneSnyder #Hope

Is there a word from the Lord for us today? Pastor Charlie Dates closes the Understory festival with a sermon that speaks to a weary age hungry for both truth and hope. Introduced by Anne Snyder and preceded by a live musical offering from Grammy-winning gospel musician Kevin Bond, this final session asks the question beneath the entire gathering: Who is Christ for us today? Mentioned: Breaking Ground (Comment) Who Is Christ for Us Today?, asked by Dietrich Bonhoeffer Frederick Douglass Ain't I a Woman?, by Sojourner Truth Raphael Warnock Matthew 22:42: "What think ye of Christ? Whose son is he?" Gospel of Matthew, King James Version The dual paternity of the Messiah: Son of David, Son of God Psalm 110 Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Episode Highlights "The identity of Jesus Christ confronts our theological arrogance and silences our moral malice." "Christ is the sum total of every cure for what ails the human condition." "Time cannot age Him, and ages do not time Him." "He died till death died. Yes. He died till sin apologized." "He never preached a funeral because the dead always got up after he started talking." About Charlie Dates Charlie Dates is the senior pastor of both Salem Baptist Church and Progressive Baptist Church of Chicago, two of the most storied Black congregations in the nation. In 2011, at thirty, he became the youngest senior pastor in Progressive's history; in 2023 he succeeded James Meeks at Salem. A graduate of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, he holds an MDiv and a PhD in historical theology from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, where his research centered on the burden and brilliance of Black preaching. He is an affiliate professor at Baylor's Truett Seminary and Wheaton College, a contributor to Letters to a Birmingham Jail, and author of the forthcoming What Hath Justice to Do with Righteousness? Helpful Links and Resources The Understory Festival: https://comment.org/understory/ Comment magazine: https://comment.org Cardus: https://www.cardus.ca Charlie Dates: https://www.preachingdates.com #TheUnderstory #CommentMagazine #Cardus #CharlieDates #WhoIsChristForUsToday #BlackPreaching #ChristianHumanism #AnneSnyder #Christology

Do our institutions need repair—or replacement? In one of the festival's most anticipated conversations, longtime friends and conservative public intellectuals David Brooks and Ross Douthat debate whether our moment calls for rebuilding existing institutions or re-founding them altogether. Introduced by Christine Emba and reflected upon by Mark Labberton. Mentioned: Albert O. Hirschman Frederick Buechner American Politics: The Promise of Disharmony, by Samuel P. Huntington James Baldwin Gregory of Nyssa and the Song of Songs "Fast Car," by Tracy Chapman The papal encyclical Magnifica Humanitas Comment's Manifesto Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Episode Highlights "We look through the world through mud-colored lenses." (Brooks) "Culture change happens more by example than by argument, via admiration more than by persuasion." (Brooks) "Romanticism is an insurrection of the whole person against the tyranny of the part." (Brooks) "In this period, it's easier to coast, to slide, and often to despair." (Douthat) "What is the new university, and why isn't Silicon Valley money funding it?" (Douthat) About David Brooks David Brooks is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the inaugural senior presidential fellow at Yale's Jackson School of Global Affairs, after twenty-two years as a New York Times columnist. He wrote The Second Mountain and How to Know a Person. About Ross Douthat Ross Douthat is a New York Times Opinion columnist and hosts the podcast Interesting Times. A fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, he wrote The Decadent Society and Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious, and lives in New Haven, Connecticut. Helpful Links and Resources Comment's manifesto: comment.org/manifesto/ The Understory Festival: comment.org/understory/ Comment magazine: comment.org #TheUnderstory #CommentMagazine #DavidBrooks #RossDouthat #ChristianHumanism #CulturalRenewal #FaithAndPublicLife #BuildOrRefound

What happens when people no longer feel capable of shaping the world around them? Oxford theologian Luke Bretherton argues that beneath our political and cultural turmoil lie twin crises of agency and institutional trust. Drawing on the Christian humanist tradition, he proposes a recovery of the human person rooted not in autonomy or power but in participation, responsibility, and the image of Christ. Before Luke took the stage, we watched a short film titled What Does It Mean to Be Human? created by our friends at ChristianStory—linked in the show notes. It helped frame the conversation you're about to hear. Mentioned: What Is a Human? (from ChristianStory) Christ and the Common Life, by Luke Bretherton A Primer in Christian Ethics, by Luke Bretherton Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. The Understory is a production of Comment (comment.org), published by Cardus (cardus.ca). Hosted by Anne Snyder. Edited by Allie Crummy. Produced by Tiffany Thompson and Evan Rosa. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Episode Highlights "Christian humanism is not a theory. Rather, it's a therapy for recovering our humanity in and through Christ." "Jesus is remade into a tribal God, and love of neighbor is labeled toxic empathy." "Democracy in this sense is fundamentally a practice of neighboring." "People feel acted upon by forces they can neither understand nor resist." "We cannot live by money and technology alone." About Luke Bretherton Luke Bretherton is the Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at the University of Oxford and director of the McDonald Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Life. Before Oxford he was the Robert E. Cushman Distinguished Professor of Moral and Political Theology at Duke University. His books include Christ and the Common Life (2019), A Primer in Christian Ethics (2023), and What Is Political Theology? (2025), and he hosts the Listen, Organize, Act! podcast (Oxford Faculty of Theology and Religion). Learn more and follow at theology.ox.ac.uk/people/rev-canon-professor-luke-bretherton Helpful Links and Resources Luke Bretherton at Oxford: theology.ox.ac.uk/people/rev-canon-professor-luke-bretherton The Understory, from Comment: comment.org/issues/the-understory/ #ChristianHumanism #LukeBretherton #TheUnderstory #CommentMagazine #ImagoDei #PoliticalTheology