Advertise on podcast: Brass Tacks Hard Facts Podcast

On the Brass Tacks Hard Facts podcast, Chris Martin and Jerry Herbst interview Chief Dave McGrail about when to stretch from the rig versus using the standpipe. McGrail argues “mid-rise” lacks a consistent definition and urges firefighters to focus on whether a building is above or below 75 feet and whether they trust its systems, always building a Plan B. He recommends stretching from the pumper for below-grade, first-floor, and second-floor fires, and cautions against relying on dry manual standpipes in parking garages and sports venues due to delays and system failures. He stresses pairing engine companies, doing reconnaissance before committing to a stretch, and taking every opportunity to practice on automatic alarms. McGrail discusses reflex time (about one minute per floor), weapon selection and hose size (standpipes designed for 2½-inch), proper pressurization with in-line gauges, hooking up from the floor below, and fully stretching hose before charging. Chief Dave McGrail Bio:  Dave McGrail has been apart of the fires service for over 40 years, having served with the Aurora, CO Fire Department from 1982 - 1987, and the Denver Fire Department (DFD) from 1987 - 2023. Dave was assigned to some of the busiest fire companies and fire districts within the DFD. From Nozzleman to Incident Commander, Dave responded to and operated at thousands of fires and emergency incidents, including high-rise fires, plane crashes, technical rescues, and all of the other daily incidents that occur in a big city. Dave earned fifteen meritorious commendations for his actions at various incidents on the DFD. Dave retired from the DFD in 2023, but continues to provide educational programs and hands on training to firefighters all across the American Fire Service, and Internationally. Dave is the author of the popular text book “Firefighting Operations in High-Rise and Standpipe Equipped Buildings”, published by Pennwell, Fire Engineering Books, 2007. Dave has earned several College Degrees, including two Associate of Applied Science Degrees in Fire Science Technology, two Bachelor of Science Degrees, one in Human Resource Management, and one in Fire Service / Public Administration.   Send us Fan Mail

Chris Martin and Jerry Herbst discuss the “state of flow” in 2026, reflecting on how modern attack packages evolved from earlier low-pressure, high-flow concepts that have existed for decades. They recount early experiences with prototype hose/nozzles, the fire service’s pendulum swings in equipment trends, and persistent issues like over-pumping and unchanged pump PDPs despite moving to lower pressures. Using old Elkhart Brass catalogs from 1992 and 1932, they show many “new” ideas are cyclical and historically familiar. They emphasize that hose, nozzle, and pump settings must work together, that departments must flow test and avoid cut-and-paste solutions from social media, and that purchasing decisions require data, committee input, and long-term commitment. They argue for an education-first approach over sales hype, and close by stressing that an effective attack package must overcome heat release rate and be manageable by one firefighter, not just the best operator. Chris Martin Bio: Chris continues a three-generation family tradition in the fire service, following in the footsteps of his stepfather and grandfather. He began his own fire service career in 1996 and is a certified Indiana State Fire Instructor II/III. Chris also served as a student firefighter at the University of Notre Dame, where he earned a Bachelor of Business Administration degree in Marketing. Chris holds the rank of Engineer and serves as a Field Training Officer with Clay Fire Territory in South Bend, Indiana. During his career with Clay, he has served in positions ranging from Firefighter to Captain. Chris joined Elkhart Brass in 2000 and has held a variety of roles within the organization, including Regional Sales Manager for both domestic and international markets and Municipal Product Manager. His experience has included new product development, technical education and training, and extensive interaction with firefighters, distributors, and industry partners to ensure the voice of the customer is represented in product development and marketing. Today, Chris serves as Vice President of Marketing, leading marketing efforts across Elkhart Brass, Fire Research Corp., FoamPro, and R•O•M. His responsibilities include brand strategy, new product marketing, education and training, sales enablement, and product launch support.  Jerry Herbst Bio: Jerry entered the Fire Service in 1979. Through a combination of paid and volunteer experience he remains an active firefighter/engineer on his volunteer FD. He has been with Elkhart Brass since 2006 and is Director of Municipal Markets and Training for Elkhart Brass. He travels Worldwide in support of Elkhart’s mission providing subject matter expertise on the evaluation, development and implementation of equipment solutions for effective fire attack solutions. Jerry has been published and referenced in Industry leading media and is active in instruction and support at many Hands-on Training events. Send us Fan Mail