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There is no doubt that the promotional products industry has changed. The question is, have you? There was a period of time when getting print and promotional product clients was a lot easier. People loved and appreciated your work. They answered and returned your phone calls. They placed orders proactively. Sometimes they even referred enough new clients that your customer base practically grew all by itself. Sounds like a fantasy! But does that still happen? It can. But nowadays? Not so much… Today, too many people in our industry are fighting against reality. They’re pounding away on activities that used to work, but don’t work anymore. Instead of changing their actions, they blame the prospects, or the marketing method, or the economy, or the tariffs. You’ll see them complaining in industry groups, saying things like “People aren’t answering their phones.” “Social media’s a waste of time.” “No one’s returning phone calls.” “Networking events are worthless.” “This economy stinks!” And while people may be experiencing those things, the people who are making money in our industry right now are not doing any of that. They know that all the whining, blame-shifting and scapegoating is not going to fix problems that are partially caused, at least,  by taking wrong or ineffective actions that no longer work. So instead, they’re adapting their approach, refocusing their efforts, eliminating ineffective tactics, and engaging in the tested, proven, strategic methods that work right now. You know, the gap between where you are right now and where you want to be is not going to magically fill itself. And you can’t count on the actions that used to fill those gaps to continue to do so in the future. Because they won’t. They can’t. It is literally impossible. Of course, very few motivated people will sit around willingly and do nothing, as the things that used to work for them continue to lose their effectiveness. But very often, they just double down and try to do more of it with brute force effort. Putting in more time, more energy, making more calls, and overcoming more objections, while continuing to fall behind. It’s exhausting to watch, and it’s even more exhausting if you have to do it! So why doesn’t that work? Because taking ineffective actions more aggressively does not create the results you want. Yes, in business, particularly when you’re facing challenges, speed of implementation is critical. But that only works when you’re taking the right actions in the right order. Doing the wrong things faster won’t get you to your goal. It’s like speeding off in a race car that’s going in the wrong direction. So while TYPICAL businesses try to fix the problem by running faster, working longer, pushing harder, and sacrificing more — to try to make the hamster wheel turn faster, and faster, and faster, while still getting them nowhere — smart, focused business owners are changing their approach to suit the times. You probably already know that if your business is struggling, and you don’t change your approach, your results cannot possibly change. It’s like Einstein’s definition of insanity, doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result. And since so much has changed in such a short period of time, you can’t even expect the things that DID work well — even a few months ago — to work well now. So what do you do? Well, it’s likely that if you knew what changes to make — if you knew exactly what to do, and exactly how to fix it — you would have done it by now, right? Because, who wouldn’t? What I’m talking about today is not for the majority of typical business owners who are just going to sit it out, wait it out, or worse yet, whine it out on social media. It’s also not for average performers who take average actions to create average results. That’s going to happen by default. When things get tough, average sales inevitably decline. Those of us who have been through these cycles before? We know the drill. You can read all about it in the industry publications when it’s in danger of happening, when it starts to happen, as it’s happening, and after it happened. Then, at that point, the articles will turn to discussions about the recovery. “Here’s what average distributors are doing right now to get back to their average results!” But what if you could build it out, max it out, and scale it out now, instead of having to ride it out to the bottom, just so you can slug it out to get back to where you were before? If you’ve been in the industry for a while, it’s very likely that your work has gotten better. Your expertise has increased. You have clients who love you, because the results you create are exceptional. If that’s the case, then why settle for lower sales, fewer clients, and “riding it out” when you don’t have to? Right now, I’m working with a small group of industry professionals who are dedicated to growing, building, and scaling their businesses NOW, so they’ll be light-years ahead of the typical, average businesses who are content to struggle and lose business while they “wait and see.” So if you’re ready to make the shift, to get more of your ideal clients faster and easier right now, go to TopSecrets.com/shift and download a copy of my free pdf that explains how we can help you. That’s TopSecrets.com/shift. Are You Ready to Address the Changes in Our Industry? If so, check out the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors grow: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional products sales, learn how we can help. Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here. Ready to Hire Salespeople? If you want to bring in others to grow your promo sales, click here. Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry. Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you’re serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the very best prospects in your market, check out this page.

To get more sales without relying on cold calls, we don’t want to turn the alternatives into something as clumsy and uncomfortable as a typical cold call. Right? Because a lot of times they are. They’re clumsy and they’re awkward and they’re not comfortable. We don’t want to just come up with another way to be that. The idea of looking for these alternatives is to say, “okay, how can I make this experience better for the person that I am trying to initiate contact with?” David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing alternatives to cold calling. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: I am so glad to be here. Thank you. Even the word sometimes, “cold calling.” I get the shivers, not just cause it’s cold, because I think that this is probably one of the most dreaded parts of the sales process, but in many industries, Absolutely necessary. And so how can you make it easier to get more sales? How can you make it better? And what happens if you don’t? David: Yeah, definitely gives a lot of people the chills. And the reason that I thought it would be good for us even to talk about alternatives is that there are a lot of people who have been trained that prospecting equals cold calling. Or cold calling equals prospecting. I need to do prospecting. I need to pick up the phone. I need to call people. I need to get more sales. Some people are actually trained that way. And some sales managers will evaluate people on how many cold calls they’ve made in a day. That’s part of people’s jobs description. If that’s part of your job description I’m not saying don’t do that, right? If that’s your job description, you have to do it. However, for people who have a little more flexibility in terms of the way that they initiate contact with a new prospect, there are alternatives to cold calling. You don’t necessarily have to pick up the phone. And so, there are two aspects of this. One is the first question that you just asked about, okay, now what can we do to get more sales and make cold calling better? Considering the Alternatives And there are certainly things that we can do there in terms of thinking about how we’re going to approach them, what we’re going to say, how we’re going to lead into the conversation, and all that sort of thing. But for a lot of people, a better question might be what could I do to sort of grease the shoot or grease the wheels so that when I pick up the phone and call someone, the results are a lot better. Yeah, and I think that’s so important because you know, you would regret or not want to do cold calling less if you’re getting a better result. And if, when people pick up the phone, they’re not hostile towards you, or they’re not indifferent to you, because you’ve done some things in advance. So that it’s not so cold that I don’t know what you would call it. Jay: Would you call it warm calling or something like that? Warmer Alternatives to Cold Calling David: It’s certainly a lot warmer if you’ve had contact with them in advance. Like if you met somebody at a networking function, you exchange business cards or whatever, and then you picked up the phone and called that person. I wouldn’t view that as a cold call because you’ve already met them. If you’ve got prospects that you’ve interacted with previously, then if you call them, yeah, that’s not really a cold call. So I don’t know, you can certainly call it a warm call. You can just call it a call. If I were to pick up the phone and call you, I’m going to give Jay a call. It’s not cold, because we know each other. So, the question becomes, how can we get to know people better, get them to know us better, so that when we do have contact with them, it doesn’t feel as cold. Even now, things like social media, if you and I connected on social media, if you commented on a post of mine, or I commented on a post of yours, if we exchanged messages back and forth through Facebook or through LinkedIn, we’ve had communications that way. At that point, if we had a telephone conversation, it will be a lot less cold. Jay: Yeah, I can certainly understand. And I see this a lot. Like I will be interested in looking around at something and I will see a social media post. I’m much more inclined to ask a question. You know, via social media or via a chat or something else before I pick up the call as a customer. And that’s going to open up those doors and get more sales, right? For you to be able to now, when we do finally talk face to face or voice to voice, it’s going to be a totally different experience, right? A Different Experience David: It really should be. Yes. And this kind of goes back to what we were talking about in a previous podcast, when people are not comfortable with these other methods of reaching out to people, it really limits their ability to communicate. Because, as you said, there are some people you get a phone call, I don’t necessarily want to call back. Maybe I’ll message you, or maybe I’ll send you something on Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever. And, at that point, if I’m, “No, I’m going to talk to you on the phone!” If you don’t want that to happen, it’s absolutely not happening. So I think there is a level of flexibility that salespeople need to start to adopt if they want to be able to reach the people that they need to reach in a way that people are willing to be reached. Jay: Yeah, I’m just curious as people go through your program, what are some of the ideas that come up when it comes to alternatives to cold calling or making at least the process easier or greasing the chute as you said to get more sales? David: Yeah. Greasing the shoot, exactly. Jay: Yeah. Greasing the Chute David: Well, there are a lot of different things that can be done. I mean, even things like direct mail. You could send something in the mail and then if you were to call and say, “Hey, did you get the thing I sent you in the mail?” Now, at that point, you at least have something to point to, to indicate I’m not just calling you out of the blue. Right? A lot of the clients that I work with operate in the print and promotional products industry, and for them to send out some sort of self-promotion item, in the mail, with a cover letter, is a great way to establish rapport and get more sales. It also creates that sort of gift of obligation. So when they get it, they feel like, “oh, somebody sent me something.” And then when you contact that person, you can say, “Hey, did you get the item I sent you?” Whatever that item is. And from that standpoint, they’re probably going to be more likely to take the call, if they have a conscience, than they would be to take a cold call from somebody that never sent them anything or that they had never heard from previously. Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve gotten a number of emails from people who have been asking about either being on my podcast or having me appear on their podcast. And a lot of it is just people who are writing on behalf of somebody else. And “Hey, I think so-and-so would be a great guest for your podcast.” And from what they’ve written, I can tell they’ve never listened to the podcast. They have no idea what we do here. Pay Attention to Get Attention And so I just ignore that sort of thing. Recently, there was a guy who was sending me something and I thought it was one of those, but he was actually asking me to be on his podcast, and he paid attention enough to what it is that we do that he said, “Hey, I’d like if you could talk about this particular topic.” It was about market domination, which is something that I talk about. So at that point, it’s like, okay, well that makes sense. Here’s somebody who at least made some sort of effort to understand what I’m all about before reaching out and either asking for a favor or whatever. So I think that’s an interesting approach too. Because in a sense, what he did was a cold email. But by simply putting in a little bit of effort to demonstrate that he had some idea of who I am and what I’m all about, it made me far more likely to respond where other people just wouldn’t have gotten a response at all. Jay: Yeah, I, love this idea. Doing a little bit of research, a little bit of homework. And when you reach out to them even saying, “Hey, I saw a particular podcast,” or “I saw a particular post,” or “I saw this story about you.” Maybe playing to their ego a little bit or at least letting them know that you have a genuine interest because you’ve noticed something about them instead of, “I just want to talk to you so that I can sell my product. So pick up the phone, dang it!” You know? Spamming People on Social Media David: Yeah. And there’s a lot of that happening on Facebook right now. Where people will send you messages, trying to establish a conversation out of nowhere. And they’ll say, “what do you do?” And they’ll send that via Messenger. And so they might have already initiated a friend request. You accept the friend request. And they say, what do you do? And at that point, I’m like, “well, did you look? You know, you’ve requested to friend me. I friended you. Did you look at the profile? Did you look into anything that I do at all? You know, it’s just like, “No, I’m connecting with you so I can send you this message. So I can try to see if I can sell you something.” And it just doesn’t create a great vibe. And so I think part of this idea, when we’re looking for alternatives to cold calls, we don’t want to turn the alternatives into something as clumsy and uncomfortable as a typical cold call. Right? Because a lot of times they are. They’re clumsy and they’re awkward and they’re not comfortable. We don’t want to just come up with another way to be that. The idea of looking for these alternat

If you need to outperform your competition, you want to look at who is the primary competition and what are their advantages? In what areas are they outperforming me? Are they outperforming me in terms of just price? If that’s what it is. And a lot of times that’s what people are up against in the online market. The online sellers are able to sell for less. And at that point you have to say, “okay, is that something I even want to try to compete with?” Or am I more interested in finding the types of clients who understand and appreciate the value that I bring to the table. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, cohost Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing the importance of outperforming your competition. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: So good to be here again, David and this topic is very interesting to me. You know, I’ve been in small business. I know a lot of business owners and I got to tell you, oftentimes you’re so caught up in, just generating sales that what the competition is doing, how much they’re doing. Are you competing with the competition? A lot of times, those thoughts don’t come up because there’s just no time for that. And so I’m wondering what the consequences are if I’m not even thinking about my competition. David: Well, if you’re doing great and you’re making the money you need to make, maybe you don’t have to think about your competition at all. Maybe you’re the one that everybody is trying to come after. And when we think about that, it’s not just about the fact that, okay, well, maybe somebody else is outperforming me. But a lot of people, if they’ve been in a market for a particularly long time and they’ve been selling to people who have other options, they’ll find out who their competitors are. Because they’ll say, “oh, I’m already doing business with somebody.” And you ask who it is and they give you a name or they give you a company name. And you’re like, okay, I’ve heard that name once now. And then you talk to somebody else and now I’ve heard another name and now I’ve heard another name. So you have three different names. Then you go to somebody else. And now you hear two for this one. Then you hear three for this one. And then four for this one. You say, “okay, this person has a lot of traction in this market.” So you start to recognize them as competition. Also, as things have evolved online, there are now online competitors that compete with local businesses left and right. And so there are a lot of people who think in terms of the online competition. How can I compete with that? So, when we talk about the importance of outperforming your competition, it’s not because, “well, I’ve got to win at all costs,” and all that sort of thing. But if you are in business for yourself and you are counting on your sales and your salary to be able to put food on your table. And if your competition is sometimes interfering with that, then the necessity of outperforming your competition becomes very clear. You don’t want to run into a situation where somebody says, “yes, I’m already dealing with this person.” You want that person to go in there and they say, “no, I’m already dealing with you,” right? Jay: Mm-hmm David: You want to be the person who already has that sort of foothold, that sort of traction in a market. So outperforming the competition starts with saying, “okay, who’s doing a pretty good job in this market?” And is there somebody that I think is actually doing a better job in this market? Or is there somebody who is doing a job that the marketplace thinks is better? Right? Because you may know that you are already better than this competitor they mentioned. And nothing can be more frustrating sometimes for people, when you go into a situation, they say, “oh, I’m doing business with that person.” And you want to say, “oh, they’re awful. I can’t believe you’re doing that!” But of course you don’t say that. But when you recognize that you’re already better, but other people don’t have that same perception, you say, “okay, well, how am I going to fix that? How am I going to change that?” Because it’s not just about outperforming the competition, it’s about letting the market know and understand and talk about how you outperform the competition. Jay: Well, it’s interesting. So first I have to assess kind of where they’re at and where I compare to them and then create kind of a battle plan to be able to go up against them and demonstrate to my potential customers that when we talk about outperform, we’re talking about quality, we’re talking maybe about cost, customer service. I mean, there’s all kinds of different ways that “outperform” can be, right? That it can indicate. David: Yeah. And that is a really beautiful distinction that you just drew there. Because for some people, if their primary buying criteria is price and somebody else is charging less than you are, you might not want to outperform that particular person. Because, you know, as we often say, “the rush to zero margin is not a race I want to win.” You don’t want to put yourself in a situation where you’re cutting price and you make the sale and you end up regretting it because you’re not making enough money to justify the time that you’re putting in. So there’s certainly that aspect of it. But when we think in terms of outperforming the competition, it’s not even the kind of thing that you need to drive yourself crazy over. It’s not the kind of thing that I suggest that you really think about and focus on and get worried about. If it’s an issue for you, you want to look at who is the primary competition and what are their advantages? In what areas are they outperforming me? Are they outperforming me in terms of just price? If that’s what it is. And a lot of times that’s what people are up against in the online market. The online sellers are able to sell for less. And at that point you have to say, “okay, is that something I even want to try to compete with?” Or am I more interested in finding the types of clients who understand and appreciate the value that I bring to the table and who are more interested in working with someone like me, who may be willing to pay a little more from me because they know I’m going to deliver better and more consistently. And I’m going to be available, and all those sorts of things. So it’s almost like the sliders on a control board or, you know, volume controls and that sort of thing where it’s like, “okay, how’s the service?” Am I pushing the service up or down? Am I pushing the pricing up or down and looking at all the different options there and saying, “where do I want to excel? Where do I want to outperform my competition? Where do I want to be higher?” And price may very well not be one of them. For a lot of us, price is not going to be the one we want to do. We don’t want to become the Walmart of our industries. Instead we need to say, “okay, how does my service compare? Am I more accessible? Do I have more and better options available? Am I more reliable in terms of getting stuff to people?” We did a podcast recently with one of my clients who was talking about the fact that she tells people who say they’re doing business with someone else that ” if you’re ever in a pinch, give me a call.” And she gave this example of somebody who gave her a call because, and this was like a few days after she was told that they did business with someone else. She said, well, if you’re ever in a pinch, give me a call. Couple days later, she got a call and they said, Hey, the people that I use, can’t get it for me. Can you do this? And she was able to do it. And she didn’t even have to break a sweat doing it. It wasn’t like it was an impossible deadline and she pulled it off. It was like, yeah, this is something that she was capable of doing. It was already in her wheelhouse. And she was able to accomplish that and win the client. So once she does that, she becomes that go-to person, because they’d rather deal with the person who can do it for them than be the one who tells ’em they can’t and then they have to go find somebody else. Jay: Yeah. I think that’s such a good point. Part of the key though, is identifying where it is that you want to compete. And you’ve talked about this David: mm-hmm Jay: Do you want to compete on price? Do you want to excel in one way? I think it’s fascinating. You know, I’ve seen studies and research where sometimes when people just pay more for something, they feel like they got a better product, even though it’s the same level of service. Right? So paying a premium can actually be a way to outperform your competition, right? As long as you live up to that. David: Right. It’s an advantage for a certain segment of the market. I remember marketing legend, Dan Kennedy was talking about the fact that in every market, there’s one group of people who will always stay at, you know, the Plaza, you know, the, the highest end hotel. And there’s another group of people that will always stay at the Motel Six. They’ll always stay at the cheapest option. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle. You know, they’ll stay at someplace that is pretty nice. Probably more expensive than a Motel Six. And everybody could stay at Motel Six if it was all about price, right? Same thing with cars. If we’re all about price, everybody would buy the cheapest car. But people don’t. And very often people will spend more money because they feel that they’re getting a better experience. That they’re getting somebody who’s more knowledgeable or more responsive or just nicer to deal with. Or they want to deal with a human instead of a keyboard. They don’t want to be a do it yourselfer. There are lots of reasons that pe

Stay focused. It’s easy to say, but harder to do. Anybody who’s been in sales has probably been in a situation where you’ve been in a room with someone and you’re looking at them and having a conversation with them. But they’re looking around the room. They’re looking at things. People are buzzing them on the phone. They’re like, “excuse me.” They’re taking the call and you’re sitting there thinking, “why am I here? Why am I doing this?” So other people maintaining focus (or not) will give you a really good idea of where you stand with them. David: Hello, and welcome to the podcast. We are back once again. Jay McFarland, and I will discuss how to stay focused in your day. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: It’s so good to be here, David. And I know that focus is something that everybody’s working on. One of the reasons I know this is all of the technology companies are building focus tools into their devices. We must want this because I can now tell my phone, no I’m focused on this and it gives me different screens for that particular time so that I can stay focused in on this. So we must all want to be able to focus better. And the question is, how do we achieve that? David: Yeah. Especially when there are other technology companies that are trying to get you to stay focused on them. Right? You gave a great example. I noticed that too, on my phone, there’s the new focus button. And I like that idea, but in the meantime, nearly every social media platform is designed to steal your focus, to derail you from what it is that you wanted to do today in favor of what they would like to have you do today, which is to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, and then scroll some more. So we do have technology that is working for us, and we have technology that is working against us. But last time when we were talking about the idea of building proactively, I think these things tie together. As we’re building proactively, we recognize that it does require us to stay focused day-to-day. And so in order to do that, we have to say, okay, how are we going to make it happen? Particularly with all sorts of forces, potentially conspiring against us. Jay: Yeah. I love that point, that on the one hand tech is trying to help us stay focused, and then everything else in the world, I’m like, “squirrel!” You know, squirrel there’s something new and it’s not just social media who’s trying to distract you. It’s the employees who want your time, the customers who call up because they don’t know your schedule. They just know they have a question, right? So they’re calling you. So how do you go about building some semblance of focus throughout your day with all of these distractions that are coming in constantly? David: Well, from my standpoint, I think we need to decide at the beginning of the day, as early as possible, what really needs to happen today? Because that’ll help us to determine where our focus needs to be. What is it that actually has to get done? What has to happen? What do you have to do versus what do other people in your organization have to do? So if you own the organization, you’re going to have to determine what you’re doing and what they need to stay focused on. And how are you going to avoid distraction? Lots of people have, or had, open door policies when people were working together. Do I have my door open? Do I have my door closed? I liked the idea of having an open-door policy. So for many years in my business, I did. But unfortunately, that sometimes programs people to think, okay, door’s open! I’m constantly available. So you really need to balance that and make determinations as far as how much of your time during a given day is going to be dedicated to focus time. The work that you have to get done in a specific time frame, in a specific way, without distraction. And then adapt or create an environment that allows you to stay focused. Jay: Yeah. I have a funny story. I went to a company, it was a brand new company. They just built this beautiful building. And I went to the CEO and his desk was right out in the middle of everybody else’s. David: Wow. Jay: No cubicle walls, nothing. There’s the CEO’s desk, right? And about six months later, I went back. And instead of that desk, there was an office. And I’m like, what happened? And he is like, well, I just realized, as much as I wanted the open door feeling and that people could come to me. I just couldn’t do the things that I needed to do, because it was like a line, where people were wanting to talk to me every few minutes. David: Right. Yeah. And so everybody needs to determine how much they can take. How much they can actually get done, without completely distracting themselves. And you basically have to engineer your environment around that. But I think the idea of, professionals in particular, requiring the time and ability to stay focused. It can’t be understated. You really need to be able to do that. And a lot of times, because we’re so reactive, we don’t even think about it. And so simply by identifying the fact that you are going to require focus hours in at least some of your days. Probably most of them, if what you’re doing is important work. And because of that, you’re going to very likely have to change the way that things are done. Jay: Yeah, I know people and I’ve tried to start doing this in my own life where they only check their email at a certain time of day. They have an email check time. And their point is that they never get an email that has to be responded to immediately. If somebody has an immediate concern, they’ll call. They’ll do something else. And so they literally do not look at their email. I have my email up all the time. I’m going to be totally honest. And when one pops up, I will leave whatever else I’m doing. And I will respond to that email. And I know that this is an issue for me because then afterwards I’m like “now, what was I working on?” Because if I was typing something up, now I’ve lost my train of thought. And so I know that I’m hurting my productivity, David. But I still do it anyway, because I’m such a creature of habit. And I also have FOMO, the fear of missing out. I have FOMO so bad that I’m not sure how to stay focused long enough to overcome it. David: It sounds a little like a shared malady. Entrepreneurial A.D.D. Jay: Yes. Yeah. David: Where, it’s always the next thing. What’s the next thing? What’s the next thing? I certainly have a tendency to share that as well. But one of the things that I do when something is a real focus project –and actually, you and I through this before we jumped on this call. I literally turned off my phone, not just silenced it, not just turned it upside down on the table. Literally turned it off. Closed out the email, shut everything down, got rid of all the other apps so that we can have this conversation. And for something like this, it makes perfect sense to do that. But if there are other projects that I feel like I need to get done, I just do the same thing. And if it’s available to you, you’re going to do it, right? If you can access that email right away. And if it is in front of you, you are going to be a lot more likely to respond to it. I do tend to check email a couple times a day. There are some times where I’ll grab my phone and I’ll do it in between. But for the most part, I’m not a complete servant to my email for the exact reason that we discussed. It’s critical to set aside time when you can stay focused. Email is a list of other people’s priorities. And so if you’ve got priorities of your own, that are important enough to you, then you’ll start to do that. At least for me, that’s what I did. You know, another thing that helps me stay focused… actually, let’s start with this. One of the things that really distracts me from focus is input. So things like whatever, email, videos, social media, all of that is input. Most of us get paid, not for our input, but for our output. What is it that we’re doing? What are we actually putting out into the world? If you recognize that input is generally not dollar work and output is dollar work. It becomes easier to say, okay, no more input for now. I’m going to stay focused the next two hours on output. And that means shutting down social media, maybe turning off the phone or silencing it. Shutting down the email and then just focusing on the output. If you just think in terms of input and output, you can really start to make a big difference in terms of the focus hours you’re able to put in during any given day. Jay: I really like that. Kind of maybe having a balance scale in your mind. Am I spending more time with the input or the output? How much more could I accomplish in my job? How much more proficient could I be if I stay focused on that output? I have to tell you, while we’ve been talking, a text has come in and it’s up in the top left corner of all my screens. I haven’t looked at it. But It’s there. And I know it’s there. And it is so hard for me, David, to not look over at that while we’re… And so I forgot to put my computer in do not disturb mode. And so now it’s sitting there and I’m like, you know, “what if I just peek over?” But there’s no way that any text that I have coming over is going to be more important than what we’re talking about right now. So I’m going to exercise self-control and I’m… David: You’re doing great. Jay: …going to keep the discussion. Yeah. David: You’re doing great. I think if something popped up in the corner of my screen, I think my eye would automatically go to it. So you’re doing very well. To nutshell it really, I think a good question for all of us to ask ourselves is how much time each day can we actually stay focused? It doesn’t have to be eight hours a day. I mean, you ca

It’s not like there’s just one method to rule your territory. But the one thing that is critical to all of it, is identifying your area. Identifying your territory. Focusing in on it. Making sure you become a known commodity, so people have the opportunity to choose you. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast in today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing the idea of ruling your territory. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Yeah. Thank you, David. This is a really interesting topic. I’ve been excited to get to this topic, ruling your territory, being the master of your general… David: your domain Jay: …area. Yeah, of your domain. David: That was a Seinfeld episode, I think. Jay: Yeah, that’s right. However you want to say it. So many of the things that we talk about, I don’t know if they’re top of mind for business owners or for salespeople. They have so many other things going on. For them to be thinking about market share or things like that and how that can affect their business, especially over the long haul. David: Yeah. That’s why I think it’s great to discuss. Because when we are in the thick of it, we tend to forget about the fact that, whoever we are, if we’re a business owner or a salesperson, we are operating in a particular territory. And recognizing that we could be spread out, we could have a few customers. Let’s say we have two customers in one huge city, and we’ve got two customers in another huge city somewhere else. If we’re sort of spread out, but nobody else in either of those cities even know who we are, at that point we’re really not ruling our territory. And this idea sort of traces along with the idea of dominating your market, which is something that we talk about quite often. You know, what is your market? What is your territory? How do you define it? Is it defined primarily geographically that you sell primarily in your small geographic area? In your area of town? Your city? Your state? Is it nationwide? Is it with particular industries? How do you define it? Because that’s going to determine whether you are just inhabiting a territory or ruling it, dominating it. Jay: I like that question. Are you just inhabiting? Are you just there? Or are you ruling it? And I think one of the things that can be done, and I don’t see this in a lot of small businesses, is just making a list of all of your potential clients. And that should give you an idea of where you stand. And then if you know a list of who they’re using. And so, you know, your client and you know who your competitors are. I would think that that’s probably a good place to start. David: It’s a great place to start. And also thinking in terms of the other people who are like your clients who operate in a similar area, either in a similar geographic area or a similar demographic, however, you’re defining your territory. Also, when I use words like ruling and dominating, I don’t want them to sound as intimidating as some people interpret them to be. What I mean is that you’re essentially staking your claim. You’re saying, okay, look, this is an area where I want to do well. I want to excel. I want to be known. I want people to know me and I want to know other people in this particular market. They’re not all going to do business with me. I recognize that, but I want to make sure that all of the people who could potentially use my products and services at least know that I exist so that they could consider me if it makes sense for us to work together. Jay: Yeah. I think that’s really important. I think a lot of times people think about, well, I go in and I get the sale and if I don’t get the sale, well, then I’m done with that customer. But if you make it more of I’m going to go in and get a relationship, instead of a sale. If you get the sale, that’s great. But if you don’t, what happens when the customer they’re using falls down? David: Right. Jay: When the customer they’re using makes a mistake or goes out of business. If you already have that relationship, well now you are going to be the first call, right? So that relationship, I think, is so important. David: Yeah, I agree. And I think for most salespeople, the idea of relationship, it’s always a great talking point. Not always as well practiced as it should be. But it’s absolutely true. If we’re establishing relationships, that’s going to be great. And as many relationships as possible and as makes sense in a particular area. So let’s say somebody’s focused on selling to a niche industry, a niche industry, however you want to pronounce it. And you’re selling to the tech industry. You want to make sure that you’re interacting with as many tech people as possible within the market or territory that you’ve identified so that they have the opportunity to potentially talk about you. Oh, do you know Jay? Oh yeah. I know Jay! Right? Because if that happens, then you can start to develop a little bit of buzz. You can start to get more referrals. And when you become better known in a market, it just becomes a whole lot easier to dominate, you know, to actually score in that territory because they talk to somebody else, “oh yeah, I know them. I use them.” And when that happens enough, when they have enough of those conversations, they’re going to be a lot more likely to use you than if nobody else has any idea who you are. Jay: Yeah, in that first blush cold call. Is this a reason to like go to Chamber of Commerce meetings, and get involved in those types of organizations? David: It could be… Jay: …to help build those relationships. David: It could be. I think they definitely require investigation. Because some of them are great and some of them are terrible. And I know a lot of people who have gone to Chamber of Commerce functions and you go back week after week and it’s the same people and everybody’s trying to sell and nobody’s trying to buy. But I think that also goes to the strategy. Because if it’s the same people coming each week, then you want to at least build relationships with them and find out who in their organizations could actually potentially buy from you. As opposed to “yeah, I don’t do that.” And we’re just going to stand around and eat food and drink drinks and not get anything accomplished business-wise. That can happen. So I think it’s a good idea to say, okay, how far can I take those relationships? If they can refer me to the people in their organization who either could use help regarding what I do. Or if they could introduce me to somebody else that they know who could potentially use that sort of help, then you can get some sort of viral effects going. Jay: Yeah, I like that. I know you’ve also talked in the past about sending something to everybody who may be a potential customer. If you’re in the merchandising or print-on-demand business, sending them something with their logo or something like that, just so they’ve seen your name a couple of times. That can be a good start as well. Correct? David: It can, and when you’re doing something like that, some people say, “well, I don’t want to spend the money to do that.” But when you realize that your time is worth at least as much as anything that you might be sending to someone, it can really change your perspective. Some people are like, “well, I don’t want to spend 10 bucks and send somebody a promotional gift.” And you say, “Okay, well, are you going to spend three months of your life trying to figure out if this person is a good prospect for you?” What’s that worth? It’s worth a whole lot more than 10 bucks, probably. And so, if you can utilize something like that to get their attention, to get them engaged in conversation sooner, and to get them qualified in or out faster, it becomes worth a high multiple of whatever it is you would pay to send that out in the first place. Jay: Well, and also maybe you don’t send it to every potential customer. David: Right. Jay: Maybe you send out 10 a month, you know, five a month, whatever you can budget and just have that as part of your plan. So you don’t have to write this huge check that you can’t afford right up front. David: The other thing that something like that does, is it forces you to think about who it is that you’re reaching. Because you’re not going to want to do that with just anyone. And that’s actually a good thing. Because it forces you to think, okay, this is a large company. This is a person who probably makes the buying decisions here. This is somebody who’s worth a $10 investment to even have a conversation and get them qualified in or out. So I think it does a lot of good things in that regard. Jay: Yeah, I, love that idea. What else can I do as a business owner to focus on mastering the market? David: Well, I think if you really look at where you are currently spending your time, again, is it geographic? Is it within a particular industry? Are you spread out all over or do you have a nice, tightly concentrated group of clients in a particular area? If you do then to be able to spread out from there is easier. You can spread out closer to home, essentially, closer to where you’re already dominating. If you automatically jump to a new area, a new pond, you know, you want to be a big fish in a small pond or whatever. If you’re jumping from pond to pond, you’re not going to get the traction you’re probably looking for. So if you are established in a particular area, get as much business there as possible and then work to slowly spread out as close to that area as possible. If you are known in a number of different areas and you don’t have your business sort of consolidated, then explore which of those seems like the best opportunity for you. If you’re operating in a number of different industries, for example. So if you’re dealing w

Is customer service really dead? Technology can either help customer service a whole lot, or it can harm it a whole lot, depending on how it’s used. It’s like a weapon. You can use a knife to cut a steak, or you can use a knife to hurt somebody. And I think technology is being used the same ways. They’re trying to save themselves time, energy, and effort. But they’re forgetting the fact that there are other human beings on the other end of that technology. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of customer service. Is it well and truly dead? Welcome Jay. Jay: Well, I think it depends upon the industry, but I’m going to say it’s more dead than not as far as I can tell. David: Yeah, it’s sad. And I feel like in some businesses, in the best businesses, it’s not dead. And it creates a tremendous advantage for those who are still keeping it alive, whether on life support or just because it’s the way they do business. But wow. I have had so many experiences recently where it seems like not only is the customer service unresponsive, uncooperative, unpleasant… Jay: Mm-hmm David: And there’s just this level of apathy that seems to go with it, which when you combine those things, really does seem pretty deadly. Jay: Yeah. And I think there is a temptation, because there’s such great technology out there. There is a temptation to say, “look, we can cut our costs if we just implement this new technology that maybe answers questions online” or “press one for this or for that.” I can see the temptation, but I don’t know if they clearly understand the frustration. I’ll tell you one of my pet peeves right now are the chat bots. I’ll go online and they’ll say, “Hey, if you don’t want to sit on hold,” which is an admission already that you don’t have enough people, ” go ahead, just chat with us.” And I’m thinking I’m going to get a live person. And no, I get a chatbot and I type in my question and it sends me to a predefined link that doesn’t answer my question. And I’m like, “I’ve just wasted 15 minutes and I could have been on hold the whole time.” So, very cool tech, but on the customer end, I think it’s frustrating a lot of people. Does Technology Help or Hurt Customer Service? David: It really can, particularly because technology can either help customer service a whole lot, or it can harm it a whole lot, depending on how it’s used. It’s just like any other weapon, right? It’s like a weapon. You can use a knife to cut a steak, or you can use a knife to hurt somebody. And I think the technology is being used the same ways, where they’re trying to save themselves time and energy and effort. And they’re forgetting that there are other human beings on the other end of that technology. But even beyond that, tech aside, there are now situations where you leave a message for somebody, or you send them an email. I mean, that is obviously tech as well, but if the human being behind the email does not respond to the email or they don’t return the phone call or they don’t return the voicemail or they don’t return the text. Now it’s actually more human error than tech error. And that’s where I think customer service is really struggling right now. Because if you’ve got well-meaning well-intentioned people who are determined to use the technology to make customer service better, then those companies are not just going to survive, they’re going to thrive. But the problem is there are people in organizations who just don’t care enough about the customers to even do the basic minimum things like returning phone calls, returning voicemails, and that sort of thing. Jay: Yeah. And then there’s the question of, you know, how do you know if you’re a business? How do you know if those calls are being returned? How do you gauge your customer service? Do you have a system to follow up with customers to see what their experience was like? If you don’t have a system to gauge that, you may be in real trouble because of your customer service and not even know it. David: We were talking in a previous episode about the idea of when costs are increased and you have to look for places to cut back. When there are situations where a company is employing people who are not taking care of the customer, if you’ve got to cut back personnel, that’s the best place to start. If there are people who will not be educated, and who are unwilling to learn what it takes to continue conversations with clients, that is really problematic. And so for the people who are serious about growing and expanding their business, who are serious about maintaining the type of customers that make you want to go to work in the morning, instead of the type of customers that make you want to run screaming from the room? Then it really means that we’ve got to up our game. We have to up our game from a customer service standpoint, a management standpoint, and an ownership standpoint, to ensure that our people are being taken care of. And as consumers, I think it’s essential for us to let businesses know when we feel like they’re falling down on the job. Because you’re right. They might not know it. And they might not have the systems in place that they should have in place to track that. So if they don’t, really, the only thing that’s going to get their attention is the squeaky wheel, right? The customer who says, “Hey, listen, this is the experience I had, is this what you meant to do to me?” Jay: Yeah. And unfortunately, I think from the research and surveys I’ve seen, people are more likely to just stop using you than they are to tell you that they had a problem. Or they’ll go online and they’ll give you a nasty review. The nasty review can be a source of finding out where your problems are. But a lot of times I think customers just say, well, I’m done with them and they move on to the next guy. David: That’s exactly right. And most of the time that’s what I would do, I would say, “Okay, that’s it. Never going back there again,” I recently had a situation where we went to a restaurant that we go to pretty frequently. And I got an email from them saying that I had a $15 credit that was good till the end of the month. It was some sort of promotion or something like that. And I use their promotions frequently, so I was like, “oh, okay. I got a $15 credit. Let’s use it.” It was close to the end of the month. I said to my wife, “Hey, we should go here and grab some food.” It was, I think it was the 30th. It was going to expire on the 31st. We hadn’t planned to go out, but I thought, okay, $15 credit. I’ll use that. Right. Drop it on the floor. See how quickly I pick it up. And so we went to the restaurant, and had a great meal. Good time. The server was fantastic. Got to the end. Attempted to use the coupon. “Oh no. That’s only for people who took part in this particular promotion that went from this date to this date and who bought a gift card.” And I was like, “I don’t think it said all that in the email I got.” So she apologized and she was very nice about it. And like I said, I go there frequently, I like the place. But when I got home, I’m like, “this does not sit well with me.” So I submitted essentially a review, not an online review that people could see. I submitted it to their complaint department, which would go to somebody who could read it and address it. And I got a call back the very next day from the manager who apologized for the confusion. He said, “don’t worry, we’re going to take care of this for you. I see you’re a good customer,” I’m like a frequent rewards member, stuff like that. Go there a lot. So they saw how much we spent and the guy was great. He made it right. And in those situations you can say, “all right, whew. That’s good. Glad I was able to bring it to their attention and I’m glad they were willing to address it.” But there are a lot of businesses who are just like, “eh, yeah, too bad.” Gone. Jay: Yeah, and this is one of the things that bothers me. It’s that I think sometimes businesses, fear the customer that is complaining. And really they should be looked at as an opportunity. Because I’m going to bet that even though you had a bad experience with that restaurant, the fact that they called you right back after that whole process, I’m going to bet you’re more loyal to that restaurant. Because we all know that nobody’s perfect. All we want to know is that if they make a mistake that they’ll fix it, that they’ll solve it. And if we know that, we’re going to be more loyal, not less loyal. So having good customer service, especially when it’s complaints, I think is an incredible way to build loyalty. David: Yeah. And I think also when you’re complaining, you don’t want to burn bridges. Because if you’re a jerk about it, they’re going to be a lot less likely to help you. When I reported this incident, I talked about the fact that the food was really good. The server was great. It was a great experience, except for this one thing. And so I gave them an honest evaluation of what happened and they responded appropriately. But when we think about the idea of customer service, I like to believe that customer service is not dead, particularly among the companies that are smart about it and take it very seriously. I think that it does give a tremendous advantage to the people who are committed to fixing things that go wrong and who are committed to continuing to look for opportunities to make things better than what other people are doing. And to better serve their customers. With technology, it can and should be easier when we utilize it the right way and when we put that first. When we put the idea of engaging our customers, k

What’s your customer acquisition cost? I’ve been accused of being a bit of a maniac when it comes to lead tracking and making sure that we know where everything is coming from. I was a bit of a tyrant about that in previous businesses that I had, because you have to know what’s producing and what’s not. Otherwise, you can waste enormous amounts of money. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing what it costs to get a new customer. Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, it’s so good to be here, David. And customer acquisition cost is a very important metric that all companies need to know. It’s almost as though it’s part of your cost of goods sold. And if you don’t know this answer, you may think you’re making money and you might not be. David: Yeah. It’s really funny when I ask audiences that question, if I’m in front of a group and I say, “What does it cost you to acquire a new customer?” I get some blank looks, I get some smiles, some nervous laughter, some looking around. It’s generally a very small percentage of any given audience that actually knows their customer acquisition cost. And I think it’s interesting because if you don’t know this, or if you don’t even have an idea of what that cost might be, then you really have no idea not just what you’re putting out, what you’re getting from it, but you really have no idea how to continue to build from there. And I think to the extent that I do get answers when I ask the question, a lot of it is just generalities. It’s like, “well, I spend a lot, Oh, it’s a lot, it costs a lot.” But what is it? And some people are like, “Well, I don’t spend anything because I get referrals.” And whenever someone tells me that, that tells me that they’re probably doing 10 to 25% of the business they could be doing. Because if they’re getting a lot of referrals, that’s awesome. But if they’re just relying on referrals alone, there’s a lot that they’re leaving on the table. What is Your Customer Acquisition Cost? Jay: Yeah, I think that’s a great point. If you don’t know what your customer acquisition cost is, you can’t impact it. And it should be a goal to try and drive it down if you can. And if you can’t, work it into your sales costs, work it into your systems so that you can make sure that you’re profitable. David: Yeah. I think something else that people often don’t think of, particularly small businesses, they may go to Chamber of Commerce functions, they may do different things, go to different networking events and that sort of thing. And they don’t really think of that as a customer acquisition cost. Because they don’t value their time enough in a lot of cases. And so even if you’re not putting out actual cash in the form of advertising, marketing, things to get you noticed like that, there are acquisition costs. It’s going to cost you a certain amount of time out of your day. It’s going to cost you in terms of energy. It’s going to cost you in terms of effort. It’s going to cost you in terms of what could I be doing instead of what I’m doing now that could potentially produce a higher return? So there are a lot of different aspects to this and that’s why I thought it would be a good conversation to have. Jay: Yeah, I do agree with that. And you’re mentioning all the different types of customer acquisition. I mean, it could be something that doesn’t cost a lot. Maybe you can make viral videos and that’s driving customers to you. But there’s still an expense of creating those videos. There’s a lot of time and effort put into that, and they’re not calculating that in. They would probably tell you we don’t have a customer acquisition cost. But they’re paying somebody to spend 30, 40 hours a week to create viral videos. That’s a cost. David: Yeah. Or they’re doing it themselves, and if their time’s not worth anything, then they’re not spending money, but our time is worth something. Everybody’s time is worth something. And so those are the things that have to start going into the equation. Also, I think a lot of times people don’t bother tracking to see what is their customer acquisition cost in terms of time, energy, effort, and of course, money. Now, if they are spending money to generate leads, maybe they spend a certain amount of money to whatever, buy or rent a list, or maybe they spend a certain amount of money on advertising. Maybe they’re doing Facebook ads, or YouTube ads, or billboards. I mean, it could be anything, any sort of advertising, Newspaper advertising, obviously not as popular these days, online ads, lots of different ways that one can advertise to get their information in front of people. So if you’re generating leads or clients on social media, there’s a definite cost associated with that in terms of how much time are you putting in while you’re online, even if you’re not spending money on ads themselves. There is definitely a customer acquisition cost involved. So these are the types of things that it makes sense to sort of think about as you’re going in on a monthly basis, weekly basis, if not a daily basis. Jay: Yeah, and I think actual individual tracking, I mean, maybe it’s even just a spreadsheet of each platform that you’re using, if you’re paying for Google AdWords. If you’re paying for boosting on Facebook or anything else. Track what you’re spending. And then the other part of that, and I think this is where a lot of people miss, is when that lead comes in, it’s important to ask. It’s important to know, “Hey, how did you hear about us?” Because if you don’t do that, you’re not going to know what’s working and what’s not working. David: Yeah, absolutely. You have to be able to track your customer acquisition cost on the back end once that happens. And once again, I think there are a lot of people who don’t do this. They’re just out doing a lot of different things, potentially. And if you don’t know the things that are actually generating the results, how do you know how you can improve? Because it’s possible you could eliminate a number of different things that you’re doing that just aren’t producing as much. You could double down on the things that are working and you could generate a lot more customers in the same or less time. Jay: Yeah. And the beauty is with at least digital products or social media products, it’s so easy to track where those leads came from. If you have Google Analytics that will help you. Or we kind of talked about it last time, where you used to have an individual phone number for each type of advertising. Now you could just send them to a unique URL for each advertising vehicle and know instantly how many leads are coming through. And then the next step would be, well, how many of those leads are we closing? Because that’s how you really calculate your customer acquisition cost. David: Yeah, and I think in a sense what you said, that’s the ideal. That’s exactly what everyone should be doing all the time. But even getting to that, if people were to do things as simple as pay attention to what it is that they’re putting out, pay attention to where those leads are coming from, even generally. If someone contacts you, however it is they contact you and you’re not sure where they came from, just to ask them, “Hey, where did you hear about?” Now, if they’re contacting you online, if they’re contacting you through Facebook Messenger or something like that, then that gives you a bit of a hint that they probably saw something that you posted on Facebook and they’re responding to that. So you should be able to track your customer acquisition cost that way as well. Without that information, you really have such a disadvantage over the people who are paying attention to those sort of things. Jay: Yeah, and I don’t know about you, but I’ve been really surprised. You know, we make assumptions about what’s going to work. And of course, people selling us advertising products, they tell us how it’s going to work. But when you do actual tracking, I’ve been really surprised. I’m like, Really? That was the one that I thought, that was just a shot in the dark. I didn’t think that was going to work at all. And that’s the one that’s really performing. So I’m going to dial that one up. And these other ones that I thought were going to perform, and they’re not, I’m going to dial those ones down. I mean, this is how you improve the entire process. And it should be a constant process, right? David: Yes. And that is absolutely the case. I know, I’ve been accused of being a bit of a maniac when it comes to lead tracking and making sure that we know where everything is coming from. I was a bit of a tyrant about that in previous businesses that I had. I had a direct mail catalog business. And it’s absolutely critical in a business like that, because you have to know what’s producing and what’s not. Otherwise you can waste enormous amounts of money, and so that’s something that I’ve just carried over. So even now, if I run ads. There are different types of ads that can be run through different organizations that’ll be doing email communications that can be coded and tracked to a specific page on a website, as you indicated. So if they opt in from that page, you know that it came from this particular ad. It’s very easy to do. And as you indicated, sometimes you think this one thing’s going to be great, and it turns out that it’s not. Sometimes you think it’s going to be great and it is. Sometimes you’re right. But what’s really interesting is sometimes you can have a lead source that will generate a lot of leads and you think, “Wow, this is great.” But then you find out that they’re not producing anything. T

To monetize your sales pipeline, you need to fill it, prioritize it and tackle it. This whole idea of knowing what to do and not doing it, is rampant. It seems ridiculous. It’s like, “who would do that?” And the answer is nearly everybody does it. And none of us do it on purpose, but we all, to some extent, end up doing it. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to monetize your sales pipeline. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you, David. It’s such a pleasure to be here. I really can’t wait to talk a little bit more about this process. I see people who kind of think they have a pipeline. But they’re not sure exactly what to do with it. So a good, important topic today. David: Yeah. What to do with it or in a lot of cases, even what it is. I think even before we can talk about how to monetize it, you almost have to identify it. What is it? What is your sales pipeline? Who is it? Who are the people who are in it? Where is it located? Is it just inside your head? Because if it’s just inside your head, leaving enormous amounts of money on the table. Jay: Yeah, and we’ve talked in the past about key performance indicators, KPIs. First you have to know what that pipeline is. Then you have to know how to track it and where people are at in each stage so that things ideally trigger automatically. I think that’s the end goal, but getting there can be difficult. 3 Steps to Monetize Your Sales Pipeline David: Yeah, I mean I think of it in terms of filling it, prioritizing it and then tackling it. Because if you’re not doing it in that order, it’s going to be problematic for you. Jay: All right. Well then let’s start with filling it. Let’s get that going. David: Okay, Well, when we talk about filling our pipeline after we’ve identified what it is and where it is, filling it obviously is the biggest thing. And I think a lot of salespeople tend to think of this as being pretty important. Getting new leads into their pipeline. And of course, it is very important. It’s the number one step. Because until you know who’s in there, you don’t really have anything you can do. You’ve got to have the prospect first. So filling it starts with asking yourself, who goes in here? And what types of clients am I looking for? Are they in particular types of industries? Are they located in a particular geographic area? What are the different things that I’m looking for in terms of a good, solid prospect for my pipeline? So who goes in is very important. But who stays out is also extremely important. And we don’t think about this, but it is so critical. In my sales career over the years, particularly in the early stages, I just thought if someone was willing to talk to me then they were a good prospect. And I learned, not as quickly as I should have, that that’s just not the case. There are people out there who will be happy to talk to you again and again and never actually buy anything from you. So when you’re looking at who goes in and who stays out, think in terms of exactly that. When you are talking to someone, if you’re not able to get them qualified in as quickly as you’d like, to make sure that they have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend. Then, don’t keep going back to that well and expecting to get water out if there’s no water to be found. Jay: You know, we had exactly this problem here recently with the company I’ve been doing consulting for. They wanted to start using Google ads and David: mm-hmm. Jay: So they just put out some general pay for click kind of stuff, and their phones and their online scheduling just lit up. I mean every single day, packed and full. But only about 3% of those calls were related to their actual focus and their product. So they ended up spending all this time. And then what they had to do was go through a process of, like you said, Okay. Identifying the core customer and refining your keywords down to a point where you’re not getting all of that other stuff. At first, they’re like, “look at all these calls. This is going to be great,” and it turned into a huge detractor very quickly. To Monetize Your Sales Pipeline, Don’t Overfill it David: Yeah. And so when we think in terms of filling our pipeline, and I led with that. I said, Okay, first we have to fill it, but we don’t want to overfill it. And we particularly don’t want to fill it with people who have no likelihood of becoming clients. So, a lot of times the thought process is, you know, where is the next lead going to come from? Whether it’s coming from online, whether you’re doing something with Google, whether you’re doing in person prospecting, whether you’re doing it through social media, where they come from is not as critical as making sure that you’re getting people into the pipeline that you can qualify in or out as quickly as possible. So that’s really the first thing. Fill it, but don’t overfill it. Because I know people who have what they think are sales pipelines. It’s basically a database of thousands of people that they’re never going to get to, because they didn’t do the second thing we’re talking about, which is to prioritize it and decide, you know, who are the people in here that I need to be in touch with now? We need to rank the contacts inside that database so that we can be in touch with the right people at the right time. I mean, that’s really all prioritization is, starting with the most important contacts first, and that’s a challenge sometimes too, is to say, Okay, well who is most important? is it what they refer to as the bleeding neck thing? You know, who’s in the most trouble? Or is it, hey, I’ve got a really good, loyal client who reached out to me. Do I reach out to them first, or do I reach out to the person who’s screaming, who I might not know as well? That’s a personal decision, but in a lot of cases, you need to do your prioritization based on what’s most important to you. If it’s serving a really good customer first, then that person has to come first. If somebody else is screaming for service, but they’re new prospects and you have no idea whether or not they can spend a dime with you, you need to decide how that’s going to fall on the prioritization scale. And to the extent possible, if you have help, if you’ve got an administrative assistant who can help with some of that stuff, that’s great. But prioritization is absolutely key. Is it our best customers? Is it the person with the biggest, most pressing need? Now, biggest and most pressing are also two different things, right? Somebody might have a very pressing need for a very teeny, tiny order. And so if that’s the case, does it make sense for you to step away from what you’re doing with a bigger, more important order or customer to deal with somebody who’s got something smaller in mind. And once again, you’ve got to make some of these decisions for yourself. But when you recognize that there are different criteria that go into this decision, then it really becomes more of a simple thought process. Because you make those calls for yourself and then you make those decisions accordingly. And there are always people who are going to have time sensitive projects. So where does that fall into the overall scheme of things? People, you know, say they need stuff tomorrow or they need it immediately. And sometimes that’s the case and sometimes it’s not. So finding those things out is also part of this process. Jay: Yeah. One of the ways I ‘ve seen this done, kind of what you’re talking about, is identifying where different leads are coming from. So I have leads that are referrals and I have leads that are from Google Ads. And then I’m tracking my close rate on both of those leads, and I’m realizing that the ones that come from referrals or my current database, my close rate is 30%, and from Google it’s 10%. To me, that’s a great way to be able to identify where you should focus your time. David: Yeah. And in those situations too, I mean, some people will look at that and say, “well, I got 30% here and 10% there. Let’s forget about that.” But hey, 10% is still 10% right? And if your qualification procedure is tight, and you can disqualify the unqualified as quickly as possible, and I’m sure we’ll talk about that in future podcasts as well, then it makes perfect sense to look at that. Because the 10% that you’re getting from one source might actually perform better than the 30% you’re getting somewhere else, depending on how large a customer it is and what they’re buying. So there are all those different factors involved, and it’s smart. What you’re doing is very smart. Looking at that and trying to make those best decisions based on what’s actually happening in real life, in your customer base, in your prospect base. Jay: Yeah. Such a great point, because I may be able to close 30% of this type of lead, but I’m only getting three of those a day. And then on the 10% side, I’m getting 20 of those a day, so David: Right. Jay: That’s part of that calculation, right? David: Yeah, 10% of 20 is two. So if you can pick up two customers from it, then, you don’t want to throw that away. Jay: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other part is you don’t have to ignore those smaller percentages or things. You can have systems to deal with those people. Maybe you put them in a drip program so that they’re still getting contact from you. There’s other ways you’re not going to just, you know, kiss those people goodbye. You just may have a different way to reach out to them. David: Absolutely. All right, so we talked about identifying it, well, identifying it first, but then in terms of the 1, 2, 3 of it, filling your pipeline, prioritizing your pipeline, and th

To increase sales, profit, cash flow, and personal income, understand that money is always flowing in one direction or another. In a business, it needs to flow in from the customers. It needs to flow through to the employees and to the suppliers and to everybody who is providing you with services. And there needs to be something left over at the end to take home. And when you’re able to make those things happen consistently, everybody’s just better off. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing how to increase sales, profit, and personal income. Welcome Jay. Jay: Yeah. Thank you, David. I’m so excited, as usual, to talk about these topics that we discuss every podcast. I think that people often get caught up, especially small business owners, in one of these aspects, instead of having balance between all of them. And I feel like the one that they think about the most is sales. We have to increase sales. And if you’re not focusing on profitability in that regard, you could be generating all kinds of sales, but you’re not controlling your costs. And so ultimately those sales aren’t helping you. David: Yeah. Been there, done that. I think anybody, if you’ve started your own business, you’ve probably found yourself in this situation and gross sales is usually a good place for people to start. They’re thinking in terms of top line. Okay. I need to bring in as much as possible, which is true. You got to be bringing it in. But if you’re not paying attention to the rest of it, as you indicated, you could be selling a lot of stuff and losing money every day. And unless you’re keeping track of that, you’re not going to know it. I remember in the early days of my promotional products business, I would get together with my accountant once every 90 days. At the end of every quarter, actually the beginning of the following quarter, we would review the numbers for the previous quarter. And at that point, it’s too late to do anything about it. You feel like things are going well because you know, you’re selling stuff, but then you look at the expenses, the cost of goods, the cost of people, all your internal costs, your overhead costs. And you find out that you’re not making money on it. And 90 days later is too late. So once we got that in focus and we started doing it every month, reviewing what happened last month, where are our expenses too high and where are our gross sales too low? And which customers take up too much time and don’t generate enough revenue? Once we’re able to focus on the things that actually allow you to operate a profitable business, things got a lot better, a lot more quickly. And when we think in terms of these three things, how to increase sales, profit, and personal income, it’s almost like you’re starting here with the sales and then that generates whatever profit you have. And then after you’ve spent money on overhead and things, then you have some money to pay yourself, get some personal income going. But different businesses operate different ways. There are some business owners who are so focused on what am I going to bring in for myself that they may cut costs. They may short change people in terms of what they’re delivering in terms of product. They may choose less quality products. And so depending on where people’s focus is, determines where they’re going to be successful among those three things. Jay: Yeah. And I think you need balance. I mean, they’re all important. And so as you talked about looking at things monthly, I think having systems to identify and track each of these areas and have proper goals and benchmarks and reporting systems so that you can catch issues quickly. And pivot quickly is the only way you’re going to find balance in the force with these three things. David: Yeah, I agree. And I’ve operated businesses that had overhead that was too high. And that’s really hard. Because you feel like you’re trying to do everything right. And you’re trying to take care of the business and you’re trying to take care of your employees and you’re trying to take care of your customers. And if you don’t have the metrics right, it’s going to be pretty darn close to impossible to do that. And so finding the balance between the quality of product, which has to be high, the customer service, which has to be great. And the quality of client you’re interacting with, which also has to be great. When you get those three things lined up, you’re more likely to be successful, but if you’re not quite connected with some of those things, it’s a really uphill slog. Jay: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we’ve kind of mentioned this in some other podcasts, but I see businesses when they need to increase their profitability. Their default is we need to increase sales or revenue. And I think that can be misguided. Because in order to make a dollar in profit, you may need to increase sales by $10. But if you focus on reducing cost, like for example, in a restaurant, if you can reduce your food cost by 1%, that immediately goes to the bottom line and increases profitability. So I find that the much faster route to profit than just to increase sales. And I don’t know that every business person understands that. David: Right. And I think it’s probably because there is a limit to how much you can cut. But theoretically, there’s not a limit in terms of how much you can generate. Now, obviously there is. If it’s a restaurant, you’ve got a certain number of seats or whatever. In a promotional products business, there’s a certain number of customers that you can visit with. Whatever your business is, there are going to be limits on the upper end. But most businesses never see that. They never get to the point where it’s like, I’m totally overwhelmed. I’m extremely profitable. I’m making a lot of money and I’m capped out. Because when you’re doing things well, when you’re doing things right, you’re generating the revenue, you’re generating the profit, which means you can hire additional people. You can add the staff, you can get the help and you can still continue to make money. But when you’re not in that situation, when you’re just sort of barely eking things out, and you’re saying, “okay, I need to increase sales. I need to generate more.” Yeah, you probably do. But as you indicated, if you are able to cut some of your overhead costs by even just a small amount, all of that drops, whereas gross sales don’t drop. Gross sales do not drop directly to your bottom line. And I can’t tell you how many people I’ve worked with who forget that. And when they think about gross sales, when they focus on gross sales, when they talk about gross sales, they’re like, “oh yeah, we’re generating all of this.” It doesn’t matter if you don’t get to drop it and keep some of it and pay everybody who needs to be paid. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things is knowing what your cost should be. What is the ideal cost that you’re shooting for? Because you’re right. You can’t continue to reduce costs. There is a line. There’s a threshold. My experience, like in the restaurant business, we had something called a theoretical food cost versus our actual food cost. The theoretical was if we had no waste, if we had no theft, if we had no shrinkage, if we ran perfectly, what would our food cost be? And then we compared that to our actual food cost. And so the goal was constantly trying to close the gap between those. And if you’re not an industry where there’s no shrinkage or things like that, then that’s not going to be as easy. But this was a great system for us to always be trying to achieve, to close that gap between the theoretical and the actual. David: Yeah, there are also a lot of business people who, when they start talking about this or thinking about this, it feels cold. “Well, I don’t like thinking about the numbers. I want to make sure I’m taking care of my people” and all that sort of thing, which is great. You do want to take care of your people. But the only way you can take care of your people is by remaining in business. Cause if you don’t remain in business, you can’t take care of anyone anymore. Can’t take care of your customers. You can’t take care of your employees. You can’t take care of yourself or your family. So, paying attention to this and recognizing that, yeah, this is a real thing and it’s not just driving gross sales is absolutely critical. I’ve operated businesses that generated huge gross sales, but they didn’t have the profitability they needed. I’ve operated businesses that didn’t generate a huge gross amount of money, but they had really good margins. And that works well too. And I’ve also operated businesses that generated a lot of sales and had a lot of profit. That’s my favorite. That’s probably most people’s favorite. That’s what you want to stick with. But if you recognize that that’s the goal and you’re taking the actions necessary to make it happen, then you’re going to be in a much better position. Jay: Yeah, totally. And then, you know, something like a pandemic can come along and your sales drop and now you’ve got to pivot dramatically to figure out how to increase sales and stay open. And so it’s not like you can assume that the status quo is going to be the way it always is. You’ve got to be prepared to identify issues quickly and pivot quickly. David: Yeah, you should probably assume that the status quo is never going to be the status quo. Because in life and in business, things are constantly changing. And some people were able to pivot extremely well and extremely effectively during the epidemic. And some people were just like, “I don’t know what to do.” And we’ve, we see the results of t

Knowing how to uncover customer needs is critical. Essentially, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs implies that when one need is satisfied, another one is likely to pop up. Once I’ve got this satisfied, then I’m going to be working on this. And then I’m going to be working on this. It’s human nature. So if you recognize the fact that the needs are constantly going to be changing and you adopt a policy of constant requalification with your people — staying in touch, building that relationship, and finding out what they need next — you’re going to be in much better shape. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of uncovering customer needs. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. It’s such a pleasure to be here. I think that this is another great topic because a lot of times we just decide on our own what we think the customer needs, right? So we formulate that in our mind and we try and force that square into a round hole. You’re probably creating a lot more problems that you really don’t need to have. Uncovering customer needs in sales David: Exactly. When salespeople go in with the idea of “what I want to sell this person,” instead of “what does this person need,” they’re behind the eight ball right from the beginning. And I think there are some schools of thought in terms of sales, particularly if it’s a company that has one primary product that they’re looking to push, that, okay, you just have to go in and sell this. It reminds me of, you know, selling things door to door. If you’re a Fuller brush salesman and you’re looking to sell this one particular brush, well that’s my thing. That’s what I’ve got to sell. If you are sort of a one trick pony like that, if you’ve got one thing you want to sell, then this can still actually apply to you. Because when we think in terms of customer needs, I think a lot of people get stuck on the idea that uncovering customer needs means discovering which products they want to buy from us. And uncovering customer needs goes way beyond that. It’s more about what do they really need? Where are they struggling? What do they need help with? What are they trying to accomplish? Because even if you’re selling a Fuller brush, if you go in with the idea of “do you want to buy this brush,” the answer is no. But if you find out that what they’re struggling with is that they’re very busy and they don’t have enough time, and their life is chaotic. Then you may be able to let them know that this Fuller brush is going to allow them to clean things faster and be more economical in their time and accomplish some of the things that they’re telling you are actually important to them. So while that’s a rather extreme example, it really goes to the whole idea of what I believe uncovering customer needs is all about. Uncovering customer needs with questions Jay: Yeah. And I think there’s only one way to get to customer needs and that’s to ask questions, right? David: Right. Jay: If you start out with your sales pitch, you’re not going to know what their needs are. And I also like the idea of letting them talk and that helps you build the relationship and discover their needs. Is there another way besides asking question? David: I don’t think there really is. I mean, you’ve got to be able to get the answers from them. The only way that you can actually uncover what a customer needs is if they vocalize it. I mean, unless it’s something that you’ve observed, Hey, it looks like you could really use this. Right? Or if somebody refers you to that person and says my friend could really use what you’re offering here. But even then, it’s somebody else’s opinion. So that’s just the beginning of a point of conversation. Hey, your friend suggested I give you a call. I understand that you’re looking to accomplish this and perhaps this item can help. Wanted to see what your thoughts are about that. And then yeah, as you indicated, let them talk. Jay: Yeah, and letting them talk, I think you kind of help them understand why the customer needs your product. And like you said, it may not be something they’re thinking about. They may not know that they need your product. But like you said, maybe there’s something else in their life where they don’t have a lot of time. This product will save you time and so you can actually deal with other issues in your life better. So, figuring out how you can best serve them and then helping them come to that conclusion. I love to go down that path in the sales process. David: Yeah, I agree, and I think this really kind of ties to the idea of what a lot of people think of in terms of features and benefits. If I’ve got a phone what’s the feature of my phone? Feature of my phone is that it’s this big and it’s got a big screen and lots of colors and good audio quality. But what are the benefits? Well, you know, the benefits are that I can be in touch with the people that I care about. I can be responsive to customer needs. I can have the latest and greatest in terms of technology to allow me to connect better with everyone. So, there’s features and benefits, and I think that’s something that a lot of people talk about. But if we really want to get serious about it, it even goes beyond that. And it starts to get into sort of the emotions and the experiences that people want to have. Like we were talking about before, if somebody wants to clean their house, what do they want it to feel like? What do they want it to smell like? What’s the experience that they want people to have when they come in? And I mean, we’re not selling cleaning products here. Again, I’m using this more of an extreme example than anything else. But recognizing that there are a lot of different stages to this. And if you focus just on uncovering product needs, you are very likely going to be selling a much smaller percentage of the audience than would potentially buy from you. Jay: Yeah. And I think oftentimes, depending on what your product is, what you’re really selling is yourself. And once they trust you and believe in you, then they’re going to take your word for it, that that product will do what it says. So you got to realize that it is about relationships so often. David: Yeah. And it’s a lot easier to sell someone on you, if you are interested in them . Right? I think there was a, a brief synopsis I heard one time of How to Win Friends and Influence People. And it basically said if you talk to other people about themselves, they’ll think you’re the most interesting person in the world. Jay: Yeah, I can remember going into a situation, I had a partner at the time, and every time we went into that situation, all he did was talk about himself and then talk about his product. And people would just sit there and they would start to tune out and he never figured it out. I’d come in and when I led, I’d just ask questions and ask questions and you look for those nonverbal cues as well. You know, are they paying attention to me? If they’re not, I need to get their focus again. Are they nodding their head in agreement? Okay, that means they’re coming along. If they look confused, of course, that’s very hard over the phone, but if you’re doing it in person, I find those nonverbal cues to be essential in determining customer needs. David: Yeah, and a lot of people just don’t always do that. I mean, I think another important aspect of this whole topic is that customer needs are always changing. So when we talk about the idea of uncovering a customer’s needs, just because you did it today doesn’t mean that those needs are the same tomorrow. They’re not going to be. And if you are in the kind of business where you’re looking for long term business and long term relationships, and you want to be able to continue to sell to someone, then you really need to sort of get things in gear and recognize that it’s a constant process of requalifying and finding out where are they now? What did they need today that they didn’t need before? How did what they purchased from me before now create new situations that they need to tackle that could require something that I could provide to them later. I mean, a great example in the promotional products industry where we do a lot of business, is that some people use a promotional item to get people to come into a retail store, Come on in and you’ll get this free item. So let’s say it’s a car dealership. Come on into this car dealership and you’ll get this free key fob, right? And on the key fob, there’s a key, and you can try it out in the trunk of this car that’s in the showroom. And if it opens up the trunk, then you win some sort of prize. Right? So that would be designed to get somebody to actually come in. So once they come in, what’s the next thing you want them to do? The next thing you want them to do is probably to take a test drive. Because the goal is to get them to buy a car. They’re not going to come in for the free thing and then just immediately buy a car. So you say, Okay, what we’re doing today is for everybody who takes a test drive, you get a free dashboard cell phone holder for your car. And so then that would increase the number of people who’d be taking a test drive. And then it’s great, okay, so they’re in the test drive, they’re doing the test drive, they’re enjoying the feel of the car, the smell of the car, everything like that. And then the person says to them, you know, for people who buy a car today, we’re including a pair of Italian leather racing gloves that match the interior of the vehicle, right? Custom imprinted, of course, when that’s what you’re selling. So you can use your products to lead your prospects down a path that accomplishes their goals a

I would say the number one thing that helped me to overcome call reluctance is when I realized the people who are likely to yell or scream or be angry or be obnoxious or belligerent, they're not the people we're doing it for. We are doing it for the needles in the haystack. We're doing it to find that perfect-fit customer that needs what we have to offer, and who was waiting for someone like us to come along. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of overcoming call reluctance. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: So glad to be here, David. And I really want to hear your feedback on this topic, because this is something that I struggle with. I've been put in sales positions in the past. I have a list of leads. All I have to do is pick up the phone and dial those numbers, and I can't bring myself to do it. Which is funny. I can do it, if it's a qualified lead and they're expecting my call, or if they've set an online appointment with me, all of that fear goes away. But if it's a cold call, forget it. I can't do it. I just can't. David: Yeah, well call reluctance is a big topic for people who have to make cold calls, and that is one aspect of it. But you hit on a couple of other aspects of it. There are some people who still struggle with the idea of picking up the phone, even when somebody is looking to hear from you. So, we'll touch on a little of all of that, but you went to the big thing first, which is the idea that there are a lot of people who struggle with call reluctance. They don't want to pick up the phone, they don't want to do it. And if we think about the reasons for that, a lot of it becomes kind of obvious. What would you say is your number one reason? Jay: I guess fear of rejection. It's just hard for me to feel like I'm going to get them to want to hear me. David: Yeah, and one of the reasons that I struggle a bit with this topic is that I'm not a huge fan of cold calls. It's not that we don't do them , we do. It's not that I haven't done them, I have. But generally speaking, my approach is to try to lead with something of more value. So in those situations, if you follow up with a phone call, it's a lot more welcome than if they're not expecting your call. But yes, what I've found personally and also with a number of the people that I worked with is that a lot of people think, Well, it's fear of failure. It's fear of rejection. I'm afraid that this person is going to get mad or they're going to get angry or they're going to hang up on me, and all valid fears because those things happen when you're making cold calls. And so part of it for me, because those of us who have been in positions where you had to make the calls, regardless of whether or not you felt like it, you have to come up with a way to get over that. And the things that helped me the most, I would say the number one thing that helped me the most, was when I realized the people who are likely to yell or scream or be angry or be obnoxious or belligerent, they're not the people we're doing it for. We are doing it for the needles in the haystack. We're doing it to find that perfect fit customer that needs what we have to offer, that was waiting for someone like us to come along, you know, the knight in shining armor or whatever. Those are the people that we're doing it for, and you can't get to those people until, and unless you first get to the ones that might not be as receptive to your message, shall we say? Jay: Yeah, absolutely. My dad was a very successful salesman his whole life. And he always told me that every day he has a goal for how many no's he's going to get. He just knew if he's going to have a successful day, he's got to have a hundred no's. And of those no's, he's going to pick up a certain percentage of yeses. And so that's how he made it a game. He made it fun for himself. That tactic never worked for me, but I know it works for a lot of other people. Cause after 10 of those nos, I'm just worn out, you know? David: That is so true. And I've heard that and I know that that works for other people. And the fact that it does makes me say, Hey, listen, if that works for you, absolutely do it. For those of us who are like, eh, still not quite there for me, it's like, okay, well we need another way of approaching it. We need another way to think about. Because really fear of success, fear of rejection, fear of failure, it doesn't even matter. It all boils down to fear, right? And so if we recognize that it is really fear that's at the core of this, or in some cases it's a lack of confidence or a lack of certainty. I'm not sure what's going to happen. It could be fear of uncertainty. I'm not sure what's going to happen. And no one is. You can't be. If you're making a cold call, you cannot be at all sure of what's going to happen. They may be great, they may be terrible. It may be somewhere in between. Most likely somewhere in between. But it could go any of those ways. So when you recognize that and I guess this is actually pretty similar to what your dad was talking about in the sense that he knows he needs to get enough nos to get to the Yes. If you think of that in terms of getting to the people that we're actually doing this for, they are very similar. But for me there's a mindset difference. The mindset of finding the right people that can be long term customers and recognizing that I kind of have to go through this. I have to sort of run that gauntlet in order to get to the people that I actually want to get to. Jay: Yeah, and also as I think about it, it's just harder work to cold call because you have to first get them to stay on the phone with you, then you have to get them to believe in your product It's a lot harder than if they've been on your website and they scheduled a free consultation, right? Now they've already kind of said, I need your product. So you're way ahead in that regard. David: Yeah. I also think that call reluctance is not probably the best description of what people are dealing with, because in a lot of ways they're dealing with contact reluctance. Sometimes it's like, Oh, I have to email this person. I don't feel like doing it. In person, I have to go to this networking function and I don't feel like doing it. I mean, a networking function isn't like cold calling, but it has similarities. If you're going to this thing for the purpose of meeting people and introducing yourself and trying to come up with a prospect, then it is kind of like cold calling. So I think the idea of call reluctance is only a sliver. It's really only part of the issue that people are dealing with. And if you recognize that it's contact reluctance, or in a lot of cases it's first contact reluctance, then it becomes maybe easier to deal with. Because if you're not comfortable making a phone call and if you have the option to initiate other forms of first contact, then you can very likely come up with another form of first contact that works better for you. So you can accomplish the same or even better results without having to convince yourself that the only way to do that is to overcome your call resistance or reluctance. Jay: Yeah. I love how you described it, first, contact resistance. That's what I have. Because it is the same, whether it's on the phone. I've been at trade shows, and I've just got to go up to different booths and talk to people. And they're there to talk. That's why they're there. Right? And that's the scenario I struggle with. But if I'd been introduced to them or if they'd been prequalified, no issue whatsoever. So that puts me in a place where if I'm going to be in sales, it's got to be a specific type of sales funnel where I can thrive in. Because you know, I'm not the person and I tell people this, I'm not the pound the pavement, cold contact guy. That's just not where I'm successful. But I'm a closer. Right? So yeah, put me somewhere in that funnel and I can close. Don't put me at the front of the line though, because that's not where my skill-set is. David: Yeah. This is what we work with with our clients all the time in our Total Market Domination course. And one of the modules, I think it's module five, is about first contact. And it's about coming up with a first contact that makes sense for you. Meaning it's something you're not afraid to do, you don't hate doing, you don't dislike, you're not afraid of doing it. It's something that you're like, "Oh yeah, I'm actually comfortable with this." And there are lots of different forms of first contact that actually just position you a whole lot better than a cold call. Things like networking, that's one approach to it. But also, if you have a list of prospects, it could be something as simple as sending them something in the mail and then calling to say, Hey, did you get the thing I sent you? Because a call like that is a hundred times easier than making that first call. And in a lot of cases, and again, I do a lot of work in the promotional products industry, so people who are sending out some sort of promotional gift in advance and then calling to say, Hey, did you get the item I sent you? It creates that gift of obligation, among people of conscience. Not everyone has a conscience, but among people of conscience, it does create a bit of a gift of obligation. So people are more likely to take the call and they're more likely to be nice to you when they pick up the phone because you sent them something in advance. I mean, that's just one example. But other forms of first contact can be things like social media. Your first contact with them could be replying to something that they posted on social media. Now at least you're on their radar. They have an idea of who you are. And if you were able to continue that discussion inside a direct message,...

Million-dollar ideas don’t always create million-dollar results. Only focused implementation can do that. I remember the day that I got a phone call from a client who said, "Hey, we hit a million dollars in sales for this year. I'm really excited." It's a huge thing, because when you're looking to grow like that -- when you're talking about multiplying your revenue in a relatively short period of time -- there are very specific things that have to happen. Most people don't know what those things are, and even if they do know what those things are, they don't take action on them consistently enough to make it happen. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing million dollar ideas. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you, David. I have to tell you, this is a running joke in my home that I constantly have million dollar ideas. But I never do anything about it. And so I'll have them.And then years later, my wife's like, you told me about that, you know, five years ago, why don't you do something about it? And I'm like, I don't know. David: Yeah. And you're not alone. I do the same thing. I think pretty much anyone I know who's been involved in business in any capacity has had ideas. And then they see that somebody else did it later. And they're like, "Oh man, I thought of that years ago." And it's like, yeah, well, unfortunately, as you indicated, thinking about it does not actually get it done. But it's a fun topic because since we all pretty much have had them, we all have million dollar ideas, the question becomes. What are you doing with it? Or are you doing anything with it? And as I was thinking back on this in preparation for this podcast, it occurred to me that of the million dollar ideas that I might've had, and who knows, the ones that you don't pursue, you have no idea what they're worth, especially if nobody else then comes along and turns it into a billion dollar idea, but it occurred to me that I only took action on a few of them, and the ones that I took action on actually yielded some really good results. And the thing about a million dollar idea is... There's a time component that really plays an important part in that, right? You could say, all right, my million dollar idea is to make $25,000 a year from the time I'm 25 until the time I'm 65. So if you multiply $25,000 by 40 years, it's a million bucks, right? But if you're earning $25,000 a year and it costs you $35,000 a year to live, then that plan is not going to work for you. But it is a plan. It's an idea. It's a million dollar idea. And so as we're thinking about things that can actually get us from where we are to where we want to be. It's a good idea to consider that. All right. Well, what's the likelihood of generating revenue from this and how much on an ongoing basis so I can have an idea of where it's going to take me? Jay: Yeah, it's such a great point. I think for me, the fear of putting myself out there is one of the reasons why I haven't pursued. And I've taken, some of them were good enough. I've taken a little stabs at them and I want to be successful by just stabbing at them and not really diving in a hundred percent. And it's not until I said, "okay, I'm all in." It wasn't the idea that was bad. It was my desire to actually put any work and effort. I've just, I've always said, I want to have a company where all I do is come up with ideas and sell them. I don't want to have to actually put the effort into, working on them. Why can't I just earn the money from the idea? David: Right. Yeah. It'd be great if it worked that way, but somebody has to do the work that actually generates the revenue. But when I think about million dollar ideas, particularly as it relates to business. If somebody's doing $250,000 a year in their business in four years, that became a million dollar idea. Now, again, if that's your gross sales, it doesn't mean that you're making that much, right? It doesn't mean that you're pocketing that much, but it counts. It's a million dollar idea, and then the question really becomes. Is my million dollar idea a million dollars in a lifetime? Is it a million dollars over 10 years? Over five years? Over a year? Is it a million dollars a month? Is it a million dollars a week? A million dollars a day? Because different businesses generate different amounts of money. I don't know what Amazon is generating, how quickly it generates a million bucks, but it's probably a lot faster than a million a day. It could be down to the minutes and seconds, probably is. Jay: Yeah, I really think a lot of what you're talking about is your expectation, right? you're just saying, I want to have this idea to make money, that to me really kind of feels misguided. And to be honest with you, a million dollars does not sound like that much money anymore, right? So it's more a matter of, I think defining better what the idea is and what you want it to achieve. Are you looking for financial freedom to where you can travel and buy nice cars? Are you just looking to pay your bills? I think putting some better definition on it is more important than using this word million dollar and somehow that's a sign that you've been successful. Cause as you said, you may be making millions a year in gross sales, but you could be losing as much, if not more. So, yeah, you have to be a little bit more specific than that. David: I remember when my daughter was young, we were talking about the idea of a million dollars at one point. And I said, well, think about this. Let's say you make a million dollars. You're able to save a million dollars and you've got a million dollars. You've got exactly a million dollars in the bank. And so you go out to celebrate and you go have lunch at McDonald's and you spend $12. Now you're no longer a millionaire. Right? Because you spent your twelve bucks. Whatever it is. And, I don't know, just the idea of these money benchmarks being some form of accomplishment, I think is a little misguided. Jay: Yeah. David: And generally it's misguided by people who look at it as a goal, think that it's something to aspire for, and then if and when you get there, it's like, oh, okay, now what? You know, now you go for more, right? And no matter what your number is, even if you're Warren Buffett and you're a multi billionaire, probably another extra billion or two never hurts. Jay: Yeah, I agree. For me, I kind of think about how I determine success in business. I have steps, like you said, benchmarks. So my first benchmark is, can I just pay my bills? Right? Can I feed my family, pay my car payment, keep the electricity on? If I can pay my bills, I've achieved a level of success because I don't have to go out and have somebody else tell me how to do my job all day for an hourly wage. So that's goal number one. Can I pay my bills with my business year round? Then I start saying, well, can I still make the money I'm making, but do less or spend less to make it? So maybe I only have to go into this business three days a week, and then two days a week I can be with my family or I can be tinkering, you know, with my car in the garage or something like that. So I start to look at it more in terms of time than I do in terms of actual dollar amounts. David: Yeah, the time component is huge and also consistency I think is huge. I had a client who signed up for our Total Market Domination course a couple of years ago. She was doing about $250,000 in sales at the time. She wanted to get to a million dollars. And so we went over the specific steps that she would need to take to do that. And she was a great implementer. She was able to do it. And I remember the day that I got a phone call from her and she said, "Hey, we hit a million dollars in sales for this year. I'm really excited." Jay: Yeah. David: It's a huge thing because when you're looking to grow like that, when you're talking about multiplying your revenue in a relatively short period of time, there are very specific things that have to happen. Most people don't know what those things are, and even if they do know what those things are, they don't take action on them consistently enough to make it happen. So for those who are looking to get to benchmarks like that, if you have a million dollar idea, if you know in your bones that this thing is likely to generate that amount of money, but you're not quite sure how to get there, then we really ought to have a conversation. Jay: Yeah, and again, we talked about scary things and the fear of the unknown in our Halloween podcast. That's what's so hard, and one thing I keep telling people is, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. This is not the beginning of time . There are so many people out there who have done this and duplicated this over and over again. And often times, just coming up with a unique idea, that's one of the toughest parts of the battle. Then if you can access and not be afraid to talk to people, see people like yourself, who have done this over and over again, and who have helped other people achieve it, if you can get rid of a lot of the unknown, and then just implement your idea, how much better is that going to be for you? David: Exactly. And so much of it just boils down to focus. It's about what are the few things, what are the fewest steps I can take, the fewest number of activities that I can engage in to get me to my goals. And a lot of times it's a lot simpler than people think. But they're so distracted with all these different things they think they have to do that they end up missing the boat. And it goes back to your point earlier where, "hey, wouldn't it be great if I could do less things, do fewer things, and still generate the revenue?" And the truth of the matter is that if you're doing too many things,...

Jay: I'm not lying when I tell you that I struggle with this idea that I'm being a pest in sales. So I think it'll help my sales, I think it'll help my daily attitude towards what I do. David: Well, I'll tell you something, Jay, many of the most conscientious human beings feel this way. I mean, if you're one of those sales guys who, "Hey, everybody loves me," you're not even going to think of that. It's never even going to occur to you. So the people who are most likely to struggle with this are people who just want to help. They're there to provide a service. Jay: Yeah. David: They don't want to be a pest. And so really, most of the people who feel this way are the ones who are least likely to be a pest because they're not arrogant to begin with. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast in today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland, and I'll be discussing the topic of how to avoid being a pest in sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Oh, thank you for having me, Dave. This is a real problem for me. I always feel like a pest in sales, whether it's an email, whether it's a text, I always feel like they don't want to hear from me. And. it's been an ongoing problem. I'll just be honest with you when it comes time, okay? I got to sit down and reach out to people. I'm like, oh, do they really want to hear from me? Am I going to bug them? How do I get over that? David: Yeah, it's a great question. A number of years ago, I was doing a speaking presentation and Mary Lou Retton, the gymnast, was also speaking at the same event, and she told this story. It was just so great. I don't know if somebody asked the question, but it came up in her presentation where people were saying to her, when she was doing her routine, the person who went on before her did a really, really good routine. And so at that point, the pressure would really be on her to deliver a flawless performance if she wanted to be able to get the score that she needed. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: And so the question was how do you deal with that when this person delivers a great performance and you have to go on next? Don't you feel nervous after that? And her response, I'll never forget it. And this was easily 10 or 12 years ago this happened. Jay: Yeah. David: Her response was, "you know, I watched her performance and it was great. And I looked at it and I thought to myself, wait till they get a load of me!" Jay: Mmmm. David: And I was like, "wow, how much does that apply in sales?" Jay: Yeah, David: I mean, I think it applies every bit as much in sales as it does in gymnastics. If you go in with the idea of, oh, that person's better than I am, or they're not going to like me, or they're going to think that I'm annoying, or I'm rude, or I'm obnoxious, or I'm a pest, or whatever. If you go in with that mindset, then what you are likely to say, the way that you're likely to position yourself, all of those things are going to reflect that. But if you're able to go into a situation with the idea of "wait 'til they get a load of me," or at least "I have something valuable to offer." Now, any salesperson who doesn't feel like they have something valuable to offer should be either in another line of work or selling a different line of product. Right? Jay: Yeah. David: You need to be able to feel good about what it is that you're selling. And if you know that what you're selling is, ideally, better than the competition. If you know that you're going to deliver better than your competition, you know that you're going to be more responsive, you're going to be more concerned, you're going to be more caring. If you know all those things, then you owe it to the client to convey all that. And if you don't convey it to them, then you're doing them more harm than good, and you're doing yourself and them more harm than good. So, If you look at it from the standpoint of, "I'm here to provide a solution, I'm here to help," then it's a lot easier to not start thinking of yourself as a pest and just recognize that if you're there to help, it's very difficult to be a pest. Jay: Yeah, I'm not a pest. I'm a value. And I'm trying to pass that value on. It's really interesting because, you know, I do these initial consultations and I'm going to toot my own horn. I am incredible at building that first relationship. But in that first relationship, it's them learning. We don't talk about costs a lot or anything like that. And then we schedule a second follow up, and that's where we get into the other things. And it's the second follow-up where I'm like, oh, now we're going to talk about money. Now I'm going to turn into a pest. Now I'm going to do that. And I can see how what you're talking about is, "no, I got them excited in the first meeting, and so why would they think I'm a PEs in in the second meeting?" And, and furthermore, maybe I should just get to the money in the first meeting and do it when I've got them excited initially. David: Well, yeah, that's a great point. Because if they are excited and if they're ready to move forward, then scheduling another call and having time pass in between and they get distracted, it's probably giving opportunities for them to fall out of the process. So, Jay: mm-hmm. David: I think you just asked and answer a great question for yourself. Jay: Yeah. David: But if you think of a pest, I mean, I think of something like a mosquito, right? A mosquito is a well recognized pest. And it's buzzing around you and it wants something from you. It wants blood, right? And so it's trying to get to you so that it can take something from you and not give you anything except maybe a bump of your skin, right? Which is not pleasant. So, If you're not doing those things, then you're really not a pest. And when you are creating value in your communication, when you're creating value in the relationship, there's nothing pesty at all about that. If you're talking to somebody about the products and services you offer and they're interested, even if they're not like really excited about it, if they're like, "oh, okay, that sounds interesting. I'm open to this..." Jay: Yeah. David: And then you provide them the information on, okay, here's how much it will cost. Here's how it's going to work. Then at that point they get to evaluate, does this make sense for me? Can I justify the cost of that for what it is that you're offering? If the answer is yes, you're going to be doing business together. If the answer is no, if they tell you that, if they say, well, listen, this isn't for me, that's not in my budget, and if you can't come up with another solution, then at that point the conversation is over. The person is disqualified and you move on. The times where we're most likely to feel like a pest is when we're talking to somebody and they start ghosting us. Jay: Hmm. David: And when that happens, when they start ghosting us, then we feel like we have to follow up because they asked for information from us, right? Jay: Right. Right. David: They wanted to know stuff. They seemed interested. They said they were interested. Now I'm supposed to follow up on a certain day at a certain time, and they're not taking calls and they're not returning calls and all that sort of thing. At that point, if you are following up, you're not being a pest. You are attempting to deliver what it is that they asked you for. It's like if you called and ordered a pizza and I'm the pizza delivery boy, and I come to your house and I know you're in there and I'm ringing the bell and you're not answering it. Jay: Yeah. David: Well, am I a pest because I'm trying to deliver the pizza you ordered? I think the answer is no. And it's the same thing here. If you're trying to provide them with information they requested, if you're trying to follow up because they said they have a particular in-hands date on an order and they're not responding to you, then at that point, what you're doing is not being a pest. What's happening is that they are being rude. They are being discourteous. Right? They are wasting your time and wasting their time. They're also creating frustration because you're frustrated because you can't reach them. They're probably frustrated because they might see you calling and they're like, "I don't want to take this call." So they're creating unnecessary anxiety by doing those things. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: So I put out a post on social media the other day talking about my feelings about people who ghost. And they're not good. I don't remember exactly what I posted. It's up there on social media. I'll share it below this video. But when we are in a situation where people have an interest, express an interest, we're having a decent conversation, then as long as you're acting with integrity to try to get them what they said they wanted from you, I don't think there's anything pesty about that. Jay: No, I, think that's a great perspective and you've helped me as I've got calls coming up after this podcast that I need to do, and I think I'm going to approach them with a little bit different perspective. And also, if somebody is ghosting you, they are systems now, right? I put them in a drip program and so they're still going to hear from me automatically. I don't have to do anything about it. And. If the time comes around where they realize again that they need me, well, I'm still in their face a little bit and they'll come around and I don't have to worry about it until then. David: Right. And so when we think about the topic to avoid being a pest, I mean, essentially if you are focused on them, you're focused on helping them, you're focused on getting them the answers they need, focused on helping them to create value to achieve the results they're looking for then as long as you're continuing to do that and literally just trying to provide them with the informatio

Want to get better sales leads? It starts with tracking what works. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will discuss the topic of where are your best leads coming from? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you. And I'm just going to answer the question. I don't know. (laughing) I'm just... David: Short podcast. Thanks for listening. Jay: Yeah, I'm just going to say it straight up. I mean, I do have some systems. We do try and use Google Analytics and things like that, and that helps a little bit. But I've never done a deep dive yet on this is the source, this is the well or the font of where my best leads have come from. So I'm looking forward to this discussion. David: This is really a good one to look at and to dive into a bit, because I've always maintained that if you don't know where your best leads are coming from, then you don't know where to go to get more of them, and when you are able to identify it, everything else gets a whole lot easier because now you can go fishing in the same ponds, rather than just trying to put stuff out to anyone and everyone, which is very expensive to do. You can really tune in and focus in on what people are doing, where they're coming from, how they're hearing about you so that you can go find more of them. In addition to... well, a number of the businesses that I've been involved in over the years, one of them was a retail mail order catalog business that I owned. And in a business like that, it's absolutely critical to know where your best leads are coming from. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: We would run magazine ads and we would get people out of different magazines. We had ads running on television that were designed to get leads for our catalog business. And every single one of the ads we ran had some sort of mechanism to let us know where they were coming from. If it was calling an 800 number, we had one primary 800 number, but we would give them an extension to ask for. So we'd say, call this 800 number extension 214. Right? And 214 meant that it was coming from this particular TV station or whatever. If they were seeing something online, there would be specific links that they would click through that would tell us where it was coming from. If it was a magazine ad, it was a similar kind of thing on the back of the magazine, it would say, call this number, dial this extension, or go to this web address, and there would be a slash with a suffix on the url.. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: And that would tell us where it came from. And when people would call in, one of the first things that our people were required to ask them is, "where did you hear about us?" And there was a box there that they would fill out. Where did you hear about us? Oh, I saw your ad on such and such a magazine, or, I saw your ad on such and such a TV station. And so we would have the data that the computer said based on what they came in and said, and then we would also have the data corresponding with whatever the person said. So I was pretty pathological about it, and to this day I'm still very pathological about determining where leads come from. Even now when, you know, at the end of this podcast, when you say, how do people find out more? And I give out a link that link tracks back to the podcast, it lets me know that the people who register on that link, Came from the podcast. And if they're coming from some other ad, then it's going to have a different code and that sort of thing. So it's not that hard to do when you discipline yourself to do it. And most people don't do that until and unless they realize how much it is actually worth to you when you do that right. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And in today's world, honestly, there is no excuse. It is so easy. There is so much data out there. If you want to target a specific group, you can target that group. And that's kind of the process, right? You're going to send out a link for this podcast, you'll know who you get back. You'll know age groups and those types of things. And then you'll be like, well, let's adjust it this way, or let's adjust it that way. I mean, never in our history has there been such an easy way to say, I want this age group who's interested in this type of thing. Then you can target that group. And then based upon that new batch of information you can target in even more. I know we all kind of complain that we're being tracked everywhere we go, but at the same time, we're all asking for it. We're subscribing to newsletters, we're hitting the like button. We're feeding all of that information. So it becomes this circle, right? And I think it's incredible personally. And if I am going to get sent an ad, I want it to apply to me. When I get something that I'm like, there's no way that this is something that I would ever consider. I almost get angry. Like, come on, get your algorithms together here. David: Yeah. And what you're talking about is probably a level or two above what I'm even talking about. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: I'm talking about simple things that most small or medium sized businesses can integrate into their own business, just so they have an idea of where the people who are paying them money are largely coming from. And I don't mean every site they've visited over the past 20 years. Jay: Sure, sure. David: I mean, where did they hear from us most recently? Did they hear about us from the podcast? Did they hear about us from an email broadcast that went out through an email broadcast platform? If so, which one? If there is some sort of ad, which ad did they click on? There are some ads that we run on some websites where there's an ad at the top of the page, there's an ad on the side of the page. The ads say different things. We track those separately so we know which message and which ad. Does the top position get more of a response? Does the side position get more of a response? Because that tells us where to focus our attention on getting more people. And a lot of it, in the early stages especially, is just about seeing where the people are basically coming from. But then when you see who's actually buying, that narrows it down even more. Jay: Yes. David: Because you may be getting more leads from one source than another, but you find out that the leads from that source aren't converting. Jay: Yes. David: At which point you can stop advertising there and put your money behind the ads that work. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And when I mentioned how easy it is today, I even mean for small businesses. I mean, we started a small business and I don't know anything about pay per click or, you know, anything like that. But I looked on Fiverr, you know, the website, Fiverr and Upwork, and I found somebody who said, I'll do this for you for a month for 30 bucks and I'm like, it's 30 bucks. I'll try it out. We did the $30 and the results were dramatic. So we're like, wait a minute, if we do 30, let's do 60. Now we've got this guy we spend about maybe 250 a month with him, and we get constant leads that convert from him. I don't know how he's doing it and I don't need to know how he's doing it. Right? Now I can spend my time focusing on those leads. The other thing he'll do is come back and say, okay, you've got a lot of people who are landing on your checkout page, but they're not converting. So we're like, "oh, wait a minute, what's going on?" Is it the language we're using? Is it the pictures we're using? Are we not conveying the message? These things can be done for relatively cheap nowadays, and so even if you're at the smallest point, I would definitely try some of those things. David: Yeah, it's simple enough to be able to at least get an idea of where most people are coming from to be able to go back and get more. And obviously, we're talking quite a bit about online, but there are a lot of offline sources. If you do networking, you go to networking functions, you may find that one networking function does much better than another. You may find that you go to one particular networking function and you don't get any leads from it. You go back again and again and again, and you're not getting leads. Everybody's just schmoozing. That happens a lot in business. Jay: Yeah. David: Particularly in B2B. Well, B2C as well. So in those situations you can make determinations if you're keeping track of it. But very many small businesses in particular will just go out, go to some sort of networking function or go to something that's supposed to generate business, and they use that as an excuse like, "I'm doing something." But if you go out to something like that and you're not going out there with the idea of coming back with leads that you can follow up on, it's really just a waste of time. So there's a focus aspect to this. There's an online versus offline aspect to this. But ultimately what it boils down to is the subject of this podcast. Where are your best leads coming from? Jay: Yeah. David: Where can I go to find more? Jay: Yeah, and I see this a lot and I've been a victim of it. Movement for the sake of movement. You know? I'm doing something, I'm going to these networking events. Going to these shows. Placing these ads. So when is it going to start working? Movement for the sake of movement is of no value. Right? There has to be some intent. It has to be trackable. It has to be adjustable. And I think it's so easy to fall into that trap of "I'm doing something!" And so, where's the result? David: Yeah, it reminds me of that Zig Ziglar quote, "Don't look for your ship to come in if you haven't sent one out." Jay: Yeah. David: And very often we're trying to do things that are generating results. We talked about goal setting in a previous podcast, and a lot of times we're so focused on the goal,...

To grow the value of your business, consider this. If your business burns down, you've got whatever... desks, furniture and things like that. That stuff's all insured. You should be able to come back from that okay. But if your book of business burns down, right? If you still have all this overhead, but you don't have that book of business anymore, you are really in trouble. Because if you have desks, and furniture, and technology but you don't have the ability to sell to the people that you need to sell to, what's that really worth? All of that is just overhead. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing building the value of your business. Welcome back Jay. Jay: Hey, I'm so glad to be here, David. Once again, you hit me with another term, Do I really know what the value of my business is? And value has such a different meaning for so many, right? Value could be. Well, it gives me free time. I hate my business, but it gives me free time. So it's of great value. Or it's of great value because I have all these shiny toys, you know, those types of things. So I think value could be very different for different people. David: Yeah, it absolutely can. Particularly when we're thinking about business owners versus salespeople. When I think about business value, I mean what is it worth to someone else if they wanted to buy it from you. For a business owner, what would someone actually pay for the business? For a salesperson, what is your book of business worth? If you're building something up and somebody wanted to buy your book of business, what would that be worth? That's what I was thinking of in terms of value. But you touched on a lot of other great points regarding the term. Jay: Yeah, like I said, there's so many other things. I've talked to people who have said, yeah, I'm thinking about selling my business. And I ask them, well, what's it worth? They often look at me like I have no idea whatsoever. In fact, I was working for Kinko's way back when, when they wanted to sell. And they wanted to go public first, and the SEC came in and said, you don't know what you own. You don't know what you owe. You don't know anything about your business. And you have the worst paperwork system we've ever seen in our lives. You're not going public. And so they went and found a private buyer, which was FedEx, who went and bought FedEx Kinko's. So just in how you manage your business can affect the value of that business. David: Yeah, absolutely. And for a lot of people, the value of their business isn't going to be FedEx Kinko's worthy, very likely. Jay: Yeah. David: But still, it's good to know. And, for some it might be worth more than that. But for most people, particularly small to medium sized businesses, when they're looking to sell, they really don't have any idea of what the business is worth or what it could be worth to someone else. And in different industries, there are different metrics and multipliers that people use. They say, okay, well, we're going to take a multiple of your net value. In other words, what is, bottom line, after owner's compensation and things like that. They have a number of different metrics that people use. But in a lot of cases, that's what it boils down to. What's it likely to be worth to someone else? Glen Holt was a professional in the promotional products industry for a long time. He was one of my mentors in the early days. I remember him saying that when people are looking to buy a business, what they're really paying for is the likelihood of future business. Because the only way I want to spend a dime on a business is if I know it's going to generate a high multiple of that over a period of time. Whether it's two years or five years, or seven years or ten years, whatever that multiple ends up being. At some point I know that I'm going to be able to recoup my investment and make more going forward. Jay: Yeah, exactly. Maybe you envision running this business forever and then you hand it off to your kids and their kids. But a lot of parents find out their kids don't want the business. So it's not easy to offload it that way. But I like the idea of even if you're never considering running your business, things happen. Right? Medical things happen. Emergencies happen. You may find yourself someday saying, "I don't want to sell. But I have to sell because of my circumstances." So I think always running your business in a way that if you had to sell, you'd have your numbers in line. You've built your value, you have a clientele. I think that may be just a good mindset. David: Yeah. It's also a good mindset if you think about the fact that some people don't want to sell their businesses. That's perfectly fine. But the thing that you have to realize is that if you don't sell your business, then who bought it? You did, right? Jay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. David: You bought it with your time, your energy, your effort, all the hours that you put into it. So it's good to be able to say, "okay, I know what I've put into this." If you even get a value of what it might be worth to someone else, you can say, "would I be willing to pay that for this business?" Right? Or the amount of time and energy and effort that I put in, would I want it to be worth more than that? So I think it's a good metric to know from our own standpoint in terms of what's the business worth or what's the book of business worth to someone else. But also how am I doing in terms of what I was hoping to build when I started out? Jay: Yeah, that's a good question. What were you expecting to build and where are you now and what more can you do? I think there's also some sticker shock when you think your business is worth one thing and someone comes in and says, "oh, I think it's worth half that." You're like, "wait a minute, this is my baby! I built this thing. It has to be worth more than that." David: Right, but there are metrics that you can use to make those determinations. And chances are, if you go to sell your business, somebody's going to tell you they think it's worth less than you do. But that's where you have to make a determination as well and say, "okay, well look, if you were to buy this business, in three and a half years, you would be able to get your money back even if you just maintain it," right? So, and if they say, "well, I only want to pay, you know, a year's worth," then you can say, "all right, well we probably don't have a fit here," or whatever. But as long as you've got the metrics to back it up, to say, okay, we're doing this amount of sales after our costs, we're doing this amount. If you take out what the owner's being compensated, then this is what you would have left at the end of each year. And then you use that as some sort of multiple to say. Is it two years? Is it three years? Three and a half, five, seven, whatever you can get. Now, there are some companies, particularly in the tech space, and particularly if they're recurring revenue companies, that they can sell for high multiples of what they're bringing in each year. It just depends on what people feel that it's worth and also, what they think they'll be able to do with it. Because if somebody has a book of business and they're selling whatever, a quarter million, half a million dollars a year, I'm talking about a salesperson and they want to retire. If they were to sell their book of business to someone else, and that person was going to look at it and say, well, I think I can probably maintain that for a certain number of years. Then they would value it based on that. If they looked at it and said, I think I can do twice what this guy's doing with this book of business, then they might value it higher. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: So a lot of it has to do with the person that you are looking to potentially sell to as well. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And I also think just some of the more simpler things like staffing, you know, who's running the place when you're not there? What does the place look like? Is the equipment updated? Because, you know, that's what I'm thinking. Am I going to have to come in here and update all of this equipment? Will I have ongoing capital costs? Am I going to have all of these things? You may think you're saving a dollar now, but if you do have to sell, it's really going to hurt yourself in the long run. David: Yeah, and we didn't even really talk about things like that because it depends on the kind of business that you have. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: If you've got a lot of overhead, if you've got furniture, fixtures, real estate, all those types of things, those are all going to play into it. I was really thinking more in terms of small businesses or a book of business that a salesperson has, where it's primarily their book of business that they're selling. Because in those situations, when people buy businesses too, they very often prefer to do an asset sale. They only want to buy assets of the business so that if there were any potential issues with the business before, if somebody was going to try to sue the business or whatever, that wouldn't potentially come with a sale. So they'd say, "I just want to buy certain assets. I want to buy your customer base. Maybe I want to buy certain furniture and fixtures. I want to take along certain employees." So they can sort of cherry pick the things that they want to buy from the business. But I don't want to get too much into the weeds on this. I think for anyone who has been considering the idea of, okay, what is my business or my book of business worth? What do I need to look at? And so some of it would be to say, okay, what type of clients do I have? Do I have a base of high value clients? People who spend money with me consistently? Because if I do, that's going to be worth a whole lot more than if I'm g