Zero To Travel Podcast

Michael Shanks 0:00
You can live in a place and think you knew it, but actually realize you really don't know it at all. Because you may be driven through an area or you've got the train through an area. But that doesn't mean the same as actually being in it.

Jason Moore 0:11
That was a clip from my guest today, Michael shanks. I love that Scottish accent and how did he get to know his home city of Glasgow? Well, he ran every single street, all of Glasgow 6110 streets, he ran them, which was an incredible quest, and a lot of lessons coming from this experience, you'll hear the inspiration behind his quest, how it all started, and why he did it. What surprised him about his home city of Glasgow and some of the most interesting parts of his mission, the funny thing that happened when his run ended, how this experience changed his life, and why it's something we can all do. And this is also a reminder for me about the things we can accomplish in our spare time, even with a full time job or a full time career. Michael is a teacher, and he did this in his spare time. So get ready to pull out some useful, practical lessons that you can take with you. After this show. I'm also going to talk about my recent trip to America, why it was dominated by the three apps, find out what those are. And I want to give a shout out to a listener in this community who's using a springboard to take himself from one style of travel to the next in what I believe is a really nice, smooth way. So I want to give him a shout out. You also hear why you can truly truly have a travel experience in your own backyard and so much more. It's all happening right now. So buckle up strap in. Thanks for being here and welcome to the zero to travel podcast, my friend.

ad 1:59
You're listening to the zero to travel Podcast where we explore exciting travel based work, lifestyle and business opportunities helping you to achieve your wildest travel dreams. Now your host proved wonder and travel junkie Jason Moore.

Jason Moore 2:17
Hey there, it's Jason weds your travel.com Welcome to the show. Thanks for hanging out. Let him bring a little travel into your ears today. This is the show to help you travel the world on your terms to fill your life. With as much travel as you desire. No matter what your situation or experience. I want to take a moment to welcome new listeners. And if you're back and your longtime listener, welcome back, you can always get in touch Chase net zero to travel.com is my email address. And I have a voicemail box where you can easily leave me a message no email required or anything like that. Just click on the link and leave a message. In fact, I got one recently from a listener in this community who has found I think a nice runway to two different travel lifestyles and I want to share why I think this is such a great idea. So you're going to hear His message in one moment. First,

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Max 7:21
money out from here in Perth, Western Australia. My name is Max, I'm just out of my morning walk. So I'm sorry if it's a little bit windy. But in about a month in three days, I said sets out. I've got tickets over to Europe, where I spend about three months, between three and six months on a holiday. Then after that I've been listening to your podcasts. And I think that trying to move to a digital nomad life is the way for me. experiencing different places for extended periods of time, new cultures, and learning to find that in cheap locations is sort of my plan. Just listen to your top 10 Like cheapest destinations. I'm not sure if it was top 10. Anyway, Mexico City sounds amazing. South America was on my mind. I just thought I'd reach out. And so to let you know that it's super inspiring. Are you talking about that I can't wait to get involved. Thank you.

Jason Moore 8:18
Thank you, Max, for sharing what you have going on. So excited for you. And I think this is a wonderful way to transition to two different travel lifestyles, right? Certainly being on holiday. Having that total freedom is much different than having the responsibility of work while you travel and slow traveling versus maybe traveling a little quicker depending on how he does it. But I do think that the way he's doing this where he's starting off by going on a holiday first and then moving to this more remote work digital nomad lifestyle is smart. It can give you time to think when you're traveling right, you have that time to think time to just experience the world without the responsibilities and time to grow. Which we all do when we're traveling. And it doesn't mean you stop that growth when you start traveling and working at the same time. But I think having a holiday first just gives you a little bit of a buffer and maybe can help you decide how you want to move into that next phase of travel, have the travel lifestyle, and maybe be a little bit more intentional about what you might want and where you might want to spend some time after you've had time to go around and do a lot of things you might have more clarity around where you want to slow down and spend more time and there are a lot of other benefits as well. But I just like this idea of using that as a way to transition like I said a runway to go from one way To travel to the next and I'm always looking for an excuse to go on holiday aid. I mean, if we need another one, there's another one right I'm going to use this as a transition. I'm gonna go on holiday, just slowly make my way to this next version of my travel lifestyle. So just some food for thought there mostly just wanted to say thanks for leaving the message Max, and wanted to share this story with you. I love sharing stories from listeners and letting you all get to hear from each other so we can all grow together. This is a community powered show. These messages inspire me and I love to share them. So check in if you haven't done so Jason at zero to travel.com. Leave me a voicemail. Just say hi. Let me know what kind of guests you want me to bring on if you have any recommendations. So two way conversation and please, if you haven't done so, sign up over at zero to travel.com. It's a free newsletter, you'll get a an exclusive audio file right now I'm giving away my top three ways to save money for travel. Would love to welcome me into the online newsletter community over there. Now let's slip and slide into the interview segment. Don't forget to stick around for the various things I mentioned. We'll also share a little bit about my trip to the USA recently. And leave you with a quote to wrap this up. Enjoy this interview with Michael and I will see you on the other side my friend

Michael Shanks Welcome to the zero travel podcast my friend sipping on some tea over there in Scotland. Is that what that's what you guys do tea right?

Michael Shanks 11:36
Yeah, no, it's coffee is definitely coffee. It's been a long day. Yeah.

Jason Moore 11:40
You're a teacher.

Michael Shanks 11:41
Yeah, I'm a high school teacher. So every day is a long day, to be fair, but it's really sunny here, which is unusual for Scotland and it somehow drives the kids a little bit hyper. So it's been quite a day.

Jason Moore 11:53
Well, you know, some of these students might listen to this, they're gonna be like, Mr. Shank said, Every day is a long day with us. Come on, man, give us a break.

Michael Shanks 12:01
I've never heard before.

Jason Moore 12:04
How long have you been teaching?

Michael Shanks 12:06
So teaching was a kind of new thing for me. I changed careers about three years ago now. So I turned 30 and changed career. I previously worked in Parliament at Westminster, and then the Scottish Parliament. And then I worked for a charity working with young people involved in offending. So this was like, kind of a new avenue to go down.

Jason Moore 12:29
Yeah, what are we doing in Parliament? Were you a politician? Or were you part of

Michael Shanks 12:33
No, I was the guy behind the politician making sure that you know, the they were saying the right thing.

Jason Moore 12:40
PR type of thing. Yeah, that

Michael Shanks 12:43
sort of thing. research, write a bit of speeches, all that stuff,

Jason Moore 12:46
speech writer. Okay. And now we're getting into it. What kind of drew to speech writing or that role in the first place? And then why did you leave?

Michael Shanks 12:55
Well, I think I've always had a bit of an interest in politics and studied at university. And I think, particularly when you're in your early 20s, working in a place like that is quite exciting. And then you sort of realize, it's not that exciting. And you're not, you're not necessarily achieving as much as you think you're achieving. But you're, you're doing loads of work. And that at a certain point, that gets a bit frustrating. So I've decided to move into the charity sector, and got a brilliant job working with a fantastic charity, that supports young people that have kind of been left behind by a lot of other support services and professionals and things like that, and works really hard to, to turn their lives around really like to help them to find their own laser. So I worked as a communications manager for them for four or five years.

Jason Moore 13:43
So just coming out of more of the the personal want to sort of like make a difference in another way, I suppose. And then teaching. Obviously, I just want to give props to all the teachers out there. You you included, of course, because I mean, teachers make such a positive impact on the world, generally speaking, right? I mean, I think most people can point back to at least a teacher or two that somehow changed their lives in a specific way. I was thinking about for me, it's like Mrs. Gallagher in fifth grade when she came back from her trip to Ireland, and she was talking all about and showing pictures and I was just my mind was blown. And I think right then and there I kind of caught the travel bug I didn't even know I didn't get to go anywhere for many years after that, at least out of the country. So mad props to you just for bringing up the youth

Michael Shanks 14:31
is a fantastic career and for all the you know, like any any job there are days and moments of these where you think you know what the hell am I doing this? But that nine times out of 10 I remember that just absolutely love that job. And I think I teach a subject which you might not know of course, it's a peculiarly Scottish subject called modern studies, which I genuinely think every single child in the world should should learn but it's a combination of politics. Aren't fears but also learning about some of the kind of systemic issues like poverty and inequality? And why are some people in the world rich and some people are not rich? And, and crucially for just now learning about things like, how can you trust the media source? You know, what makes something reliable? Can you identify fake news and teaching them the skills. So it's, I think it's the best subject in the world. And what's great about it is you never fully know what you're going to talk about every week, you can have a set of lessons planned. And then all of a sudden, you're talking about Ukraine and Russia and all sorts of other things in that I find that everything will be I find fascinating.

Jason Moore 15:39
Wow. Okay, so what what is, what do you teach? How should we vet the media so to speak? Well,

Michael Shanks 15:47
I mean, the trick is, we need to try and teach them the skills so they can do it themselves. Because, you know, I'm incredibly careful. And all modern studies, teachers are to not be biased ourselves. Which is difficult sometimes, actually. Because you have got to make sure even things that you really disagree with politically, you're not passing that on to the kids. But it's teaching them the skills of looking at you know, as a as a source up to date has it got any evidence was just someone's opinion. And that's particularly in the Tick Tock age. I think they look at stuff on tick tock and, and they just assume it's fact particularly, there's a lot of stuff coming out with Ukraine, that's really, really good on tick tock. But there's a lot of rubbish. That's just videos from a whole other wars that are captioned with Ukraine, and people just accept it as fact. So it's trying to give them the skills to pick out your what's truth, and what's what's just made up.

Jason Moore 16:39
That's tough to do nowadays, isn't it kind of digital enhancing and some of the technology that exist it's, it's not an easy thing missus isn't just important for your students is really important, I think for everybody. And it sounds like a lot of this is starting with critical thinking. Is that right? Just kind of teaching people to think critically and to

Michael Shanks 17:00
absolutely to ask questions, which is, you know, a great thing in my subject is, it's all about ask questions, tell me what you're thinking, let's discuss this, let's debate this. But I think given them that critical literacy skills to sort of say, well, that doesn't quite add up, because I know this from another source, and you're saying something totally different than just let equipping them with the skills to go out into the world and do it for themselves. So

Jason Moore 17:24
it must be satisfying when you're teaching something that's near and dear to your heart or something he knows important. And then you look over and you see, you know, a set of eyes kind of like get it and her just like something clicks? And you're like, All right, yeah.

Michael Shanks 17:36
And I think I always think when they ask questions that, you know, they'll kind of put their hand up and they'll say, sorry, this isn't really related to what we're talking about. But and then they ask a question. And they think it's a kind of silly question. But actually, it's quite often a really, really pertinent question that's really linked to what we are talking about. And I always find that really interesting. I think kids who are curious is just the most amazing thing. I love it. They have a curiosity about learning. That's a fantastic thing.

Jason Moore 18:06
Well, it sounds like a lot of your work. Leading up to where you're at today was really more of the in person type of thing. You weren't like in an office sitting in a computer, I guess, for speech writing or doing that. But it sounds like there was a lot of interaction and social type stuff going on. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm guessing during the pandemic, or during the lockdown, because you guys had a pretty severe lock downs for COVID. Right. And I know, this was the sort of the genesis of your, of what we're going to talk about today. So I'm wondering if like just kind of teaching online and things like that sort of drove you to, to this, or I guess we should start give everybody just the the sentence or two overview of what you've done. And then we can get into the specifics of kind of some of the why behind it.

Michael Shanks 18:54
Okay, I sentence of two, you're really challenging me.

Jason Moore 18:57
I mean, you know what, yeah, let me you but yeah, just just break it down for us.

Michael Shanks 19:01
I mean, I think essentially, because this week is two years since since Boris Johnson, their esteemed Prime Minister went on television and told us all we couldn't leave the house. And that I think, we were talking about this today in school. Actually, I think we forget just how big our moment that was to be told in peacetime that you could not leave your house. Apart from these four essential reasons. And it led to an incredible kind of atmosphere of, I remember going for a walk, I live in a tenement flat, which is a Glasgow kind of block of flats that don't have any gardens. But we've got loads of parks in Glasgow, which is amazing. And I remember really early on in London, go for a walk, sitting on a park bench and someone came along and said, You're not allowed to sit on a park bench that's against lockdown rules. And people really had this culture of we were really, really policing ourselves really strictly at the time around stuff like this. And I think we kind of forget that because the subsequent lockdown Were disruptive, but they were nowhere near what that first four or five, six months was like. But the one thing that started this off was you weren't allowed to leave your house once a day to exercise. And that became my kind of kind of freedom, I suppose. And I don't mean that in a kind of over the top way, but it was like you just came out your house, and you could kind of go and do something that wasn't essential shopping, or stuck working from home, teaching from home was a real real challenge for both us and the kids. Because the thing you love as a teacher is that interaction, and you just didn't get that online. So that was really tough. So I'm really started to make use of that one exercise that they. And I suppose that's far more than two sentences, Jason, so sorry about that. But what that turned into then was trying to run every single street in Glasgow, which is a bit of a leap from exercise, I don't wear a day to running every street in Glasgow, but that's how it started.

Jason Moore 21:02
Right? And that's really something I call a quest in a way over 6000 streets, how many miles is that, by the way.

Unknown Speaker 21:11
So essentially, if you were to just measure the roads themselves, it's just over 1000 kilometers, so 1130 kilometers. But when you start looking at what the streets are, you can't run 1130 kilometers, because inevitably, you have to run several of them multiple times. And whenever you get to a dead end street, you've got to run it twice. So it ended up being double that.

Jason Moore 21:41
Wow, were you pretty fit before you did this.

Michael Shanks 21:46
I've always thought I'm not totally unfit. But I'm not. I'm not a runner in any kind of, you know, when I was doing stuff on the media on this afterwards, people kept saying, amateur athlete, Michael Shanks, and I was like, I wouldn't even put the word amateur. They know an athlete, just don't even use the word athlete. And the atmosphere doesn't make it any more accurate. Like I really, really enjoy running, I find that a real escape from things. You really like mind Cleator. And I'm not I will never be any records and anything. But I do really enjoy going for a run. So that that's kind of the that's why I wanted to do.

Jason Moore 22:25
Did you wear headphones and listen to music and stuff like that? Or were you always just fair without Yeah, and

Michael Shanks 22:30
I never really listened to music. And partly with this as well, I realized quite early on. Because you're running down the streets that no one would normally run down. I would normally get to the end of a street or something and then look at my phone and figure out where to go next and then turn around and people would be in the garden or whatever sort of looking as if to say, what's this guy up to? Why is he running down here? Are you deer people saying, you know, are you lost? You know, and it started up conversations. And it ended up that became something I tried to really encourage when I was out was talking to people in all these different places. So I really wanted to be present as much as possible in the in the run. So no, I didn't have any headphones on.

Jason Moore 23:10
Yeah, and I should mention your site again, every Glasgow st.com will link to that, or you get the photos there and some of the story behind it. And I definitely encourage everybody to check that out. I have some questions around the travel aspects of this and your local hometown or your local adopted hometown, I should say because you didn't you didn't grow up in Glasgow. Correct?

Michael Shanks 23:32
No, I grew up with a Scottish scene didn't the water is this is the same but I grew up down the coast a little bit where Glaswegians used to get the boat in the summer down to the seaside out of the smoky city in the Victorian era. That's where I grew up. So I moved to Glasgow when I was a student, so about 15 years ago,

Jason Moore 23:54
okay. It's no small thing to kind of commit to this. So I think it was easy to kind of look back now and say, Okay, well, look, yeah, you did this, and you were on this mission. But along the way, did you ever think like, were you telling people about this? How did you sort of stay accountable with it? Was it just your own drive? Or do you ever think of just kind of, well, I mean, I've I've run 3000 streets like I've seen enough of the city, you know what I mean? Like, I've just wonder, I just want to get kind of an idea of like, What drove you? Was it one of these things? Like once you started, you just couldn't stop and it became sort of,

Michael Shanks 24:29
I think it definitely did. I mean, originally, it wasn't organized at all, and there was no ambition because there wasn't even the idea of running every street in Glasgow to begin with. I just realized I was leaving my eyes and I was basically running the same route to get to a really nice park that's near me running around the park, looking at the ducks running all the way back. And that was it. And I think we all kind of are creatures of habits with things like that. We maybe add in a little street here or there, but generally we just run around the same place so we walk around the center This. So I started running random streets in between just because I've never been down those streets before. And then I came across Ricky Gates, who is an athlete. And the actual definition of this, who had basically done the same in San Francisco, but had properly recorded at all. And by that point, when I looked at all the sheets, I had run, I was already at about 20%, just by luck. And so I thought, well, I might as well just have a go at this. But in the early stages, I didn't really tell anybody, apart from friends and family that they already kind of knew I would do something as mad as this. They weren't massively surprised. But I thought I want to try and get to 50%. Before I tell anybody else, because it might just not be possible. It may just be far too difficult thing. And there's no point starting it. And then, you know, saying I haven't got past 50%, then I got to halfway. And I thought, well, I might as well know make this a bit more public and have a bit of fun shooting pictures and things like that. So

Jason Moore 26:01
how long did it take?

Michael Shanks 26:05
It like two years, basically. Slightly less than that. I finished in January of this year, so so maybe about 18 months?

Jason Moore 26:14
How did you find time to do it on the side? I mean, it sounds like this is probably your main side job. So to speak. I'm using air quotes. But did you like run to the far side of the city? Or would you drive somewhere and then run a bunch of streets? How did you?

Michael Shanks 26:27
Yeah, so that was the there was a point at which I realized I can keep running from my house because it was getting to the stage. So I live in the west end of the city. Quite a lot of streets read about the Syriac, it's quite a crowded, densely populated area. So that was easy. Then I started doing the kind of extreme west of the city. And I was realizing I was running like eight kilometers to get to the start of the run that I had to do that day and then running eight kilometers back. And I was like, this is just not sustainable. I'm running like 30 kilometers to do five streets. So I did, I had to start trying to use public transport as much as possible. So I would SCOTUS was got a fairly good rail network, although not that good. Or we've got an underground as well. And I was trying to get the transport to somewhere and then run home. But even that started to become just impossible. So yeah, I had to start driving to places barking up and doing a run. And then when lockdown MD, then went back to work, the challenge was trying to fit it in our own work, particularly in Scotland, it gets dark at half past three, four o'clock in the winter, I don't finish work until 24. So I was going out into areas I've never been in before and running around in the dark. And that wasn't particularly enjoyable. So the logistics ended up being be quite a big deal, actually.

Jason Moore 27:45
I mean, you must have used the line and at some point your students sorry, guys gotta run. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm really

Michael Shanks 27:54
just after halfway, one of the television channels here find out about it and came and filmed me to say that I was halfway through this challenge. So of course, by that point, there was no going back, I had to finish with that. And all my students who I spend most of the week saying, please watch the news, please watch the news. And they all say, Oh, we don't have time for the news. They all came in and said we saw you on the news last night. So at that point, there was no going back from it. They all knew what I was up to. So

Jason Moore 28:22
I'm sure you inspired some of them as you inspired me, which is why I reached out in the first place. I wanted to hear what surprised you about Glasgow.

Michael Shanks 28:32
Yeah. So Glasgow is a fascinating city and a city with a complex history. It's got a history of was named the second city of the British Empire for a long time. At one point, nearly all the ships that sailed were built in Glasgow, it's got a huge industrial history. But then an equally huge industrial decline. And a city that has struggled for a very long time with poverty and with health inequalities. It has a reputation as a result of that, particularly communities in Glasgow that have extremely undeserved reputations that have persisted for a really long time. Glasgow was the murder capital of Europe for a long time, and hasn't been for for more than a decade, but still holds that image. And I think the most interesting for me was I knew that wasn't the city that I lived in, but I'd never really explored most of the city. You can live in a place and think you know it, but actually realize you really don't know at all, because you've maybe driven through an area or you've got the train through an area but that doesn't mean the same as actually being in it. So the most dangerous thing for me was just exploring these communities, places in the east end of Glasgow in particular, like Easter house that was built after the war, when the slum housing was was cleared after the war and all these people were moved out to the periphery of the city to this new build town. But it was a new build town that had nothing really it had no jobs and very few transport links, and quickly became synonymous with with crime and with drugs and, and these are problems that still persist. But actually, it's also a place that's been reborn. And it's been rebuilt and a real sense of community as well. And it was some of those places that I had some of the nicest conversations with people, it was the only place someone ever offered me a drink, which was nice. And you're running down the streets that people would really quickly think offers, or this is quite a rough area, let's get out of here quickly, actually had some really, really warm people living in it, who were curious about what was up to and stood and chatted in a way that actually some of the more affluent parts of the city just didn't do, which is like your walk right past. So that for me was that was the most interesting part. Because I think as well as the running adventure, I'm also really into social history and politics, obviously, but you know, how these people live. And that side of it has been really interesting as well.

Jason Moore 31:02
Yeah, I'm sure with modern studies, I mean, you're on the ground to kind of boots on the ground with that mindset. having these conversations, being a part of these neighborhoods, and maybe seeing how things may be represented in culture or on media or society, or certain parts of a city and then actually being there and experiencing it is,

Michael Shanks 31:21
mean, those are the thing we teach in modern studies, which is, if you there's parts of the city, and there's a train line that goes all the way from the city center, through some of our most deprived areas, then through some of our most affluent areas, and on that train journey, your life expect to the second almost half, from one part of the city to another. And we teach that and actually running through those communities and meeting some of those people you can, you can appreciate it a little bit more than the challenges that they face. But also I think people kept asking me in television interviews afterwards, what's the worst street you ran through, you know, there must be a street that you run really fast to get off. And I've kind of resisted ever. I mean, there were streets that I hated, but not not for any particular reason. I kind of resisted answering that. Because I do think Glasgow has this unfair reputation. And I think it's really important that people try and explain the other side of Glasgow as well, the kind of future of the city as well, I suppose.

Jason Moore 32:20
What did you learn about the residents,

Michael Shanks 32:23
I mean, lots of different things I had. So I'm trying to write a book, which has taken me a long time. So it'll take me longer than the run, probably, but part of it is the thread of the book is me running through places, but the stories are actually people I met along the way, and then a bit of actual kind of researched history of that street or, or that local area. And I met some really, really interesting people who, you know, had lived in the same street through multiple different, like different The house has been built, then demolished, then built again, then demolished again. And they've lived in all these different versions of social housing. And are people just really proud to show me bits of the park? One woman I met in a cemetery, who I asked her for directions, and then she was like, Are you the guy that's running all the streets. And it just started out, there's, there's great conversation. I can't count the number of times I got to the end of a street, and obviously didn't really know where it was going next. And people would just say, that's the boy running on the streets. And as a 34 year old, I'm quite happy to still be called boy. Really nice. I mean, guys, good does have the stereotype as well, you know, a very friendly city, particularly compared to Edinburgh, which is the city on the other side, that's, you know, they are meant to not be friendly. And we are meant to be friends. I don't know how true that is. But it is true in a sense that I had some fantastic conversations with people just just randomly striking up asking questions and whatever.

Jason Moore 33:50
Does the city in the community feel bigger to you or smaller now,

Michael Shanks 33:54
you know, it's really interesting, because Glasgow is the only city in Europe that has a motorway right through the middle of it, you know, built in the 60s that just divides the city, this huge 678 Lane motorway. And people when they're navigating around the city, often navigate by the motorway. So you jump on the motorway, and you you get off at junction 12 or whatever. And I think that creates real divisions in communities within the city. It divides up people's natural kind of community. And what was quite nice about running was I realized, you don't need to go on the motorway that that connects to there are there's a lovely lane that links that whole housing development to this housing development that didn't know was there before. So I think the thing I don't know whether it's bigger or smaller, but I think I definitely learned it's still a city that has really distinct communities that you could easily live in like a farm look in the north and not really think of yourself as part of the city. You just live in this area or loads of little districts that are almost little cities in themselves.

Jason Moore 35:02
So it's hard to say bigger or smaller.

Unknown Speaker 35:06
I mean, I think the other thing is every so often I would look at the whole map, because I kind of just focused on the bits I wanted to do next. And then I would zoom out and I'd be like, Holy hell, I've actually like run all like it, when you see it on a map is actually massive. But at the time, I didn't really realize that I was just running these little chunks at a time.

Jason Moore 35:28
Well, what surprised you about yourself? Or what did you learn about yourself?

Michael Shanks 35:32
Well, I think quite a few things. I think that on a practical level, I think I've actually realized that since rather than during having a challenge like that is actually really, really good to keep you focused on something that you enjoy. It's incredibly easy for us, even things we actually enjoy to just push them out in favor of work or other things. And I think even during lockdown when people initially had all this time to you know, everyone was making bread or catching up with old friends on Zoom midnight, but that quickly frittered away quite quickly, and people became, you know, addicted to their work again, and their time was taken up by other things. I think what I quite liked about this was, I had to make time, basically every single day to do this. And actually something I really, really enjoyed too. But I've really learned that lesson more since then, because since then, I've been really bad at going out and running. Since I finished I've just just not really been doing it. So I need something else next.

Jason Moore 36:38
Is there going to be something else next? Are you thinking about something?

Michael Shanks 36:42
I don't know. I'm doing these random themed runs at the moment. So we've got these old police boxes all over the city that are like the TARDIS the Doctor Who. So the other day, I just decided I would just run round all of these tar disease all over the city. So I'm just picking these random themes or running around every football stadium in the city or?

Jason Moore 37:04
Yeah, I see on your website that you mentioned, there are some people reaching out that have also started exploring their local area, too. Can you tell me about that, and how that feels for you?

Unknown Speaker 37:17
Yeah, I mean, honestly, that was the nicest thing to come from all the media attention that got I mean, I was really, really surprised there. Were not many people interested in the story at all,

Jason Moore 37:29
though, you weren't doing this for a PR thing, anything,

Michael Shanks 37:32
absolutely nothing to see people who trend on Twitter. And underneath that they've got their SoundCloud, they've got absolutely nothing to offer. But I think it probably got attention, because it was at that time where there was another variant of COVID. And, you know, it was a story that didn't involve death and destruction. And that was probably quite a good thing. But it was really, really nice to see people emailing just to say, I read your piece, or I saw the video, me and my husband have started walking the dog in different streets every day, or we've got a map and we've started coloring in all the various parts of our town that we've explored. My own mum has started walking every single street in her town, which is a she bought a map and started coloring it and so but it's it's really nice to see particularly the small things because I think running every single shoot in Glasgow was was obviously a massive undertaking that a lot of people just don't have the time to do and things like that. So understand that. But people seeing like, I live in this little town that's got 500 streets, but you've given me some some encouragement to just go and see bits of it that we've never been on. That felt amazing, actually. Yeah,

Jason Moore 38:42
sure. I mean, you go out to do this thing, and it's this personal quest, but then it inspires people and then you start hearing the stories. I mean, nothing, nothing beats that. Right. I mean, your mom is out there exploring for that's, that's pretty amazing. Yeah.

Michael Shanks 38:59
I think he's well, she's trying to beat my my time to do it. So. No, it's great. And I think I've not spoken to Ricky gets directly but I think he was interviewed for one of the pieces on me. The the BBC phoned him up and interviewed him. And he said, it felt amazing to him that there were literally 1000s of people now doing this all over the world because the city strains website, which I can't recommend highly enough. That was the thing that kind of gave me the accountability, it tracked all my runs. If you look on it, virtually every city in the world has got people running it everywhere. That is mapped in the world. And that's remarkable, really that that people have gotten to that.

Jason Moore 39:45
I see this Okay, yeah, I had not heard about this. So this was the main resource for you city strides and that's how you were able to map all this and figure it out.

Michael Shanks 39:53
Yeah, so it does all the hard work for you. So you sign up to it through Strava or Garmin or whatever. You do your run And then it just automatically syncs to the map, and tells you how many streets you've got left. So it only works on cities that have got really clear boundaries. So in Scotland, that's not very many because our cities are quite vague in terms of what counts as the city and what doesn't. But Glasgow is is a local authority and its own right. So it's got quite a clear map.

Jason Moore 40:21
What did you think about all the media stuff afterwards that

Michael Shanks 40:26
well, the actual last day was was really, really strange, because I'd left George Square which is the very center of Glasgow where the city council building as and everything I'd left that to last, so I could finish there. And I told a journalist from STV, who had been fantastic and had followed me from the halfway point onwards, I told her about it. And then somebody the BBC found out so they came along. And then I had a friend wait and, and George Square, my whole family had COVID. So none of them could show up, which was was pretty gutting. Our whole Christmas had been disrupted by COVID, and things, so none of them could be there. But my friend came along with a wee boy, and I was texting are seeing I'm nearly nearly around the corner, and I turned the corner, and there's just this bank of cameras all clicking away. I don't know how many television accounts, I was like, I wasn't expecting anybody to be there at all. And then of course, that wasn't good enough for them also then had to get me to fake run the last bit again, so it looked more professional. Oh, it was just ridiculous. But it was it was interesting as well, particularly for someone who's like, I spent a while, like giving the light into a politician to see on camera. Right now it was me giving the line and

Jason Moore 41:45
what was the line? Yeah,

Michael Shanks 41:47
I mean, well, they all ask the same questions. You know, why? Which is a reasonable question that I'll be honest, I never really came up with a particularly good answer for him. And then the only only really ever wants to know was what was the best street and what was the worst Street? And those were two questions that I don't really have an answer for.

Jason Moore 42:05
I'm not going to ask those questions. So you don't need to worry here. You know, what I love is that you can take this video of you fake running the end and show it to your modern studies students and be like, Hey, guys, here's a perfect example of why you should be skeptical. This isn't my real finish here,

Michael Shanks 42:21
will actually let you in on a secret even worse than that. When I was at the halfway point, the news channels that came to fill me they wanted to use a drone. And they weren't allowed to use a drone in the city center because it was too close to the airport. And and one of the hospitals was closed because the COVID the airspace was closed around. And so they they we met outside the city and they made me run streets that didn't even count and then presented it as this is Glasgow because I had all these people emailing saying that still Glasgow that's my street is nowhere near.

Jason Moore 42:54
You're like I'm just an authentic guy here. I'm a teacher, I'm doing this thing. Why is the media throw me under the bus man? Come on.

Michael Shanks 43:03
It got on to say I've got a couple of kids at school who are who deliver the papers in the morning. And they came running and saying you were on the front page of the different newspapers. And I thought that's that's never something you want to hear in politics that you're on the front page, because it's usually a bad thing. But Eli, I'm with face right in the middle of a newspaper. So that was a really strange experience.

Jason Moore 43:26
How do you think right now? I mean, I know time will tell but how do you think this changed your life this experience?

Michael Shanks 43:33
I really don't know. I think it was. I think it's easy to think it was this massive big thing. But it was just really good fun. I think I can't get that far away from it. I didn't just enjoy doing it. It wasn't it wasn't set out to be any big, like life changing moment. I think it did pique my interest about like, I've always been interested in the city that I live in, and its development and its inequality and all of that kind of stuff. And but I think I've definitely got more of an interest in that now, which is why the books come about. And I mean I ran with you won't be able to see this because it's a podcast. But there's a book called rambles around Glasgow by Hugh McDonald, which was written in 1856. And he basically needs in 56 walked around the whole of the city a bit like I did. The city was tiny, in Eatwell, not tiny, but it was fairly small and eating 56. And I kind of wanted to do like a newer version of, of human Donald's book and that's kind of my my ambition just now. But apart from that, I'm not sure I think I definitely it was an adventure and an exploration as much as I running challenge. So there were there were moments where I wasn't. I wasn't really focused on on getting a personal best and a 5k or something like that. It was just I was just really enjoying exploring an area that I'd never been in before wondering Ready to park or you know, stuff like that? That was the best bet. Really?

Jason Moore 45:03
Yeah. I love that. And I guess I would ask for some advice here. As we finish this out, what advice would you have for somebody that's considering taking on their own version of a question? And again, like, I love what you said that people were reaching out and just talking about, maybe exploring their local area a bit more things like, it doesn't have to be this big, dramatic thing that takes two years and you know, 1000s of kilometers to do. It can be a version of that for yourself with what you have time for and everything. I'm just curious. Yeah, what what kind of advice would you give for somebody?

Michael Shanks 45:40
Yeah, I think definitely take that that kind of explorer viewpoint rather than the, the challenge point of it. So go out to explore and see what you find. I think definitely having some structure to it is, maybe it's just me, but I find that one of the most fun things was go for a run, and then come in and spend up a bit of time looking at the map, and seeing what I've done. And, and Scotland has this amazing, I'm sure other countries as well, but the National Library of Scotland has scanned in centuries worth of maps and digitize them. And you can go on and type in a street now. And it will give you maps going back 150 years, and you can see what was there in the 1880s or the 1930s, or whatever. For me, that was fascinating. Because you could see the area you visited what it's been like, throughout time. But I think definitely the people who've got in touch, you seem to enjoy it the most or have like physically go out and been coloring in. And I think there's a real sense of achievement in that in in physically having a map that you've you've explored. I think that's definitely the most fun and not get get hooked up on finishing it or trying to do it in a certain timeframe or anything like that. I think I definitely got into taking pictures as it was going around. And those turned into kind of themes of pictures. That kind of thing just made it far more interesting for me rather than just getting out of the car running getting back in the car. It was it was an adventure. Yeah, love that.

Jason Moore 47:07
And I'll just list off some of the themes on your website here every Glasgow street which people can go to and I'll link to you got subway, street art stadiums, postboxes faith urban goals NY fun loud.

Michael Shanks 47:23
Scots may find they find it they'll find a Glasgow has this thing I'm sure other places do as well, actually. But in loads and loads of places. There's big signs up that say no ballgames, which, to me as a teacher is kind of like this, this attitude that children should just not be seen, like, you just children shouldn't be in their community. I hate them. And every time I saw them, I just take a picture of because they just really frustrated me. Particularly they would be up in the middle of parks and things like well, where are you meant to do these things? If not in the middle of a park? So yeah, that was a personal annoyance.

Jason Moore 48:00
Yeah, doing it for the kids. Man. I see one picture no ball games with like just 1000 multicolored balls piled up against the wall. I don't know where that was, but right on to ever do that. Well, I love it, man. really inspired by what you've done, and really grateful that you took the time to come and share it with us. And yeah, we'll link to the website. Did I miss anything important here? Anything you want to highlight before we let you go about your day and may probably have go go have dinner or something? Right?

Michael Shanks 48:26
Yeah, absolutely. No, I think I think that's been fantastic. I would recommend people follow someone Ricky gets his stuff as well, because the guy is amazing. You run across America. But his video I can't remember who it is. He runs for a sponsored by one of the brands but his video of running San Francisco is is amazing. Every so often, when I was kind of a bit fed up and couldn't be bothered going out in the rain. What the video was a bit of an inspiration to keep going. So it's really, really well done, actually. You've covered everything. Thanks very much.

Jason Moore 49:00
Thank you very much for your time, and hopefully we can stay in touch. Let me know when the book comes out. And we can do this again.

Michael Shanks 49:05
Well, thanks very much. Take care.

Jason Moore 49:14
There you have it. Thank you so much to Michael Shanks for taking his time after work before he ate dinner to come on and share some of his wisdom from this experience running off Glasgow streets and sharing this incredible resource city strides seems like the place to go if you want to do something like this for yourself. After this interview while I was recording this, I was looking up Oslo where I live in wondering how many streets are there. In fact, in Oslo, it looks like there are 2683 streets that will be 1090 miles do I have that in me? I don't know. pretty intriguing though. I love this concept and on whatever scale we choose to take on a quest. I do find that, just through these conversations I've had over many years with people who have done things like this, seemingly, you know, epic things when you just look at the end results like, wow, Michael ran every street in Glasgow. But what he did is he just did it methodically, right? He did it with his full time teaching job, he broke it down, he found a resource that can help him, he got inspiration from Ricki Gates, who had done this before in another city. And then he went out and did it. And I find that to be one of the big lessons that I've pulled out over hundreds of conversations, really 1000s over the years with different travelers, and entrepreneurs, and all different types of people from all walks of life. And this is the big overarching theme I wanted to pull out from this interview. This reminder that we don't need to be experts or quote unquote, professionals to take on a grand adventure, time. And again, I've heard stories from people who do spectacular things. And they don't have a clue what they're doing. People that have rode their bikes around the world. But when they started out, they didn't know anything about bike touring, they had never ridden a bike for more than, you know, a few miles or whatever, you hear this kind of stuff all the time on the show. And here's another example, right? Running Every street in your city seems so overwhelming, well, that that guy must be some kind of marathon or some professional runner, no, he's a teacher, he just decided to do it, put his shoes on, went out there. And and made it happen and committed and got some accountability. And did it. So I just love this as a reminder coming out of this interview that we can all embrace, and remind ourselves that we don't need to be experts at anything to go do the things we want to do. Yes, information helps. Yes, you want to be smart, and you don't want to put yourself in a dangerous situation. But overall, I think that's a healthy philosophy to have, I don't think that means I think you understand what I'm saying, I'm not saying throw yourself into something. And don't be safe. I'm just saying everything starts somewhere. And we don't have to be in a certain place in our lives to start something new, some grand adventure, or some big idea, whatever that means to you. And another reminder, you heard Michael say at the end, that this was just fun, he had fun exploring an area he'd never really been before isn't that the heart of what travel is all about? In many ways, exploring an area we've never really been. And that feeling we get when we're doing that, and that fun that we have around that. And that's why I said at the top, this was a great reminder of why you can get that travel buzz in your own backyard. Because I think all of us have places we've haven't been in our own backyard. And if we go to those places with that travel mindset and just have fun exploring a place we've never been before, it doesn't have to be halfway across the world, we can get that same travel bus. So if I'm going to pull a challenge out of this show, maybe it's just to go to a place you haven't been before, it's not going to be to run every city in your town. Although if you have a small town, maybe you can do that today. And that might be cool. And you might even end up in a small town on a street that you've never been on before. But we can all find someplace near us that we haven't been before. And we can go and explore it. That'd be a fun thing to do as a community if you go and do that. Let me know where you went, what you did, what you found out about your town or yourself. Leave me a message drop me a line. Let me know if that's something you, you went out and did, I'd love to hear from you. So those were just two things I want to pull out. And the quote I'm going to leave you with in a moment kind of ties in with that idea of not having to be an expert to get out and do something really quickly. Before I leave you with a quote. I want to do just share a little bit about my trip with America. There's gonna be more about this coming up. I'm dragging my wife and a daughter back on the podcast. She'll hear a future episode from her where she's going to share some of her favorite parts about traveling in the States. I think that'll be fun because she brings that perspective of being from Norway being Norwegian and going to the States as a foreigner. And I said, Well, let's do some positive here. We know there's a positives and negatives around every place. But I want to hear from that foreign perspective. What you like about traveling in the States, which is going to be different than in some ways in the things that I enjoy because I'm just going back to my home country as an expat abroad. It's very nice to get back home and reconnect with my culture. Also some things that reminded me why I also like living in Norway where I live, but we'll save that for another show. But anyway, I wanted to share the three F's, the three big F's that dominated my trip. These are words that start with F, sorry, I like alliteration, first, freedom, freedom, it was so nice to be back out on the road for over a month. And to do it with my family and how I got that freedom was stripping down my life. I mean, I did a lot of batching. With my work, I also made some tough decisions decided to leave my own company, not zero to travel, this podcast is still here. But I was running a community for digital nomads for a long time, and some training programs, things like that, and decided to leave that behind. And to do something else, I don't know what yet, but we're gonna keep this podcast going, no worries there. All the stuff is here to travel. But I want to build something new here, it's easier to travel and build something new in my life. And I don't know what that is yet. I'm a bit at a bit of a crossroads. And, you know, anytime I find myself at a crossroads, travel can swoop in and help me out. I don't know if it's saving me but at least giving me mental space, time to think. And anyway, so stripping down minimizing my life, which has been a process that's been going on for some years now has really given me the space. And all of that culminated in this time that I had in the states where I didn't really have a lot of responsibilities for the first time and I batch the work that I do have. So I had that freedom. And my wife took a leave of absence from work, and we decided to just carve out this time, and have time to be present with us as a family. And that's the second family. Family. This was all about spending time with family got to spend time with all of them, and quality time and it was such a wonderful thing to do and do it unencumbered by a lot of the responsibilities that I normally carry with me over to the states and just always lovely to see family and reconnect there. Get my kids to know their grandparents over in America a bit more and keep building that relationship which builds over time. So that was wonderful. And the final F food, of course food right now. The American food lifestyle really beat me

or I should say beefed me up. But it is a big portions to say the least. There was not so many healthy dishes. But we had a blast consuming them. And of course got all the favorite things that I miss when I'm gone like Clausen's pickles and goldfish crackers and Mexican food which you can get in Norway, but haven't really found that solid Mexican restaurants not very common here. So you know, when you travel, certain foods you love that you miss from home, come back stuff your face, why food, lots of food, we had a blast eating it. And a lot more coming out of that trip. I'm still processing it. And I'm sure you'll hear some tidbits in the coming weeks, as I continue to publish these podcasts for you got exciting shows coming out through the summer in this fall. And just really excited about the future here. So I encourage you to subscribe if you're new. And we will continue to build this thing together as a community powered show. going on nine years. It's crazy. And don't forget, if you want to support the show, you can go to zero to travel.com/premium. With two taps, you get access to a premium free you'll get ad free episodes, you get all of the back catalogue, you get exclusive bonus content. I just released a five part miniseries on how sitting internationally and even gave away our best selling book with that got a series on how to quit your job and travel the world. And tons of bonus episodes, you can get it all at zero to travel.com/premium and try it for just $1 If you don't like it, I'll send you your dollar back no problem. But if you enjoy the show, and you find that it's been helping you in your life, and you want more of that content, so many golden nuggets in the archives alone, let alone the bonus episodes and the mini series and all the other stuff going on. You can sign up over there, zero to travel.com/premium Thank you so very much as an independent creator. For those of you that take the time to sign up and support the show. Now, before I let you go let me wrap this up with a quote I had to search for quotes on running because I thought that might tie in nicely and I found one Kara kucha She's no Olympic long distance runner and bronze medalist of the Boston Marathon she said it doesn't matter how fast or how far you're go watching. If you're putting on your shoes and going out for a run, you are a runner. You are in that club. And I mentioned it before. I think this ties in nicely with that overarching theme of you don't have to be an expert or a quote, professional to get out there and do something. If you have dreamed about traveling the world, and you don't consider yourself a traveler, well, if you put on your shoes and you buy a plane ticket and you pack a bag and you go, you're a traveler, there you go, you are a traveler, and we can apply that to anything in life. So get out there and do the thing your soul has been asking you to do for a long time and you are that thing. I'm gonna leave you with that quote and enjoy the rest of your day night smile, and thanks for your time. I'll see you next time. Peace and love.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:55
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