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Mia Sundstrom is a CEO who swims in the middle of the workday, on purpose, and can tell you exactly why she gets that hour back. She runs the National Institute for Play, she's a lifelong gymnast, and she's on a mission to reach ten million people with play by 2030.We get into play as both a state (the thing you're doing) and a trait (the way you show up), the neuroscience that play lives in the oldest part of the brain and is something we're born knowing how to do, and the six play styles (I took the quiz and came out mover and explorer.) We talk about why play is productive, from the $10 trillion cost of disengagement to the fact that nobody's best idea has ever arrived while staring at a monitor, and how to tell real play from the scrolling that only looks like it. Mia's grandfather, the psychiatrist Stuart Brown, built this field after noticing that people who commit serious violence tend to be starved of play, and she carries that work forward. It's an episode about giving yourself permission to play, and the science that says you'll get the time back. Take the Play Styles assessment and discover your unique play spark (https://playstyles.nifplay.org/). Stay up to date with the latest play science information by subscribing to their Substack @NIFPlay. And check The Live Playfully Journal: 90-days of reflection and practice to a more playful, joyful you.

Jason Cohen has founded two unicorn companies, WP Engine and Smart Bear, and written at asmartbear.com for almost twenty years. His new book, Hidden Multipliers, opens with a founder lying awake at 4 a.m. feeling like a fraud — which tells you it isn't a normal growth-tactics book, and this isn't a normal growth-tactics conversation. We get into why the people who love your work often love it for the things you'd call weaknesses, why Jason would rather have fewer followers who actually care than ten times the audience and a version of himself he'd have to fake, the three-word question he keeps on his daily note to save himself in meetings (does this need to be said, by me, right now), and the night a board member named the real reason he didn't want to step down as CEO: "You want the credit." Underneath all of it: build a company, and a life, in the shape of you. Jason writes at asmartbear.com. His new book, Hidden Multipliers, is at hiddenmultipliers.com. New here? Welcome. And if you've been with me since the ZenFounder days, you're in the right place — the whole back catalog is still here. Follow Permission wherever you listen.

After more than a decade and a few hundred episodes, ZenFounder is becoming Permission. I'm Dr. Sherry Walling — clinical psychologist, and the voice you've been listening to all along — and this is the next chapter of the show we've built together. Somewhere along the way, most of us started waiting for permission: to rest, to change our minds, to want a different life than the one we built. Permission is a podcast for people who've done the hard thing — built the company, hit the number, raised the kids — and found themselves wondering what it was all for. Each week I sit down with founders, entrepreneurs, scientists, artists, and creatives, and we go where most business shows won't. Some weeks it's permission to admit you got everything you wanted and you're still not happy. Some weeks it's permission to be led by pleasure instead of productivity, or to stop earning your worth and simply have it. And every single episode ends the same way — with a permission slip: one thing you didn't know you were allowed to do. If you've been here since the ZenFounder days: thank you. You've sat with me through hundreds of conversations, and I don't take that for granted. This is the version of the show I've been growing toward for years, and I think it's about to get really good. I can't wait for you to hear it. If you're new: welcome. This is a good place to land.

In this intimate conversation, Dr. Sherry Walling explores our relationship with fear and why it is not something to override or dismiss. Drawing from both psychology and her experience as a circus aerialist, Dr. Sherry explains how fear functions as a warning system in the body signaling potential danger, asking us to slow down, and inviting attention.  Rather than treating fear as a weakness or obstacle, this conversation reframes fear as information, a signal worth listening to.  This episode is an invitation to develop a more mature relationship with fear, one that allows it to inform decisions, clarify priorities, and protect what matters most, without letting it run the show. What You’ll Learn in This Episode: Why fear is often misunderstood as weakness instead of wisdom The difference between listening to fear and letting fear run the show Why emotional fears (shame, failure, rejection) deserve attention, not avoidance The role of fear in helping us prioritise what truly matters #ZenFounderPodcast #DrSherryWalling #FearAsInformation #NervousSystemWisdom #EntrepreneurMentalHealth #EmbodiedLeadership #Presence

Entrepreneurs are great at leading teams, making decisions, and optimizing time. But what happens when those same skills show up at home—and start to hurt your closest relationships? In this episode, Dr. Walling shares the 4 entrepreneurial mindsets that often cause trouble at home—and what you can do differently. Self-importance around time – why treating family moments as “below you” creates distance. Productivity over presence – how chasing efficiency can crowd out play. Reviewing family members like employees – why constant appraisal kills safety and connection. Expecting instant implementation – what happens when you “CEO” at home. And last, the best lessons you can actually learn from family life — lessons that will make you a stronger, more human leader.

Entrepreneurs are keen to push themselves to grow and become the best version of themselves. As early adopters, they’re often open to immersive experiences that accelerate their personal and professional development. But when it comes to non-ordinary state experiences like psychedelics, deep retreats, even personal breakthroughs, too many skip the most essential part: integration. In this episode, Dr. Sherry Walling breaks down exactly what it means to integrate a transformative experience into your daily life. Whether you're navigating a psychedelic journey or simply returning from an immersive retreat, this conversation offers practical tips for slowing down, listening in, and making your growth real. You'll learn: How to decipher the kinds of “messages” you receive during a journey How to build a 4-month plan around new values, habits, or intentions Why busyness is the enemy of growth—and how to build in space for listening Subscribe to Sherry’s newsletter: tinyurl.com/ZenFounder

Is Entrepreneurship a Creative Act? In this episode, Dr. Sherry Walling shares what producing a full-scale circus show taught her about the creative process of entrepreneurship. From the vulnerability of putting your work in public to the emotional risk of innovation, Sherry explores how the mindset of an artist can unlock better products, deeper audience connection, and long-term fulfillment as a founder. #Entrepreneurship #CreativeLeadership #MentalHealth #Startups #Founders  #Vulnerability #CreatorEconomy

Did you know that 27% of Americans are actively estranged from at least one family member? In a world where ideological division is high and screens are the most consistent recipient of our attention, our families are quietly fracturing. In this special episode, clinical psychologist Dr. Sherry Walling reflects on the beautiful, painful, complicated terrain of family life.  Inside this episode: – Why family can be our deepest source of pain—and our greatest opportunity for healing – The psychological dynamics of individuation, estrangement, and reconciliation – A radical practice for staying close: becoming a neutral observer Whether you're in the thick of parenting, navigating loss, or redefining what family means to you, this episode is an invitation to reflect, feel, and begin again. Learn more about the Familia circus show: https://www.touchingtwoworlds.com/familia Read the book: https://www.touchingtwoworlds.com/free-chapters Get support o...

Do you ever ask yourself what you really want? Not what’s profitable. Not what’s a good business decision. Not what’s righteous, or best for your team. Just… what you want. In this episode, clinical psychologist Dr. Sherry Walling invites you into a deeply personal—and radically freeing—conversation about desire. As a founder or leader, you’ve been trained to prioritize discipline, service, and strategy. But too often, that comes at the cost of your own longing. Inside this episode: Why desire isn’t hedonism—it’s data A framework for “desiring well” The reason most humans fear giving in to desire Want deeper support in your founder journey?

Ever find yourself saying things you regret in the heat of the moment? Or spiraling after a client complaint, a bad email, or your kid melting down in public? In this episode, clinical psychologist Dr. Sherry Walling breaks down how high performers lose control of big emotions—and how to get it back. Inside this episode: – What’s actually happening in your body when you get triggered – How to catch your reaction early—before your nervous system hijacks your behavior – Simple ways to calm your body fast (breathwork, water, scent, music) – What past experiences may be quietly running the show when you feel attacked or out of control Whether you’re a founder, a parent, or both—this is the toolkit for staying regulated when life gets hard.

Do you ever feel like you’re at war with yourself? One part of you wants to hustle, scale, dominate the market. Another part wants to sell the business, move to the woods, and sleep 10 hours a night. And then there’s the voice panicking about churn, cash flow, and that very unhappy customer email you can’t stop thinking about. You're not broken. You're not alone. You're just... human. In this episode, clinical psychologist Dr. Sherry Walling introduces a powerful framework you probably haven’t tried: Internal Family Systems (IFS). This psychological model helps founders better understand their competing inner voices—and make smarter, more aligned decisions. Inside this episode: – Why some parts of you want to grow your business—and others want to burn it all down – The real reason ignoring your “inner child” can lead to burnout – How to recognize fear-based decision-making before it wrecks your strategy – A practical exercise to map your Internal Founder System #FounderLife #...

Entrepreneurship is lonely—but it doesn’t have to be. In this video, Dr. Sherry Walling dives into one of the most overlooked challenges in the entrepreneurial journey: finding your people. Starting, growing, and even exiting a business can be incredibly isolating. That loneliness can quietly erode both your mental health and your ability to lead. In this episode, you'll learn:   The difference between networking and true friendship Why proximity, attention, and shared play are essential to adult friendships How relationships are foundational to both mental health and business success   Whether you’re craving deeper connections, wondering why your friendships feel thin, or simply looking to feel less alone in your work—this one’s for you. Learn more about Sherry’s upcoming Touching Two Worlds: Familia circus show—an original performance about the power of relationships: www.touchingtwoworlds.com/upcoming-shows

Is Traditional Therapy Failing Entrepreneurs? Therapy is an invaluable tool—but is it always the best fit for high performers, founders, and creatives? In this episode, Dr. Sherry Walling shares her honest critique of traditional psychotherapy, highlighting five key concerns: The Pathology Trap – Why therapy often focuses on diagnosing problems instead of amplifying strengths. It Takes Too Long – Why conventional therapy can be slow-moving and how alternative approaches, like psychedelics, may be more effective for rapid breakthroughs. Hyper-Focus on Hurt – How therapy can make people more sensitive to pain without equipping them to move forward. The Risk of Self-Absorption – When therapy over-validates personal experiences without placing them in a larger context of relationships and responsibilities.

Entrepreneurs thrive on independence, resilience, and figuring things out on their own. But when it comes to launching a book, a product, or a business—going solo can actually hold you back.   Asking for help isn’t a weakness—it’s a growth strategy.   In this episode, Dr. Sherry Walling breaks down why founders struggle to ask for help, how to do it effectively, and why the success of your work depends on it.

You’ve built something incredible. But when it’s time to sell, are you unknowingly making your exit harder than it needs to be? Most founders focus on the financial side of an exit—negotiating terms, securing the best deal, maximizing their payout. But what about the psychological side? If you’re not prepared, selling your business can feel like losing a piece of yourself—leading to bad deals, self-sabotage, and regret. In this episode, Dr. Sherry Walling, clinical psychologist and entrepreneur, breaks down seven factor that shape how you feel about an exit, including some common self-sabotage situations and how to avoid them. You’ll learn: The identity trap: why over-identifying with your business makes letting go so painful The hidden rebel: how your own psychology could push you to blow up a good deal Why money mindset matters—and how it shapes your exit experience