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What if researchers could learn as much from what people do with their hands as from what they say? Lou talks with Dane DeSutter and Stephanie Scopelitis, authors of the forthcoming Body Talk: Using Gestures to Rethink Human-Centered Products, about the overlooked role gestures play in research, communication, and design. Drawing on backgrounds spanning learning science, dance, music, and product research, Dane and Stephanie explain how gestures can reveal mental models, clarify ideas that are difficult to put into words, and give researchers new opportunities to dig deeper. Rather than relying on intuition alone, they argue that researchers can learn to observe gestures systematically—and use their own gestures intentionally to support richer interactions. Through examples involving everything from justice to data integration, they show how paying closer attention to the body can uncover insights that words alone might miss—and ultimately help designers create products that make more sense to the people using them.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why gestures offer a window into how people think How gestures can reveal mental models that words may not capture How researchers can observe gestures more systematically Why context and culture matter when interpreting gestures How gestures can help researchers ask better follow-up questions How understanding embodied behavior can lead to better product design   Quick Reference Guide: 0:11 - Meet Dane DeSutter and Stephanie Scopelitis and get an overview of their book, Body Talk 3:25 - Gestures in the UX world 6:53 - The ah-ha moment that made Dane take a closer look at gestures 9:15 - The influence of dance on Stephanie’s work 11:33 - Sign language vs gestures 13:19 - Gestures in the podcast studio 15:11 - We are all students of body language 19:03 - 15% off on Rosenfeld Media book preorders 20:26 - An example from teaching  24:49 - An example from product design and development  26:54 - Using gestures to reveal mental models and deepen understanding  30:42 - Offering and interpreting gestures 33:39 - Dane & Stephanie’s gifts for listeners 37:10 - Why you should try the Rosenverse   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Body Talk: Using Gestures to Rethink Human-Centered Products by Dane DeSutter and Stephanie Scopelitis https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/body-talk/ The Supplement to the Italian Dictionary by Bruno Munari https://corraini.com/products/supplemento-al-dizionario-italiano Solitary Confinement: Social Death and Its Afterlives by Lisa Guenther https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5749/j.ctt4cggj8 The Inside-Out Center https://insideoutcenter.org/ The Rosenverse https://rosenverse.rosenfeldmedia.com/   Quotes: “A big part of how [engineers] interact with one another is in gesture.” —Dane  “The body [is] a bridge. It’s a bridge between the person and the experience, a bridge between the past and the future.” — Dane  “We use our bodies to communicate, to think through things, to shape our interactions all the time.” — Stephanie  “This is a way to see into the mind.” — Dane  “If you can understand how people think, you can design for them, you can create products that make sense to them.” — Dane  “Looking at gestures as a window into the mind… that’s where the richness comes from.” — Stephanie

As organizations race to automate with AI, the most important question may not be what machines can do, but what they should do. Lou talks with cognitive neuroscientist and UX researcher Stef Hutka, author of the forthcoming Rosenfeld Media book What Your Machines Should Do: The Science and Strategy of Human-Centered Automation, about how teams can make more thoughtful decisions about automation. Stef introduces the Autonomy Decision Matrix, a framework that asks teams to evaluate automation along two dimensions: Could you automate it? and Should you automate it? Using examples from augmented reality and AI-powered customer service, she explains why technical feasibility alone isn’t enough — and how shared frameworks can help leaders and practitioners make better decisions together. The conversation ultimately makes the case for “humanist automation”: using technology to extend human capabilities rather than simply replace people. Stef will continue exploring that idea as a curator of the human-centered tooling track at Rosenfeld Media’s upcoming Shift UX 2026, where she and the speakers will examine how our tools are reshaping not only products, but organizations, communities, and society.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why “could we automate?” and “should we automate?” are different questions How the Autonomy Decision Matrix guides automation decisions Why augmentation can be more valuable than replacing people How shared frameworks help leaders and practitioners discuss AI What “humanist automation” means in practice How designers can think beyond today’s tools toward longer-term consequences   Quick Reference Guide: 0:18 - Meet Stef 3:30 - Augmented reality – should we? 5:23 - The reality of the cost of augmented reality suits 7:17 - Augmenting human capability or replacing it? 8:47 - A basic framework, the Autonomy Decision Matrix, for a thoughtful, less risky approach 12:16 - Early conversations in the automation space are important 14:29 - Bloomberg LP 15:46 - Fleshing out the Autonomy Decision Matrix - a case study with Klarna 20:50 - The people who should be having these ADM conversations 22:48 - Humanist automation 24:57 - Steph’s role in Shift UX 2026 29:20 - Stef’s gift for listeners Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Bloomberg LP’s open positions https://www.bloomberg.com/company/what-we-do/ux/ Shift UX 2026 https://shiftux.rosenfeldmedia.com/ What Your Machines Should Do: The Science and Strategy of Human-Centered Automation by Stefanie Hutka https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/what-your-machines-should-do/   Quotes: “There's a lot of ‘We can do it,’ but should we? And this ‘should we?’ is not always the strongest justification.” “What are you doing automation in service of?” “Humans are doing the steering. It's not AI steering, and we're in the backseat.” “Who decides what is that preferred state, and what is our role as UX practitioners?”

What if uncertainty isn’t something UX professionals need to survive — but an opportunity to reshape what comes next? Catt Small and Lou explore how designers can reclaim agency at a moment when familiar roles, tools, and assumptions about the industry are shifting. Drawing on her own evolution from web designer to staff designer, Catt argues that career paths aren’t fixed: designers can identify where they bring the most value and help shape roles around their strengths. Catt and Lou discuss why today’s upheaval isn’t entirely new, how experimentation can help designers navigate ambiguity, and why the optimism that once surrounded technology has become more complicated. They also explore design’s role within the realities of business—and why making things better sometimes means slowing down, adding friction, asking harder questions, and helping organizations make more thoughtful decisions. Catt, who will open the inaugural Shift UX conference, ultimately offers a hopeful message: even in uncertain times, designers have agency—and uncertainty can be an ideal time to make meaningful moves. What You'll Learn from this Episode: How to shape a design career around your strengths rather than a prescribed path Why agency matters when roles, tools, and expectations are changing How today’s UX uncertainty echoes earlier periods of industry transformation Why designers increasingly help organizations explore possibilities and make better decisions How business realities complicate the goal of designing for people Why uncertainty can create opportunities to experiment, advocate, and make meaningful career moves Quick Reference Guide: 0:10 – Meet Cat Small (and her kittens), and learn about Cat and Lou’s ground rules for their conversation 3:27 - The career ladder is made up, so we should feel free to change it 7:26 - Embracing constant evolution rather than resisting change 10:20 - Advice for embracing change: know yourself 13:26 - Lessons gleaned from others 16:39 - A sale on book pre-orders 17:38 - UX returns to experimentation  21:28 - Tech’s optimism vs harder questions about progress and impact  24:47 - Designing for people while navigating the realities of business  26:57 - Shifting from removing friction to facilitating better decisions  29:32 - Finding agency and making meaningful moves  31:02 - About Shift UX 2026 32:08 - Kat’s gift for the audience   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Imani House https://www.imanihouse.org/ Judd Legum’s Popular Info https://popular.info/about Shift UX 2026 https://shiftux.rosenfeldmedia.com/ NTS Radio https://www.nts.live/radio   Quotes: “We don’t have to be told what kind of job we should have.”  “It’s a sign of leadership when you know yourself and how to best bring value to the team.”  “Times of uncertainty are a great time to make moves.”

As UX roles and titles continue to shift, the ability to make sense of complexity may matter more than ever. Lou talks with information architect, author, and longtime collaborator Abby Covert about how her work evolved from information architecture into the broader practice of sensemaking—and why she believes that work extends far beyond people with “IA” in their job titles. Abby also offers a preview of Shift UX, Rosenfeld Media’s hybrid conference on September 24–25, where she is one of the main curators. She explains how the event itself is being redesigned to move away from “design theater”: speakers will share the stage, dedicated sensemakers will connect ideas across talks, and the audience will become part of the conversation. The conversation explores Abby’s Sensemakers Club, the importance of creating genuine community, and her new book, Timeless Sensemaking for Modern Sensemakers. Throughout, Abby makes the case that sensemaking isn’t simply about organizing information—it’s also about understanding people, adapting how we communicate, and helping others turn complexity into something they can actually use.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: How information architecture led Abby to the broader practice of sensemaking Why UX skills may outlast traditional UX roles and titles How Shift UX is rethinking the traditional conference experience Why sensemaking is personal—and looks different for everyone How intentional discussion can turn connection into genuine community Why adapting how you communicate can make your work more effective   Quick Reference Guide: 0:16 - Meet Abby 2:29 - Sense-making as part of information architecture; placemaking vs sensemaking 5:31 - More on the term sensemaking 9:46 - More on placemaking; moving away from performance and toward disclosure; experience design 16:09 - 15% off on two books: What Your Machine Should Do by Stephanie Hutko and Body Talk by Dane Sutter and Stephanie Scopolitis 17:17 - Sensemaking is personal 19:11 - What sensemaking will look like at the Shift UX conference 21:22 - Sensemakers Club and Abby’s book 26:27 - More on Abby’s book 30:34 - Abby’s gift for listeners 31:33 - Check out the Rosenverse   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: How to Make Sense of Any Mess by Abby Covert https://abbycovert.com/make-sense/ Shift UX - September 24-25, 2026 https://shiftux.rosenfeldmedia.com/ Timeless Sensemaking for Modern Sensemakers by Abby Covert https://abbycovert.com/sensemaking/ Extra Bold, Feminist, Inclusive, Anti-Racist, Non-Binary Field Guide for Graphic Designers by Ellen Lupton, Farah Kafei, Jennifer Tobias, Josh A. Halstead, Kaleena Sales, Leslie Xia, Valentina Vergara https://papress.com/products/extra-bold Quotes: “I've come to understand sensemaking as a part of information architecture.” “Information is sketchy when you look at it as a material that we wield.”  “The stage is becoming sort of like this central gathering space, more like a meeting house and less like a theater production.” “Sensemaking is an incredibly personal process.”

Product management is changing fast — and according to Julia Barham, many PMs are being pushed to the “left,” beyond delivery work into deeper discovery, customer insight, and strategic thinking. Julia joins Lou to discuss her forthcoming book, The Product Management Playbook: Create, Ship, and Optimize Winning Products, and why modern product managers need broader, end-to-end skills to thrive. Julia explains how AI and automation are reducing the amount of manual coordination and backlog management product managers traditionally handled — creating both anxiety and opportunity. As delivery work becomes easier, PMs are increasingly expected to spend more time understanding customers, validating ideas, collaborating across disciplines, and driving outcomes instead of simply shipping features. She also argues that great product managers succeed not because they know everything, but because they cultivate curiosity, build strong partnerships, and continuously learn across business, design, data, technology, and customer domains. The conversation also explores why many product managers feel disempowered inside organizations, the growing overlap between product and UX research, and how self-education, mentorship, and optimism can help professionals adapt during an uncertain AI-driven transition.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why product management roles are shifting toward discovery work How AI is changing delivery and project-management tasks The five core domains strong product managers understand Why curiosity is a product manager’s “X factor” How PMs can better partner with UX, engineering, and data teams Why many product managers feel disempowered today How self-education and mentorship accelerate PM growth What end-to-end product management really looks like   Quick Reference Guide: 0:18 – Meet Julia and learn why she wrote her new book 2:43 - Product managers shifting into customer rese–arch roles 5:29 - The dynamics of research shifting into the product space 8:44 - Other major messages of Julia’s book 11:55 - The common thread: curiosity 13:24 - Designing with AI virtual conference 14:10 - The insecurity of having breadth of knowledge but not depth 17:09 - The importance of self-education 19:02 - The ubiquitous attitude of “nobody listens to me or respects my position” and what to do about it 23:46 - Julia’s gift for listeners   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: The Product Management Playbook: Create, Ship, and Optimize Winning Products by Julia Barham https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/product-management-playbook/  Dr. Marily Nika’s courses on Maven https://maven.com/marily-nika   Dr. Marily Nika on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/marilynika  Hilary Gridley’s Couch-to-5K for AI https://couchto5k.ai/    Quotes: “Successful product managers usually operate across five different domains.”  “It’s not a book on theory; it’s a book on doing.” “You need to be a really good partner if you want to be a great product manager.” “The point is harnessing multiple superpowers to get that integrated thinking and develop a solution that’s going to work across what customers need, businesses need, and then can be scalable and sustainable.”   “You have to be curious. You have to spend time with your partners, get mentors, and learn to understand how design, data, technology all help you make a better product for customers and for your business.”

AI is opening the door to a new era of design—but most teams are still focused on making their existing work faster rather than reimagining what’s possible. Lou talks with Josh Clark and Veronica Kindred about their new book, Sentient Design, and what it takes to design truly intelligent interfaces. They introduce the idea of “practical magic”—starting with bold, even impossible wishes and then working backward to create real, deliverable experiences. Rather than defaulting to chatbots and efficiency gains, they argue that AI enables entirely new interaction models, from adaptive interfaces to agents that collaborate directly within products. The conversation also explores how design systems and past UX practices lay the groundwork for this shift, while designers themselves must unlearn habits that limit creativity. Through their “sentient design sprint” and “minimum magical product” framework, Josh and Veronica offer a structured way to move from imagination to implementation. At its core, this episode is a call for designers to reclaim their role as inventors—embracing AI not just as a tool, but as a new design material for creating more responsive, dynamic, and human-centered experiences. What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why AI is a new “design material,” not just a productivity tool How “practical magic” helps teams rethink what’s possible Why designers are stuck focusing on process instead of product innovation What adaptive, intelligent interfaces could look like in practice How the “sentient design sprint” turns ideas into real solutions What designers need to unlearn to work effectively with AI Quick Reference Guide: 0:13 - Meet Josh and Veronika and learn about their new Rosenfeld Media book 3:14 - Harnessing magical thinking with AI 9:19 - Moving beyond process, speed, and efficiency 13:11 - How designers can transition from tooling to inventing 16:53 - Exciting places the magic could take us 23:40 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse 25:52 - The Sentient Design Sprint 30:08 - The Sentient Triangle 33:36 - Is this applicable to non-traditional designers? Or what designers need to unlearn? 39:56 - Josh and Veronica’s gifts for listeners   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Sentient Design: Crafting Intelligent Interfaces with AI by Josh Clark and Veronika Kindred https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/sentient-design/ Designing with AI 2026 - June 9, 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designing-with-ai/  Enchanted Objects: Innovation, Design, and the Future of Technology by David Rose https://www.amazon.com/Enchanted-Objects-Innovation-Design-Technology/dp/1476725640  This is Running: A Celebration of the World of Running, Exploring the Culture, History, Brands, Races and People Behind It by Raziq Rauf https://www.amazon.com/This-Running-Celebration-Exploring-Culture/dp/1837330425?crid=10LYBYV063BKK&dib    Quotes: “We try to get in touch with the moments of emerging technology that help us to let go of the old ways of doing things and embrace the new, to think in terms of magical wishes.” “A ‘magical moment’ is that machines can understand our intent beyond just what we know to type.”  “The danger is we’re not endorsing magical thinking.” “First we retool, then we reorganize to get our process around that. And then we invent.”

AI may be built on language—but according to Paul Ford, we’re still struggling to find the right words to describe what it’s actually doing to our work and thinking. Lou and Paul explore how language shapes our ability to understand—and responsibly use—AI. Drawing on his dual background in programming and writing, Paul shares a set of evolving “rules” for working with AI: don’t let it replace your thinking, be wary of its tendency to flatter, and build systems that help you verify and structure its output rather than blindly trusting it. He explains how he uses AI to accelerate prototyping and research while still preserving human judgment, creativity, and accountability. The discussion also zooms out to the broader cultural moment. From skeptical college students to industry hype cycles, Paul argues that people are more discerning than we often assume—and that AI’s impact will play out in diverse, deeply human ways. Paul will be the opening speaker at the upcoming Designing with AI conference, where he’ll expand on these ideas and introduce new language for navigating this rapidly evolving space. His takeaway? We’re not at the end of history—we’re in a messy, fascinating transition, and the best we can do is stay curious, thoughtful, and engaged.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why shared language is critical for making sense of AI How Paul Ford approaches “rules” for using AI responsibly The risks of AI’s built-in flattery and “smooth” thinking Practical ways to use AI for prototyping without losing control Why verification systems matter more than trusting the model How younger generations actually view AI (less hype, more pragmatism) Why AI may be powerful—but not as historically radical as we think How to stay grounded and thoughtful amid rapid technological change   Quick Reference Guide: 0:11 – Meet Paul 5:30 - Can language keep up with technological change? 12:48 – Paul’s rules for professionals 18:11 - Where is the slippery slope? Paul weighs in. 22:23 - Paul reveals his gift for the audience 23:03 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse 25:18 - A story about some NY college students 29:21 - The anger and skepticism toward AI 35:18 - Wrapping up   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Designing with AI conference - June 9, 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designing-with-ai/  Shell Game Podcast, by Evan Ratliff podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shell-game/id1753117762    Quotes: “In a world where product is very easy to spin up, the relationship is getting more and more important.”  “You can really narrow your risk when you’re working with this stuff, and then you can let it go and see what it comes up with.”  “There’s ways to mess with this stuff where I think you get to move forward and you get to think your thoughts without letting it take over.”  “When it gets into that weird social relationship where it’s telling you that was a good idea, that’s where my alarm bells go off.”   “The native buttering up of these technologies, I think is really dangerous because, God, you always want to hear it, especially when you're a boss.

As AI becomes easier and cheaper to deploy, designers face a new challenge: deciding not just what can be automated, but what should be. Lou Rosenfeld talks with Joy Kendi of Dalberg Design — and an upcoming speaker at the Designing with AI 2026 conference — about introducing AI into high-stakes systems where design decisions can directly affect access to healthcare, services, and critical resources. Joy shares examples from her work in public health systems, including an AI concept intended to help community health workers prioritize patient visits. What initially seemed like an obvious efficiency gain quickly raised deeper concerns around incomplete data, shifting real-world conditions, and the irreplaceable role of human judgment and community trust. Rather than treating AI as a decision-maker, Joy argues for designing systems where AI supports — but does not override — human expertise. Their conversation also explores how AI is reshaping the role of designers themselves. Joy makes the case that designers must move “upstream” in the process, helping define boundaries, risks, trust, and governance before automation decisions are made.    What You'll Learn from this Episode: How Joy Kendi defines “high-stakes” design systems Why automation can fail in public health contexts The risks of relying on incomplete or outdated data Why AI should support human judgment, not replace it How designers are moving upstream in AI decision-making What human-centered AI governance can look like in practice   Quick Reference Guide: 0:11 - Meet Joy and learn about high-stake systems 3:26 - Joy’s backstory 6:10 - Seeing beyond the everyday facade 8:55 - Why you need the Rosenverse 11:08 - Designing responsible AI for high-stakes public health decisions  16:06 - Why human judgment still matters in AI-assisted decision-making  18:29 - Designers must shape AI boundaries, not just interfaces  22:06 - Joy’s gift for listeners   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Designing with AI 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designing-with-ai/    Quotes: “When I say high stakes systems, I mean systems where the design choices carry very real consequences beyond the typical interface or screen that a lot of designers are used to.” “The hardest question is not just can we build this tool. It’s also deciding whether we should automate some of these complex social decisions at all.”   “Even when the quality of data is good, and the data is available, there's more complexity to how human beings make decisions. A lot of that is also based on the social dynamics.”

Privacy concerns didn’t appear overnight—they’ve been building quietly alongside the technologies we rely on every day. Lou and Robert Stribley, author of Design for Privacy, explore how digital tracking, AI, and data sharing have reshaped the way personal information moves through the modern web. Robert traces the growing privacy challenge from early internet tracking to today’s complex ecosystem of smartphones, online services, and AI systems. While many users understand that they’re trading data for convenience, few grasp how widely their information is distributed—or how easily supposedly anonymous data can be re-identified. As AI accelerates the ability to combine and analyze datasets, those risks are growing quickly. Then the conversation turns to what designers can do about it. Robert outlines practical ways UX professionals can improve privacy outcomes, from collecting less data and avoiding deceptive patterns to improving language transparency and giving users meaningful control over their information. Despite the scale of the problem, Robert argues that designers have more agency and influence than they realize. Thoughtful design decisions can help protect users while also strengthening trust and long-term business success.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why privacy concerns have intensified with smartphones, AI, and online tracking How “anonymous” data can often be re-identified through data aggregation Why users have conflicting attitudes about personalization and data tracking The role UX designers can play in improving privacy protections How deceptive design patterns (including cookie banners) manipulate user consent Why clearer language and better privacy tools can give users meaningful control over their data Quick Reference Guide: 0:15 - Meet Robert, Lou’s neighbor 1:51 - How Robert got into the privacy field 5:06 - Perceptions of privacy and the concessions we make 8:01 - Terms of Service - we accept them blindly - and why that can be risky 15:54 - 5 Reasons to use the Rosenverse 18:39 - What designers can do about data privacy 28:08 - Privacy tools and potential tools for users 32:38 - Robert’s gift for listeners Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Design for Privacy: Keeping Personal Information Private by Robert Stribley https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/design-for-privacy/ Block Party app https://www.blockpartyapp.com/ 404 Media https://www.404media.co/ The Capture https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8201186/   Quotes: “We have created these patterns that make it very easy to get involved with those experiences, all the while you're surrendering your data.”  “I don't think most people understand the degree to which that information is spread around and with whom it's spread around.” “Whenever you are utilizing people’s data, really think about what you’re doing with it and be able to justify it.”  “When you understand deceptive patterns as manipulative, you can’t stop seeing them everywhere.”

AI is reshaping product development faster than most organizations can even rethink how they work—and that gap sits at the heart of this conversation with product design guru Jeff Gothelf. Lou and Jeff explore why proven methods like Agile and OKRs so often become “process theater” instead of real change, and what it actually takes to shift organizations from output-driven cultures to outcome-driven ones. Jeff explains that most transformations fail because incentives still reward shipping outputs, not creating real value. Meaningful change tends to emerge only in pockets led by leaders willing to experiment and treat ways of working as something to test and evolve. They also explore how AI is shifting risk upstream—from engineering to vision, validation, and decisionmaking—making design and research more critical than ever. Along the way, they reflect on consulting as organizational therapy, the need to prove design’s value in the AI era, and why companies that relentlessly embrace new technology are best positioned to endure.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why Agile, OKRs, and similar frameworks often fail to create real change The critical shift from measuring output to measuring outcomes The two traits shared by successful pockets of transformation in large companies How to run small, time-boxed experiments to change ways of working at scale Why AI makes design, research, and product thinking more valuable How to explain and prove the value of “thinking before the prompt” in AI-driven organizations   Quick Reference Guide: 0:10 - Meet Jeff Gothelf; Lou and Jeff discuss bridging the gap between ritual and cultural change 7:44 - Good ideas without a clear understanding of why 9:42 - What it takes for organizations to successfully communicate and incentivize  15:21 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse 17:37 - Consultants validate insiders; AI shifts risk toward design clarity 24:20 - AI speeds output, but critical thinking, research, and testing prove designers’ value 27:50 - Jeff and Lou speculate on Amazon’s future 30:49 - Jeff’s gift for listeners   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Books by Jeff Gothelf https://jeffgothelf.com/books/  Ignorance by Milan Kundura https://www.amazon.com/Ignorance-Novel-Milan-Kundera/dp/0060002107    Quotes: “The types of conversations that we're having about good design, about good information architecture, about good research, about agility and customer centricity and all of those types of things, for some reason, those continue to be difficult conversations in organizations today.” “The risk of engineering is no longer a risk, not like it was not five years ago. It's going to get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. Where's the risk? The risk is in definition, vision, clarity, validation. In other words, it's in design, discovery, research, product management.” “The differentiation, the uniqueness, the creativity, the innovation is going to come from the critical thinking of the designers and the researchers who are actually doing the thinking before the prompt.”

Jen van der Meer’s career path is anything but linear—spanning comparative religion, working on Wall Street, internet startups, and design education. In this thoughtful and timely conversation, Jen shares how her liberal arts background shaped her global perspective, eventually leading her to leadership roles at Frog Design, startups, and now Parsons School of Design, where she co-directs the MFA in Transdisciplinary Design. Jen challenges designers to go beyond the narrow scope of their titles or craft. Instead of trying to “convince” other industries of design’s value, she argues that designers must step outside their professional comfort zones, learn new languages—especially finance—and see themselves as co-conspirators in systemic change. With today’s precarious job market and the erosion of traditional design roles, Jen offers a compelling vision for designers to build collective practices, join interdisciplinary communities, and find purpose in transforming complex systems like health, energy, and finance. Her advice to students and early-career professionals? Focus on a system that needs fixing and start connecting with others who care. What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why a degree in comparative religion gave Jen an edge in global finance How working on Wall Street pushed her toward systems-level design work Why design can’t change the world without engaging with business The importance of shifting from a role-based professional identity to a personal design practice How to build a resilient career by focusing on systems, not job titles Why transdisciplinary design programs may offer a model for the future of education   Quick Reference Guide: 0:15 - Meet Jen van der Meer  3:17 - Escaping finance for design 7:35 - Why designers should learn finance 11:44 - The challenges of blurred roles and learning the language of your sector and practice 14:33 – Jen’s job advice for students 19:57 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse 22:18 - Transdisciplinary design trends  29:11 - Possibilities within Jen’s Parsons program 32:33 - The realities of higher education today and scaling the transdisciplinary model of education 36:12 - Jen’s gift for listeners Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Parsons Studio https://www.newschool.edu/parsons/faculty/jen-van-der-meer/  Jen van der Meer’s website https://jenvandermeer.org  Rosenverse https://rosenverse.rosenfeldmedia.com/    Quotes: “Comparative religion is a fantastic entry point to navigating the world.” “That’s what I’ve been working on for the last 10 years. How can I see finance as design territory?” “We’re not here to convert people. We’re here to work together with other people to transform the systems that we’re in.”  “I think design pedagogy, studio practice, surveys, all of it is the answer to university education.”

AI isn’t just changing research tools—it’s reshaping how research itself happens. Lou chats with ResearchOps pioneer (and co-host of the upcoming inaugural UXR Tools Summit) Kate Towsey about the shift from linear workflows toward interconnected research systems where recruiting, knowledge management, repositories, and insights all function as part of a single ecosystem. Kate argues that future organizations will rely on “insights lakes,” structured collections of knowledge that anyone can query through AI interfaces, making research continuously accessible rather than locked behind reports. The discussion explores how tool vendors are evolving toward integrated platforms, why taxonomy and information architecture are even more essential in an AI-driven world, and how research operations professionals are becoming critical connectors across teams and technologies. Rather than replacing researchers, AI may free them to focus on identifying knowledge gaps and proactively generating insight. Kate ultimately offers an optimistic perspective: the future favors makers and experimenters—professionals willing to play, adapt, and help shape how AI is used responsibly within research practice. What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why research workflows are shifting from linear processes to interconnected systems How AI is enabling “insights lakes” that make organizational knowledge searchable and reusable The growing importance of taxonomy, metadata, and information architecture in AI-driven research Why research ops roles become more critical—not less—in an AI future How research tool ecosystems may evolve into both integrated platforms and specialized stacks Why experimentation, play, and maker mindsets are key skills for researchers navigating rapid change   Quick Reference Guide: 1:19 - Meet Kate Towsey 2:27 - About the UXR Tools Summit 3:56 - Participant recruitment is just one piece of research ops 9:01 - Research tooling shifting toward ecosystems, not single solutions 13:50 - Knowledge management evolves into AI-powered insights infrastructure 19:56 - 5 Reasons to use the Rosenverse 22:20 - AI sparks creative renewal for makers 28:13 - Kate’s gift for listeners   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Kate Towsey’s website https://katetowsey.com/ Research That Scales by Kate Towsey https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/research-that-scales/ Cha-Cha Club https://chacha.club/ Research Ops Review https://www.theresearchopsreview.com/ UXR Tools Summit https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/program/#tab=day-3 A Work in Progress by René Redzepi https://www.amazon.com/Work-Progress-Journal-Ren%C3%A9-Redzepi/dp/0714877549   Quotes: “Even with the power of AI, brilliance is going to be needed.”  “People who are makers by nature are having a whale of a time. They’re seeing lots of space for opportunity, for building, for reinventing.”   “It’s less about whether you’re a researcher or designer and more about whether you’re a maker and an experimenter.” “There needs to be an element of play — making mistakes and building things that don’t work.”

What happens when someone moves from government UX research to shaping research for the broader industry? Lou talks with Maria Rosala, Director of Research at Nielsen Norman Group, about her role, her career path, and the value of research repositories. Maria shares what it means to lead research at NN/g and how her experience as a UX researcher in the UK Home Office shaped her perspective on research maturity and real-world practice. They explore how research repositories help organizations surface knowledge, avoid duplicate work, and support collaboration—and why people and culture remain just as important as the tools. Maria also discusses how AI could make repositories more powerful by surfacing connections and insights.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: What the Director of Research role at Nielsen Norman Group involves How government UX work shaped Maria’s perspective on research maturity Why research repositories help organizations reuse and share knowledge Why research librarians and curators remain essential even with AI Where AI could improve research repositories in the future A book recommendation on qualitative research analysis   Quick Reference Guide: 0:10 - Meet Maria Rosala and learn about the UXR Tool Summit 3:23 - What it’s like being the research director of Nielsen-Norman 7:58 - Gauging and comparing research quality 10:18 - How the volume of research at Nielsen Norman compares to the Home Office in the UK 15:54 - What’s special about the Rosenverse and the Rosenbot 18:10 - What research repositories do for organizations 22:08 - Why we need both tools and a culture that is curious and collaborative 27:07 - Thoughts on surfacing and utilizing AI in defined, constrained spaces but with a human architect 33:31 - Maria’s gift for listeners   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: The Coding Manual for Qualitative Researchers by Johnny Saldana https://www.amazon.com/Coding-Manual-Qualitative-Researchers-Third/dp/1473902495  Advancing Research 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/    Quotes: “Because we're very small, we do have a lot of oversight of the research that we're doing.” “People would go through and critique the design and say, ‘Why have you designed it like that?’ And you would need to have a good reason.” “It's about ensuring that research can be consumed by not just the immediate team that are doing it to inform some of the key decisions that they're trying to make, but that it could potentially benefit others who might be thinking about that problem in a slightly different lens.” “I think people are going to continue to play an important role, regardless of AI implementations in curating and drawing connections.”

Survey research is in trouble—and Caroline Jarrett explains why. Returning to the podcast to preview the upcoming UXR Tools Summit, she and Lou Rosenfeld explore what’s really happening in the survey world and what researchers should be asking vendors right now. They discuss collapsing response rates driven by constant, low-value feedback requests and the growing sense that many surveys are performative rather than useful. Caroline argues for fewer, smaller, more targeted surveys that respect people’s time and actually lead to change. The conversation also tackles AI in research tools, from synthetic users to automated analysis, and why human judgment still matters. Caroline shares the key questions she plans to ask survey-tool vendors—especially around accessibility and panel management—and why researchers need better integration across tools and methods. She closes with a literacy-focused resource from the British Council tied to her passion for designing for people with low literacy.   What You'll Learn from this Episode: Why survey response rates keep dropping—and how bad “always-on” feedback requests damage the whole method How to make surveys feel less performative: smaller, targeted surveys and “question of the week” approaches Why the best surveys are often the ones you never see (because they’re sent to the right small sample) Caroline’s take on AI in research tools, including the risks of synthetic users and AI-only analysis of open ends The top questions Caroline wants survey-tool vendors to answer, especially about accessibility for researchers and respondents; and panel management and integration Why tool integration across methods (surveys + repositories + testing + recruitment + experimentation) matters—and what researchers should push vendors on Quick Reference Guide: 0:13 – Meet Caroline and learn her role in the Advancing Research Conference 5:13 - Recent trends that have impacted how research should design and run surveys 8:15 - When surveys feel routine and performative 10:18 - Areas of improvement in uptake and responses  13:58 - How AI is making a difference in designing surveys and analyzing data 18:55 - How vendors view the utilization of AI 23:58 - Why you need the Rosenverse 26:12 - Caroline’s questions for survey tool vendors 31:11 - Integration and triangulation 36:20 - Caroline’s gift for listeners Resources and Links from Today's Episode: Forms That Work - by Caroline Jarrett and Jerry Gaffney https://www.amazon.com/Forms-that-Work-Interactive-Technologies/dp/1558607102 Surveys That Work - by Caroline Jarrett https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/surveys-that-work/ Advancing Research and the UXR Tools Summit - March 10-12, 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/ British Council’s LearnEnglish’s restaurant menu page https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/skills/reading/a1-reading/restaurant-menu   Quotes: “This problem of being over-invited under usefulness of the survey experience is threatening the whole of survey research, and that trend has now started to affect national statistical agencies.” “A really well-designed survey will go to the smallest sample that is appropriate for the effect that you're trying to achieve.” “Do smaller surveys more often. Keep it small. Keep it frequent.”  “If you’re selling to people, you’re going to have to actually engage with people.”

Dana Chisnell and Christian Crumlish on the DOGE-ification of Civic Design When Dana Chisnell and Christian Crumlish took roles in U.S. federal agencies, they knew the work wouldn’t be easy. But what unfolded during their time under the second Trump administration went far beyond bureaucratic resistance. In this gripping conversation, they recount the painful dismantling of teams like 18F and the Department of Homeland Security’s Customer Experience Office—takedowns that were less about efficiency and service, and more about ideology and erasure. From executive orders scrubbing DEI language to gutting digital service teams and exfiltrating government data, they describe what it felt like to navigate a coordinated unraveling of public-serving infrastructure. Yet out of the ashes, a new civic design seeds are taking root. Christian and Dana reflect on what it means to build systems that endure, how to design for accountability, and where the next generation of mission-driven designers, researchers, and creators might focus their efforts. There’s urgency here, but also a throughline of resolve and resilience: the belief that better government is possible—and that good people are still fighting for it. What You'll Learn from this Episode: How design and research teams inside U.S. government agencies were dismantled under political pressure The tactics used to erase DEI and disability-facing efforts and language from federal operations Why civic tech and design teams need to plan for resilience—even under hostile leadership What it looks like to “exfiltrate” ethical infrastructure during a transition of power How former public servants are reshaping the civic tech ecosystem post–government Why designing for accountability matters as much as designing for access   Quick Reference Guide: 0:34 - Meet Christian and Dana 1:41 - A year ago, Dana resigns head of customer experience for DHS 3:03 - Christian’s experience with 18F and his firing by TTS 8:09 - Why Dana resigned from her position with the federal government 11:46 - Considering the motives of the current administration 17:31 - Why running public services like a business is a bad idea 26:06 - Advancing Research - March 10-11, 2026 27:07 - Stewart Brand’s pace layer model theory 30:09 - The future of product design in the public sector 39:30 - Dana’s and Christian’s gifts for listeners   Resources and Links from Today's Episode: University of Global Health Equity in Rwanda https://ughe.org/  https://www.linkedin.com/school/ughe/  Girl Scouts USA https://www.girlscouts.org/ Order Girl Scout cookies from trans girl scouts https://open.substack.com/pub/erininthemorn/p/2026-trans-girl-scouts-to-order-cookies?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web  Advancing Research - March 10-11, 2026  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/    Quotes: “ By firing us all at once, they inadvertently preserved our unity really well.” “There was a shared belief that we could still have the shared goal of making stuff work better and put politics aside and make some actual advantages.” “They thought..affirmative action..advantaged everybody except for white males. So nobody’s credentials are legitimate except white males. Everybody else has been boosted, and you have to discount them. It’s a bizarre thing that it’s the opposite of reality in many ways.” “It was a data heist. They exfiltrated private government data – public data but private information. It was theft of the sovereign data of the United States.” “I would argue that the government should not be run like a business. It is fundamentally a different thing.” “Government exists because there are things that humans need that cannot be provided by the private sector.”