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When does church leadership become spiritual manipulation? And how do you disagree with a pastor who says, “God told me”? Preston talks with New Testament scholar Joshua W. Jipp about how even well-meaning Christian leaders can cross the line from serving people to controlling them. Drawing on his book, How (Not) to Be a Tyrant, Josh explores what the Bible’s worst rulers reveal about power, ambition, and the temptation to use God’s authority to advance our own agendas. We discuss why charisma and results aren’t enough to identify a healthy leader, how fear can become a tool of control, and what makes Jesus’ approach to leadership radically different. We also wrestle with church leadership structures, Paul’s use of authority, Romans 13 and Revelation 13, and when Christians should submit, push back, or leave. Along the way, we consider the faithful pastors whose humility and service rarely make the headlines. Joshua W. Jipp (PhD, Emory University) is associate professor of New Testament at the University of Notre Dame. He is the author of several books, including his most recent book, How (Not) to Be a Tyrant: Ten Lessons on Life and Leadership from the Bible’s Worst Rulers (Brazos Press). CHAPTERS 00:00 When spiritual authority becomes control 00:39 Introducing Joshua W. Jipp 02:19 Why study the Bible’s worst rulers? 07:04 Leadership and power throughout the Bible 09:55 Did God want Israel to have a king? 13:32 Sponsors 15:53 The temptation facing well-meaning leaders 17:47 Using God to advance a leader’s agenda 18:59 Why success and charisma aren’t enough 23:16 Does the Bible prescribe a church leadership structure? 28:29 How can a servant leader exercise authority? 34:58 Subtle warning signs of controlling leadership 37:57 When disagreeing with a leader means disagreeing with God 39:46 Can other leaders genuinely push back? 40:59 How fear becomes a tool of control 42:18 Submitting to bad rulers: Romans 13 and Revelation 13 47:30 When should you push back on church leadership? 51:13 The faithful pastors who don’t make headlines See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Are Christians being fair in how we understand Islam? Palestinian Christian scholar Dr. Daniel Bannoura joins Preston Sprinkle to explore Islam and Christianity, religious violence, what the Quran says about Jesus, and the treatment of women. In the fourth and final episode of our Understanding Islam series, Daniel helps me process my conversations with Javad Hashmi, Gabriel Said Reynolds, and Fariza Gulomikova, including some of the pushback the series received. Daniel grew up in the West Bank and earned his PhD in Islamic Studies at Notre Dame, focusing on the biblical subtext of the Qur’an. We discuss the relationship between the Quran and Hadith, Islamic teachings about Jesus and the Trinity, and Daniel’s interpretation of the Quran’s passage on the crucifixion. We also wrestle with Christianity’s own history of justifying violence and how politics, culture, and education shape Muslim communities. And I press Daniel on whether Christianity and Islam offer distinct visions for the treatment of women. It’s a challenging conversation about real theological differences, our own assumptions, and what it means to love our Muslim neighbors faithfully. Watch or listen to Extra Innings at https://patreon.com/theologyintheraw, where Daniel and I tackle your questions: Is Islam animated by dark spiritual forces? Is it a Christian heresy or a separate religion? What can Christians learn from Muslims? And how should we respond to fears about Sharia law in America? CHAPTERS 00:00 A Palestinian Christian’s experience of violence 00:31 Understanding Islam: The series finale 02:22 Meet Dr. Daniel Bannoura 05:13 Learning to love Muslim neighbors 08:31 Reflecting on the Islam series 12:31 Was Javad Hashmi representative of Islam? 18:22 The Quran, Hadith, and Islamic scholarship 24:22 What does Islam teach about Jesus? 28:27 The Quran and the Trinity 30:08 Does the Quran deny Jesus’ crucifixion? 35:43 How religious traditions develop 38:14 Why focus on violence and women? 40:27 Comparing Christian and Muslim violence 44:30 Muslim diversity beyond the stereotypes 45:43 Colonialism, politics, and religious extremism 48:37 Women, culture, and education 52:08 Do Christianity and Islam treat women differently? 55:00 Jesus’ countercultural treatment of women 59:41 Your questions answered in Extra Innings See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Watch our Extra Innings conversation on Patreon, where John Mark Comer shares his evolving views on women in church leadership and the questions he’s still wrestling with: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw What is constant noise doing to our souls? And why can being alone with God feel so uncomfortable? John Mark Comer joins Preston to discuss his latest book, Into the Quiet: Following Jesus in a World of Noise. We explore how noise affects our capacity to love God and others, what surfaced during John Mark’s 21-day solitude retreat, and why silence often brings us face-to-face with the pain we’ve been avoiding. John Mark also shares why quiet doesn’t come naturally to him, how to practice solitude within the demands of everyday life, the difference between solitude and loneliness, and the surprising structure of the small church he helps pastor. John Mark Comer is the New York Times bestselling author of eight books, including Practicing the Way, which was named the 2025 Christian Book of the Year by the ECPA, and The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, which has sold more than a million copies and been translated into over 20 languages. His latest book is Into the Quiet: Following Jesus in a World of Noise, which forms the basis of our conversation. John Mark is a pastor and the founder of Practicing the Way, an organization working to see the renewal of apprenticeship to Jesus in our time. CHAPTERS 00:00 Why solitude is so hard 00:49 Introducing John Mark Comer 03:57 Running, ministry, and friendship 07:24 Why your body matters for spiritual formation 10:27 Writing theology that people can understand 12:53 Noise is a threat to our souls 13:48 Sponsors 15:45 How noise affects our bodies and relationships 21:47 John Mark’s 21-day solitude retreat 24:32 What we learn when distractions are stripped away 27:36 Jesus’ rhythm of retreat and return 30:49 Becoming a person of quiet in an anxious world 34:45 Solitude for busy people and extroverts 38:39 Finding quiet within the life you actually have 42:08 The difference between solitude and loneliness 44:56 Inside John Mark’s small church community 47:51 Extra Innings: Women in church leadership See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Watch our Extra Innings conversation by joining the Theology in the Raw Patreon community: https://patreon.com/theologyintheraw What happens when the story you grew up believing meets the people whose voices were missing from it? Peter Beinart joins Preston to discuss how spending time with Palestinians challenged his understanding of Israel, Jewish identity, and the relationship between safety and freedom. They explore his experience of October 7, the history of Palestinian displacement, his comparison with apartheid South Africa, and why he believes the conflict is bigger than Hamas. Peter also reflects on the personal cost of challenging his community’s assumptions and why he argues that nationalism can become a form of idolatry. Peter is Professor of Journalism and Political Science at the Newmark School of Journalism at the City University of New York, a contributing opinion writer at The New York Times, Editor-at-Large of Jewish Currents, an MS NOW political commentator, and a Non-Resident Fellow at the Foundation for Middle East Peace. He writes the Beinart Notebook newsletter on Substack. His latest book, Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza: A Reckoning, is a New York Times bestseller and winner of the PEN/John Kenneth Galbraith Award for Nonfiction. Chapters 00:00 Introduction08:00 Peter’s experience of October 710:35 Rethinking Israel after meeting Palestinians13:52 The history Peter grew up believing18:44 Understanding 1948: Independence and the Nakba23:43 Grieving October 7 and opposing Israel’s response26:40 Why this conflict is bigger than Hamas32:01 Lessons from apartheid South Africa35:05 Why Peter calls Israel’s system apartheid40:59 America’s role and support for Israel45:19 The personal cost of speaking out48:19 Judaism, Zionism, and nationalism as idolatry52:47 Is there hope for equality and freedom?56:29 Extra Innings: American evangelicals and Israel See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What happens when immigrants who came to the U.S. legally lose their status and face deportation? And what happens to their American-born children when the country their parents could be sent to is considered too dangerous to visit? Matthew Soerens joins Preston to unpack some of the biggest questions and misconceptions surrounding immigration. Why don’t immigrants just come legally? Do undocumented immigrants take American jobs? What does the evidence say about immigration and violent crime? And how should Christians weigh respect for the law alongside the biblical commands to love our neighbors and welcome strangers? Matthew Soerens is World Relief’s vice president of advocacy and policy and is the co-author of three books: Welcoming the Stranger (InterVarsity Press, 2018), Inalienable (InterVarsity Press, 2022), and Seeking Refuge (Moody Publishers, 2026), which just released a second edition. Matt also serves as the National Coordinator for the Evangelical Immigration Table, a coalition that advocates for immigration reforms consistent with biblical values. Chapters: 0:00 Haitian families and the danger of separation 0:44 How should Christians think about immigration? 5:15 Starting with Scripture, not party talking points 10:34 Romans 13 and changing legal status 12:38 What’s happening to Haitian families in Springfield? 18:51 Why was temporary protected status withdrawn? 21:25 What can churches do for affected families? 23:58 Can people with temporary status apply to stay? 26:42 Why don’t immigrants just come legally? 35:54 Do immigrants take American jobs? 41:46 What about undocumented immigrants and the economy? 48:36 A proposed path to make things right 51:00 Do immigrants commit more violent crime? 55:25 What would mass deportation mean for the church? 58:26 What do evangelical Christians actually believe? 1:00:54 Seeking Refuge and the global refugee crisis See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Join the Theology in the Raw Patreon Community to Watch our Extra Innings! https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw Is the Book of Revelation a roadmap to the future, or was it meant to help Christians see their own world more clearly? New Testament scholar David deSilva joins Preston to walk through Revelation from the seven churches to the New Jerusalem. They discuss why John wrote to real communities living under the Roman Empire, what the throne room reveals about Jesus’ authority, and how the seals, trumpets, and bowls speak to suffering, judgment, and faithful witness. They also explore Revelation’s critique of empire and political allegiance. What did “Babylon” mean to John’s first readers? What does it mean to “come out of Babylon” today? And which parts of Revelation should Christians understand as future hope? Dr. David deSilva is an ordained elder in the Florida Conference of the GMC and has served as Professor of New Testament and Greek at Ashland Theological Seminary since 1995. He is the author of forty books, including Seeing Things John's Way and his recently released Archaeology and the Revelation of John. Chapters 0:00 Introduction 5:12 Who Was Revelation Written For? 10:21 Who Was John? 12:11 Jesus and the Seven Churches 16:19 Prophecy and John’s Authority 20:40 The Real Cities Behind the Seven Churches 26:49 Revelation, Empire, and Political Allegiance 35:19 Speaking Prophetically to Our Own Political Side 40:25 The Throne Room: Who Is Really in Charge? 46:21 What Does the Scroll Represent? 49:05 The Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls 55:17 Is Reading Revelation as Prediction Overrated? 58:34 How Should We Read Revelation Today? 1:02:44 Babylon and the Roman Empire 1:10:14 What Does “Come Out of Babylon” Mean? 1:13:23 The New Jerusalem and Revelation’s Future Hope See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Join the Patreon Community: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw Fariza Gulomikova grew up in a Shia Ismaili family in Tajikistan. As a child, she saw how much a person could lose by leaving Islam. Then her cousin became a Christian, and the kindness she encountered at his church challenged everything she thought she knew about Christians. In part three of our Understanding Islam series, Fariza tells Preston about her childhood, her encounter with Jesus at age 11, her family’s response to her conversion, and the challenges of starting over in the United States. She also shares what she wishes Christians understood about their Muslim neighbors. Chapters 0:00 Fariza’s decision to become a Christian 0:32 Introduction to part three of Understanding Islam 2:23 Growing up in Tajikistan during a civil war 5:31 Sunni, Shia, and Fariza’s Ismaili background 12:22 Growing up as a girl in a Muslim majority country 17:47 The pressures and dangers Fariza saw women face 26:41 Fariza’s people, language, and culture 29:10 Her childhood view of Christianity 31:34 The cousin who changed her view of Christians 33:32 The kindness that drew her toward Jesus 34:30 Fariza’s encounter with Jesus at age 11 36:45 What she was taught about Jesus in Islam 38:44 Fariza’s advice for Christians talking with Muslims 43:39 How her family responded to her conversion 47:33 Starting over in America 52:28 Islam, terrorism, and stereotypes 55:28 Searching for belonging in Christian communities 58:41 Fariza’s final word to Christians See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Join the Theology in the Raw community to hear Preston’s Extra Innings response to this conversation. How does the Qur’an compare to the Bible? Do Muslims read it the way evangelical Christians read the Bible? And if the Qur’an is Islam’s sacred text, why are the Hadith so important for understanding what Muslims believe and how they live? In part two of our series on Islam, Preston sits down with Dr. Gabriel Said Reynolds, a Catholic Qur’an scholar and the Crowley Professor of Islamic Studies and Theology at the University of Notre Dame. He earned his Ph.D. from Yale University and is the author of The Qur’an and Its Biblical Subtext, The Qur’an and the Bible, and Christianity and the Qur’an. Together, they explore how Muslims understand the Qur’an, where it came from, how it took shape, and how its form and use compare with the Bible. They also discuss Muhammad’s relationship to the Qur’an, the early Islamic conquests, passages concerning violence and women, and why reading the Qur’an by itself does not necessarily tell you how Muslims will interpret or apply it. Gabriel’s books explore how the Qur’an engages earlier scriptures and what that relationship can tell us about the emergence of Islam. His latest book, Christianity and the Qur’an, was published by Yale University Press in 2025. You can find more of Gabriel’s work on his YouTube channel, Exploring the Qur’an and the Bible. CHAPTERS 00:00 Why reading the Quran alone isn’t enough 00:42 Introducing Dr. Gabriel Said Reynolds 02:15 How Gabriel began studying Islam 05:31 What is the Quran? 09:03 Where did the Quran come from? 12:24 Did Muhammad write the Quran? 14:13 How does the Quran compare to the Bible and Psalms? 19:13 The biggest differences between the Quran and the Bible 21:42 Violence and the early Islamic conquests 27:10 How early Muslims treated Christians and other conquered peoples 32:29 Does the Quran command violence? 39:32 How Muslims interpret difficult Quranic passages 43:28 Is Islam inherently violent? 47:25 What does the Quran say about women? 49:58 Polygamy and the disputed passage about striking wives 52:29 Modesty, honor, and women in Muslim societies 59:07 What are the Hadith, and why do they matter? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Join the Theology in the Raw community to listen to my "Extra Innings" response to my conversation with Javad. What do Christians misunderstand about Islam? Is it inherently violent? Was it spread by the sword? What do Muslims believe about Christians, Sharia, women, the Quran, and the Hadith? In the first episode of our three-part series on Islam, Preston sits down with Dr. Javad Hashmi, a Muslim scholar and PhD candidate in Islamic Studies at Harvard University. The conversation explores the origins of Islam, what historians can know about Muhammad, the development of the Quran and Hadith, Sunni and Shia Islam, Sharia, early Muslim-Christian relations, Islamic empires, religious violence, ISIS and al-Qaeda, the treatment of women, and how Muslims view Christians and Americans. This conversation is not intended to settle every question or present one definitive account of Islam. It is an attempt to listen carefully, understand Islam’s internal diversity, and ask difficult questions without reducing an entire religious tradition to slogans or stereotypes. This is Part 1 of our series, Understanding Islam. CHAPTERS 00:00 Does the Quran Promote Violence? 00:43 What Is Islam, Really? 05:21 Introducing Dr. Javad Hashmi 06:32 How to Understand Any Religion 12:41 Muhammad and the Origins of Islam 23:40 Early Muslim-Christian Relations 29:16 Was Islam Spread by the Sword? 42:30 Sunni, Shia, and Sufi Islam 49:50 Core Beliefs and Sharia 55:46 The Quran Versus the Hadith 1:04:36 Islam, Violence, and Terrorism 1:15:41 Islam and Women 1:27:03 How Muslims View Christians and Americans 1:32:22 Closing See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Who decided what a “good woman” should look like? Long before social media, paintings, sculptures, religious images, and other forms of visual culture were shaping our expectations of women. Those images did not merely reflect society. They helped define beauty, sexuality, motherhood, virtue, and even what Christians imagined a godly woman should be. Dr. Elissa Yukiko Weichbrodt is an art historian (Ph.D. from Washington University) and is a professor of art and art history at Covenant College. She’s also the author of two books: the award-winning Redeeming Vision: A Christian Guide to Looking at and Learning from Art (Baker Academic 2023) and her recent book Look Like a Lady: Five Visual Tropes of Womanhood and How to See Ourselves Differently (Brazos 2026), which forms the basis of our conversation today. Chapters: 00:00 The Desire to Be Desirable 00:41 What Is a Woman? 03:39 Meet Elissa Yukiko Weichbrodt 06:16 How Art Shapes Christian Theology 09:58 Why Medieval Jesus Looks Like a Little Man 14:22 Five Images of Womanhood 15:20 The Venus Trope and Sexual Desirability 18:10 Why Women Learn to See Themselves as Objects 23:21 Purity Culture and the Objectification of Women 28:37 Mary, Elizabeth, and a Better Way of Seeing 33:35 The Myth of the Perfect Mother 38:02 How the Reformation Changed Womanhood 43:44 Are Women Competing for God’s Love? 46:27 Infertility, Motherhood, and Female Identity 49:30 “Is Something Wrong With Me?” 52:24 Do Fathers Get More of a Free Pass? 54:45 How Women Become “Monsters” 59:47 Does the Church Still Vilify Women? 63:45 Shaped by Trauma, Not Defined by It 65:36 A Bigger Vision of Christian Womanhood See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Are parents accidentally making their kids more anxious by protecting them from discomfort? Dr. Chinwé Williams joins Preston to explain why anxiety, depression, loneliness, and social avoidance have risen among young people. They discuss the role of smartphones and social media, the disappearance of real-world community, constant exposure to frightening news, trauma, pornography, and the pressure many kids feel to avoid failure. Dr. Chinwé Williams is a Licensed and Board-Certified therapist with expertise spanning a variety of domains, including youth and family mental health, parenting & and trauma recovery. Chinwé has served in academic, corporate, school, and faith-based work settings. She’s also the co-author of the best-selling book Seen: Healing Despair and Anxiety in Kids and Teens Through the Power of Connection and her latest book is: Calm, Courageous, and Connected: A Parent's Guide to Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids Chapters: 0:00 Avoidance Is Feeding Kids’ Anxiety 2:20 Is the Youth Mental Health Crisis Real? 5:30 What Is Causing the Mental Health Crisis? 8:08 What Social Media Is Taking Away From Kids 9:32 Why Kids Need “Third Spaces” 12:41 Are Kids Becoming Afraid to Take Risks? 16:54 Why Teens Struggle With Social Anxiety 20:04 How Avoidance Makes Anxiety Worse 21:15 Building Grit and Emotional Resilience 23:58 How Parents Accidentally Reinforce Anxiety 26:22 How Parents’ Childhood Wounds Shape Their Parenting 29:57 Fear, Bad News, and the “Milk Carton Generation” 35:10 Trauma, Sexual Abuse, and Pornography 43:30 How Parents Can Help Anxious Kids 44:04 Co-Regulation and Connection Before Correction 48:30 Teaching Kids Cognitive Flexibility 51:12 The “Grace Check” 52:42 Healthy Smartphone and Social Media Boundaries 55:41 Who Could Your Teen Call at 2 A.M.? 56:29 Calm, Courageous, and Connected See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey friends, Check out the top voted questions from my September Q & A! For the full episode, join the Theology in the Raw Patreon Community at https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw Here's the full list of Questions: 00:59 Isn’t it unfair to consider gay-affirming Christians “outside the fold” when pro-war Christians have an equally unbiblical view, but are not treated as such?09:15 Prophecy of male birth aside, could Jesus have been female and still died for the sins of the world?13:21 Assuming a view of Jesus with literal brothers, sons of Mary, why do you think Jesus at the cross entrusted the care of Mary to John and not to his literal brothers?15:45 My mother-in-law is a hospice nurse and had a patient request that she be present at their medically assisted suicide. My mother-in-law would not administer anything, but should she go?17:40 Are David and Jonathan and Ruth and Naomi good biblical kinship examples of modern same-sex celibate partnerships?20:11 I really appreciated your two discussions of biblical masculinity. Any further thoughts or takeaways after you’ve had some time to mull over the conversations?24:11 How is it that believers, all with the Spirit guiding them, come to such opposing conclusions? How can we be confident we know what God is actually saying or leading us to?27:03 After a decade at a fast-growing church, should I be concerned that I don’t feel rooted or have a role, while later arrivals become deacons and become known by the leaders?28:11 Do Job’s speeches function as valid lament for Christians, or are they out of bounds? Some of his statements are pretty intense.31:09 Would you ever consider having a Christian polygamist on your show? I’ve seen a lot more recently. I strongly disagree, but would love a real back-and-forth.33:27 How would you explain the doctrine of the Trinity to a nonbeliever or a child? How does it make sense that the Son doesn’t know the day or time of the end?37:33 Is communion in the Bible always done with the group eating from a common loaf and drinking from a common cup? If so, should that be the standard practice today?42:18 Is Satan God’s enemy or just ours? If we fail a test, is it Satan’s fault or the proctor’s fault? Was Satan upset when Jesus and Job passed the test? Is the Satan of Job and Matthew 4 the same as Revelation?44:22 In thinking about friendship as an intimate relationship, what is the place of physical affection? What is cultural versus biblical, especially for men? How do we get there?47:32 What do you think of Greg Boyd’s cruciform hermeneutic of Old Testament violence described in The Crucifixion of the Warrior God?50:35 My son asks what we know about angels and archangels from the Old Testament versus pop culture. What do Judaism and Christianity say about ranks, personhood, and the reason for their creation?53:59 Does a Genesis-first hermeneutic in Matthew 19 imply Christians should be vegetarian as New Eden people, like Adam and Eve? Also, Isaiah 11.58:37 Do Jews and Christians worship the same God, or does the incarnation fundamentally change who God is? I still feel unclear.1:00:40 In 1 Timothy 3:2, one of the qualifications for an elder is “able to teach,” which doesn’t appear for deacons or women. Is this a good argument against women teaching?1:04:19 What’s the likelihood that Paul was married and subsequently widowed or divorced? I’ve heard that to be a Pharisee, he would have had to be married. Is this true?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What if Christian unity doesn’t mean agreeing about everything? Pricelis Perreaux-Dominguez joins Preston to discuss the difference between genuine Christian unity and the false peace created by forced agreement. Drawing from her new book, False Peace, Pricelis explains why sameness can silence people, erase meaningful differences, and prevent churches from addressing conflict honestly. They discuss political and theological disagreement within the church, pastoring a diverse congregation in the Bronx, creating a church culture that welcomes criticism, and deciding which doctrines Christians should divide over. In the Patreon-exclusive Extra Innings segment, Preston and Pricelis continue the conversation by discussing women in church leadership, Pricelis’s journey toward becoming an ordained pastor, and how she maintains meaningful relationships with Christians who strongly disagree with her. Join the Theology in the Raw Patreon community to listen to Extra Innings: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw Learn more about Pricelis and her book, False Peace: How to Reject the Lie of Sameness, Embrace Difference, and Embody True Unity: https://www.pricelispd.com/my-books See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does the Bible really mean by modesty, and why have Christian conversations about clothing so often produced shame, especially for women and teenage girls? Dr. Sandra Richter is a renown biblical scholar, author, and professor of Old Testament at Westmont College. The 2nd edition of her killer book, The Epic of Eden, releases in November 2026. Sandy is also a faithful mom, and one of her daughters, Noël Tsoukalas, joins us in this conversation about modesty. Noël is a Pop singer-songwriter and worship leader. She made a name for herself on Season 21 of American Idol, where she received a golden ticket and three “yeses” from celebrity judges Katy Perry, Lionel Richie, and Luke Bryan. Check out her music on Spotify! 00:00:00 “Your Outfit Is Causing My Husband to Stumble” 00:06:55 Sandy & Noel on Modesty and Purity Culture 00:12:50 How the Church Has Mishandled Modesty 00:18:10 Sandy’s Experience with Christian Dress Codes 00:21:26 When Modesty Culture Makes Girls’ Bodies “Public Property” 00:27:21 The Billy Graham Rule and Women in Church Leadership 00:32:21 What Does Biblical Modesty Actually Look Like? 00:36:18 Body Shaming and Modesty in the Church 00:38:26 Teaching Girls to Set Boundaries with Church Leaders 00:42:51 Should Churches Have Dress Codes? 00:51:26 Body Types and the Subjectivity of Modesty 00:53:36 What Does Modesty Look Like for Men? 00:56:28 Biblical Modesty Is About More Than Sexuality 00:59:12 Double Standards for Men and Women at Christian Camps 01:01:41 How Should Christian Camps Handle Swimsuit Dress Codes? 01:06:15 Does Modesty Culture Discourage Women from Ministry? 01:08:30 Social Media, Body Image, and Female Musicians 01:11:30 Healing from Shame Around Modesty and Purity Culture 01:14:05 Who Should Talk to Women About Their Clothing? 01:15:20 Forrest Frank and Cory Asbury make the internet stumble See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Colleen Ramser is an EMDR-certified licensed professional counselor (LPC) who specializes in trauma, particularly the effects of spiritual abuse, domestic abuse, and complex trauma. She’s a survivor of spiritual trauma, which she talks about in the show, and she’s the author of the book The Shattered Soul: Restoring Wholeness and Rebuilding Your Faith After Spiritual Trauma, which addresses a lot of the things we discuss in this fasciainating conversation. 00:00 Why Spiritual Trauma Can Make Faith Feel Impossible 00:30 Introduction 02:52 What Qualifies as Trauma? 05:49 Trauma vs. PTSD 07:46 Resilience, Support, and Post-Traumatic Growth 17:06 What Is Spiritual Trauma? 21:00 Colleen’s Experience with Spiritual Abuse 31:18 Signs and Symptoms of Spiritual Trauma 32:48 How Spiritual Trauma Affects Pastors and Church Leaders 39:14 Recognizing and Treating Spiritual Trauma 41:20 Healing Trauma and Rebuilding Your Faith 46:06 Complex Spiritual Trauma vs. Theological Disagreement 49:46 Is the Term “Spiritual Abuse” Overused? 57:30 Are Churches Getting Better at Addressing Abuse? 63:24 Jesus, Power, and the Fruit of the Spirit See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.