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Today, Mike, Tim and Suzie wrestle with two difficult questions: How should Christians respond to public cruelty and political turmoil? And how can church leaders avoid using power to heal their own wounds? The conversation moves from the death penalty and immigration enforcement to Jesus’ teaching on peace, then turns to humility, vulnerability, and spiritual abuse. They consider why “turn the other cheek” is not a call to passivity, how anger might become fuel for healing rather than outrage, and why local community matters for discernment and action. The conversation also examines the temptations of spiritual leadership: status, performance, and the difference between transparency and real vulnerability. Chapters 00:00 Fall break banter and hurricane jokes 04:18 The death penalty and public execution 06:22 A son’s reaction to televised violence 08:04 Burnout and the strain of constant political vigilance 09:51 Jesus, peace, and the tension between nonviolence and resistance 13:17 Turning the other cheek as creative goodness, not passivity 15:15 Local community and faithful action 17:07 Why political solutions aren’t the whole answer 19:40 The limits of election-cycle thinking 21:25 Staying local amid overwhelming news 22:26 Anger, the internet, and protecting your attention 32:34 Setting boundaries around news and social media 36:04 The conversation turns to spiritually abusive leadership 36:59 Siblingship instead of status and privilege 38:27 Refusing social prestige and choosing low honor 39:25 Hiddenness and performative piety 40:22 Paul as a model of taking the lowest place 43:45 The practice of showing genuine need 44:44 Three steps toward becoming like the Pharisees 47:05 Judgment, discernment, and empathy 48:37 When humility becomes a performance 51:07 Transparency versus real vulnerability 55:45 Wounds, motives, and church leadership 59:52 Preparing to teach without making the platform the center 64:17 Suzie on pressure, trust, and teaching 70:48 How to discern whose wounds a leader is trying to heal As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Warning: Strong Language. This episode opens with a critique of political religious rhetoric, then turns to sexual abuse, church complicity, and why image-bearing, body theology, and accountability matter. The conversation also explores Matthew 23 and Jesus’ warnings about religious performance, status-seeking, and spiritual abuse in leadership. Mike, Tim, and Suzie react to Pete Hegseth’s religious language and discuss how quoting Psalm 33 and Isaiah 6 out of context can be used to baptize militarism, and then connect the Cornell University sexual assault story to broader questions of human dignity, trauma, and the failure of men and institutions to intervene. CHAPTERS: 00:00 — Opening banter and setting up the episode 02:20 — Political religion, military rhetoric, and the Bible 04:11 — Psalm 33 in context: the verses left out 06:15 — “The real battle is spiritual” and the danger of baptizing war language 08:14 — The Psalm’s corrective: war horses do not save 10:25 — Isaiah 6 misused as a war cry 11:12 — The “Office of Religious Affairs” and state religion 13:20 — Why they keep speaking up: record-keeping, mockery, and moral witness 15:19 — The Cornell assault story and why it matters to churches 16:05 — Image-bearing, trauma response, and taking assault seriously 17:36 — Women defending themselves in every space 19:00 — Why men’s silence is part of the problem 20:59 — Purity culture, gendered blame, and church complicity 24:29 — Sexual ethics and a theology of the body 26:28 — Matthew 23 and Jesus’ warnings about spiritually abusive leaders 28:20 — Religious performance, rank, and status 31:14 — Phylacteries and tassels: symbols turned into self-display 35:05 — Banquets, synagogue seats, and public honor 37:19 — A modern reading of Jesus’ critique of abusive leadership 39:54 — Titles, respect, and the difference between function and self-importance 42:28 — Authority culture and the weight given to pastoral input 45:20 — Form, function, and missing Jesus’ point 47:00 — Jesus’ correction: one teacher, one father, one Messiah 50:55 — Luke 14: take the lowest seat, not the place of honor 52:51 — Vocational ministry and the pull of visibility 55:44 — Matthew 6: giving, praying, and fasting without being seen 57:36 — Church structures, hierarchy, and hard questions 60:20 — Momentum, affirmation, and why leaders need mental health care 61:48 — Staying close to the poor as a guardrail against status addiction 64:33 — Mike’s personal practices for humility and hiddenness 67:27 — Trusting communities and cultures over charismatic individuals 69:53 — Closing thanks and sign-off As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

The best way to expose spiritual abuse is not by making Christianity smaller, but by making it more like Jesus. This episode follows a lively three-way conversation with Mike, Tim Stafford, and Suzie P. Lind about complementarianism, spiritual abuse, and what Jesus means by mercy over sacrifice. The discussion also widens into how churches create heavy loads through subculture, calling, gender roles, and expectations around community.They move from a listener email about complementarianism into a broader argument about how Jesus frees people instead of exhausting them with rule systems. Along the way, they connect Sabbath controversies, neighbor-love, and the body metaphor in First Corinthians to the everyday ways Christians can either burden or bless one another. Timestamps00:00 - Opening banter and political outrage over absurd public symbolism 03:31 - Listener email on complementarianism as a whole worldview 06:10 - Suzie on how deconstruction is often the real “choice” 10:46 - Tim questions racial and global inconsistencies in complementarian teaching 15:36 - Heavy loads, Pharisaical teaching, and Jesus’ mercy framework 18:31 - What mercy over sacrifice could look like for neighbors with different identities 22:20 - Healing on the Sabbath and the shriveled hand story 24:52 - “It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath” as Jesus’ core principle 25:51 - How spiritually abusive systems add rules, shame, and fear 30:57 - Opposite of loads: blessing and empowering people 32:30 - Ways churches imply you must swallow everything or not belong 35:26 - “Gift projection” and forcing your calling onto everyone else 36:59 - The myth of “full-time ministry” versus ordinary Christian vocation 40:47 - Unity as family, not uniformity 42:17 - Turning implications into commands, like “your body is a temple” 43:17 - Examining our own hearts before calling out the load we place on others 46:27 - Redefining gospel, salvation, and what “first importance” really means 48:34 - When theological nuance leaves people unable to read Scripture with confidence 50:13 - Confession and accountability as communal, not individual, work 51:30 - First Corinthians and the body metaphor as a better model for discipleship 53:21 - Justice, guilt, and how load-bearing can happen even in good intentions 54:43 - How “we’re not program-driven” can still burden people differently 56:19 - Enneagram, temperament, and center-set community across differences 58:14 - Introverts, presence, and why every body part matters 60:09 - Closing reflections on the brutal beauty of community in First Corinthians As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

This episode opens with a lively point counterpoint about whether Christianity has failed, then moves into a thoughtful listener question about complementarianism, egalitarianism, and why some disagreements feel anything but friendly. From there, the conversation shifts into a teaching-heavy look at Matthew 11 and 12, where Jesus’ “easy yoke” is unpacked as mercy over burden, not zero-effort religion. Mike, Tim Stafford, and Suzie each bring a distinct voice: Mike steers the theology and text, Tim presses the conversation from a justice and power angle, and Suzie names the lived experience of women navigating church systems. Timestamps00:00 - Cold open: “Christianity has failed” 03:45 - A listener question on complementarianism and why the disagreement feels fake to some women 09:21 - Susie’s response: friendship, trust, and why fellowship has levels 12:20 - The danger of treating everything as first importance or nothing as important 14:42 - Why the biblical case for women in leadership still matters missionally 16:09 - Women in leadership, abuse culture, and why hierarchy can create bad fruit 17:45 - Tim’s alt festival update and the conversation shifts into what kinds of churches he will not attend 18:43 - Why churches that marginalize people are non starters 22:23 - The “slippery slope” argument cuts both ways 23:30 - Matthew 23: heavy loads, hypocrisy, and spiritual abuse 24:57 - Torah was a gift, not the burden Jesus condemned 26:23 - Sabbath, Jubilee, and the radical generosity of Torah 28:51 - Matthew 11: the context for Jesus’ invitation to rest 34:42 - “Come to me” and the burden of the Pharisees 37:06 - Susie on legalism, hustle culture, and the simplicity we complicate 39:40 - “Come to me”: a rabbinic invitation to become Jesus’ student 41:11 - What a yoke meant in rabbinic teaching 44:22 - Why the crowds did not fully understand Jesus at first 46:24 - Status, knowledge, and why learnedness can become a burden 47:22 - Jesus as gentle and humble in heart 49:46 - “Easy” does not mean effortless 52:39 - Matthew 12 begins: Sabbath, hunger, and grain fields 55:22 - Why Sabbath became a major identity marker after exile 57:19 - The written Torah versus the oral tradition 58:45 - David and the consecrated bread 59:43 - Priests working on the Sabbath and Jesus’ greater-than-the-temple claim 61:13 - “I desire mercy, not sacrifice” 62:10 - How Jesus reveals the true nature of Torah 66:41 - Sabbath was made for humans, not humans for Sabbath 68:24 - Torah as a shape for mercy, not a cage against mercy 69:47 - Teaser for next week: mercy, sacrifice, and modern spiritual abuse 71:43 - Annie Dillard’s warning about the power invoked in church As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Mike, Tim, and Suzie begin with a reflection on the 25th anniversary of 9/11, then move into a wide-ranging conversation about AI risk, political despair, and the church’s role in a polarized culture. The episode keeps returning to one central concern: if the gospel is reduced to a legal transaction, it can produce hypocrisy instead of transformation. This is an episode about grief, discernment, and the cost of misreading the gospel. It’s also about hope that is not tied to elections, institutions, or tech promises - but to formation, courage, and the ordinary work of becoming more like Jesus. CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Weather, Halloween decorations, and the opening banter 02:04 - Marking the 25th anniversary of 9/11 02:52 - Suzie on where she was when the attacks began 04:05 - Tim’s dorm room memory and the campus response 05:07 - Remembering the shock before social media and nonstop news 06:22 - The helpers, national unity, and the emotional whiplash 07:59 - Pat Tillman and the post-9/11 heroic imagination 08:22 - What 9/11 changed in America 10:39 - Why AI suddenly feels terrifying 11:07 - Anthropic’s own warning about recursive self-improvement 12:00 - A former Anthropic researcher resigns and sounds the alarm 13:26 - Real-world misuse of AI by governments and criminal actors 15:44 - Tim on why AI fear is not just hype 16:41 - Deepfakes, stolen art, and the erosion of trust 17:41 - Why AI cannot replace human experience or care 19:01 - Suzie on shifting from skepticism to concern 20:29 - Why regulation lags behind technology and profit 21:59 - Feeling overwhelmed and the urge to prepare 22:30 - Groceries, supply chains, and practical anxiety 23:22 - Satire, Trump, and the absurdity of political power 26:31 - What is the church supposed to do now? 29:37 - Tim on community, school board elections, and hope 30:27 - The church’s role in the failures of the last 25 years 33:53 - Suzie on Christians causing harm and doing good side by side 35:45 - Church leadership, politics, and speaking up for human dignity 38:22 - Naming reality, grieving propaganda, and carrying hope 39:48 - Why the legal-only gospel enables hypocrisy 42:42 - Poking around the courtroom metaphor 44:35 - The DMV analogy and salvation as a pop quiz 45:30 - Why belief without transformation leaves room for contradiction 46:38 - What Mike means by “demonic” corruption of the gospel 49:35 - Repentance, transformation, and formation into Christlikeness 50:43 - Tim on freedom, peer pressure, and teaching tools instead of just rules 53:54 - Emotional immaturity, family-of-origin wounds, and self-protection 55:23 - Defining family, illumination, and the mercy of being found out 57:54 - Salvation as participation, covenant, and faithfulness 59:05 - Marriage vows as something embodied over time 60:01 - Why the church needs a gospel that naturally leads to formation 62:01 - Nature, sunsets, breathing, and not surrendering to exhaustion 64:40 - A final joke about judgment, rapture, and cultural milestones As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

In this episode, Mike, Suzie and Tim discuss how American Christianity can reward false selves, why being “found out” can actually be mercy, and how confession is less about shame management and more about restoration, integration, and real connection. Together, they unpack why American Christianity rewards the false self, why imposter syndrome is often a symptom of a broken system, and how “being found out” can be a form of grace instead of punishment. If you’ve ever felt the pressure to look certain, sound authoritative, or keep the real mess hidden, this episode will feel uncomfortably familiar in the best way. Timestamps 00:00 - Voxology welcome and naming the team 02:49 - Wendell Berry, privilege, and the Subversive Witness book club 03:19 - Berry on freedom, affluence, and community 04:55 - Suzie reads “The Peace of Wild Things” 05:49 - Mike reads “I Dream of a Quiet Man” 06:47 - Fear-based politics and “what happens to the church?” 10:53 - Hypocrisy, imposter syndrome, and why it matters for teachers 13:15 - Suzie on weekly prep anxiety and co-learning 17:14 - Timothy on the performative church system 20:38 - Why the false self gets rewarded 23:58 - Therapy, the “glittering image,” and the good bad split 26:49 - The impossible job description placed on pastors 32:30 - “Everything hidden will be disclosed” 34:50 - Found out as grace, not just judgment 36:43 - Mercy, judgment, and praying children are caught before harm 39:26 - Sex, consequences, and a new way to think about judgment 42:21 - Confession as more than stamping 1 John 1:9 on a problem 46:41 - Examen as a practice of noticing God’s presence and absence 48:33 - How confession has changed over time 50:26 - Sin as obstacle to fullness, not just rule-breaking 54:01 - Finding a non-threatening place to tell the truth 55:56 - Privacy versus secrecy 57:13 - 12-step confession, healing, and accountability 61:00 - Shame, connection, and being loved in weakness 62:13 - Jesus’ warning about hypocrisy and spiritual abuse 64:09 - Why the gospel also addresses how we live, not just what happens after death 65:58 - Humanity, restoration, and confession as a return to true self 67:18 - Back to 3D faith and closing thoughts As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

This episode starts with a celebration of Dolly Parton’s extraordinary generosity and cultural impact, then moves into a serious theological conversation about hypocrisy, leadership, and what makes a church spiritually healthy or toxic. Mike, Suzie, and Tim connect Jesus’ warnings in Matthew 23 and Luke 12 to modern church culture, power, and the temptation to perform righteousness rather than live it. Why was Dolly Parton so universally loved, from the left to the right? Should Churches have a tax exempt status or does that malform the Church, structuring it like a business? How are we, today, to relate to the Pharisees and Jesus's warnings about their posture? Timestamps00:00 - Dolly Parton as a cultural and moral icon 01:00 - Surprising examples of Dolly’s generosity 03:00 - Why Dolly is beloved across ideological lines 05:25 - The question of doctrinal purity and salvation 06:53 - Rob Bell versus Mark Driscoll and the “greater heresy” debate 08:08 - Measuring a life by fruit, dignity, and consistency 12:05 - Benny Johnson, Rome, and the irony of Christian empire language 15:07 - Listener question: can 501(c)(3) status shape toxic church culture? 16:40 - Suzie on tax status versus church culture 18:28 - When tax structure becomes an opportunity for corruption 21:37 - Tim on systemic abuse and why the model feels broken 24:41 - Why leadership still matters in the New Testament 26:08 - Ephesians 4 and leadership for church flourishing 27:33 - Hebrews 13, submission, and the danger of abusive authority 31:48 - Spiritual leadership modeled by Jesus, not American hierarchy 34:29 - Paul’s refusal to build status around himself 35:51 - Teaching through the first woe in Matthew 23 39:40 - Hypocrisy as “judging under” and split identity 41:30 - The yeast of the Pharisees as corrupting influence 43:49 - Fear, sparrows, and what Jesus says to disciples under pressure 47:38 - Three ways truth gets exposed: life, persecution, and final judgment 51:23 - Gehenna as a kingdom image, not a simplistic hell map 54:17 - The God who judges also knows and loves you 55:23 - Public confession, denial, and persecution 56:17 - Tim on work, power, and the American dream as a church model 58:38 - Why the point is not only identifying Pharisees, but avoiding becoming them 61:06 - Suzie on famous failures, confession, and being found out in mercy 63:35 - How secrecy and lack of truth-telling deepen corruption As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Today, Mike Erre, Tim Stafford, and super special guest host Suzie P. Lind open a serious conversation about spiritual abuse by reading Matthew 23 alongside current headlines of pastor misconduct and church corruption. The episode asks why Jesus’ harshest words land on religious leaders, and what that reveals about abusive systems, hypocrisy, and the responsibility of shepherds. Suzie brings a crucial perspective as a pastor, elder, and woman in church leadership, helping widen the conversation beyond the usual assumptions. The discussion moves between biblical context, present-day church culture, and the personal work of examining how easily leaders can become what they condemn. The group walks through Matthew 23 and focuses on Jesus’ repeated rebukes: hypocrisyburdening people without helpingstatus-seekingspiritual blindnessneglect of justice, mercy, and faithfulness Chapters: 00:00 - Welcome back and introduction of Suzie P. Lind 02:34 - Coaching update, Patreon thanks, and book club announcement 04:00 - Trigger Warning: The reality of abuse headlines 07:24 - Why this feels like a culture problem, not just bad individuals 1 3:33 - Jesus’ woe over Jerusalem and why the tone matters 1 5:15 - Reading Matthew 23 in full context 17:07 - Hypocrisy, burden-bearing, and shutting the kingdom’s door 18:58 - Justice, mercy, faithfulness, and the “gnat and camel” warning 19:25 - Whitewashed tombs and outward righteousness 20:49 - Jerusalem weeps: judgment and grief together 22:09 - Why Suzie agrees with Jesus, but still feels the weight of it 23:12 - Why readers identify with Jesus instead of the Pharisees 27:03 - Jesus as prophet, not just teacher 29:44 - Holding religious leaders accountable for the people’s condition 32:01 - Reading the passage personally, not just externally 35:27 - Prophets as formed people, not instant caricatures 36:32 - Ancient Israel’s built-in self-critique 37:09 - Suzie on fear, responsibility, and benefiting from systems 38:35 - Oppressed people can become oppressors too 41:07 - Malala, forgiveness, and breaking cycles of violence 44:11 - Why the inside/outside distinction matters so much 45:01 - Ezekiel 34 and shepherds who feed on the flock 48:38 - Modernizing the woes into a diagnosis of abusive churches 49:27 - Heavy loads, guilt, and abusive marriage counseling 52:38 - Suzie’s painful example of being told abuse was “her cross to bear” 53:55 - “I will rescue my flock from their mouths” 56:04 - Status, titles, and performative leadership 57:00 - Majoring on minor issues while neglecting what matters most 58:08 - How churches decide what to emphasize and what to ignore 61:24 - First-importance issues, disputable matters, and biblical priorities 63:41 - Wrap-up, gratitude, and what comes next As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Esty Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Spiritual abuse doesn’t begin with one bad person. It grows through a culture of approval, secrecy, fear, and loyalty that slowly teaches people to stay quiet, play along, and mistake control for faithfulness. Mike Erre and Tim Stafford break down the eight phases of a power-through-fear church and contrast them with the kind of community Jesus actually builds - a pocket of tov, where goodness, wholeness, and courage can exist without hype or performance. If you'd like to support the work at VOXOLOGY, and join us next month for the book club, you can join here: https://www.patreon.com/c/voxology/posts If you're interested in Spiritual Coaching, you can email [email protected] Timestamps00:00 - Opening banter, kids back in school, and community updates 02:01 - Spiritual coaching and the Patreon book club announcement 03:49 - Frustration with corruption, outrage fatigue, and local engagement 09:31 - Refugees in Tennessee and creating pockets of hope 12:08 - A listener asks if introversion is sinful 14:54 - Quiet time as formation for community, not a spiritual end point 17:24 - Why introverts can still be harmed by solitude without structure 18:38 - Why spiritual disciplines need purpose, framework, and discernment 21:50 - Spiritual abuse is a culture, not just a bad person 24:48 - Step one: power concentrated in one person 26:14 - Insider approval, status enhancement, and filtered influence 28:09 - Outsiders, status degradation, and fear of disapproval 30:04 - Secrecy, image management, and what happens behind the wall 32:59 - Banishment, loyalty tests, and being expelled from the circle 34:29 - How church culture also shapes who gets seen as a leader 36:34 - Compassion and empathy as the first marks of a healthy culture 38:30 - Grace, failure tolerance, and hierarchy as responsibility 41:25 - A bottom-shaped triangle: leadership exists for the community 45:17 - Putting people ahead of the institution 47:39 - Truth telling, confession, and why churches avoid self-exposure 50:25 - Justice over loyalty culture and the misuse of Matthew 18 52:26 - Power dispersed, not accumulated 54:25 - Service over celebrity and power-under leadership 56:18 - Overperforming, underperforming, and leaders inserting themselves between God and people 58:08 - What heroes a culture celebrates and why ordinary faithfulness matters 61:27 - How do you build a healthy church in a hype-driven world? 62:55 - Practices of resistance: no hype language, no sermon-series hype machine 65:42 - The woman caught in adultery as a model of calm, teaching, and restoration 69:03 - Christ-likeness over leadership culture and the CEO model of church 72:12 - Richard Foster’s marks of spiritual power: love, humility, self-limitation, joy, vulnerability, submission, freedom 73:11 - Mike’s daughter testifies in a stalking case and the cost of being believed 77:31 - Why he stays in an organized church and what a healthy community can look like 80:33 - Why people won’t stay just for hype, and the need for pockets of tove 81:53 - Building boring, sustainable, life-giving community As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Today, Mike and Tim talk with Alex Wolf, director and content developer at Hope Heals, about her journey from pastor’s kid and missionary to one of the key theological voices shaping Hope Heals’ work. The conversation centers on how proximity to disability reorients faith, why disability is not a niche category but a universal human story, and what the church misses when it treats accessibility as a program instead of a posture. How does something like Hope Heals embody a kind of disruption to normal church life? How does belonging differ from hospitality, and how does co-creation matter more than merely making room for people? Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 07:30 - Introducing Alex Wolf and her connection to Hope Heals 12:00 - Growing up in a pastor’s home and early faith formation 13:00 - Missionary work overseas and the questions that started to surface 14:00 - Family, trusted guides, and the freedom to question 15:35 - Intellectual and existential wrestling in her 20s 17:33 - How Alex first said yes to Hope Heals 20:46 - Space to doubt inside a faith-centered parachurch organization 20:46 - Space to doubt inside a faith-centered parachurch organization 23:00 - Proximity to disability and a new understanding of the Beatitudes 25:00 - Why Alex began writing theology of disability 31:36 - Invisible wheelchairs and the many forms of hidden limitation 39:00 - Why disability should not be treated as a program 49:35 - Alex names the lack of ego as the secret ingredient at Hope Heals 54:00 - Closing gratitude and final remarks Praxis Thesis: Valuing People With Disabilities as a Gift to Society Hope Heals Website Hope Heals on Instagram: @hopeheals Hope Heals Camp Website The GoodHard Story Podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify Treasures in the Dark: 90 Reflections for Finding Bright Hope Hidden in the Hurting by Katherine Wolf and Alex Wolf As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Imagine a church where spiritual abuse is not just an exception but a pattern rooted deep in its culture... It’s a heartbreaking reality revealed when both pastors and congregation members unconsciously enable destructive behaviors. In this eye-opening episode, Mike Erre and Tim Stafford dive into how systemic cultures within churches can foster coercion, manipulation, and spiritual trauma—even when no one intends harm. How does spiritual abuse differ from healthy conflict, and what are the subtle ways it manifests through control, secrecy, and elitism? The role of church culture in either enabling or resisting abuse—plus practical elements that cultivate a healthier, “Tov” (good) environment Why trusting cultures matter more than trusting individual leaders, and how to discern whether a church’s environment fosters righteousness or ripples with bad fruit The importance of humility, repentance, and transparency in confronting and preventing systemic failures - Real-world examples of how power, wealth, and even well-meaning teachings become tools for harm when unchecked CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Welcome and introduction: Navigating summer, beards, and the heat 02:00 - Vacation reflections: Gulf of America and political symbolism 03:40 - The contrast between dry and humid heat; Florida’s atmosphere 05:00 - Cultural perceptions of patriotism and national identity 06:00 - Current polls: Millennials, Gen Z, and the influence of political support on church attendance 07:57 - The surprising data: Atheists and agnostics rejecting support for Trump and church 09:20 - The decline and revival of religious interest among young adults 11:00 - Worship, justice, and genuine spiritual longing amidst cultural confusion 13:00 - The influence of church history, state power, and religious movements 15:00 - The importance of uncharged (free) prophetic ministry and systemic patterns of abuse 17:00 - Recognizing authentic love and discipline versus toxic authority 19:00 - The nature of spiritual abuse: coercion, manipulation, secrecy, and power distortion 22:00 - Differentiating dispute and conflict from abusive patterns 25:30 - The importance of culture, habits, language, and collective identity 27:00 - Routine issues: church discipline, transparency, accountability, and systemic healing 30:00 - Recognizing and addressing spiritual trauma and systemic failure 33:00 - How unintentional actions contribute to harm; the need for awareness 36:00 - The role of leaders, nepotism, wealth, and power in perpetuating abuse 38:00 - What authentic love and humility look like in church leadership 41:00 - The importance of healthy cultures and the influence of external societal pressures 43:30 - Practical discernment: when disagreement becomes spiritual abuse 47:00 - The challenge of repentance, truth-telling, and confronting church complicity 50:00 - The importance of humility in leadership, ongoing learning, and personal growth 53:00 - The influence of church culture on shaping trust and accountability 55:30 - Defining "Tov" and how cultivating goodness counters bad fruit 58:00 - Recognizing and nurturing good fruit in church and community life 60:00 - The metaphor of the church as the bride of Christ: fighting for health and justice 62:00 - Practical final thoughts: loving well, confessing honestly, and cultivating healthy culture 63:00 - Wrap-up and closing blessings As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Spoiler: Stick around to the end to hear Seth do a Justin Bieber/Shema mashup... What if salvation isn't about escaping our humanity but restoring it? This episode unpacks a revolutionary view: human beings are inherently divine images—nouns and verbs—created to reflect God's character and creativity into the world. But somewhere along the way, that sacred image is fractured, leading to spiritual abuse, dehumanization, and disconnection from ourselves and others. In this episode, we explore the biblical concept of being fully human as God originally intended—images and likenesses of God, called to image and "verb" humanity into the world. We discuss how understanding our created purpose impacts our view of spirituality, identity, and the fight against spiritual abuse. The biblical foundation of human dignity: imagery and likeness in GenesisThe significance of image-bearing as verb and noun: (re)imagining God into the worldHumanity's role in creation: exercise of sovereignty, rule, and subduing with purposeThe concept of glory and honor: humans crowned when acting as God's imageThe impact of idolatry: exchanging God's glory for created things, resulting in dehumanizationThe recovery of humanity through Christ: becoming conformed to Jesus' image in ongoing transformation Timestamps: 00:00 - Welcome and episode overview: rediscovering what it means to be fully human 02:08 - Parental stories and everyday life as reflections of human image-bearers 03:19 - Introducing the series: spiritual abuse and the importance of being fully human 06:06 - How bad religion binds us and takes us away from our true humanity 06:54 - Humanity's broad scope: body, spirit, and all aspects of life as God's image 07:25 - Genesis 1: Making humans in our image and likeness—temple language 08:47 - Image as physical representation of divine power: statues of gods and kings 09:47 - Humanity as living idols: embodying God's character and purposes 10:45 - Humanity’s role to rule, subdue, and create potential in creation 1 2:10 - Purposeful rule: exercising sovereignty and cultivating the world 14:37 - The divine breath and humanity: dirt plus divine spirit 15:32 - Material and immaterial unity: embodying God's spirit and image 16:14 - Humanity’s role in worship through work and loving care of creation 17:10 - Names and authority: humans mirroring God's naming as image bearers 19:07 - The human's shared authority with God: law, naming, and rule 20:18 - Doing what God does: image as noun and verb—reflecting and enacting God's character 21:55 - The importance of language: naming and imitating God's creative acts 22:56 - The impact of the fall: losing the image and glory, and the rupture in relationships 24:34 - The shift from image as noun to image as verb: imaging the serpent’s wisdom 27:17 - Psalm 8: Humanity crowned with glory when fulfilling divine purposes 29:49 - Romans 1 and 3: Exchanging God's glory for images of creation, resulting in dehumanization and corruption 32:34 - The fall and the wave of idolatry: suffering in bodies and communities 35:09 - Jesus as the perfect human: revealing the true image of God 37:42 - Christ's image as the ultimate image bearer: revealing God's character fully 40:50 - The power of the Gospel: recovering the image and glorifying God in our restored humanity 44:13 - Salvation as the recovery of true humanity, not escape from bodies 45:39 - Practical implications: recovering sexuality, emotion, and purpose in God's image 47:37 - Jesus' ministry as the full embodiment of human image-verbing 50:11 - Community and shame: reclaiming sacredness and dignity 52:30 - The challenges of shame and the path towards wholeness in Christ 55:26 - The importance of seeing ourselves as image bearers: our identity and calling 56:33 - Systems of dehumanization and the collapsing of societal structures 58:29 - Celebrating community and the gift of joyful service in God's image

Rethinking Communion: Social Dynamics and Inclusive PracticeIn this episode, we explore the social and communal dimensions of communion, examining how historical practices, theological interpretations, and contemporary church culture influence our understanding and celebration of this sacred act. Join us for a biblically grounded, socially aware perspective that challenges traditional boundaries and invites an inclusive approach to the Lord's Supper. Key TopicsThe original context of early Christian meals and their social significanceHow Roman social hierarchy influenced the Corinthian church's practice of communionThe distinction between private morality and social morality in communionThe metaphor of the body of Christ as a symbol of unity and equalityThe importance of discerning the body, both Christ in the elements and the church communityCritique of common practices that divide or shame participantsThe cultural transformation of communion from a shared meal to a ritualistic, individual-focused eventPractical ideas for more inclusive and community-focused communion celebrations CHAPTERS:00:00 - Introduction and the significance of social dynamics in communion 02:10 - The context of early Christian meals and Roman influence 05:55 - The division of social status and its impact on the Lord's Supper 09:45 - Interpreting 1 Corinthians 11: the meaning of unworthy manner 14:50 - Community examination and practicing worthy participation 20:06 - The biblical symbolism of the body of Christ and social equality 26:40 - How divisions undermine the purpose of communion 32:43 - Practical implications for church practice and inclusive communion 36:36 - The role of non-believers and open invitation 45:12 - The church as a gathering place that reflects social hierarchies 47:33 - The importance of authentic community and simplification of practices 51:50 - Closing thoughts and encouragement for a more inclusive approach As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Today, Mike and Tim unpack the transformative experience the Erre's had at Hope Heals Camp, where faith, community, and a commitment to dignity intersect to create a sanctuary for families and individuals experiencing disabilities. Join us as we unpack the theology behind embodied hope, mutuality, and the sacredness of every person. The origin and purpose of Hope Heals Camp, inspired by Katherine and Jay Wolf's storyThe camp’s four postures: incarnation, mutuality, disability, and image bearersHow Jesus’ incarnation exemplifies dignity in limitationsThe social model of disability and creating welcoming environmentsThe significance of sacred spaces of belonging and hopeThe theological reasoning behind disability as a reflection of the divine imageThe importance of community, proximity, and shared limitations as spiritual practicesThe challenge to societal structures that dehumanize or excludeThe impact of this model on church and culture, emphasizing inclusivity over exclusivity CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Welcome and introduction to Seth and Mike’s camp experiences 01:25 - Reflections on camp activities and community spirit 03:36 - The profound personal impact of Hope Heals 05:39 - Framework of the camp’s origins and purpose 09:02 - Volunteer roles and the structure of camp days 11:45 - The parade and joyful welcomes for families 13:11 - The emotional power of the entrance moment 15:38 - Programming for campers and families, including special events 20:25 - The significance of the talent show and stories of remarkable individuals 22:15 - Poetry readings capturing the hope and embodied life 24:33 - Celebrating Christmas in July and the Luke 14 banquet 27:40 - The symbolism of the meal and oil blessing 31:22 - The theological postures: Jesus’ embodiment and dignity 36:32 - The theological foundations: from incarnation to imagery of God 41:53 - Disabout mutuality, respect, and person-first language in community 44:16 - The divine worth of every person as image bearers 48:09 - The societal realities of disability and exclusion 50:22 - Reflection on hope, culture, and the kingdom of God 54:19 - The contrast between exclusive and inclusive communities 57:17 - The concept of thin places and sacred spaces of proximity 60:34 - Worship and community as embodied, participatory acts 61:10 - Final reflections: embodying God's love through dignity and kinship Hope Heals Website Grace's Poetry As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

In this episode, Mike and Tim explore the nuanced landscape of salvation, church community, and spiritual growth through a centered set approach. They challenge traditional boundaries, emphasizing that salvation is a journey rather than a destination, and highlight the importance of allowing people space to grow in their relationship with Jesus. Mike and Tim continue their conversation about center-set thinking and what it looks like to follow Jesus in a way that emphasizes relationship, growth, and grace rather than rigid boundaries. They begin with some lighthearted banter about endurance races, introversion, rest, and pop culture before moving into a deeper theological conversation about salvation, repentance, discipleship, and the differences between bounded-set and center-set approaches to church life. -The meaning of center-set language in Christian community -Why Jesus often seems to welcome people from many different directions -The tension between in-or-out thinking and process-oriented discipleship -Why salvation in the New Testament is described in multiple ways -How church culture can create pressure to “pretend” instead of grow -The difference between judgment and discernment -How church leadership can clarify the center without creating unnecessary barriers -Why invitation works better than coercion, shame, or fear -The danger of double standards in churches -How truth can be pursued rather than merely possessed -Why systems built on power often become more about control than transformation The big idea of the episode is that following Jesus is a journey of becoming, not a checkpoint to pass. Mike argues that people should be allowed to grow into their identity in Christ over time, with the church serving more like a welcoming center than a gatekeeping wall. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to the episode: Embracing the journey of salvation 01:00 - How many paths lead to Jesus? Multiple ways into the kingdom 02:30 - The concept of salvation as a journey, not a static point 03:15 - Jesus’ invitational approach: Touching lives through relationship 04:50 - The significance of allowing people space to be in process 05:30 - Examining the "decision moment" and its limitations 08:00 - The role of community discernment over uniform rules 09:00 - Clarifying the center: Jesus and authentic following 10:40 - The difference between truth possessed and truth pursued 13:00 - The danger of legalism and exclusivity in faith communities 16:00 - Allowing people to stumble through the process—examples from Scripture 17:00 - How salvation is like a marriage: a relational journey 22:00 - The danger of legalistic boundaries and exclusive doctrines 28:00 - Strategies for cultivating a centered set community 35:00 - How sin dehumanizes, and salvation restores full humanity 41:00 - Moving beyond polarity: holistic, relational, process-oriented faith 46:00 - Making space for everyone's growth, imperfections, and ongoing process 48:00 - Final encouragement: live into the fullness of grace, not the boundaries of fear As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy