Advertise on podcast: #AmWriting

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit amwriting.substack.com Jess Lahey is the OG host of the #amwriting podcast and the author of The Gift of Failure and The Addiction Inoculation. She’s a teacher, a speaker, and a very accomplished journalist who writes for The Atlantic, The Washington Post and other media outlets. Now she’s writing a novel. Jess has been working on this novel, on and off, for fifteen years, and recently put it through my Blueprint for a Book process — a method of inquiry for getting your book out of your head and onto the page. When I read her Blueprint, I had one overwhelming reaction: she was holding back. The story she wants to tell is about memory and identity and family and the enormous weight of other people’s expectations. But on the page, it felt careful, contained, and buttoned up. When I said this to Jess, she immediately knew what I was seeing. She had written the Blueprint the way she writes nonfiction: carefully. She is used to getting things right, backing things up, not overstating the case. And whenever she had written something that felt too emotional or too big, she’d cut it. What was fascinating was that when we stopped talking about the Blueprint and Jess started talking about the actual kids she has taught over the years, all that carefulness disappeared. She was passionate and emotional and absolutely certain about what mattered to her. I thought: There it is. That’s what’s missing from the page. This is one of the strange things about becoming good at something. The skills that have served you well can become the skills you hide behind. Jess knows how to be careful. That’s part of what makes her such a good nonfiction writer. But this book is asking something different of her. At one point, she told me she was afraid that if she really let herself go, she might go over the edge and write something overblown or overwrought. I told her I didn’t think she could go over the edge if I paid her a million dollars! Where have you decided something is too emotional, too strange, too ambitious, too earnest, too much—and pulled back? Maybe it is too much. But you don’t actually know that yet. You can always pull back in revision. First, you have to let yourself go far enough to find out where the edge really is. Want to try the Blueprint on your own book? You can buy Blueprint for a Book here, or take my $19 Blueprint for a Book video course, which includes the full text of the book plus 14 video lessons that walk you through the process. Want to check out the full Hot Seat Coaching session and get access to Jess Lahey’s blueprint and Jennie’s editorial notes? Become a paid subscriber below. #amwriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

I want to take you inside my favorite yoga studio in Santa Barbara. It’s called Yoga Soup, and it’s a giant, grounding mix of movement, actual nutrient-dense soup in a crockpot, fresh fruit from local trees, and community. My husband Rob and I practice there a few times a week, and one of our favorite instructors—who is also a middle school English teacher—starts every class by reading a poem. She weaves its themes throughout our practice and reads it again at the end. Now, I’ll be honest with you: these classes are often equal parts healing and deeply unsettling for me. Why? Because I’m in there without a notebook or phone, frantically trying to memorize brilliant lines so I don’t lose them! A few weeks ago, she read a poem by Mary Oliver called “Today” from her 2012 collection A Thousand Mornings. One line hit me like a bolt of lightning: “Today I’m flying low, and I’m not saying a word. / I’m letting all the voodoos of ambition sleep.” I spent the rest of the class scrambling to hold onto that concept because the “voodoos of ambition” are my constant companions. They’re the noisy, bossy, pushy engine behind everything I make, write, and build. They drive the desire to “play big.” And if you’re listening to this podcast, I bet your voodoos are pretty loud, too. But as I wrestled with Mary Oliver’s words, a new thought took root: What would happen if we actually let those voodoos take a day off? In this Write Big session, I’m reflecting on: * The double-edged sword of high ambition and why we need energy to drive big work. * Why scrambling to capture every thought is just another “voodoo” in disguise. * How giving your ambition a rest—letting it sink into child’s pose—is actually what allows it to wake up re-energized and full of life. Writing big requires big energy, but it also requires rest. This week, I’m offering you a permission slip to fly low, be quiet as a feather, and let your ambition sleep for a little while. Until next time, stop playing small and write like it matters! #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Books Mentioned * A Thousand Mornings by Mary Oliver Transcript Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. This is a Write Big session, where I’m bringing you short episodes about the mindset shifts that help you stop playing small and write like it matters. Today, I’m talking about ambition, and specifically I’m talking about some thoughts on the poet Mary Oliver and desire And I want to tell you a story about my yoga studio and a particular yoga teacher that I adore. So my yoga studio in Santa Barbara, California, is called Yoga Soup, and what its name implies is that there’s all different kinds of things that happen in this space. There’s all different kinds of yoga and all different kinds of teachers. It’s a giant mix of different kinds of ways of doing yoga, and [00:01:00] there’s also actual soup. In the front room of the studio, there are couches and a coffee table and benches, and there’s a Crockpot of soup. It’s made by a local soup kitchen that makes just killer local nutrient-dense soup. And oftentimes there’s bread from the local bakery, and you can put $5 or $10 in the tip jar and sit down and have a bowl of warm soup, even on a warm day, which we often have here in Santa Barbara. There also tends to be bowls of things from the farmers market or from people’s trees. So there might be oranges or carrots or strawberries or something there that you can have. And one of my practices is I love to come out of yoga class and sit down and have a carrot. It always makes me feel rooted in a very specific and physical way and grounded. So that’s the vibe of my yoga studio. And I practice yoga with my husband. It’s a thing that we do together, that we love to do together, and we try to do two or [00:02:00] three times a week. Rob actually goes to yoga more than I do, and he is really good at it, and he’s really strong. And I know we’re not supposed to compare, but I do. But regardless, I love going with him and practicing alongside of him. And one of our favorite teachers is also a middle school English teacher. And at the start of every one of her yoga classes, she reads a poem, and then she weaves the lessons of that poem throughout the yoga practice. So while you’re doing a pose or transitioning from one pose to another, or in your resting pose, she’ll talk about words or phrases or ideas from the poem, and then she usually reads it again at the end. And I, of course, love this so much because words and poems and weaving them all into movement, it just feels so healing and powerful, and I just adore it. And I’m not alone. Her classes are always packed with all different kinds of people, and you have to get there early, and you have to bring your patience [00:03:00] because there’s so many people clamoring for this specific kind of experience. But oftentimes this class is also really hard for me because the teacher will say something in the middle that I wanna remember, and I’m in there without paper and I’m without my phone, and I feel sort of quite naked ‘cause I’m like, “I gotta write this down. I gotta remember what she said,” because I’m not trusting that she’ll remember what she said if I went up to her after class and said, “What was it that you said about that thing?” And I’m not sure that I will remember correctly. And so I kind of spend the whole class in this panic about remembering whatever it was that she said. I certainly am not gonna not try to remember. That’s just not in my DNA. So I often have somewhat unsettling experiences in this class as well. And a few weeks ago, the instructor shared a Mary Oliver poem, and I happen to know that Mary Oliver is one of her favorite poets. She often [00:04:00] reads things from her. And I’ve read a lot of Mary Oliver, and I recognize a lot of the poems. But on this one day, this poem that she read, I had never heard of, and I couldn’t believe I’d never heard of it because it just blew my mind. I found out after class, my Googling told me that this poem is from the book A Thousand Mornings, which was published in 2012, and the poem is called Today Today I’m flying low, and I’m not saying a word. I’m letting all the voodoos of ambition sleep. The world goes on as it must, the bees in the garden rumbling a little, the fish leaping, the gnats getting eaten, and so forth. But I’m taking the day off, quiet as a feather. I hardly move, though really I’m traveling a terrific distance. Stillness, one of the doors into the temple. So there I am in yoga, scrambling to remember the line, letting all the voodoos of ambition sleep. Because that [00:05:00] line, that concept, I was just like, “What? The voodoos?” I mean, trying to remember the line of a poem while doing yoga is one of those voodoos. The voodoos of ambition are all up in my brain, and they’re all over my body and my gut. They just are my constant companion. And the second I heard that line, I was like, “Ugh, yes, I love the voodoos of ambition.” They’re what drive me and propel me and keep me coming up with ideas and things I wanna write and make and do. They are what is the engine of writing big and playing big. And there’s so much that I wanna make and write and do in the world. And I feel like the voodoos of ambition get it. They’re dancing, and they’re cheering and propelling me on. But of course, I also find them hard to deal with because you know, the voodoos are so noisy. They’re so bossy. They’re so pushy and voodooy. And as soon as I heard that [00:06:00] poem, and as soon as I got home and studied it and looked at it again, I thought, “Gosh, what would it be like to not say a word and let the voodoos of ambition sleep?” I don’t know, and I don’t know if I want to know. Flying low is not my natural way of being in the world. And when I thought about it, though, I thought, “You know, I bet those voodoos get tired.” And I imagine that they would love some time off, and that that would be for them like time to do yoga and lay down in child’s pose and just feel the support of the earth. And when I imagined that, I imagined that that sleep would make those voodoos feel full of energy and alive when they got up to do their work again. And so I thought, “Okay, I’m gonna practice this, that tomorrow maybe I’ll just take a day off and try to be quiet as a feather.” And my reflection for you this week is to remember that writing [00:07:00] big, playing big, trying to do big things in the world absolutely requires some big energy and some up energy, and it requires some voodoos of ambition for sure. But there’s also a place in this work of letting those voodoos have a little rest and letting them re-energize and letting them come back to life when they’re ready. I thought it was a good thing for us all just to remember. Until next time, stop playing small and write like it matters. The hashtag amwriting podcast is produced by Andrew Perilla. Our intro music, aptly titled Unemployed Monday, was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output because everyone deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

You’ll get a regular Write Big episode tomorrow! Hi! As you may know, after ten years of #amwriting, KJ, Jess and Sarina are moving on to other endeavors and have handed the reins of the podcast to me. I’m honored—and very excited—to carry it forward. For the past nine months, I’ve been trying things, listening to what resonates with you, and weighing my own energy and my options for what #amwriting could become. And I’ve landed on a new plan. The goal is to keep the spirit of what #amwriting has always done—help writers get their best work done—and to offer more ways to see your own work more clearly. This is one of the hardest things about being a writer. Is this working? What’s not working? Is the problem on the page—or in the way I’m thinking about the book? Am I solving the right problem? What should I do next? There is endless writing advice out there. What I want #amwriting to give you is something different: the chance to listen to writers work through real problems, hear the thinking behind the solutions, and get better at seeing and solving problems in your own work. And this is work I know how to do. I’ve trained more than 400 book coaches and spent years developing frameworks for coaching writers through the decisions, problems, and stuck places that come up as they make books. That means I also have a deep bench of skilled Author Accelerator certified book coaches I can bring into #amwriting. I think that puts me in a unique position to make a different kind of writing podcast—one built around showing you what good coaching looks like in action and helping you become better at thinking through your own work. You’ll continue to get free #amwriting episodes every week, including Write Big, my episodes about what it takes to do your best work and keep doing it; and Margin Notes, short episodes that take a close look at a particular question, problem, or moment in the writing life. That is where I will often have guests join me. And, I’ve started writing the Substack posts each week as mini lessons for those who want to read rather than listen. Before, they were generic summaries and no one wants to read that. But a big part of this new #amwriting is now going to happen for paid subscribers. Why I’m asking you to pay $8/month BookLab and Hot Seat Coaching take real time, effort, and energy to produce. They involve reviewing work, preparing for coaching conversations, bringing in the right coaches and guests, recording, editing, and producing the episodes. I love doing this work. I want to do more of it. And I need the support of paid subscribers to make it sustainable. So I’m making BookLab and Hot Seat Coaching part of the paid #amwriting membership. If you want to get better at seeing your own work clearly, making stronger writing decisions, and knowing what to do when you get stuck, I’m asking you to support this work by becoming a paid subscriber. It’s $8/month. For $8/month, here’s what you get * All the regular weekly #amwriting episodes, including Write Big and Margin Notes. * BookLAB — We take apart real submissions—first pages, book jackets, query letters, and more—to see what’s working, what’s not, and why. The more you learn to see in someone else’s work, the more you can see in your own. I plan to share a BookLAB episode each month. * Hot Seat Coaching — Listen as real writers work through real writing challenges with me and Author Accelerator certified book coaches. You’ll hear not just what they decide to do, but the thinking that gets them there—so you can get better at working through your own challenges. * The complete #amwriting archive — Ten years of conversations about virtually every stage of the writing life, organized by topic so when you hit a problem, you can find the conversations that can help. (This will take us a little while to organize but we’re already working on it!) If you want to do more than listen, you can come further into the work. Annual — $80/year Annual subscribers get everything in the $8/month membership for a more affordable price, plus: * Attend our monthly BookLABs live on Zoom. Join us each month as we work on writing in real time. Raise your hand to share your first pages, book jackets, query letters, and other work for possible coaching and feedback * BookLABs will happen on zoom. We’ll email links out before each episode. Times of these sessions will vary but the next three will be: * Thursday, Oct. 15 at 9 am PT * Thursday, Nov. 19 at 9 am PT * Thursday, Dec. 17 at 9 am PT * Get private recordings as I do a last-pass read-through of my forthcoming book, Write Big: 7 Questions That Will Change Your Writing Forever. I’ll read the book and decide what to change or tweak as I go, sharing the process with annual subscribers. For writers who want even more access and coaching: The #amwriting Writers’ Room — $180/year Get in the room where we do the work. Writers’ Room members get everything in Annual, plus invitations to join me and Author Accelerator certified book coaches for more intimate coaching experiences throughout the year, including Blueprint challenges for starting and revising a book. We’re kicking off the Writers’ Room with something I’m especially excited about: the very first Write Big Coaching Sessions. This will be a five-week experience where we’ll work through the seven questions at the heart of my forthcoming book, Write Big: 7 Questions That Will Change Your Writing Forever. * Before each call, you’ll receive a private audio episode of me reading a chapter. * The live calls (Pacific Time) are: * October 19 — 8:00 a.m. * October 21 — 4:30 p.m. * October 26 — 8:00 a.m. * October 28 — 4:30 p.m. * November 2 — 8:00 a.m. * November 4 — 4:30 p.m. * November 9 — 8:00 a.m. * November 11 — 4:30 p.m. * Then we’ll come together on Zoom to write, talk, and work with the questions. * We’ll have a private Slack channel throughout the five weeks for questions and conversation, and a community manager who will help direct the conversation and connections. We’ll also post recordings there, so it’s okay if you need to miss some of the live calls. You’ll be part of the very first cohort to experience the book this way. You’ll help me choose the book jacket, and I’ll include your name in the acknowledgments of the finished book. The idea is to use these seven questions to look closely at your own writing and writing life: what you want, what you know, what’s getting in your way, and what you want to do next. So you can decide how far you want to come into the new #amwriting: * Keep listening for free. * Get better at seeing and solving writing problems for $8/month. * Bring your own work into the conversation for $80/year. * Get in the room and get coached for $180/year. I’m really excited about what we’re building next—and I hope you’ll come with me. Thanks for your support! Jennie This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Have you ever looked at a project you’ve poured years of your life into and realized… it’s fine? Not catastrophic. Not terrible. Just fine. No one wants to read a book that’s fine — and I am certain you don’t want to write one. The first step in making sure you do better than fine is to catch yourself when you know you’ve hit a wall — which is way easier said than done. We get so used to plowing ahead, getting the words down, prioritizing FINISHING that we often forget to stop and make sure we are writing what we really want to be writing. Think of that pause like checking in with your gut or your heart: do you love this? Because if you don’t love it, your readers aren’t going to love it, either. In this Write Big episode, KJ and I sit down for an honest, behind-the-scenes look at what happens when you hit a wall—and decide to set off a stick of dynamite instead of trying to climb over it. Both of us recently threw out huge portions of our current projects (my Write Big book, and KJ’s novel) to start fresh from page zero. I share the story of my 12-hour wrestling match with ChatGPT over the books subtitle (yeah — 12 hours on the subtitle), the “tough love” reality check I got from #amwriting recurring guest therapist Dr. Diana Hill, and how answering one simple question—are you actually centering your reader?—changed everything about my book’s tone, structure, and voice. Meanwhile, KJ opens up about why she threw out her protagonist, embraced a dual-timeline structure, and ignored the well-meaning advice of friends who told her NOT to keep starting over. We talk about: * How to recognize when a book is polite or timid instead of alive. * The difference between an echo chamber (which AI can sometimes be) and a true truth-teller. * A method for salvaging the gold from an abandoned draft without getting bogged down by old words. * Why starting over isn’t “falling behind”—it’s standing up for your conviction. If you’re feeling stuck, lost, or secretely suspecting your current draft needs a radical pivot, we encourage you stop playing it safe and build something alive. Let’s get back to work and finish work we LOVE. #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Books Mentioned * Austin Kleon’s Steal Like an Artist * John Wooden’s books on coaching basketball * Serena Bowen’s novel: Big Stick Energy * Virginia A. Evans’s The Correspondent Transcript Jennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. This is a Write Big episode, where I bring you short conversations, this one might not be so short, about the mindset shifts that shape the work, and today I’m talking to KJ. Jennie: Hi, KJ. KJ: I’m so excited to be here. This is... Uh, you know. I’ll be here lots. This is great. Uh, the, the behind-the-scenes stuff- Is the behind the scenes stuff? KJ Jennie: often- KJ: And here we are just to like, you know, having a nice normal, um, a podcast, so Jennie: yeah. I know. I’m so excited to talk to you and to share this conversation with our listeners, and we’re talking about Jennie: So we’re talking about the mindset shifts that shape the work. That’s what Write Big is all about, and [00:01:00] oof, some big ones just happened for us both. Yep. Um, if you’ve been listening for a while, you know we’re both working on projects. They’re very different projects. Um, KJ’s is a novel, mine is a nonfiction book, and I just m- literally dropped a bomb on mine and totally blew it up and started in a new direction, and this is years into it, and you recently did that too, and you- I did KJ: something very similar Jennie: you were shy about sharing it with me, which I thought was funny. Um- Oh. ‘Cause you were like- Yeah ... “She’s not in the book anymore.” I was asking her about KJ: something. That’s right. You’re like, “Oh, and this could be s- “ I, I mentioned something, and I was like, “Oh, yeah.” Yeah, Jennie: I just mentioned changes. That was when we were in person. Jennie: We, KJ and I were in person, and you know what? We didn’t take a picture. KJ: Oh my God, we didn’t. You’re right. Oh, well. Jennie: We both tra- We have a KJ: lot of things. Travel It just means we have to do it again [00:02:00] soon. Jennie: We both traveled great distances in order to have lunch and go shopping and talk about books, and we were walking and chatting about KJ’s book, and, and that’s when I learned she had blown everything up. Jennie: So how are KJ: you- We both blew things up. So I got questions. I’m sure you have questions. I have. My first question- Yeah ... you just did this, so how did you know you had to do this? Jennie: Yeah, I did it yesterday. KJ: I think that’s ... I know. I think that’s the thing that people wanna know, like, “How did you, how did you know?” KJ: Okay. “Was it gradual? Was it sudden?” Just- Jennie: Yeah ... KJ: you know, j- tell, tell us how we should know if we should do the same thing, which I already did, and I have an answer to this too, so. Jennie: Yeah, yeah. KJ: How did Jennie: you know? So I was ... I had a finished manuscript, and I asked two people to read it for very particular reasons, these beta reas- readers, and they, neither of them were people that I would call Jennie: They’re not the kinda typical people that I would go to. [00:03:00] They were, they were more, um, regular readers, if that makes sense. They’re, they’re not insidery people like you. I mean, you and I- Me ... have a lot of insidery, inside the industry people. These were not those people. So I had a full manuscript. I took it out to both of them. Jennie: I got feedback from both of them, and the, the first, the first person’s feedback was- Fine? It was, it was fine. It was like, “This is fine. I want more of this or that.” And it was, it was kind of like, not- KJ: Fine, huh? Great ... Jennie: not what anybody wants. Fine. I either want my reader to be like, “Oh, hell yes,” or, “I co- totally don’t get it.” Jennie: Like, I want, I don’t want fine. So that was the first thing, and then the second reader [00:04:00] said, “I ha- I got some tough love for you.” And this was happened after I was really struggling. I was trying to rewrite while they were doing the beta read, and, you know, f- with my own critique and my own next steps and my own thing, and I found myself unable to go forward because of the title. Jennie: I kept changing my mind on the title. Like, what really is this? And what, it’s particularly the subtitle. What, what am I doing? Like, after all this time, after all this time, after a million blueprints, a million conversations, a whole manuscript, I’m still asking myself, “What is the point? Who is this for? Jennie: What am I doing?” And I, when I say that I was wrestling with that, I felt that I couldn’t revise until I got it right because I, the revision now is very [00:05:00] specific. It’s not let’s just get some words down. KJ: Mm-hmm. Jennie: And so I think I spent, I mean, I’m not even exaggerating- 12 hours? I’m not kidding. Playing- No, KJ: I, I believe- Jennie: Playing with my title. Jennie: And- KJ: And you kept sending me things, and I’d be like, “Eh.” Jennie: Yeah, you were like, “Meh.” I was playing in Chat GPT- I was super helpful ... and the reason that I spent so much time was it was really fun. It was, it was like, “Well, what about this? Well, what about the other? I don’t like that word.” Like I was fighting with the machine, which I sort of enjoyed, and, and it was, it was Jennie: It says, you know, it says ridiculous things all the time. “This is your most original idea.” I’m like, “Blah.” You know? Yeah. Just I was kind of wanting to- Yeah, you, KJ: you, you can’t listen to it. No. You can only listen to what it’s making you say. Jennie: I was wrestling with my own mind. Yeah. That’s what I was doing. Jennie: Mm-hmm. And, and I would land on something, and I would think this, and I would start [00:06:00] to revise, and I’d think, “Yeah,” and then I’d send it to you. And you’d be, yeah, you’d be like, “I don’t like it,” or, “I don’t get it,” or, “Meh,” or, “No,” or whatever. And I was getting mad, not at you, but at my own self. Like, what is the matter here? Jennie: And if you’ve listened to the podcast, you heard some big revelation episodes with Andrew Perella, who’s working on his novel, where you have to step back from the wrestling to say, “Why am I wrestling so much with this? There’s something else going on here,” right? Mm-hmm. So that was kind of what was happening, and then the second beta reader- Uh, who is, has been on the podcast several times as well and, and will be in the future. Jennie: It’s therapist Diana. So therapist Diana often comes on to help us with some psychological things around writing. And- And KJ: she has a book. Jennie: She does. She has actually three. So she was the one [00:07:00] who said, “I got some tough love for you.” And she said, “Why don’t you come over, and we’ll sit down, and I’ll, I’ll tell it to you.” Jennie: And so part of me was doing that thing that you do is, where it was like, “Oh, crap, I still have so much work to do, and, and I’m tired of this, and I don’t wanna.” And, you know, so I went into it with that sort of whiny, resistant attitude. And for, like, the first hour when she was talking to me, I had that really defensive thing of like, “You don’t get me. Jennie: You don’t get, you don’t get what I’m doing. You don’t, you’re not, you’re not in my world.” Like, I was really resi

Paid subscribers can join us in the chat to respond to this invitation! #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. If you haven’t caught episode 523 yet to hear me and Dr. Diana Hill talk about juggling all the things, you can catch up below. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

On the #amwriting podcast’s Margin Notes, host Jennie Nash talks with Dr. Diana Hill, author of Wise Effort, about how writers handle mishaps and self-talk when juggling book-related obligations. Hill describes accidentally booking two plane tickets to a Washington, DC conference, prompting a discussion about shifting the story from “I’m disorganized” to one of abundance and opportunity. Hill introduces Buddhism’s “wise speech” filters—helpful, kind, timely, and true—and distinguishes guilt (which motivates clean-up and repair) from shame (which labels the self as bad and can paralyze writers). They share examples of painful feedback and feelings of insignificance, discuss the “worldly winds” (fame/insignificance, pleasure/pain, blame/disrepute, gain/loss), and conclude that choosing to “pay the price” of a busy, opportunity-seizing life can be healthier than spiraling into blame or defensiveness. #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Read Wise Effort by Dr. Diana Hill Transcript Jennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. This is Margin Notes, the place in the podcast where we talk about the big decisions writers face in their work or creative lives. Jennie: And I’m here again with Dr. Diana Hill, author of Wise Effort, and we’re gonna talk about a really interesting reality that you and I have both noticed, Diana, which is that when you’re out there in the world with your book as a writer and you’re juggling all the things, you’re ... You have interviews, you’re putting, you know, inquiries out, you’re showing up for conferences or workshops or events or things, and sometimes things don’t always go the way that you planned. Jennie: So today you have a little experience [00:01:00] with that, which is why we’re even talking today. Diana: Well, it’s, it’s more like things don’t go the way that I plan. It’s more like I had no idea about my own plans because I’m juggling so much. Bec- I, I’m on my way to this pretty, uh, big conference in Washington, DC, and I’m going to present on a book that I wrote, uh, called I Know I Should Exercise, But: 44 Reasons Why We Don’t Move and How to Get Over Them. Diana: And I’m going to present to a bunch of researchers and therapists about this sort of model of what gets in the way of us exercising. And I open up my American Airlines app and realize I have booked myself a ticket today and a ticket tomorrow. I bought two plane tickets to this conference without any awareness that I had already bought one. Diana: And so I had to decide, am I gonna go tomorrow or gonna go today? And, uh, I canceled and said, “Hey, I’d rather...” And I called you, I texted you right away, “Hey, I have an open af- afternoon. Do you wanna meet up, Jennie?” But this is the case, right? [00:02:00] W- when you have so much on your plate because you’re, you are moving pieces around to make things happen, little bits of sand drop through the cracks. Diana: I think, yes, that’s, that is a problem. But what’s the bigger problem is how we treat ourselves after that or during that, or the stories we tell ourselves about who we are and our capabilities. I think I said, “I’m so disorganized,” and you said, “Oh, I’m so disorganized.” And then we said, “Wait a minute, maybe we need to change our script.” Diana: Right? Which is hilarious because that’s what your entire book is about, is telling yourself a different story, not believing the first story that y- comes into your head, which is, oh, well, what happened was you told me that you did this and I laughed and I said, “Oh, I, I do things like that all the time. I c- I think of myself as a terribly disorganized person.” Diana: And that’s when we both stopped and said, “Well, wait a minute. What would the other story here be?” So that’s what- Yeah ... we thought we would talk about. Yeah. I often [00:03:00] think of the Lucille Ball episode when the chocolates are coming down the conveyor belt, and they start speeding up, and she’s stuffing them in her bra, and she’s stuffing it in her face, and they’re, and they’re flying off. Diana: And then you realize, well, wait a minute here, there’s an abundance of chocolate coming your way. Like, this is, this may be a good thing, you know? Like, you have a conference that you’re going to, or you have all these different opportunities that you’re juggling. And we could start there with, uh, shifting to that type of a story, which is a story of there’s so much ‘cause it’s an experience of abundance. Diana: It’s an experience of opportunities, of possibilities, which already shifts our mind into a different place. And you could notice that even in your body when you shift from, “I’m a disorganized mess,” to, “Oh, I have so many opportunities and possibilities right now.” Well, and what’s interesting in your case is that you, it, it wasn’t like you didn’t have a plane ticket. Diana: You had two plane tickets. So in some ways there’s a story of [00:04:00] you’re quite organized. You were gonna get yourself to this conference no matter what. Or a story of I didn’t trust myself, that I bought the plane ticket. So I had, I had to do it twice. But yes, I mean, the, the nature of the human mind is that it’s a story-making machine, and actually everything that we experience comes through the, our, our mental filters, and we get to be the chooser of which stories are most helpful. Diana: In Buddhism, there’s something called wise speech, and wise speech has these four qualities to it. The first quality is, is it helpful? The next one is, is it kind? The next one, which I think is a very useful one, is, is it timely? Like, is it a good time for m- for me to tell myself this story? Sometimes you might wanna tell yourself the story that you’re disorganized and you need to go get organized. Diana: You need to, you know, clean stuff up, do a little , spring cleaning. But telling yourself that when you’re in the middle of a ton of other things and now you have to deal with your low mood and feeling bad about yourself isn’t helpful. And then the fourth [00:05:00] quality of wise speech is, is it true? Sometimes we do need to question, is it true? Diana: Is it not true? But most of the time, if we’re getting all wrapped up with the, is it true? Is it not true? Am I disorganized or not? We’re just doing black and white thinking, and it’s m- usually more a little bit of both. That type of questioning our thoughts or questioning our stories and asking ourselves what would be the most helpful, what would be the most kind, what would be the most timely, and maybe what would be the most true, is a better angle to take with it, I think. Diana: I love that. I love that so much. I know another thing that happens when writers are juggling all the things is sometimes we, we drop one of the balls and w- we disappoint someone. So let’s say in a different iteration of this that you actually were supposed to fly yesterday, and so you missed the conference. Diana: You know, that, that happens when you have a whole bunch of things going on, or you wrote the time wrong down for the podcast interview, or you missed [00:06:00] some critical deadline, and now you have on top of that like, “Oh, I, I let these people down. I said I was gonna show up, and I’m not.” Or, you know, what, what do we do when the disorganization leads to those kinds of thoughts? Diana: Mm-hmm. Well, if, if there is something you need to clean up, sometimes we do need to clean up. Yeah. I mean, that’s kind of getting radically honest with ourself, and there’s, there’s t- two layers to that. Guilt is a, actually an emotion that we evolved as humans for a good reason, to clean stuff up. I made a mistake, I feel a little guilty, I go apologize. Diana: Um, I’ve, I had a, I gave, I did a white lie about something, I got caught, so I admit it. You know, whatever it is. That happened this morning. My son took my AirPod and he, he wouldn’t fess up. And finally he fessed up. I’m like, “See, doesn’t it feel better just to be honest?” Like, it’s just be honest about it. Diana: But there’s a, there’s a distinction between guilt, [00:07:00] which motivates us to just, just to clean stuff up, and shame. Shame is I am bad. There’s something wrong with me. I’m a bad person because I scheduled two flights or because I, you know, had, said a white lie to my mom for taking her AirPod. Shame is pretty detrimental, and it’s the type of emotion that makes us climb back into a hole and not put ourselves out there. Diana: And as writers, we need to be putting ourselves out there a lot. We need to be making lots of mistakes. Maybe every once in a while feeling a little bit guilty for something that we need a course correction on, but we course correct and we move on, as opposed to shame of I am bad, and then we’re paralyzed, frozen, and we go nowhere. Diana: Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, you’re making me think of something that happened to me one time when I was out there promoting a book, and I had been invited to do the keynote speech at a big conference. And- There was a process in place where [00:08:00] my presentation was vetted. Like, I had to submit it and, um, and it was vetted and, and we were really clear on what I was talking about and what I was doing there vis-a-vis what some other of the speakers were doing. Diana: So there was this nice work on the whole presentation, and I felt really confident about what I was doing. And I, I did the, um, presentation and, and it was sort of s- short and, um, I thought

Paid subscribers can join us in the chat to respond to this invitation! #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. If you haven’t caught episode 522 yet to hear me and Stuart Wakefield talk about his marketing efforts for his latest book, you can catch up below. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

In this Margin Notes episode of the #amwriting podcast, host Jennie Nash talks with book coach and author Stuart Wakefield about approaching marketing as a creative project by making joyful “artifacts” that expand a story world rather than simply asking readers to buy a book. Wakefield shares his creative background, a past period when his creative practice stopped, and how he now immerses himself in projects tied to his latest novel, All Hands on Dick, set in 1956 aboard the cruise ship SS Celestial. Stuart describes the book’s comedic, queer, mid-century influences and its characters, explains creating items like a 3D-printed ocean liner and a hand-cut 10-inch vinyl record featuring AI-assisted big band songs, and discusses building an animated music video. Nash also previews upcoming episodes with Wakefield on using the Blueprint method to develop a series, as he launches his trilogy A Gay Odysea. #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Connect with Stuart * Visit his book coaching site * Read his books * Watch his music video Transcript Jennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. Hi, everyone. This is Margin Notes, the part of the podcast where we’re talking about the big decisions writers face in their work or creative lives. I’m here today to talk with Stuart Wakefield about making marketing a creative project. And you’ve heard from Stuart before. He has coached on the podcast, and we’ll link to that episode in the show notes. He also will be in episodes to come, which we’ll talk about in a moment, and Stuart is a fascinating individual who’s had a long career in all kinds of things, including TV writing, playwriting, a long stint in IT. What? [00:01:00] And, and now Stuart works with me at Author Accelerator, and he runs his own book coaching business at thebookcoach.co. Welcome, Stuart. Stuart: Thank you for having me, Jennie. I’m really excited to talk to you today. Jennie: I’m excited too. This is such a, such a interesting topic. So the reason this came up is that Stuart launched a new book, which he’ll tell you about in a moment, which is part of a series, which he’ll tell you about in a moment, and I started seeing out on social media just all this really fun content that he was producing. And obviously then I would get to talk to him at work, and I- he just would have so much joy, and then he would say, “Oh, let me show you this other thing.” And when I talk about fun content, I’m talking about, like, music videos, cartoons, animated [00:02:00] little shorts. He wrote a song. He, he’s writing a music video. He 3D printed a ship. He printed a vinyl record. I mean, it’s bonkers. And so I just wanted to dig into this about what are you doing, and why is it creating so much joy, and what can we learn from it? So that’s what we’re here to talk about. Stuart: Oh, oh, oh. Right. Okay. So, so in, in my creative practice, I have always enjoyed... You know, I started acting when I was five, um, so I’ve always been in kind of around the theater, even when my kind of IT career and project management career was all kind of going on. So I’ve always enjoyed that. I, um, started a, a- A degree in fashion design. Um, after a year at art college, I, you know, carried on acting and then had a break in 2003. Uh, if I’m really honest with you, I had a breakdown and- Yeah ... m- [00:03:00] my creative practice just stopped. And about six years later in 2009, I started writing. And you know, I’ve always been a creative person, and I’ve always been a storyteller, and I tend, but I tend to do it in a very short, concise way. So the shortest piece of fiction I’ve sold was 50 words. Jennie: That’s short. Stuart: Right. Okay. So I, um- Have had like a, a side art project. It’s called The Queer Historian of Emotional Truths. Um, and there is a website that sits with that, and the idea is that the queer historian has found artifacts, um, and he is curating those and sharing those on the website, and they might be voicemails, they might be found photos, found objects. And when I got my... So I really love that kind of very small to- storytelling, those, those really poignant moments, [00:04:00] as opposed to great big, long stories. Um, I recently s- sold a story to Divine Femins- Feminine Publishing as well, um, which is again, it’s cozy sci-fi, but it’s very much the small kind of human moments. Jennie: Right. Stuart: And I found that after writing this book, I became so invested in the world that I wanted to do small art projects that kind of lived within that world. So that’s where this has come from. I, I don’t see it as marketing. I see it as telling those smaller stories within that wider world that really convey the joy that not only have I got from writing that, that work, but I think lives on after the reader closes and reads that last, that last page and then closes the book. Jennie: Well, this is why it’s so exciting and inspiring to me, because so often when writers talk about marketing or think about marketing, they’re thinking [00:05:00] about, “Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book,” and that’s not at all where you’re coming from. I suspect... Well, with this current project, it’s, it’s brand new, but I suspect that that’s where it’s gonna go, right? That it’s impossible to imagine sh- that you’re gonna share all these creative acts and artifacts and not get people... I was gonna say on board, but that’s gonna be like- The, it’s a- It Stuart: is set follow... It’s set on board a, a ocean liner. Right. So on, on board is great. Jennie: Right? Like the, how could those two things not happen? That, I guess what I’m getting at is I, I often think that the results people want don’t usually come from the path that they think is gonna get them there. Right. The results come from doing the work you love, writing the story you want, and in your case, making this a creative project. Do you- Yes ... do you think that’s [00:06:00] true? Stuart: Yeah. You know, very much so, and I was discussing this with a marketing book coach, uh, Rebecca Grogan. Jennie: Mm-hmm. Stuart: Highly recommend her to any romance writer. So that’s beckythebookcoach.com, and, you know, we got talking about creative projects and how much I don’t really like marketing. I always thought it was a very British thing not to like marketing, but the more and more US writers I, I meet and fellow coaches, again, you know, marketing can feel like something unsavory. Jennie: Right Stuart: And what I really want to do is show people these cool things I’ve made and invite them very much into the world. Because what I do in any of my creative writing projects, I have objects that represent what I’m writing on my desk. So, um, I have a book that’s set in 1907, so I got [00:07:00] artifacts from, from that time. I have a book that’s set, well hopefully coming out in a few months, which is, uh, set in Madrid in 1958, and one of the characters works in a print shop. So I have wooden blocks, wooden printing blocks that spell out this character’s names. So- Jennie: Oh, Stuart: that’s Jennie: so cool. Stuart: So as I switch from project to project, I bring those things and put those onto my desk, and I just find it helps me get into that head space- Jennie: Yeah Stuart: and that emotional connection. Jennie: Yeah. Stuart: So because I still have a, a very strong emotional connection to what it is that I’ve just published, and I know there are two more books coming, I really wanted to sit and kind of immerse myself in that world. And the first object I created was this 3D printed ocean liner, because that has what has been sitting on my desk while I’ve been writing this first book. Jennie: So when you say you 3D printed it, how did you go about [00:08:00] that? Stuart: Okay, so I- Jennie: Oh, and, and let’s just describe, since people can’t see it. It’s, it’s about like eight inches, 10 inches? Uh, yeah, yeah. So- And it’s... Is it made of plastic? Stuart: Yeah. So it’s 3D printed, uh, so it’s kind of a, a resinous kind of plastic that’s- Yeah just melted as it comes through the head. And yeah, so I found, uh, a model online, and then I... My comput- my computer modeling is not great. It’s one of the few things that I’d see that I don’t really, you know, have a skill at. So I contacted a friend and said, you know, “Can you modify this for me? Um, can you change the name on the side of the ship?” ‘Cause the model that was already there, um, had a different name. And yeah, you know, we, we worked on the look and the feel, and then when we were ready, we found someone else to, to actually print it up. So for me, it’s just a lovely object, and I know I’m going to be able to take it to book fairs. There’s one coming up at the end of September- So I have little [00:09:00] wooden life rings, we have ship’s rope, I have a reception bell. Um, so all of these artifacts, again, when s- if somebody comes to my stand at the book fair, they will be walking into the world of the SS Celestial. Jennie: That’s so fun. Okay, so let’s, let’s talk about the, this, the ship and what happens on the ship and the story and the whole thing, ‘cause it’s just too much fun. So it’s, um, set in 1956 on a cruise ship. The name of the book is called All Hands on Dick, and it is currently out. So why don’t you tell us about first All Hands on Dick, and then the series that it, um, begins? Stuart: Okay. So All Hands on Dick follows cruise director Dick Dockery, and Dick is one of those people that puts the passengers’ needs before his own.

Jennie filmed this quick video message for everyone about today’s episode! Paid subscribers, come into the chat to respond! (Not a paid subscriber yet? That’s okay! You can become one today!) #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Host Jennie Nash talks with novelist and journalist Caroline Madden about why writers crave traditional publishing deals and how that desire can become an unhealthy obsession tied to external validation and “pick me” energy. Madden recounts a 20-year path to publication, including losing two agents and dying on submission, then changing her writing through Lisa Cron’s Story Genius, Nash’s Blueprint for a Book, and Donald Maass’s Writing the Breakout Novel Workbook; her later two novels earned deals, including her debut The Marriage Vendetta (HarperCollins) and a forthcoming book. They discuss how redefining “why,” setting a bigger North Star (for Madden, contributing to feminist issues), releasing desperation, and defining success concretely can stabilize writers through rejection and shifting goalposts. Madden advises seeking blunt, market-informed feedback from industry professionals and emphasizes control through craft and writing rather than chasing validation. #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Books Mentioned in this Episode * Story Genius by Lisa Cron * Writing the Breakout Novel by Donald Maass * The Marriage Vendetta by Caroline Madden The Substack Exchange We Couldn’t Find — We Found It! Blueprint Courses 👉 Enroll in the Fiction Blueprint Course 👉 Enroll in the Memoir Blueprint Course 👉 Enroll in the Nonfiction Blueprint Course Transcript Jennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. Hey, everyone. It’s Jennie, and I have a really fun episode today. I’m speaking with novelist Carolyn Madden, and we just had a fun interaction on Substack about a really profound thing, and we actually just tried to find our interaction, and we’re unable to do so. So we’re going to have to recreate what it was. But the topic that we’re talking about is why writers, especially debut writers, but all writers, so desperately want traditional publishing deals, what that desire is, what that feeling is. And I saw something that Carolyn wrote [00:01:00] on Substack and, and just was like, “This, this. Why is not everybody talking about this?” So we’re going to talk about this. So welcome. Caroline: Thank you so much, Jennie. I’m really thrilled to be here, especially because, um, I have your Blueprint for a Book, a nonfiction book that I ordered. I suppose it must have been maybe 10 years ago. Jennie: Oh my gosh. Well, that was what Caroline: was- 10... Would it be 10 years ago? Jennie: That was what was so... Part of what was so fun was I- Yeah ... I didn’t know who you were, and I responded to this note. And you said, “Oh, I, I know who you are. I have your book.” And, um- Yeah ... and here we are. So that Caroline: was- And you didn’t know that... Yeah, you didn’t know because I do recommend it a lot. So I, I... That’s so funny. Um, so it’s a pure coincidence. And I will say that this is... There was like a turning point. Just to go back a little bit, I’ve had a very, very long, uh, trip, uh, circuitous, scenic route to being published. So [00:02:00] my debut novel, The Marriage Vendetta, was published last year by Harper Collins. But... And it’s about a woman called Eliza, a musician. It’s based on a real-life character. But I have been working on some version of Eliza’s story for- 20 years now at this stage. So it took me more than a decade of actively trying to get published to get my book deal. And there was a pivotal moment where I was brought very low. It’s like in a novel where you have your dark night of the soul. I had lost my second agent. I had died on submission twice, and I thought, “I cannot keep doing this to myself because I will end up an old lady with a pile of unpublished novels. I either quit now or I do something differently.” And what I did was I was like, “Okay, I’m not giving up.” I went online, I ordered Story Genius by Lisa Cron, discovered you through that and bought this book, and I bought the Donald Maass book as well. And those three books were the turning points of my whole writing life, [00:03:00] and completely changed how I wrote. And if I hadn’t bought them, I would still be writing those pointless novels, Jennie, so I’m so grateful. Um- Jennie: Oh, my gosh. Wow. Yeah. So, so it was Lisa Cron’s Story Genius, and we have to get the name of Donald’s book, ‘cause it’s great and it’s ... I’m blanking on it right now. Um- Caroline: Yeah, the one that- I’m just- I have a couple, but it was, um, the How To ... I have it here. Yeah, Writing the Breakout Novel Workbook. This one. Okay. And the funny thing is, Jennie, I mean, last week when you, or the, whenever it was you contacted me, it was just such an exciting moment for me because that was such a pivotal book. But the weird thing is, and I just don’t know how this has happened, it’s like karma, I am now represented by the Donald Maass agency, but I never queried him. It was completely by accident, and I just think there’s some kind of karma at work. I don’t know. Um, Jennie: because I Caroline: haven’t- This is Jennie: crazy. Caroline: It’s just gone crazy. Jennie: It’s crazy. Yeah. It’s ... So more than a dozen years trying to get published, but [00:04:00] you- Yes ... but you write for The Irish Times, is that correct? You’re a journalist. Caroline: Uh, yeah, so, and this kinda comes back to what I was talking about on Substack. I decided I wanted to be published when I was sort of mid-20s, like as a novelist, but I thought, “I’ll start small. I’ll just start trying to get some, um, some small bits and pieces published. Okay, I’ll try and write some journalism.” I, I was working as a tax consultant at the time and I wanted to get out of it. And what happened was I did get some articles published, and then it actually turned into a whole career in journalism that went on for a long time, and I wrote for The Irish Times for a long time, all with the aim of getting a novel published. Jennie: Wow. Caroline: Yeah. Jennie: So, um, I, I actually did a, a speed read of The Marriage Vendetta. It’s such a fun- Thank you ... kind of romp of a, a story. It’s- Yeah ... it’s, um, it’s very feminist Thank you. It’s, it’s, um- Yeah ... funny. It’s dark. It’s, [00:05:00] uh, satire. I, I heard some people describe it as domestic thriller. Yeah. Um, so this, this book has come out now, um, well, last year, and you have another coming out next year. Is- Caroline: Yeah ... is it Jennie: in the Caroline: same Jennie: vein? Yeah. The same type of story? Caroline: It is. It’s a little bit darker, but it is, I suppose, a feminist thriller. And so in total, I’ve written four complete novels. Two of them I wrote before discovering Story Genius and Blueprint for a Book and Donald Maass, and those two died a death. They died. One, one of them died twice on submission, uh, two agents. The other one never even made it on submission. So I wrote two without this method, and I wrote two novels with this method, and both of those have got deals, so it was pivotal. But I think what we were talking about with Substack was I think I put something of saying like, it wasn’t until I stepped back and looked at this obsession that really I [00:06:00] mean, it took over my life. It, it’s why I went into journalism. I put everything into it, and I’ve met so many people, aspiring writers, who are the same. It’s a sort of fixation. It’s an obsession. And when I hit that low point of losing my second agent, I thought, “I’ve got to figure out what is driving this,” because this is destructive in my life. It’s actually an, an unhealthy addiction now at this point. And so obviously I thought, “Is it for the money?” Well, no, because you can make more money in practically any other line of work really, because I’d made no money from it. So- From being a lawyer ... so, you Jennie: know. Yeah. Caroline: Yeah, so it’s, it is not for the money. Okay, is it, um- To get a- a- an audience, to get your message out there. Well, I’m a journalist, so it can’t be that. Oh. Um, and so what I did was I ... I was just like, “Th- th- this, it must be just for sort of, like, the validation.” So what I decided, and I thought, that’s not a very healthy motivator, because it’s never enough, really. You get the book deal, [00:07:00] then, well, someone else got a bigger book deal. So I thought, I’ve got to get, have a ... I, this is gonna destroy me. I, I either have to quit or figure out a healthier perspective of it. So what I did was I zoomed right back out, a bigger picture. Like, let’s say at the end of my days and I look back and I think, “Yeah, that was a life well spent,” what does that look like? And I thought, well, let’s say I have five novels published and they were okay, and people like them. Is that big enough? And I thought, that’s not big enough. And what was important to me at that time were a lot of feminist issues, gender equality, and I thought, if I could move the needle even in the tiniest way on any of those sort of issues, now that is a life well spent. And so then writing a novel just became, that became my North Star. And then I thought, well, writing a novel is only a part of that. Okay, if I get a, uh, get to write a feminist novel with a, with a sort of subtle message, fantastic. It’s part of it. But there are so many other ways within my control that I could try at [00:08:00] least to- Contribute to feminist causes or those sort of things. Um, so it gave me back a sense of control. It put things in perspective as well, and it also took the focus off, like, the ego. Like, I want to be

In this episode of #amwriting, Jennie continues this series of “Write Big” episodes in which she vulnerably shares her own process of turning the Write Big concepts into a book, thanking listeners and inviting them to become paid subscribers. In this tough installment, recorded after a Zoom call with her agent while sick, she explains they are ending submission after sending the proposal to 30 publishers; feedback was largely positive, but publishers felt the book would be hard to break out without a large platform, and there was nothing actionable to change. Jennie feels sad about losing the chance for bookstore placement via a traditional deal, but emphasizes she does not feel rejected and believes strongly in the finished manuscript and her marketing plans. She plans to move forward independently, explore formats and special editions, and frames the moment as what “writing big” means: taking ownership, not playing small, and writing like it matters. #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Transcript [00:00:00] Hey everyone, it’s Jennie, and I’m here to introduce a series of episodes that I’m going to be doing. But before I do that, I just want to thank you for being a listener. I inherited this podcast from KJ, Jess, and Serena back in December, and didn’t really know how it was going to work with just me at the helm or what I was going to do to make it valuable to writers. And I’ve been finding my way, and I’ve just been so grateful that you’re continuing to listen. I appreciate it so much. I have a lot of really cool things planned coming up, so I hope you’ll keep listening, and I also hope that if you’re getting something from it, that you consider becoming a paid subscriber. That helps support me and the producer and assistants who help me put this together, and we would appreciate your support so much. Okay. So the reason that I wanted to introduce this upcoming series is that it’s a series of Write Big episodes that are about me and the project that I’m working on, and it feels a little vulnerable to be sharing in this way. I’ve had some mentors and advisors [00:01:00] suggest that maybe I shouldn’t do this because I’m here on the #amwriting podcast as an authority. I’m the book coach who coaches the book coaches and who has coached a lot of writers, and I come at you from that place of expertise. But in these next episodes, I’m coming at you as a writer my own self, and I’m coming with some pretty raw material. I debated whether or not I should share it at all, but I decided to go ahead. I think it’s the honest way to show that I’m here working on the Write Big issues right alongside you because every writer is. These are not just theoretical ideas. They’re ideas that we all have to wrestle with. It doesn’t matter that I’ve published 12 books or that I’ve coached hundreds of writers and thousands of book coaches. What matters is that I want the book I’m writing to be great, and I want it to make an impact, and I want it to be authentically me, and that’s what writing big is all about. So the [00:02:00] project that you’re going to hear me talk about is trying to turn the Write Big concepts into a Write Big book. And this episode that you’re gonna hear first is a pretty tough one. I want you to know that it all turns out just fine. I’m fine, and I’ll be sharing the journey of my bringing the Write Big book into the world with all of you as we go with some special opportunities to be inside the process with me and to help me make the book as good as it could be. This will all just be a small part of what I have planned for the #amwriting podcast, but I wanted to give you this context before you listen today, just so you know what this episode is all about and the next few ones that follow. Okay, now let’s get to it. This is a Write Big session where I’m bringing you short episodes about the mindset shifts that help you stop playing small and write like it matters. Today, I have a bad cold, as you can hear, but I just got off the Zoom with my agent, and I wanted to [00:03:00] capture this moment for all of you because I think it’s really important to capture it. So even though it was a sad call and I feel bad, I wanted to record this right now. And, um, it was sad because we decided that our submission efforts are over and they didn’t work. My agent submitted to 30 publishers, and the overall feedback was amazing, as I shared in some earlier episodes. It was just incredible how many people know me, know my work how well the proposal landed with people, how seriously they considered it. My agent did something that I’ve actually never seen before, which is that she had a spreadsheet, a Google spreadsheet, and she would share the feedback in the spreadsheet as it came in. So I have all of the feedback in this spreadsheet. I’m looking [00:04:00] at it right now. And so what my agent and I decided is that there was really nothing that we could do. There was nothing that we could control. Nobody was saying, “Go out and get a whole bunch of new followers and come back to us.” Nobody was saying anything about a different content or concept. There was just a general feeling that it would be hard to break this book out. I’m not famous, and I don’t have a big following, and I can’t get that. I can’t snap my fingers and, and make that a thing. There are a lot of books in this category from people that do have that. And so I just am at that disadvantage, and there’s, there’s nothing that we could do. So we decided that’s the end of the road. So what I wanted to capture, the reason I wanted to record this was, this is a book called [00:05:00] Write Big. And writing big in my mind- is not about going for it. That’s not what it’s about. It might be, and when you write big, you might do that, and what I was doing in trying to get a traditional deal for this book was going for it, and I’m sad I didn’t get it. That’s the sadness. I’m sad I didn’t get it. I really wanted this book to be in bookstores. I feel like it’s a book that would do really well in bookstores, and should be in bookstores. That was my primary goal for getting a traditional deal, because I’ve self-published the Blueprint books, and they sell very well, and they do very well. And the one publisher that we spoke to commented upon that, actually said, “You do so well. What can we... What could we do that’s different from what you’re already doing?” So that is an [00:06:00] interesting part of the conversation. But I want it to be in bookstores, and it’s hard to be in bookstores, really nearly impossible with a book like this from self-publishing. So the sadness is that I won’t have that. And but underneath all of that sadness and the disappointment that it didn’t work is a belief in what I’m doing. I have a finished manuscript. I have it out with two beta readers, and I’ll be talking about why I picked those two and what that process was and how the feedback from them has gone and what I’m doing with that feedback in later episodes. But I know that this material is good. I know that it’s useful. I’m excited about this material. My proposal had some killer marketing plan in it that I’m really excited to pursue without a [00:07:00] publishing partner, a traditional publishing partner, and some of the things that I wanna pursue will be easier without a publishing partner because I’ll have control over the pricing and special offers and giveaways and things like that. But I... the, this book is not... this, this news is not the end of this book by any stretch of the imagination. It’s just the end of this piece of what I wanted, and that’s the core belief, is that this, this idea is solid and sound, and I’m excited about it, and I wanna bring it into the world, and actually nothing is gonna stop me from doing that, and I feel a fierce, m- what is it? Desire to do that. So I don’t feel like this is a setback. I don’t feel like it’s a referendum on what I wrote. [00:08:00] I don’t feel like it’s personal I don’t feel rejected. Again, I just feel sad because I had a, a dream or a vision of that, of that bookstore thing. But, you know, what does that represent? It... What it means is that this book would get into writers’ hands, and it would get into writers’ hands in that way of, you know, someone wanders into a bookstore and they’re noodling around, and they are come upon that writer book reference shelf in which actually often several of my clients’ books sit. And which is kind of ironic. One of, one of the re- uh, rejection letters actually referenced that they already have a book similar-ish to mine which is somebody that I, that I helped. So, and one of my coaches helped. So, yeah, it’s a little bitter- [00:09:00] bittersweet part of that there, for sure. But, you know, the ultimate goal is that writers get this, and writers use this, and writers make something from the content in this book, and that can happen whether they encounter that book in the bookstore or not. So that is what is gonna happen. I will pursue this and move forward with this on my own. And, It, yeah, it feels, I’m just- I’m sort of closing my eyes and sitting here and trying to feel how I feel. I mean, I knew, I knew what was happening on this call. It wasn’t a surprise to me. It was, you know, we agreed to add the submission and to have this conversation today. So I wasn’t surprised by the news. But, you know, having the call is, is final and the agent that I chose for this project is lovely and loves my work and did it- did all she could do. Um, I have no, I have no, um, [00:10:00] feelings or regrets about her role in this. And yeah, I feel a little, uh... What do I feel? It’s, uh, it’s hard to know what you f

In a bonus #amwriting podcast episode, host Jennie Nash talks with academic writing coach Kathy Mazak of Scholar’s Voice (and host of Academic Writing Amplified) about how writers keep going after completing a blueprint and finish what they start. Mazak explains her mission-based work helping academics—especially women and non-binary scholars—publish their research by aligning time management and writing with an academic mission statement. She argues that big blocks of time are unrealistic and that one to two hours once or twice a week can be enough if protected and supported by project management systems. They discuss common obstacles like not honoring writing time, fear of disappointing oneself, and harsh peer review, and emphasize mindset work as at least half the solution. Mazak describes managing multiple projects by focusing on a top three, letting others “sleep,” and “killing” stalled “zombie projects,” plus recognizing stage transitions and solving the right problem at the right level. She shares details on her 12-week Navigate program (scholarsvoice.org/navigate) and why members stay for years. #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Learn more at http://scholarsvoice.org/. Transcript Jennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. Hey everyone, it’s Jennie, and I’m here with a bonus episode of the podcast because a lot of our community has been working on their blueprints this summer to begin a new project, find momentum for one that’s gotten derailed, or to work on a revision. And obviously stopping to think before you write is critical, but then the question is, what next? And how, how do we keep going? How do we finish what we started? And I invited my friend Kathy Mazak to join me today to have a conversation about this and to get her insights on this topic. Kathy, we’re in a business mastermind together. That’s how we met, [00:01:00] and we, um, immediately connected because Kathy runs a company called Scholar’s Voice, which you can find at scholarsvoice.com. She has an incredible strategic mind, and her work focuses on helping tenured professors get their research and writing out of the endless backlog and actually submitted and published. So it’s a different kind of writing than we normally talk about on the podcast, but I know we have a lot of a- academics in our audience, um, who are trying to write nonfiction or fiction or memoir, but also probably trying to publish the papers that are sitting on their desk. And Kathy helps so many people do that work and do it well, and she has really Amazing systems for doing that. And so she’s gonna talk a little bit about her program and what she offers at the end, um, or maybe at the beginning too. But, [00:02:00] um, welcome Cathy. Cathy: Yay. Thank you so much for having me. So I know that we met in the business mastermind, but I’ve been following you for many years before that, and been listening to this podcast, and been subscribed to this podcast for, like, at least since 2019 when I started to, like, look at other writing podcasts. Jennie: Yeah. Cathy: And so it is ... It actually has been, like, a dream of mine to be on this podcast, so it’s, like, so- Look at us ... great that we’re doing this here today. Yes. Jennie: I completely forgot to say that you have a podcast as well. What is, what is the name of that? Cathy: Yeah. The podcast is called Academic Writing Amplified. It has, like, we’re headed towards 350 episodes all about, like, getting your, uh, academic papers out there in the world when you’re a busy professor. So yeah. Jennie: One of the things that I most like about your business is the way you describe it as it’s really mission based. Yeah. It’s, it’s [00:03:00] really about helping academics take control of the narrative. Yeah. Right? Do you- Yeah ... do, will you tell us about that, ‘cause I love that. Cathy: Yeah. So for me, right, like, as a writing coach, so I was a full professor, like I went through, I have a PhD. I, I, I got my tenure track job. I went all the way through all the ranks, um, before I left and started this, uh, academic adjacent business. But I do it because, like, my big, like, mission is that the more, especially women and non-binary academics who get their papers out in the world, like, the more those voices are changing fields, and influencing research, and influencing thinking. And I just think, like, that is just so important. That’s why the business is called Scholar’s Voice, ‘cause it’s about getting more diverse, typically marginalized voices out in these research spaces. Um, so [00:04:00] to me that’s my mission, and when I have ... You know, when, when scholars come and do my program they write an academic mission statement, and really their whole time management, um, and writing project management, and sustainable writing practice is designed to, like, support that academic mission. So it’s a very mission based, uh, business for me. But it’s also, like, a, like my clients, like w- who take my programs are also, like, putting their academic missions, like, right at the center of their work. Which also puts writing at the center. Because to me, like, the writing is absolutely, is, is, like, the path to creating this better career, this focus on writing. Jennie: Well, and an academic has courses to teach and committees to go to, meetings to go to, and, you know, so many other demands on their time. And somebody trying to write a book has- Yep ... not [00:05:00] exactly those things, but probably a day job, and kids, and, you know, aging parents they have to care for, and the dog, and the car, and, you know, it’s, it’s writing in, in the real world. Mm-hmm. And the way you set your program up is you’ve honed this over so many years, i- and it’s designed to, to help people actually get the work done. Yeah. So can you tell us a bit about how you structure that program? ‘Cause I think it’ll be instructive to helping folks. Like, okay, here, you’ve finished your blueprint, now what? So- Yeah ... how do you, how do you get people to do it? Cathy: Yeah, yeah. So the first part is that I think that many people, when they think about writers, right, like if they just imagine themselves as a writer, they think that the ideal is, oh, I have like eight hours a day to dedicate to writing, or all my life, or whatever, you know, dreamy scenario we have in our minds. And I [00:06:00] think, like, for academics, i- the, the... it’s like, oh, I need to be on a sabbatical, or I need to not be teaching. I need to... I cannot be doing any other thing. Um, or I can be doing other things, but I need like these big blocks of time to write. And the problem is, like you’re saying, like writing in real life, like that just doesn’t happen. And then when it might happen for academics is over the holiday breaks, like the semester breaks or the summer, but that also isn’t true because you’re also like, you know, being a mom and, and th- you know, doing things with your family, and managing your house, and maybe your aging parents, and whatever else. Like there’s never a time where there’s like nothing going on. So we have to stop thinking that that’s the ideal and rather think, like what I tell my people, and they- Fight me on this, but at the beginning. But I tell them, actually one to two hours once or twice a [00:07:00] week is enough. Jennie: Ah. And Outro: they’ll be like, “No, Cathy: no, Outro: no, Cathy: I Outro: need-” Say that again. Cathy: Yeah, no. Say that again. One to two hours once or twice a week is enough, ‘cause remember, like, the low end of that means one hour a week, and the high end of that is four hours a week. And so a lot of times people come in and, and I’m, you know, for your, for the audience here, like, think about are you doing one hour a week consistently? Are you doing two hours a week consistently? If you’re not, then let’s just, like, back up and go there instead of thinking like, “Oh no, I need these big blocks of time that I can never actually get and hold.” ‘Cause that’s the other thing, it’s so hard to hold a big block. Um, like a four-hour block is hard to o- to hold. Uh, and also Outro: hard- Oh my gosh, four hours? ... to maintain your energy through. Cathy: No, no, people- What? No ... people have Outro: all kinds of ideas. Cathy: And I’m like, and, and the other thing too I think is related to this idea, like for my people, right, that the work day is, like, this eight-hour day. [00:08:00] Like, but you can’t ... I’m thinking you’re not knowledge work for eight hours a day. Like, your brain can’t do that, you know? So we really have to start, just, like, dial it back and start with, like, can I get consistency? Consistency doesn’t have to mean every day. Could I get consistent with one or two hours once or twice, or twice a week, and actually do writing during that time so I have project management skills that mean when I sit down I know what to work on, and see how that works? Because guess what? If you did that, you would be ... Like, everything would be moving towards publication, and there would be many more words on the page. Jennie: Well, I love that so much because one of the things that I find is- Well, with writing or business or anything is I’ll say, “Oh, I’m working so hard, and I’m so busy on it, and I’m spending all this time on it,” but really what I’m doing is sitting down at my desk and- Yeah rearranging, you know, [00:09:00] the folders on my desktop again. Or- Yeah ... um, you know, oh, I’ll just go take a little peek over on Instagra

Jennie Nash introduces an upcoming series of Write Big episodes that share her vulnerable, behind-the-scenes process of turning Write Big concepts into a Write Big book, thanking listeners and inviting paid subscriptions. In this episode, she revisits her “don’t wait to be picked” stance while confronting her own feelings as her book submission process stretches seven or eight months with rejections. She examines the discomfort beneath wanting to be chosen—entitlement and exceptionalism, loneliness and the desire for an ally, embarrassment about ambition, doubts tied to leadership and authority, and the burden of carrying the project alone if she isn’t picked. Jennie argues that whether writers are picked or not, the creative road is still hard and what matters is one’s response, which she frames as the core of writing big. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Jennie Nash hosts a #amwriting podcast BookLab with guest Kathleen Barber, author of Truth Be Told and newly released Sisterhood Above All (co-written with Amayah Shaienne), and discusses Barber’s range across thrillers and romance, her character-first approach, and how RushTok inspired an authentic sorority-rush thriller featuring Madison, Shay, and Ava as tensions escalate and someone dies. They define RushTok as viral TikTok coverage of University of Alabama sorority recruitment and note its broad international fascination. In the BookLab, they evaluate three first-page submissions by asking “Would we turn the page?” They praise Heather’s Trust Me for strong voice, vivid Austin setting, and an intriguing problem hook, with minor notes about genre context. They decline Odeon Omega due to unearned logistics and too much dialogue despite an intriguing title/advert. They find Empty Spaces compellingly written but confusing from too many names and unclear stakes, suggesting more interiority and clarity. #AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Connect with Kathleen Visit Kathleen’s website to find her books and more: https://www.kathleenbarber.com Transcript Jennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. This is a book lab session where we answer the most important question about your first pages. Would we pick up the book? Would we turn the page? Today, I have a really special guest with me. I have Kathleen Barber here, who is so many things. She’s the author of Truth Be Told, which was adapted as a series on Apple TV, Follow Me, Both Things Are True, and just brand new, like it came out four days ago, Sisterhood Above All, with, I’m gonna try her name, Amaya Chen? How do you- Barbara: Yeah. Uh, um, yeah. That’s, that’s very close. I think it’s Amaya Chen. Jennie: Okay. Yeah. Uh, so we’re gonna hear about that in a minute. Um, I haven’t, I haven’t cracked it open yet, but I’m so [00:01:00] excited for it. Um, Kathleen’s also an Author Accelerator certified book coach and a former attorney, and she lives in Washington, DC with her family. So welcome, Kathleen. Barbara: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here. Jennie: So I watched your unboxing the other day. It was so fun, and I didn’t realize that we had scheduled this right on top of, like the actual- Oh ... launch of your book. Barbara: No, that, that’s okay. It’s, it’s great. Um, it gives me something to think about that’s not just, like, spiraling. Like, is anybody gonna read my book? Is anybody gonna like it? Um, so it gives me something else to focus on. Jennie: Well, it’s so interesting you say that because I think of you as this really seasoned pro and, you know, it’s been really interesting for me to watch your career because you’ve written some really different kinds of books. You did a ... Well, your first book was obviously a big thriller and a huge success, and at one point, you pivoted to romance, and now you’re doing ... Well, I, I saw that book list [00:02:00] called Sisterhood Above All, a soapy thriller Yes. Yes ... which is such a great description, and you did it with a collaborator. So you just seem interested in story to me. Barbara: I, I am. Yeah. I’m always very ... I always start a story with the characters. Um, and so then their story kind of spirals out from there. Um, yeah, so I, my last book that came out before this one was, was a rom-com. Um, and I was really nervous when I started writing it. I was like, “How am I going to write this when I’ve been writing suspense and thrillers before?” And it turns out that, like, at the heart of it, stories are stories, and people are people, and, you know, in a romance, happy things happen. In a thriller, bad things happen, but things still happen. Jennie: Amazing. So give us the overview of the brand new book, ‘cause it’s, it’s really juicy. Barbara: Yeah. Yeah, so I’m really excited about it. Um, Sisterhood Above All is a thriller set during sorority rush, and so it follows three different [00:03:00] women who are involved there. There’s Madison, who is the president of what’s she perceives as to be the coolest sorority on campus, so she’s kind of the gatekeeper, and there’s Shay, who is the president of a rival sorority and trying to shake, shake up the Greek institutions, and then there’s Ava, who is a potential new member. She’s going through rush. She’s desperate to join Madison’s sorority, um, and she might be a little too desperate. Uh, so you know, it’s a thriller. Bad things happen. Somebody dies, um, you know, and things kind of spiral out, spiral out of control. Jennie: But tell us about the collaboration, ‘cause it’s- Yeah ... so interesting how that came about and how it went and- Barbara: Yeah. You know, it was, it was a lot of fun. Um, I, like many writers, write alone, and I had never really considered collaborating with anybody before, um, but- But when I was kind of talking about this, I, I’d been pitching my agent a sorority themed thriller for a while. [00:04:00] Um, and at one point when, when Rush Talk was getting really big a couple summers ago, she was like, “This is the moment. This, you should write this book, but I think that in order to make it feel more authentic, we should bring in somebody who’s living this in this moment.” Um, so one of her colleagues found Amaya, who, um, was up until very, very recently an active member of a sorority at the University of Alabama, and brought us together. And Amaya and I got along right away, and we both had kind of the same vision for what we wanted the book to be, and so collaborating with her was, was a lot of fun in a way that I had been nervous that it wouldn’t be. But it was, it was a really good time, and I’m really, really proud of the book. Jennie: So for those who don’t know or weren’t following, can you tell us what Rush Talk- Barbara: Yeah was Jennie: or is Barbara: or- Yeah ... shall be? Yes, yes, yes. So, um, so if you’re gonna join a sorority, um, you go through, you go through recruitment and which is very slangily [00:05:00] called rush. Um, and so on TikTok a few years ago, um, people started sharing about their experiences during sorority rush, but specifically, uh, during sorority rush at the University of Alabama. Um, and it really took on a life of its own, like people were watching it like it was, you know, a television program. Uh, they made a documentary about it, which, you know, I’ll, I will let you make your own conclusions about the documentary. Um, but people just got really, really into it, and people... And it was kind of appealing to people who had gone through sorority rush at some point, were thinking about going through a sorority rush, or who were just invested in, you know, watching people have these kind of outlandish experiences and, and share them. So, um, it Jennie: was a lot of fun. My understanding was that it got very, very popular in other countries? Barbara: I- it’s definitely... [00:06:00] Yeah. You know, um- So sorority, some, some sororities are international. Not, not all of them are. Um, but by and large, when they say international, they mean that there are chapters in Canada, not that, like, there are chapters in, you know, like Europe or, or other countries. And so it just, it’s something that is so unique and so, like, uniquely about, like, this type of college experience that I think it’s been really interesting to people in lots of different places. Jennie: Yeah, yeah. Fascinating. So obviously the book has been out, like, mere hours here. But, um, how does it feel? Are you, are you- It’s exciting you said you were excited and proud and- So Barbara: exciting. Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m really, really proud of the book. I love it. I mean, I know everybody, like, loves their own books, but I do. I truly, like, love this book, and I just really hope that the readers do too. Jennie: You know, it’s not true that everybody loves their book. I, I was dying to have somebody on the podcast who will never come on the podcast. But I- Yeah ... I heard a story about somebody who [00:07:00] got a seven-figure deal for a book that they really didn’t actually love, and then- Oh, no ... they, they wrote it. It came out, and then when they had to co- come time to do the publicity, they just dreaded it. They, it was like a, just they did it for the money. They got the money, and then didn’t, didn’t wanna talk about it, like felt sort of ashamed about it. And I was like, “Oh, please, come talk about that.” But of course they, they won’t. So... Barbara: That’s wild. Isn’t that wild? That’s wild. Yeah. I just, I just can’t even imagine how that would feel. Um, I mean... Jennie: I know. Well, I, uh, the cover of this, um, of this new book, Sisterhood Above All, is- is really cool too. So we will link to it in the show notes, and everyone can go read it and check it out, and, um, Kathleen’s other books, I’ve read them all, and you have such range and, um, like I said, [00:08:00] interesting stories. So with that, let’s get to our, our Book Lab entries. We just always wanna start by thanking those who submitted. It’s not easy to do this, to put your stuff out there with no context and no ability to talk back or anything and have random s- people on the internet, you know, talk about your stuff. So really appreciate the, the risk-taking of doing that, and we do this in order to help us all get better and, and learn, you know, what works and, and, um, for your own self or your own writing, what, what you want it to be. So what we’re gonna

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit amwriting.substack.com Jennie Nash hosts a hot seat coaching episode with #amwriting producer Andrew Perrella, who shares a 5,000-word draft of his Gothic vampire novel to be offered to paid subscribers. Jennie praises the draft as unusually strong and “authoritative,” then coaches Andrew on higher-level editorial concerns: pacing, density of information before the action, and adding more interiority so readers understand Abrianna’s reactions and risk-taking, especially her choice to follow a vampire into an alley. They discuss the funeral setting, the presence of major characters (including an executor and Seward), and the theme that multiple people are watching Abrianna while the reader lacks key knowledge (including that the vampire is her mother). Jennie recommends using and updating the blueprint as a living “as-is” outline to track reveals, and they set a four-week deadline for Andrew to deliver 50 pages plus the blueprint.