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In early 2025, Mitchell Jones sat in his basement in Ohio and burned a few hundred dollars trying to build an AI agent that fills out forms, a job that should have taken an afternoon. He kept paying for access to the same models through different wrappers. That friction turned into a company. Bill talks with Mitchell, founder and CEO of Lava, about how that basement experiment became a business, and then a different business. Lava started as a gateway: one key and one bill for every model, on the bet that AI is a utility and every utility ends up on a meter. Then users at an event kept asking to plug it into Claude. Instead of telling them they were using it wrong, Mitchell asked why. That answer turned Lava into what it is today, an AI agent that works inside the tools a business already runs on, like QuickBooks, Gmail, Salesforce and HubSpot, with no engineering required. They get into why Cursor's simple layout (your work on the left, an agent on the right) beat the blank chat box, why customers rarely describe their pain cleanly, and why you should fall in love with the mice problem instead of your mousetrap. Mitchell makes the case for planning in three-, six- and nine-month windows while still building an all-weather business, and for building something that gets better as the models get better instead of fighting the frontier labs. Bill closes with a challenge for leadership teams: if you aren't using AI every hour of the workday, ask your AI what you're missing. Then find the enthusiasts already in your company, buy them lunch every week, and have each one share something cool they did with AI and something they're stuck on. Before Lava, Mitchell co-founded LendTable, a Y Combinator company he scaled to about 40 people and $40 million raised. He's a Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree and has worked at Meta and spent time at Yale. In This Episode How a basement side project turned into LavaWhy AI is a utility, and why every utility ends up on a meterThe customer question that turned a payment gateway into an AI agentWhat Cursor got right that most AI tools still missLove the mice problem, not your mousetrapWhy founders should plan in three-, six- and nine-month windows right nowBill's hourly AI rule and the weekly lunch-and-learn for your flag bearersWhy you shouldn't trust an AI answer that came back in two seconds Guest Links Lava: lava.so Host Links Scaling Coach: scalingcoach.comBusy Is Broken: busyisbroken.comCEO Behavior Study: scalingcoach.com/study Scaling Up Business Podcast with Bill Gallagher

When Apple announced it was opening retail stores in 2001, analysts gave the idea two years before the lights went out. Twenty-five years later, Apple Stores are the most profitable retail spaces on earth — more sales per square foot than Tiffany — and the man who built them says the secret was never technology. It was kindness. Bill talks with Ron Johnson, the creator of the Apple Store and the Genius Bar, about what it actually took to build the fastest retail concept ever to a billion dollars in annual sales. Ron was the senior vice president of retail at Apple, working directly with Steve Jobs. Before Apple, he helped Target win the discount wars through design — pioneering the first-ever retailer-designer collaboration and riding the design wave of the 1990s. After Apple, he took the CEO role at J.C. Penney, which he candidly calls a disaster: he treated a century-old department store like a tech startup, moved too fast for the teams and the customers, and got it wrong. Ron talks about why Apple built stores in the first place (Steve's "five down, ninety-five to go" — they were going after everybody, not the existing five percent), and why the number-one enemy wasn't Microsoft, it was fear. He explains how the Genius Bar was built around service over tech credentials — the kind of person who could go toe to toe with Steve on technology but whom the Ritz-Carlton would hire as a greeter — and why he fought to keep it walk-in and resisted the appointment system. He shares why he chased a long-held dream to kill the cash register, moving Apple to mobile checkout a decade before the rest of retail (300 employees ringing up 300 iPads a minute at the Fifth Avenue store on iPad launch day). And he gets at the ideas in his new book Shop Different: that you haven't earned the right to win a new customer until you've taken care of the one you've disappointed, that every relationship is either launching, deepening, or restoring, and that in an age of AI the physical store and human connection matter more, not less — because as the world gets more convenient, people convene more. Ron is now a Professor of the Practice at Georgia Tech and a sought-after keynote speaker. His book Shop Different: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius, co-authored with Zander Nethercutt, is published by HarperCollins on September 22, 2026 — the 25th anniversary of the first Apple Store. Scaling Up Business Podcast with Bill Gallagher In This Episode Guest Links Host Links Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

Everybody says they want to know how they're doing as a CEO. Then they fill the board with friendly faces, let the team filter the bad news, and cancel coaching when the numbers get ugly. Bill tells the story of interviewing his own leadership team at the jewelry company he ran for eleven years, and hearing two leaders tell him he was the wrong kind of leader. He explains what he did with that, why it led to a turnaround, and why feedback lands like a verdict when your identity is wrapped up in your role. Then the prescription: a real scorecard for the CEO that someone else holds you to, anonymous questions to your team, and the discipline to say thank you instead of explaining. In This Episode Why "how am I doing?" is usually asked in a way that guarantees "great"The Fernando Flores style assessment interview and how to run oneFive ways CEOs avoid the truth: no CEO scorecard, a friendly board, a filtering team, skipped coaching, and cancelled quarterly planningWhy you know you are a micromanager but not how severe it looks from the other sideThis week: ask one person an uncomfortable question, then shut up and listen Host Links Scaling Coach: scalingcoach.comBusy Is Broken: busyisbroken.comCEO Behavior Study: scalingcoach.com/study Scaling Up Business Podcast with Bill Gallagher

Most organizations are still built like machines — standardized, siloed, controlled from the top. Jana Werner calls them Tin Man organizations: rigid, efficient in a predictable world, but rusting solid the moment things get complex. And right now, with AI accelerating change faster than any planning cycle can absorb, everything is complex. In this conversation with Bill Gallagher, Jana breaks down the core idea of her Harvard Business Review Press book, The Octopus Organization, co-authored with Phil Le-Brun. An octopus has two-thirds of its neurons in its arms — each arm can sense, react, and make decisions independently while the central brain sets direction. That's the model for companies that actually thrive: distributed intelligence, fast learning, and radical adaptability. Not the five-year plan. Not the top-down transformation. Small experiments, rapid iteration, meaningful results. Jana shares what she sees advising Fortune 500 executive teams at AWS — including two CXOs in the same week telling her "my people aren't imaginative enough," only to discover through coaching that the organization itself had trained the imagination out of them. She and Bill dig into the thirty-six antipatterns the book catalogues — conditioned habits like jargon that creates no clarity, zombie projects that never tackle the hardest problem first, and approval layers that take five months while AI can build a prototype in five days. The conversation keeps circling back to one uncomfortable truth: the biggest antipattern is usually the leader's own shadow. The AI section is particularly sharp. Jana makes the case that if all AI development stopped today, companies would still need five years to catch up with what's already available. At Amazon, when they debate building one prototype or another, they now just build both — because the delivery cost is converging toward zero. But their organizational approvals still take months. The organizations haven't caught up to the technology. In This Episode Guest Links Host Links Scaling Up Business Podcast with Bill Gallagher Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

This is the finale of the Busy Is Broken solo series — and the book is out today. No cautionary tales. No data. Just the declaration at the heart of the book: the manifesto, adapted for your ears, and a challenge. Do less. Do it better. Do it together. Pick one thing from this thirteen-part series and do it this week. The shift starts with a single decision, practiced until it becomes a habit. Keep scaling — but take down some sail first. Links: busyisbroken.com | scalingcoach.com/Q20 Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

Michel Kripalani worked 360 days a year for over two decades building video game and app companies. Then his father got sick and the surgery was moved up. Michel rebooked his flight — but it landed too late. His wife Karen named the truth that changed everything: there are moments that are negotiable, and moments that are not. So Michel rebuilt the company into a passive-income engine and became an owner, not an operator. "If you want to know your values, don't check your mission statement. Check your Tuesday." Links: busyisbroken.com | scalingcoach.com/Q20 Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

Johan Roos co-invented LEGO Serious Play — the method that has leaders think with their hands instead of their mouths, because the medium you use changes what you can see. Now, with everyone pouring every ounce of oxygen into AI, Johan has written a book arguing that the same forces can quietly erode the very human capabilities that method was built to unlock. And the kicker: he and Bill both have sons working at the leading edge of AI, so this isn't a view from the sidelines. In this episode, Bill and Johan circle the heart of Johan's new book, Human Magic: Leading with Wisdom in an Age of Algorithms — and they start, fittingly, with the physical. Bill talks about wing foil surfing; Johan about riding horses and shoveling out the stable. Both describe the same thing: embodied, full-body experience that AI can't touch. From there they get into Johan's central claim — that every single day, in tiny micro-decisions, you either amplify or erode your own curiosity, creativity, critical thinking, communication, and collaboration. One path takes energy and sharpens you; the other is soothing, invisible, and slowly fills your work with the machine's output instead of your own. It's a choice, he insists, not a fate. They get practical fast. Johan's first rule for leaders: if you're not using AI yourself, every hour of every day, stop talking about it. He tells the story of standing in front of 1,300 business school leaders, running an old-school Oxford Union debate and then a live AI voice assistant on stage — because the medium is the message. He lays out his "wisdom compass" — four questions (what matters, what is right, what resonates, what works) that should stay anchored in you, not outsourced to a large language model ("they're large language models, not large thinking models"). They talk sycophancy, the erosion of reasoning relative to feeling, Toulmin's argument mapping for critical thinking, and the danger of teenagers and young professionals using AI as a substitute for their own grunt work. Johan's distinction for companies: don't just redesign roles around AI (structural erosion) — also protect how your people think (behavioral erosion). His closing challenge to leaders: subtract the AI output from your last big discussion — what's left, and how do you measure it? It earns him blank faces every time. In This Episode Guest Links Host Links Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

After twenty years of coaching CEOs, Bill sees the same four patterns in nearly every leader who's stuck. They're not moral failures. They're the moves that feel like virtue while quietly destroying your company. Poor Delegation — meet Thomas. Micromanagement — meet Lee. Perfectionism — meet Eddie. Strategic Myopia — meet Rocky. These compound in a doom loop. This week's work: rate yourself on each sin. There's a scored version at busyisbroken.com, plus a parallel version your team can fill out about you. Links: busyisbroken.com | scalingcoach.com/Q20 Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

Ron Friedman surveyed six thousand teams expecting to find that the most collaborative ones win. The data said the opposite. Ron is a social psychologist (PhD, University of Rochester), bestselling author of The Best Place to Work and Decoding Greatness, and founder of Super Teams. The headline number: the average team burns eighteen hours a week in meetings and another eleven on email and messages — twenty-nine hours gone before anyone does real work. Super teams aren't smarter. They're just deliberate — fifty percent better at avoiding unnecessary meetings, fifty-four percent better at killing recurring ones. Guest Links: superteams.com Host Links: scalingcoach.com/Q20 | busyisbroken.com Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

Tony Hartl built a chain of tanning salons to 17 locations and 160 employees, sold it in a recession for tens of millions — and then took ten years off. Not to retire. To learn how to climb the mountain a second time without losing everything he lost the first time. The first climb: Planet Tan, built from a $10K loan when Tony was 26. He did every job and grew it to 17 salons before selling at 39. The cost showed up off the balance sheet — his marriage lasted seventeen months and change. Now he's building Undefeated Tribe and Crunch Fitness — 70-plus locations approaching 100, 3,500 employees, $200M-plus in revenue. He meditates every morning, cooks about 70% of his family's dinners, and almost never stays overnight on a business trip. Links: busyisbroken.com | scalingcoach.com/Q20 Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

Lee Benson's boss told him to shut the company down. Instead, he took on six hundred thousand dollars in debt and two employees he couldn't afford to pay. He almost went bankrupt fifteen times in that first year. Twenty-three years later, he sold Able Aerospace to Textron Aviation for well north of a hundred million dollars — and the guy who said "it'll never work" walked away with a check for over thirty million. Lee and Bill go deep on the origin story: how refusing a buyer's demand for all-expenses-paid Vegas trips cost them their only customer overnight, how Lee pivoted from job-shop electroplating to going direct to helicopter operators at twenty-three percent of new-part costs, and how a company that started with a data plate and a dream eventually grew to three hundred thousand square feet of manufacturing. The conversation explores Lee's MIND system (Most Important Number and Drivers) — one number per team that let him run a 540-person company in fifteen hours a week while growing twenty-plus percent compounded for fifteen straight years. Plus: AI as an accelerator of value creation, why meaningful struggle is non-negotiable, and why the scarcest commodity on the planet is positive emotional energy. In This Episode Guest Links Book: Your Most Important Number (WSJ bestseller) | etw.com | Dinner Table community: dinnertable.com Host Links ScalingCoach.com | Q20 Growth Diagnostic: scalingcoach.com/Q20 | busyisbroken.com Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

AI was supposed to give us our time back. For a lot of leaders, it's done the opposite — one more inbox, one more tool, one more thing to keep up with. This bonus episode in the Busy Is Broken series asks the only question that matters: is AI actually making you more effective, or just busier in a shinier way? Bill draws the line between motion and progress. The big top-down AI initiatives tend to stall, because tools dropped on an overloaded team just add load. What he sees working instead is quieter and more durable: the leaders getting real leverage use AI in small ways across every hour of every day, and the teams that compound their learning are the ones where small groups share what's working and brainstorm together every week. The takeaway is pure Busy Is Broken: a faster way to do the wrong work is still the wrong work. Before you add another AI tool, get honest about whether it's buying back your best hours or just helping you produce more noise, faster. Effective beats busy — even when busy has a chatbot. Links: Busy Is Broken book and free diagnostic: busyisbroken.comQ20 Growth Diagnostic: scalingcoach.com/Q20 Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

Arif Abdulla joined Nurse Next Door at twenty-three years old, fresh out of university, drawn by the demographics and financial potential of home care. Then he met Mrs. Wong — and watched her caregiver Steven doing her hair and makeup every morning, making her feel beautiful. When Steven walked into the office months later with tears streaming down his face because Mrs. Wong had passed, Arif realized this business was about something much deeper than logistics. Twenty years later, he's VP of Franchise Development for a company that grew from one Vancouver location to more than four hundred franchise units across Canada, the US, the UK, and Australia. Bill and Arif dig into what it takes to scale a deeply human, community-based business through franchising. The conversation covers why Nurse Next Door chose the franchise model over corporate expansion — the business is so community-focused that they needed local leaders embedded in their markets. Arif shares the three traits he looks for in franchise partners: sales aptitude, leadership ability, and genuine work ethic. He's candid about the mistakes made early on by accepting partners who weren't the right fit, and how he now has the discipline to end a process even when a candidate is ready to write the check. The episode also explores Nurse Next Door's key differentiator — centralizing the 24/7 scheduling component so franchisees can focus on recruiting and sales rather than burning out on around-the-clock operations. In This Episode Guest Links Arif Abdulla — VP of Franchise Development, Nurse Next Door nursenextdoorfranchise.com | nursenextdoor.com Host Links ScalingCoach.com | Q20 Growth Diagnostic: scalingcoach.com/Q20 | busyisbroken.com Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

In the summer of 2009, Bill and his wife made good on a promise they'd made before kids and before the business got serious: they'd take the family to Italy for a month when the kids were old enough to remember it. The business was shaky. The timing was terrible. They went anyway. Episode nine of the Busy Is Broken series is the story of what happened to the company while Bill was gone — and the ten months of rewiring it took to make leaving possible. The forcing function was simple and brutal: a real date on the calendar with plane tickets attached. Not an imaginary "someday." Bill had to confront an uncomfortable truth — he'd built and led the company in a way that guaranteed he could never truly step away. So he spent about ten months changing it. What happened in Italy? The company moved forward. The team didn't crumble, because they were leaning on their own judgment instead of his. Here's the test for you: if you had to leave for a month starting tomorrow, what would break? Name it. Then spend the next quarter making your absence survivable. Links: Busy Is Broken book and free diagnostic: busyisbroken.comQ20 Growth Diagnostic: scalingcoach.com/Q20 Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study

What happens when you start selling at six years old — not lemonade, but industrial machinery parts? Doug C. Brown figured out the math of leverage before he finished second grade: why work forty hours for ten dollars when you can sell one part in six minutes and make the same? That early wiring never left him. From military service to selling music equipment to Aerosmith and Paul McCartney, from nuclear medicine to telecom where he helped grow a company from $62 million to $368 million in two years as their number one rep, Doug's career is a masterclass in following the leverage. Doug joins Bill to unpack his concept of Win-Win-Win Selling — the idea that every deal should produce three winners: you, your buyer, and someone else who benefits from the transaction. He shares the origin story behind this philosophy, born from watching too many reps stuff commissions by selling clients things they didn't need, simply because they didn't have enough prospects in the pipeline. Doug explains how he built an internal partner channel at his telecom company — connecting telephone hardware vendors with his cost-saving service so that clients saved money, vendors sold more phone systems, and Doug's phone rang sixty-two times a day with inbound leads. The conversation digs into what actually separates top 1% performers from everybody else. Doug breaks it down to four things: always thinking in terms of leverage, systematizing everything, continuously building business skills, and continuously building personal skills. Bill and Doug trade war stories about the car dealership model of win-lose selling, the brutal economics of department store procurement, and the costly lesson Doug learned when he walked into a multi-million dollar meeting totally unprepared while six people on the other side had done their homework. They also explore the power of follow-up — Doug's two-year nurture that landed NASCAR, his mentor Chet Holmes' five-year pursuit of Jay Abraham and even longer play to land Tony Robbins, and why a simple quarterly "just thinking about you" message builds the kind of relationship capital that changes careers. In This Episode About the Guest Doug C. Brown is the CEO of CEO Sales Strategies and author of Win-Win Selling: Unlocking Your Power for Profitability by Resolving Objections. A military veteran, former musician, and nuclear medicine professional turned sales leader, Doug has helped companies from startups to Fortune 500s build revenue growth systems. He was the #1 sales rep at a telecom company that grew from $62M to $368M, served as President of Training and Sales under Tony Robbins, and has worked with brands like Enterprise, Procter & Gamble, and NASCAR. His mission: helping business owners and sales professionals break into the top 1% of earners. Links & Resources Stuck? The Q20 Growth Diagnostic will give you a fresh perspective and it's free. ScalingCoach.com/Q20 Our new book, Busy is Broken, coming this September. Sign up for the release at busyisbroken.com Mentioned in this episode: PhD Research on CEOs Quick favor: I'm in the middle of my doctoral research, and I need CEOs Here's the question: is there a point where working more hours actually indicates a worse leader? Nobody has measured it. I'm measuring it. If you're a CEO or president with at least ten people in the business and three direct reports, it takes just a few minutes. And Your team answers a few anonymous questions. What you get back is a report comparing how you rate yourself to how your team rates you. That gap is usually the interesting part. ScalingCoach.com/study