Advertise on podcast: And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan

Today's guest is the Swedish producer and songwriter behind "Problem," "Into You," "Love Me Like You Do," "No Tears Left To Cry," "Santa Tell Me," and "Unholy,". He finally sits down with Ross for an And The Writer Is interview ten years in the making. He taught himself to make music from a demo CD that came in a cereal box. A radio singing contest got him discovered, and he signed a publishing deal at 17. It then took him ten years to land his first real hit. He tells Ross how a year of playing FIFA with Shellback led to Wolf Cousins, and what Max Martin's famous "math" actually is. If you've ever wondered how the biggest pop songs of the last decade actually get finished, this one's for you And The Writer Is... Ilya Salmanzadeh! JOIN THE ATWI PATREON Monthly Zoom hangs, demo feedback, special guests and 200+ archived audio episodes (Charli XCX, Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface and more): Patreon.com/andthewriteris THANKS TO OUR SPONSOR SPLICE Try Variations in the Splice Sounds plugin. It makes new versions of any Splice sample with a different structure, key and BPM, and the original creators get paid every time. Splice.com CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: what Max Martin's "math" really means 1:32 Welcome Ilya Salmanzadeh 3:12 What MXM is: "like Real Madrid signed me" 4:46 Jantelagen: why Swedes won't brag 9:57 Born in Iran, raised in Denmark 16:22 A cereal-box CD and teaching himself music 19:54 The hits: Problem, Into You, Unholy and more 21:32 Early influences: Tracy Chapman, Michael Jackson, hip-hop 24:50 Why the world's biggest pop writers live in Stockholm 27:14 Wanting to be an R&B artist 32:36 The radio singing contest that got him discovered 37:26 Ten years from publishing deal to first hit 39:09 Telemarketing and Apple tech support 43:08 The immigrant drive to prove he belongs 46:21 His first cut: the Bratz album 48:20 A year of FIFA with Shellback and the birth of Wolf Cousins 52:37 The MXM pop family tree 54:21 Competition vs. family inside MXM 58:40 Max Martin: "Why aren't you in LA?" 1:00:41 What Max Martin taught him about songwriting 1:03:13 "Problem": Savan Kotecha's original voice memo 1:08:59 The morning "Problem" hit #1 on iTunes 1:10:57 His father and the number he keeps seeing 1:14:31 Weeks on one pre-chorus: making "Into You" 1:21:55 "Love Me Like You Do" started as a Sunday hang 1:27:08 Producer vs. writer credits: "Bad Blood" and "Bang Bang" 1:31:42 His creative wavelength with Ariana Grande 1:32:23 "No Tears Left To Cry" breaking the pop rules 1:34:00 "God is a woman" was almost for Beyoncé and JAY-Z 1:35:48 Ariana Grande as a producer1:37:27 "Unholy": the hotel staff, Max and his daughter 1:44:20 When a release doesn't hit 1:47:11 14-hour days: how he finishes so much music 1:48:57 Chris Martin, Coldplay and the "mind movie" 1:52:17 Why he keeps working with new artists (Tate McRae, LISA) 1:54:53 "eternal sunshine" vs. "petal": the two-room process 1:56:54 "Santa Tell Me" and chasing a Christmas classic 1:59:24 Has Ilya finally proven his worth to himself? And The Writer Is, hosted by Ross Golan, is a podcast about the songwriters, producers and artists behind the songs you love. Instagram: instagram.com/andthewriteris Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is a multi-platinum rapper and songwriter who took Compton to the charts and gave the world “My Hitta,” “Who Do You Love?” and “Big Bank.” From his debut album My Krazy Life to collaborations with Drake, Nipsey Hussle, and Nicki Minaj, he’s built a catalog that’s done serious damage to club speakers. Now, with The Gentlemen’s Club, he’s getting personal and reminding everyone there’s a storyteller behind the hits. And The Writer Is… YG! In this episode we go deep on: - The inspiration behind his new album - The Def Jam singles deal with five album options: "I could have sued everybody" - What he'd tell an 18-year-old holding a label offer - Why having a catalog doesn't mean you own it - What a YG session looks like: tequila, "next beat," and a BPM in his head - How "FDT" got made with Nipsey, and why Def Jam wouldn't release it - The night Nicki said "don't put this out without me" - "Who Do You Love?": three months, hook writers, and Drake telling him to do it himself And much more... Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, our Patreon! Patreon.com/andthewriteris And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. Chapters 0:00 Intro 0:32 Hiring a "Hitman" 8:07 "Were you ever suicidal?" and the homies who said "same" 9:10 Chin up, chest out: what the streets never let you say 10:28 "2004," the song he cut from the album 24:31 Turning himself in while his song blew up, and the label that called his mom 27:31 Signing young: "I could have sued everybody" 28:24 Ross: athletes get rookie orientation, artists get "good luck" 34:57 What he'd tell an 18-year-old holding a label offer 39:40 The masters trap: you have a catalog, but you don't own it 41:30 What a session with YG actually looks like 47:39 Why he made Gentleman's Club: "they were playing with my name" 50:10 How "Hollywood" with Shoreline Mafia got made 53:51 How "FDT" happened with Nipsey, and why Def Jam passed 59:40 Meeting Nipsey: two different gangs, one mission 1:05:56 How do you stay brave when the people around you get killed? 1:10:59 The night "My Hitta" got made 1:13:03 "Big Bank": Nicki says don't put it out without me 1:18:15 What he knows at 36 that he didn't at 20: the streets don't love you back 1:27:20 "Who Do You Love?": three months and Drake's "you do the hook" 1:30:02 What makes a Mustard beat different Credits Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is a singer, songwriter, producer and dancer who has spent her career trusting her own instincts—and building a world around them. From “2 On” to “Nasty” and “No Broke Boys,” Tinashe has kept releasing music through major-label deals, independent projects and viral breakthroughs. She’s collaborated with artists including Calvin Harris, Charli xcx and Kaytranada, and joins us to talk about the journey behind it all. And The Writer Is... Tinashe! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.Splice, the best sample library on the market, period. and our lead sponsor, our Patreon page! We're still giving away free Universal Audio Recording Gear in our next zoom hang. Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro 0:46 Tinashe and Ross reconnect—back to The Stunners 3:48 “Deep in the Night”—the song she wrote at five 5:08 Tinashe’s French fry rankings 6:12 Child acting, Whoopi Goldberg, and moving to LA 9:11 Life in a girl group without creative control 11:22 Buying a microphone and building a bedroom studio 14:10 Getting signed—and expecting it to be easy 18:40 Join the ATWI Patreon 19:32 Splice: Sounds and Variations 20:39 Early Travis Scott sessions and being taken seriously in the studio 23:29 Recording 200 songs—and trusting the big producer’s opinion26:33 Trusting your gut and knowing when to leave a session 30:43 “2 On” takes off. What happens after the first hit? 36:03 Writing “2 On” in a garage with friends 37:37 Does having a hit teach you how to make one? 39:20 Leaving her label and rebuilding trust in her own ideas 43:29 What releasing music independently actually takes 46:10 Filming her own videos and building her visual world 48:14 How dancing shapes the way she writes songs 50:08 Working with a label again—and finding Ricky Reed 52:11 Getting the call from Calvin Harris 53:52 Why genre doesn’t define her music 55:19 “Nasty” takes off after she stops needing another hit 57:04 Why she won’t write for a TikTok trend 58:43 Charli xcx and finding freedom after early hits 1:00:41 The unexpected remix journey of “No Broke Boys” 1:03:31 Taking the Grammy off her lock screen after seven years 1:05:14 Making POPSTAR—and giving herself time to play 1:05:55 Which POPSTAR song fits every mood? 1:08:19 Claiming the pop star she’s always been 1:13:32 “Just don’t stop”—keep putting your music out 1:14:42 Her advice to young women in music: intuition Credits Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is one of the most unmistakable voices in modern pop — an artist, songwriter and producer who has built a career by making music that sounds like nobody else. Her catalog has passed two billion global streams. She’s played top billing at festivals including Coachella, Lollapalooza and Outside Lands, opened for Olivia Rodrigo, Lorde and Paramore, and collaborated with artists including Nile Rodgers, Beck, Dominic Fike and Sylvan Esso. And The Writer Is... Remi Wolf! In this episode, we get into - The USC training that rebuilt her voice - Waiting tables and taking Craigslist gigs while building a career - The 30-minute session behind “Photo ID,” - Industry lessons for every artist to take notes on... and much more. Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro 0:40 “You can’t teach tone” — how Remi found hers 2:13 USC: “We’re going to beat you down until you feel like you’re nothing” 6:15 Fourteen, busking the Bay Area, and writing songs in Chloe’s kitchen 13:40 “Carousel” — the first song she ever wrote 15:41 A substitute teacher, an apartment, and her first recording 18:05 Ski racer by day, songwriter by night 19:05 Meeting Jared Solomon at 15 — then finding each other again 21:07 Applebee’s on tour — and the road to sobriety 24:04 Rehab, writing Juno sober, and why clarity changed the songs 29:02 “It’s not ready” — why she refused to release music in college 30:22 Six songs in one week — the reunion that started everything 34:24 Restaurant shifts and Craigslist gigs: how she paid to keep making music 39:26 The Sofar show that led to her first manager 42:39 “I had no expectations” — making music before the industry got involved 45:28 35,000 decisions a day — what creative control actually costs 49:22 “You have to start protecting yourself” 51:34 What is the goal? Redefining success 56:51 Her first album rollout sober 59:21 Social media, warped expectations, and screaming into the void 63:22 “Photo ID,” TikTok, and the accident that helped it explode 66:40 “Photo ID” took 30 minutes — and she thought it was horrible 70:15 Her first professional topline session: “I was overcome with social anxiety” 72:11 Why I’m Allergic to Dogs worked during lockdown 74:56 Why Juno is called Juno 78:50 Hayley Williams and singing with another “belt queen” 82:25 Five years of nonstop touring — and finally hitting pause 87:15 “I Won’t Cry” — her favorite song she’s ever written 89:15 “I was sick of the uptempo shit” — writing 130 songs for Mud 90:49 Her first pitch session was for BTS 92:34 Which Mud song fits every mood 94:10 “I’m the happiest I’ve been in my life” Credits Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Today's guest is a musician's musician who co-founded The National, the Grammy-winning band behind Boxer, High Violet and Sleep Well Beast. He co-wrote and produced Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore, including cardigan and willow. folklore won Album of the Year at the Grammys. He worked on The Tortured Poets Department and produced Ed Sheeran's Subtract. He's behind Gracie Abrams' I Love You, I'm Sorry and Noah Kahan's Porch Light. In the last year alone, he's made records with Mumford & Sons, Florence + the Machine, Brandi Carlile, Sam Barber, Kevin Morby and Suki Waterhouse. He's one half of Big Red Machine with Bon Iver's Justin Vernon. And he built Long Pond, the Hudson Valley studio where many of these songs were made. And The Writer Is... Aaron Dessner! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Amazon Music for Songwriters. Your support means the world to us. And SONA — Songwriters of North America. If you write songs, join them. They fight for us. 0:00 Intro 1:00 Cardigan, willow, Porch Light — and eight albums in a year 5:26 Why "I Love You, I'm Sorry" was never the single 7:27 Secretly rooting for the weird song 8:17 When a pop star needs a single right now 10:25 Don't fill the space: how he walks into a session 12:12 Long Pond and "you never make a mistake investing in your creativity" 17:24 Twin brothers and their dad's jazz drums 22:48 "We faked it": how The National got signed 26:48 Playing to no one — then 500 strangers in Michigan 30:05 "Did you lose yourself?" 33:14 When one bandmate starts writing hits for other people 35:38 On stage with Taylor: "You're playing a stadium. It's okay." 37:27 "Hey, it's Taylor": the text in 2020 40:34 The Dropbox folder — and cardigan by 3 a.m. 47:45 The thank-you note that became willow 51:49 Meeting Gracie Abrams — and 2–3 songs a day 57:47 How an instrumentalist became the storyteller's whisperer 1:01:11 Why his albums don't get shelved: finishing Prizefighter 1:04:23 Studio stories: Gracie, Brandi Carlile, Florence, Sam Barber 1:11:40 Noah Kahan arrives burnt out — and Porch Light 1:15:41 Live Q&A: finding the corners, his first key change 1:18:24 Advice for musicians with day jobs 1:20:07 What all the greats have in common Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is a Grammy-winning songwriter, bandleader and activist who has spent four decades inside the most famous name in reggae — but whose real story isn't the inheritance. It's the set of rules underneath it, the ones the family actually lives by, which turn out to have almost nothing to do with music. And The Writer Is... Ziggy Marley! Subscribe to our channel and follow us on socials @andthewriteris Every week we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. Chapters: 0:00 He inherited a legacy and built a voice of his own 0:45 Why reggae heals 4:53 What makes the Marley family so consistent 6:43 Seven kids, and the family business that isn't music 8:36 Why the whole album is tuned to 432 12:32 The one song he left at 440 16:06 What makes this album different from the other fifteen 18:11 Finishing the songs before going into the studio 20:37 Why he wrote "Many Mourn For Bob" 45 years later 24:54 Umbrella or shadow: being a Marley 26:39 The funeral, and the drive to Nine Miles 30:54 NMPA + Splice 33:15 Breaking the four-bar on "Racism" 36:03 "It sounds light, but it's heavy underneath" 38:37 What "Beach in Hawaii" is actually about 43:37 How he found out "Tomorrow People" was a hit 46:14 The Melody Makers, and the line you don't cross 49:15 "Create your own space" 53:45 Advice to the next Marleys 55:27 "You can't just ChatGPT life experience" 59:12 "When the fridge was empty, I was happy" 1:00:26 "I know my value" 1:03:07 "It's always new. Still a kid." Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is an artist and songwriter whose career has taken him from teenage YouTube covers to working with Beyoncé, Tyler, The Creator, Brockhampton, Miley Cyrus and Jack Antonoff. But this conversation is really about something bigger: How to build a career in music without losing yourself along the way. Ryan talks about learning to trust his own taste, being grateful he never had a hit record, protecting what makes an artist special, and refusing to let success, algorithms or other people's expectations define him. We also get into Boy in Jeans, Brockhampton, Tyler the Creator's unexpected DM, writing four songs on Cowboy Carter, the making of "Bruises Off the Peach," and his new album Sweet Fortune. And The Writer Is... Ryan Beatty! Subscribe for more conversations with the artists, songwriters and producers shaping music. Follow us: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors: NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association Splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:36 The Greek, Hollywood Bowl & Pokémon evolutions 3:08 Being made fun of for singing 4:09 “I refuse to continue just being one thing” 8:32 Why being hard to define is freedom 9:52 How Ryan approaches a songwriting session 11:52 Teach people how to treat you 13:43 “I’m grateful I’ve never had a hit record” 14:12 What success feels like vs. what it looks like 20:08 “I didn’t feel smart enough to be a songwriter” 20:55 Boy in Jeans — finding his voice as a songwriter 26:42 Jack Antonoff and an unexpected Broadway placement 27:30 NMPA + Splice 29:19 His advice for artists going viral 31:55 The moment he decided to do it his way 34:06 Brockhampton, Kevin Abstract & finding confidence 37:05 Why Ryan never pitches songs 40:43 Tyler, The Creator’s unexpected DM 42:35 Dreaming of David, touring & burnout 44:52 Making “Bruises Off the Peach” 48:17 Finding his actual singing voice 50:30 Cowboy Carter — four songs, told nobody 54:30 Making Sweet Fortune & chasing timelessness 57:32 How he wants listeners to see themselves in his songs 59:36 Amy Allen, Clairo & making the studio a place of joy 1:04:25 “Doing this is scary for me” Credits Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Edited by Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is the drummer who took punk out of the garage, put it on your radio, then on MTV, then on your body. But his real story isn't the discography. It's what he did with everything that was supposed to end him. From a four-piece kit in Fontana to the center of the album cover, Travis carries three things simultaneously that most musicians never figure out how to hold at once: the craft of writing a drum part as a hook — singing it in his head before his hands ever get there; the conviction that no genre gets to own him, and no one else gets to write his ending; and the contrarian edge to ban Auto-Tune, editing, and drum samples from his own studio at the exact moment the rest of the industry is sprinting toward machine-clean. And The Writer Is... Travis Barker! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris We're giving away 4 pieces of premium recording gear on zoom on August 25th! Join Patreon for details. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro 1:51 Why the documentary sat for nine years 3:18 The producers pitch an ending: "Can you just walk onto a plane?" 4:51 Survivor's guilt: "They wouldn't want me to sit here and not fly again" 6:33 "The doc was dead to me" — and living your life like it's a movie 9:41 "I don't make beats." "Now you do. I need it in two days." 12:23 Beastie Boys, Bad Brains, Buck Owens — refusing the box 15:28 The drums are a hook, not a timekeeper 15:54 "That's not music" — the teacher who wouldn't teach him rock 17:25 How he actually writes a part: "I sing it in my head" 18:21 Learning the whole blink-182 set in an hour 21:29 Trash men in Laguna, and one store that sold their tape 22:52 The untitled album, and the day the process changed 25:57 The lyrics he wrote: "We'll have Halloween on Christmas" 27:15 "I Miss You" — the loop he had to convince them to keep 28:07 "You have to put your ego away to be a drummer who's a songwriter" 35:46 The burn center: "How am I going to play drums?" 36:25 The hand he couldn't feel, and why he told no one 43:20 "Too heavy for blink" — Boxcar Racer, and Mark 56:30 "There was no therapy for what happened" 1:10:19 What drummers should actually practice 1:19:29 AI: "I hate it" — no Auto-Tune, no editing, no samples 1:31:20 "All the Small Things" — the day Tom told him to open the valve 1:33:33 "Where's all the hits?" — the note that made Rock Show and First Date 1:35:15 "One More Time": writing about your own band breaking up Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is an artist most people meet through the bit: the deadpan internet, the cowboy suit, the one-sided war he's been waging with Harry Styles for a year that Harry Styles knows nothing about. So this is the other version of him. A kid in Pittsburgh with a borrowed mic and beats ripped off YouTube, broke and failing out of school, who gets a message that Mac Miller loves a song off his first EP — and uses those three days in LA to convince his parents to let him drop out. It's also one of the more honest conversations we've had about what the industry's upgrades actually cost you. Not the version where getting signed is the happy ending — the version where the nice studio, the engineer recording your vocals, and the A&R in your ear slowly make music that isn't yours. Chuck Timely & The Hourglass is what's on the other side of that: a record about time, made by someone who spent years trying to get his own back. And the only person who ever told him not to make it was his mother. And The Writer Is... Role Model! A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. They are also maybe the only ethical ai-integrated sample library and they pay creators for using their work in the new Variations update and beyond. Chapters 0:00 Intro 2:00 The year-long war with Harry Styles that Harry Styles knows nothing about 2:41 Mac Miller and Odd Future on Vine are why he finally said yes to TikTok 3:33 The message about "Stolen Car" that came while he was failing out of school 15:01 "Did you scrub the internet?" — "Yes. Because I was embarrassed." 16:13 "I was trying to impress a label. I just made s****y music." 24:16 A 16-year-old in Portland, Maine, and an EP made entirely over email 25:44 The labels start calling: "I was a sitting duck" 27:01 The studio trap — how nice rooms take the music out of your hands 28:01 The two EPs he's blocked out: "I don't remember making that music" 28:54 Why he won't pitch songs to other artists 31:06 The 80s synth album they made for two months and scrapped 34:33 The two rules: no synths, no drum machines 35:06 His mom: "There's country in it? Your fans are gonna hate that." 37:39 "Sally," written in the 30 minutes a session ran short 42:09 "But who is Chuck?" — inventing Chuck Timely 47:12 Ross defines a good song: "This will piss off a lot of people" 53:10 What he'd say to Mac Miller 54:44 "Look at That Woman" started as a joke — and why the loose ones win 56:27 The permission Kansas Anymore gave other songwriters Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Today's guest wrote "The Climb." She also wrote "I Drive Your Truck," "Mine Would Be You," "Don't Think Jesus," and "Ain't No Love in Oklahoma." But her real story isn't the hits. It's the ten years before the first one, the five years after it when the phone stopped ringing, and what she figured out in between about how to actually last in this business. From a dropped record deal and years as what she calls a washed-up artist nobody would write with, to Song of the Year, a Grammy nomination, and a run of hits she wrote while raising three kids under three. She carries three things at once that almost no writer figures out how to hold together: a working method she can actually teach, a conviction that this is a calling and not a job, and a refusal to write the safe version of anything. And The Writer Is... Jessi Alexander! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. 0:00 Intro 0:48 Her favorite non-songwriting songwriter trick 1:54 "How do you make unavailable country men emotional?" 5:33 The five songs on her Hall of Fame plaque 11:07 Pool halls and stick shifts: "that color is what I draw from" 12:42 The artist deal that fizzled — "I wasn't the artist type" 13:31 No man's land: "no one took me seriously, I was a washed-up artist" 14:01 The insane story behind writing The Climb: "just another damn day" 20:11 Bud Light, a guitar pull, and a British director 22:07 Being told The Climb would change her life "Sir, that doesnt happen to people like me" 28:08 Nashville still said No 30:38 Getting men to sing: long notes and the falsetto flip 31:44 "What part of their tool belt have they not used?" 34:32 The professor who told her to quit school 36:18 Her album, the mergers, and Redneck Woman 40:27 New mom: "they'll just put someone else in my spot" 45:30 Good mom or good at work — never both 46:16 2015 to 2020: "the water just turned off" 48:23 Advice for the writer whose phone stopped ringing 50:24 The song that rang every bell 57:21 Concept-first or melody-first: "I'm the director" 61:16 Songwriters own it. Screenwriters sell it. 64:16 Imposter syndrome and the Billy Strings answer 65:24 What makes Morgan Wallen great 69:46 "I don't like to not know where all the bodies are buried" 71:43 I Drive Your Truck (Crazy story) 74:37 Her granddad's truck in the driveway 75:44 "Call in the third. Call in the fourth. Call in the 10th." 76:46 No #1 party until they found him 80:36 The truck-song traffic jam they were worried sick about 85:38 "Keep your head down." Still the only answer. Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Today's guest is a songwriter four albums deep, with a song that's been picking up new listeners for nine years and Mick Fleetwood playing on her latest record. But her real story isn't any of that. From weekend stage camps in West London to opening Wembley for Taylor Swift five months after giving birth, she spent a decade releasing roughly one song a year into near silence. What kept her going wasn't a plan — it was a pair of collaborators who got nothing back for years and got up and made something every day anyway. This is an honest conversation about what a long stretch of nobody listening actually feels like, and what happens when the proof finally shows up on a timeline you didn't choose. And The Writer Is... Suki Waterhouse! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. They've developed a Sounds plugin that allows creators to actually get paid for derivatively generated work from their art, and they have paid out $100M+ to artists already since inception. Chapters: 0:00 Intro 0:46 How's being a parent and doing music? 1:18 "Being a parent is only hard for good parents" 2:49 "The girl with the guitar" — how her daughter describes her job 4:30 Test-driving album demos on a toddler in her "no" phase 12:44 Somewhere Over the Rainbow — and losing to the girl who sang All Saints 14:38 The voice teacher who told her she was too skinny to sing 15:58 "I was angry. I had this huge fire in me." 16:42 The friend group that turned on her: "f**k this school, f**k these people" 26:45 "You walk through open doors" — model, actor, musician 28:56 "Brutally," 2016, and ten years of making things nobody heard 31:01 Advice to a young female artist: learn to produce, even basically 32:56 "I went hunting for my f*****g tribe. And I found them." 35:54 Amy Winehouse at the pub, The Libertines, and a London scene that's gone 38:12 Backstage at a Jake Bugg show — meeting Natalie and Jules at eighteen 39:23 "They got zero back for years and years and years" 42:45 Extreme ADHD, a giant sitar, and a fight over a song 46:26 December 7th: flying to London for a song that didn't exist yet 47:16 The pact: "if we're not writing something brilliant, we're not carrying it on" 47:28 The worst audition of her life, in the dark 48:09 A Wurlitzer, a Mellotron, and the song that opens the album 1:01:39 "Good Looking" — top ten on TikTok, written nine years ago 1:05:53 Covid, Daisy Jones, and deciding to just make the record 1:06:32 Every label said no except Sub Pop 1:08:40 "It's nothing about what happens in the first week" 1:10:16 "Dangerous Woman" and a song that gains meaning over time 1:11:38 Daisy Jones: "my name wasn't on the list and I was f*****g pissed" 1:16:24 "You're more envious of the check than the song" 1:26:14 What makes a good song — Beck, Elliott Smith, and roughness 1:29:26 Red Rocks with no ear monitors: "I was in insane debt" 1:32:04 Opening for Taylor Swift at Wembley 1:34:17 Hayley Williams: "this one's for Mr. Waterhouse" 1:37:02 A baby in March, a record in September 1:39:44 "When everyone goes a bit red — that's when you keep it in the song" 1:40:35 What to play driving at night, heartbroken, walking through London Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.