Advertise on podcast: Build Your SaaS

Justin and Jon reconnect after a two-year podcasting hiatus. What's happened since their last episode? Lots! They talk about big changes in their personal lives, and then move on to how they're thinking about Transistor as a business. These discuss burnout and motivation, the evolution of the podcasting industry, the pressure of being a leader, and the possibility of taking a sabbatical. The Transistor team is off to Banff for their annual retreat! Quote: "Working hard does not lead to burnout, but the lack of hope leads to burnout. So if you're working really really hard for something that you don't believe will pay off, it's super easy to lose motivation. And that has happened to me in the past! But! If you believe that the thing you're working on will have a payoff, the amount of work almost doesn’t matter." – Aaron FrancisLinks: The last episode Jon and Justin recorded togetherAaron Francis' newsletter"Everything you've been told about burnout is wrong."Matt Wensing's tweetHave feedback on this episode? 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​🦋 Reply on Bluesky 📺 Watch this episode on YouTube. Timestamps: (00:00) - Who remembers how to do this anyway? (00:30) - Where has Jon been for the last 2 years? (08:56) - What's Justin been up to? (11:36) - Maybe there's more to burnout than we think (24:40) - Should we build something else as a backup? (27:31) - What need to be true for you to be happier? (33:38) - Remote work kind of sucks (39:06) - Brainstorming more ideas around connecting better (42:32) - What about sabbaticals? (51:03) - Thank you to our Patreon supporters Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Harris Kenny was a long-time listener of the podcast, and dreamed about building his own software product. After multiple attempts, over 5 years, he finally did it. How? He shares his experiences transitioning from a corporate job to entrepreneurship. He also discusses the challenges of user engagement, the exploration of various SaaS ideas, and the importance of foundational work in entrepreneurship. Links: Harris Kenny on LinkedinOutboundSync - Integrate outbound campaigns in HubSpot and SalesforceIntroCRM (Archived) - Access BlockedHow Loom Found PULL - Growth Strategy Case StudyFollow Justin on BlueskyHave feedback on this episode? 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​🦋 Reply on BlueskyTimestamps: (00:09) - I did it! I build my saas! (02:59) - Why did Harris quit his job? (11:03) - When you don't have a boss, do you have the drive to go get work? (15:45) - How did you hear about saas businesses? (27:02) - Recognizing a need and building something for it (34:44) - So many opportunities in inventory software (41:03) - The difficulty of getting people to just log in (49:18) - The saas that worked (01:01:01) - Where are you getting new customers from? (01:06:47) - Using Tinyseed as a bridge (01:11:02) - Going over the top on support is a key (01:24:04) - Showing results helps agencies show value Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Bootstrapping a business is like getting a plane to lift off the ground. But what do you do once the plane is in the air? Dave Giunta and Justin Jackson recorded a recent phone call about maintaining motivation after the initial startup phase. How does founder energy shift once you've achieved your early goals? Dave prods Justin to find new sources of motivation – whether through mentoring junior team members, connecting with customers in fresh ways, or knowing when it's time to explore new horizons. They also discuss why Dave left Home Chef (after 8 years) and what he's doing next. Links: Follow Dave on BlueskyConnect with Dave on LinkedInFollow Justin on BlueskyHave feedback on this episode? 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​🦋 Reply on BlueskyTimestamps: 00:00:17 - Giuuuuuunta00:01:15 - Chatting in Guatemala: maintaining motivation, remote work, career transitions00:02:12 - Motivation in early vs late stage startups00:06:00 - Challenges with maintaining motivation once the business is established00:15:35 - Working with different team member motivations00:26:42 - Importance of understanding individual team members00:29:20 - Remote work advantages and challenges00:35:35 - Working with junior team members and mentorship00:54:00 - Why Dave left Home Chef after 8+ years00:57:00 - Discussion of career transitions and giving yourself space to explore01:02:20 - Future plans and exploration after leaving long-term roleThanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

How do founders of small bootstrapped companies hire new employees? Adam Wathan got over 1600 people who applied for two new roles at Tailwind Labs (a small team of six people). They ended up hiring two people, but neither of them actually applied. This wasn't how Adam expected (or hoped) this process would go. There were lots of surprising takeaways and lessons learned from the whole experience. "If you figure we spend 5 minutes on every single application, that was like 133 hours straight reading applications. Processing these job applications was basically my full time job for 2 months." – Adam WathanLinks: Hackers Inc podcastTailwind job opening announcementDesign Engineer job postingStaff Software Engineer job postingReddit: 11 months of job searching visualizedHave feedback on this episode? 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​🐦 Reply on TwitterTimestamps: (03:40) - What's the size of Transistor and when did you last hire? (05:24) - How did you meet or find your employees? (07:12) - Adam's process for hiring (12:44) - The energy required to process applications (17:32) - What got people in to the 100 list? (21:03) - Did Adam get any videos in applications? (24:49) - Previous employment was a good indicator (30:16) - Painting a picture of what the position looks like (32:02) - The kinds of people who applied (34:52) - How did the application process work out? (38:52) - The kinds of questions we asked applicants (42:25) - Does a great conversation impact a hiring decision or not? (49:24) - Does having the position open in public help? (51:36) - How Adam was connected to the people they hired (59:31) - The importance of conference conversations (01:02:20) - Finding ways to share your work in public (01:06:11) - The process does work... just not this time (01:12:30) - Could I ever get comfortable with a 70% success rate? (01:20:53) - Bringing in someone you knew vs a fan (01:26:45) - Keeping a tab in different areas to pull from Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A panel discussion on 37signals' first ONCE product, the launch of Campfire ("pay for it once, install it, and run it on your own server"). Ian Landsman, Tyler Tringas, and Justin Jackson share what they expected to happen before the launch, what did happen, and what it means for indie hackers and bootstrappers who want to launch SaaS companies. Is this the end of SaaS? Links: Once landing pageCampfire sales pageDHH's tweet: "ONCE/Campfire hasn't even been for sale for a week, but we've already sold more than quarter of a million dollars."Tyler Tringas's videoI want to hear your thoughts: If you listen to the episode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts: Can you think of a low-price, pay-once, on-prem software product that's succeeded? (The only one I could think of was ​Statamic CMS​)Do you think a different Once product might have made more sales? What kinds of products do you think might work?Did you buy Campfire? What did you buy it for? Are you using it as a chat tool for your company?Other thoughts on our discussion.👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​ 🐦 Reply on Twitter Timestamps: (00:00:00) - "I appreciate that 37signals exists."(00:01:58) - 37signals' influence in the bootstrapped startup space(00:03:58) - What did we expect from the Campfire/Once launch?(00:06:23) - DHH's tweet on Campfire sales – is that what we expected?(00:09:49) - The Once model, philosophy, and Campfire's history(00:17:21) - Misconceptions about what IT Managers want(00:19:49) - How Campfire was marketed and positioned(00:26:01) - Basecamp's PR, virality, and audience (00:28:29) - Can you do customer research to validate demand?(00:32:01) - The volume of sales as a success metric(00:33:33) - The Potential for Campfire's expansion(00:37:37) - Distribution opportunities with hosting providers00:39:31) - The intuition behind HEY Email's success(00:43:42) - The Value of an Audience and Customer Overlap(00:45:12) - The Compounding Advantage of Longevity(00:49:54) - ScorecardThanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Fast Company called Acquired "the #1 tech podcast sensation." I've been a huge fan of the show for years. So, I was surprised when they contacted me and wanted to switch to Transistor for podcast hosting! Since switching, they've had a breakout year. Their clips started showing up everywhere on my social media feed; they had chart-topping episodes on Nintendo, Nike, and Costco, and they interviewed the CEOs of NVIDIA, Uber, and Charlie Munger.  And this was the year that Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal (the co-hosts) both went full-time on the podcast. Podcasting is now their job. With all of that activity, I thought Build your SaaS listeners would be interested in hearing my interview with David about their entire story: How they got started, how they built momentum over time,how they were able to double their audience every single year since 2015, And how that momentum ended up Attracting an incredibly valuable audience that they've now monetized through sponsorships. This interview has so much that podcasters, creators, and indie entrepreneurs will find super helpful and inspirational. 🔥 Key moments: (0:00:00) – A breakout year for Acquired(0:01:45) – What is the Acquired podcast about?(0:02:40) – How the Acquired podcast got started (origin story)(0:07:23) – How Ben and David's co-hosting relationship works(0:09:00) – The 3 big goals that made them want to start Acquired(0:11:38) – How did listeners respond to the first episodes?(0:14:55) – The best reason to start a podcast(0:15:30) – The secret to how Acquired attracts new listeners(0:18:13) – How they got featured in Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Pocket Casts, and Spotify(0:24:18) – How they got their first podcast sponsors (and why it wasn't about making money)(0:27:58) – Why they give their sponsors a white glove, 11-star experience(0:34:13) – How to get more word-of-mouth referrals for your podcast(0:37:00) – Acquired's unconventional approach to podcast ads(0:41:54) – How the Acquired podcast's growth machine works(0:48:05) – Why their NVIDIA podcast episode went viral(0:50:48) – Why they switched from Libsyn to Transistor for podcast hosting(0:57:18) – The rise of the "independent, boutique podcaster."(1:02:27) – "The future of podcasting doesn't belong to Gimlet, NYT, NPR..."(1:06:22) – David Rosenthal's advice to aspiring podcastersThanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

The whole team is on the show! Jon, Helen, Jason, Josh, and Justin are on the mics to discuss our recent team retreat to Nashville, Tennessee. If you're wondering what a retreat looks like for a remote team, you'll get a lot out of this episode. We also reveal some of our exploits in Music City: "Going to a Tiki Bar is usually a mistake."Highlights (00:10) - Welcome (01:10) - Highlights of our retreat in Nashville (12:55) - It's not easy to get everyone together (20:26) - Our schedule for the retreat (26:24) - Electrolytes are a good idea (31:49) - Things to improve or tips for other teams "For 51 weeks, our small team works efficiently. Our team retreat week is a culmination of celebrations, milestones, birthdays, and holidays we might have missed. It's special to condense these moments into one week and see everyone in person to celebrate our achievements from the previous year." – HelenLinks: Photos from our trip to Nashville. PhotoWalk Nashville service.SurfOffice Location Finder: "Discover the optimal location to meet with your remote team. Results are sorted by average travel time per person, number of stopovers, and overall price."How to plan a team retreat: Planning a retreat can be a daunting task, so we wanted to share our learnings in the hopes that it’ll be helpful for other remote teams out there.Takeaways: The city you choose for your retreat will significantly influence the team's productivity and leisure activities.Be intentional and set aside time for planning and product discussions.A retreat is a great time for a remote team to celebrate milestones and achievements.Have a balance between work activities and fun activities.Simple activities like games or cards can be as fulfilling as fancy events. Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Justin catches up with his old internet friend Paul Jarvis. Today, Paul co-founded Fathom Analytics with Jack Ellis: a simple alternative to Google Analytics. Paul is also the author of the book "Company of One," which has influenced a whole generation of indie entrepreneurs (and has been reviewed by Cal Newport, Chris Guillebeau, Ben Chestnut, Tiago Forte, and more). Previously, Justin and Paul did a weekly mastermind, where they supported and encouraged each other around our indie businesses. They decided to do a catch-up call and recorded it so you could listen in. 👍 Highlights: (00:10) - Intro (02:15) - Being off the internet (03:53) - What's a typical day for Paul? (06:16) - Looking back at our Mastermind call (08:03) - There's no beginning and no end (10:31) - Things that are out of your control affect your business (13:03) - Does Justin's surfing metaphor make sense to a surfer? (16:06) - How would you start an indie business in 2023? (22:00) - You've got to get in motion (25:03) - Using products in your category for a long time (27:48) - Is there still any room in Saas? (31:51) - The act of making the bet (38:40) - Is freelancing still viable in 2023? (42:50) - Company design is lifestyle design (44:55) - Worrying about being stagnant (47:15) - How do you handle customer feature requests? (52:03) - It's ok to be late to a shift in the market (58:19) - Caring is an indie advantage (01:05:00) - Collaboration is what gets us anywhere 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! Links:Fathom Analytics (get $10 off)Book: Company of OneArticle: How to Start a MastermindWayback Machine: Mint AnalyticsArticle: Why we moved from courses to SaaSSelf-Publishing Hangout: Paul Jarvis, Nathan Barry, Sacha Greif, Justin Jackson Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Tim reached out after the Aaron Francis episode: "I wanted to pitch you on the idea of coming on the podcast and sharing my journey of building side projects for the last decade while raising a family. I can also share the guardrails I put in place before finally going full-time on T.LY." Highlights: (00:12) - Welcome (01:13) - Who is Tim Leland? (03:20) - What guardrails did you put in place? (06:24) - What's the sales funnel? (08:13) - Family as a motivator (16:21) - How would you describe your effort during this process? (20:06) - What about family boundaries? (23:25) - How do you manage your thoughts? (31:15) - How have you been able to manage the effort level? (34:44) - The pressure of cutting the cord from your job (38:16) - What's it been like being full time on t.ly? (39:59) - What's your SEO magic touch? Links:Tim's startup: T.LYTim's TwitterTim's blog: tools for marketersThanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

This week Jon and Justin are joined by Marcella Chamorro. Previously, she worked in startup marketing but has recently transitioned to coaching founders and teams. We discussed how startup founders and their team members can realize their full potential. Here are some highlights: (00:24) - Introducing Marcella (03:03) - How do you define your coaching? (05:10) - What do you see with rising stars? (09:37) - Do you navigate team dynamics or individual work? (14:40) - Any advice for founder's stress (23:22) - Personal lives do come to work (32:44) - The ability to have difficult conversations (47:05) - A lot of value in speaking to someone who's not you (50:26) - How can people reach out Marcella? Quote:"I think people who choose to do coaching want to be really good at what they do and they want to have a really good life. They are looking to optimize their time on planet Earth."  – MarcellaLinks: Subscribe to Marcella's newsletterMarcella’s coaching websiteCheck out Marcella's articlesMarcella on LinkedInMarcella on Twitter Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this podcast episode, Michele Hansen (Geocodio) gives us an update on Section 174 and provides her take on "bootstrapping with kids." Michele explains you can be a part of the Small Software Business Alliance, and fight Section 174. If you're in the USA, please contact Congress! In the second half of the episode, Justin and Michele talk about the challenges of balancing starting a business while you have young kids. For more on this topic, check out the last episode with Aaron Francis. For more context on Section 174, check out our previous episode with Michele. (00:12) - Welcome (01:39) - Quick refresher on section 174 (05:37) - Updates since last episode (09:04) - You can still help raise awareness (13:58) - What's happening next? (17:30) - How does this work on the accounting side? (20:19) - Anything else people can do? (22:36) - What advice do you give to people with families wanting to start a business? (26:25) - Did you try a few things on the side? (28:46) - Definition of success at the start (31:01) - Developing a business while raising a baby (34:54) - Survivorship bias in stories from new parents (37:34) - What should you consider when starting a business? (45:21) - Avoid magical thinking (51:25) - Some things are hard to think about until you experience them Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode, Justin speaks with Aaron Francis about being a new parent and trying to bootstrap a startup. Aaron argued the other side of Justin's tweet thread: "Wait until your kids are older to start a company." Aaron is well-positioned to talk about this because he has twins and is also bootstrapping Hammerstone with his co-founder Colleen. The whole conversation is a nuanced take on the topic and full of important insights, especially on: the risks involved (especially if you're not working a full-time job)the kind of foundation (mentally, financially, emotionally, relationally) you need to be able to take the riskHighlights from this episode: (00:12) - Welcome Aaron (01:05) - Topic introduction (02:17) - What's Aaron's story? (05:23) - What is a maximum effort era? (10:51) - What are you willing to sacrifice? (15:12) - What's your daily routine like? (17:25) - Context matters in all of this (27:56) - Are you sacrificing social connections? (30:48) - Blind spots can affect you on your journey (33:18) - Pain vs risk (37:38) - Being on the same page as your partner (41:42) - Going to therapy sooner (43:46) - Building a good foundation (48:46) - Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats (53:49) - Sometimes it's easier to try getting a better job (01:02:37) - Where can people reach Aaron? Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon and Justin welcome Joshua Anderton to the Transistor team! Josh is an amazingly talented full-stack web developer (Laravel, Rails, Tailwind CSS, Alpine, and more!) He's been helping us as a part-time contractor since Oct 2022, and we're excited to have him on board full-time! In this episode, we discuss why we hired another person and how we think about hiring at Transistor. (00:28) - 150! (01:27) - Trials into paid customers (09:17) - Hiring philosophy (27:40) - Hiring Josh (31:34) - Hiring people you know (40:30) - Product updates (43:49) - Patreon supporter thanks Links:Joshua's personal siteJoshua's podcast: Getting to RamenJason Cohen's articleAcquired.fm is now on Transistor! Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Michele Hansen (co-founder of Geocodio) is raising the alarm about Section 174. This legislation could dramatically increase your tax bill this year if you're a small software company in the USA. Michele is organizing a response through the Small Software Business Alliance. 👉 ACT NOW: Sign up for Michele's listUS citizens: tweet and call your Senators today. They need to know that this is a small business issue and that small businesses in their state are hurt by Section 174.Share the ssballiance.org URL with your founder friends.In this episode: (01:37) - What is section 174? (04:37) - What's the benefit to the government for this change? (08:58) - Section 174 is bad for every company that builds software (11:23) - Disclaimer: We're not tax accountants (12:16) - What is the SSB Alliance? (14:00) - Small businesses are the cute puppies of the policy world (22:00) - A practical example (25:25) - This is going to impact small software businesses (28:31) - What can we do? Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon's back from his first real vacation in years. In this episode, we discuss how we've been removing inactive accounts on Transistor, SVB, Section 174, Revin is shutting down their Merchant of Record service, SaaS sales tax compliance: (00:37) - Jon in vacation mode (02:30) - Kicking off inactive accounts (04:30) - Silicon Valley Bank (06:06) - What is Mercury bank? (13:16) - Section 174 in the USA (19:05) - Sales tax compliance update (25:56) - What could we do? (32:13) - Patreon integration update (34:57) - MyPodStudios (36:33) - Patreon Thanks Links:Matt Levin's excellent summary of the Silicon Valley Bank runIan Landsman: "This is why I don't use startup-friendly banks (Mercury, etc)"Section 174: join ssballiance.orgRevin has shut down its Merchant of Record serviceFlurly (another Merchant of Record) was shut down by Stripe From the Revin email: “The most relevant reason [we are closing] is that the Merchant of Record model is too risky for both sellers and the MOR operator. Sellers bear the risk of platform shutdown (as seen in the example of Flurly & Stripe), and the MOR operator could potentially become involved in illicit or illegal activities quickly, which could lead to all sorts of problems.Furthermore, it became increasingly clear that the Merchant of Record model primarily appeals to small-scale sellers or businesses with questionable and high-risk business models. This presents a significant challenge as we strive to move up the market. The recent change in Stripe's risk behavior has caused us to experience issues with keeping Stripe accounts live.” Thanks to our monthly supporters Rewardful.com Greg Park Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co Bill Condo (@mavrck) Ward from MemberSpace.com Evandro Sasse Austin Loveless Michael Sitver Colin Gray Dave Giunta 🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.📺 Learn how to start your own podcast! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★