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The SEO Podcast: Page 2 Podcast

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Rating
★★★★★
5
from
16 reviews
This podcast has
141 episodes
Language
English
Explicit
Yes
Date created
2018/10/18
Latest episode
2026/10/25
Average duration
54 min.
Release period
7 days

Description

The Page 2 Podcast is an interview show about SEO, AEO, and GEO, hosted by Jon Clark and Joe DeVita. The format is a long-form conversation with the practitioners doing the work: agency founders, in-house SEO leads, technical specialists, and builders of AI visibility tools. We get into the tests guests ran and what they found, how they track brand visibility in ChatGPT, Gemini, and Google's AI Overviews, what's changing in local and technical SEO, and how they're restructuring teams and client work as search changes. Past guests include Rand Fishkin, Mike King, Lily Ray and Darren Shaw.

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Check latest episodes from The SEO Podcast: Page 2 Podcast podcast


GEO vs. SEO: What Actually Works in AI Search? 🤖 | Ross Hudgens
2026/10/25
https://page2pod.com - Generative engine optimization (GEO) runs on off-site signals: reviews, Reddit, publishers and best-of lists. Ross Hudgens explains.Ross Hudgens, Founder & CEO of Siege Media and author of the new Wiley book Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO, returns to Page 2 seven years after his season one appearance. So what's actually new about GEO? Ross's answer: for national brands, off-site reviews and third-party mentions now feed AI answers directly, the same way Google and Yelp reviews have always shaped local search.Jon Clark and Joe DeVita dig into how that shift is forcing Siege to rebuild its own agency. Siege is doing far less top-of-funnel content, running digital PR as a year-long relationship program instead of a trial, and adding reputation management, influencer, affiliate and paid Reddit. Ross also explains why the SEO team may not be able to own GEO on its own, and what a GEO-first organization looks like.📘 In This Episode • What's actually different about generative engine optimization vs. SEO? • Why the digital PR trial is over: per-client media lists and quarterly campaigns • Getting PR teams on board before a digital PR contract is signed • The data flywheel and "credibility nuggets" for refreshing existing content • "Best for a segment" vs. "best overall" in best-of listicles and AI answers • Paid Reddit, reputation management and customer service as GEO channels • How should a brand structure a GEO-first team?A candid look at what it takes to reinvent an agency, and a brand's search strategy, while you're still running it.🔔 Subscribe for more practitioner conversations on SEO, AEO and GEO. 💬 Does your brand call itself "best overall," or best for a specific segment? Tell us in the comments.• Ross Hudgens on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosshudgens/ • Siege Media → https://www.siegemedia.com • Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO → https://link.amazon/B05IK55qm • Content Conversation (Ross's show) on YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/c/SiegeMedia • Discuss this episode on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/r/page2podcast 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned • BuzzStream (Ross's outreach interview) → https://www.buzzstream.com/blog/ross-hudgens-podcast/ • Comparison Pages → https://www.siegemedia.com/research/versus-pages • The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz (audiobook) → https://link.amazon/B0hzovYPU • Where AI Gets Its Buying Advice BOFU Data Study → https://www.siegemedia.com/research/ai-buying-advice
🚨 Is Google Breaking SEO? Semrush’s Marcus Tober on AI Search & Rank Tracking
2026/10/19
https://page2pod.com - How do brands improve AI visibility when the data behind search is getting harder to trust? Marcus Tober, SVP of Enterprise Solutions at Semrush and founder of Searchmetrics, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita to unpack what's breaking in search measurement and what still works. Marcus's short answer on AI visibility: describe your business clearly and neutrally on your own site, using well-structured headlines and paragraphs that AI can lift as passages. He shares how a ~30-year category leader with top SEO visibility lagged in AI search until it added plain homepage copy about what it does. Its visibility jumped almost immediately. He also explains why he believes Google's num=100 removal and go-to redirects are really about AI agents. He estimates their request volume at 1,000x+ what SEO scrapers ever sent. For Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) practitioners, the conversation also covers log files as a leading indicator for dark AI traffic, the impression inflation hitting Search Console, ChatGPT referral traffic doubling for many brands from August into October, and the first AI spam policy from Anthropic. 📡 In This Episode Why rank tracking got harder after num=100 and go-to redirectsAre AI agents inflating Search Console impressions?Mirroring logged-out ChatGPT results, and why prompts aren't keywordsMeasuring AI search ROI as ChatGPT becomes a destinationLog file analysis for AI user bots and dark trafficHow should brands structure content for AI citations?Neutral language vs. superlatives as an AI trust signal A rare inside look at search data from someone who has spent two decades collecting it. 🔔 Subscribe for weekly conversations with the practitioners shaping SEO, AEO, and GEO → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1💬 Have you checked your log files for AI user bots yet? Tell us what you found in the comments. Connect with Marcus Tober ✅ Marcus Tober on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcustober ✅ Marcus Tober on X → https://x.com/marcustober ✅ Marcus Tober's Personal Website → https://marcustober.com Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media, a Full-Service AEO Agency → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Reddit → hhttps://www.reddit.com/r/page2podcast/ Follow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned Semrush (Core + Enterprise, AI Toolkit) → https://www.semrush.comSemrush Enterprise Query fan-out analysis → https://www.semrush.com/news/442193-query-fan-out-analysis-comes-to-semrush-enterprise-ai-optimization-revealing-the-search-signals-behind-ai-responses/Semrush Enterprise Log File Analysis → https://www.semrush.com/news/445236-semrush-enterprise-adds-log-file-analysis-to-site-intelligence-and-ai-optimization/Semrush Spotlight → https://lnkd.in/p/gUaAkXMqNozzle's Poised SERP Report → https://nozzle.io/research/poisoned-google-serps/
🚀 Affiliate Marketing in the Age of AI Search with Adam Riemer
2026/10/11
https://page2pod.com - Affiliate marketing is turning into an AI visibility channel, and Adam Riemer argues most brands are paying the wrong partners for it.Adam Riemer, founder and CEO of Adam Riemer Marketing and a Search Engine Journal "Ask an SEO" columnist, has spent more than 20 years working where affiliate marketing and SEO overlap. His argument: AI answers are increasingly personalized to the individual user, so the source that shapes a recommendation is the author, creator, or community your specific buyer already trusts, not simply the biggest publication. Two people with the same age, income, and magazine subscriptions can still follow completely different writers.So how should brands pay for Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) visibility through partners? Adam's short answer: if a partner reaches your audience and can drive revenue, pay a flat media fee plus commission, and never purge a dormant affiliate that AI assistants keep surfacing. Jon Clark and Joe DeVita also get into affiliate tracking without cookies, valuing YouTube versus TikTok creators, and where SEO and affiliate teams clash.🍷 In This Episode - Why audience-matched authors may matter more than big publications in personalized AI answers - How should you pay affiliates who influence AI answers but never send a click? - Server-side tracking, app conversions, and click-free podcast attribution - YouTube vs. TikTok creators: long-term content investment vs. short-term sales burst - Re-engaging dormant affiliates that LLMs keep citing - Affiliate subnetworks, brand-term bidding, and the program governance most brands skip - Do affiliate links count as backlinks?A practical look at where affiliate marketing, SEO, and AI search collide, from someone who works hands-on in all three. 💬 Has an affiliate or niche creator ever shown up for your brand in ChatGPT or AI Overviews? How did you find out? Tell us in the comments. 🔗 Adam Riemer on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-riemer-9623732/🔗 Adam Riemer Marketing → https://adamriemer.me🔗 Adam's "Ask an SEO" column on Search Engine Journal → https://www.searchenginejournal.com/author/adam-riemer/ ####Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media, a full-service AEO agency → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.comFollow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/r/page2podcast/Follow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - How Can Affiliate Managers And SEOs Stay Relevant In The AI Era? → https://www.searchenginejournal.com/ask-an-seo-3-actionable-ways-affiliate-managers-seos-can-keep-relevant/573607/ - Affiliate Links are Backlinks for SEO, But Bad Ones → https://www.linkedin.com/posts/adam-riemer-9623732_affiliatemarketing-seo-marketing-share-7132742387948228609-PQ1q/ - A 6-Step, Money-Making, AI Content Strategy for Affiliates → https://www.adamriemer.me/affiliate-marketing/a-6-step-money-making-ai-content-strategy-for-affiliates/ - Affiliate Marketing Has Evolved from Pay on Performance → https://www.adamriemer.me/affiliate-marketing/affiliate-marketing-evolved-pay-on-performance/ - Your Best Selling Product is Not Based on the Number of Sales → https://www.adamriemer.me/other/your-best-selling-product-is-not-based-on-the-number-of-sales/
What AI Bots See When They Don't Render JavaScript (JS) 👀 with Tory Gray
2026/10/04
https://page2pod.com - Agentic readiness starts with a business decision, not a code change: what should AI agents be able to access and do on your site? Tory Gray, CEO of The Gray Dot Company, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita to explain why the technical side of agent readiness is the easy part. The standards exist; the hard part is imagining how people will actually use agents and choosing which actions to enable (purchasing, API workflows, account tasks) and which to block. She also warns against treating JavaScript as a wall: most AI bots don't render, but agents can render when a user pays for it, or simply take a screenshot. Tory brings a product manager's lens to technical SEO, Answer Engine Optimization (AEO), and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). She breaks down why pagination and infinite scroll still go wrong, the two-tier test for programmatic SEO, and how to build user-generated content systems so your site becomes the Reddit of your niche instead of just posting on it. ⚙️ In This Episode - What should AI agents be allowed to do on your website? - Can JavaScript keep AI crawlers out, and should you rely on it? - Pagination and infinite scroll: engagement KPIs vs. conversion KPIs - The two-tier programmatic SEO test: real user demand, then a moat - Building UGC systems with automated indexing rules and human review - Google's agentic guidance: accessibility tree, layout shift, and screenshots - Title, canonical, and meta robots tags that move out of the head after rendering A practical look at how websites are changing as agents become a third audience alongside people and search engines. 🔔 Subscribe for weekly conversations with the practitioners shaping SEO, AEO, and GEO → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1 💬 Has your team decided what AI agents should be allowed to do on your site, or is it still undecided? Tell us in the comments. Connect with Tory Gray ✅ The Gray Dot Company → https://thegray.company ✅ Tory Gray on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/torygray/ #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media, a Full-Service → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - AI Difference Engine (Chrome extension) → https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/eabfgiogeabkaekjkeocambpbgnjmfkk - Rendering Difference Engine (Chrome extension) → https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/rendering-difference-engi/dhcimplbimmmpjpiolnmdjdchnknmend - The Gray Dot Company's user-generated content guide → https://thegray.company/blog/user-generated-content-seo - Sitebulb Webinar: How to Build an AI Skill for Your SEO Workflow → https://sitebulb.com/resources/guides/webinar-how-to-build-an-ai-skill-for-your-seo-workflow/ - Pagination SEO Best Practices → https://thegray.company/blog/pagination-seo-guide
Local SEO Experiments That Actually Worked: Maps, AI, Reddit & Reviews 🧪 with Andrew Shotland
2026/09/27
https://page2pod.com - Local SEO for AI search: Andrew Shotland shares the experiments that moved Map Pack, Google AI, and ChatGPT visibility. Andrew Shotland, founder and CEO of Local SEO Guide, has spent nearly 20 years doing local SEO for everyone from Walmart to single-location businesses. His short answer on what drives local visibility now is proximity, engagement, and reviews. In a Local Falcon study of roughly seven million local queries, a business's first 200 reviews did most of the ranking work across local packs, Google AI, and ChatGPT. After that point, additional reviews mainly expanded the radius where the business ranks. Andrew also walks through the tests behind his thinking. He had people request driving directions to a business to see if map rankings moved. He recommends opening a legitimate second location instead of producing more content. He explains how review language maps to LLM conversation paths, which is where local SEO meets Answer Engine Optimization (AEO). And he describes a Reddit brand-mention test where AI visibility spiked, then disappeared as soon as the posting stopped. 📍 In This Episode Can driving-direction requests move Map Pack rankings?Why a legitimate second location can beat months of content workLocal Services Ads (LSAs): service areas, lead quality, and rising CPCsApple Maps ads: 25-character copy, images as copy, and tracking workaroundsHow many Google reviews do you need to rank?Review text, LLM conversation paths, and citation syndicationThe Reddit brand-mention experiment and AI visibilityA practitioner's look at which local SEO tactics hold up once AI systems are answering the "near me" question. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes with the practitioners actually doing the work → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1 💬 How many reviews does the top-ranked business in your market have? Did reaching that number move your rankings? Tell us in the comments. Follow Andrew Shotland ✅ Andrew Shotland / Local SEO Guide → https://www.localseoguide.com ✅ Andrew Shotland on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/localseoguide/ 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned 🔗 Andrew's Apple Maps ads blog post → https://www.localseoguide.com/everything-i-know-about-apple-maps-ads-so-far/ 🔗 Local SEO Guide Reddit study → https://sitebulb.com/resources/guides/reddit-is-no-longer-just-a-nerd-forum-its-an-ai-visibility-lever/ 🔗 How Reviews Influence AI Overviews → https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.localseoguide.com/how-reviews-influence-ai-overviews-and-local-rankings/ 🔗 Yext Local Data Study → https://www.localseoguide.com/yext-research-shares-a-few-billion-data-points-with-seos/ Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media a Full-Service AEO Agency → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark
Local SEO in AI Search: What Actually Works 🔍 with Greg Gifford
2026/09/21
https://page2pod.com - Your primary Google Business Profile category is the most powerful local ranking signal you control, and most businesses pick the wrong one. Greg Gifford, Chief Strategy Officer at SearchLab, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita to separate what's actually changing in local search from the noise. His position: SEO isn't being replaced, but the foundations now feed a second consumer. AI models pull from the same local directories, reviews, and off-site brand signals that local SEO has always depended on — Yext research found 86% of AI citations for local businesses come from local SEO directory sites — which makes accuracy and off-site presence more valuable, not less. Greg also gets into why SearchLab reorganized its SEO team around specialists instead of generalists, why customer service became a retention lever, and why AI search is probabilistic rather than deterministic — so the recommendation matters more than the citation link everyone's tracking. Plus a lot of automotive: OEM content pushdowns, the approved vendor program, and why dealerships consistently misunderstand service and parts search. 📍 In This Episode - Why SearchLab moved from SEO generalists to specialist teams — and how they ran the re-org without losing people - Is your primary Google Business Profile category costing you map pack visibility? - Why dealerships lose service and parts searches to Jiffy Lube - Separate department profiles for parts and service, and the eligibility rule Google waived for car dealers - When do city and location pages cross the line into doorway page spam? - Review gating, the FTC update, and why Google is removing reviews 400 at a time - Recovering filtered Yelp reviews — a 15–20% return without earning a single new review - Local citations as the ante, not the win: what directories actually do for AI search visibility - Digital PR as off-site brand building, not link building with a new name A practical look at where local SEO fundamentals still hold, where they've quietly changed, and what AI search is rewarding right now. Subscribe for new episodes with the practitioners actually doing this work. Comment below: what's your primary Google Business Profile category, and when was the last time you actually questioned it? Connect with Greg Gifford ✅ SearchLab Digital → https://searchlabdigital.com ✅ Greg on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/greggifford/ ✅ Greg on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/user/BAMFOC ✅ Greg on X: https://twitter.com/greggifford ✅ Greg on Bluesky: ​​https://bsky.app/profile/greggifford.bsky.social ✅ Greg on Slidesshare: https://www.slideshare.net/greggifford?itemsPerPage=16 #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - Culture Index (hiring/personality pattern tool) → https://www.cultureindex.com - Culture Index (hiring/personality pattern tool) → https://www.cultureindex.com - Google Business Profile + the GBP Community Forum → https://support.google.com/business/community?hl=en - Local Search Tuesday → https://searchlabdigital.com/local-search-tuesdays/ - G50 Summit (SEO Oktoberfest) → https://seoktoberfest.net/ - SEO Week Presentation → https://seoweek.org/greg-gifford/
Why Video Is Now Table Stakes for SEO 🎥 with Cindy Krum
2026/09/14
https://page2pod.com - Why social and video now decide whether your brand makes it into AI Overviews — and why your own website is the last place to optimize. Cindy Krum, founder and CEO of MobileMoxie, argues that video has moved from a digital marketing must to an SEO must. Her case: LLMs are consensus machines. They don't care that your site says you're the best at something — they're aggregating what social, reviews, publishers, creators, and video say about you. If the web can't agree on what your brand is for, you haven't done the work. She also walks through why a long-form video with real chapters behaves like a set of separate blog posts, each section eligible to answer a different question, and why short-form vertical video still matters for discovery even though it isn't showing up in AI Overviews yet. Plus: entity-first indexing, query fan-out, People Also Ask as the testing ground for AI Overview inclusion, and where Google Discover, Merchant Center, and TikTok Shop collide. 🎥 In This Episode - Why Google keeps pulling YouTube into AI Overviews - Do engagement metrics matter for getting cited by AI? - Scripting video so the transcript contains the actual search phrase - Turning your help center and FAQ pages into video answers - Where vertical video ranks today — and where it doesn't - What should a video chapter structure actually look like? - Entity-first indexing, MUM, and query fan-out, explained plainly - Building an entity plus its modifiers into an AEO prompt set - Who owns SEO when discovery happens on social and Reddit If search has become a journey that moves across platforms, this is a practical map of where to spend your effort first. Subscribe for weekly conversations with the practitioners shaping SEO, AEO, and GEO. Drop a comment: at your company, who actually owns social video — the SEO team or the social team? And has that changed in the last year? Find Cindy Krum ✅ MobileMoxie → https://mobilemoxie.com ✅ Cindy on X → https://x.com/suzzicks ✅ Cindy on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/cindykrum #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark Official Site → https://jonclark.co ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark Chapters 0:00 Search Beyond the Website 2:16 Cindy Krum and MobileMoxie 5:51 Why Google Cares About Video 8:49 How Social Drives Brand-First Search 11:47 Scripting Video for Keywords 13:56 Turning Support Content Into Video 15:42 Vertical Video and AI Overviews 17:40 How Should You Structure Chapters? 20:12 Sponsor: Moving Traffic Media 20:56 AEO as a Branding Channel 24:15 Journeys, Micro-Moments, and MUM 26:53 Entity-First Indexing Explained 31:44 People Also Ask as Query Fan-Out 33:53 Merchant Center, Discover, TikTok Shop 38:45 Where to Focus for AI Overviews 40:02 Who Owns SEO Now? 44:14 Rapid Fire and Career Advice 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - OtterlyAI (Thomas Peham, previous episode) → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJsQ2qJho-M - All About Fraggles → https://moz.com/blog/fraggles - Google MUM (Multitask Unified Model) → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQDRL8MwVj0 - See Cindy at the Amaze Conference → https://amazeconference.com/
ChatGPT Cites Publishers With Deals 48% More 📈 with Thomas Peham
2026/09/07
https://page2pod.com - Publishers with OpenAI deals get cited 48% more by ChatGPT. Thomas Peham of Otterly.AI on what AI search citation testing actually shows. Most AI search advice is theory. Thomas Peham, CEO and co-founder of Otterly.AI, runs a team with two full-time GEO researchers whose only job is to test it. Across millions of citations from ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Google AI Overviews, a consistent picture emerges: corporate and brand websites supply roughly 40–60% of all citations, niche and trade media outperformed mainstream publishers in 16 of 17 US industries studied, and publishers holding licensing deals with OpenAI pick up about 48% more ChatGPT citations than those without. The uncomfortable findings are here too. Schema markup lifted Google organic and AI Overviews visibility but did nothing measurable on ChatGPT. Crawl data shows almost no activity on llms.txt files, while sitemaps get hit constantly. A fictional agency with no clients and no history got recommended by ChatGPT purely by earning mentions in the articles ChatGPT was already citing. And 25% of the URLs ChatGPT cites are dead links. Thomas also shares Otterly.AI's own Claude numbers, which should make anyone in B2B re-examine their analytics: Claude accounts for 0.1–0.2% of their website traffic, but 10.6% of net-new leads name it as where they first heard about the company. 🧪 In This Episode - Why hiring dedicated GEO researchers became the marketing strategy - Does schema markup actually influence ChatGPT citations? - The llms.txt crawl data — and why sitemaps deserve the attention instead - Where AI citations come from: corporate sites, niche media, and publisher licensing deals - The fake London SEO agency experiment and what it exposes about off-page manipulation - Building brand sentiment through reviews, product content, and a central brand entity - Why YouTube long-form gets cited regardless of view count - What Claude's citation data reveals about B2B buying you can't see in analytics A practitioner's look at what's been tested, what held up, and what marketers should stop doing. Subscribe for new episodes with the people actually running the experiments in SEO, AEO, and GEO. Which finding would change your roadmap first — the schema results, the llms.txt crawl data, or the 48% licensing gap? Tell us in the comments. #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - Thomas Peham → https://thomas-peham.com/ - Thomas Peham on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomaspeham/ - Thomas Peham on Twitter → https://twitter.com/tompeham - Thomas Peham on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/tompeham/- Otterly.AI → https://otterly.ai - Otterly.AI's Agent Analytics → https://otterly.ai/blog/agent-analytics/ - Otterly.AI's Claude Citation Study: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/thomaspeham_our-claude-citation-study-shows-reddit-activity-7477977546194849792-gu8-/
Entity SEO: How to Track Google's Confidence Score 📊
2026/08/31
https://page2pod.com - Entity SEO finally has a number: Lidia Infante on tracking Google's confidence in your brand with the Knowledge Graph API. Lidia Infante leads SEO and AI search at Pleo, following senior roles at SurveyMonkey, BigCommerce, and Sanity. She walks through the entity work most teams talk about but can't measure — querying the Google Knowledge Graph API for a confidence score, tracking that score in a Google Sheet, and using the movement to prove that third-party profile cleanup and consistent semantic triples actually changed something. That's the case for Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) work you can defend in a budget meeting. She also gets practical about the rest of the job: using LLMs to break a research library into individual tagged facts and place them inside existing content, correlating clicks on candidate brand terms against real signups to decide what your product should even be called, and why disagreeing with consensus may be the last cheap differentiator in a landscape full of AI-generated averages. Then the part nobody puts in a conference deck — legal approval layers, 16-market localization, and the business questions a growth leader has to answer before proposing any strategy at all. 🧩 In This Episode - How do you track Google's confidence in your brand entity? - The CORE framework: consistency, optimization, repetition, engagement - Breaking research reports into tagged facts with Python and the Gemini API - What should your product actually be called? Correlating brand terms to signups - Why going against consensus still ranks when everything else is an average - Getting content through legal without six-month lead times - The questions a new growth leader should answer before proposing a strategy A rare conversation that connects entity theory to the org chart, the legal queue, and the P&L that decide whether any of it ships. 👉 Subscribe for new practitioner interviews on SEO, AEO, and GEO every week. 💬 Have you run your brand through the Knowledge Graph API yet? Tell us what came back — and which entity Google thinks you are. Find Lidia ✅ Lidia Infante on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/lidiainfante/ ✅ Lidia Infante on X → https://x.com/LidiaInfanteM ✅ Lidia Infante on Bluesky → https://bsky.app/profile/lidia-infante.com ✅ Lidia's website → https://www.lidia-infante.com/ ✅ Lidia Infante on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@LidiaInfanteM/ ✅ Lidia Infante on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/lidiainfantem/ #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - Lidia's Synthetic Research Pannel → https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lidiainfante_i-am-a-girl-with-a-claude-subscription-and-activity-7490867156474171392-xnRo/ - SEO and Brand Sitting in a Tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G → https://speakerdeck.com/lidiainfante/seo-and-brand-sitting-in-a-tree-k-i-s-s-i-n-g
What Fan-Out Queries Reveal About AI Search 🔍 with Malte Landwehr
2026/08/24
https://page2pod.com - Fan-out queries expose the exact words LLMs want to see about your brand — Peec AI's Malte Landwehr on how to read them. Malte Landwehr is CPO and CMO at Peec AI, and he spent two decades in search before this — VP Product at Searchmetrics, then VP SEO at idealo, running enterprise SEO across roughly 130 million pages. His core argument: LLMs reward consensus. If your website, your founder's LinkedIn, your press release footer, and your G2 profile describe you three different ways, the model has nothing consistent to trust. Describing yourself identically everywhere you have control is the highest-leverage AI visibility work most brands still haven't done. He also gets specific about what doesn't hold up. Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) have picked up tactics that don't survive testing — schema markup can't carry facts your body copy leaves out, duplicate .md versions of pages went uncited across hundreds of thousands of chats, and llms.txt is guidance for AI agents rather than a visibility lever. What works is duller: declarative sentences, concrete numbers, and content that answers what the fan-outs are already asking about you. 🔎 In This Episode - Why LLMs look for consensus — and what happens when your site, LinkedIn, and G2 profile don't match - How should you do keyword research when fan-out queries add terms you never wrote? - What ChatGPT's site: fan-outs reveal about whether OpenAI has its own link graph - Does schema markup still influence AI citations? What the testing actually shows - Markdown copies, .md URLs, and llms.txt — where each one belongs - Product feeds, Yelp/Resy/OpenTable, and how local visibility works inside ChatGPT - Why the biggest lever is usually the wrong first project A practitioner's map of what to change, what to measure, and what to ignore in AI search right now. Subscribe for new episodes with the practitioners actually doing the work → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1 Comment: what's the strangest term you've seen appended to a fan-out query for your brand? Connect with Malte Landwehr ✅ Malte on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/landwehr ✅ Malte on X → https://x.com/maltelandwehr ✅ Malte's Personal website → https://www.maltelandwehr.de ✅ Peec AI → https://peec.ai #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark
Direct Traffic Is Your Missing AI Metric 📈 - Derek Hobson on Why You Should Report SEO + Direct
2026/08/17
https://page2pod.com - Clicks are disappearing. Derek Hobson makes the case that direct traffic is the AI search signal most teams aren't measuring. Derek Hobson — SEO strategist, writer behind SEO Humorist, and former Senior Director of SEO and AI Search at Brainlabs — argues that when organic clicks shrink, the proof of impact moves elsewhere: direct sessions, log files, and query fan-out data. On several of his accounts, direct and organic tracked in parallel for years until direct broke upward right as clicks fell and impressions climbed. His read: people research a brand inside an LLM, then go straight to the site. He can't prove it yet, and he says so out loud to clients — but directionally, it's the number he'd watch. The second argument is organizational. Off-page SEO can't sit in an optional package anymore now that answer engines scrape, aggregate, and synthesize third-party sources. That means SEO, paid, PR, and social have to actually talk to each other — and most companies are still built around separate teams, separate budgets, and separate reporting. Jon Clark and Joe DeVita also get into automating reporting with Apps Script, why LLM referral numbers in analytics are almost certainly wrong, and why Derek thinks every SEO should investigate a win as aggressively as a loss. 📊 In This Episode - Is direct traffic the AI search signal most teams are ignoring? - Who actually owns the direct channel — and why nobody claims it - Why off-page SEO stopped being an optional line item - Query fan-out and grounding queries: what the Gemini API and Microsoft Clarity now expose - Why LLM referral traffic looks impossibly small in analytics - Building a paid-and-organic gap analysis that starts real cross-team conversations - Automating monthly data pulls with Apps Script and pattern-matching keywords with embeddings - Investigating positive results the same way you'd investigate a drop A practical look at what "proving the work" looks like when the click is no longer the unit of measurement. Subscribe for new Page 2 Podcast episodes with the practitioners actually doing this work. Comment: who owns direct traffic at your company — and have you seen the same uptick Derek describes? Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark Find Derek Hobson ✅ SEO Humorist → https://seohumorist.com ✅ Derek Hobson on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/dereknhobson/ ✅ Derek Hobson on YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@seohumorist ✅ Derek Hobson on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/user/SEO_Humorist/ ✅ Derek Hobson on Instagram → https://instagram.com/seohumorist✅ Derek Hobson on Bluesky → https://bsky.app/profile/seohumorist.bsky.social✅ Derek Hobson on X → https://x.com/Seo_humorist✅ Derek Hobson on TikTok → https://tiktok.com/@seohumorist
Sophie Brannon on the Hidden Cost of AI in Agencies and How it Could Rewrite the Standard Retainer
2026/08/10
https://page2pod.com - Sophie Brannon bans new hires from touching AI for three months. Here's how an SEO agency builds AI workflows without losing the thinking underneath them. Sophie Brannon is co-founder and director of StudioHawk US, the Atlanta arm of the global SEO agency, which she launched from scratch and grew to $1.4M in its first nine months. Her position: AI is genuinely compressing agency delivery timelines — content briefs, IA mapping, and audits that took weeks now take days — but a junior who reaches for ChatGPT before they understand the work never develops the strategic judgment that becomes their actual job. So new StudioHawk hires do everything manually for their first three months, then earn access back. She also lays out the commercial side nobody's solved yet: token budgets replacing headcount budgets, the possibility of agencies pricing retainers on estimated token usage instead of hours, and why AI visibility means very little until you can tie it to traffic and revenue — across roughly 100 brands StudioHawk surveyed, AI search accounted for about 0.07% of total revenue. Jon Clark and Joe DeVita dig into the agency mechanics too: why StudioHawk runs direct-to-specialist with no account managers, why they refuse long-term contracts, how link costs get absorbed while digital PR runs on a points-based money-back guarantee, and what Sophie still won't hand to a model. 🤖 In This Episode - Why new hires are banned from using AI for their first three months - What do clients actually ask about AI search — and how to answer without jargon - The AI search tracking stack: GA4 AI organic, Peak, SEMrush AI, Ahrefs Rank Tracker - Which AI search metrics matter: visibility, citations, mentions, and the revenue line underneath them - Digital PR's points system — a link is 1 point, an unlinked mention is 0.5, with a pro-rata money-back guarantee - Will agencies charge clients based on token usage instead of hours? - Automated content briefs and IA structure mapping built with n8n and Claude - The three things Sophie won't automate: strategy, creative, and client comms A rare look at the operating decisions behind an SEO agency scaling in the AI era, from someone 18 months into building one. 👉 Subscribe for new episodes with the practitioners actually doing this work: https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 💬 Would you ban your junior hires from using AI for their first three months — or is that training them for a world that no longer exists? Tell us in the comments. Find Sophie Brannon ✅ Sophie Brannon on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophie-brannon-081bb294/ ✅ Sophie Brannon on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/sophiebrannon_seo/ ✅ StudioHawk US → https://studiohawk.com ✅ Sophie Brannon's Personal Website → http://sophiebrannon.com #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark
What TikTok Shop Teaches SEO Content Teams with Angela Skane
2026/08/03
https://page2pod.com - Content strategy that moves rankings: Angela Skane took her blog from page 3 to page 1 by optimizing what she already had — not publishing more. Angela Skane is SEO & Content Strategy Manager at Newfold Digital, where she leads global content strategy for Network Solutions and a portfolio of brands serving small business owners. Fresh off her first SEO Week stage talk, she brings a framework most search teams never look at: the way TikTok Shop creators hook, hold, and convert an audience in under 60 seconds. Her argument is that attention is earned moment by moment, in an article the same way it is in a video. Every page needs a job. Every section has to keep the reader moving. And a page that technically ranks can still fail if it doesn't speak to the person actually making the decision. Along the way: why traditional demographic personas are too thin, why environmental data about your audience changes how you frame every problem, and why her team allows zero AI-generated content on the blog while using AI heavily for research and synthesis. 🎧 In This Episode - The four-phase creator arc — hook, name your audience, appeal to emotion, close the action - Layering psychological triggers by journey stage instead of picking one and running it all year - What does a "job" for a page actually look like, and how do you tell when a page isn't doing it? - Page 3 to page 1 in 18 months by optimizing existing content over publishing volume - Environmental-data personas: small business failure rates, cost pressures, and what else is on the buyer's mind - Do 3,000-word guides still work? Her top-converting article says yes - Where AI belongs in the workflow — research and data synthesis, never the paragraph If your content is ranking but not converting, this one is about the gap between the two. Subscribe for new practitioner interviews on SEO and Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) every week. Angela says to name your audience explicitly in the copy. Have you tried it — and did engagement actually move? Tell us in the comments. ⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro: Attention Is Earned2:08 Meet Angela Skane3:36 What Is Newfold Digital?5:46 From Data Journalism to SEO7:18 Why TikTok Shop Caught Her Eye9:14 The Four-Phase Creator Framework11:40 Applying TikTok Signals to Articles15:07 Which Emotion Fits Which Stage?19:55 Every Page Needs a Job23:03 Are Traditional Personas Still Useful?28:16 How Do You Diagnose a Weak Page?31:09 Do 3,000-Word Guides Still Work?36:39 Should AI Write Your Blog Content?39:28 SEO Pods, Briefs, and Research40:59 How Do You Report Content Value?44:19 How the Teams Actually Collaborate47:11 Rapid-Fire Round Connect with Angela ✅ Angela Skane on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelaskane/ ✅ Network Solutions → https://www.networksolutions.com Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources - TikTok Shop → https://shop.tiktok.com - 2739 — the TikTok Shop coaching community Angela learned the framework → https://www.tiktok.com/discover/2739-membership?lang=en - Dustin Davis — creator who breaks down TikTok content through a psychology lens - Angela's article on the eight human desires in psychology → https://searchengineland.com/persuasive-content-human-psychology-478824 - "What to do after you buy a domain name" — her top-converting article (3,000+ words) → https://www.networksolutions.com/blog/bought-domain-now-what/
Agentic Commerce & llms.txt: What SEOs Must Know to Get Chosen by AI 🤖
2026/07/26
https://page2pod.com - Agentic commerce, llms.txt, and markdown for AI: Yoast principal SEO Alex Moss explains how brands get selected by AI agents — not just clicked. Alex Moss, principal SEO at Yoast and co-founder of FireCask, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita to unpack what it takes to be chosen by an AI agent: concise, quotable content, clear entity relationships, structured data, and a single machine-readable source of truth on your own domain. He calls the discipline "token optimization" — making information load faster for models the way Core Web Vitals made pages load faster for people. Alex also breaks down the standards war behind Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) — llms.txt, agents.md, Google's UCP and OKF, OpenAI's ACP — and why the tech for agentic commerce is ready even if consumers aren't. His advice is refreshingly practical: experiment, follow the engineers building these systems, and adopt one standard at a time. 🤖 In This Episode How Yoast decides which SEO defaults ship on — and why schema stays gated behind an APIWhy markdown beats HTML for LLM ingestion (an 80% token reduction on one real example)What does it actually mean to be "selected" by an AI agent instead of clicked?Is llms.txt worth adopting now? Alex's insurance-policy framework for unproven standardsThe Walmart–ChatGPT experiment and Alex's timeline for real agentic commerce adoptionAI information pages, entity maps, and building a source of truth machines can trustThe team you'd hire to launch an agentic-commerce-ready eCommerce brand todayWhether you're placing bets on llms.txt or ignoring the acronyms entirely, this conversation gives you a working framework for which AI-search standards deserve your time. Subscribe for new practitioner-level conversations on SEO, AEO, and GEO every week. 💬 Would you buy anything through a ChatGPT session today — and what's the biggest purchase you'd trust an AI agent with? Tell us in the comments. Guest links: Alex Moss → https://alex-moss.co.ukYoast → https://yoast.comFireCask → https://firecask.comSponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark #Page2Podcast #AgenticCommerce #AISearch #SEO #AEO 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned Yoast SEO → https://yoast.comFireCask → https://firecask.comllms.txt proposal → https://llmstxt.orgagents.mdNLWeb (Microsoft, RV Guha) → https://github.com/microsoft/NLWebYoast aggregation feature (entity/relationship endpoint)InLinks Entity Map (Dixon Jones) → https://inlinks.comWordLift (Andrea Volpini) → https://wordlift.ioSchema.org → https://schema.orgShopify → https://www.shopify.comWooCommerce → https://woocommerce.comCloudflare markdown /crawl endpoint & content negotiation → https://www.cloudflare.comGoogle UCP, OKF, Knowledge Catalogue & ARD (proposed standards)OpenAI ACP (Agentic Commerce Protocol)Astro → https://astro.buildGoogle LighthousebrightonSEO → https://brightonseo.comReykjavik Internet Marketing Conference (Sept 17)
Why JavaScript Isn’t the Problem — Rendering Is with Giacomo Zecchini
2026/07/20
https://page2pod.com - JavaScript isn't breaking your SEO — rendering is. Merj R&D Director Giacomo Zecchini on what Google and AI crawlers actually see. Giacomo Zecchini has spent years injecting tracking beacons into Google's rendering service to replace industry folklore with data. His research with Vercel found that virtually every indexable page crawled by Googlebot gets rendered — so the "rendering budget" most SEOs plan around doesn't behave the way the industry assumes. The real failures live in implementation: APIs timing out mid-render, lazy-loaded content that never fires under Google's viewport expansion, and hero images that shove main content thousands of pixels down the page. Do AI crawlers render JavaScript? Some can — but none do it consistently. Giacomo's testing shows bots like ClaudeBot, Mistral, and DuckAssistBot sometimes render and sometimes fetch raw HTML using the same user agent, which is why Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) starts with content that survives a no-render fetch. He also makes the case for serving Markdown to bots via the Accept HTTP header (a web standard) instead of .md URLs, and shows how one swapped ARIA label made ChatGPT's agent click Cancel instead of Save — turning accessibility into an agentic-web requirement, not a nice-to-have. ⚙️ In This Episode Why "JavaScript problems" are really rendering and implementation problemsThe rendering budget myth, tested against live Googlebot dataHow does Google's viewport expansion handle lazy loading and infinite scroll?Auditing rendering backwards: from rendered page to rendering treeWhich AI crawlers actually render JavaScript — and why it changes per fetchServing Markdown via the Accept header vs. .md URLs vs. llms.txtWhy bad ARIA labels make AI agents take the wrong action on your siteA masterclass in the infrastructure layer of search visibility — what machines can actually access, interpret, and act on. Subscribe for practitioner-level SEO, AEO, and GEO conversations every week. 💬 Giacomo serves Markdown to any bot that asks for it — Google's advice notwithstanding. Would you serve Markdown to AI crawlers on a client site, or is HTML-only still the right call? Tell us in the comments. Connect with Giacomo Zecchini✅ Follow Giacomo Zecchini on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gzecchini/✅ Follow Giacomo Zecchini on X / Twitter: https://x.com/giacomozecchini✅ Follow Giacomo Zecchini on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/giacomozecchini.bsky.social✅ Follow Giacomo Zecchini on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@giacomozecchini✅ Follow Giacomo Zecchini on SpeakerDeck: https://speakerdeck.com/giacomozecchini✅ Follow Giacomo Zecchini on SlideShare: https://www.slideshare.net/giacomozecchini✅ Giacomo Zecchini's Personal Website: https://giacomozecchini.com Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclarkFollow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned• Merj Official Site: https://merj.com• Google JS Rendering Capabilities Research with Vercel: https://vercel.com/blog/how-google-handles-javascript-throughout-the-indexing-process• AI Cralwer's Accept Language Research: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/merj-com_this-is-something-most-multilingual-sites-activity-7434943896385822720-T2u1• Merj's take on serving Markdown Files: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/merj-com_ai-agents-are-reading-your-site-right-now-activity-7466111771209142272-3xEy

Podcast reviews

Read The SEO Podcast: Page 2 Podcast podcast reviews


5 out of 5
16 reviews
★★★★★
Ana DeV 2025/12/21
Great Podcast for digital marketers
A solid mix tactics discussed with a variety of marketing professionals
★★★★★
Land on Moore 2025/11/23
Thought Provoking
Great series with interesting marketing and SEO thought leaders.
★★★★★
Rated_P 2021/02/10
The Interviews
Fantastic, intimate interviews that end up touching upon great SEO discussion along the way!
★★★★★
DesPA75 2019/11/17
Very Informative
Jake and Jeff are a wealth of SEO knowledge, this is a must listen for those in the industry.
★★★★★
Springsking30265 2019/11/14
A Fantastic Point of View on SEO
Jake and Jeff do an excellent job of talking with the biggest names in the SEO and digital marketing space. They delightfully balance SEO news and ind...
★★★★★
JeffLouella 2019/11/14
Some of the best guests in the SEO industry.
Jake started something great here. Jake takes you on a journey of what makes an SEO. Since no one goes to school for SEO, what are the stories that dr...
★★★★★
djs4mcs 2018/11/28
Candid discussion on SEO life
Talking with a professional SEO about their life in the industry is a great way to learn about the challenges faced and what to expect for folks getti...
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