Advertise on podcast: Jessup Think

Professor Matt Godshall joins the show to explore what true masculinity looks like. This episode expands on our previous session toxic masculinity.

Esteemed Hebrew Scriptures professor Cynthia Schafer-Elliott joins the show before she heads out to join the biblical studies department at Baylor University. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Everyone welcome to Jessup Think. I'm your host Mark Moore 0:04 and your co host Rex gurney. 0:06 Rex, we are here in the fishbowl studios on the beautiful campus of William Jessup University. And on the show today we have a fellow colleague, Dr. Cynthia Schaefer-Elliot is actually gonna be leaving Jessup and going to Baylor 0:20 Yeah, it's gonna be a huge loss. And she was one of the first guests on the podcast. 0:24 Yeah, she was one of the original Friends of the show. And she is our kind of Premier archaeologist. On campus. 0:33 She's actually yeah. But she's Premier, she 0:37 wouldn't be premier anywhere. And in Hebrew Scriptures, professor and just a great colleague and great friend, and we're excited to have her on the show, to talk about her new adventures, but also kind of talk about the role of archaeology, in in shaping how we read Scripture and how we understand those scripture was written. 1:06 Well, Cynthia, it is so good to have you on the show for a final time as a William Jessup University professor, so thanks for joining us. 1:17 Thanks for having me. 1:18 You know, you she's leaving for the Promised Land Jerusalem on the browser. I can't compete with that. But you know, I guess we all have that. 1:28 That's true. Well, we are excited. And maybe you could share with us a little bit where you're going and what the new adventure holds for you. 1:35 Yeah, I am going to Baylor University in Waco, Texas. Yes. So I accepted an offer to be an associate professor there of Hebrew bible old testament, and I'll be doing a lot of the same stuff I do here as far as teaching Old Testament and archaeology. I won't be the only archaeologist there, though, like I am here. So yeah, that will be nice. But I'll be in the religion department. And then after my first year there, I'll also start having doctoral students 2:11 in Old Testament or an archaeology or in combination of both or what 2:16 it could be just Old Testament, it could be a combination of the two. They do have an anthropology department and with an archaeology concentration, but they do mostly like my so you're Mesoamerican archaeology. And I think somebody works in Greece. But a couple of my colleagues in the religion department are similar to me where they do both Hebrew Bible and archaeology. So it will be nice to have some people to talk to. 2:45 You think there might be some opportunities for I guess, collaboration with Chu at seminary there? We've actually had some Jessup graduates that have gone to Troy really? 2:53 Yeah, yeah. So the religion department at Baylor, they have an undergrad program, they intentionally don't have a master's program, because the seminary is the least the way I understand it. And this is not a complete understanding, in any way. But I think that they are loosely affiliated, they're connected in some way. And so the religion department intentionally doesn't have any master's programs, because if someone who wants to they would send them to the seminary, okay, but then they have the Ph. D. Program, 3:27 which is on campus anyway. I mean, it's kind of linked. So 3:30 yeah, it's it's close enough. I think they have their own campus, but it's pretty close. The way I understand it, but you would probably know better than I would, 3:39 you know, I mean, not that I'm a dentist and a waco at all. But last time, we were there, and I've only been there twice. We actually it's 3:47 one more time than me. 3:50 We hooked up with the Jessup graduate that was going to try it and he actually medicine the library at just kind of the main library on campus at Baylor and it was really good to see him there. He's one of our history graduates ac

Author Os Guinness joins the show to talk about his new book, The Great Quest: Invitation to an Examined Life and a Sure Path to Meaning. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Hey everyone. Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host, Mark Moore. And on the show today, we are so privileged to have prolific author and social critic Os Guinness, and he's the author editor, over more than 30 books. His most recent book is called the great quest, invitation to unexamined life, in a sure path, meaning it's a fascinating conversation that he and I get to have. And he is a fascinating author and has lived an amazing life. I hope you enjoy the show. And I hope you're inspired to live an examined life a life that asked questions that seeks answers, and that responds to faith in Christ enjoy the show. 0:46 Os, thank you so much for joining us on the show to talk about your new book and also talk about your your amazing career as a writer and all that you've written. 1:05 Well, it's a great privilege to be with you. Thank you, Mark. 1:09 Yeah, and it really has been struck by by your new book, The great quest, and just the idea of searching for meaning and understanding direction in life, I think it's gonna be so helpful for our students and and and students who have just graduated who are still very much maybe searching for direction in their life. And also, even you know, and you know, this, under this, even as you get older, you still have a search for meaning in our lives. So excited to have you on the show, to talk about that. Where are you joining us today? 1:48 I'm joining you from Montauk on Long Island in New York. 1:52 That's great. So we're coast to coast today on the podcast. When you talk about the great quest, I'd love to kind of maybe start right there. What what is the great quest? 2:07 Well, the great quest is the journey towards the search for the meaning of life. And I think that notion of the journey, the picture, the journey, is probably the most universal human picture of what life is about. So it's an odd thing today that many of the philosophers think that the meaning of life is irrelevant. You know, one book actually said, it's only for madmen, and comedians. But that's absolutely crazy. Because almost everything we do, assumes and requires meaning, or compensation now, or going into the film you want to watch, whatever it is, meaning is so important. And ultimately, only if you know the meaning of life, can you really make the most of life and live a life worthy of life? 2:59 Yeah, and I think journey is just a great picture of that. And I think it is universal, because we have that idea of, of being on a journey together. I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey of, of how you started to think about the meaning of life and pursuing that he talks about a little bit in the book. 3:20 Well, I grew up my first 10 years was spent in China, with incredibly wartime circumstances. So I was born in the war with Japan, 17 million were killed in that war, when the Japanese army invaded the Chinese flooded the Yellow River where we were, they killed 900,000 of their own people overnight, because they won them. And then my parents who are medical missionaries, my parents and I were in a famine in which 5 million died in three months, including, sadly, my two brothers. Wow. And then we lived and we then we moved to Nanking, Nanjing today, which had been, you know, on the receiving end of the Rape of Nanking. And I experienced the first two years of the reign of terror under Mao Zedong. So my first 10 years were quite dramatic. Yeah, war torn, revolutionary, and so on. So I'm sure that's part of what gave me a very realistic view of life. But it was really only back in England when I was a boarding school and I began to really search for myself. And then I'm very grateful that when I came to faith, I came to faith and I went to university in the 1960s. Because the 60s, you know, drugs

English professor Cameron Wilson joins the show to discuss the importance of good literature in pursuit of a deeper faith. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Everyone welcome to Jessup Think. I'm your host Mark Moore and your co-host Rex Gurney. And Rex on the show today. We are so grateful to have Dr. Cameron Wilson, the chair of our English department here at Jessup. 0:14 You know, sometimes we have people from as far away as Australia but this time, he's actually just down the hall from me. 0:20 just had to walk over from the offices and we're recording today's show in our brand new fishbowl studio on Jessup, campus fishbowl, which is now the home of Jessup Think. So hope you enjoy the show. And as we are enjoying our new studio 0:45 Well, Cameron, it is great to finally have you on the show. So Rex, I'm so excited to have the Cameron Wilson 0:52 We've been trying to get Cameron on the show for years, but he has just refused every time some people are just terrified of the microphone. But their cameras too big for the mic. Oh, that could be that could be too especially someone who celebrated his camera. 1:07 And I know there's there's no cameras in here so people aren't able to see like my actual physical stature. how intimidating a physical presence I am to people. So Right. 1:17 Yeah, it just have to come through your voice right through your voice, 1:20 but stentorian is the Armani suit that I'm wearing. Yeah, I didn't know this was just going to be audio. But 1:27 so is the part you dress that 1:28 part. I don't know if our if our audience knows. But for a number of years when camera first started working here, the head of the department always referred to Cameron with an adjective in front of his name. And she would always say, young cameras, young camera and young camera on camera. And then the young dropped away after a while. 1:49 Yeah, yeah. Once I had kids, and the bags underneath the eyes started appearing and 1:55 just just wait till the gray starts coming in, then you get this, sir, can I help you, sir? I'm like, appreciate that. But like, I wouldn't have gotten that. 2:06 Or they insist you take the SR minuette. at Wendy's, which happened the first year I we moved up here from San Jose, I was like, only 55. And, and I was like arguing with the person. You know, it's like, I'm only 55. How can I like have this senior menu and she just refused to let me go. So it's like, whatever. 2:24 Hey, if I'm getting a discount, take it. Yeah, I'll do a senior 2:28 menu. My discount. My parents used to get frustrated with me because we go out to dinner, and I'd be 1415 years old, and I get offered the children's menu. And I'd be trying to correct like the waiter and my parents be like, be quiet. Yes. Quiet. You can get the food for a lot less expensive. And there might be some at least look at it. And so I don't know, I feel like yeah, I'll probably get that on the tail end as well. You know, get the senior discount alone may 2:54 take you longer to get the senior Yeah, you might actually argue that, hey, I do deserve a senior discount. That's where it'll get you. Right? You'll be living it up like, Hey, I look so young. But you won't get those discounts. People who look more seasoned. Right? Right. excited to have you on the show to talk about one of my one of my loves. And I know with Rex as well. We're background in it, but literature. Yeah. How, how literature kind of shapes the way we see the world and how it enhances our faith. We do want to note here at the beginning that we are recording this in a new space. Sorry, I just called the fishbowl so a new podcast studio. That will be the home of Jessup think 3:42 very cool. And it's I think appropriate that in our initiating the fishbowl with the first podcast here that there are three English majors in the room right now. Yes, only one of whom is teaching English here it will reve

Sociologist George Yancey joins the show to discuss his new book Beyond Racial Division: A Unifying Alternative to Colorblindness and Antiracism. TRANSCRIPT 0:00 Hey everyone. Welcome to Jessup Think and I'm your host, Mark Moore 0:03 and your co-host Rex Gurney 0:06 Rex on the show today we have Dr. George Yancey, He's professor at the Institute for Studies of religion at Baylor University. He specializes in race and religion. And his new book is entitled Beyond Racial Division: A Unifying Alternative to Colorblindness and Anti-racism. 0:23 And I found it one of the most helpful books that I've read recently on this subject. And so I hope you enjoy the conversation with George 0:38 just excited to have you on the show to talk about your book. And and I really appreciate the approach you take in. In theology, I often find myself kind of looking for a middle ground between two extremes. And and so I'm always I always appreciate someone who takes an approach that wreck can see both sides maybe for what they are and seek a new path. And so I think this was really helpful for me as I was processing through. And I always love the work of a social scientists to that as you approach it, I just feel like you bring something that is so helpful for theologians and biblical scholars and others to, to look at kind of look at this kind of experiential data, along with the theological. as we as we kind of start, I'd love to love to clarify some terms for our listeners, in the sense of you're looking at this unifying alternative between colorblindness and anti racism. So maybe, maybe you start with colorblindness. How do you define colorblindness? 1:51 Yeah, so colorblindness is basically when you when you say you don't see race. So the way in which you try to deal with racism, as you say, Well, I don't see race. And that is you don't see race, and you can't treat people differently based on race. So it's pretty straightforward in that way. Some of the people who talk about it will say what's not, we know that you can totally ignore race by trying to minimize the way you treat people by race, and it should not be a factor in how you treat them, or whether or not you get a job or anything like that. So those are some of the more extreme ones as well. dormers completely, some of the more realistic ones said, Well, we really can't do that we do see rights, but we're just going to try not to act based upon 2:33 it, or what I hear a lot, it's like nobody was thinking about race until you brought the word up. Because I just don't think it's often an exercise in changing the subject I found but well, in a lot, you know, 2:47 it's yeah, the the, the, the will argue a color blindness perspective will say, you know, if you if you, you racialize this, and that's what caused the problems, right problem is people who bring race into the subject from their point of view, right? 3:04 Yeah, and I can, I mean, looking back at my experience, kind of growing up in the Midwest and 80s, early 90s. I often heard that argument or, you know, oh, these people maybe on the left are always trying to bring race into the conversation. Even as a kid I heard that and kind of heard maybe that that roots of, of colorblindness and, and in some ways on the surface. The idea sounds like 3:31 a reasonable position. It's certainly a Christian position, actually. 3:36 Yeah, you're going back to like, the 70s, the civil rights movement. And you know, it sounds a lot like that, right? A lot like, hey, why don't you just treat me the same as everyone else? 3:48 Yeah, but there's definitely a different tinge to it. I mean, even recently, a lot of lot of politicians, particularly on on the right, have been drawn to that King quote, of right, Judge me not on the color of my skin, but the content of my character. But it seems to they seem to use it to mask what's really going on, right, and kind of changing

Pastor Kevin J. Adams joins the show to chat about his new book, Living Under Water: Baptism as a Way of Life. TRANSCRIPT 0:02 Hey everyone. Welcome to Jessup Think. I'm your host, Mark Moore 0:05 and your co host, Rex Gurney. 0:06 And Rex. We're so excited to have a local pastor in the studio today, Kevin Adams here to talk about his new book on baptism. 0:13 And it's rare that I have a published author that will come and knock on the door of my office to give me a copy of his book. Yeah, especially one that's published by earnings. And so I really appreciated that and really appreciate having him on the show today. 0:26 Yeah, we're excited to have Kevin, he's the founding and senior pastor of granite springs church here in Lincoln. And his new book is entitled, living underwater baptism as a way of life. Enjoy the show. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for joining us on the show. 0:48 Well, this is my pleasure. I've heard about you guys international presence, and I'm just glad to be a small part of 0:55 it. Well, usually, when we have a guest that you know, is a nationally published author, we have to, you know, spend a lot of money to get them here, but you just live right down the street, and 1:07 we're happy to have you're in the States. You're in 1:11 a remote guest. 1:12 Yeah, it's very good gift. 1:14 That's right. And excited to dive into your book and a book on baptism. Which did you think you would ever write a book on baptism? 1:24 I never thought I'd write any books. Yeah. So and then to say one on baptism, it would seem very unlikely. Yeah. 1:31 How did how did the book come about? How? 1:34 Yeah, so our church is always we have about maybe 30 Different denominational backgrounds, and we have maybe 12 to 15, or depending on the era, more countries of origin, birth places. So we're always looking for ways to bring people together in a way that doesn't dumb things down. So a few years ago, we spent a year in the Psalms, because if you're a Christian, who's orthodox or Catholic, or Protestant or Baptist or whatever, you're pro Psalms, and then we talked about a whole year of Scripture memory, like same thing, all those traditions, you said, Are you for scripture memory? Yes, we are. And then we looked around and said is what else is there? And we talked about baptism, I remember introducing this to our staff and say, I think we should spend a whole year talking about baptism. And they had this look of the fear of God. And we think that's a terrible idea. But we ended up doing it anyway. And it turned out to be quite a gift. So the book began with that, I'd say, 2:30 Yeah, that's great. So kind of birthed out of the local community. Yeah, right. 2:34 Speaking of local community, one of the one of the real joys of reading this book is, you know, I know that you have to like either lightly fictionalized or try to not make, you know, the campus that you're talking about, have a name with it, but we actually all know what their campus is. And we know half the people you're talking about, and that was actually fun to read about. Read about those those places. And those people? Oh, that's 2:59 great. Rex, it has stories from every era, and every continent, almost, I think, not Antarctica, but all the others. And it's fun to have a local feel as well. 3:09 When it was interesting, yeah. When I was reading, I could kind of feel I probably felt maybe the same way the staff was feeling when you brought that up, like, okay, yeah, it got me thinking of why. Why is baptisms such a divisive issue? Or why has it been a lightning rod? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Like, why do you think baptism in particular, has been something instead of bringing the church together, as in some in some times and some areas has actually torn the church apart? 3:40 Boy, that's a great question mark. And I can only give yo

Dr. Brad Harper, theology professor from Multnomah University, joins Mark and Rex to talk about his book which he co-wrote with his son, Drew, entitled Space at the Table: Conversations Between an Evangelical Theologian and His Gay Son. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Hey everyone. Welcome to Jessup Think I'm your host Mark Moore 0:04 and your co-host Rex gurney. 0:05 And on the show today we have Dr. Brad Harper. He's a professor of theology and church history at Multnomah University in Portland, Oregon. 0:12 Gotta be a good guy if he's a church history. Yeah, fellow 0:15 church history buff on the show. And he's here to talk with us about a book he co wrote with his son entitled space at the table conversations between an evangelical theologian and his gay son. 0:28 And I think the conversation we're about to have is not only interesting, but I think it's really important. 0:33 Enjoy the show. Brad, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Really, really excited for you to be here. Sure, glad to be here. And in our booth, when we were talking before, made a connection that you've actually taken some classes from San Jose Bible college, which became William Jessup University, 1:03 right. A long, long time ago in 1977. You 1:07 remember the VLF. When I first started working, I was only at I guess, San Jose Christian College, which morphed out of San Jose Bible college for two years before we moved up here to Rocklin. And when I first stepped on the campus, the Old San Jose campus, I was like, this looks like an elementary school. This doesn't look like a college. If you remember that old campus. It looks like it was an old elementary school. 1:31 Oh, yeah, absolutely. The lockers and the whole 1:36 whatever the whole thing. Yeah. Still some of this dalje for that, though, since Yeah, we're, we're different animal appear more often have very different thing. 1:46 Yeah, that's right. And keep Guerlain and but it's nice to nice to make that connection that we have. I have someone that has some, some roots some tentacles with with William Jessup University, and just again, excited to have you on the show. And, and I recently, read your books based at the table book you did with your son Drew, man was just deeply moved by it. And I actually I listened to the audio version. So which I thought which I thought was powerful to hear you, Andrew both read your parts. And, and for Drew to be able to act out some of the language too, I thought that was it was it was really good and really engaging. And so I'd love for, for listeners to, to maybe just hear a little bit of your story and your journey as a family. And maybe starting with looking at about how old was drew when he started talking to you and your wife about his sexuality? And maybe what was your first reaction? And what have you learned since then? 2:52 Yeah, you know, when Drew started talking to us about it, he was probably around around 13. Okay, so Middle School. Drew is 32. Now. So, you know, that was a while ago, almost 20 years ago, I would say. Now, it's not uncommon for LGBTQ kids in the in, wherever they were, whether they're in the church or not start talking their parenting earlier than that. We, it wasn't our first experience of thinking about drew in his gender identification sexuality, though, because as a little boy, from the time he was very, very young. Drew was kind of naturally attracted to things that social constructs tell us our girl stuff, you know, just, he just when he grew up, he really wasn't interested in sports, you know, or blowing things up or playing army, or whatever. He was interested in fashion, and art and opera. I mean, I remember taking them into to an opera when he was probably seven years old, and he was absolutely transfixed. He couldn't even believe how wonderful this was, you know, he loved writing poetry. By the time he was, you know, 19 years old, he was writi

Dr. Erin Ambrose joins the show again to chat with Mark and Rex about gender stereotypes in the church and the harm they cause. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Hey everyone, welcome into Jessup Think. I'm your host Mark Moore, 0:05 and your co-host Rex gurney. 0:07 Rex, we're excited to have back on the show Dr. Erin Ambrose, one of our famous psychology profs, 0:14 and we're going to be talking about something that's very, very important on multiple levels. And that is taken away. 0:20 Yeah, that is gender and gender roles. 0:23 And I didn't want to say that. So I'll let you get in trouble. But 0:27 Right, right. No, we want to Yeah, we want to dive into this topic. And this is just a is just a bird's eye view of, particularly within the church of of Bibi, what is biblical masculinity look like? What is the biblical femininity? How have we been misrepresented in the past and caused caused HURT How, how can we understand the complexity of gender and specifically kind of gender role, gender stereotypes within the church, we hope you will be engaged in this really important conversation, and, and we looking for more episodes to come where we maybe take a deeper dive into some of these. 1:15 Well, hey, it's so good to have you back on the show. Dr. Eri Ambrose, thank you so much for joining us. 1:22 Thanks for having me. 1:24 And we're going to kind of tackle a little bit a little bit off the cuff on this topic. But I know it's when we say off the cuff. It's going to be built on probably years of research and study that we've all done and, and opinion and biblical research all of that. But we're gonna be talking about gender and gender roles. And I mean, this is, you know, this is a topic that's not only within the church, but within culture, trying to understand what gender is what gender roles and so we're not mean, it's a pretty broad, we're not gonna be able to cover everything. But it's interesting how this kind of came up for us. Now. Our listeners might not know this, but I don't know if Rex and I really know this. We have an Instagram account. 2:11 I didn't we had we had two years of posts on it. I had absolutely no idea. We had one. 2:16 Yeah, we even had one. That's great. Rex 2:19 is not in charge of our social media, right? And neither neither am I, we actually have a student, you know, student intern round calling him and associate, you know, Assistant Producer, Math Pad, wonderful student. And he's been on the show, he's kind of done a couple side bits for us. And he was going through Instagram, and he realized we had Yeah, right. So you're saying we had two years of backlog messages? No shows? I don't even want to know what like my actual Instagram probably has 15 years back logged messages. I'm like, There's messages on Instagram. 2:56 Is this your formal apology to 3:00 this is this is my formal apology to our to our listeners. And we're solving that problem by hiring hiring the young people, right to look at to look after social media. But in going through those backlogs. We had a couple like topic suggestions. Right? Why don't you talk about this kind? Yeah. And one of the suggestions was gender and gender role and such. And it is. Yeah, it really is. And I think, especially in this last couple years, with within the church with publications like Jesus and John Wayne making a biblical womanhood church called Tov, the Christianity Today podcast on the rise and fall of Maurice Hill, you know, with all of those, it just felt, I mean, this has always been something but I think there's been some clarity brought to the discussion that, you know, within the church, particularly evangelical church, we have a we have a gender problem, gender role problem. And, and so we'd love to just kind of, kind of talk about that, you know, talk about that, when we especially when the church maybe we'll kind of start there. We have these phrases thrown

Mark and Rex follow up on their conversation with theologian Kelly Kapic by discussing the shocking truth that God not only loves us but God really likes us as well. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Welcome to Jessup Think. I'm your host Mark Moore and your co-host Rex Gurney. And Rex show today. We're actually just you and me, issue me now special guests. And we're going to do a follow up actually to one of our most recent podcasts we had with Kelly Capek. 0:17 Yeah, so just you and me, that's actually the title to a Chicago song before they jump the shark. And they definitely did jump the shark. And I'm old enough to know when that 0:27 happened. That's true. suggest you and me looking at it was from his book, you're only human and he had a chapter on? Does God like you? Right? Or does God love you? But he talks about that. So on the show, we're gonna we're gonna look at that question. Does God like you? 0:45 Yeah. Or does? You know, God liked me, actually. And there's all kinds of ways we can go with this. And I think it's a really, it's it's not just an interesting question. It's an important question. 0:56 It is. So hope you enjoy the show. Well, it is an important, you know, an important question, Rex. And, and there's a lot to it, right? This idea of, does God, I think we can start at the beginning, right? Does God love me? And then that maybe spills us into this god like me, 1:23 and the connection between words that we use, like, like, and love and what that even means when we're talking theologically. I actually was thinking about that when I was just thinking about the end of the topic today. Can we even use these words in describing God? I know we can use love. Right? That's Biblical. But yeah, like is that even? You know, is that even something that that we can talk about? I think it is, actually. Yeah. And I think it's important that it is but you know, I was wondering how you got into a category problem here. 2:00 Right? Yeah. Because it's. And I think, because when we use those terms, we think of them in human terms. Right, right. human sense. And we value 2:11 them like love is like better than like, right, in some way for some reason. And there's kind of a disconnect with that. Right? 2:19 Which is really interesting. Because it is right? Like if someone was significant other you say I love you do them. And they say I like you too, we'd be like, alright, but this is kind of the opposite. Right? God has said he loves us. And now we're asking, yeah, but does he really like us? 2:39 So I was actually reading an article by a very popular Christian author who remain nameless. And he was finding I liked the ministry. He was he was responding exactly to that. That question somebody had, I guess he has, like, you know, asked the experts sort of column. Yeah. And somebody was asking about, you know, does God like us? And basically, this author came down on the side of, well, it depends. So before the fall, God liked us. But after the fall, God doesn't like us. But then, because of His love, He sent His Son Jesus Christ. So I guess if we, you know, accept Christ as our Savior, then he likes us again. But he still doesn't like other people. He got really, really interesting. Yeah. And so I guess at the end of the article, it was like, well, well, yes. And no, and it sort of depends on, you know, your theological position, which is interesting. 3:36 That is that is because it's, it seems to make this separation, right. I mean, in there is a separation and how we experience ourselves as humans right? Pre fall, right. 3:47 And I understood, I mean, knowing his theological position, you know, God hates sin. And so if we're fallen than, you know, we're fallen creatures. So if you hate sin, and we're sinful, then I guess, you know, you've got a problem with God liking you. 4:01 Yeah. But that also, I think conflates your personal identity, right with sin. Ri

Scholar Thomas E. Reynolds joins the show to talk about how disability is handled in the church and how the church can foster a more open and hospitable community. TRANSCRIPT 0:00 Welcome to Jessup tank. I'm your host Mark Moore, 0:03 and your co-host Rex Gurney. 0:05 Rex on the show we have our actually our School of Theology's Annual Spring Lecturer is Dr. Thomas Reynolds. And he wrote a book called Vulnerable Communion, a theology of Disability and Hospitality. 0:19 And personally, I'm looking forward to the lecture and looking forward to this conversation. 0:23 As wonder conversation, he teaches Theology at Emmanuel College in Toronto, Canada. He's also a jazz pianist, and you went to undergrad in my hometown. So you'll hear a little bit more about that in the episode Hope you enjoy. 0:47 Thank you so much for joining us on the show. Glad to and excited to get into the topic. And, and part of this, you know, kind of we'll be talking to you because you're our annual spring lecture. And, and we have had to make that, you know, adjustment that will be virtual. Sorry for that. 1:10 Yeah, 1:11 I know, that's no problem. We totally understand the the intricacies of international travel right now. 1:19 It's, yeah, if only I lived in Chicago still, then it would be real, but the thought of, you know, getting stuck for days, and I get away from home that long. 1:30 So how long have you been at trial? 1:34 Since 2007? Oh, wow. Okay, I moved here from taught at a small Catholic School. St. Norbert College in Green Bay, Wisconsin. 1:42 I actually think I have heard of that. I don't know much about it. But to me, St. Norbert is around so 1:48 ya know, they're in the note with Ina, you know, tradition, and it's a great school. But part of that obvious attraction of Toronto was great resources for my son. And, you know, a big city. There were a lots of attractions of being here. 2:06 I actually found out and you know, this is like, super random, but that the Norbertine had actually have actually a, I don't know, a guesthouse or whatever they have in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is where I'm from, and they have taken over the parish that was right next to the elementary school that I went to when I was a kid Holy Rosary. And so it's just like a small world, I guess. 2:32 They do. Yeah, I can remember some of them going down to there for retreat there, basically. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, 2:40 go ahead. Yeah. Well, speaking a small world. I was looking at your bio, Tom. And notice that you went to Taylor University. I did. Yep. And I was born and raised in Fairmount, Indiana. 2:54 Oh, my goodness around the corner. 2:57 My mom actually worked at Taylor, in the Provost Office, and then in the Education Office for from about the early 90s to early 2000s. 3:09 Wow, I would have missed her. Because I graduated and what was it 85? Seems like, that gives a sense of my age. Unfortunately, I haven't been here but 3:22 yeah. Yeah. And did you have connection to Indiana or 3:28 the youth ministers at my church growing up in Chicago both had graduated from there. And I went there on a youth retreat once. And I really liked the sense of community there. And I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up, grew up, still trying to figure that out. And yeah, I love the place and it was that or Hope College looked at Hope College too, but because the connection with the youth ministers there and you know, I met lifelong friends at Taylor and musician friends that then we followed each other down to Nashville to play music for a while. And yeah, it was a great place. So it's heavy with Taylor, 4:07 is that how you ended up at Vanderbilt? Is that is that? Yep, I went there to pursue music 4:11 and and then Vanderbilt grade school was right there. So you know, I sort of did a not so easy task of navigating

Theologian Kelly Kapic joins us again to talk about our new book You're Only Human: How Your Limits Reflect God's Design and Why That's Good News. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Welcome to Jessup tank. I'm your host Mark Moore, 0:04 and your co host, Rex Gurney. 0:06 nd Rex. We are so privileged to have back on the show, Kelly M Capic. He's a professor of theological studies at Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Georgia, where he has actually taught there for 20 years, and he has a new book coming out called Your Only Human: How Your Limits Reflect God's Design and Why That's Good News. 0:26 I think you really enjoy this podcast, I know that I personally am getting a lot out of what he has to say in that book. 0:42 So excited to have you back on the show. This is time two. So you are definitely a friend of the show. Now your official status. We're, we're still Rex is going to be mad at me because we're still working on the t shirt friend of the show. It's only been three years since we've been trying to get the t shirt. 1:00 But well, we have an official paid minion now. So at least that's you know, that's that's somebody 1:05 closer. But excited, excited to have you on the show and excited to talk about your new book. You're only human how your limits reflect God's design and why that's good news. And I really appreciate it how you framed it through the idea of, of limits, because I think sometimes when we, when we talk about being human, it's we approach it more of how can we push past our limits? Right? How do we, how do we break this limit barrier? But I think you you did a really good job of kind of framing it like hey, your your limits actually show something about God and God's design and have something to teach us. So I'd love to kind of start there and and see, you know, why? Why are limits good? Right? And how do they kind of reflect God's design? 1:56 Yeah, I mean, it's, thanks for having me again. And I'm interested in this because I think, you know, I don't think this is what we talked about last time. But some years ago, I wrote a book on suffering through our family, we went, my wife had cancer and and since 2010, has dealt and still deals with chronic pain. And so reflecting on that through a book called embodied hope, and the importance of lament, and trying to be honest, both about how hard life can be and also how good God is. And not picking between those two is a big challenge for us. But having gone through that, I actually felt ready to finally write something I've been thinking about for decades. And that's this idea of the importance of being human. Because one of the things that became clear to me or even more clear, is that part of the reason we so struggled to understand lament and suffering in a in a holistic and more faithful way, is because we struggle to think about being human in faithful ways. And in particular, I think we confuse finitude and sin all the time. And I know finitude isn't a word a lot of people use, it sounds, you know, philosophical or abstract. Or they think of death. And it doesn't, it doesn't have to mean death. finitude, just as its basic meaning just means limited in, in space, time, knowledge, power, right, those kinds of limits. And once you put it that way, you realize, even even if there were no sin in this world, part of the definition of being a creature is you're here and not there. You know this and not that you can have this many relationships and not all relationships, right. And yet, I think we confuse finitude and sin all the time. So Christians constantly feel guilty for things I don't think they necessarily should. I'm a reformed theologian, if that means anything to your audience. So we're all about sin. I'm not I'm not trying to downplay sin. But having said that, I think you can go sideways. And this is January that we're recording this with everyone making new year's resolutions and stuff, which, you know, mayb

Jessup professor Derek Zahnd joins the show to talk about his recent book Hope for Unity and Diversity: How To Be A Christian Without Being A Jerk. TRANSCRIPT 0:01 Everyone welcome to Jessup Think. I'm your host Mark Moore 0:04 and your co host, Rex Gurney. 0:05 And Rex on the show. We have one of our own today, Professor Derek Zahnd. He is leader of our Master of Arts in Leadership and teaches with our theology and leadership division. And 0:16 I think he has the office like right next to you is He's right 0:19 next door, right? I can actually hear him through the wall. Sometimes he's here promo in his new book, which is hope for unity and diversity, how to be a Christian without being a jerk. 0:31 I think you'll enjoy the episode. 0:38 This is our first show of 2022. So Derek, thank you so much for joining us for this new year. 0:45 So glad to be here. 0:47 It's good. We're looking forward to a good year. Yeah. Good year, we've had a stream of not so good years. So I feel like you know, although don't they say things come in threes. So that's probably not sometimes. That's hope that's not true now. But as we, as we look at 2022, I was thinking this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, as we begin has nothing to do with the book or the topic, but Well, I was thinking we're not, you know, we're not going to make it. But 2222 That sounds like a pretty magical time to be alive. I wonder if they're gonna really appreciate it. Like how, like, that has only happened, what, you know, 1111 I guess each of the numbers so on 1:31 2020? Did people like you know, appreciate that too? Or is it sort of the last year 1:36 2020? But you know what, I never thought of it in 2020. 1:40 I probably never thought of saying something about it. But I never thought of it that either. 1:45 Now I didn't even think about it. Because it was just like now 2020 Is, is kind of the year that didn't happen. Yeah, sort of feels like kind of a year that bypass and then 2021. But and kind of was it in the midst of that that kind of inspiration for the book? 2:04 Yeah, that's a great question. I think we've all been kind of watching the news and listen to friends and folks and just saw those things coming together and actually tied back to some work I'd done in a doctoral program years ago and felt like, Hey, I think there's some alignment here. So I just wanted to sort of explore it and see if this could line up into something meaningful. 2:26 Yeah, I think it's such a timely message. Right, this idea of hope for unity and diversity. It's not homogeny. Right. It's, it's unity within the midst of diversity. Right. But we also I think, at the beginning, we have to hone in on the subtitle, because it's the thing that grabs you the most right how to be a Christian without being a jerk. 2:48 And so my question with that Derek is, and I mean, there may be multiple answers to that is when and how did those two things become synonymous and a lot of people's minds? Because I know they are actually. So like, when did that happen to that sneak up on us? Or has that been brewing for a while? And you know, we obviously have at least a public relations problem with that if those two terms are synonymous? Yeah. 3:14 Isn't that something? Yeah, I think a lot of us came to Christ, looking at our own weaknesses, and sin and so forth, and encountering Jesus and thinking, This is awesome. I've been forgiven and equipped to serve and love. And I'm, I'm part of the good here, you know, and there was a time our culture might have agreed with that. And then, you know, although we worship, a God of love, increasingly, forces in our culture, saying, Hey, we don't always experience Christians is all that loving. Yeah. And so, you know, maybe in our grief is we've lost some cultural prominence. Sometimes maybe our behavior in the eyes of others has looked like the behavior