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Rana Al-Falaki opens by telling Payman what she's still struggling with, even now: the gap between how put-together she looks from the outside and how much she still has to fight to let people see the rest of it. She joins him as a specialist periodontist and laser research pioneer who built two award-winning practices, sold them, and then rebuilt her entire career as a performance coach after her body forced the issue. The backstory is a lot. Her mother died of breast cancer when Rana was 24, a death she now ties directly to a lifetime of people-pleasing and swallowed stress. In her mid-twenties she moved in with a man who became physically and emotionally abusive, a relationship she couldn't find the strength to leave for years. By her late thirties, buried under a GDC complaint, a divorce and the demands of running two practices, her body gave out: a diagnosis of POTS, a condition that had already left other sufferers unable to walk, arrived at almost the same time as a quiet choice about which label she was going to wear. There's real clinical substance threaded through all of it too. Rana explains how she talked her way into becoming one of the first periodontists in the UK using erbium lasers for bone regeneration, entirely on instinct and with no studies to back her up, and how she eventually got the research published against a field she describes as deeply resistant to new ideas. She's just as direct about what it actually takes to build a referral practice patients and dentists both trust, and why building Breathe, a free wellbeing platform for the dental profession, became personal after a friend who introduced her to lasers died from an infection that followed a drinking spiral after his own GDC complaint.   In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:02:40 – What she still struggles with 00:05:00 – Spirituality and belief 00:15:00 – Why she became a dentist 00:21:30 – Losing her mother 00:34:30 – Grief, addiction and abuse 00:43:00 – Pitfalls of high performers 00:50:40 – Burnout and chronic illness 00:57:30 – Getting into lasers 01:12:20 – Building a referral practice 01:17:40 – Marriage and divorce 01:24:45 – The Nail It coaching system 01:32:40 – Launching Breathe 01:35:55 – Blackbox thinking 01:41:25 – Favourite lectures 01:46:15 – Fantasy dinner party   About Rana Al-Falaki Rana Al-Falaki is a specialist periodontist and laser research pioneer who built and later sold two award-winning periodontal practices in London. She is now a leadership and performance coach, the creator of the Nail It coaching system, and co-founder of Breathe, a free wellbeing platform for the dental profession.

Raid Ali arrived in Cardiff in 1998 because a friend told him it was cheaper than London, and never really left. He joins Payman as a specialist implantologist and founder of Restore Dental Group, a five-practice business built from the three practices he and two business partners bought from their old boss, having qualified in Baghdad in 1996 and sat his exams in the UK with no family connection to dentistry at all. He talks openly about ranking fourteenth in the whole of Iraq in his final school exams during wartime, about teaching himself English from scratch after arriving (he remembers struggling just to buy bread), and about the early advice from Chris Barrow that changed how he ran his business: stick to dentistry, delegate everything else. There's a genuinely candid account of his own clinical mistakes too, including an implant placed without enough restorative space, and six stressful months defending a legal claim over a mentee's work he wasn't even liable for. Raid also gets into the detail that's shaped his implant career: why he still refers every zygomatic case elsewhere despite being trained to do them, the French physiologist whose PRF technique changed how he thinks about healing, and why he now considers soft tissue, not implant design, the single most important factor in long-term success.   In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:01:50 – Arriving in Cardiff 00:03:50 – Growing up in Baghdad 00:13:45 – Choosing dentistry 00:19:30 – Moving to the UK 00:21:00 – Sitting the exams 00:25:35 – First impressions of UK dentistry 00:28:35 – Buying his first practice 00:35:40 – Getting into implants 00:38:55 – Mentors who changed his thinking 00:50:00 – Advice for new implantologists 01:04:00 – Growing to five practices 01:12:35 – Blackbox thinking 01:24:35 – What grinds his gears 01:38:40 – Fantasy dinner party   About Raid Ali Raid Ali is a specialist implantologist and founder of Restore Dental Group, a five-practice business based in Cardiff. Originally from Baghdad, he qualified in Iraq before moving to the UK in 1998, and now sits on the board of the Association of Dental Implantology, teaches an 18-day implant diploma, and co-founded the Iraqi Dental Community.

Jameel Gardee joins Payman to reflect on more than three decades in dentistry, from qualifying in Glasgow to undertaking advanced restorative training at Boston University and building a private practice centred on digital dentistry. He looks back on the people and experiences that shaped his career, why American dentistry changed his outlook, and how his approach to restorative treatment has evolved. The conversation also explores the pressures facing younger dentists, the value of mentorship and why becoming an excellent clinician takes more than technical ability. Much of the discussion centres on the shift from analogue to digital dentistry. Jameel breaks down the workflows behind modern smile design, from facial scanning and treatment planning to guided preparations, 3D printing and restorative materials. But there's a distinction he keeps coming back to: owning the latest technology means very little if you don't know how to bring it all together. The conversation also takes a more personal turn as Jameel reflects on difficult patients, clinical mistakes and the emotional weight of complaints. With AI and robotics changing the profession, he considers what the next generation of dentists will need to learn and why human connection may become more valuable than ever. Expect honest reflections on clinical excellence, digital workflows, patient trust, innovation, mentorship and the changing relationship between technology and the people delivering care. In This Episode 00:00:50 – From Glasgow to Boston 00:05:05 – American dentistry and clinical philosophy 00:09:05 – Mentorship and younger dentists 00:21:25 – Funding further education 00:24:35 – Private practice and patient trust 00:31:20 – Empowering the dental team 00:34:05 – Discovering digital dentistry 00:38:00 – Workflows over equipment 00:41:25 – The digital first visit 00:44:25 – Facially driven treatment planning 00:51:30 – Mock-ups and smile design 00:53:50 – Guided restorative dentistry 00:57:45 – 3D printing and zirconia 01:04:25 – Research versus clinical experience 01:10:00 – Technology and patient communication 01:16:10 – Robotics and the future 01:21:40 – Blackbox thinking 01:29:15 – Learning and clinical development 01:31:20 – Fantasy dinner party 01:35:45 – Life outside dentistry About Jameel Gardee Jameel Gardee is a Glasgow-based dentist and educator known for his work in digital dentistry, aesthetic restorations and smile design. After qualifying from the University of Glasgow in 1995, he undertook advanced restorative and aesthetic training at Boston University. He has since built a career combining private clinical practice with digital education, helping dentists and their teams adopt modern treatment planning and restorative workflows. Through his work with Avant Garde Dentistry, he continues to champion the use of technology to make complex dentistry more predictable and accessible.

Dental Leaders goes live from Dentown for a special compilation episode bringing together seven voices from across dentistry, design, technology, entrepreneurship and beyond. Across a series of conversations with Payman, Galip Gürel explores the move from pioneering veneer techniques to developing robotic tooth preparation, and why precision matters more than speed. Nazariy Mykhaylyuk reflects on microscope dentistry, perfectionism and continuing to practise and run businesses in Kyiv during wartime. Millie Morrison discusses finding her place in orthodontics, the responsibility of mentorship and overcoming the feeling that she needed to stay in her original clinical lane. Pouyan Mehdizadeh looks beyond conventional clinic design to the complete patient experience, exploring how architecture, branding, scent, sound, lighting and temperature can shape the way a space feels. Sahil Patel takes the conversation far outside the surgery with the story of climbing Everest, from the six-week commitment and extreme conditions to summit fever and the reality that reaching the top is only halfway home. Victoria Sampson shares the less glamorous reality behind building a fast-growing business, fundraising, clinical dentistry and trying not to burn out. Finally, Dentown founder Mehy Lo Presti joins Payman at the end of the event to reflect on two years of planning, building a world-class speaker line-up and his determination to create a different kind of dental event. Expect robotics, clinical excellence, mentorship, design, Everest, entrepreneurship, burnout and a behind-the-scenes look at the ideas shaping dentistry's next chapter. In This Episode00:00:50 - Galip Gürel00:19:10 - Nazariy Mykhaylyuk00:21:20 - Millie Morrison00:35:10 - Pouyan Mehdizadeh00:49:35 - Sahil Patel01:01:20 - Victoria Sampson01:12:25 - Mehy Lo Presti About the Speakers Galip Gürel is an internationally renowned aesthetic dentist and educator whose work has helped shape modern veneer dentistry. At Dentown, he discusses his move into dental robotics and the development of technology designed to bring greater precision and automation to tooth preparation. Nazariy Mykhaylyuk is known internationally for microscope-enhanced dentistry and advanced digital workflows. Based in Kyiv, he continues to practise, teach and run his businesses while living through the realities of war in Ukraine. Millie Morrison is a general dentist with a major clinical and educational focus on orthodontics. Alongside treating patients, she mentors other dentists in treatment planning, biomechanics and building confidence in their own clinical decision-making. Pouyan Mehdizadeh is an architect, creative director and experience designer whose work spans healthcare projects internationally. His approach extends beyond interiors to consider every element of how patients experience a healthcare brand and physical space. Sahil Patel is an accomplished cosmetic dentist and mountaineer who recently summited Mount Everest. His conversation explores the preparation, risk, psychology and extraordinary logistics behind taking on the world's highest mountain. Victoria Sampson is a dentist, researcher and entrepreneur known for her work around saliva diagnostics and the oral microbiome. She discusses building her testing business, fundraising, maintaining clinical practice and managing the intense workload that comes with pursuing several ambitions at once. Mehy Lo Presti is the founder of Dentown. After two years of planning, he brought together leading clinicians and thinkers for an event designed to challenge the traditional dental conference format through education, experience and community.

Kathryn Bell was seventeen, six months into a school exchange trip to Kentucky, when a minor car crash jolted loose a brain tumour nobody knew was there. She joins Payman as a general dentist at Colosseum Dental in Chippenham and the group's key opinion leader for facial aesthetics, having spent over two decades qualified after a start to adult life that involved an emergency craniotomy, a coma, meningitis and hydrocephalus, largely without her parents in the room. She talks with real clarity about survivor's guilt, about repeating a year at school rather than falling behind her friends, and about the internal motivation that got her through GCSEs with headaches nobody could explain, years before anyone found the tumour causing them. There's a second, quieter story running alongside it too: a burnout so complete she couldn't get out of bed most mornings on the NHS, and the daughter whose birth, entirely by coincidence, pulled her out of it just in time. Kathryn also gets specific about the actual craft of facial aesthetics: polynucleotides, why subtlety beats a dramatic result every time, and the patient with suspected body dysmorphia who brought her own fifty-times magnifying mirror to a review appointment.   In This Episode 00:00:45 – Introduction 00:01:45 – The brain tumour story 00:17:40 – Survivor's guilt 00:20:25 – Choosing dentistry 00:22:45 – Losing time at school 00:28:30 – Master's in aesthetic medicine 00:31:05 – Social media and dysmorphia 00:33:00 – Introducing facial aesthetics 00:40:00 – Skin treatments vs injectables 00:45:30 – A facial aesthetics mistake 00:56:20 – Women in dentistry 01:02:50 – A career mistake 01:09:55 – Burnout on the NHS 01:14:30 – Best lecture: Callum Youngson 01:19:35 – Fantasy dinner party   About Kathryn Bell Kathryn Bell is a general dentist at Colosseum Dental in Chippenham and the group's key opinion leader for facial aesthetics across its 80 practices. She holds an MSc in Aesthetic Medicine, researching how social media shapes aesthetic patients' self-perception, and survived a brain haemorrhage and tumour removal at the age of seventeen.

Dipali Dalia wanted to be a barrister at fourteen, became a periodontist instead, and then went back and trained as a barrister anyway, in her forties, while still practising three days a week. She joins Payman as a specialist periodontist at Emsworth Specialist Practice near Portsmouth, having qualified as a dentist, specialised in periodontics at Guy's, and then, nearly two decades into a successful referral practice, gone back to college to sit alongside twenty-somethings doing a law conversion course. She's honest about why the second career never quite happened. A scholarship from an Inn of Court, a year of criminal law that suited her better than the dry civil procedure rules, county court advocacy work to build experience, and still no pupillage by the time her father died of dementia at the end of a long, hardworking life. That loss changed everything, and Dipali talks with real clarity about the Hindu philosophy she leaned on afterwards, focused on the action rather than the outcome, and about coming back to periodontics with a settledness she didn't have before. Anyone considering the same leap gets something to work with too: referral relationships, the loneliness of the bar versus the immediacy of a dental chair, and Dipali's own conclusion that failure is better read as a redirect than a verdict on your worth.   In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:01:56 – Choosing dentistry over law 00:14:53 – Maxillofacial training 00:17:57 – Deciding to specialise 00:24:52 – Becoming a periodontist 00:28:12 – Referral relationships 00:34:47 – Peri-implantitis management 00:46:31 – The itch to become a barrister 00:52:17 – Training as a barrister in her 40s 01:00:17 – Comparing dentistry and law 01:10:27 – Losing her dad 01:17:56 – Failure as redirection 01:22:20 – A happier periodontist now 01:29:23 – Fantasy dinner party 01:38:08 – Women in dentistry and law   About Dipali Dalia Dipali Dalia is a specialist periodontist at Emsworth Specialist Practice near Portsmouth, having trained at Guy's after an early spell in maxillofacial surgery. In her forties, she trained part-time as a barrister, completing a law conversion course and the bar course while continuing to practise periodontics, before returning to dentistry full-time.

Bizhan Shokouhi didn't set out to be an oral surgeon, or even to specialise at all. He joins Payman as a specialist oral surgeon and implantologist working across private practice and Guy's Hospital, and teaching on the Bristol MSc in Implants, having spent his first year qualified convinced he'd end up a restorative dentist. He talks openly about the one thing he tells every trainee before they touch an implant, which has nothing to do with surgery and everything to do with communication, and about a denture case that took twenty-odd visits over eighteen months before he admitted defeat and referred it on. There's a genuinely reflective stretch on ambition too: Bizhan's own answer to whether he'd want his own practice is a flat no, and his reasoning, built around contentment rather than potential, runs against almost everything you'd expect from someone this good at his job. Along the way, there's proper technical detail on soft tissue management, bone grafting, and why the first five minutes of a surgery matter more than anything that happens with a suture. And by the end, Payman more or less names the episode for him: was it worth it?   In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:01:35 – A typical working week 00:04:20 – Becoming excellent 00:09:28 – Work-life balance 00:14:36 – Getting into implantology 00:21:00 – Communicating with patients 00:30:39 – Digital planning and AI 00:36:52 – Robots and the future 00:54:52 – Blackbox thinking 01:02:48 – Soft tissue lessons 01:05:11 – Building an Instagram following 01:12:04 – Mentors in implantology 01:14:44 – Why no practice of his own 01:19:59 – Best lecture: Martin Kelleher 01:22:36 – Fantasy dinner party   About Bizhan Shokouhi Bizhan Shokouhi is a specialist oral surgeon and implantologist working in private practice and at Guy's Hospital, and a tutor on the Bristol MSc in Implants. He is known for his educational Instagram content on oral surgery and soft tissue management, and previously trained in restorative dentistry and maxillofacial surgery before specialising.

Anita Pradan pulled her car onto the hard shoulder of the motorway one day, cried, took her laptop out of the boot, and typed her resignation. She joins Payman as founder of Phoenix Dental Academy, having spent years running herself into the ground managing someone else's education business before deciding to build her own. She talks openly about the exam that took her five years longer than expected, the practice interview where a principal offered her £1,500 a month and shouted at her for turning it down, and the gap between what overseas dentists post on Instagram and what they're actually going through once they arrive in the UK. There's a properly moving thread here about her father too, a maxillofacial surgeon who treated Nepal's royal family, and what it took for Anita to build something that was hers rather than his. Along the way, Anita gets specific about which countries produce the best-prepared dentists, why crown preps are the one part of the ORE exam that actually matters, and the impression material disaster in her very first week that she still uses to teach students today.   In This Episode 00:01:05 – Introduction 00:01:30 – What the ORE involves 00:07:05 – Therapist-led routes into the GDC 00:10:55 – Exploitation and bad contracts 00:16:55 – Social media versus reality 00:19:30 – Building Phoenix Dental Academy 00:24:35 – Leaving a toxic workplace 00:32:15 – Growing up in her father's shadow 00:38:15 – Teaching hands-on courses 00:45:00 – The gap between passing and practising 00:52:25 – Ambition without a partner 00:57:20 – A typical week 00:59:00 – Which countries produce the best dentists 01:10:45 – Blackbox thinking 01:22:50 – Fantasy dinner party   About Anita Pradan Anita Pradan is a Nepalese, Indian-trained dentist and founder of Phoenix Dental Academy, which prepares overseas dentists for the Overseas Registration Examination. She also teaches at the College of Medicine and Dentistry in Birmingham, part of Ulster University, and works one day a week as clinical lead for overseas clinicians within a dental group.

Ben Barter has never drilled a tooth in his life, but he's spent more time in dental events than most dentists. He joins Payman as co-founder of Dental Assembly, the latest venture in a career built entirely on getting corporates and suppliers into the same room, first at Open Rooms, then Dental Forum, and now running his own show. In between, there's a properly strange detour: a price comparison app for beauty products, built with zero knowledge of beauty or technology, launched into a global pandemic, and later pitched successfully on Dragons Den. Ben talks candidly about what actually convinces an investor to back two people with no relevant experience, and the gut feeling he ignored right before a bus full of a hundred people failed to turn up in Dubai. There's a decent amount of shop talk here too, on why fun is a business strategy rather than an afterthought, and why splitting an event by practice size might be the most underrated idea in dental networking right now.   In This Episode 00:00:45 – Introduction 00:01:00 – Life running dental events 00:09:45 – Getting into events 00:12:55 – Lessons from Open Rooms 00:15:45 – Starting Skin during Covid 00:21:15 – Going on Dragons Den 00:26:20 – Raising money for the first time 00:28:30 – Launching Dental Assembly 00:33:00 – Structuring the events 00:37:35 – Why fun matters 00:48:45 – Touchpoints beyond the event 00:50:55 – Blackbox thinking 01:01:45 – Favourite resource and book 01:04:40 – Fantasy dinner party 01:08:05 – Growing up and life outside events   About Ben Barter Ben Barter is co-founder of Dental Assembly, an events business connecting dental groups with suppliers, and previously spent nine years at Open Rooms and Dental Forum. He also co-founded Skin, a price comparison app for beauty products that secured investment on Dragons Den, before returning to dental events full time.

Bashar Alturk has represented two countries at trampolining — Great Britain, then Jordan — and ruptured both his knees doing it, a year apart, once right before finals. He's also a final-year dental student at Leeds who bought his own phantom head and drill and set them up in his student room because the university wouldn't give him enough practice time. His ADHD diagnosis came late on purpose. His mum spotted it in primary school and refused to let it be labelled, worried about what that label would do to him; he didn't get assessed properly until Covid forced the question. He now credits the delay with making him work harder rather than lean on an excuse. There's a loupes business in here too, run out of that same student room, undercutting the market on price until his own dental school shut it down over a GDC conduct issue. And there's a longer, harder conversation about faith: what he actually believes about suffering and reasons, tested properly the first time his knee gave out weeks before an Olympic cycle. Payman keeps circling one question throughout: what happens when you take the "sink or swim" mentality that built an Olympic athlete and try to run a dental career on it too.   In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:02:10 – Growing up in Manchester 00:06:40 – Getting into trampolining 00:11:53 – ADHD diagnosis 00:18:35 – Injuries and setbacks 00:33:00 – Sacrifice and family 00:41:52 – Faith and meaning 00:46:25 – The phantom head 00:48:28 – The loupes business 01:02:41 – Delegation 01:11:56 – Wanting to be known 01:19:36 – Choosing a path 01:20:41 – Blackbox thinking 01:29:47 – Fantasy dinner party 01:36:57 – Post-competition blues   About Bashar Alturk Bashar Alturk is a final-year dental student at the University of Leeds and an Olympic-level trampolinist, having represented both Great Britain and Jordan internationally. Alongside his studies, he founded a student loupes company, served as president of his dental society, and helped organise one of the UK's largest undergraduate dental conferences.

Afzal Haque joins Payman as a specialist endodontist and owner of Stretford Road Dental Practice, along with its referral clinic M41 Indo, in South Manchester, having spent ten years as a general dentist before making the switch. He talks candidly about hating endodontics as a young dentist, the wife who talked him into rotary instrumentation and then, years later, into selling their house to fund three years of specialist training in Liverpool. There's a properly moving stretch on the sacrifice that decision demanded of his young family, and on the culture of fear he encountered as an undergraduate that still shapes how he teaches today. This is also a masterclass in referral dentistry: building trust with generalists, pricing endodontic treatment simply, and why the happiest dentists are the ones who communicate well rather than the ones who never make mistakes. Expect sharp thinking on bioceramics, root canal myths, AI in the surgery, and a properly honest account of growing up as the only brown kid in his primary school class.   In This Episode 00:00:45 – Introduction 00:02:10 – Family background and choosing dentistry 00:13:30 – Falling into endodontics 00:15:50 – Selling the house for specialist training 00:22:55 – Why endo suits him better than general dentistry 00:28:25 – Building a referral-based practice 00:40:45 – Team, AI and running the practice 00:45:35 – Endo heroes and technique 00:59:15 – Bioceramics and modern materials 01:01:50 – Root canal myths and AI search 01:08:45 – Toxic teaching culture 01:15:50 – Specialist training and family sacrifice 01:24:05 – Blackbox thinking 01:35:25 – Robots and the future of dentistry 01:38:15 – Fantasy dinner party and growing up in Manchester   About Afzal Haque Afzal Haque is a specialist endodontist and owner of Stretford Road Dental Practice and its referral clinic, M41 Indo, in South Manchester. He spent ten years as a general dentist before training as an endodontist at the University of Liverpool, and now also works as a senior lecturer at UCLan and as a specialist adviser for the CQC.

Patrycja Galonzka joins Payman as business manager at Aspire Smiles in Warwick, having worked her way up from trainee dental nurse to the top of the practice after moving to the UK from Poland at nineteen. She talks candidly about the loss that pushed her to stay in the UK rather than go home, and how years spent as a barista and waitress taught her more about handling people than any qualification could. This is also a masterclass in practice culture: Patrycja walks through her own Caesar framework for running a team, why "anti-values" like blame and gossip do more damage than any missing policy, and why she'd rather build a team like a sports squad than a family. Expect sharp, practical thinking on KPIs, AI in the day-to-day of a practice, and why taking the blame for everything that goes wrong might be the happiest way to lead.   In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:01:50 – From Poland to dental nursing 00:09:00 – Ambition, patience and advice to her daughter 00:12:00 – Awards and ego 00:17:00 – Finding your why 00:19:00 – Anti-values and team culture 00:22:00 – The Caesar framework 00:35:00 – Empowerment and learning from mistakes 00:48:00 – KPIs that matter 00:52:00 – AI in the practice 01:01:00 – Robots and the future of dentistry 01:07:00 – Alternative business models 01:21:00 – Blackbox thinking 01:26:00 – Time management, boundaries and the five-year vision   About Patrycja Galonzka Patrycja Galonzka is business manager at Aspire Smiles in Warwick, having progressed there from trainee dental nurse through lead nurse and practice manager. She moved to the UK from Poland at nineteen, is the creator of the Caesar leadership framework, and now runs her own consulting business helping dental teams build stronger culture and systems alongside her practice role.

Agne Malisauskiene joins Payman as the clinical lead at the Baltic Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry and one of the world's best-known minimally invasive composite teachers, having trained thousands of dentists from her purpose-built facility in Vilnius. She talks candidly about swapping punishing NHS-style hours in Lithuania for a much gentler introduction to UK private dentistry, and how a year at a US military boarding school as a teenager shaped the discipline and leadership instincts she still relies on today. This is also a conversation about ambition and what it costs. From the competitive streak that pushed her toward the hardest degree to get into, to the guilt and logistics of teaching abroad most weekends while raising two young boys, Agne is refreshingly honest about the trade-offs behind a career built on repetition, pattern recognition and constant travel. Expect sharp reflections on gender and ambition in dental education, why composite bonding took off early in Lithuania, and a clinical mistake that changed how she treats every tooth since. In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:02:40 – Building the Vilnius teaching facility 00:11:57 – Moving to the UK 00:18:27 – Boarding school in America 00:30:57 – Family background and choosing dentistry 00:39:41 – Ambition, competitiveness and sacrifice 00:46:47 – Family life and growing up in Soviet-era Lithuania 00:53:12 – A typical teaching week and travel logistics 01:02:32 – Joining Biomimetic 01:07:33 – Gender, ambition and teaching 01:15:53 – Filming through the loupe camera 01:22:47 – Blackbox thinking 01:26:32 – Favourite resource: Layers 2 01:30:27 – Fantasy dinner party About Agne Malisauskiene Agne Malisauskiene is an internationally recognised minimally invasive direct composite expert and the clinical lead at the Baltic Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry in Vilnius, where she trains dentists from around the world. She is a member of Biomimetic and Enlighten's distributor in Lithuania, and splits her time between her own patients and a busy international lecturing schedule.

Shyun Patel joins Payman as a final-year dental student at Liverpool, best known for founding BDSA, the biggest undergraduate dental conference the UK has seen, and for buying his own practice before he's even qualified. He talks candidly about losing the Dental Society presidency election, the autoimmune diagnosis that reshaped how he thinks about time, and the fridge-flipping side hustle that helped fund his first practice. This is also a conversation about ambition and its cost. From the cathedral gamble that saved BDSA's gala dinner to the balance between depth and breadth of impact, Shyun's reflections on business are as sharp as his reflections on himself. Expect thoughtful exchanges on hubris, communication as a clinical skill, sacrifice, and what it means to build something at 23 that most people wait decades to attempt. In This Episode 00:00:50 – Introduction 00:01:30 – Growing up in Liverpool 00:06:14 – Communication vs skill 00:08:36 – Teaching communication 00:14:00 – Public misconceptions 00:22:38 – Hubris 00:22:52 – Insecurity and upbringing 00:32:57 – Losing DentSoc presidency 00:41:20 – Autoimmune diagnosis 00:50:07 – Building a dating app 00:58:00 – Business by osmosis 01:01:26 – The value of asking 01:04:32 – Scale of BDSA 01:07:26 – Funding BDSA 01:17:07 – Leadership and delegation 01:21:00 – Sales and sponsorship 01:25:10 – The cathedral gamble 01:29:47 – The fridge hustle 01:41:07 – Ambition and sacrifice 01:47:43 – Blackbox thinking 01:52:41 – Clinical vs business 01:59:35 – Depth vs breadth 02:01:11 – Heroes and resources 02:05:29 – Fantasy dinner party 02:07:31 – Five-year vision About Shyun Patel Shyun Patel is a final-year dental student at the University of Liverpool and the founder of BDSA, the largest undergraduate dental conference staged in the UK to date. Alongside his studies he already owns a dental practice, works as a dental rep for Bryant, and is building a compatibility-focused dating app in his spare time.

Two CareStack men, one origin story that starts in a Covid ward. Adrian Dray talks Payman through the lead-management deal that nearly bankrupted him, and how that near-miss set him up to bring an American cloud practice management system into a UK market that, by his own admission, "really dislikes change." Kautham Haran, the ops brain to Adrian's front-of-house energy, explains how a fintech Start-Up background prepared him for the mess of onboarding whole dental groups onto new software. Between them they cover why CareStack bet big on a market the size of Oregon, what Rory Sutherland taught them about friction and the "doorman fallacy," and why AI receptionists might be dentistry's answer to the hoverboard fire hazard. It's a conversation about building a company from scratch inside an industry built on habit, and what happens to your ego when the whole thing goes a bit public and a bit personal. In This Episode 00:01:00 - Introductions 00:01:35 - Covid and crisis 00:07:25 - Meeting Abby 00:11:25 - Kautham's fintech past 00:14:15 - The leadership trio 00:16:00 - Opportunity, defined 00:23:10 - Cracking the UK 00:31:55 - Straumann and strategy 00:36:35 - Built-in payment plans 00:39:55 - Onboarding challenges 00:44:55 - Surprises in dentistry 00:50:25 - Software's weak spot 00:54:50 - Regulation as moat 00:56:20 - Shaking up events 01:03:55 - Rory's insights 01:14:15 - Voice Stack AI 01:17:45 - AI receptionist risks 01:22:45 - Blackbox thinking 01:32:25 - Fantasy dinner party 01:40:55 - Closing thoughts About Adrian Dray and Kautham Haran Adrian Dray is director of demand generation at CareStack, a cloud-based dental practice management system, having previously worked as a data protection officer within dentistry. Kautham Haran is CareStack's head of implementation, joining from a peer-to-peer invoice finance Start-Up he co-founded straight out of the University of Warwick. Together they lead CareStack's UK operation alongside Shamanth, their head of customer success.