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Everyone talks about slaying bureaucracy and cutting organizational sludge but there's an equally pernicious force that doesn't get nearly enough airtime: the organizational debt created by too little structure. The chaos tax is real, and it's usually being paid by everyone except the person creating it. In this episode, Rodney and Sam unpack the founder-led chaos pattern: why it happens, why it feels like speed to the person at the top while feeling like paralysis to everyone else, and what minimum viable process actually looks like in practice. They get into learned helplessness, productive friction, the hidden cost of unilateral decisions, and why the call for structure will probably have to come from outside the house. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: "Sparticus Merlin Spurlin": Check-In from AWWTR Ep. 45/2 Organizational debt Founder mode episode: AWWTR Ep. 22 RACI: AWWTR Ep. 10 participatory meeting structure: BNW Ep. 49 with Keith McCandless consent vs consensus: BNW Ep. 74 with Ted Rau The Ready's Proposal Template Action Meeting episode: BNW Ep. 80 The Ready's OS Canvas 00:00 Intro + Check-In: If you could hang out with any cartoon character, who would it be? 04:08 The Pattern: Lack of structure leads to chaos 05:56 Founders mistake their experience for everyone’s experience 11:49 Growth is unavoidable for diversity of thinking 15:53 You have to choose your slow 18:33 Example of consent 24:56 Chaotic orgs are brittle orgs 25:56 Cycle of learned helplessness and founder paranoia 28:49 Chaos glorifies unsustainable heroic behavior 33:05 Making a system where the founder doesn’t have to “be the savior” 35:50 Preserving the essential friction to good work 39:57 Idea 1: Minimum viable operating rhythm 42:38 Idea 2: Get external coaching for the founder/leader 44:49 Idea 3: Make work more visible and public 47:01 Wrap up: Leave us a review and send us your questions! Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

As AI handles more and more of the actual work, a genuinely hard question emerges: how do you maintain shared purpose when there's no single organization anchoring it? In this mini AUA, Rodney and Sam argue that more automation requires more intentional human connection, not less — and that AI might actually force a long-overdue shift from obsessing over outputs to talking about outcomes and purpose. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Most leaders want to believe they're building something durable: a company that matters, a culture that sticks, a system people can rely on. But what if most organizations don't have the staying power of a great city like Venice...and instead are more like a gold rush town? What if that same company is more likely to change you than you are to change it? In this episode, Sam sits down with John Cutler, writer of The Beautiful Mess and Head of Product at Dotwork, to pull on the threads John has been obsessively following for years: how organizations actually work, why seeing patterns and being able to act on them are completely different skills, how leadership is like game design, and why embracing the mess might be smarter than chasing clarity. Learn more about John and Dotwork: Read his newsletter On LinkedIn Dotwork -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Dr. Cat Hicks John's post about "the slide" W. Edwards Deming "Hollow Knight and Silksong" John's post with Tom Kerwin Ashby's Law of Requisite Variety This Beautiful Mess (the emo band) John's old Medium posts North Star Framework Team Topologies, book by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What was your first job and did you learn anything from it that you still use today? 02:34 Finding your organizational trigger words 08:41 Can you really change your company? 11:12 Most companies are more like gold rush towns than lasting institutions 15:26 Finding joy at work when the company won't love you back 18:29 Every leader is a game designer 21:45 Stepping back and seeing the system 27:55 Why chasing clarity at work might be the wrong goal 33:20 Having all the data and asking the wrong questions 35:34 How Dotwork is rethinking organizational strategy tools 40:42 Building flexible operating systems that leaders will actually use 44:14 Building a generalist career in a specialist world 50:21 Leave us a review and share the show with a friend Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

You've done the hard work. Your team cracked the code on a new process/workflow/policy/design, your ways of working are genuinely better, and now...everyone else is actively uninterested. It's infuriating, and also completely predictable. In this mini AUA, Rodney and Sam unpack why good ideas don't automatically spread in federated structures, from classic Not Invented Here syndrome to the underappreciated truth that you can't export a finished experience and skip the struggle. They make the case for becoming an internal consultant rather than an evangelist — offering scaffolding, not superiority. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Compensation is where human psychology and organizational systems collide—and in Part 1, Rodney and Sam named why it so often turns into a hedonic treadmill: every lever you pull to reduce dissatisfaction tends to raise expectations and create new dissatisfaction. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, start there for the “why this is so messy” foundation. In Part 2, Rodney and Sam move from diagnosis to design: what principles should a compensation system actually be built on—and what do you do next? They walk through practical comp first principles and explore concrete moves teams can experiment with—like simplifying comp, reducing negotiation, and creating healthier feedback loops. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: ⁠"previous comp episode": AWWTR Ep. 45, Part 1 "JEDI": BNW Ep. 40 with Sharan Bal "Midnight Zone": Depthfinding Miniseries BNW Ep. 6 with Joel Gascoigne BNW Ep. 36 with Nathan Barry BNW Ep. 84 with David Buckmaster BNW Ep. 89 with Nikki Kaufman 00:00 Intro: What Would You Rename Yourself? 03:26 Comp Principle #1: Pay and Human Dignity 07:21 Comp Principle #2: Pay Equity at Work 10:06 Comp Principle #3: Salary Clarity and Transparency 15:56 Comp Principle #4: Collective Alignment on Pay 19:04 Comp Principle #5: Employee Participation in Pay Decisions 21:47 Comp Principles #6 & #7: Simplicity and Talking About Pay Less 24:12 Redesign Idea #1: Anonymous Team Rewards Ranking 25:48 Redesign Idea #2: Eliminating Salary Negotiation 28:03 Redesign Idea #3: Interview Elsewhere to Reset Pay Expectations 29:38 Redesign Idea #4: Create Transparency for Employees 32:44 Outro: Rate the Podcast + Share At Work With The Ready Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Small doesn't mean simple. In fact, smaller organizations are often more complex in the ways that are hardest to manage — personalities loom larger, every conversation carries more weight, and the line between "business problem" and interpersonal drama gets uncomfortably thin. In this mini AUA, Rodney and Sam break down why smaller orgs typically need to install minimum viable structure to tame the chaos — while larger orgs are usually trying to remove it. Same toolkit, opposite motion. They also explore the quiet inflection point that hits somewhere under 50 people, when "everyone knows everything" suddenly stops being true and no one quite knows what to do about it. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: "strategy": AWWTR Ep. 2 "principles-based budgeting" Dunbar's number -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Compensation is one of the messiest parts of any organization. Pay becomes a proxy for belonging, validation, performance, identity, and status… which means it’s almost guaranteed to feel unfair, confusing, and emotionally loaded. Layer on a capitalist “more is always better” mindset, and you get the hedonic treadmill of work: every raise increases expectations, which creates the next round of dissatisfaction. In Part 1 of this two-part series on compensation, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin dig into why comp is so psychologically charged, why most systems are overly complex, and why the “objective” company lens will never fully match the lived human experience of money. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: baby hyenas hedonic treadmill performance management episode: AWWTR Ep. 39 "authority field": The Ready's OS Canvas FAANG (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google) aka "Big Tech" EOT (Employee-Owned Trust) 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s the best animal you’ve seen recently? 04:07 The pattern: No level of compensation ever feels like enough. 10:17 Comp becomes a proxy for self-worth 14:16 Setting individual comp levels 23:23 Importance of real pay transparency, not “bands” 27:24 Comp “up and to the right” ignores market value 31:25 Setting team-level comp and rewards 36:04 Shared rewards vs Hunger Games for sales teams 38:29 Is equity a good thing…or a trap? 46:09 Wrap Up: Continued next time in part 2 Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

AI pressure is landing squarely on Learning & Development teams. Execs want “future skills”…yesterday. The tension? How do you stop churning out more courses and start building real capabilities in the age of AI? In this AUA mini episode, Rodney and Sam share the first moves they’d make if they were leading L&D right now. From getting hands-on with workflow automation tools to shifting from tool training toward systems thinking and experimentation, they outline how L&D can move from reactive skill provider to strategic capability builder. Want to build skills like this to help your team succeed in 2026? Learn about our Capability Catalyst program: https://hubs.la/Q040ccYF0 -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: recent change skills episode: AWWTR Ep. 42 Relay n8n Ethan Mollick Greg Shove: AWWTR Ep. 41 Scott Galloway Chase Adams EvolvingAI Morning Brew -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Most org design conversations get forced through a narrow funnel: prove the ROI, justify the spend, make the numbers work. But if work is something most people can’t opt out of—and where we spend a huge chunk of our attention and waking lives—then “it pays off” feels like a painfully small standard. This week, Rodney and Sam explore the ethical case for organizational design. They move beyond spreadsheets and profit metrics to ask bigger questions about leadership, power, transparency, compensation, and the human impact of broken systems. What do organizations owe the people who work inside them? Is better workplace design a moral responsibility — not just a financial strategy? -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: r/antiwork Mihaly Csikzentmihalyi and Flow Target CEO comp package (note: New CEO’s comp package is roughly $16m, vs over $70m for the prior CEO in 2020) triple bottom line John Rawls and A Theory of Justice 00:00 Check-In: What’s your energy like right now? 04:04 Divorcing doing what’s “good work” from ROI 08:16 A “good” experience is the exception rather than the rule 10:06 Protecting yourself isn’t “selling out” 15:41 Spending our attention on worthy things 21:35 Leadership vs. worker power disparity is broken 27:31 Ethically designed companies never are publicly traded 31:07 Principles and values of ethical orgs 40:35 Joy at work shouldn’t be nickled and dimed 44:35 Idea 1: Don’t accept performative change initiatives 47:17 Idea 2: Audit your existing principles and values 48:35 Idea 3: Don’t let leadership gaslight you into conforming 50:33 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with a friend Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

When the people at the center of power feel well-served by the current system, how do you create change? This week’s listener question gets at a frustrating reality: sometimes the OS is optimized for the very people you’d need to convince. The business is growing, shareholders are happy, and the executives at the top don’t feel the friction you’re experiencing. Add geography, hierarchy, and distance from decision-makers, and it can feel impossible to generate momentum from the edges. In this mini AUA episode, Rodney and Sam get honest about what’s actually within your control, and when it’s worth accepting that you won’t move the center—and when it’s smarter to redirect your energy toward the surface area you can influence. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Most organizations are built to do exactly what they do…and that’s the problem. When a core business starts to decay due to disruption, automation, or shifting customer demand, the instinct is to double down on efficiency, cost cutting, and short-term fixes. But that focus often crowds out the harder, riskier work of building what comes next. Nearly a decade ago, Dual Transformation offered a clear and compelling framework for this dilemma, yet nobody seems to be actually doing it. In this episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin unpack why dual transformations are so rare, why it’s even harder than it sounds, and why it matters more than ever in an AI-shaped economy. They dig into the tensions between “business A” (the core) and “business B” (the future), the funding and operating system traps that kill new growth, and practical moves leaders and internal change agents can make to actually pull of two transformations at once instead of just talking about it. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Type One vs Type Two fun Enneagram 7: AWWTR Ep. 33 with Liz Orr Ulysses (book) Dual Transformation (book) Clayton Christensen and disruptive innovation taxi and uber disruption Eisenhower matrix "Squirrel" Sam's manifesto 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s some type two fun you’ve had recently? 04:29 What is Dual Transformation and why now? 13:27 Sounds simple, yet deceptively hard 21:05 The 3 crisis points of a dual transformation 27:12 Recognizing when you’re in a dying business 30:57 Engineering a dual transformation from the inside out 37:24 Navigating the emotions of the dying business 39:14 Idea 1: Weekly feedback routines with customers 43:07 Idea 2: Import as little as possible from the old company 45:59 Idea 3: Write the manifesto for both businesses 47:29 Bonus Idea: Read Dual Transformation! 48:26 Wrap up Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

While many organizations claim they’re cutting red tape, the underlying drivers often look more like cost pressure, market correction, or AI anxiety dressed up as structural reform. In this mini episode, Rodney and Sam unpack the recent wave of layoffs framed as efforts to “reduce bureaucracy”—and why that explanation deserves some skepticism. They explore when reducing org depth can be the right move, why boom-and-bust hiring cycles create hidden work, and what companies would actually do differently if bureaucracy reduction were the real goal. Mentioned references: layoffs at Amazon layoffs in consulting layoffs at UPS "org debt" Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected] -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Want to build skills like this to help your team succeed in 2026? ⁠Learn about our Capability Catalyst program⁠. Enterprise change is getting harder, not easier—and in 2026, “having the right ideas” isn’t enough to move transformation. You need personal capability that lets you see what’s really happening, design with real users, and move groups through hard conversations without turning everything into theater. Good intentions and smart frameworks may have worked in the past, but what got us here won’t get us where we need to go. In this episode, Rodney and Sam dive deep on the three most useful transformation enabling skills for the coming year, and share practical ways for how to level up your capability toolkit to thrive in our current pace of change. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Sam's teaching metacognition Bloom's taxonomy "MG" - McChrystal Group situational awareness "the balcony" The Mom Test The Future of HR Matt Basford "business model fit chart" "Henry Ford quote" Liberating Structures 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s good right now? 04:09 The Pattern 05:49 Skill 1: Metacognitive awareness 10:16 Reframing your interactions and experiences 15:57 Building your metacognition skills 21:05 Skill 2: User-Centered Design and Feedback 28:45 User feedback is not a one time activity 34:34 Skill 3: Expert facilitation 39:39 Real skilled facilitation is mostly invisible 43:03 Lots of work happens outside the room 50:08 Leveling up as a facilitator 52:30 Wrap up: Leave the show a review and share with a friend Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Starting a company with a blank slate sounds like a dream—but it’s also a trap. In this mini episode, Rodney and Sam respond to a listener question about how to design an organizational operating system from scratch, without inheriting all the baggage of traditional management. They argue for resisting the urge to over-design early, letting real tension (not theory) drive structure, and focusing on a few foundational practices that scale. From operating rhythms and Kanban boards to experimentation and “sky sensing,” this episode breaks down what’s actually worth putting in place early—and what’s better left until it hurts. Mentioned references: "op rhythm": BNW Ep. 118 "strategy": AWWTR Ep. 2 "experimentation": AWWTR Ep. 38 "retrospectives": BNW Ep. 10 with Jordan Husney Kanban board The Ready's Experiment Proposal Template "The Sky" from Depthfinding Mia Wise Schedule a Sky Session with us! Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected] -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Enterprise AI adoption is still stuck in the teens and the gap between the hype and the reality is getting harder to ignore. People are finding pockets of productivity, but they’re often keeping the gains to themselves, worried that “using AI well” is just speed-running their way into a layoff. Meanwhile, many leaders treat it like another piece of software without touching the messier truth: AI changes how work actually happens, and it doesn’t care about your org chart, your approval chains, or your performance theater. In this episode, Rodney sits down with Section CEO Greg Shove to name what’s really blocking adoption and what it takes to break through. They talk about AI as “co-intelligence”, why most “AI layoffs” are PR cover, and the non-negotiables for real transformation. They also get into how to build a robust AI strategy for 2026, Section’s own AI disruption, and why the next era may be dominated by super companies built around small human teams + a fleet of agents. Learn more about Greg: His website Section's website Prof.AI AI Truth Serum podcast -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Edelman's AI creators Chegg's downfall Moderna's AI usage Zapier's AI usage BOX's AI usage Dual Transformation Skunk Works Mary Barra "amazon.bomb" Stanford AI study 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s something happening in the AI hype cycle that drives you nuts right now? 03:21 Enterprise AI adoption stall out 08:58 AI as truth serum for lies in your company 11:49 Required ingredients for real AI transformation 19:04 Balancing risk with AI usage in startups and large enterprise 24:10 “Head of AI” roles are an uphill battle 27:48 First principles for an AI-lead organization 30:10 Disrupting your business model with AI and dual transformation 35:29 Greg and Section disrupting themselves with AI 37:44 Role of leadership in an AI future 44:40 Future of companies and careers 47:54 Role of companies in future of society 52:07 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with a coworker! Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.