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★★★★★

4.9

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ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Doeren Mayhew's Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth explain the process of the ESOP transaction and address ESOPs from a business owner's perspective. They illuminate the simplicity of ESOPs and debunk common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated. -- “Doeren Mayhew" is the brand name under which Doeren Mayhew Assurance and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC and its subsidiary entities provide professional services. Doeren Mayhew Assurance and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC (and its subsidiary entities) practice as an alternative practice structure in accordance with the AICPA Code of Professional Conduct and applicable law, regulations and professional standards. Doeren Mayhew Assurance is a licensed independent CPA firm that provides attest services to its clients, and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC and its subsidiary entities provide tax and business consulting services to their clients. Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC, DM Payroll Solutions, Doeren Mayhew Capital Advisors and their subsidiary entities are not licensed CPA firms.

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Check latest episodes from Journey to an ESOP & Beyond podcast

EP16 - Financial Literacy and Employee Ownership

2026/04/16

In recognition of April as Financial Literacy Month, this episode explores an important question: what happens when employees are given ownership but don’t fully understand its value? Jason and Makenzie dive into the critical role financial literacy plays in helping employee-owners make the most of their ownership stake. From understanding equity to building confidence in financial decision-making, this conversation highlights how empowering employees with knowledge can unlock the full potential of employee ownership.

EP15 - The Right First Question

2026/04/10

What’s the right first question when an owner starts exploring an ESOP? It may not be “Can my company do one?” In this episode, we unpack why technical possibility and strategic fit are not the same thing. Using the metaphor of the kitchen in a family home, we explore what owners are really trying to preserve, strengthen, and pass on through transition — and why an ESOP works best when it supports the fundamentals rather than distracting from them. A thoughtful conversation for owners considering employee ownership, succession, continuity, and legacy.

EP14 - Foundations of Transition- Communication, Culture & Trust

2026/04/03

In this episode of the Foundations of Transition series, Jason and Makenzie focus on the theme of Communication, Culture & Trust, exploring how these elements shape the success of an ESOP transaction. Each workshop-style conversation in this series is designed to help business owners think more intentionally about the future of their company and the role they play in shaping it. This episode encourages owners to consider not just the structure of a transition, but the human side of the process. Jason and Makenzie discuss why clear communication, a healthy company culture, and strong trust between leadership and employees are essential to building momentum and confidence throughout an ESOP journey. Through practical insights, they unpack how intentional communication and cultural alignment can reduce uncertainty and help create a smoother, more successful transition for everyone involved.

EP13 - What Could Go Wrong?

2026/03/27

This week, Jason and Makenzie cover what could go wrong in an ESOP transaction. From concerns about overpaying for shares to the burden of debt service, unrealistic projections, and the momentum that can build during negotiations, this episode unpacks the risks that can make an ESOP feel “off track” and what causes those outcomes. Jason and Makenzie explore the difference between a deal that is truly broken and one that simply needs course correction, offering an honest look at the warning signs, human dynamics, and importance of sustainable structure.

EP12 - Step-by-Step Guide to an ESOP Transaction

2026/03/20

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie walk listeners through the step-by-step process of an ESOP transaction, breaking down what can often feel like a complex and overwhelming journey into a clear, approachable roadmap. They cover common questions business owners often ask at the start of the process, including: How do I know if my company is a good fit for an ESOP? and who should be involved? From evaluating readiness to understanding the key players involved, Jason and Makenzie share practical insights on who to engage first, what steps to expect, and how to navigate the early stages of exploring employee ownership with confidence.

EP11 - The Job That Gets Harder

2026/03/16

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie explore what is often one of the most challenging roles in an ESOP transition: frontline management. Immediately after a transition to employee ownership, frontline managers often take on the greatest level of responsibility as they help employees navigate change while keeping the business moving forward. Jason and Makenzie unpack six key threads that can help frontline managers better support their teams and guide the company through a successful transition.

EP10 - Foundations of Transition- Strategic Direction

2026/03/06

In this episode of the Foundations of Transition Series, Jason and Makenzie focus on the theme of Strategic Direction, asking the critical question: What direction are we moving in, and how are we getting there? Each workshop-style conversation in this series is designed to help business owners think more intentionally about the future of their company and the role they play in shaping it. This episode challenges owners to step back and “look up” from the day-to-day demands of running a business to look ahead. Jason and Makenzie discuss why better questions lead to better strategy, and how defining what you hope to gain from the future of the company can lead to a plan that is both realistic and effective. Through practical insights, they explore how thoughtful strategic direction creates clarity, momentum, and a path forward for both the owner and the organization.

EP9 - Interview with Steve Thornton and Eric Harris of Monte Sano Research Corporation

2026/02/28

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie sit down with Steve Thornton and Eric Harris of Monte Sano Research Corporation (MSRC) to discuss the company’s evolution to employee ownership. They reflect on their company’s journey to an ESOP and how succession was intentionally embodied well before the formal transition, and the cultural foundations that made ESOP alignment a natural fit. The conversation also explores how employee ownership can bridge founders to successors, along with candid advice for leaders considering this path, including preparation, key decisions, and lessons learned along the way.

EP8 - How Every Employee Can Create Enterprise Value in an ESOP

2026/02/20

In this episode, Makenzie and Jason explore how any employee—regardless of title or department—can contribute to creating enterprise value in an employee-owned company. They break down practical strategies to drive growth, increase profitability, and contribute to long-term company value. Whether you’re in sales, accounting, operations, or any other department, learn how your role connects to the bigger financial picture. Discover how ESOP employees can leverage their strengths, act like owners, and impact the company’s bottom line. This conversation will challenge you to think and act like an owner.

EP7 - Understanding Equity Beyond Money: Business, ESOPs, and Ownership

2026/02/13

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie discuss the true meaning of equity, beyond financial payouts. They break down equity in terms of fairness, company ownership, home equity, and long-term value, and explain the responsibilities, risks, and mindset that come with owning equity. Learn how equity represents control, alignment, risk distribution, and strategic planning — key concepts for business owners, ESOP participants, and employees with a stake in their company. Whether you’re looking to understand ESOPs, employee ownership, or equity in business, this episode provides practical insights into why having a stake matters and how it shapes decision-making and culture.

EP6 - Foundations of Transition - Courageous Leadership

2026/02/05

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie continue “The Foundations of Transition” series by highlighting the courage it takes to transition a company and its leadership. Each workshop-style episode builds on the last, offering practical guidance to help business owners move forward with confidence. This second foundation emphasizes the key components of a well-crafted transition plan, showing leaders how to confidently prioritize long-term growth over fear-driven decisions. Jason and Makenzie discuss how intentional planning, clear direction, and courageous decision-making can shape a successful future for both owners and their organizations.

EP5 - The Class You Didn’t Know You were Taking: Navigating Business Transitions

2026/01/30

In this episode, Jason Miller explores the unsettling feeling of being enrolled in a college class you never signed up for — and suddenly realizing you are expected to know the subject matter. The fear and overwhelm hit hard. For many business owners, that is exactly what business succession planning and ESOP transitions can feel like. He explains how that anxiety often stems from delayed awareness, not a lack of effort or responsibility. Jason reframes what “readiness” really means — not mastery or having all the answers, but awareness and orientation. By recognizing the “class” early and naming what truly matters, business owners can navigate succession planning, employee stock ownership plan (ESOP) transitions, and long-term exit planning with greater clarity, confidence, and control.

EP4 - Interview with Pete Shuler of Blue Ridge Associates

2026/01/26

What truly drives a successful ESOP transaction? In this episode, Jason Miller sits down with Pete Schuler, Senior Vice President and Head of Consulting at Blue Ridge, to share insights from more than 30 years of specialized ESOP advisory and consulting experience. A trusted advisor on ESOP transactions and compliance, Pete has worked with companies across every stage of the ESOP lifecycle. Together, he and Jason explore the key “R’s” of an ESOP transaction, highlighting critical considerations around plan design, compliance, and transaction readiness. Drawing on his experience advising business owners, collaborating with investment banks, and leading complex ESOP projects, Pete offers practical guidance for business owners and advisors navigating ESOP planning and execution.

EP3 - Construction Industry Spotlight: Interview with Joe Jones, Audit Partner at Berman Hopkins

2026/01/16

In this episode, Makenzie Wirth interviews Joe Jones, Audit Partner at Berman Hopkins. As lead of the firm’s Construction Advisory Services Team, Joe shares his perspective on the recent trend of construction companies transitioning ownership to ESOPs. From audit considerations, valuation risks, bonding, backlog quality, governance, and jobsite culture, Makenzie and Joe provide practical advice for construction owners considering employee ownership. Listen to this episode to understand how ESOPs impact construction businesses and get actionable guidance for your company’s transition.

EP2 - Foundations of Transition - Intent and Ownership Vision

2026/01/09

In this episode of the Journey to an ESOP podcast, Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth kick off The Foundations of Transition, a monthly series focused on owner readiness. Each workshop-style episode builds on the last, creating a practical framework to guide business owners through a successful ownership transition. This first foundation explores owner identity and readiness, helping business owners define their vision, align decisions with their values, and plan for a successful ownership transition. Understanding your identity is critical, as it shapes not only who your business is today, but also what it becomes after transition.

Podcast reviews

Read Journey to an ESOP & Beyond podcast reviews

4.9 out of 5

26 reviews

★★★★★

Darin Hurts 2023/06/19

Great pod for biz owners & investors

A+

★★★★★

JonWBisOwner 2020/10/26

Great Podcast!

Through these podcasts, Phil provides tremendously useful information about ESOPs. He makes complex ESOP topics understandable.

★★★★★

davidjoffe 2020/05/05

Valuable Insight

Phil does a great job of walking through the issues that are important to an ESOP, the company, and, in a transaction, the selling shareholders. Phil’...

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