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What if the anxiety you most want to get rid of is the one you most need to listen to? Existential psychologist Dan Koch and marketing strategist Kristen Tideman join Evan Rosa for a conversation about what anxiety is actually for—and what happens when it turns against you. "To be human is to be unfinished. It is to have constantly limits around you, and your choice is to accept them or pretend they're not there." In this episode, they reflect together on the existential roots of anxiety and what it looks like to confront real limits—from an MS diagnosis to faith upheaval to collective crisis. Together they discuss healthy versus unhealthy anxiety and how to tell them apart, the post-WWII origins of existential therapy, boundary situations and “thrownness,” what denial costs us spiritually and psychologically, and how accepting our limits can paradoxically expand our world. The conversation moves between lived experience of multiple sclerosis and philosophical framework about mortality, between Kierkegaard's "dizziness of freedom" and a three-month-old baby in an emergency room—asking not how to eliminate anxiety, but how to let the right kind of anxiety make your world bigger. Episode Highlights "To be human is to be unfinished. It is to have constantly limits around you, and your choice, among other things, is to accept them or pretend they're not there."—Dan Koch "I was literally in the ER. I'm holding my three-month-old baby who just got here. I'm like, my life just started—and I don't even know what this means. I don't even wanna Google what it means."—Kristen Tideman "Our brains are big enough and our minds are strong enough that unlike deer, plants, and coconuts, we can think about the future. We can imagine our own death."—Dan Koch "There's ways I wanna deny the MS. I wanna deny that that's part of my existence now. I wanna deny even components of my own faith change."—Kristen Tideman "Is my world getting smaller, or is my world getting bigger?"—Dan Koch About Dan Koch Dan Koch is an existential psychologist, therapist, and host of Religion on the Mind, a podcast and media project exploring the intersection of psychology, spirituality, and everyday life. His clinical work focuses on religious change—deconversion, deconstruction, reconstruction—and the downstream effects on identity, family, and meaning-making. He draws on the existential tradition from Kierkegaard and Jaspers through Viktor Frankl and Irvin Yalom. Koch has spoken openly about his own fifteen-year experience with panic disorder. Learn more and follow at religiononthemind.com [VERIFY] About Kristen Tideman Kristen Tideman is the founder of Tidy Studios, a marketing strategist and creative consultant. She holds a master's degree in philosophy and has brought that background into her work exploring questions of meaning, anxiety, and faith in public conversation. She lives with multiple sclerosis and is a new mother. Learn more and follow at [VERIFY—need Tidy Studios URL and social handles] Helpful Links and Resources Religion on the Mind https://www.religiononthemind.com/ Religion on the Mind https://religiononthemind.substack.com/ Religion on the Mind https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/religion-on-the-mind/id1448000113 Tidy Studios https://www.tidystudios.com/ Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl https://www.beacon.org/Mans-Search-for-Meaning-P602.aspx Dan Koch on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/dankoch Show Notes Why tackle anxiety now—geopolitical overwhelm, media firehose, personal crisis converging Kristen's competing anxieties: new motherhood, MS diagnosis, ongoing faith change Dan's path into existential psychology through clients navigating religious change Existential psychology's post-WWII roots—Viktor Frankl, concentration camps, the search for meaning The atomic bomb as psychological turning point—from imagining one's own death to imagining collective annihilation "Our brains are big enough that unlike deer, plants, and coconuts, we can think about the future. We can imagine our own death." Healthy vs. unhealthy anxiety—the central distinction in existential thought Healthy anxiety broadens your world; unhealthy anxiety becomes self-referential spiral The inner critic mistaken for motivation—when unhealthy anxiety masquerades as drive "I was literally in the ER. I'm holding my three-month-old baby. I'm like, my life just started—and I don't even know what this means." Philosophy becoming flesh—studying mortality vs. receiving a diagnosis "There's ways I wanna deny the MS. I wanna deny that that's part of my existence now. I wanna deny even components of my own faith change." Ontological anxiety vs. pathological anxiety—Kierkegaard's "dizziness of freedom" Avoidance vs. acceptance as the fundamental hinge in existential psychology The body carries what the mind tries to bypass—emotions as literal electricity in the nervous system Thrownness—Heidegger's concept of being tossed into unchosen circumstances Jaspers' shipwreck, Sartre's blind man on a raft, Kierkegaard's captain in a storm Boundary situations—MS, new parenthood, AI, sociopolitical chaos, loss of shared reality Kristen on maturity: "Anything that comes at us, we can use as an excuse to weaken our resolve or to strengthen it." "To be human is to be unfinished. It is to have constantly limits around you, and your choice is to accept them or pretend they're not there." "Is my world getting smaller, or is my world getting bigger?" Neurotic anxiety spins us inward; accepting limits pushes us toward collaboration and community Emmy van Deurzen and Irvin Yalom—real problems require more than one person Loving your neighbor as a practical consequence of accepting your own limits #ExistentialPsychology #Anxiety #MentalHealth #FaithDeconstruction #HumanFlourishing #Kierkegaard #ViktorFrankl #ChronicIllness #MSAwareness #ForTheLifeOfTheWorl Production Notes This podcast featured Kristen Tideman and Dan Koch Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Noah Senthil A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

As Christians enter the most solemn stretch of the liturgical year, theologian David Ford — who spent over twenty years writing his commentary on the Gospel of John — makes the case that no other Gospel prepares you for the cross the way John does. "The right question is not so much what happened on the cross, as who happened on the cross. All through the gospel, every chapter, John is saying — who Jesus is is the most important thing." In this episode with Macie Bridge, Ford reflects on why John's Gospel resists rushing past darkness to get to Easter. Together they discuss what the foot washing reveals about power and humble service; how John's prologue frames the entire passion through the mystery of incarnation; Jesus before Pilate and the priority of truth over empire; the horrific interpretive legacy of antisemitism in Luther, Augustine, and centuries of Christian reading; how the Gospel universalizes identity by rooting it in God rather than lineage; the scene at the cross as the seed of the church; and what Ford calls the sheer superabundance of grace — loving "utterly, intimately, vulnerably, mutually." Episode Highlights "The one thing one mustn't do with these days is see the resurrection as just coming down off the cross a few days later. That trivializes the cross." "Jesus is portrayed as being utterly one with God and utterly one with us. He's mortal. He's flesh. He can weep. He suffers." "The right question is not so much what happened on the cross, as who happened on the cross." "We are invited into this extraordinary intensity of the divine glory — but it's a glory that is utterly, utterly realistic about darkness, sin, death, suffering, and evil." "The whole gospel, I think, is an education of desire." About David Ford David F. Ford, OBE, is Regius Professor of Divinity Emeritus at the University of Cambridge, where he held the chair from 1991 to 2014, and a Fellow of Selwyn College. He is the founding director of the Cambridge Inter-Faith Programme and a co-founder of the practice of Scriptural Reasoning. He has served as theological adviser to three Archbishops of Canterbury. His books include The Gospel of John: A Theological Commentary (Christianity Today 2023 Book Award Finalist), Theology: A Very Short Introduction, The Shape of Living, and most recently Meeting God in John. His commentary on John's Gospel took over twenty years to write and has been translated into Korean. He was awarded an OBE for services to theological scholarship and inter-faith relations in 2013. (Sources: University of Cambridge Faculty of Divinity page; Center of Theological Inquiry profile, Feb. 2026.) Ford does not appear to maintain a personal website or public social media. Helpful Links and Resources Meeting God in John: Inspiration and Encouragement from the Fourth Gospel, by David F. Ford https://www.amazon.com/Meeting-God-John-Inspiration-Encouragement/dp/1587437066 The Gospel of John: A Theological Commentary, by David F. Ford https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-John-Theological-Commentary/dp/1540964086 For the Life of the World Episode 224: How to Read the Gospel of John / David Ford https://faith.yale.edu/media/how-to-read-the-gospel-of-john Scriptural Reasoning http://www.scripturalreasoning.org/ Denise Levertov, "On a Theme from Julian's Chapter XX" — discussed at Image Journal https://imagejournal.org/article/denise-levertov-a-memoir-and-appreciation/ Show Notes Why John's Gospel is the "matured gospel" — distilled from years of meditation, eyewitness reports, and rewriting "From his fullness we've all received grace upon grace" — the theme of superabundance running through John John wrote for both beginners and the experienced — simple Greek, inexhaustible depth Ford's biggest hope after 20 years writing his commentary: that readers would become "habitual rereaders" of John The prologue as the most influential short text in the history of Christianity "In the beginning was the Word" — the only framework for understanding Jesus is God and the whole of reality "The Word was made flesh" — utterly one with God, utterly one with us The farewell discourses of chapters 13–17 as probably the most profound teaching in the New Testament Chapter 17 as the most profound chapter in the Bible — Jesus' final prayer before the passion The foot washing: "All things having been given into his hands — and then what the hands do is wash the feet of his disciples" "Loving utterly, intimately, vulnerably, mutually" — the heading Ford gave to Maundy Thursday; used as the title of the Korean translation of his commentary "If you want to be great, wash feet" The "as" in John's Gospel — love as Jesus loved, sent as the Father sent — requiring us to go deep and then endlessly improvise Jesus washing Judas's feet — the radicality of love extended even to the one who betrays John omits the Eucharist from the Last Supper — placing eucharistic theology in chapter 6 to keep the focus on who Jesus is "I think nobody is in favor of the real absence of Jesus" — Ford on disputes over the real presence The beloved disciple as the model disciple, Peter as "all the rest of us" — the one who tries, fails, and is restored "The anonymity allows us all to write our names there" — reading ourselves into the beloved disciple and the mother of Jesus The threefold "Who are you looking for?" and the threefold "I am" at the arrest — echoing Exodus 3:14, the very name of God Before Pilate, facing the most powerful empire in history, Jesus headlines one thing: truth The scene at the cross as the seed of the church — Jesus sending his mother and the beloved disciple to each other "Here is your mother, here is your son" — the Greek verb for "received her" is the same as "whoever receives the one I send, receives me" "The right question is not so much what happened on the cross, as who happened on the cross" Nelson Mandela as a distant analogy: "Apartheid happened to Mandela, but Mandela happened to apartheid" — likewise, sin happened to Jesus, but Jesus happened to sin Denise Levertov's poem on Julian of Norwich: "the oneing with the Godhead opened him utterly to the pain" "He handed over the spirit" — not "gave up his spirit"; a possible first breathing of the Holy Spirit from the cross Scriptural Reasoning: its origins with Jewish textual reasoning scholars working out what it means to be Jewish after the Shoah Peter Ochs and the founding of Scriptural Reasoning at Princeton Ford on reading John chapter 8 with Peter Ochs: facing the "appalling inheritance" of antisemitic interpretation Adele Reinhartz's reading: John isn't anti-Semitic — John is Semitic; the Gospel relativizes ethnic identity Dietrich Bonhoeffer on doing justice to incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection — all three, not just one Receptive Ecumenism — looking at yourself first, asking how we can be better Christians rather than telling others to be like us "The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness does not overcome it. But it doesn't say the darkness disappeared." "The whole gospel, I think, is an education of desire" #GospelOfJohn #HolyWeek #GoodFriday #DavidFord #Lent #PassionNarrative #TheologyOfTheCross #FootWashing #ScripturalReasoning #ForTheLifeOfTheWorld Production Notes This podcast featured David Ford Interview by Macie Bridge Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Noah Senthil A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

The book of Ecclesiastes has puzzled readers for millennia with its unflinching observations about absurdity, meaninglessness, vanity, and futility. Biblical scholar Jesse Peterson joins Evan Rosa to discuss his book, Qoheleth and the Philosophy of Value, bringing contemporary philosophy into dialogue with this ancient text and reflecting on what happens when a sage confronts the gap between expectation and reality. "Can you view your work, your toil, not just as a means to a further end? Can you rather turn to simply enjoy the work itself?" Together they discuss the distinction between meaning and value, why Qoheleth denies lasting significance while affirming joy, the harm of death and the death of memory, Ecclesiastes and Camus's absurdism, and the book's surprising message about enjoyment as an intrinsic good. Episode Highlights "I think what's at the heart of the Book of Ecclesiastes is just to say, maybe not, maybe there isn't a direct line between what you do and what the result will be." "It's not just that you'll physically die, but meaning that you've accrued in your life, if there was such a thing, that dies with you." "In this moment of working on what I'm working on, whatever it is, I am fully alive." "You have a little piece of the pie, and just own it. Absorb yourself into whatever that may be." "Can you view your work, your toil, not just as a means to a further end? Can you rather turn to simply enjoy the work itself?" About Jesse Peterson Jesse Peterson is an Assistant Professor of Biblical Studies in the School of Theology and Honors Program at George Fox University. He previously taught at Purdue University, Fordham University, and St. John's University. He earned a PhD in Hebrew Bible from Durham University (UK), an MDiv from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and a BA in music and Jewish studies from the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. His work on Ecclesiastes has appeared in Harvard Theological Review, Vetus Testamentum, and the Journal of Theological Studies. He is the author of Qoheleth and the Philosophy of Value (Cambridge University Press). Helpful Links and Resources Qoheleth and the Philosophy of Value, by Jesse Peterson https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/qoheleth-and-the-philosophy-of-value/877B040C17EE8B9DD60174DEC7C306F7 Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Psychology-Experience-Perennial-Classics/dp/0061339202 Featured music by the Jesse Peterson Quartet https://jessepetersonquartet.bandcamp.com/album/man-of-the-earth Show Notes The most philosophical book in the Bible Bringing Ecclesiastes into dialogue with contemporary philosophy of value Jaco Gericke's Hebrew Bible and Philosophy of Religion as catalyst Authorship: why scholars date Ecclesiastes to the 3rd century BCE The Solomonic persona and the epilogue problem Amal (toil) and yitron (gain): does life add up? Qoheleth as businessman: commercial language for philosophy Three theories of meaning: subjectivism, consequentialism, intersubjectivism "Maybe there isn't a direct line between what you do and what the result will be" Brueggemann's orientation, disorientation, new orientation The absurd: expectation vs. reality, linking Qoheleth to Camus "Meaning that you've accrued in your life, if there was such a thing, that dies with you" The same fate for all: wise and foolish, human and animal Epicurus and the harm of death Hebrew anthropology: dust plus life-breath, no afterlife The carpe diem passages: "Go eat your bread with joy" Joy as robust, not narcotic—enjoying toil as an end in itself "In this moment of working on what I'm working on, I am fully alive" Csikszentmihalyi's Flow and the autotelic experience "Just own it. Absorb yourself into whatever that may be." #Ecclesiastes #Qoheleth #PhilosophyOfValue #MeaningInLife #BiblicalStudies #HebrewBible #WisdomLiterature #CarpeDiem #Absurdity #ForTheLifeOfTheWorld Production Notes This podcast featured Jesse Peterson Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Noah Senthil A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Increasingly, it seems that a very public and nationalized Christianity is bouncing back as a live, contested question around the world, and there’s a temptation to exist on the extremes of either loyalty to the point of idolatry, or total opposition to the point of suspicion of the human beings we need to get along with every day. That creates a dilemma for Christian witness, one that can perhaps only be solved by the courage and fortitude to live in the tension this creates, honoring everyone’s dignity, and not falling into a gross idolatry of the state. Oxford's Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology Luke Bretherton joins Ryan McAnnally-Linz to name what's happening as Christianity sees a resurgence in democratic public life, and what faithful witness demands. In this episode, Bretherton reflects on Christianity's re-emergence and the theology it requires. Together they discuss the real-time collapse of secular progressivism, democratic agency, Augustine on glory and shame, how media monetizes suspicion, why community organizing outlasts protest, and how the church might tell a truer—and more costly—story about common life. Episode Highlights "The plausibility structure of Christianity is kind of back in play in the post-progressive vibe shift." "We want to have enemies—it's really hard to organize the world around love of enemies, and it's hard to make money off love of enemies." "How do you express loyalty to your particular political community—loyalty without idolatry?" "The giving over of responsibility is itself an act of self-dehumanizing." "The uncle who drives you crazy at Thanksgiving is also the one who turns up with a bake when your child is ill—that's how idolatry works." About Luke Bretherton Luke Bretherton is Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at Oxford, director of the McDonald Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Life, and a canon of Christ Church. Previously at Duke University and King's College London, his work spans political theology, democracy, and grassroots politics. He hosts the Listen, Organize, Act! podcast. Books include A Primer in Christian Ethics (Cambridge, 2023), Christ and the Common Life, and Christianity and Contemporary Politics. Learn more at https://www.theology.ox.ac.uk/people/rev-canon-professor-luke-bretherton and @WestLondonMan https://x.com/WestLondonMan Helpful Links and Resources A Primer in Christian Ethics: Christ and the Struggle to Live Well (Cambridge, 2023) https://www.amazon.com/Primer-Christian-Ethics-Christ-Struggle/dp/1009329022 Listen, Organize, Act! podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/listen-organize-act-organizing-democratic-politics/id1553824477 Luke Bretherton at Oxford https://www.theology.ox.ac.uk/people/rev-canon-professor-luke-bretherton Show Notes “Post-progressive vibe shift”; Christianity newly plausible across UK and Europe Bible Society "quiet revival" research; young people back in Oxford churches "The plausibility structure of Christianity is kind of back in play in the post-progressive vibe shift." Meaning, purpose, character; religion in government policy commissions Tom Holland; civilizational Christianity; the post-new-atheist turn Political theology replacing secular ideology: Ukraine, Gaza, India-Pakistan Two dominant scripts: total shame vs. lost glory Augustine's third way: grace, ambiguity, open wounds "How do you express loyalty to your particular political community—loyalty without idolatry?" Local social trust still holds; national trust collapsed Social media systems that profit from suspicion: monetized idolatry "We want to have enemies—it's really hard to organize the world around love of enemies, and it's hard to make money off love of enemies." Think with the body, from place; neighbors before scripts "The uncle who drives you crazy at Thanksgiving is also the one who turns up with a bake when your child is ill." Mass mailing dissolved federated civil society: unions, denominations, guilds Moses's challenge: atomized crowd to covenantal people Strongmen and unmediated belonging; technology and concentrated power Polanyi's two responses: strong man or democratic organizing "The giving over of responsibility is itself an act of self-dehumanizing." Mobilizing vs. organizing; the Arab Spring The Westfield story: a teenager discovers her democratic agency Thick vs. thin trust: the only metric that matters #PublicTheology #PoliticalTheology #ChristianWitness #Democracy #CommunityOrganizing #FaithAndPolitics #ChristianEthics #PostProgressivism #ChurchAndState #Secularism Production Notes This podcast featured Luke Bretherton Interview by Ryan McAnnally-Linz Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Noah Senthil A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Theologian Bo Karen Lee joins Ryan McAnnally-Linz to explore how the multiple layers of trauma—pandemic grief, racialized violence, intergenerational wounding, vicarious suffering—can be met by the resources of Ignatian spirituality and contemplative prayer. Writing and teaching at the intersection of Christian formation and social justice, Lee brings both scholarly precision and uncommon personal candor to one of the most urgent conversations in theology today. "Trauma tends to isolate and alienate us from our siblings, our human siblings. But ironically, this witnessing of one another's pain is the source of healing. So it has the very opposite effect of what is needed for it to be healed." In this conversation, Lee reflects on the spiritual journey from what one author calls "alarmed aloneness" toward becoming beloved—seen, held, and gazed upon with love. Together they discuss the overlapping layers of collective, personal, racialized, and intergenerational trauma shaping contemporary life; attachment theory and its parallels with spiritual formation; the Ignatian tradition of imaginative, contemplative prayer; the still face experiment and the theology of the loving gaze; and why the church has something singular to offer the trauma crisis of our time. Episode Highlights "We are quite sure we're alone in the world and no one really sees us, no one truly cares and no one can be trusted. You're alone, overwhelmed, and helpless." "Trauma tends to isolate and alienate us from our siblings, our human siblings. But ironically, this witnessing of one another's pain is the source of healing. So it has the very opposite effect of what is needed for it to be healed." "I need to be held, but it's this illusory figure that holds me, because I have shut myself off to the very things that could help me, because no one is to be trusted." "I've seen too much hope, and too much beauty, and too much healing walking through the spiritual exercises that I can no longer despair that trauma has the final word." "Gazing upon the God who gazes upon me with love. That is contemplative prayer." About Bo Karen Lee Bo Karen Lee is Associate Professor of Spiritual Theology and Christian Formation at Princeton Theological Seminary, where she teaches contemplative theology, Ignatian spirituality, and the relationship between prayer and social justice. A leading voice in the integration of trauma studies and Christian formation, she brings the Ignatian tradition into conversation with psychology, attachment theory, and the lived experience of racialized communities. Her work draws on the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola to offer resources for healing that are both theologically grounded and pastorally immediate. She directs retreatants in the nineteenth annotation of the Spiritual Exercises and works regularly with spiritual directors trained in the Ignatian tradition. Helpful Links and Resources Bessel van der Kolk, Traumatic Stress: The Effects of Overwhelming Experience on Mind, Body, and Society https://www.amazon.com/Traumatic-Stress-Overwhelming-Experience-Society/dp/1572300485 Bessel van der Kolk, The Body Keeps the Score https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score Resmaa Menakem, My Grandmother's Hands https://www.resmaa.com/resources Kathy Weingarten, Common Shock: Witnessing Violence Every Day https://www.kathyweingarten.com David Fleming SJ, Draw Me Into Your Friendship https://www.amazon.com/Draw-Me-Into-Your-Friendship/dp/0912422904 Ignatius of Loyola, The Spiritual Exercises https://www.ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-prayer/the-spiritual-exercises/ Edward Tronick, Still Face Experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0 Find a Spiritual Director https://www.ignatianspirituality.com/making-good-decisions/find-a-spiritual-director/ Show Notes Trauma defined: "terror triggered by an inescapably stressful event that overwhelms existing coping mechanisms" — Bessel van der Kolk Layers of trauma: collective pandemic grief, personal wounding, racialized violence, intergenerational encoding, vicarious/secondary trauma Global pandemic as collective trauma — threat of death, forced isolation, planetary-scale overwhelm Racialized trauma and AAPI hate incidents — one in five AAPI individuals reported a hate incident in the U.S. in a 15-month window (as of late 2021) My Grandmother's Hands by Resmaa Menakem — racialized trauma encoded in bodies and communities https://www.resmaa.com/resources Cumulative microaggressions — daily small injuries can produce PTSD-level effects over time; growing body of clinical literature Secondary/vicarious trauma — hearing others' suffering reactivates unresolved wounds in caregivers and companions "Double jeopardy" — Kathy Weingarten's term for caregivers whose own past traumas are reactivated while supporting others Five professions at highest risk: clergy, health workers, teachers, police, journalists — context for the Great Resignation "Alarmed aloneness" — the net effect of trauma: certainty that no one sees you, no one cares, no one can be trusted "Trauma tends to isolate and alienate us from our siblings, our human siblings. But ironically, this witnessing of one another's pain is the source of healing." The orphan image: a girl in a Middle Eastern orphanage draws a chalk mother around her fetal body — illusory comfort as portrait of traumatic isolation Intergenerational trauma — encoded in DNA; personal testimony about learning her own mother was nearly killed as an infant, its echo across generations Kintsugi as healing metaphor — the Japanese art of mending broken pottery with gold; grief before repair, not a race to be fixed Robert Stolorow's concept: finding a "relational home" for traumatic suffering — the necessity of being witnessed Ignatius of Loyola — 16th-century Spanish soldier wounded by cannonball; encountered the living Christ through Ludolph of Saxony's Vita Christi during convalescence The Spiritual Exercises: a four-week manual for imaginative prayer — beloved and broken, walking with Christ through ministry, suffering, resurrection https://www.ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-prayer/the-spiritual-exercises/ Ignatian contemplative prayer defined: "gazing upon the God who gazes upon me with love" — kataphatic, embodied, not requiring stillness or silence Still Face Experiment (Edward Tronick) — infant distress when a loving mother goes blank; evidence that the gaze of love is neurologically and psychologically foundational https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0 Attachment theory and spiritual formation — earned secure attachment: what unhealthy early bonding cannot provide, sustained relationship with God can "I've seen too much hope, and too much beauty, and too much healing walking through the spiritual exercises that I can no longer despair that trauma has the final word." Personal testimony: AAPI hate crimes, night terrors, contemplative prayer with a spiritual director; a vision of Mary, the wailing women, and the crucified Christ "Bo, they killed me too" — Christ's words in a contemplative vision; solidarity as the beginning of bearable grief Sartre's "hell is other people" reframed — parasitic dependence on others' approval vs. the freedom of knowing how God gazes upon you Resources for beginning: David Fleming's Draw Me Into Your Friendship; finding a spiritual director trained in Ignatian spirituality; Jesuit retreat centers #TraumaHealing #IgnatianSpirituality #ContemplativePrayer #ChristianFormation #SpiritualTheology #MentalHealthAndFaith #RacializedTrauma #AttachmentTheory #ForTheLifeOfTheWorld #YaleDivinity Production Notes This podcast featured Bo Karen Lee Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Annie Trowbridge and Luke Stringer A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

What happens when we stop treating the Bible as a sacred object and start paying attention to how we actually use it? In this conversation, theologian David Dault reflects on interpretation, responsibility, and the ethics of reading scripture in a fractured world. In this episode with Evan Rosa, Dault reflects on interpretation, responsibility, and how readers shape the meaning and moral impact of the Bible. Together they discuss the materiality of scripture, translation and betrayal, moral seriousness, scriptural reasoning across traditions, catastrophic love, and the ethical responsibility readers bear for how sacred texts are used. Episode Highlights “To assume that we know what a text is telling us is a matter of hubris.” “The Bible doesn’t tell you to do anything. You as a reader decide what to do.” “Violence is always an act of interpretation.” “We never get to a place where everything is clean and everyone benefits.” “We have to take responsibility for the violence we involve ourselves in.” About David Dault David Dault is a theologian, journalist, and media producer whose work explores religion, culture, ethics, and interpretation. He is Executive Producer and host of Things Not Seen: Conversations About Culture and Faith, a nationally distributed public radio program. He teaches in the Institute of Pastoral Studies at Loyola University Chicago. Dault’s scholarship focuses on hermeneutics, religion and media, and the ethical implications of how sacred texts are interpreted and used in public life. His book The Accessorized Bible examines the material forms, cultural framing, and interpretive communities that shape how people encounter scripture. He holds degrees in theology and religious studies and frequently writes and lectures on religion, politics, and culture. Helpful Links And Resources The Accessorized Bible, by David Dault https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300153125/the-accessorized-bible/ Things Not Seen: Conversations About Culture and Faith https://thingsnotseenradio.com David Dault’s personal website https://www.daviddault.com/ Show Notes The Accessorized Bible—material culture of scripture, design, marketing niches, and the ways the physical form of the Bible shapes how readers interpret and use it Bible as object, medium, and cultural artifact; Marshall McLuhan and media theory—the form of a book shaping how ideas move between minds Books as technologies of imagination and identity formation; reading as a kind of “magical” transfer of ideas from one mind into another “To assume that we know what a text is telling us is a matter of hubris.” Interpretation requires caution, humility, and the recognition that texts exceed our control Making the familiar strange again; recovering the power of scripture by refusing to domesticate it or assume we fully understand it Franz Rosenzweig on preserving the alienness of sacred texts; debate with Martin Buber on translation and clarity Translation as interpretation—translators inevitably carry values, ideologies, and cultural assumptions into the text Harold Bloom’s Anxiety of Influence; interpreters “misread” texts in order to wrestle with their influence and generate new meaning Reading scripture in community; trust, vulnerability, and shared responsibility among interpreters Scriptural reasoning—Jews, Christians, and Muslims reading shared stories (Noah, Abraham, Moses) together without claiming mastery over the text Tikkun olam—Jewish ethical tradition of “repairing the world”; the world is wounded and humans participate in its healing Repentance and Repair—Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg on moral accountability, restitution, and the work of restoring relationships Violence embedded in interpretation; moral action always involves choices about attention, resources, and responsibility The “flashlight” metaphor—moral attention illuminating one suffering person while another need temporarily falls into shadow Jairus’s daughter and the woman with the hemorrhage—competing moral urgencies in the Gospels “We never get to a place where everything is clean and everyone benefits.” Moral action always involves tragic limitation and competing responsibilities Levinas and infinite responsibility; the ethical demand arising from the face of the person before us Moral seriousness versus performative irony; resisting discourse driven by trolling, spectacle, and dopamine-driven outrage A Bible Is A Book—dismantling the assumption that sacred texts themselves command moral action Steve Martin’s The Jerk and the phone book illustration; a sniper randomly selecting a name and deciding someone should die “The Bible doesn’t tell you what to do.” Readers decide what moral actions follow from a text Reader responsibility; refusing the excuse “the Bible told me to,” recognizing moral agency belongs to interpreters Scripture as “accessory to a crime”—sacred texts used as cover for violence, exclusion, or cruelty The Bible as platform—modular text shaped by study notes, editorial commentary, illustrations, and devotional framing Study Bibles, children’s Bibles, niche-market editions; publishing strategies shaping the interpretive experience Platform logic—similar to Facebook or Twitter; users curate meaning from a shared medium Proof-texting and selective quotation; constructing entire moral worlds from isolated passages Hannah Arendt on responsibility; loving the world enough to accept responsibility for it James Baldwin leaving Paris after the Little Rock crisis; refusing comfort while others bear injustice “Someone should have been there with her.” Baldwin’s recognition that solidarity requires leaving safety and standing beside the vulnerable Catastrophic love—risking institutions, traditions, and comfort for the sake of vulnerable bodies Matthew 25 ethics; encountering Christ among the hungry, imprisoned, and marginalized Moral seriousness as daily practice; imperfect responsibility, persistent solidarity, doing what one can today and beginning again tomorrow #Bible #ChristianBible #BiblicalInterpretation #TheologyPodcast #ChristianEthics #Hermeneutics #Scripture #FaithAndCulture #DavidDault Production Notes This podcast featured David Dault Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Noah Senthil A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Today we’re bringing you an episode with Esau McCaulley, from the Lenten season of 2023. Esau sees Lent as a practice of collective generational wisdom, passed down through centuries of sacramental rhythms—but as a contemporary reality, Lent is a spiritual rebellion against mainstream American culture. He construes Lent as a season of repentance and grace; he points out the justice practices of Lent; he walks through a Christian understanding of death, and the beautiful practice of stripping the altars on Maundy Thursday; and he’s emphatic about how it’s a guided season of pursuing the grace to find (or perhaps return) to yourself as God has called you to be. In his classic text, Great Lent, Orthodox priest and theologian Alexander Schmemann calls this season one of “bright sadness”—an important paradox that represents both Christian realism and hope. Lent is not about gloom, self-loathing, performative penitence, or despair. Instead it brings us face to face with our human condition, reminding us that we did not bring ourselves into being and someday we will die, sober about the reality and banality of evil, and sorrowful in a way that leads back to joy. Esau McCaulley is The Jonathan Blanchard Associate Professor of New Testament and Public Theology at Wheaton College, a contributing writer for the New York Times, and is author of many books, including children’s books. Notables are Reading While Black, a theology of Lent, and his latest: How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family’s Story of Hope and Survival in the American South. This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation. For more information, visit tyndale.foundation. About Esau McCaulley Esau McCaulley is The Jonathan Blanchard Associate Professor of New Testament and Public Theology at Wheaton College, a contributing writer for the New York Times, and is author of many books, including children’s books. Notables are Reading While Black, a theology of Lent, and his latest: How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family’s Story of Hope and Survival in the American South. Learn more at https://esaumccaulley.com/. Show Notes Lent: The Season of Repentance and Renewal — https://esaumccaulley.com/books/lent-book/ Commodifying our rebellion—the agency on offer is a thin, weakened agency. Repentance, grace, and finding (or returning to) yourself Examination of conscience The Great Litany: “For our blindness to human need and suffering, and our indifference to injustice and cruelty. Except our repentance, Lord.” The beauty of Christianity “Liturgical spirituality is not safe. God can jump out and get you at any moment in the service.” “The great thing about the, the, the season of Blend in the liturgical calendar more broadly is it gives you a thousand different entry points into transformation.” Lent is bookended by death. Black death, Coronavirus death, War death. Jesus defeated death as our great enemy. “Everybody that I know and I care about are gonna die. Everybody.” “I, as a Christian, believe that because we're going to die. our lives are of infinite value and the decisions that we make and the kinds of people we become are the only testimony that we have and that I have chosen to, to, in light of my impending death, put my faith in the one who overcame death.” Two realities: We’re going to die and Jesus defeated death. Stripping of the Altars on Maundy Thursday. Silent processional in black; Good Friday celebrates no eucharist. “I'm, like, the one Pauline scholar who doesn't like to argue about justification all of the time.” Good Friday’s closing prayer: “Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, we pray you to set your passion cross and death between your judgment and our souls.” “You end Lent with: Something has to come between God’s judgement and our souls. And that thing is Jesus.” “Lent is God loving you enough to tell you the truth about yourself, but not condemning you for it, but actually saying that you can be better than that.” Production Notes This podcast featured Esau McCaulley Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Macie Bridge, Luke Stringer, and Kaylen Yun. A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give Acknowledgements This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of Blueprint 1543. For more information, visit http://blueprint1543.org/.

Work shapes identity, community, and meaning—but how should faith show up in professional life? Sociologist Elaine Ecklund discusses religion in the workplace, drawing on research conducted with co-author Denise Daniels. “I think our faith compels us to hope for and enact flourishing for everyone.” In this episode with Evan Rosa, Ecklund reflects on vocation, gender, authenticity, and principled pluralism in modern workplaces. Together they discuss workplace identity, gender discrimination, calling across occupations, boundaries around work, religion’s public role, and pluralism in professional life. Episode Highlights “I think our faith compels us to hope for and enact flourishing for everyone.” “People use their religion to bring justice to their workplaces.” “They don’t want to pretend they’re someone different.” “There are ways in which our faith traditions can put needed boundaries around our work.” “I am being fully who I am and I am oriented toward the other.” About Elaine Ecklund Elaine Howard Ecklund is a sociologist of religion and professor at Rice University, where she directs the Boniuk Institute for the Study and Advancement of Religious Tolerance. Her research focuses on religion in public life, science and faith, and workplace culture. She is the author or co-author of numerous books, including Religion in a Changing Workplace and Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work (with Denise Daniels). Her work has been supported by the National Science Foundation and featured in major media outlets. Helpful Links And Resources Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work https://www.ivpress.com/working-for-better Religion in a Changing Workplace https://academic.oup.com/book/58194 Boniuk Institute for Religious Tolerance https://boniuk.rice.edu/ Elaine Ecklund website https://elaineecklund.com Show Notes Religion and workplace lifeSociology of belief research backgroundStudying scientists and religionExpanding research beyond science workplacesCollaboration with Denise DanielsAcademic and practical faith-at-work booksDefining work as paid laborHonoring caregiving and volunteer labor“People don’t want to pretend they’re someone different.”Bringing whole selves to workCalling across occupational sectorsWorkplace autonomy and meaning“People use their religion to bring justice to their workplaces.”Faith creating boundaries around workGender dynamics in workplacesStory of hiding motherhood in academiaFragmentation and identity performance“There are ways in which our faith traditions can put needed boundaries around our work.”Church gender expectationsBilly Graham rule implicationsWork skills serving congregationsLiving in pluralistic societyPrincipled pluralism explained“I am being fully who I am and I am oriented toward the other.”Embrace, dignity, and learning from difference#FaithAndWork #ElaineEcklund #PrincipledPluralism #ReligionAndWorkplace #Vocation #GenderAndWork #HumanFlourishing Production Notes This podcast featured Elaine EcklundEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Noah SenthilA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Can faith sustain courage and openness in a polarized democracy? Former Ohio governor and presidential candidate John Kasich reflects on faith, fear, character, and public life amid deep political polarization and religious tension in America. “There is a certain comfort in knowing you have somebody who’s always in your corner.” In this conversation with Evan Rosa, Kasich reflects on personal faith shaped by tragedy, the search for purpose, and why character matters more than ideology in leadership. Together they discuss religious faith in American life, his experience running in the 2016 Republican presidential primaries, voting on character over beliefs, firm political commitments, open-minded perspective taking, his vision of a life worth living, and before the end of this conversation, you’ll find out his favorite Metallica song. Episode Highlights “There is a certain comfort in knowing you have somebody who’s always in your corner.” “You can be firm while at the same time looking at a point of view of somebody who’s diametrically opposed to you.” “I look for character. I don’t look for what somebody thinks about the Book of Revelation.” “Faith informs the way I think about things, but it doesn’t spell out what I’m going to do.” “If you begin to work together to solve a problem locally, it can actually create friendship.” About John Kasich John Kasich is a former U.S. congressman, two-term governor of Ohio, and presidential candidate with more than four decades of experience in public service, media, and civic leadership. First elected to the Ohio State Senate at age 26, he later served 18 years in the U.S. House of Representatives before becoming governor in 2011. Kasich has authored six books exploring politics, faith, leadership, and civic responsibility, including his most recent, Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future. He is known for emphasizing character, dignity, and community-based solutions over ideological rigidity. Kasich frequently speaks on leadership, faith in public life, and democratic renewal, and continues to engage across political and cultural divides in pursuit of common purpose. Learn more and follow at https://johnkasich.com and https://twitter.com/JohnKasich Show Notes Growing up Catholic, altar service, early religious formationTragedy in 1987, parents killed by drunk driver“Where do you stand vis-à-vis your eternal destiny?”Faith as ongoing window of questioning, not certaintyGod’s existence, care, and personal relationship“Faith itself is a gift. God has to act first.”Fear, loss, and the backstop of divine presence“You’ve got the most powerful being in all of history kind of got your back.”Faith shared as gift, not coercion or argumentVoting based on character, not doctrinal alignmentScripture informing decisions, not dictating policyRespect for the poor as moral baselineChristian nationalism and the question of objective truthPolitics and faith distinct, neither hostile nor coerciveSingles win games, local action over grand crusadesFaith communities as clubhouses for moral actionWorking locally dissolves partisan hostilityLife worth living as purpose, gifts, and contributionCharacter, integrity, and not taking advantage of othersFreedom from fear, boxes, and rigid identitiesKindness versus niceness as moral distinctionOpen-mindedness as antidote to boredom and fearCampaigning as test of endurance, character, and empathy“People wanted to know who you were more than your ideas.”Pursuing convictions while staying rooted in faith communitiesProduction Notes This podcast featured John KasichEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Noah SenthilA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give#FaithAndPolitics #CharacterMatters #PublicFaith #CivicLife #CommonGood #JohnKasich

Mortality, fragility, forgiveness, and peace. Journalist and author Stan Grant offers a genre-bending work of prayer, memory, and theology shaped by fatherhood, Aboriginal inheritance, masculinity, and mortality. “I see this as a gift from God, a creator that allows us to find each other again.” In this conversation with Evan Rosa, Grant reflects on his 2025 book, Murriyang: Song of Time—his philosophical and spiritual exploration of the human place in the world and faith as lived experience rather than abstraction. He looks closely at his father’s life in order to come to terms with his own, the meaning of fatherhood and how to understand and forgive our fathers, masculinity and vulnerability, Aboriginal history and identity, masculinity and vulnerability, forgiveness and sacrifice, prayer and poetry, and the whole human experience of time and eternity. Episode Highlights “We inherit our father’s cups.” “We must forgive our fathers. It is the only way that we can forgive ourselves.” “We cannot survive without each other.” “Man is not made for history. History is made for man.” “ … to confront the beauty of that mortality—my father’s final gift to me is his death.” About Stan Grant Stan Grant is an Australian journalist, author, and public intellectual of Wiradjuri, Kamilaroi, and Dharawal heritage. A former international correspondent and broadcaster, he has written widely on Indigenous identity, history, faith, and moral responsibility. Grant is the author of several acclaimed books, including Talking to My Country and Murriyang: Song of Time, which blends prayer, memoir, poetry, and theology. His work consistently resists abstraction in favor of embodied human experience, emphasizing forgiveness, attention, and the dignity of the human person. Grant has received national honors for journalism and cultural leadership and remains a leading voice in conversations about history, masculinity, faith, and what it means to live lives worthy of our shared humanity. Helpful Links and Resources Murriyang: Song of Time https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9781460763827/murriyang/ Talking to My Country https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9781460752210/talking-to-my-country/ Stan Grant official website https://www.stangrant.com.au Show Notes Fathers and sons; inherited burden, sacrifice, and responsibility“We inherit our father’s cups”Christ in Gethsemane as archetype of father-son sufferingMasculinity as physical burden, scars, toughness“We must forgive our fathers. It is the only way that we can forgive ourselves and live in a world of forgiveness with the other.”Yindyamarra: respect, gentleness, quietness, forgivenessImprovisation and rehearsal; jazz as spiritual and artistic model“I have never written a second draft.”Second thought as artifice, hiding, dishonestyForgiveness of self before speaking; imperfection and risk“If silence is violence, then we have redefined the very nature of violence itself.”Giftedness of life; what is given and receivedGift exchange versus transaction in modern society“We offer the gift of ourselves to each other.”Murriyang as Psalter, prayer, song, contemplation of time and GodReading slowly; opening anywhere; shelter from modern noise“We cannot survive without each other.”One-person performance; no script, immediacy, intimacyMusic, poetry, time, mortality woven togetherFather’s body as history; sawmills, injuries, exhaustionChildhood memory of bath; “the water is stained black with blood”Mother’s touch; tenderness amid survivalLate-life renaissance; language recovery, teaching, honorsMurriyang (heaven) and Babiin (father) liturgical, prayerful, dialogical alternation throughout the textSt. Augustine: “What was God doing before he made time? He was making hell for the over-curious.”Is God in time? Or out of time?Speaking of eternity or timelessness still imputes the concept of time.“ The imaginative space of time itself, it reaches to an horizon. But what is beyond the horizon? For modernity, of course, time is the big story. To be modern is to reinvent time. It's to be new. Modernity and technology is all about taming time.”“Man is not made for history. History is made for man.”Attention, affliction, abstraction, and the loss of human touch“My father’s gift to me is his death.”Mortality as meaning; resisting transhumanismTime, modernity, instant life, collapsing spaceFragility, love, forgiveness, and beginning againEnding where we began#StanGrant #Murriyang #Fatherhood #Masculinity #Forgiveness #TimeAndFaith #HumanFlourishing #Australia Production Notes This podcast featured Stan GrantEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Noah SenthilA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Slavery did not end in the nineteenth century—it persists today, hidden in global supply chains, religious justifications, and systems of power. Kevin Bales and Michael Rota join Evan Rosa to explore modern slavery through history, psychology, and theology, asking why it remains so difficult to see and confront. “It’s time some person should see these calamities to their end.” (Thomas Clarkson, 1785) “There are millions of slaves in the world today.” (Kevin Bales, 2025) In this episode, they consider how conscience, power, and religious belief can either sustain enslavement or become forces for abolition. Together they discuss the psychology of slaveholding, faith’s complicity and resistance, Quaker abolitionism, modern debt bondage, ISIS and Yazidi slavery, and what meaningful action looks like today. https://freetheslaves.net/ –––––––––––––––––– Episode Highlights “There are millions of slaves in the world today.” “Statistics isn’t gonna do it. I need to actually show people things.” “They have sexual control. They can do what they like.” “Slavery is flowing into our lives hidden in the things we buy.” “We have to widen our sphere of concern.” –––––––––––––––––– About Kevin Bales Kevin Bales is a leading scholar and activist in the global fight against modern slavery. He is Professor of Contemporary Slavery at the University of Nottingham and co-founder of Free the Slaves, an international NGO dedicated to ending slavery worldwide. Bales has spent more than three decades researching forced labor, debt bondage, and human trafficking, combining academic rigor with on-the-ground investigation. His work has shaped international policy, influenced anti-slavery legislation, and brought global attention to forms of enslavement often dismissed as historical. He is the author of several influential books, including Disposable People and Friends of God, Slaves of Men, which examines the complex relationship between religion and slavery across history and into the present. Learn more and follow at https://www.kevinbales.org and https://www.freetheslaves.net About Michael Rota Michael Rota is Professor of Philosophy at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota, where he teaches and researches in the philosophy of religion, moral psychology, and the history of slavery and religion. His work spans scholarly articles on the definition of slavery, the moral psychology underlying social change and abolition, and the relevance of theological concepts to ethical life. Rota is co-author with Kevin Bales of Friends of God, Slaves of Men: Religion and Slavery, Past and Present, a comprehensive interdisciplinary study of how religions have both justified and resisted systems of enslaving human beings from antiquity to the present day. He is also the author of Taking Pascal’s Wager: Faith, Evidence, and the Abundant Life, an extended argument for the reasonableness and desirability of Christian commitment. In addition to his academic writing, he co-leads projects in philosophy and education and is co-founder of Personify, a platform exploring AI and student learning. Learn more and follow at his faculty profile and personal website https://mikerota.wordpress.com and on X/Twitter @mikerota. –––––––––––––––––– Helpful Links And Resources Disposable People by Kevin Bales https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520281820/disposable-people Friends of God, Slaves of Men by Kevin Bales and Michael Rota https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520383265/friends-of-god-slaves-of-men Free the Slaves https://www.freetheslaves.net Voices for Freedom https://voicesforfreedom.org International Justice Mission https://www.ijm.org Talitha Kum https://www.talithakum.info –––––––––––––––––– Show Notes – Slavery named as a contemporary moral crisis obscured by twentieth-century abolition narratives – Kevin Bales’s encounter with anti-slavery leaflet in London, mid-1990s – “There are millions of slaves in the world today … I thought, look, that can’t be true because I don’t know that. I’m a professor. I should know that.” – Stories disrupting moral distance more powerfully than statistics – “There were three little stories inside, about three different types of enslavement … it put a hook in me like a fish and pulled me.” – United Nations documentation mostly ignored despite vast evidence – Decades of investigation into contemporary slavery – Fieldwork across five regions, five forms of enslavement – Kevin Bales’s book, Disposable People as embodied witness with concrete stories – “Statistics isn’t gonna do it. I need to actually show people things. There’s gonna be something that breaks hearts the way it did me when I was in the field.” – Psychological resistance to believing slavery touches ordinary life – Anti-Slavery International as original human rights organization founded in U.K. in 1839 – Quaker and Anglican foundations of abolitionist movements – Religion as both justification for slavery and engine of resistance – Call for renewed faith-based abolition today – Slavery and religion intertwined from early human cultures – Colonial expansion intensifying moral ambiguity – Columbus, Genoa, and enslavement following failed gold extraction – Spanish royal hesitation over legitimacy of slavery – Las Casas’s moral conversion after refusal of absolution – “He eventually realized this is totally wrong. What we are doing, we are destroying these people. And this is not what God wants us to be doing.” – Sepúlveda’s Aristotelian defense of hierarchy and profit – Moral debate without effective structural enforcement – Power described as intoxicating and deforming conscience – Hereditary debt bondage in Indian villages – Caste, ethnicity, and generational domination – Sexual violence as mechanism of absolute control – “They have sexual control. They can beat up the men, rape the women, steal the children. They can do pretty much what they like.” – Three-year liberation process rooted in trust, education, and collective refusal – Former slaves returning as teachers and organizers – Liberation compared to Plato’s allegory of the cave – Post-liberation vulnerability and risk of recapture – Power inverted in Christian teaching – “The disciples are arguing about who’s the greatest, and Jesus says, the greatest among you will be the slave of all… don’t use power to help yourself. Use it to serve.” – Psychological explanations for delayed abolition – The psychological phenomenon of “motivated reasoning” that shapes moral conclusions – “The conclusions we reach aren’t just shaped by the objective evidence the world provides. They’re shaped also by the internal desires and goals and motivations people have.” – Economic self-interest and social consensus sustaining injustice – Quaker abolition through relational, conscience-driven confrontation – First major religious body to forbid slaveholding – Boycotts of slave-produced goods and naval blockade of slave trade – Modern slavery as organized criminal enterprise – ISIS enslavement of Yazidi women – Religious reasoning weaponized for genocide – “They said, for religious reasons, we just need to eradicate this entire outfit.” – Online slave auctions and cultural eradication – Internal Islamic arguments for abolition – Restricting the permissible for the common good – Informing conscience as first step toward action – Community sustaining long-term resistance – Catholic religious sisters as leading global abolitionists – Hidden slavery embedded in everyday consumer goods – “There’s so much slavery flowing into our lives which is hidden… in our homes, our watches, our computers, the minerals, all this.” – Expanding moral imagination beyond immediate needs – “Your sphere of concern has to be wider… how do I start caring about something that I don’t see?” – “It’s time some person should see these calamities to their end.” (Thomas Clarkson, 1785) –––––––––––––––––– #ModernSlavery #FaithAndJustice #HumanDignity #Abolition #FreeTheSlaves Production Notes This podcast featured Kevin Bales and Michael RotaEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Noah SenthilA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Poet and essayist Carol Ann Davis (Fairfield University) joins Evan Rosa for a searching conversation on violence, childhood, and the moral discipline of attention in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. Reflecting on trauma, parenting, childhood, poetry, and faith, Davis resists tidy narratives and invites listeners to dwell with grief, healing, beauty, and pain without resolution. “I don’t believe life feels like beginnings, middles, and ends.” In this episode, Davis reflects on how lived trauma narrows attention, reshapes language, and unsettles conventional storytelling. Together they discuss poetry as dwelling rather than explanation, childhood and formation amid violence, image versus narrative, moral imagination, and the challenge of staying present to suffering. Episode Highlights “Nothing has happened at Hawley School. Please hear me. I have opened every door and seen your children.” “And that was what it is not to suffer. This is the not-suffering, happy-ending story.” “I’m always narrowing focus.” “I think stories lie to us sometimes.” “I think of the shooting as a nail driven into the tree.” “I’m capable of anything. I’m afraid I’m capable of anything.” “I tried to love and out of me came poison.” About Carol Ann Davis Carol Ann Davis is a poet, essayist, and professor of English at Fairfield University. She is the author of the poetry collections Psalm and Atlas Hour, and the essay collection The Nail in the Tree: Essays on Art, Violence, and Childhood. A former longtime editor of the literary journal Crazyhorse, she directs Fairfield University’s Low-Residency MFA and founded Poetry in Communities, an initiative bringing poetry to communities affected by violence. An NEA Fellow in Poetry, Davis’s work has appeared in The Atlantic, The American Poetry Review, Image, Agni, The Georgia Review, and elsewhere. Learn more and follow at https://www.carolanndavis.org Helpful Links and Resources The Nail in the Tree: Essays on Art, Violence, and Childhood https://www.tupelopress.org/bookstore/p/the-nail-in-the-tree-essays-on-art-violence-and-childhood Songbird https://www.weslpress.org/9780819502223/songbird/ Psalm https://www.tupelopress.org/bookstore/p/psalm Atlas Hour https://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Hour-Carol-Ann-Davis/dp/1936797003 Carol Ann Davis official website https://www.carolanndavis.org Show Notes Carol Ann Davis recounts moving to Newtown, Connecticut just months before Sandy Hook, teaching a course at Fairfield University when news of the shooting first breaksHer young children attended a local elementary schoolConfusion, delay, and the unbearable seconds of not knowing which school was attackedA colleague’s embrace as the reality of the shooting becomes clearParenting under threat and the visceral fear of losing one’s children“Nothing has happened at Hawley School. Please hear me. I have opened every door and seen your children.” (Hawley School’s Principal sends this message to parents, including Carol Ann)Living inside the tension where nothing happened and everything changedWriters allowing mystery, unknowing, and time to remain unresolvedNaming “directly affected families” and later “families of loss”Ethical care for proximity without flattening grief into universalityThe moral value of being useful within an affected communityNarrowing attention as survival, parenting, and poetic disciplineChoosing writing, presence, and community over national policy debatesChildhood formation under the long shadow of gun violence“I think of the shooting as a nail driven into the tree. And I’m the tree.” (Carol Ann quotes her older son, then in 4th grade)Growth as accommodation rather than healing or resolutionIntegration without erasure as a model for living with traumaRefusing happy-ending narratives after mass violence“I don’t believe life feels like beginnings, middles, and ends.”Poetry as dwelling inside experience rather than extracting meaningResisting stories that turn suffering into takeawaysCrucifixion imagery, nails, trees, and the violence of embodiment“I’m capable of anything. I’m afraid I’m capable of anything.”Violence as elemental, human, animal, and morally unsettlingDistinguishing intellectual mastery from dwelling in lived experienceA poem’s turn toward fear: loving children and fearing harm“I tried to love and out of me came poison.”Childhood memory, danger, sweetness, and oceanic smallnessBeing comforted by smallness inside something vast and terrifyingEnding without closure, choosing remembrance over resolution#CarolAnnDavis #PoetryAndViolence #TraumaAndAttention #SandyHook #SandyHookPromise #FaithAndWriting #Poetry #ChildhoodAndMemory Production Notes This podcast featured Carol Ann DavisEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

“Our longings are much more powerful than our logic, and our desires are stronger than our reason.” (Graham Tomlin on the thought of Blaise Pascal) The Rt. Rev. Dr. Graham Tomlin (St. Mellitus College, the Centre for Cultural Witness) joins Evan Rosa for a sweeping exploration of Blaise Pascal—the 17th-century mathematician, scientist, philosopher, and theologian whose insights into human nature remain strikingly relevant. Tomlin traces Pascal’s life of brilliance and illness, his tension between scientific acclaim and radical devotion, and his deep engagement with Descartes, Montaigne, and Augustine. The conversation moves through Pascal’s analysis of self-deception, his critique of rationalism and skepticism, the transformative Night of Fire, his compassion for the poor, and the wager’s misunderstood meaning. Tomlin presents Pascal as a thinker who speaks directly to our distracted age, revealing a humanity marked by greatness, misery, and a desperate longing only grace can satisfy. This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation. Visit tyndale.foundation to learn more. Episode Highlights “Our longings are much more powerful than our logic, and our desires are stronger than our reason.”“The greatness and the refuse of the universe—that’s what we are. We’re the greatest thing and also the worst thing.”“If everybody knew what everybody else said about them, there would not be four friends left in the world.”“Only grace can begin to turn that self-oriented nature around and implant in us a desire for God.”“The reason you cannot believe is not because of your reason; it’s because of your passions.”Show Notes Graham Tomlin introduces the Night of Fire and Pascal’s meditation on “the greatness of the human soul”Evan Rosa frames Pascal as a figure of mystery, mechanics, faith, and modern technological influence.Tomlin contrasts Pascal with Descartes and Montaigne—rationalism vs. skepticism—locating Pascal between their poles.Pascal’s awareness of distraction, competition, and “all men naturally hate each other” surfaces early as a key anthropological insight.Evan notes Nietzsche’s striking admiration: “his blood runs through my veins.”Tomlin elaborates on Pascal’s lifelong tension between scientific achievement and spiritual devotion.The story of the servant discovering the hidden Night of Fire parchment in Pascal’s coat lining is recounted.Tomlin reads the core text: “Joy, joy, joy, tears of joy… Let me never be separated from him.”Pascal’s distinction: “God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, not of the philosophers.”Discussion of Jansenism, Augustinian anthropology, and the gravity of human fallenness.Tomlin sets the philosophical context: Pascal as a counter to both rationalist optimism and skeptical relativism.Pascal’s core tension—grandeur and misery—is presented as the interpretive key to human nature.Quote emerges: “the greatness and the refuse of the universe—that’s what we are.”Tomlin describes Pascal’s political skepticism and the idea that politics offers only “rules for a madhouse.”Pascal’s diagnosis of self-deception: “If everybody knew what everybody else said about them, there would not be four friends left in the world.”Evan raises questions about social hope; Tomlin answers with Pascal’s belief that only grace can break self-love.They explore Pascal’s critique of distraction and the famous line: “the sole cause of man’s unhappiness is that he does not know how to stay quietly in his room.”Tomlin ties this to contemporary digital distraction—“weapons of mass distraction”.The conversation turns to the wager, reframed not as coercion but exposure: unbelief is driven by passions more than reasons.Closing reflections highlight the apologetic project of the Pensées, Pascal’s brilliance, and his ongoing relevance.Helpful Links and References Special thanks to the Center for Christian Witness and Seen and Unseen https://www.seenandunseen.com/ Blaise Pascal: The Man Who Made the Modern World, by Graham Tomlin https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/graham-tomlin/blaise-pascal/9781399807661/ Pensées, by Blaise Pascal https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/18269 Provincial Letters, by Blaise Pascal https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2407 Why Being Yourself Is a Bad Idea, by Graham Tomlin https://www.amazon.com/Why-Being-Yourself-Bad-Idea/dp/0281087097 Montaigne’s Essays https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3600 Descartes’ Meditations on First Philosophy https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/23306 Augustine’s Confessions https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3296 About Graham Tomlin Graham Tomlin is a British theologian, writer, and church leader. He is the former Bishop of Kensington (2015-2022) in the Church of England and now serves as Director of the Centre for Cultural Witness and President of St Mellitus College in London. He is widely known for connecting theology with cultural life and public imagination. Tomlin is the author of several books, including Looking Through the Cross, The Widening Circle, and Why Being Yourself Is a Bad Idea: And Other Countercultural Notions. His latest book is an intellectual and spiritual biography, Blaise Pascal: The Man Who Made the Modern World. Production Notes This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of the Tyndale House FoundationThis podcast featured Graham TomlinProduction Assistance by Emily Brookfield and Alexa RollowEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaA production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Loneliness seems to be part of what it means to be a relational being. Does that mean loneliness can never really be “solved”? Here’s one way to think about loneliness: As a gap between relational expectation and social reality—something that signals our essentially relational, reciprocal nature as human beings. This episode is part 6 of a series, SOLO, which explores the theological, moral, and psychological dimensions of loneliness, solitude, and being alone. In this reflective conclusion to the series, Macie Bridge and Ryan McAnnally-Linz explore loneliness not as a pathology to solve but as a universal, creaturely experience that reveals our longing for relationship. Drawing on insights from conversations throughout the series, they consider how loneliness emerges in the gap between what we desire relationally and what we actually have, and why this gap might be intrinsic to being human. They discuss solitude as a vital space for discernment, self-understanding, and listening for God; how risk is inherent to relationships; why the church holds unique potential for embodied community; and how even small interactions with neighbors and strangers can meet real needs. Together they reflect on grief, social isolation, resentment, vulnerability, and the invitation to turn loneliness into attentiveness—to God, to ourselves, and to our neighbors, human and non-human alike. Episode Highlights “Loneliness is just baked into our creaturely lives.” “There really is no solution to loneliness—and also that’s okay.” “We invite a certain level of risk because we invite another person closer to our own human limits.” “There’s no blanket solution. We are all experiencing this thing, but we are all experiencing it differently.” “I realized I could be a gift to her, and she could be a gift to me, even in that small moment.” About Macie Bridge Macie Bridge is Operations Coordinator for the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. Macie is originally from the small town of Groton, Massachusetts, where she was raised in the United Church of Christ. As an undergraduate at Trinity College in Hartford, CT, Macie studied English literature, creative writing, and religious studies. She spent a year in Chapel Hill, North Carolina with the Episcopal Service Corps after receiving her B.A. There, she served as Events & Communications Coordinator for L’Arche North Carolina—an emerging L’Arche community, and therefore an incredible “crash course” into the nonprofit world. About Ryan McAnnally-Linz Ryan McAnnally-Linz is Associate Director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture and a theologian focusing on flourishing, meaning, and the moral life. He is co-author of Public Faith in Action and The Home of God with Miroslav Volf, and Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most with Miroslav Volf and Matt Croasmun. Show Notes Loneliness as Creaturely ConditionLoneliness as “baked into our creaturely lives,” not a sign of brokenness or failureThe “gap between what we want and what we have” in relationshipsLoneliness as a universal human experience across ages and contextsSolitude and DiscernmentSolitude as a place to listen more clearly to God and oneselfTime alone clarifies intuition, vocation, and identity.Solitude shapes self-knowledge outside societal expectations.Community, Church, and EmbodimentChurches can be embodied spaces of connection yet still feel lonely.Hospitality requires more than “hi”; it requires digging deeper into personal encounter.Embodied church life resists technological comforts that reduce vulnerability.Grief, Risk, and VulnerabilityDistinguishing grief-loneliness from social-isolation lonelinessRelationships inherently involve risk, limits, and potential hurt.Opening oneself to others requires relinquishing entitlement.Everyday Encounters and Ecological AttentionSmall moments with neighbors (like taking a stranger’s photo) can be meaningful.Loneliness can signal attention toward creaturely neighbors—birds, bugs, landscapes.Turning loneliness outward can widen our capacity for care.Production Notes This podcast featured Macie BridgeEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Alexa Rollow, Emily Brookfield, and Hope ChunA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Living alone may be difficult, but what about dying alone? Physicians and nurses are the new priests accompanying people as they face death. But the experience of nursing homes, assisted living, and palliative wards are often some of the loneliest spaces in human culture. “He said, ‘Someone finally saw me. I’ve been in this hospital for 20 years and I didn’t think anyone ever saw me.’” This episode is part 5 of a series, SOLO, which explores the theological, moral, and psychological dimensions of loneliness, solitude, and being alone. In this episode, Columbia physician and medical ethicist Lydia Dugdale joins Macie Bridge to reflect on loneliness, solitude, and what it means to die—and live—well. Drawing from her clinical work in New York City and the years of research and experience that went into her book The Lost Art of Dying, Dugdale exposes a crisis of unrepresented patients dying alone, the loss of communal care, and medicine’s discomfort with mortality. She recalls the medieval Ars Moriendi tradition, where dying was intentionally communal, and explores how virtue and community sustain a good death. Together they discuss solitude as restorative rather than fearful, loneliness as a modern epidemic, and the sacred responsibility of seeing one another deeply. With stories from her patients and her own reflections on family, COVID isolation, and faith, Dugdale illuminates how medicine, mortality, and moral imagination converge on one truth: to die well, we must learn to live well … together. Helpful Links and ResourcesThe Lost Art of Dying: Reviving Forgotten Wisdom by Lydia S. DugdalePew Research Center Study on Loneliness (2025)Harvard Study of Adult Development on LonelinessEpisode Highlights“If you want to die well, you have to live well.”“Community doesn’t appear out of nowhere at the bedside.”“He said, ‘Someone finally saw me. I’ve been in this hospital for 20 years and I didn’t think anyone ever saw me.’”“We are social creatures. Human beings are meant to be in relationship.”“Solitude, just like rest or Sabbath, is something all of us need.”About Lydia DugdaleLydia S. Dugdale, MD, MAR is a physician and medical ethicist at Columbia University, where she serves as Professor of Medicine and Director of the Center for Clinical Medical Ethics. She is the author of The Lost Art of Dying: Reviving Forgotten Wisdom and a leading voice on virtue ethics, mortality, and human flourishing in medicine. Show NotesLoneliness, Solitude, and the City New York’s “unrepresented” patients—those who have no one to make decisions for them.The phenomenon of people “surrounded but unseen” in urban life.“I have a loving family … but I never see them.”Medicine and the Pandemic Loneliness intensified during COVID-19: patients dying alone under strict hospital restrictions.Dugdale’s reflections on balancing social responsibility with human connection.“We are social creatures. Human beings are meant to be in relationship.”Technology, Fear, and the Online Shadow Community Post-pandemic isolation worsened by online echo chambers.One in five adults reports loneliness—back to pre-pandemic levels.The Lost Art of Dying Medieval Ars Moriendi: learning to die well by living well.Virtue and community as the foundation for a good death.“If you don’t want to die an impatient, bitter, despairing old fool, then you need to practice hope and patience and joy.”Modern Medicine’s Fear of Death Physicians unpracticed—and afraid—to talk about mortality.“Doctors themselves are afraid to talk about death.”How palliative care both helps and distances doctors from mortality.Community and Mortality The man who reconnected with his estranged children after reading The Lost Art of Dying.“He said, ‘I want my kids there when I die.’”Living well so that dying isn’t lonely.Programs of Connection and the Body of Christ Volunteer models, day programs, and mutual care as small restorations of community.“The more we commit to others, the more others commit back to us.”Solitude and the Human Spirit Distinguishing solitude, loneliness, and social isolation.Solitude as restorative and necessary: “All of us need solitude. It’s a kind of rest.”The contemplative life as vital for engagement with the world.Death, Autonomy, and Community The limits of “my death, my choice.”The communal role in death: “We should have folks at our deathbeds.”Medieval parish customs of accompanying the dying.Seeing and Being Seen A patient long thought impossible to care for says, “Someone finally saw me.”Seeing others deeply as moral and spiritual work.“How can we see each other and connect in a meaningful way?”Production Notes This podcast featured Lydia DugdaleInterview by Macie BridgeEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Alexa Rollow, Emily Brookfield, and Hope ChunA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give