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Murder She Spoke

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Rating
★★★★★
4.9
from
34 reviews
This podcast has
123 episodes
Language
English
Date created
2020/04/24
Latest episode
2023/12/15
Average duration
49 min.
Release period
9 days

Description

Murder She Spoke is a weekly true crime victim-focused podcast covering Scottish cases. Hosted by Emma and Joannagh who hail from Scotland, each week we discuss a new case with empathy and sensitivity. We strive to shine a light on unsolved cases, in the hope that keeping these victims at the forefront of people's minds may contribute to a conclusion for victim's families. We give true crime recommendations at the beginning of each episode and discuss cases afterwards, focusing on the psychology of the perpetrator(s). Each episode is ended on a light-hearted note with a crime related tidbit or anecdote.

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Episode 115: Jenny Methven
2023/12/15
Episode 115: Jenny Methven This week Emma brings us the story of Jenny Methven, an 80 year-old widow who was killed in February 2012. Jenny had been the victim of a shocking attack and sadly succumbed to her injuries. Emma gives us details of the Police investigation, including appeals for information from the public, features on Crimewatch and of rewards offered for information. Emma also tells us of the shocking direction the investigation would take as someone close to the family was arrested as the prime suspect. Case research by Emma Taylor Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/339627/Suicide-letter-of-Jenny-murder-accused https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13066153.man-faces-trial-pensioner-murder/ https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-courier-advertiser-perth-and-perthshire-edition/20201110/281487868874037 https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/340964/Mum-s-murder-was-an-act-of-betrayal https://www.scotsman.com/news/jenny-methven-murder-my-mums-killer-was-just-like-a-brother-to-me-2512136 https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/perth-kinross/169722/perthshire-murderer-declared-bankrupt/ https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/life-sentence-jenny-methvens-killer-2728355 https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13087546.methven-murderer-abandons-appeal-conviction/ https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-courier-advertiser-perth-and-perthshire-edition/20141103/282827894422846 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-36246544 https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13070049.lies-spiralled-net-closed-killer/ a href="https://www.scotsman.com/news/jenny-methven-murder-trial-im-scared-of-getting-blame-for-what-i-didnt-do-accuseds-suicide-note-1613413" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer...
Episode 114: Kenneth George Jones
2023/12/11
Episode 114: Kenneth George Jones This week Joannagh tells us about the case of Kenneth George Jones, who went missing from his home in Glenrothes, Fife in November 1998. Kenneth has been missing for 25 years, with no apparent reason to leave and no indication of foul play. Joannagh discusses the steps taken to help locate Kenneth, included age progresed photos due to the time elapsed since his disappearance. We also hear about the diffculty faced by his family due to the lack of information on Kenneth's whereabouts and with there having been a number of cases where remains were found nearby, which were ultimately unrelated. If anyone has seen Kenneth, you can contact Missing People anonymously by calling 116 000 - calls are untraceable - or by emailing [email protected]. Alternatively, you can contact police on 101. Case research by Joannagh Shanks Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/help-us-find/kenneth-jones-99-000956# https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12345654.couple-make-plea-for-return-of-missing-son/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/14898927.remains-in-park-still-not-identified/ https://www.scotsman.com/news/mother-told-bones-in-fife-park-may-be-missing-son-1498164 https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/fife/306427/new-appeals-families-missing-men-prepare-anniversary/ https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/kenneth-jones-family-of-missing-glenrothes-teenager-renew-appeal-20-years-on-from-his-disappearance-215571 https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18535769.unsolved-names-faces-scotlands-missing-people/ https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/glenrothes-remains-do-not-belong-to-missing-men-allan-bryant-and-kenneth-jones-2993755 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-59672923 https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/fife/1630159/police-confirm-fife-remains-not-those-of-allan-bryant-jr-or-kenneth-jones/ a...
Episode 113: Netta Fornario
2023/11/24
Episode 113: Netta Fornario This week Emma brings us the mysterious story of Netta Fornario, who was found dead on the isle of Iona in November 1929. Emma talks of Netta's fascination with the spiritual and occult and of the odd behaviour she displayed during her time on Iona. We also hear of the peculiar scene where Netta was found, leading to further suspicion around occult practices. Emma tells us of the speculation around a cleansing ritual gone wrong and also of marks on the body that may suggest a more sinister end. Case research by Emma Taylor Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://beccamcallisternews.wordpress.com/2020/04/21/fior/ https://www.strangehistory.net/2013/02/27/the-mostly-lost-writings-of-netta-fornariomac-tylermarie-fornario/ https://viewfromthebighills.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-terrible-case-of-healing-death-of.html https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/555841/strange-1920s-death-iona-scotland-nora-emily-fornario https://www.shetlandarts.org/blog/the-mysterious-death-of-netta-fornario https://medium.com/@anncarney51/the-strange-death-of-netta-fornario-b4d6817d7e6f https://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/occult/netta-fornario-ionas-occult-mystery/ https://www.historicmysteries.com/netta-fornario/ https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/191667869/marie-emily-fornario https://journalnews.com.ph/a-mystical-island-and-the-mysterious-death-of-the-occultist-netta-fornario/ https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2011/06/20/review-gothic-magic/
Episode 112: James 'Jimmy' Hassard
2023/11/17
Episode 112: James 'Jimmy' Hassard This week Joannagh tells us about the case of James 'Jimmy' Hassard, who was found dead in the village of Caol, near Fort William, on 18 February 1989. Joannagh tells us how, although Jimmy had suffered injuries consistent with an assault, there was no apparent motive for the crime. We hear of the long investigations spanning many decades and the appeals made by tthe Police through the years. Joannagh also tells of the lines of inquiry the police still wish to follow in the hope of finally solving this crime. Case research by Joannagh Shanks Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://visitfortwilliam.co.uk/pages/the-village-of-caol-in-fort-william-075a44c2 https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0005085/19900118/239/0002 https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0003741/19890410/005/0005 https://www.ambaile.org.uk/asset/18077/#:~:text=The%20first%20houses%20in%20Caol,be%20seen%20in%20the%20background. https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL%2F0000578%2F19890220&page=5&article=094&stringtohighlight=james+hassard+caol https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13146115.police-still-baffled-1989-murder-highlands/ https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/past-times/3965208/jimmy-hassard-highlands-murder/ https://www.scotsman.com/news/police-to-re-open-james-hassard-murder-files-1704722 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11451559 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11396668 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11283902 https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000540/19910218/041/0003 a href="https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000578/19890221/031/0002" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer...
Bonus Episode: Interview with Pat Wertheim
2023/11/10
Bonus Episode: Interview with Pat Wertheim In this special bonus episode, Emma and Joannagh speak with Pat Wertheim, an expert in fingerprint analysis techniques, who became involved in the trial of Shirley McKie. Shirley McKie was a Detective Constable with Strathclyde Police who was suspended from duty and charged with perjury following findings in the case of Marion Ross, covered in Episode 111. Pat talks of his backround with fingerprint analysis and goes into detail of how his testimony was key to Shirley McKie's defence. Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise
Episode 111: Shirley McKie
2023/11/03
Episode 111: Shirley McKie This week Joannagh tells us about the case of Shirley McKie, previously alluded to in Episode 108: Marion Ross. We hear how, during the murder investigation of Marion Ross in which Detective Constable Shirley McKie was assigned, events occurred which would result in Shirley herself being investigated. Joannagh describes how Shirley fought to prove her innocence by engaging experts who would cast doubt on the evidence against her and ultimately on key evidence of the Marion Ross investigation. Case research by Joannagh Shanks Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=b5e986a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7 https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=739286a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7 https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=9be186a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7 https://www.theguardian.com/media/2001/jul/09/mondaymediasection4 https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/apr/18/ukcrime.features11 http://www.shirleymckie.com/index.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/605129.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/04_05_06_mckiereport.pdf http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/04_05_06_precogone.pdf http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4986570.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/684563.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/343940.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1885505.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2193058.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3346933.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3606151.stm a...
Episode 110: Tony Parsons
2023/10/27
Episode 110: Tony Parsons This week Emma brings us the story of Tony Parsons, a 63-year-old Father and Grandfather who was killed in September 2017. We hear how, as a keen cyclist and cancer survivor, Tony had decided to complete a charity cycle of 104 miles. It was whilst on this cycle that Tony would go missing. Emma describes the years long search for Tony, which included initial mountain rescue, air support and dog units as well as later periodic appeals, including a feature on Crimewatch. We hear how an anonymous tip led to the identification of persons of interest in Tony's disappearance, and how the quick thinking of a confidante of one of these individuals would lead to the breaking of the case. Case research by Emma Taylor Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41537102 https://planetradio.co.uk/forth/local/news/re-appeal-information-cyclist-missing-since-september/ https://road.cc/content/news/249293-police-scotland-renew-appeal-find-missing-cyclist-first-anniversary https://www.ross-shirejournal.co.uk/news/family-renews-appeal-to-trace-cyclist-reported-missing-in-highlands-three-years-ago-213908/ https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3279069/tony-parsons-missing-clackmannanshire-fort-william/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-45663082 https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23747298.driver-killed-charity-cyclist-tony-parsons-jailed-12-years/ https://www.alloaadvertiser.com/news/23747296.tony-parsons-twins-jailed-total-17-years-cyclists-death/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-66317438 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/alexander-mckellar-sentence-tony-parsons-b2400145.html https://news.sky.com/story/killer-driver-alexander-mckellar-caught-after-taking-girlfriend-to-peat-bog-grave-where-he-had-buried-charity-cyclist-tony-parsons-12928441 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-red-bull-can-solved-30608494 https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/6526029/missing-tony-parsons-bridge-of-orchy-police-dig/ https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-red-bull-can-solved-30608494 https://www.obantimes.co.uk/2021/01/15/human-remains-found-near-bridge-of-orchy-confirmed-as-missing-man-tony-parsons/ https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands-islands/3096889/family-of-cyclist-anthony-parsons-still-need-answers-as-they-lay-him-to-rest/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/19012817.human-remains-found-argyll-bute-confirmed-missing-cyclist-tony-parsons/ https://news.stv.tv/west-central/cyclist-tony-parsons-killed-by-drink-driver-on-a82-remembered-as-generous-and-friendly-family-man https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12433659/Complaints-police-handling-probe-death-charity-cyclist-Tony-Parsons-examined-watchdog.html https://www.scotland.police.uk/what-s-happening/news/2023/july/two-men-convicted-in-connection-with-the-death-of-tony-parsons-who-went-missing-in-2017/ https://road.cc/content/news/family-sue-driver-who-killed-cyclist-then-hid-body-302881 https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23686444.red-bull-can-helped-find-body-missing-cyclist-tony-parsons/ https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/family-tragic-tony-parsons-thank-26322528 https://www.ross-shirejournal.co.uk/news/family-renews-appeal-to-trace-cyclist-reported-missing-in-highlands-three-years-ago-213908/ https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/ex-fiancee-slams-sentence-pair-30815716 br...
Bonus Episode: Interview with Steven Keogh
2023/10/13
Bonus Episode: Interview with Steven Keogh In this special bonus episode, Emma and Joannagh speak with Scotland Yard ex-detective and author Steven Keogh about his book: Murder Investigation Team: Jack the Ripper: A 21st Century Investigation. Steve tells us about his background in the Metropolitan Police, his work on his brilliant new novel, how the National Crime Agency assisted in building a profile of Jack the Ripper for the first time and we stray onto other important topics such as media reporting of high profile cases i.e. Nicola Bulley, institutionalised attitudes within the police, domestic abuse and more. Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise
Episode 109: Jill Barclay
2023/10/06
Episode 109: Jill Barclay This week Emma brings us the story of Jill Barclay, a 47-year-old mother of two from Aberdeen, who would be killed in a horrendous attack in September 2022. We hear about the quick police work that uncovered the identity of the killer and the attempts he made to evade capture. Emma tells us of the impact this crime had in the wider community, with activist groups organising events to demand action in making the streets safer and preventing violence against women. Case research by Emma Taylor Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/jill-barclay-cause-of-death-murder-mum-found-dead-aberdeen-3871493 https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/22311409.police-charge-22-year-old-man-womans-death-aberdeen/ https://www.gofundme.com/f/purchase-demolition-of-the-gatehouse-dyce https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10726210/rhys-bennett-sentence-reduced-age-murder-jill-barclay/ https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/im-buying-house-girlfriend-raped-30120025 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12119927/Brutal-killer-burned-mother-two-alive-raping-jailed-life.html https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/haunting-cctv-terrified-mum-shes-30066593 https://news.stv.tv/north/jill-barclay-rhys-bennett-attacked-raped-and-murdered-deeply-loved-mum-of-two-in-dyce https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/heartbroken-family-jill-barclay-say-30063999 https://www.copfs.gov.uk/about-copfs/news/24-05-man-jailed-for-life-for-rape-and-murder-of-mother-of-two-in-aberdeen/ https://judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/sentences-and-opinions/2023/05/24/hma-v-rhys-bennett https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jill-barclays-murder-triggered-demands-30068052 a href="https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1774019/jill-barclay-rape-murder-aberdeen" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer...
Episode 108: Marion Ross
2023/09/29
Episode 108: Marion Ross This week Joannagh tells us about the murder of Marion Ross, a 51-year-old woman from Kilmarnock.Described as a quiet and private woman, Marion would be found dead in her home in January 1997 after a brutal attack.We hear how the forensic investigation uncovered a list of potential suspects, but also resulted in some unexpected findings.Joannagh describes the case that was made against the accused along with the outcome of the trial.We then hear how fresh evidence was eventually presented, which would call the entire investigation into question. Case research by Joannagh ShanksProduced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh ShanksEditing by Joannagh ShanksMusic by Tribe of NoiseMurder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12083485.news-digest/ http://www.shirleymckie.com/documents/McKayExsmall.pdf https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12324918.expert-tells-jury-of-spinsters-horrific-death/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12324894.murder-trial-jury-told-cousin-was-held/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12321475.spinsters-killer-jailed-for-life/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12326492.murder-accused-had-tin-for-years/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12325470.murder-trial-hears-of-fingerprint-theory/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12324561.murder-trial-hears-of-stranger-on-doorstep/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12321264.murder-trial-told-of-gifts-bribe/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12321634.accused-tells-of-being-in-victims-home/ https://www.theguardian.com/media/2001/jul/09/mondaymediasection4 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/891255.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/884895.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/822421.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2193058.stm a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2193058.stm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer...
Episode 107: Annie Irvine
2023/09/22
Episode 107: Annie Irvine This week Emma brings us a lesser known case from 1974, the killing of 57-year-old Grandmother Annie Irvine, in Paisley. Emma tells us of the impact the case had on locals, who described being 'sickened' by the crime, and some of those involved in the investigation, who described the killing as 'repulsive' and 'gruesome'. We hear how, despite the brutality of the killing, there are few available reports on the case from the time and how, despite a large scale manhunt, there was limited progress in the case. Emma details how the case has been periodically reviewed in an attempt to utilise modern forensic methods to gain new insights in to the killing and, hopefully, deliver justice for Annie. Case research by Emma Taylor Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/fresh-investigation-into-brutal-stabbing-of-granny-1342560 https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13074390.cold-case-police-look-brutal-1974-killing/ http://www.unsolved-murders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=609&termRef=Annie%20Irvine https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/unsolved-murder-paisley-granny-mutilated-27687535 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/annies-murder-most-repulsive-detective-2547529 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/neighbour-recalls-brutal-murder-paisley-2547551
Episode 105: June Cruickshank and George Forbes
2023/09/07
Episode 105: June Cruickshank and George Forbes This week Emma tells us of the killings of 2 children in Aberdeen in the 1960's, 6-year-old June Cruickshank and 7-year-old George Forbes. Emma describes how June was found in a critical condition after a seemingly random act of violence with no clear motive. June would die a short time later. We hear how there were very few leads in the case, with appeals being made to the public at football matches and through newspaper articles and TV interviews. Emma tells us how the case hit a dead end until, nearly 3 years later, the killer would strike again. Case research by Emma Taylor Produced by Emma Taylor & Joannagh Shanks Editing by Joannagh Shanks Music by Tribe of Noise Murder She Spoke Youtube Page - https://www.youtube.com/@MurderSheSpokePod Sources of research: Blood & Granite by Norman Adams https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+murderer+of+six-year-old+June+was+discovered+almost+by+accident.-a0647766170 https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/archives/news/15622/city-of-blood/?1=2 https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-press-and-journal-aberdeen-and-aberdeenshire/20210108/281771336823170

Podcast reviews

Read Murder She Spoke podcast reviews


4.9 out of 5
34 reviews
★★★★★
NOLAAmelia 2022/04/13
Quickly became a favorite
I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts, but this show has quickly become one of my favorites. I love that there are so many stories I haven’t heard...
★★★★★
Lorimacster 2021/09/15
A great wee listen….
I’m originally from Hamilton, Scotland; lived in the US for past 21 years. Came across this podcast when a friend told me they had listened to the Ama...
★★★★★
divonut 2021/07/16
Wonderful Podcast
I love the rapport between the two ladies. They are compassionate when telling the story and like the funny or interesting tidbits they tell after the...
★★★★★
LisaEss 2021/06/04
So happy I found this podcast
Joannagh and Emma are amazing, compassionate women who bring heart to their stories. As well as being a crime junkie, I’m also something of an accent ...
★★★★★
Azulamor40 2021/04/10
Looking forward to a binge
I listen to a lot of true crime and scary spooky horror podcasts and I’m always looking for new ones. I’m so glad I stumbled upon this one looking for...
★★★★★
Madison1809 2021/01/29
Love it!
You girls are so great! So happy I found this you, I’ve been binging and am so obsessed! Such a well done podcast in every way.
★★★★★
cjf0257 2021/01/03
Great great great!!
Great show, great hosts! It’s a YES from me!
★★★★★
Malice (Podcast) 2020/11/13
This is a MUST Listen
Joannagh and Emma are supremely insightful and being such a wealth of knowledge and research to their cases. And if the show being incredible isn’t en...
★★★★★
Arghie 2020/09/06
So THIS is a keeper...
Such a great show. The work they put into it is obviously a labor of love. The research, the writing, the pacing, the consistent excellent show. Joann...
★★★★★
Etceteraetceteraetcetera 2020/08/22
Highly recommended
Never missed an episode. The stories and research are emboldened by the hosts’ keen dialogue and often entertaining interaction. Always well delivered...
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