Advertise on podcast: Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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★★★★★

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education. Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement. About the Hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country. Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away. Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing. Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner. Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity. Why Listen? Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

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39 - Did They Learn It or Did We Scaffold It?

2026/10/14

Scaffolding is an essential part of effective teaching, but how do we know when students have truly learned something versus simply performed well with support? In this episode of Assess THAT!, Tom and Natalie explore the often-overlooked distinction between supporting student learning and gathering accurate evidence of achievement. From teacher prompting and guided questioning to graphic organizers and worked examples, they unpack how well-intentioned instructional support can sometimes obscure what students actually know and can do independently. The challenge isn't to stop scaffolding; it's to recognize how the conditions under which students demonstrate learning influence what we can confidently conclude from the evidence. The conversation examines the delicate balance between providing enough support to move learning forward and knowing when to gradually remove that support. Tom and Natalie explore why independence shouldn't automatically become an achievement criterion, how scaffolded and independent evidence serve different purposes, and what this means for formative assessment, grading, and professional judgment. They also offer practical ways teachers can track the conditions under which learning is demonstrated without creating complicated assessment systems. Ultimately, this episode challenges educators to ask a deceptively simple question: Are we assessing what students have learned, or what we've helped them produce? Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE WEBSITE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

38 - Start the School Year Right (5 Assessment Decisions Every Teacher Should Make)

2026/09/28

At the end of the school year, we encouraged you to look back with our End-of-Year Assessment Audit to consider what worked, what didn’t, and what you might want to change. Now it’s time to turn that reflection forward. Before the gradebook starts filling up and familiar routines take over, the beginning of a new school year gives us a brief opportunity to be intentional about the assessment culture we want to create. In this episode, we unpack five assessment decisions every teacher should make at the start of the school year: what learning actually matters, what evidence you’ll trust, what proficiency looks like, what happens when students aren’t there yet, and what role students will play in the assessment process. This isn’t about overhauling everything you do. It’s about making a few deliberate decisions now that can lead to more accurate assessment, more meaningful feedback, and more confident learners throughout the year. Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE WEBSITE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

37 - End of Year Assessment Audit (10 Questions Every Teacher Should Ask)

2026/07/06

As a school year is completed, it's natural to reflect on what worked, what didn't, and what you'd like to do differently next year. But beyond lessons, units, and classroom management, there's another area that deserves our attention: assessment. In this episode, Tom and Natalie guide listeners through an end-of-year assessment audit built around 10 powerful questions designed to help teachers examine the effectiveness, accuracy, and impact of their assessment practices. From the quality of evidence we gathered to the role feedback played in student growth, this conversation is all about learning from the year that was. Along the way, we explore whether grades truly reflected achievement, where compliance may have quietly influenced reporting, how students developed as self-assessors, and which assessment routines delivered the greatest return on time and energy. Rather than encouraging a complete overhaul, this episode helps educators identify a few meaningful adjustments that can make next year more accurate, more sustainable, and more supportive of student learning. Before you close the door on this school year, take a moment to learn from the evidence your own classroom produced. The End-of-Year Assessment Audit The Grading Reform Leadership Lab Description Book a Call with Tom to discuss participating in the Grading Reform Leadership Lab Check Out Edsby Destinations Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

36 - Why Self-Assessment Fails (And How Students Actually Learn Quality)

2026/06/17

Self-assessment has become one of the most widely embraced practices in education. We want students to reflect on their learning, understand success criteria, monitor their progress, and take ownership of their growth. But what if we've underestimated how difficult self-assessment actually is? In this episode, Tom and Natalie explore the idea that students don't become effective self-assessors simply because we provide rubrics, post success criteria, or ask reflective questions. Instead, they argue that the ability to recognize quality (what researchers call evaluative judgment) must be intentionally developed through exposure, comparison, discussion, and calibration. Together, they unpack why success criteria often fall short, how expert blind spots can unintentionally create barriers for learners, and why exemplars, feedback, and calibration conversations are so critical to helping students see quality more clearly. Along the way, they share practical strategies educators can use immediately to strengthen students' ability to judge their own work, use feedback more effectively, and become more independent learners. If you've ever wondered why students struggle to revise, self-assess, or accurately gauge the quality of their work, this episode offers a fresh perspective and a practical path forward. The Grading Reform Leadership Lab Description Book a Call with Tom to discuss participating in the Grading Reform Leadership Lab Check Out Edsby Destinations Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG • • Natalie on IG

35 - Why Grading Reform Fails in Schools (And What Leaders Get Wrong)

2026/05/25

What happens when grading reform moves beyond theory and starts colliding with real people, real beliefs, and real resistance? In this episode, Tom and Natalie unpack the leadership side of grading reform, the part that often gets overlooked in conversations about standards-based grading, assessment reform, and reporting practices. They explore why so many initiatives lose momentum, not because the ideas are flawed, but because leaders are navigating competing pressures without a fully defensible process to anchor the work. Throughout the conversation, they dig into the realities of leading change in schools: staff pushback, parent concerns, mixed messaging, and the tension of trying to stay grounded while moving a system forward. Tom and Natalie discuss the importance of clarity, credibility, and coherence in leadership, why pushback is not a sign of failure, and how strong assessment leadership requires more than technical solutions. Whether you’re a principal, district leader, instructional coach, or teacher helping shape grading conversations in your school, this episode offers a candid and practical look at what real leadership in grading reform actually requires. The Grading Reform Leadership Lab Description Book a Call with Tom to discuss participating in the Grading Reform Leadership Lab Check Out Edsby Destinations Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

34 - Why Participation Grades Don’t Belong in Your Gradebook (And What To Do Instead)

2026/04/29

Participation grades are still widely used in education. In this episode, Tom and Nat challenge the assumption that participation belongs in academic grades by unpacking a critical distinction: participation may support learning, but it is not the same as learning. Through a candid and thought-provoking conversation, they explore what participation grades often end up measuring: personality, confidence, compliance, and cultural norms, rather than actual understanding. The result? Grades that can unintentionally distort achievement and disadvantage certain learners. But this episode doesn’t stop at critique. Tom and Nat reframe participation as something too important to reduce to a number, offering practical ways to make it more inclusive, intentional, and aligned with sound assessment practices. From expanding how participation is defined to separating it from academic achievement and using it as a tool for feedback and growth, this conversation will challenge your thinking and give you concrete ways to better support student engagement, without compromising the integrity of your grades. While this episode is timely, given the recent announcement by the Ontario government, it was recorded on March 27, before the government's "Putting Student Achievement First Act, 2026" was announced in April 2026. Check Out Edsby Destinations Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X

33 - Interview w/ Jon Asbury, Edsby Destinations

2026/04/19

In this episode, Tom & Natalie are joined by Jon Asbury, co-founder of Edsby, to discuss their new platform, "Edsby Destinations." Previously, Jon was one of the three co-founders of a company called SoftArc. SoftArc built an email and collaboration system called FirstClass back in the 90s that took the world by storm and is credited as, among other things, the first learning management system. Edsby Destinations is a scalable, competency-based assessment and reporting system designed to help K-12 districts and state governments clearly articulate and track what students are learning, where they are headed, and how to get them there. Destinations aligns performance to local outcome frameworks and standards, enabling a student “GPS for learning” with real-time educator visibility into progress against defined success criteria. Teachers, students, and families benefit from clear, student-friendly language, multimedia evidence capture, two-way feedback, and dashboards that illuminate learning pathways at individual, class, and regional levels. Designed for large K-12 organizations and linked with existing SISes and LMSes, it ensures assessment practices scale with transparency and consistency. Check Out Edsby Destinations Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

32 - Why Feedback Fails (And What Actually Makes It Work)

2026/03/30

In this episode, Tom and Nat take a hard look at one of the most celebrated and misunderstood elements of teaching: feedback. While research consistently shows that feedback can significantly improve student achievement, the reality in many classrooms is very different. Too often, feedback is given but not used, leaving teachers frustrated and students unchanged. Together, they unpack five key reasons feedback fails, including the impact of grades, cognitive overload, poor timing, over-directiveness, and the emotional side of how feedback lands with students. More importantly, this episode shifts the conversation from effort to design. Tom and Nat explore what actually makes feedback effective (not in theory, but in practice), offering clear, actionable principles that help ensure feedback leads to thinking, revision, and growth. If you’ve ever wondered why your feedback isn’t getting the results you hoped for, this episode will challenge your assumptions and give you a more intentional, impactful way forward. Feedback Flow Mini-Course Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

31 - Averaging Is Statistically Convenient and Educationally Misleading

2026/03/16

Averaging feels neutral, objective, and mathematically sound, but in the context of student learning, it can quietly distort the story a grade is meant to tell. In this episode, Tom and Natalie take a deep dive into the statistics that dominate most gradebooks (mean, median, and mode) and unpack why tools designed to summarize stable data can mislead us when applied to something as dynamic as human learning. Along the way, they explore the hidden problems of equal weighting, outliers, small sample sizes, and the false precision created by decimals that suggest more accuracy than the evidence can truly support. Through practical examples and thought-provoking scenarios, Tom and Natalie show how averaging can punish growth, hide mastery, and cement early struggles into final judgments. But this episode isn’t anti-math; it’s about measurement clarity. They explore the limited situations where averaging can be helpful and offer practical alternatives for blending statistical summaries with professional judgment so that grades communicate what they’re supposed to: a meaningful and defensible interpretation of student learning. Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

30 - Assessment Literacy Is the Real "Teacher Shortage"

2026/03/05

Across education, we hear constant concern about teacher shortages. On the surface, it seems like recruitment pipelines, retention rates, burnout, and workload are the issues. But beneath those very real challenges lies a quieter, more systemic issue: many educators have never received deep, sustained support for developing assessment literacy. When teachers lack clarity around evidence, criteria, professional judgment, and grading accuracy, everything becomes heavier. Grading expands, decision fatigue sets in, parent conversations feel tense, and confidence erodes. In this episode, Tom & Natalie argue that strengthening assessment literacy isn’t just about improving grading practices, it’s about stabilizing the profession itself. When teachers understand what counts as evidence, how to separate behaviour from achievement, and how to make defensible judgments about learning, workload becomes more manageable, and confidence grows. Assessment literacy reduces friction, restores professional agency, and creates coherence across classrooms and schools. If we want teachers to stay (and thrive) this is foundational work we can’t afford to overlook. Assess THAT on YouTube! 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

29 - Lowering the Bar Isn’t Compassion: Rethinking Assessment and Care

2026/02/16

In this episode, Tom and Nat explore a tension many educators are feeling right now: our deep desire to be compassionate in assessment and the unintended consequences that can arise when compassion gets confused with lowering expectations. Responding to student stress, disengagement, and inequity is real and necessary work. But when clarity fades, standards soften, and expectations become negotiable, students often lose the very signals they need to grow, build confidence, and trust the learning process. Through stories, reflection, and practical examples, this conversation reframes rigour and care as partners rather than opposites. Tom and Nat argue that the most humane assessment practices are grounded in clear expectations, honest feedback, and meaningful support, not diluted standards. If you’ve ever wrestled with flexibility, fairness, or how to hold the bar while honouring students’ realities, this episode invites you to rethink what compassion truly requires in assessment. 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

28 - AI Didn’t Break Assessment; It Exposed It (and What That Means for Integrity)

2026/02/02

AI has sparked fear, urgency, and a wave of reactionary policies in schools, but what if the real issue isn’t the technology itself? In this episode, Tom and Natalie argue that AI didn’t break assessment; it exposed long-standing weaknesses in task design, clarity, and how we define academic integrity. Rather than framing AI as a cheating problem to be solved through bans and detection tools, they invite listeners to reconsider what meaningful evidence of learning actually looks like in an AI-present world. Through real-world composite examples and reflective dialogue, this episode reframes academic integrity as a design and culture issue, not a policing one. Tom and Natalie explore how clarity, transparency, and intentional assessment practices reduce misuse, strengthen trust, and keep learning at the center. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by AI or unsure how to respond without compromising your values, this conversation offers a grounded, assessment-literate path forward. A.I. Won't Pass this Test Webinar 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

27 - The Hidden Cost of Implementation Errors in Assessment & Grading

2026/01/19

When educators say, “We tried that… and it didn’t work,” the conversation often stops there. But what if the problem isn’t the idea itself (e.g., feedback, reassessment, rubrics, or standards-based grading) but the way it was implemented? In this episode of Assess THAT, Tom & Nat explore the often-overlooked distinction between sound assessment ideas and the implementation choices that bring them to life. Through concrete classroom and leadership examples, they unpack why promising practices are so frequently abandoned before they’ve had a real chance to succeed. Taking a coaching-oriented lens, this conversation invites educators to slow down, reflect, and ask better questions before dismissing powerful approaches to assessment and grading. You’ll hear about common implementation errors - surface adoption, misaligned beliefs, missing conditions, and unrealistic expectations - and how refining implementation can restore trust in practices that genuinely support student learning. This episode is a reminder that implementation is not a checklist, but a professional design challenge worth getting right. 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

26 - Motivation and Assessment: Designing the Conditions for Learning with Josh Ogilvie

2026/01/05

In this episode, Tom & Natalie are joined by CAC consultant Josh Ogilvie for a thoughtful and energizing conversation about the relationship between student motivation and sound assessment practices. Josh challenges the idea that motivation is something students either have or don’t have, and instead invites us to look closely at the conditions we design in classrooms (e.g., through purpose, choice, feedback, and assessment) that either invite students in or quietly push them out. Together, they unpack common misconceptions about engagement and explore why motivation is often a signal about design, not effort or character. They also dig deeply into physical education as a powerful yet often misunderstood context for assessment. Josh shares why assessment in PE is uniquely emotional and visible for students, how traditional grading practices can unintentionally undermine confidence, and what more human, learning-focused assessment can look like in practice. Whether you teach PE or not, this conversation offers practical insights into how assessment can build agency, confidence, and motivation, rather than compliance, and why getting these details right matters more than we often realize. 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

25 - The Ghosts of Grading Past, Present & Future (Rethinking Assessment Through A Christmas Carol)

2025/12/15

In this special holiday episode of Assess THAT with Tom & Nat, Tom and Natalie explore grading through the timeless lens of Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol. Guided by the ghosts of grading past, present, and yet to come, they unpack why grading is so emotionally charged, why change often feels threatening, and how our own experiences as students continue to shape the way we evaluate learning today. From fear-based grading practices to the identity-laden nature of grades, this episode invites listeners to reflect honestly on the stories that live beneath their current systems. Shifting the focus from grading debates to what truly drives learning, Tom and Natalie make the case that assessment (not grading) is the real engine of equity, motivation, and student growth. They explore what happens when assessment is treated as a living process rather than a set of events, and offer a future-focused vision that centres student voice, confidence, and accurate learning stories. Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or system-level decision-maker, this episode provides a powerful framework for starting meaningful conversations about grading and reimagining what’s possible for learners. 🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected] PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC) NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

Podcast reviews

Read Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning) podcast reviews

4.9 out of 5

39 reviews

★★★★★

FutureReadyTeaching 2024/10/06

🔥 This podcast

Love this podcast and what both Tom and Nat stand for. Equity for students through assessment, feedback, grading , and learning.

★★★★★

It's a process 2021/11/19

Angora Amparo

Out of all of the educational podcast out there Tom’s is the one that’s I have to listen to! His don’t @, then interview with guests and assessment co...

★★★★★

Jo spank 2021/08/17

Brilliant

Without question my favorite education podcast. Tom brings a depth of expertise that makes listening worth every minute spent. Fabulous interviews wit...

★★★★★

AlwaysLearning AlwaysEvolving 2021/07/14

High quality content that inspires!

Tom does an amazing job selected guests and navigating the conversation to give educators the strategies and tools we need to be successful! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐...

★★★★★

Flame Kicks 2020/09/24

Tom Schimmer Podcast

Tom Schimmer is a leader in assessment practices. His podcast is timely as teachers struggle with how to assess remote learning, while making sure it ...

★★★★★

Keepin' It Slow 2020/09/23

Great listen for novice and seasoned educators.

Solid mix of learning and leadership with assessment and equity all added to the conversation.

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