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Creative Renaissance  Comedian Denise Scott and creative ageing researcher Associate Professor Helen English explore the benefits of tapping into your creative side – proving it’s never too late to start, and why your creative best may still be yet to come. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Join Jean Kittson for the seventh season of DARE: The time of your life (formerly Life’s Booming), called Better With Age.  Too often ageing is painted as decline. In reality, Australians are discovering new creative energy, fresh purpose, and unexpected second acts later in life.  Denise Scott is a beloved comedian, writer and actor who landed her first lead television role at 67, in ABC’s Mother and Son, earning a Logie nomination for her performance as Maggie. After coming through breast cancer treatment, Denise is now back on stage for the first time in 10 years with her acclaimed show, Tickety Boo, bringing her trademark honesty and humour to audiences across the country.   Associate Professor Helen English is an academic at the University of Newcastle, whose work explores ageing, wellbeing and the benefits of artistic expression later in life. A former musician and music educator of 20 years, she founded a creative ageing research program in 2019 and later formed The Unforgettables, a choir supporting people with dementia and their carers through music, connection and community.    Watch DARE: The time of your life on YouTube    Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Apple Podcasts  Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency -- TRANSCRIPT:​ Jean Kittson: Welcome back to the podcast, DARE: The time of your life, formerly Life’s Booming, brought to you by Australian seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. This season is called Better With Age, where we are flipping the script on what it means to be older, and chatting with over-50s who are rewriting the ageing rule book.  In fact, they're erasing the rule book. They're telling rules to rack off! And in this episode, we are exploring the benefits of a Creative Renaissance, and how you can have one, too. To help shed some light, meet University of Newcastle associate Professor, Helen English.  Prior to becoming an academic, Helen worked for 20 years as a musician and music educator. In 2019, she founded a creative ageing research program with fellow academics from the universities of Newcastle and Melbourne, focusing on creative activity programs that promote wellbeing and brain health in older adults. Helen also formed a dementia choir known as The Unforgettables, to provide people with dementia and their carers a creative outlet and social connection.  And joining Helen is writer, actor and comedian and dear friend, Denise Scott, who has been providing brilliant comedy on stage and screen and making us laugh for decades. But you might be surprised to discover it wasn't until the tender age of 67 that Denise landed her first lead role on TV on ABC's remake of Mother and Son, which earned her a Logie nomination for her role as Maggie.  At about the same time, she was diagnosed with breast cancer and after coming through the other side, she is now back on stage with a brand new comedy show, Tickety Boo, that's taking Australia by storm. Denise and Helen, I am so thrilled to have you both with us on the show.  Jean Kittson: Denise, you are all right to be here after performing last night? You're not feeling a little tired or anything.  Denise Scott: Mm. No, no, I'm lying. Jean Kittson: You don't– we're all lying. It's like five o'clock in the morning and so, no. Scotty, we've known each other for a really long time.  Denise Scott: Very! Jean Kittson: And I know you've been creative for your entire life in all aspects of your life really. But in terms of your work, how has your creativity changed over the years? Denise Scott: I consider creativity a very basic kind of thing that you just, like I grew up in a house where craft was the going thing. I learned to knit and embroider and stitch things together. And that was– and I found that a creative outlet and still do, although, you know, because you've seen my show that I also colour in. Jean Kittson: Yeah.  Denise Scott: Which is not, it's not creative. That's the joy of it. It requires no effort, brain or otherwise, you just…  Jean Kittson: …choosing colours. Sure.  Denise Scott: Oh it, you just, you know. No, it's not. But as far as my work goes, I have been– when I got this last show together, this show, current show, which is my first solo show in 10 years, it was a really different approach. Like I used to have an office and I'd go and sit in that or I'd hire, rent a room somewhere, go and sit in that and it was like school assignment and create my scripts that way. And this time, I lay in my bed, which is one of my favourites. It's so bad my obsession with just lying in bed. I know no shame. I know everyone who walks past, because our bedroom window faces onto the street. I still, and I hand write a few things. A few ideas and then, I don’t know, I'll colour in, listen to a podcast or something, write something else. So yeah, it's a lot more relaxed.  Jean Kittson: It sounds so relaxed. I mean, you write a few ideas and then you go and perform them or do you fine tune? How do you fine tune them? Because I suppose once you would've just done that at a computer, would you just  Denise Scott: Yes.  Jean Kittson: Like write every pause and…  Denise Scott: …when I was doing treatment for cancer, which is the last few years, I didn't like screens. I just didn't wanna look at them for any reason.  Jean Kittson:Yeah.  Denise Scott: And I, yeah. Started handwriting. Jean Kittson: Handwriting again. Do you think there's a connection, a different connection between the brain and the hand? Or is it just purely because you wanted to lay in bed… not have anything on your lap? Denise Scott: Oh no. I'd have my colouring in on my lap. Oh, don't you worry. I think it's just– yes. I think there is a connection. Jean Kittson: When you got the lead, this first lead role at 67.  Denise Scott: Yeah.  Jean Kittson: In Mother and Son, huge, a huge opportunity and a huge show, and two series and a nomination. You were also diagnosed with breast cancer at exactly the same time.  Denise Scott: Yeah. It was a heady combination. It was a really heady combination and in hindsight. I would not do that again. Jean Kittson: Wouldn't you?  Denise Scott: No, but at the time I thought your brain's just going, oh, well, in two weeks time I'm going to live in Sydney for three months and film this. And I'm, you know, very excited. And even though the rage against me because I was daring to play Ruth Cracknall’s iconic role. There was that going on. But yeah, the chemo, yeah, that was full on and working every day. I'd have a day off a week. I'd have a chemo day and a chemo recovery day, and that meant the other three days of the week, I would have to film for 12 to 14 hours to get all the stuff done.  Jean Kittson: Gosh, I mean, you wouldn't do it again, but the distraction from your having the chemo. Denise Scott: I think that's the lesson I learned that really, I would say I dissociated. Like, the only way I could get through was to not feel anything. Like, to just, alright, you can't start feeling. Being aware of how hard you're finding this or any– because you're in it now and you've gotta just get through to the end. And I think that's taken me quite a long time to recover from.  Jean Kittson: Yeah. To be in that sort of place of denial.  Denise Scott: And I think the colouring in…  Jean Kittson: Yeah.  Denise Scott: …was to do with that as well. I just zoned out.  Jean Kittson: Yeah, it's like my mother used to play pokie machines because she said that it's the only time I don't worry about you kids. We were, you know, all 50 at the time. But, you know, like she just switched off by it. She only played the 10 cent one, but she used to play them and switch off. And I, you know, other people do Sudoku and just things that are sort of a bit mindless. You're just focused on that and you're not letting all other fear and grief and everything impose. And Helen, you are a researcher and you've researched creativity and how important it is for people in later life. Tell us about your research.  Helen English: Okay well, I've got quite a few different sort of research angles. I mainly like doing qualitative research where I interview people or hold focus groups about why they love their music group, mainly music groups, but also in art and what it gives them. And when you were just saying before about having to do the filming, and I was thinking about some of the recent interviews I was reading from someone who'd had, her son had a mental health disorder. Her husband was diagnosed with dementia, then she got cancer. And she said that every time something happened, it was her goal just to get back to music. And that kind of kept her going. So I think it can work like that. So in terms of the research, there's quite a lot to say that it is wonderful to be creative. We are– we get more creative as we get older, which is an excellent attribute and a superpower that we have. Getting involved in creative activities does get that sense of flow that you were kind of describing with the colouring in, except you are also being challenged. So it's a really a kind of a positive pleasure, but it's not a hedonic pleasure. It's a fulfilling sort of eudaimonic pleasure that you're getting. It's much more about fulfilling yourself and feeling that you have a sense of purpose, you have something to offer, you can make something for yourself and for others and share it. And that's– tha

Keeping yourself fit and healthy and in shape is vital for life’s long game. And no-one understands that more than celebrated chef Neil Perry, who chats with organisational psychologist Dr Amanda Ferguson about what it takes to survive the demanding restaurant game for more than 40 years. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Join Jean Kittson for the seventh season of DARE: The time of your life (formerly Life’s Booming), called Better With Age.  Too often ageing is painted as decline. In reality, Australians are living longer, healthier lives and reshaping what “older” looks like. This series flips the script and shows how ageing is not a dirty word but rather a time to be embraced, featuring interviews with extraordinary over 50s refusing to slip quietly into the background, who instead continue to survive and thrive in the long game of life. Neil Perry is Australia’s most decorated chef. The culinary genius behind Rockpool and winner of the 2024 World’s 50 Best Icon Award, Neil has spent 40 years at the very top of his craft, including his latest venture, the Margaret Family Group. Staying there hasn’t been accidental. It takes relentless passion, resilience, and an unwavering belief that what you put on the plate – and into your body – genuinely matters. Dr Amanda Ferguson is a registered psychologist, organisational psychologist, author and speaker, whose three-decade career has been devoted to helping people find meaning, motivation and wellbeing in work, life and relationships. – Watch DARE: The time of your life on YouTube    Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Apple Podcasts  Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency -- TRANSCRIPT:​ Jean Kittson: DARE: The time of your life, formerly Life's Booming, is brought to you by Australian Seniors in partnership with RSPCA. For more episodes of this and our Life's Booming series, visit seniors.com.au/podcast.  Hi, I'm Jean Kittson. Welcome to the latest season, Better with Age, where we are celebrating Australians who are living, working, and ageing on their own terms. No ageing stereotypes for them.  This week's episode is called Playing the Long Game, and no one exemplifies what that means more than our first guest, Neil Perry. With a career spanning more than four decades, he is one of our most influential chefs. Indeed, he's the only Australian to receive the prestigious World's 50 Best Restaurants Icon Award, the food oscars. The culinary genius behind Rockpool, and his latest venture, the Margaret Family Group, Neil has survived the often brutal hospitality world without disappearing or burning out. And joining him is Dr Amanda Ferguson, registered psychologist, organisational psychologist, author, and speaker whose career has been devoted to helping people find meaning, motivation, and wellbeing in work, life and relationships. Neil and Amanda, welcome to the podcast. Thank you.  Neil Perry: Thanks, Jean. Good to be here. Jean Kittson: Neil, the restaurant business is often very brutal, long hours, highly competitive, stressful, fickle market, lots of pressures, all that, not that I want you to feel any pressure from me about this, but you've not only survived, but you've thrived for over 40 years. So, what do you think is the key ingredient or the secret ingredient to your longevity?  Neil Perry: Well, I think just the enthusiasm of which I approach every day because, I mean, you know, it is an old cliche, but they say if you find a job you love doing, you'll never work a day in your life. And I am lucky enough to have found, you know, something that's intrinsic in lifestyle. So I kind of dream about food. I eat food, I wake up, I work in it. You know, my whole focus on a daily basis is about my restaurants, my staff and how we grow and continually evolve. So, I've kind of spent the last 51 years in the industry continually evolving rather than, you know, sort of deciding, oh my God, I've gotta change what I'm doing. I'm just day by day trying to do better than I did the day before. And that's a kind of mantra that we roll into the entire team so that they're always thinking about getting better and more focused and getting the best out of themselves and growing as people, which is really important. So, I think that's helped me keep an edge to continually keep thinking that. You know, I've got a role in the industry and I wanna keep moving forward. And, you know, tomorrow is another day and it's another day that I get an opportunity to be better than I was the day before.  Jean Kittson: And you translate that to your teams by the sound of it, that is important. Neil Perry: Until I was 25, I was working front of house and managing restaurants and running restaurants, which has kind of helped me become a restaurateur rather than just a chef. And then at 25 transitioned into the kitchen and it was really obvious to me that there tended to be a kind of ‘us and them’ culture in the restaurant business. And we see with a lot of things at the moment on chefs and the way they treat people and they have treated people, and particularly in Europe, that it can be a very hard place to be. But, I made a very conscious decision to try and make it, you know – more about the way my personality is anyway – but to make it a place where it was really, everyone working together as one team, no front and back of house. It was, you know, really everyone coming together to make sure that the most important person in the room was the customer – and that we were supporting each other. So through the care philosophy, which, you know, is a really simple word, but it embodies itself in so many things that we do. So, you know, we care about our incredible suppliers. They're the lifeblood of our restaurant. Our amazing farmers and fishermen and, you know, incredible vignerons and so forth. And then it's really about caring about the place in which we work, because I really love to have a restaurant that's as beautiful 10 or 15 years down the track as it is the day that it opens. More patina, of course, but like a great pair of shoes – loved and comfortable – and that's really important to me.  And then core to, I guess, the whole thing is we gotta care about each other. So we try to make sure that, you know, we're checking in. Are you okay? You know, are you doing your mise en place or can I help you set up the restaurant? And make sure that if we think somebody's coming in and they've got issues at home or with relationships, or even with a relationship within the restaurant, that we're trying to solve that and make sure that we can get to the point where we're all pulling in the same direction. And then for us, community's key. So caring about our community. We've always been involved in fundraisers and trying to help people that are less fortunate than us. We're in a very privileged position to be able to do that as restaurateurs and chefs.  And then care about the environment because if we don't have clean air and clean water and clean earth, we can't get that amazing produce. It's my role to make them better chefs, better waiters, better sommeliers, better managers. But I like to make them better people. I always say at every large staff gathering, probably most of them under 30, that, you know, my generation kind of sucked the marrow out of the world, and it's up to them to make sure that the next generation of leaders are held to account. So, I do try to get them to think about community, you know, sustainability and politics – and their role in it. And that makes them hopefully, you know, more rounded people.  Jean Kittson: Well, it sounds to me that longevity we're talking about and that success, so it would go the other way too. Do you get a lot of support from them? Because you give them so much care and attention and your expertise and you're bringing them up. And do they support you when there's challenges as well?  Neil Perry: Yeah, of course. I mean, I always say that I'm kind of like a vampire. So, you know, I run this amazing team of people with huge amounts of energy and youth and they need to be guided and sort of, you know, given opportunities in life. But in return, I get so much energy and so much joy from them that that actually keeps me young. I look through my eyes and I actually think that I'm their age, you know?  Jean Kittson: And Amanda, in your work, in different industries, do you see this teamwork as part of an essential ingredient as well in different industries? What helps your clients?  Dr Amanda Ferguson: Yeah. Every industry is different in terms of how much teamwork you're gonna have and gonna need. Certainly in Neil's area, you can see the necessity of people there physically, and yet we've got a lot of remote working now and a lot of organisations have pivoted that way. But I think, Neil, you were talking beautifully about a whole lot of organisational psychology concepts like growth mindset; that the growth factor of helping these younger people moving forward and growing. And we know that the growth mindset is important for all ages and you know, fundamental to performance anyway, but then to ageing performance, this engagement Neil's talking about, what makes him engaged and motivated internally. That's what we know, as we get older, matters even more than when we're younger. So a lot of your younger staff, they're really motivated by extrinsic, which is external reward, which is building their careers and gaining money and being able to put down any roots that they can do at the time of their lives. And yet, these internal motivations are what are driving us as we age increasingly, which is about contributing, which is the influence you're having, the legacy you're creating. And that cle

Broadcaster and comedian Wendy Harmer and positive psychologist Dr Tim Sharp (aka ‘Dr Happy’) lift the veil on relationships and explore what it takes to nurture our most important connections with our partners, friends, and with ourselves. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Join Jean Kittson for the seventh season of DARE: The time of your life (formerly Life’s Booming), called Better With Age.  Too often ageing is painted as decline. In reality, Australians are living longer, healthier lives and reshaping what “older” looks like. This series flips the script and shows how ageing is not a dirty word but rather a time to be embraced, featuring interviews with extraordinary over 50s refusing to slip quietly into the background. Wendy Harmer is a trailblazing comedian, broadcaster and journalist who has spent decades at the centre of Australian media and entertainment. Wendy first made her mark breaking new ground in Australia’s stand-up comedy scene before going on to become one of the country’s most recognisable media personalities and the author of bestselling books including Farewell My Ovaries. Australia’s own Dr Happy, Dr Tim Sharp is a leading positive psychologist, bestselling author and founder of The Happiness Institute, Australia’s first organisation dedicated to enhancing happiness. With a career spanning academia, clinical psychology and public speaking, he’s become one of the most recognised voices on mental health and wellbeing. Watch DARE: The time of your life on YouTube Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Apple Podcasts  Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency -- TRANSCRIPT: Jean Kittson: Welcome back to the podcast – DARE: The time of your life, formerly Life’s Booming, brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA.  I'm Jean Kittson, and this season is called Better with Age where we're flipping the script and showing how ageing is not a dirty word, but rather a time to be embraced. Australians are living longer, healthier lives, and this season celebrates over 50s who are pushing the boundaries of what ageing looks like and feels like. In this episode, we are lifting the veil on relationships and exploring what it takes to nurture our most important connections with our partners, friends, and with ourselves. We've probably all experienced how relationships shift over time. It's natural, of course, but it might surprise you to know just how important they are to our overall happiness and why it's vital to keep nurturing all relationships old and new.  Which brings me to our first guest, Wendy Harmer, who knows about the importance of friendships and relationships and making new ones as we age. I first met Wendy when we worked together back in the 80s, so we've been friends a long time. She's one of Australia's most beloved entertainers, a trailblazing, standup comedian, journalist, broadcaster, performer and bestselling author. Her books include the wonderful Pearly children's book series, as well as more adult titles like Farewell My Ovaries and her memoir Lies My Mirror Told Me.  And joining Wendy is Dr Tim Sharp, otherwise known as Dr Happy.  Tim is one of Australia's leading positive psychologists, and the founder and Chief Happiness officer at the Happiness Institute. Also a bestselling author, including The Happiness Handbook and his most recent Lost and Found. Tim has dedicated his career to helping people live happier and more flourishing lives. Tim and Wendy, welcome to the podcast. Thank you both for coming in.  Wendy Harmer: Great to be here, Jean.  Jean Kittson: Oh, it's lovely to have you both here.  Wendy Harmer: I've got to say, Tim, the first time I set eyes on this one, what a bombshell. She would've been on stage in a nurse's uniform at The Last Laugh Theatre Restaurant. It was, at the time, playing Nurse…  Jean Kittson: Pam Sandwich… Wendy Harmer:  …Pam Sandwich  Jean Kittson: …in Let the Blood Run Free.  Wendy Harmer: And this. All arms and legs and big boobs and blonde hair and falling over and doing all this amazing physical comedy. Everyone just adored Jean – and the men, we had to fight them off with a stick. Jean Kittson: Yeah. Well those were the days, weren't they? This is what friendship's all about Tim, right? Thanks Wendy. That was lovely of you to say that. I mean, we've known each other for, well, since the early 80s.  Wendy Harmer: It would have been about ‘83.  Jean Kittson: And you were on stage doing stand up. See, I was doing [characters] and you were amazing, what you were talking about, women’s things – topics for women, about women and relationships.  Wendy Harmer: That's right. Well, because when I first started out doing standup, it was really a bloke's domain and I thought, well, this, you know, this is ridiculous because, you know, women's lives are interesting too, and I mean, there's one thing that annoys me above anything else is saying women aren't funny. Like the idea, Tim, that you would say, ‘oh, the pet budgie can make me laugh. The dog can make me laugh, but a woman can't make me laugh.’ I mean, it really, I think it strikes to our humanity and I get really cross about that. So I've sort of been a bit of a campaigner with that, you know, rubber chook on a stick for many years. But you know, the idea, I know you have this happiness. You talk a lot about happiness. How important is laughter?  Dr Happy: Very important. Well, it's a general group, laughter, fun play, all of those things, which we too often underestimate and discount. Well, we sort of see them as a nice to have, but the research is pretty clear. It's super important for a good life. It's hard to live a best life, a thriving life, a flourishing life without laughter, without fun, without play. I mean, there are many other things as well, and I'm sure we'll get to some of those other things, but a hundred percent it is a very important contributor to living a really, really good quality life. Wendy Harmer: And it's interesting too, that our sense of humor. It's not universal at all. It's formed in that crucible of the family, or indeed your chosen family like Jean. You know, we chose each other as grownups to be a family. But that, you know, there is like the punny family, there's the practical joke family. There's, you know, each family has its own particular sense of humor, doesn't it?  Jean Kittson: Well, I think friendship is a really important way of maintaining humour in your life because you get together with friends to have a laugh, don't you, often?  Wendy Harmer: Yeah.  Jean Kittson: I mean, they're complex relationships, friendships. I mean, you've had friendships for a long time, Wendy, long-term friends.  Wendy Harmer: I still have a friend who was at my 70th birthday a couple of months ago, whom I met on the school bus when I was 13 years old. So I – Gary. So I think that's pretty cool. He's the friend that I've had the longest, but you know, Jean and I have very similar trajectories in this way. We both were sort of country girls, and then we went to Melbourne and then we moved to Sydney. And that is a big dislocator, isn't it, of friendships. It's when you, you know, and we both moved to Sydney about the same time, so we left this huge coterie of friends to move to Sydney with our husbands, and then we both had kids, which is isolating as well… Jean Kittson: …definitely, it changes everything, doesn't it…  Wendy Harmer: … you know, the nature of a friendship just changes so much over the years.  Jean Kittson: But in terms of friendship and happiness, I mean, is friendship a really important element? You are talking about laughing, which it is, but I know when I get together with friends, we laugh a lot. But friendship is a really important part of, you know, happiness.  Dr Happy: Yeah. Well, look, I've been, well, I probably should say I started out my career specialising in unhappiness. I was a clinical psychologist to begin with and an academic. So I was studying sort of stress, depression, and misery before I even discovered happiness. But I have been studying, well, what we technically call positive psychology for several decades now. And if I had to sum up everything I've learned from thousands of research articles, hundreds of books, many, many conferences about, you know, what are the most important contributors to, well not just happiness, but wellbeing more generally, longevity, physical health, et cetera, it would certainly be positive relationships.  In fact, one of the – so Christopher Peterson was one of the leaders, one of the grandfathers of positive psychology, and he dedicated his life to studying, thriving and flourishing. And he was once asked, what have you learned in, you know, 50 years as a professor? And he said, I can sum it up in three words. He said, other people matter.  Wendy Harmer: Wow. That is correct.  Dr Happy: So yeah, it's vitally important, almost certainly the most important contributor and the most important thing we can do is prioritise fostering and developing good quality relationships.  Wendy Harmer: Well, you do hear that, don't you? That people ask on their deathbed, you know, what's your regret? And it's often that I didn't spend enough time with friends or family.  You have some amazing relationships, Jean, and it's funny when you have a friend and you get to know that – and Angela, she's not a friend of mine, but I know her to be your best friend and that your friendship has been amazing over the years. How long have you known Angela?  Jean Kittson: Well, I've known Angela for, since we were both teachers sent to the wilderness to teach first year out teachers. So probably since we were about 21, so 50 y

In this episode of DARE: The time of your life, we are looking at Breaking New Ground. At an age when many people are beginning to look for the off switch, some over 50s are inspiring us by dreaming bigger than ever. Like our guest Jamie Durie. The landscape designer and TV host isn’t just  'not winding down', he’s completely upskilling and re-tooling. Join his conversation with host Jean Kittson alongside clinical psychologist and men’s mental health expert Dr Zac Seidler.  About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Join Jean Kittson for the seventh season of DARE: The time of your life (formerly Life’s Booming), called Better With Age.  Too often ageing is painted as decline. In reality, Australians are living longer, healthier lives and reshaping what “older” looks like. This series flips the script and shows how ageing is not a dirty word but rather a time to be embraced, featuring interviews with extraordinary over 50s refusing to slip quietly into the background. Award-winning landscape designer and sustainability advocate Jamie Durie was once a performer with all-male revue group Manpower, before he realised his passion for horticulture and garden design. Now Jamie is navigating the beautiful chaos of a young family in his 50s, while revolutionising the way we build our homes in TV’s Jamie Durie’s Future House.  Dr Zac Seidler is a clinical psychologist, researcher and leading men’s mental health expert. He currently holds dual roles as Global Director of Research at Movember and Associate Professor with Orygen at the University of Melbourne. Watch DARE: The time of your life on YouTube    Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Apple Podcasts  Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency -- TRANSCRIPT: Jean Kittson: Welcome back to the podcast, DARE: The time of your life, formerly Life's Booming, brought to you by Australian seniors in partnership with RSPCA.  For more episodes, visit seniors.com au/podcast.  Hi, I'm Jean Kittson, and this season is called Better With Age, where we are flipping the script and showing you how ageing is not a dirty word, rather it's a time to be embraced.  In this episode, we are looking at Breaking New Ground. At an age when many people are beginning to look for the off switch, some over 50s are inspiring us by dreaming bigger than ever.  Take our guest, Jamie Durie, the landscape designer and TV host isn't just not winding down, he's completely upskilling and retooling. From navigating the beautiful chaos of a young family in his fifties to revolutionising the way we build our homes with high tech prefab design, Jamie is living proof getting older doesn't automatically mean it's time to start downsizing.  Also with us is Dr. Zac Seidler, a clinical psychologist and leading men's mental health expert. Zac is also global Director of Men's Health Research at Movember. Jamie and Zac, I'm so happy to welcome you both to the studio. Welcome.  Jamie Durie: Thank you. Yeah, great to be here. Good to meet you, Zac.  Zac Seidler: You too, Jamie. Can’t wait to chat. Jean Kittson: I know. Well, it's so exciting to hear what you're doing, Jamie, and you know when people are usually in their fifties, I suppose they start thinking about maybe slowing down or… never crossed your mind? Jamie Durie: Well, I think we, as men, and I'm hoping I'm not alone here, Zac. We only really start working it out in our 40s, and by the time you then reach 50, you go, Hmm, okay, now I know exactly where I wanna land and exactly what I wanna focus on. And I've got the experience behind me where I've made a few mistakes, learnt along the way, and I can apply with accuracy and shoot with a rifle – not a shotgun at your goals, if you like. Because the idea of, kind of, focusing in on the things that I think you’re most passionate about and that are most relevant in your place is, I think, distilling everything you've learned throughout your career. Jean Kittson: Yeah. It's something you come to with experience.  Jamie Durie: Yeah.  Jean Kittson: And as you say, making maybe some mistakes, but then refining, fine tuning where your passion is, is this, like what you are doing now with this prefab. Is it the Prefab housing where you are also doing something called the Infinity Garden?  Jamie Durie: Yeah.  Jean Kittson: What's… tell us about this project? Jamie Durie: Well this, you know, Future House is the name of the show, and we're now at Channel Nine, which is brilliant, and we've had an amazing season.  Basically it's an exploration of modern methods of construction and if we are sitting in the building crisis right now, the housing crisis, and we've got, you know, 1.2 million homes to build over the next five years – how on earth are we gonna achieve that target when we're 87,000 trades short of achieving that target with our conservative ways of building houses? Our houses need to be more energy efficient. They need to be more cost effective. They need to be more structurally sound. They need to be more resilient with increased weather attacks, you know, over the last five, 10 years, we've all seen the floods, the fires, the storms all increasing. And then how do we make it more affordable for everyday Australians so that we can all, you know, get off this renting bus and actually start to own a piece of Australia and be proud of it, but make it more affordable.  So that’s what it’s really about. Prefab has come a long way. We're no longer talking about those archaic old ‘kit homes’, they're now beautifully designed, sophisticated homes, some of them, which you can buy at a hardware store at Bunnings these days.  Jean Kittson: Wow.  Jamie Durie: I don't know whether you've seen that or not, but it's amazing what's happening in this space and we're playing catch up and we wanted to develop a format to talk about those where we could, you know, pass on some of these learnings and create intelligent DIY design where Australians could learn from what we are learning from and help progress the solutions around solving the building crisis.  Jean Kittson: Well, I can hear that you are using all your background in, you know, gardens and landscaping and building, but also a maturity that, you know, and in experience and knowledge that comes with age as you personally. And then you taking this knowledge and experience and then putting it into the community for a really important community benefit.  How does that… does that make you feel good about your work? Is that what you mean by focusing more, in your 50s? Jamie Durie: Oh, for sure. This is the show I've always wanted to make. Having worked on 56 primetime shows throughout my career, which is a lot, when you only started at kind of 28. It feels like everything's come full circle because, you know, we're not just inspiring people to take up new ideas, but we're instilling them with education and awareness around how to create more sustainable homes, how to tread more lightly on the planet, how to reduce our energy costs, how to tackle the cost of living crisis and how to get more Australian families into more homes faster. Jean Kittson: That's amazing. I mean, from a person… personally, that's a lot of work, Jamie.  Jamie Durie: Yeah.  Jean Kittson:You don't feel like you should be slowing down, spending more time, you know…   Jamie Durie: …weirdly  Jean Kittson: …pottering around.  Jamie Durie: No, weirdly, the more I dive into this, the more passionate I become and passion creates energy. You know, it just comes from somewhere. You would know this, Zac. You know, I mean, what you guys have created is astonishing and the people's lives that you've touched through the funds raised throughout Movember is absolutely mind blowing.   Zac Seidler: Thanks Jamie, I appreciate that. It's been a community effort in a very similar vein, and I think Australians can really get around that type of…  Jamie Durie: …Yeah… Zac Seidler: …of grassroots community building when you provide them with the right resources to do so.  Jamie Durie: Yeah.  Zac Seidler: But I love the idea that, you know, I don't, I think that slowing down, that idea of becoming 50 or 60 and starting to slow down, especially because life expectancy is increasing – thank God.  Jamie Durie: …Yeah… Zac Seidler: …We're moving, you know, into longer lives, hopefully healthier lives as well. The data is pretty clear that when men start to slow down, bad things happen, to be honest. Retirement is not a good vibe for lots of guys because they have not built the scaffolding around them. They often haven't spent a lot of time with their friends or family over the years because they've been in this provider protector mode for so long, that when it slows down, they go, okay, I'm gonna play golf, I guess, or something and I've never played it before.  And how does this work? And who are the guys I'm gonna call? And so, I really like the idea of seeing eras of your life and the fact that as you are maturing and ageing, you are becoming more dynamic in ways and kind of getting rid of the stuff that was a waste of energy, the stress, the anxiety, the trying to do a thousand things at once that I'm probably still doing and hopefully we'll get rid of at some point. But that ability to work out where you want to spend your time and energy for, you know, the next era and then there'll be another one after. That's so important. And I think, you know, Movember has been around for over 20 years and we're now moving into the next stage. We were just this young kid on the block, you know, kind of breaking stuff and trying to work out what's the best way to show up in the charity space and really change men's lives, and it started wi

SERIES 7: Better With Age.  It takes courage to reinvent yourself professionally, yet it becomes a necessity for many people over 50. Bestselling author Kathy Lette and publishing exec Jane Curry share their hilarious experiences of pushing through career blocks and tiresome ageing stereotypes.  Brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Join Jean Kittson for the seventh season of DARE: The time of your life (formerly Life’s Booming), called Better With Age.  Australians are actually living longer, healthier lives, and reshaping what older looks like. So in this series, we are chatting with over 50s who are rewriting the ageing rule book, from career pivots to second acts.  This episode celebrates the Reinvention Generation, and explores how we can continue to push through career blocks and debunk tiresome stereotypes as we age. Is it because that's just how we're wired? Or is it to prove that our best work is still ahead? Kathy Lette is an internationally bestselling author of more than 20 books, which have been translated into 20 languages. Her latest bestselling book, The Sisterhood Rules, takes readers on a rollercoaster ride that proves that from pain comes healing, from honesty comes forgiveness, and that nothing is more important than your sisters. Jane Curry is a highly experienced publishing executive, and managing director of Simon and Schuster, Australia and New Zealand. Jane is also the founder of Ventura Press, which she established to champion older female (and male) authors. Watch DARE: The time of your life on YouTube    Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Apple Podcasts  Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency --   TRANSCRIPT Jean Kittson: Welcome to a new season of DARE: The time of your life, formerly Life’s Booming, brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Hello I'm Jean Kittson, and this season is called Better With Age. We're flipping the script and showing how ageing is NOT a dirty word, rather it’s your time to live your life to its fullest. Australians are actually living longer, healthier lives, and reshaping what older looks like. So in this series, we are chatting with over 50s who are rewriting the ageing rule book, from career pivots to second acts. This episode celebrates the Reinvention Generation, and explores how we can continue to push through career blocks and debunk tiresome stereotypes as we age. Is it because that's just how we're wired? Or is it to prove that our best work is still ahead? To help us answer such questions is Jane Curry, a highly experienced publishing executive and newly-appointed managing director of Simon and Schuster, Australia and New Zealand. Jane is also the founder of Ventura Press, a company she started as a way of championing older female authors, many of whom only turned to writing later in life. And joining Jane is the fabulous author and beloved friend Kathy Lette. Her career has pushed boundaries from the get go, when she left school at 16 to write her debut novel, Puberty Blues. It had parents wringing their hands while teens lapped it up. And it was later turned into a movie and a TV series. She's gone on to pen more than 20 bestselling books, including her latest, the Sisterhood Rules, which has topped bestseller lists worldwide, and it's funny, fabulous and always empowering. Jane, Kathy, it's wonderful to have you both in the studio to speak about yourselves and your work. Kathy Lette: …and about you and your amazing work and your incredible life. Jean Kittson: Oh, do go on! Kathy Lette: My comic goddess right here before us, Jean. Jean's broken so many boundaries with her comedy. Jean Kittson: Oh Kathy, you’re amazing, and she's a long, long time beloved friend. And as you, in your words, you are my human wonder bra… Kathy Lette: …uplifting and supportive. I'd also say we are each other's big pair of knickers. We've got our asses covered. Jean Kittson: Mm-hmm. That's right. I can always, I mean, Kathy's the best friend you could possibly have. And don’t we all need… Kathy Lette: …Ditto. Jane Curry: …Don’t we all need female friendships, they keep us all going. Jean Kittson: You, Kathy. Kathy Lette: Yes. Jean Kittson: On a more serious note about, you have covered, you have written about all aspects of life from puberty to marriage, childbirth, menopause. Often based on your own experiences, you've inspired and entertained and soothed millions of readers, including your latest book, the Sisterhood Rules, which I absolutely love and should be a manual for any woman breaking up or any older woman wanting a bit of spice in her life, really. Kathy Lette: Haha, great, ha ha. Jean Kittson: But, um, when your previous publishers said to you. That nobody wants to read about middle-aged women. And they dropped you after 19 books in 17 languages. Kathy Lette: Yes. Jean Kittson: Bestsellers. Kathy Lette: Mm-hmm.   Jean Kittson: And you went on to write the Revenge Club, another bestseller. I mean, how did you do that? Kathy Lette: I went to see my agent and said, I wanna write a book about four middle-aged women who take revenge on the men who've sidelined them and ruined their careers. And he was like, yeah, I dunno. Yeah, middle-aged women just aren't that sexy. And then I went to see my publisher at the time and my publisher was like, Hmm, middle-aged women. We know they exist, but nobody wants to go there. Jane Curry: Oh my goodness. Kathy Lette: And I looked at books written about women my age, like Anita Brooklyn novels, for example. And there was about sad, depressed, lonely women who wilt away and die in their flats and get eaten by their cats. Now I don't know any women like that. All my women friends are like Jean. They're swinging off a chandelier with a cocktail between their teeth. But when they, when they first said that to me, then my publisher dropped me. I thought, gosh, maybe I have passed my amuse-by date. And just for a moment, I did, I did have a real crisis of confidence. But then of course I'm an Aussie girl and we, Aussie girls are made of stern stuff Jane Curry: Dig deep. Kathy Lette: So I thought, nah, he's wrong. They're both wrong. So I got a new, I got a gay agent and I got a new publisher, Bloomsbury, and the book went to number-one on the bestseller list, which was the best revenge. It's called the Revenge Club – success!  So yeah, it was so exciting. And also, I love writing about women this age because our hinterland is huge. You know, we've had the marriages, the divorces, the breakups, the promotions, the back stabs. We've raised the kids.   We've looked after our aged parents as Jean did so, so devotedly. We've got so much to talk about and so much to share, and so much wisdom. Just at the time, society hands us the old invisibility cloak and puts us out to career pasture. It's not just me imagining that we, women my age, are given the cloak of invisibility. A few years ago, MI5 said they wanted to hire middle-aged women as spies because nobody sees us. Jean Kittson: Oh. Kathy Lette: Soak that up. And I remember the governor of the board of the Bank of England. He said, not long ago, that the economy was going through a menopausal phase. Sluggish. Jean Kittson: Oh. Kathy Lette: And I was like, tell that to Oprah Winfrey and Nicole Kidman, and Cate Blanchett… Jane Curry: Michelle Obama… Kathy Lette: …all the other people. Michelle Obama, all these other menopausal and postmenopausal women. So the sexism is sewn into our psyche. We really have to fight hard against that. And thanks to Jean and others of our generation. We've taken the stigma out of menopause. But the next big feminist hurdle for us is sexist ageism, because we get treated in a different way to men our age and, and we really have to rail against it. Because we're now prime, we're in the peak of our productivity. Jane Curry: But also we've all had to witness when the BAFTAs was on, every time we see these women who are completely transformed because they're not allowed to age in public. Kathy Lette: Mm. Jane Curry: So that's the standard. Yes. I mean, we are fortunate in where we're in the book business, so it's brain first in our business and always has been. Kathy Lette: Better to be witty than pretty. Jane Curry: Yeah, yeah – witty than pretty.   And I remember a friend of mine who is actually a cosmetic surgeon, he said to me that it, you know, it's the women who are, have always been beautiful, that have had that sense of power when they walk into a room and they turn heads because of their beauty, they're the ones that find it harder to age. Kathy Lette: Well, it's a diminishing asset. Jane Curry: Yes. So whereas, you know, when you're in the book business as I've been, and Kathy, the entertainment book, um, you know, women of letters, we do have that our brain is our superpower. Kathy Lette: Yeah, yeah. Jane Curry: And then what we look like comes after that. Yes. Jean Kittson: It's hard to fight it though, isn't it? Kathy Lette: It is hard to fight it, Jean Kittson: …especially when you are performing and… Jane Curry: Oh yes. Well, in this new job I've just got, I got tapped on the shoulder to run Simon Schuster. So the first thing I found was all the, the settings on Zoom and teams. Because I’m reporting to the UK and I'm having meetings in the US all the time and sometimes I first thing in the morning, like 7.30 in the morning. So I'm like, where's the filter. Jean Kittson: Where’s the sparkle wand! Jane Curry: You know, we used to laugh when I worked at Macmillan. You know, we used, you know, there's fabulous filters that Jackie Collins had on all their photographs. Kathy Lette: Oh my gosh, yes. In fact, I've had lunch with Jackie Collins a few times w

Stoking your sense of adventure and kick-starting curiosity is so important as we get older – just ask seven-time world champion surfer Layne Beachley and clinical psychologist Dr Roy Sugarman, who explain how you, too, can embrace new experiences and redefine what's possible, at any age. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Join Jean Kittson for the seventh season of DARE: The time of your life (formerly Life’s Booming), called Better With Age.  Too often ageing is painted as decline. In reality, Australians are living longer, healthier lives and reshaping what “older” looks like. This series flips the script and shows how ageing is not a dirty word but rather a time to be embraced, featuring interviews with extraordinary over 50s refusing to slip quietly into the background.  Layne Beachley is a seven-time world champion surfer, who has been pushing the boundaries of women’s surfing since she first stepped on a phone board aged four, going on to win a record breaking six consecutive world titles. Still hitting the waves every day, Layne continues to share her story and help others as a motivational speaker and co-founder of Awake Academy. Dr Roy Sugarman is a clinical psychologist and clinical neuropsychologist who works with professional athletes, special forces and corporate leaders. He is also head neuroscientist for education technology company, Box Play and a co-founder of the global technology research company, Transhuman Inc, where he holds the patient for how we capture human emotions on data files, as well as having developed a totally non-pathological model for online mental health applications for the Department of Health Services in the state of California together with Kooth USA.  Watch DARE: The time of your life on YouTube    Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Apple Podcasts  Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency with Myrtle & Pine -- TRANSCRIPT: Jean Kittson: Hello and welcome to a new season of DARE: The time of your life, formerly Life’s Booming, brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. For more episodes, visit seniors.com.au/podcast. In this episode, we're exploring our adventurous side and being bold and taking risks and how it’s not just for your formative years. It's for now, from scaling mountains and learning to surf, to taking a grey gap year and traveling solo. More Australians over 50 are embracing new experiences and pushing their limits. Proving there is no expiry date when it comes to adventure. So, how can we overcome the, ‘I'm too old for this’ mindset to achieve the confidence to try something new? I mean, it could be something you've always wanted to do or something you did in the past and would like to take up again or something you only just thought of. Fostering our sense of adventure and kick-starting our curiosity is so important as we get older and to help us understand why it is important is Dr Roy Sugarman. Dr Roy Sugarman is a clinical psychologist and clinical neuropsychologist who works with professional athletes, special forces and corporate leaders. He is also head neuroscientist for education technology company Box Play. And joining Roy, someone who needs no introduction. Seven time world champion surfer Layne Beachley. Layne has been pushing the boundaries of women surfing since she first stepped on a phone board aged four, and she has gone on to win a record breaking six consecutive world titles. Although she has been retired from competitive surfing for almost two decades, Layne still hits the waves every day. And Layne has ventured into another career altogether, sharing her story and helping others as a motivational speaker and co-founder of Awake Academy. Welcome Layne.  Layne Beachley: Thanks Jean  Jean Kittson: And welcome Roy.Welcome you both.  Layne Beachley: Thank you. Lovely to be here.  Jean Kittson: It's so great to have you both here with us and talking about this really important topic about, you know, keeping on pushing ourselves and challenging ourselves.  Layne Beachley: It was interesting when you said in the intro about, am I too old for this? I had an experience this weekend, actually, you might be able to help me out with this Roy, where I was competing for my board rider’s club and I was one of the oldest in the whole field and I did come out of the water because it wasn't as enjoyable as it normally is, competing. I did have that mentality. I'm too old for this. Now, do you put that down to the fact that it's just 'cause I'm tired or can I just Are you allowed to be too old for this?  Roy Sugarman: Well, absolutely. You can choose whatever time. Were you too young for it at four years old? Layne Beachley: I knew you…  Roy Sugarman: So if you weren't too young for it at four years old, you Yeah, no, keep going. But what happens is, if I look at my athletes who keep training through 60 years old that don't show signs of ageing.  So you've got 90 year olds who run triathlons and do Iron Men simply because they never stopped. I mean, you look at their muscles or you look at their hearts. They’re 30 years old.  Layne Beachley: Right. Roy Sugarman: So what's the mindset? Mindset becomes your biggest thing. Doing the difficult thing.  Layne Beachley: Mm-hmm.  Roy Sugarman: That's the correct thing to do. When you have a choice and the point is you thought you have a choice.  Layne Beachley: Well, I do have a choice, and I also believe it's the recovery process and the the space that you have around it. Because at 90 years old, there's not much else really going on in your life that's gonna distract you too heavily from being able to take good care of yourself. But that starts now. We don't wait till we're 90 before we start taking care of ourselves. So I'm just thinking now that you've said. Now that I'm in my fifties and I'm still competing, I need to actually have more space for preparation and recovery to enjoy it more. Roy Sugarman: Yeah. I think there are four pillars. There's the mindset pillar, there's nutrition and movement, and recovery is your fourth pillar.  Jean Kittson: Okay. Right. Say that again. Recovery is your…  Roy Sugarman: So mindset's your first important part of that.  Jean Kittson: Yes. And then the next one  Roy Sugarman: Movement and nutrition are critical as you get older. And even the rot starts early, so when you're young as well. And that fourth pillar is recovery time. So in other words,  Jean Kittson: Where you rest and put your feet up,  Roy Sugarman: don't overtrain.  Jean Kittson: You don't have to work on recovery, do you?  Layne Beachley: You do. You have to…  Roy Sugarman: Oh yes,  Jean Kittson: Oh, you have to work for recovery.  Roy Sugarman: Well, there's active and passive, right? Layne Beachley: Exactly.  Roy Sugarman: Yeah.  Layne Beachley: Yeah.  Jean Kittson: Oh gosh. Now we're getting technical. Alright. Can you say what active recovery and passive is in a few words that we, people who aren't sports people will understand, please!  Layne Beachley: Well, active recovery would be things like massage and acupuncture and compression therapy and ice therapy and heat therapy  Jean Kittson: Ah,  Layne Beachley: Yeah. That would be the active  Jean Kittson: And the passive is a glass of wine.  Jean Kittson: The telly on, the feet up. Right?  Layne Beachley: Well, preferably coconut water.  Jean Kittson: Yeah.  Layne Beachley: Not something that's all anti, well, not something that's inflammatory like alcohol.  Roy Sugarman: So going for a walk.  Layne Beachley: going for a walk.  Roy Sugarman: Going for a walk, doing some stretching, doing some yoga. Very light stuff. Just keeping going, but being active, getting out of bed at the same time, going to sleep at the same time. There's more passive recovery, doing some heart rate variability training.   Jean Kittson: Look, I'm feeling too old for this, as you say, I have never sort of worked in that way in a routine or with, you know, that much care. Layne Beachley: So television doesn't provide that, does it?  Jean Kittson: Television? No. I don't really watch a lot of television. I do a little, just a lot of, I don't know what I do. Running around, I run around, a headless chook, and then sit down and, you know… Layne Beachley: With a glass of wine.  Jean Kittson: Yeah, with a glass of wine. So when you have that pass through your mind – I'm too old for this – this is what happens to, I think a lot of people when, as they, as they get older in later life, they think ‘well, maybe I am too old for this.’ And I don't know whether it's their mindset or other people are putting it on it. You are out surfing with younger people. Did you get that impression that other people were looking at you like that? Or was, did it come from yourself?  Layne Beachley: No, it came from myself. I don't care about how people look at me and the judgements that they make, cast upon me. It's more around my opinion of myself. That's the most important. I think it also came down to how my body was feeling and the energy that I was able to put into the performance. And just the mindset is also a reflection of how I'm feeling within myself. So I've been in a moon boot for a few weeks. Yeah, not ideal preparation either. And so I'm really conscious about allowing that injury to heal, but while still being able to do what I wanna do. And that's another thing that slows us down as we get older, is the injuries and the progression of injuries, and then honoring the injury and allowing it to heal.  Roy Sugarman: Yeah. And the point that changes as you get older, which is something for younger athletes as well, is you can't be outcome focused. Cause

Series 7: Better With AgeToo often ageing is painted as decline. In reality, Australians are living longer, healthier lives and reshaping what “older” looks like. This series flips the script and shows how ageing is not a dirty word but rather a time to be embraced, featuring interviews with extraordinary over 50s refusing to slip quietly into the background. The podcast is available at seniors.com.au/podcast or  Watch DARE: The time of your life on YouTube Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Apple Podcasts Listen to DARE: The time of your life on Spotify For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Myrtle & Pine See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

After life The question of the afterlife fascinates us all, whether shaped by science, spirituality or something in between. In this episode, we explore what happens at the end of life, and what might follow, in a conversation with psychic medium Debbie Malone and science writer and journalist Bianca Nogrady.  About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors.  Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death. From vivid, near-death experiences to the quiet moments before death, this episode looks at how people make sense of the unknown. You’ll hear how psychic mediums describe receiving messages from those who’ve passed, what it feels like to come back from the brink, and how the scientific community approaches questions of consciousness, the soul, and what defines the moment of death. Debbie Malone is one of Australia’s most recognised psychic mediums, with over three decades of experience connecting people to their loved ones in spirit. As a medium, author and spiritual teacher, she works with individuals and audiences seeking comfort and closure, and has also assisted police on high-profile investigations involving missing persons and unsolved crimes.  Bianca Nogrady is a journalist, author and science communicator who has spent more than a decade writing about death, dying and what it means to be mortal. Her book The End: The Human Experience of Death explores how cultures, clinicians, and individuals confront the reality of dying, and what we can learn from it.   If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – [email protected]  Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube    Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel Sonic Experience Agency -- Disclaimer: Please be advised that this episode contains discussions about death, which may be triggering or upsetting for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. If you are struggling with the loss of a loved one, please know that you are not alone  and there are resources available. For additional support please contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636. TRANSCRIPT: S06EP07 After life James: Hello and welcome to Life's Booming. I'm James Valentine and this season we're talking about death. In this episode, well, this is a debate that's been going ever since we were alive. What happens after we die? No matter your religion or spiritual beliefs, the question of the afterlife fascinates us all. James: With the help of my guests, I'll explore everything we know, or perhaps don't quite know, about it from both a spiritual and scientific perspective. Bianca Nogrady is an award winning science journalist and the author of The End, The Human Experience of Death, and Debbie Malone is a psychic medium who felt a spiritual awakening after a series of near-death experiences. James: Bianca, Debbie, welcome to Life's Booming. So, Debbie, this starts with you. You've had a lot of near-death experiences.  Debbie: Yes, I have. I had one at three and 13, then I had some, had another two in my early 20s. And then I had a miscarriage and then I woke up and started seeing murders and it was the backpacker murders, [that] was the first thing that I actually saw. James: What do you mean by seeing them?  Debbie: I was becoming a victim and I was being, you know, I was being attacked and murdered, in visions and dreams. At the time the backpacker murders was a really big thing on the news and I just thought I was watching TV too much. And then I started to see things before they happened on the news. I used to work at Fairfax community newspapers and I kept seeing all of these different visions and I spoke to one of the journalists and he said, why don't we do a story about you and just see what happens. And then it ended up, Ivan Milat's girlfriend, Chalinda Hughes contacted the newspaper and wanted to make contact. And I ended up, consequently, working on the case with the taskforce for quite a few, quite a few years.   James: Right. I feel I'm automatically going to go a bit glib, but you mean they go, okay, so Debbie, what's happened? What can we expect this weekend?  Debbie: Yeah. And it's, and it's funny cause it's not like that. Because it's, and me being the sceptic, all I wanted to do was to shut it down. I didn't want to do anything, have anything to do with it. I'd never had a reading. I didn't, you know, have tarot cards or anything like that. And when it started to happen, at first the police were quite sceptical and I had to speak to a few different officers and then they just said, just keep a diary. And they said, don't think about what you see, just write it down, put a date down. And when I had enough information, I would send it through to them. I can't say that I have solved cases, it's more like I'm a profiler. So I can see, I can describe things. And the thing is with, when it comes through, it can be the past, it can be the present, or it can be the future. So it's like pieces of a puzzle. It's almost like playing charades in a way. So you're hearing things and seeing things and you try and work it out.  James: So police weren't sceptical of this.  Debbie: Oh, some were, some were. And yeah, I've had some challenging experiences with them, but I've had some incredible officers that I've worked with, you know, during the time as well. And I just thought once I did something with the backpacker murders, it would all go away and I wouldn't have to deal with it anymore. I kind of thought that would be it.  James: And by all go away, you mean the kind of visions you were having or you, you were getting a sense of, of… Are you, in this sense, are you someone who's seeing the future or are you someone who's seeing glimpses of the afterlife or something like that? Debbie: All of it. So the victims were coming to me, the two English girls were coming to me, and one of the visions was I could see somebody walking them into the forest, but I couldn't see who he was because I was seeing through his eyes. So they were walking away from me and they were kind of pleading with me to help them and then it would stop and then I would get a wall full of Polaroid images. And then it ended up, most of the images of the Polaroids were the other victims. But at the time, I didn't know. It was only later on when the case, you know, became solved – and some of those faces still haven't been, they haven't been linked to the case, so I think there's so many more. James: So going back to your near-death experiences. What did you see when that happened? What was your near-death experience?  Debbie: My most vivid one, when I was 34, I had to have a major operation and I told the doctors that I was going to die and they thought I was being stupid. And I said about the anesthetic and they didn't believe me. Anyway, when I went through, I woke up after the operation and I was in a higher dependency, but they put me on a morphine drip and I didn't know I was allergic to morphine. So they kept telling me to, you know, push the button. And when I did, I ended up having a lot of really horrible visions to start with, but then I went through to this beautiful place. It was like, it was like a rollercoaster. Like, I love the night sky, and it was like I went up, I felt like I was an astronaut without a craft and I just could see the universe and I felt very calm. And then it was a lot of movement. The movie Contact for me is very close to my experience. And then I suddenly went into like, I would call it like a black hole. Cause I kind of feel like it was a vortex and I got sucked into it. But then, the movement was getting faster and faster, it's a bit like being on a rollercoaster. And then I landed in this meadow and everything seemed more colorful than it is here. And the stupid part about it, there was a privet hedge, I remember that. And it was about this tall, and there's this, like this little gate and there were people in front of me and they all went ahead, and then there's people on the other side and they all seemed so happy and you know, it just seems so beautiful and just, I felt so loved and peaceful. Then I got to my turn to go through the little gate and they said, no, you can't. And I'm a bit like, you know, I'm not the person that pushes in at the deli line. So it's like, you know, it's my turn. I want to go through. And they said, no, no, no, you can't, turn around. So I turned around and it was like, I was up in the sky, and I could see my – it makes me cry nearly every time I talk about it – I could see down that my one-year-old daughter was in my husband's arm, my three-year-old son was beside him and my seven-year-old was there, and the two boys are saying, where's mummy, where's mummy, and he said, mummy's not coming back, mummy's in heaven now. And then suddenly I fell back down and I'm back into the hospital room and the nurse is shaking me and they're pulling the morphine drip out. And she said, what are you doing? And I said, Oh, you know, I'm going to the light. And she said, not on my shift, it's too much paperwork. [laughter] James: Oh, the New South Wales public health system, it'll fix you up at any time. When you did your book, Bianca, did you do, did you talk to people with near-death experience or did you cover that area?  Bianca: I did. I mean, the aim of my book was really to take, to kind of explore right up to the moment of death, but not beyond because I felt tha

LIFE’S BOOMING SERIES 6: Dying to Know Episode 6: Finding the funny side Many of us are embracing more humour following the death of a loved one. But how do we make space for laughter without feeling like we’re getting it wrong? Comedian Michelle Brasier and grief counsellor Marianne Bowdler share their experiences. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors.  Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death. In this episode, we explore the psychology behind our fear of death and how humour can help us face it. From heartfelt eulogies that land a laugh to finding the line between lightness and respect, we look at how Australians are using comedy to cope, connect and heal. Michelle Brasier is an award-winning comedian, writer and performer known for her sharp wit, musical talent and deeply personal storytelling. After losing both her father and brother to cancer, Michelle channelled her grief into her stage show Average Bear (on ABC iview), and book My Brother's Ashes are in a Sandwich Bag, which blend humour, vulnerability and hope.  Marianne Bowdler is the clinical services manager at Griefline, where she supports Australians experiencing grief, loss and trauma. She draws on years of experience to explain how laughter, when used thoughtfully, can offer relief, connection and healing. If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – [email protected]  Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube    Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel Sonic Experience Agency -- Disclaimer: Please be advised that this episode contains discussions about death, which may be triggering or upsetting for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. If you are struggling with the loss of a loved one, please know that you are not alone  and there are resources available. For additional support please contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636. TRANSCRIPT: S06EP06 Finding the funny side James: Hello and welcome to Life's Booming. I'm James Valentine and this season we're talking about death, but it's not all doom and gloom. On this episode we're going to embrace the funny side of grief. Forty-seven percent of the over 50s want to embrace more humor following the death of a loved one, according to an Australian senior's cost of death report. Helping us navigate this somewhat confusing terrain are two women who've built their careers around talking about death in very different ways. Marianne Bowdler is a grief counsellor and clinical services manager at Griefline, who's worked extensively supporting marginalised communities through bereavement, attachment and loss. And Michelle Brasier is a comedian, writer and actor. Her frank and fearless brand of cabaret comedy has never made death funnier and has taken her all the way to Broadway. Marianne, Michelle, welcome to Life's Booming.  James: What's Griefline? Who calls?  Marianne: Griefline, we interpret grief very broadly. So grief is any response to a loss. So we lose lots of things, don't we? Might be, you see a house flooding down the river after a flood, could be redundancy, could be bankruptcy, might've lost your keys, the dog might've gone missing, so anything.  James: Do people think to call you in that sort of thing?  Marianne: More and more they do, more and more, and also ecological grief, which is that kind of nostalgia that we have for how the climate used to be. Michelle: Oh no. Right. Yeah, right.  Marianne: And the landscape that was. And the beach that used to be at Byron.  James: Yeah, so it's sort of an existential grief.  Marianne: Grief is existential.  James: Yeah, yeah. And then what, what can you offer? What happens when I call?  Marianne: It's that annoying concept, isn't it? We hold space. It's about listening without judgment. And it's about enabling people to actually shine a torch into the darkness of the sorrow and the anguish that they might be experiencing.  James: Yeah.  Marianne: I mean, I think a lot of times you might be a young mom and you can't really be grieving because you've got to look after the kids. There's lots of times when you can't express your grief and it's quite helpful to be able to talk to a neutral third party who can be supportive.  James: Yeah. There'd be cultural issues as well in some cases. Yes. And who's on the end of the line, like who's listening?  Marianne: Our lovely band of volunteers. Yeah. So we have hundreds of volunteers and oftentimes it's someone who's been through a significant grief experience and therefore they know what it's like and they want to support somebody else. Or it might be students who are trying to learn something a bit beyond psychology, a bit more about existential things.  James: Yeah.  Michelle: Hmm.  James: Michelle, you know about grief?  Michelle: I know about grief. I'm an old hat at grief for such a young dog. I, yeah, I talk about this publicly all the time, but to do a little recap, we talk about this all the time. You and I, but I, my father was diagnosed when I was 18, with cancer and he died a week later. And shortly after that, my brother was diagnosed with a similar cancer and he died a few months later. And, I am now… assumed Lynch syndrome, which is a genetic… what's the word I'm looking for? Mutation. Yeah. Predisposition. It's a predisposition, to certain types of cancers. and so I'm always being poked and prodded and things, and getting things, you know, cut out, and early intervention, which is really lovely, but it means that grief has become a good friend of mine. And I make shows about all kinds of things, but one of my most successful shows, that you can watch on ABC iView that became my book, is called Average Bear. And it's about, it's about grief, but it's also about hope. And I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that grief is always a bad thing. And I think that it's a really wonderful way through something in a really wonderful way to honour something. So I try to make shows that are funny about things that are sad. James: Yeah. What did you even know of grief? I mean, there you are, 18, 19 years old. I mean, I'm thinking of 18, 19-year-old me. I wouldn't have had a clue. I would never even know what it was.  Michelle: I didn't know anything. I mean, I hadn't, my nan had passed away, but she'd had Alzheimer's for my whole life. And she died when I was quite young, oo I didn't really have any experience of grief except the dog. And even the dog, I had been told had gone to the farm, classic.  James: Right.  Michelle:And I truly thought that the dog had gone to the farm until I was about 26. And I went, Oh no! [laughter] But yeah, so I hadn't really had any, any life experience of grief. I hadn't really had any life experience at all. I mean, of course, I think, you know, it really hit me in the face. I had just gotten out of hospital myself cause I'd been in a fire, and had had third degree burns and had to learn to walk again. And I was surrounded by a lot of grief there, but I didn't know it was right around the corner for me. I saw people lose people all the time. And I was, you know, starting to wise up that maybe the world wasn't quite so simple, but when I lost my dad so fast, grief became a very fast, you know, friend and a big element of my life and something I was so interested in, because my friends weren't going through it. It was very strange. I think when you're young and you lose somebody. If you are the first one in your friendship group, it can be really isolating or you can choose to, you know, oh yeah. Make it a place of fun.  Marianne: It’s like you joined a club you didn't want to… Michelle: …the Dead Dad Club, as I call it. Yeah, yeah. James: Yeah, yeah. But you had no prep for it. I mean, it'd be something if you had cancer for a few years..  Michelle:…Yeah. James: You know, you'd, you'd have a chance to talk to you your mother about it, everybody about it, start to realise this was going to happen. You know, it must have been just like some, it'd be like a disease itself, wouldn't it?  Michelle: Well, it is. I mean, I think it just happens when it does happen so fast like that, it was an assault on the senses. And I have a chapter in my book that's called ‘the actual stages of grief’ because that's how I've experienced it. And I talk about how the world becomes small, like the world just closes in and you find yourself, you know, just assaulted by all these ideas and they don't feel real until you finally eat a piece of pizza again. And, you know, I think it, it was a really fast introduction into perspective and a really quick, life lesson in being curious and trying to open yourself up to as many experiences as you can because you don't know how long you have. And I mean, dad was just that, that was the canary in the coalmine. I didn't know it was going to lead to my brother and all the, you know, we didn't realise it was like a first domino. I was like, Oh, this is the bad thing that happens in my life. It didn't feel like a marker, but now it's very clear that that was the point where my life changed and continued to sort of tumble on down. But I'm still really grateful for, you know, the things that I've learned from grief and the way that I've learned to, to honour people.  James: Yeah. Marianne, can we prepare for grief? I mean, is it something that, it should be something that's part of all of our live

With most people now preferring to focus on celebrating life rather than mourning at funerals, we explore the new ways people are choosing to commemorate loved ones, and hear first hand experience of what it's like to grieve in the public eye, with acclaimed author Blanche d’Alpuget, widow of former Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke, and experienced funeral and life celebrant Evelyn Calaunan. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors.  Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death. Featuring interviews with famous faces as well as experts in the space, we uncover what they know about what we can expect. There are hard truths, surprising discoveries, tears and even laughs. Nothing about death is off the table. Blanche d’Alpuget is an acclaimed Australian author and the widow of former Prime Minister Bob Hawke. In this episode, Blanche reflects on public and private rituals of mourning, what it means to say goodbye well, and how grief reshapes us. Her latest novel, The Bunny Club (her first murder mystery), is out now. Evelyn Calaunan is a celebrant who has conducted more than 600 ceremonies, including living funerals that are heartfelt gatherings held before death to honour a life while the person is still present. Drawing on her background in palliative care and community work, Evelyn helps individuals and families create ceremonies that are deeply personal.  If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – [email protected]  Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube    Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel -- Disclaimer: Please be advised that this episode contains discussions about death, which may be triggering or upsetting for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. If you are struggling with the loss of a loved one, please know that you are not alone  and there are resources available. For additional support please contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636. TRANSCRIPT: S06EP04 Going out with style James: Hi, I'm James Valentine. Welcome to Life's Booming. This season is Dying to Know. We're having the conversations that are often the hardest to have with people who've experienced life's one great certainty, death.  It touches everyone, but how we honor our loved ones in death is changing, with most of us now preferring to focus on celebrating life rather than mourning at funerals. So in this episode, we explore some of the new ways people are choosing to commemorate life, as well as hearing first hand experience of what it's like to grieve in the public eye. Generously sharing their professional and personal stories are our guests. Evelyn Calaunan is an experienced celebrant who specialises in living funerals. And Blanche d’Alpuget is an acclaimed author and widow of former Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke. Evelyn Blanche, welcome to Life's Booming.  Blanche: Oh, thank you, James.  James: Evelyn, you describe yourself as an end of life celebrant. What exactly does that mean? What do you mean by end of life celebrant?  Evelyn: So I've done, I've done ceremonies, as well. I used to be a wedding celebrant and I've married a few couples where one of the partners was diagnosed with a terminal illness, so I would do the ceremony and that turned out to be sort of a life celebration and they just wanted to marry before one of them died. And then I've done a ceremony where the person was actually dying and we did it. The end of life sort of life celebration for him. And he passed away, I think, 10 days after, after the ceremony. That's why I think it's, it's best just to celebrate life now, like have those milestone birthdays or whatever birthday number you're turning and have a great party now - why wait till you have a diagnosis or a terminal illness that's looming? So it's important to have those, those celebrations now. However, in saying that, sometimes people are diagnosed and like, ‘Oh God, I didn't have that party. So I want to have something now.’  I did do a life celebration for my girlfriend who was diagnosed with cancer. And I did a little bit of a ceremony and a ritual and I shared a poem and I was getting a bit too sad for everybody there - cause we were really… It was like a 70s party, we were all dressed up and enjoying each other's company. And then after a while we could tell people were really getting upset because of her diagnosis. And then she came on the microphone. She said, ‘Okay, okay. That's enough, Evelyn, let's go on to karaoke’, you know, so, yeah,  It turned out to be a lovely celebration and she wanted to invite people there from all parts of her life and just be able to have a good party with them while she was still feeling well.  James: Yeah Yeah Evelyn: And I've done about 600 end of life ceremonies.  James: It just sounds like 600 sounds like a lot  Evelyn: Yeah, but in the context of 17 years, that's really not. James: I think the thing that struck me about that number was, does it get routine? Evelyn: Not really. I mean a lot of the script is or the script that I have – I mean, there's only so many ways you can say I'd like to welcome everyone here today. So I'll write a ceremony and I might say, ‘Oh, you know, Joe Blow leaves behind his loving sister’, and then the parents will come back and say, ‘Please take loving out, they couldn't stand each other!’  So, you know, there's a lot of adjectives that are changed because I kind of make my ceremonies quite flowery and people like to change that and make it more real. So yeah.  James: Blanche, you had the experience of, in a way, one of the biggest funerals and biggest moments of public grief in Australian life, the death of Bob Hawke and the funeral and memorial service of Bob Hawke. How much did you and Bob plan those events together?  Blanche: Not at all. No, no. That was all left up to me.  James: Right. So you planned those events. So my understanding is Bob knew he was dying, right? You knew it was, say, a year before, that kind of thing, you knew it was, it would, it must have been coming. Blanche: Well, you don't know exactly when. When he started dying, it just fell like an axe. It was very sudden, out of the blue, we were having dinner. And he was in a bad way. He was in a lot of pain from peripheral neuropathy, so he was on morphine tablets and the fentanyl patches. Obviously it was going to be at some stage, but suddenly we're having dinner and we finished dinner and he got up from dinner and he actually went into the living room and actually threw up and he was in enormous pain, suddenly. And he got on the floor and said, ‘Oh, it's unbearable. The pain's unbearable’. And I said to him, ‘Yes, Bob, you're dying.’ And that was, so that was the beginning.  James: How did he take that? Like, how did he take his death? So the, the imminence of his death?  Blanche: Well, he'd said all along, I have no fear of death. And I used to think all along, wait until you get there. [laughter] It's one thing, not fearing death. It's another thing fearing dying, and dying can be difficult. Being born is difficult, life is difficult, and dying can be difficult too. But then I think it's wonderful, when you actually… Because I believe in the spirit and the soul, and I've seen enough of people dying to be convinced of it, there's an absolutely uplifting feeling as, as it goes, as it leaves the body.  James: What did he believe, particularly at that point?  Blanche: I sort of badgered him with my ideas for 25 years, so [laughter]. He'd started off an agnostic and he was still probably agnostic, but when he died, he wasn't. I mean, I could see it on his face. He didn't say, ‘Oh my God, I can, I see heaven’. But there was such a heavenly look on his face. As I saw on my mother's face.  James: What do you see, Evelyn, the difference between, do you see a difference between those who are dying and have belief and faith and those who don’t. How does that express itself? How do you see it play out?  Evelyn: What I've seen or what I've experienced talking to families is that that they could see at the end that they, if they were quite sick, cause I always ask, I always ask my families, how was it the last few days? And they always say to me, that, you know, just about a few days before they died, they had this really lucid moment where they sat up and we had a really good conversation. And, and then a few days later, they passed away.  And another thing that I actually really would like to share is that most of the families, they get really upset if their person hasn't passed in front of them. They're waiting for that moment. But I have found in all of the many funerals I've done, I would say about 80%, if not more, the loved one usually passes away when someone will just go out to the toilet or go… I've had to explain that to families because they're, they're so upset. Like, ‘you know, I was sat there, I slept on, by the side, the side of the bed of my mother, and I was holding her hand and I, I just had to go to the toilet. I come back and she died on me’ - you know, but it's so common.   James: Why are you nodding Blanche? You heard this a lot too. Blanche:  Oh yes, it's very well known that because the loved one is hanging on emotionally, psychologically to the one who's dying. And so, the dying one can't leave, and that has to grab the moment. Do you agree with the E

Matters of life and death Australia’s death care and funeral industry is big business. We meet death doula Dr Annetta Mallon and funeral industry adviser Martin Tobin, two caring and passionate business owners supporting you and your loved ones through the last step on life’s journey. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors.  Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death. Featuring interviews with famous faces as well as experts in the space, we uncover what they know about what we can expect. There are hard truths, surprising discoveries, tears and even laughs. Nothing about death is off the table. Dr Annetta Mallon is an end-of-life consultant, doula and educator and grief psychotherapist based in Tasmania. With decades of experience in trauma recovery and personal growth, Annetta helps people understand their rights and options at the end of life – especially those without a strong support network. Martin Tobin is a recognised family name in the funeral business. He is founder of Funeral Direction, a consultancy supporting funeral homes and cemeteries across Australia and New Zealand. A former solicitor, Martin brings legal, strategic and business insight, and is focused on helping the industry evolve through innovation, education and long-term planning. If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – [email protected]  Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube    Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel at Myrtle & Pine Studios -- Disclaimer: Please be advised that this episode contains discussions about death, which may be triggering or upsetting for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. If you are struggling with the loss of a loved one, please know that you are not alone  and there are resources available. For additional support please contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636. TRANSCRIPT: S06EP03_Matters of Life and Death James: Hello, and welcome to Life's Booming. I'm James Valentine, and this season, we're talking about death.  In this episode, we're talking about matters of life and death, well, the final matter, how we say goodbye. Death is big business, and Australia's death care and funeral industry is worth more than $2 billion. And with us are two entrepreneurs, two people who work in this area, supporting you and your loved ones through the last step on life’s journey. We're joined by Dr. Annetta Mallon, an end of life consultant, an educator, and also known as a death doula. And Martin Tobin is a recognised family name in the funeral business and is now an expert adviser on the global funeral industry. Annetta, Martin, welcome to Life's Booming.  So many places to start. I'm excited. And Martin, I'll start with you. What's it like when the family business is death?  Martin: Yeah, well, it's all I've ever known. When I was, you know, when I was born and grew up, I, we actually lived in a funeral parlour. Um, so when I was, for the first two or three years of my life, uh, the funeral parlour was downstairs. We lived upstairs.  So when it's all you've known, you don't think anything different of it. And I suppose all of my friends and sort of social groups when I was young and a teenager thought it was pretty quirky and funny, but for me, it was what I knew. My grandfather and his brother started our family business in the thirties. And by the time I came along, it was well, well and truly established.  I didn't really work directly in it straight away after leaving school, but it was always in the background. And so I've always been comfortable with it.  James: Yeah. But such an interesting thing. Like what's, what's the dinner time conversation. Did you have a good day, darling? Good deaths? Some good deaths?  Martin: Well, all of that. You know, I think that's the stereotype, isn't it, that funeral directors are a bit, sort of weird and severe and a bit morbid, but, but it's, it's far from the truth. You know, I think most people who work in funeral service, and the work that Annetta does, are really warm and loving and gregarious people because you have to have those qualities to really survive and thrive in, in what we do in that space. James: You kind of got to love life, Annetta.  Annetta: Absolutely. We are fiercely alive until we are dead. And I think that. Whether it's from the professional funeral side of things or more from consumer advocate and personal support side of things, coming in with a joke – why do we screw the coffin lids down so hard to keep the oncologist out. Great icebreaker: show up with cake. Make jokes, because most of us have a lot of laughter and love in our lives and it's important to leaven sorrow and, and grief. Martin: Yeah. Don't let death just drown out the…  James: What's the undertaker's joke?  Martin: Oh, there's so many. I mean, everyone used to, I used to get called Stiffy Tobin, that sort of stuff.  James: Stiffy, Tobin…  Martin: …you know, a bit. So a lot of funeral directors get called Stiffy.  Annetta: …that's a 1930s cartoon character, isn't it?  James: It's like, it's the, the Millers, the Millers and bakers are Dusty. You know, it's that, it's that era, isn't it? Annetta: You're a Tintin character.  James: Yeah, exactly.  Martin: Yeah. Luckily I wasn't, you know, I don't fit the stereotype of tall and gray. I'm sort of fairly short and not gray. And so when I joined our family business, I was quite young. So I was lucky I sort of didn't fit that stereotype. And back in the early 90s, there was very few women, very few people, young people, very few people from, from diverse backgrounds. So it's changed a lot really for the better in that sense. So there's no stereotypical funeral director now it's, it's a really, really diverse.  James: What's a, what's a doula? Annetta: Well, a doula is someone who supports life's transitions. So I've been a birth doula, and it's a very powerful energy when someone comes into the world, but it's really not my jam. I like the other transition, and I'm better at it.  I provide an awful lot of information for people who have questions like, what is this going to feel like? Should I be at home or should I be in the hospital? And the point of a lot of my conversations is not to provide answers, but to support people into recognising what's best for them, which I suspect is actually quite a lot of what Martin does, with the way that you work with businesses.  James: When do you turn up? Annetta: A piece of string question. I can turn up pre-need, so there's no terminal or life limiting diagnosis. There's a bit of a myth that we turn up magically, like a fairy, in the last 24 hours of life. That's not really great or optimal.  James: So, do some people get you, even if, well, I don't have a diagnosis, but I want to start working with a doula? Annetta: If you're a doula like me who does planning and can answer questions and help people prepare their documentation and their wishes, because that's not anything you want to be doing at the last minute and in cases where there's dementia and cognitive decline. It's too late then to get your planning in place. So I also help to support and foster family-wide and network-wide conversations so that everyone understands if someone's interested in assisted dying, let's talk about that. Does anyone have questions, for example. Or have you considered your pets in your planning? Are you including your grandchildren or just your children? Would you prefer to die in a medicalised environment, ideally, or in a home like environment?  James: So you can, yeah, so you're there at any point and really every circumstance is entirely different.  Annetta: It is, it's unique every single time.  James: Same for funerals?  Martin: Yeah, I mean, a funeral really should be a reflection of the person's life and interests and values and philosophies, and sometimes, you know, historically, traditionally, in say the last couple of hundred years that, that often revolved around their, their faith. So these days funerals are quite sort of open-ended, quite, quite unstructured, quite celebratory and people are trying to find some ritual in that and some meaning in that and, and that's the, that's the real change that's happening in funeral service.  You know, funerals have been going on for thousands of years. They're one of the early rituals of human, human existence. So, and they emanate from the human need to stop when someone from among us leaves us, and reflect on that person's life, to typically grieve that person, if they meant something to us. So that is, you know, invariably people feel sad, not always, but typically. And people have to then say, well, how do we, how do we move forward without this person? And then for a lot of people, that's incredibly difficult. Grief, grief is just our response to loss. You can't control it. You can't make it go away. So if you suppress it in the early days, it comes back to bite you later. So a funeral is a chance to gather, reflect, embrace the reality of the death and embrace the early stages of the grief, the pain that you'll often experience, and to receive support from your community and to let go of that person because they go from being with you to being a memory.  James: It's interesting the way you phrased it or the point of view you expressed there was to me it was the person closest to whoever's di

Dying well We’re all going to die, but how we acknowledge death and dying is a very personal experience. Award-winning journalist and author Tracey Spicer and anthropologist Dr Hannah Gould explore etiquette, rites and traditions to find out what makes a ‘good death’. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors.  Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death. Featuring interviews with famous faces as well as experts in the space, we uncover what they know about what we can expect. There are hard truths, surprising discoveries, tears and even laughs. Nothing about death is off the table. Tracey Spicer AM is a Walkley award-winning journalist, author and broadcaster. And she's an ambassador for Dying With Dignity. A vocal campaigner and advocate for voluntary assisted dying (VAD), Tracey penned a letter to her mother following her painful death in 1999. Dr Hannah Gould is an anthropologist who works in the areas of death, religion and material culture. She recently appeared on SBS documentary: Ray Martin: The Last Goodbye. Hannah’s research spans new traditions and technologies of Buddhist death rites, the lifecycle of religious materials, and modern lifestyle movements.  If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – [email protected]  Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube    Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel  Disclaimer: Please be advised that this episode contains discussions about death, which may be triggering or upsetting for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. If you are struggling with the loss of a loved one, please know that you are not alone  and there are resources available. For additional support please contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636. TRANSCRIPT: James: We're all going to die. Happens to all of us. But how we acknowledge death and dying is of course a very personal experience. With our guest and our expert, we're going to explore the etiquette, the rites and traditions seen in Australia and around the world. Someone who knows a lot about the rites and traditions of death is Dr Hannah Gould, an anthropologist who works in the areas of death, religion and material culture. We're also going to be joined by Tracey Spicer, she’s a Walkley award-winning author, journalist and broadcaster. And she's an ambassador for Dying With Dignity. Tracey and Hannah, welcome. Thank you so much. Tracey: Hello.  James: Thank you for coming. Hannah Gould. Hello. Thank you for coming. Hannah: Thank you.  James: Fantastic. Let's talk death!  Tracey: Why not? There'll be lots of fun.  James: Do you laugh in the face of death?  Hannah: What else can you do? I mean, look, you know. Lots of sadness, lots of joy, every single emotion is reasonable, surely. I mean, it's like the question, the ultimate question of philosophy, of history, of every discipline. Every response is valid. Not always useful, or helpful.  James: Yeah. Yeah. Hannah: But valid. Tracey: Well, it's a universal topic of conversation and that's why I've always loved dark humour. Because you do have to laugh, otherwise what do you do?  James: I also think it's, it is the ultimate joke that we are all going to die, but we live like we're not going to. We live every day as though it's just not going to happen at all.  Tracey: Especially in Western society, I think other cultures have got it right and we're in such deep denial about it. It's detrimental to all of us.  James: Yeah. Now this is your area of expertise really, is that do other cultures have it right? Hannah: Everyone does it differently. Right or wrong is kind of a difficult thing to judge. I think certainly there's a big thing called, like, the denial of death thesis, right. And, and people like Ernest Becker, a lot of different philosophers and anthropologists and cultural, you know, analysis have looked at Western culture and gone, Oh my gosh, we are so invested in denying death, right. And whether that's through denying death by religions that say you're going to live forever, like, you know, don't worry, it's not the end. You'll pop off to heaven or whatever it is.  Or through, you know, great heroic myths. Yes, you'll die, but the nation will remember you forever. So, you know, you won't really die. You'll be a martyr.  Or contemporary, you know. Yes, you'll die, but have you seen how great the shopping is? You know, we can just ignore, we can deny death by being on Instagram and, you know, consuming, right, so, I think Western culture in particular, the way we've organised our society, allows us to not think about death. James: And we've organised death to be somewhere else, usually now. To be in a hospital, to be in palliative care somewhere. And they may be good, but they're not, they're not in the cottage, are they? They're not next to, not in the bedroom.  Hannah: Not in the bedroom. So, we know that, say, 70% of Australians wish to die at home. Only about 15% do. And that is a rate that is lower than all these other countries we like to compare ourselves. So Australians are more institutionalised in their death than places like Ireland, like New Zealand, the United States of America, even Canada. We tend, more than other countries, to die in institutions – aged care, hospitals, and hospices.  James: Yeah, right, right. The other way in which we deny death is, or the other way in which other cultures have a different attitude to death, will be that it'll either be more accepting – we are all going to die, will be part of their every day – or they may have a notion of reincarnation and coming back, which means that that's a very different attitude to death, really, than a, than a heaven and a hell.  Hannah: Yeah, it's not necessarily an end so much. I think that's kind of quite common in, say, you know, Buddhist or Hindu or other kind of dharmic religions, particularly Asian religions. And then, obviously, there's a lot of Asian religion that's part of Australian society, so that's also quite present in Australia.  But we can also have a kind of more secular idea about that. You know, a lot of these, a lot of my mum's generation in particular, have kind of a green environmental kind of reincarnation model where she will say, well, I don't particularly believe in heaven, but I do believe I'm going to become compost. Food for worms, you know, I'll come back as a tree or a flower or a tomato plant, you know, and that's, that's a kind of reincarnation of like reintegration into the natural environment, as it were.  So there are some kind of myths or stories we can tell ourselves that perhaps help us think about death more positively. James: I've got a, a friend of mine who'd be into her 80s has said, oh, funeral? Just put me up the top paddock, let the crows have a go.  Tracey: Yeah. My dad wants to be buried in a cardboard box, and I think that's a wonderful idea.  James: We all say that, don't we? That's a really common one as well. I hear that a lot on the radio. People will go, mate, just, I don't care, put me out with the, on the hard rubbish day.  Hannah: In the paddock, whatever it is… James: …the paddock, that’s the same sort of thing I said. You know, like, do we really want that, do you think?  Hannah: Oh, do we really want that? I do think Aussies are pretty pragmatic about death. I do think we have a certain streak in us that's kind of like, you know what, it's all a bit much fuss, it's all too much. You kind of even get these people who therefore say, don't have a funeral. You know, I really don't want to have a funeral. Please don't even, you know, no fuss. That can be kind of sad sometimes because I think it's some people kind of not acknowledging how many people love them and miss them.  James: Yeah.  Hannah: Um, but maybe it's also a bit of an Aussie humour, dry humour, that, that black humour again of kind of, you know, trying to laugh in the face of death. Why not?  Tracey: I would agree, but then we all get sucked in when we're in the funeral home, and they show you the cardboard box, and then they show you the glossy one that's 10 or 20 thousand dollars, and you think, did I really love that person that much, or should I do it? So it all feeds into what you were talking about before, that consumerism and overcommercialisation. James: Well, I also think sometimes, I would think it's about weddings. Weddings and funerals, well, who's it actually for?  Tracey: Yeah, yeah. Well it's a punctuation mark, isn't it? I'm a lifelong atheist, but  Tracey: I do enjoy, it sounds terrible, going to those kind of ceremonies, whether it's a funeral or a wedding, because it's important to celebrate or commemorate these changes, these huge changes. James: I love the sharing of stories at a funeral. People start talking.  Tracey: Well, you learn so much about someone's life that you may not have known. And also often they're rich for that dark humour.  I'll never forget my grandmother's funeral, who I was incredibly close to. And my father's new girlfriend loved my grandmother. She was so distraught she tried to throw herself into the hole in the ground on top when she was throwing the dirt in and I thought, well, that's intense.  James: That's good.  Tracey: That's, I've never seen that before. That's a first.  Hannah: Oh, I've seen that before.  Tracey: Have you?! Hannah: I will say that, you know, when yo

Let’s talk about death, baby From breaking the stigma to understanding the conversations we need to have before we die, beloved broadcaster and advocate Andrew Denton and clinical psychologist Dr Kerrie Noonan dissect everything we should and shouldn’t say about death. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors.  Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death. Featuring interviews with famous faces as well as experts in the space, we uncover what they know about what we can expect. There are hard truths, surprising discoveries, tears and even laughs. Nothing about death is off the table. Andrew Denton is renowned as a producer, comedian and Gold Logie-nominated TV presenter, but for the past decade he has been devoted to a very personal cause. He is the founder of Go Gentle Australia, a charity advocating for better end of life choices that was instrumental in passing voluntary assisted dying (VAD) laws across Australia.  Senior clinical psychologist Dr Kerrie Noonan is director of the Death Literacy Institute; director of research, Western NSW Local Health District; and adjunct Associate Professor, Public Health Palliative Care Unit, La Trobe University. For the past 25 years she has been working to create a more death literate society, one where people and communities have the practical know-how needed to plan well and respond to dying, death and grief. If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – [email protected]  Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel -- Disclaimer: Please be advised that this episode contains discussions about death, which may be triggering or upsetting for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. If you are struggling with the loss of a loved one, please know that you are not alone  and there are resources available. For additional support please contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636. TRANSCRIPT: James: Hello, and welcome to Life's Booming. I'm James Valentine, and this season, we're talking about death. Or, on this episode, why we don't talk about it enough. Death is really easy to talk about, but avoiding the subject just makes things even harder. From breaking the stigma to understanding the conversations we must have before we die, I'll be dissecting everything we should and shouldn't say about death with two fascinating minds. Andrew Denton is the founder of Go Gentle Australia. A charity advocating for better end of life choices, but you probably know him better from so many shows on our TV. And Dr Kerrie Noonan is a senior clinical psychologist and social researcher, determined to increase our death literacy. Kerrie, Andrew, thanks so much for joining us. Do you know one another?  Andrew: Yes we do. Yeah.  Kerrie: Yeah, along the way.  Andrew: We've had a few conversations about death, dying, literacy, all those things. Yeah.  James: How did you learn about death? Like when did you, and who did you go to talk to? When did you start thinking about it? Andrew: Well, I think you learn about death the way everybody does, which is you experience it. And the first time it happened to me, I made a documentary about teenagers with cancer, Canteen, the support group, and one of those young men died. And his parents very generously invited me to visit him as he was dying. And that was the first time I actually saw what death can be. And it was, it was very hard to see and then watching my own father die obviously was a profound moment for me because that was an unhappy death. But how I've learned about it since is, I imagine a bit like Kerrie. I've had thousands of hours of conversations with people who are dying and their families and their carers. And, I've learned so much about death I feel I've mastered it and can move on.  James: Yeah, true. That's right. Is that, is this what you mean by death literacy, that, that in some ways we just need to be talking about it more? Kerrie: It's, it's talking about it. That, that's one aspect. But it's, it's kind of developing your know-how and being able to put that know-how into practice. So, you can maybe talk about, maybe have some competency in terms of talking or maybe doing one element, related to death and dying. But, when you put it into practice, that's when death literacy kind of really comes to life. It kind of sits, some of the research we've done recently, it's evident that death literacy sits in networks, in-between people, within people, in communities, so it's not just about individuals.  James: I suppose I'm wondering about at what point we might have this, or there'd be a difference in death literacy with 20-year-olds than there would be with 80-year-olds, right? Kerrie: Yes, experience changes your death literacy. That's probably the strongest predictor. So we started this research looking at networks of care and how people kind of come together. And so where we're at now is we're looking at what are the predictors and what are the things that we understand so that we can understand more about how to make more death literacy, I guess. So an example, that's your question, well I can give a real example. When my mum was in hospital, we were, we needed someone to help us to move mum from the hospital to home because we wanted to take her home. And we couldn't get the health system or the medical system to do that. So I put an email out, a text message out to my friends who happened to work in the death space. And within an hour we had someone, within two hours, mum was home. And so. That took, you know, that set off a little chain of conversations, emails, texts. And while I was doing that, my brother was getting the medication sorted and other things sorted for my mum. So we really, we utilised, to bring my mum home, we utilised like every bit of knowledge and our networks to do that. James: But you were at the centre of, you know, you, you study this, you're a, you know, an advocate for it, and so you're at the centre of it. You would have a network. I mean, I don't know that I've got the same network. I'd, I could put it out to my friends and they'd go, we could bring wine. Oh, you know, like, I don't know that they'd, I don't know that they'd be that practical. Kerrie: But that's actually helpful too. You need your friends to turn up with wine and, and bread and whatever comforts. So we found that younger people, for example, so we've done two kind of national studies just to kind of demonstrate your point about younger people. Between, 2019, pre COVID, and 2023, we looked at the population and we looked at death literacy and how it changed. And we found that voluntary assisted dying and COVID had an impact on people's death literacy, particularly for the younger people, anyone who's experienced a death, anyone who's been through loss, has higher death literacy than people who haven't. And so, there's lots of things that contribute to that, but, COVID, I think, we're still kind of looking at the data, but certainly voluntary assisted dying because of the way that you need to kind of have conversations, you need to actually reach out to your networks, you need to talk to doctors, you know, there are actually lots of interactions in that that really stretch your skills and, your understanding. James: It's only a few generations back when death was very present in our life. The conversation about voluntary assisted dying has perhaps allowed us to have that conversation again. Have you seen that?  Andrew: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, there's, there's a lovely, witty observation that in Victorian times they talked about death all the time and never about sex. And today it's the other way around. It's not that many generations ago where the body would lie in the house and there'd be a viewing in the house. And so it was, it was a more human thing, the way Kerrie's describing her friends helping her mother come home, that's a communal and human thing. And when I talk about voluntary assisted dying, I must and I want to bracket it with palliative care, because really, despite the fact politically they were oppositional during the legislative debate, they're very much on the same end of the spectrum, which is we're all going to die, and the concept of palliative care, which is also the same idea of voluntary assisted dying, is not, ‘Let's get you to the dying bit, but how do you live as well as you can while you are dying?’ And that dying process could be very short or it could be very long, it could be several years. You, usually you can't be really clear. So the whole point as Kerrie said about voluntary assisted dying and palliative care is you talk about these things. And interestingly, I think there's a paralysis around death, and you know, you said, well, my friends wouldn't know what to do, they'd bring wine, as Kerrie said, that's no bad thing. But if you put out a call to your friends to say, I need to move my fridge, somebody's going to say, I've got a ute.  James: Yes.  Andrew: …your need, perhaps, to leave hospital and go home, that's the same question… James: They might have a ute. Andrew: …It's just, it's just a human question, which is, I need help. And not only do we get paralysed in the face of death and assume that the experts have the answers, but the experts often get paralysed in the face of death. They don't know how to have those conversations eithe

Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death. Featuring interviews with famous faces as well as experts in the space, we uncover what they know about what we can expect. There are hard truths, surprising discoveries, tears and even laughs. Nothing about death is off the table. If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – [email protected]  Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube    Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify  For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast  Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Many of us put off creating or updating our wills, often because it feels like it's something that can be addressed later. But life is unpredictable, and having a current will is vital to protecting your loved ones and reflecting your wishes when the time comes. In this special episode, host James Valentine speaks to TV personality and keynote speaker Barry Du Bois about his very personal story, and hear from Safewill CEO and founder Adam Lubofsky about the importance of securing your legacy. About the episode - brought to you by Australian Seniors.  Join James Valentine as he explores the incredible stories of Aussie characters, from the adventurous to the love-struck. Across 31 inspirational episodes, Life’s Booming explores life, health, love, travel, and everything in between.  This special episode commemorates Australian Seniors inaugural Update Your Will Day on 20 October, and reminds Australians of the importance of protecting your legacy for the ones we leave behind. In 2011, keynote speaker and former The Living Room presenter Barry Du Bois sat in front of a team of doctors and heard the immortal words: it's time to put your affairs in order. Facing a cancer diagnosis, he turned his attention to securing his legacy for his family. Safewill founder and CEO Adam Lubofsky created his online platform to help Australians simplify the process of writing and updating their will. He shares some of the common will myths and reminds us all of the importance of regularly reviewing your will to ensure your estate plan is current, legally valid, and reflective of your intentions.  If you want to share your story to Life’s Booming, visit seniors.com.au/podcast. Watch Life’s Booming on Youtube  Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts  Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify:  Listen to Life's Booming on Google Podcasts  For more information About Australian Seniors visit seniors.com.au/podcast. Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel Sonic Experience Agency See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.