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IntroductionWe seem to be in the mood for reflective end-of-career episodes (see Dan Pressman’s episode one & two if you haven’t already as Al’s is very much in that vein).  Al has seen a lot in his career (yes, he’s retired although we recorded this before that was made public), thought a lot, and done a lot from Essbase consultant to Oracle EPM management.  For those of us still in the workforce (Which I am guessing is practically everyone except my mother, who listens religiously to hear her little Cammy.  Thanks, Mater, it is nice to know that you’ll always be a fan.  I hope.), hearing the thoughts of those who have completed the arc of employment might trigger our own thoughts of wither our so-called careers. Does the example of others inspire you or perhaps make you ponder where you’re going and where you might end up?  That’s for you, Gentle Listener, to decide.    Join us, won’t you?

EPM Conversations Episode 34 – A Conversation with Pressman, Dan:  ASO Man, Part 2 It couldn’t be more Dan than this (nope, Buzzsprout doesn't allow graphics, so this will have to do)The Official Mnemonic Alphabet To be used in all Telephonic Communication At the Chase Bank on Wentzville Parkway Letter    Pronunciation          Example -----     -------------          ----------------------------------------------- A         R                      How are you? C         Q                      Pool cue D         W                      Double U E         I                      Eye F         Weigh                  There’s no “F” in weigh G         N                      Gnat H         Ah                     Hour I         E                      Iwo Jima J         H                      Jose K         N                      Know L         Y                      Llama M         N                      Mnemonic O         W                      One P         N                      Pneumonia (or Swimming – the silent Pee) Q         Key                    Quay S         C                      Sea T         Z                      Tsunami W         Y                      Why Y         U                      You It's a lot better at epmconversations.com, but you get the idea. That, as a joke, encapsulates, personifies, is an exemplar, and simply sums up his unique (and generally quite corny but also quite loveable) sense of humor.  That vein of humor runs through this second episode.  Here’s a couple of bon mots: I was fired from projects for making things too fast.“Don’t shut him down, hire him!”I never learned when to keep my mouth shutTake chances on yourselfDon’t be too concerned with dollars instead of long term learning and challenge.  “That’s the fun part”.Teach yourself, it’s always faster than being taught. Oh my, those aren’t jokes:  they’re heartfelt pieces of advice gained from a lifetime of experience and reflection.    Join us, won’t you?

One of FourIn my so-called career, I’ve known four geniuses: one evil, one chaos made flesh, and two nice; Dan is in the last group. There are many theories around what makes someone a genius; I define it as the ability to make connections where others cannot see them. Dan is professionally (at least in EPMland) best known for his deconstruction of ASO Essbase, understanding its architecture and fundamentals, and how to optimise it. If you were in his "Essbase ASO Performance:  When NOT to Depend on MDX" session at Kscope 2010, you know just what I’m talking about I was sort of slack jawed by the end of the presentation. How on earth did he figure this out? BSO Essbase’s architecture was (and is) fully documented. Thank Arbor Software. The same was (and still is) not true for ASO Essbase. Thank (or don’t) Hyperion Solutions. Dan took apart ASO Essbase, hypothesising, testing, rejecting, confirming, and simply intellectually beating the product halfway to death to mirror Codd’s 12 rules for OLAP. His work revolutionized (and made my life considerably easier amongst many others) ASO Essbase theory and practice. If you weren’t there and you practice Essbase, you probably have a copy of Developing Essbase Applications:  Advanced Techniques for Finance and IT Professionals. You can still (it came out in 2012!) buy it here on Amazon. One day Oracle will change the architecture behind ASO Essbase (maybe this has already happened – I’m out of that space now), but until then, and maybe even in future if they mimic the way ASO works/worked, Dan’s chapter is the place to be. Listen to the podcast and hear how Dan did it and of course more back story of a fascinating man in an equally fascinating industry across time. Part 1 of 2In editing (and yes, I did it this time round and yes, I’m not very good at it as you’ll hear glitches in the recording – sorry) an episode, there’s always a temptation to cut content to fit an hour long format for brevity. However, EPM Conversations is about, well, conversations and if you were sitting in a coffee shop with Dan, you’d want to know a bit about his personal life – that’s more in the second part although you’ll get a good feel for him in this episode as well. Be seeing you.

30 Years in the Making and Oh Yes, Can I Borrow Your Belt?I first met Tim when he worked for (I think this is the name – it’s so long ago it is outside of the ken of the World Wobly Web) Lex Software who had built, with Microsoft, an Executive Information System (EPM/CPM in today’s language) toolkit that married Excel to what was then Arbor’s Essbase (at least I think this is what it was). Tim was the teacher and we (my fellow J&J Executive Information Systems colleagues) were learning about the new client/server paradigm. For any J&Jers out there, this was at 410 George Street, right across the street from Corporate; I believe it is still a J&J office. That is exactly everything I remember about that training session, other than this: Tim forgot his belt, felt self-conscious, sized me up as being (probably) nice and generally the same size, and asked if he could borrow a belt. With me as recent(ish) college graduate, I had exactly one black belt to go with my suit (everyone wore suits), that left my one other belt which, alas, you cannot see because of Buzzsprout's limitations.  Think brown braided belt with a brass buckle.  Truly, an artefact of the 1990s. I think Tim felt he was underdressed for J&J – at the time (and maybe still is – it’s been 29 years since I last set foot in a J&J office) a very conservative and buttoned down place. The Past is a Foreign Country, They Do Things Differently ThereWhat was it like, boys and girls, when all and sundry wore a suit to work? Kind of like this: ( Wow, again, you can't see it.  Buzzsprout, either you need to add graphics or poor old Cameron needs to get a clue.  Maybe both.  Try this link back to EPM Conversations.) No, that is not me (you are over on the website, right?), but in fact Tony Randall (Who knew I hobnobbed with Hollywood royalty?  I didn't, of course. AI can be a wondrous thing; I have no idea who the woman is.) What is accurate is this is how people dressed. I cannot speak for the woman, but that is a fine example of a charcoal grey sack suit and a repp tie -- my Ivy Style exemplar. Work environments are so different now, it’s almost inconceivable. Such is the passage of time and through time reputations are made – Tim’s is stellar as is this second part of his interview. Join us, won’t you?

It seems as though I’ve known Neviana seemingly forever, but it can hardly be more than 10 years.  Neviana quite simply packs more into a decade-plus of friendship than many pack into a lifetime – she is that kind of dynamic personality. Beyond her charisma, she harbors a fierce vision and ambition and drive:  EPM, analytics, ODTUG board member, and now chatelaine of Aquila’s Nest Vineyards, in Newtown, Connecticut.   Celvin and I are fans – we think you will be as well. Join us, won’t you?

Yes, it’s different, but we still think it’s good.  Also, this is all you’re getting. The latest OneStream Splash (that would be 2025’s) is behind us and interesting it was. While I’ve typically live-ish blogged Splash (and what was once Open World and of course ODTUG Kscope), I was largely (completely0 unable to attend sessions because I was ensconced in a fancy suite in the Nashville Westin conducting Black Diamond Advisory’s BDA Splash Podcast (yes, Celvin and I are on multiple podcasts – it’s a tough life).  The show is a series of interviews with OneStream customers and employees in a talk show format.  I like to pretend I’m a significantly geekier Dick Cavett.    Sorry about the noiseWhat I and my objectively taller, younger, smarter, and subjectively better looking brother from completely different parents did was record our thoughts each night in the hotel lobby.  While – maybe – our thoughts will pique your interest (I hope you’re ready to hear Artificial Intelligence again and again and again interleaved with a mild amount of scepticism and yes there are other products in the OneStream world), I’m sorry to share that the sound in a marble hotel lobby can be quite dramatically variable.  Regardless, we think you’ll be able to understand our conversation.  Join us, won’t you?

26 Years in the MakingTim and his company, Applied OLAP, has been in the Performance Management space for 26 years.  That’s longer that many of the people in this space have worked, longer even than some of the people in this space have been on God’s green earth.  That longevity isn’t accidental, but rather the result of a vision, a not unmeasurable amount of determination, a focus on continual product improvement, and oh yes – a pretty damn cool product – Dodeca.  I think so highly of the product, I wrote a chapter about it in my second book, Developing Essbase Applications:  Advanced Techniques for Finance and IT Professionals.  I will also note that this book is out of print and Amazon are pricing it at $170.  Perhaps the Dodeca chapter is partially responsible? Tim has been the visionary, developer (in the beginning, although he now claims he “does no work” which I am pretty skeptical of), and constant cheerleader for Dodeca and Applied OLAP’s other products. Tim is always at ODTUG’s Kscope and holds ongoing events where new and existing customers – if you haven’t been to one of them or indeed Kscope, you owe it to yourself to do so. In the meantime, have a listen to Tim in this episode and the one to come. Join us, won’t you?

Three competitors in one podcastI have been characterized by some (my coworkers, my friends, my family, me) as being a tad cynical.  Part of that cynicism is borne from experience, part of it is seemingly intrinsic to my nature.  I find that I am often not disappointed when it comes to a certain level of disbelief. At the same time, I am beyond pleased and maybe just a little bit less jaded when I see people not behave in a self-interested way and instead come together for the benefit of all, even if the “all” is our little world of Performance Management.  That is exactly and precisely what this podcast contains.  It is heartening. Three recruiters, three companies, three varied (and that is understating the case) backgrounds, in just one podcast.  Maybe I don’t hang around mature adults enough?  Maybe these are just special people?  Both? In alphabetical order, Freya Bull of Codex, Patrick Cronan of WorkTrust, and Austin Perez of Specialized Solution Services, all came together to talk about who they are, what they do (and how it affects you, Gentle Listener), and the value they bring to all of us.  Connecting the dots indeed. Three very, very, very different backgroundsI think Performance Management geeks are just that – geeks.  We plow the same furrows year after year, seemingly content in our little world, coming from a functional finance or technical world.  I’ve met an awful lot of people in this space and the origin story, while interesting, is often quite similar. The guests of this podcast are anything but:  national level athlete, politics (no, not what goes on in your company, but real US politics), and restauranteur.  You’ll have to listen to understand their journey. You’ll also have to listen to understand the value that these three recruiters bring to the podcast and their perspectives on work.  It really is a very different and very interesting episode. Join us, won’t you?

Matt Bradley, SVP of Development at Oracle will likely be well known to listeners; he’s a familiar face to customers and partners and can often be found talking about Oracle’s EPM strategy at conferences and other events. Matt has worked for Oracle not just once but twice, led a healthcare decision support company way back when we still called it decision support, and joined Hyperion as the development for Planning on Valentine’s Day 2000. Listeners old experienced enough to remember the very first release of Hyperion Planning can thank Matt. We talk about the future of on-premises Oracle EPM and Oracle’s policy of offering a rolling ten-year runway to customers who haven’t yet decided to move to Cloud for some or all of their business processes, how many customers remain in that position (via a gentle dig at a notable competitor’s market penetration), and about why that might be. Speed to a revised plan is becoming more and more crucial and we Matt shares his thoughts about how this can be supported via ML, IPM and Gen AI features. These features are a definitive break from the EPM past which have enthused the development team. We also learn about where that team sits in the world, how developers are selected and how the EPM development group works together with other Oracle teams. Matt also talks about his customers, describing just how much (or little) of a customer’s activity can seen by Oracle – they can measure the adoption of new functionality, for example – and the way that newer entrants to the workforce have brought with them higher expectations of user experience that match what they see in non-enterprise application software. Finally we talk about life outside of work. Raised in Warrenpoint, Northern Ireland and educated in Belfast, Matt and his family now reside in Dublin (but the Californian one). Matt is married to his high school sweetheart whom he met while performing in a stage production of They Shoot Horses, Don’t They? - which, respectfully, your hosts would not have guessed given a dozen attempts. Matt shares his tastes in literature, film and his admiration for (arguably) Northern Ireland’s greatest footballer of all time.   Spend an hour with Matt (and us) by listening to the entire episode.  Join us, won't you?

Oh How The Tables Are Turned I trust you’ve listened to Part the First of the interview with Gabby.  This episode is better.  Why?  Simply because Gabby starts interviewing us and we get a taste of what it’s like to be on the other side of the metaphorical table.  I’m not going to reveal any more than that – it’s simply too good and if you don’t end up laughing at Gabby’s interrogation techniques and our squeamish answers, well, you must be bereft of humor.  Join us, won’t you?

What’s past is prologueI (and the rest of your EPM Conversations hosts) first knew Gabby from his time in Essbase product management, a role he has long left.  Celvin and I (50% of your host population) have been out of the Oracle space since 2017 so it’s difficult to remind ourselves that nothing stands still, and certainly not a dynamic personality like Gabby.  Forgive us two if some of our questions dwell overmuch on the past, where Natalie’s and Tim’s are focused on today.    However, Gabby’s past story is one worth exploring as it informs the present – from the military to multiple startups to Big Red.  Throughout it, he’s his inimitable self, bringing humor (yeah, this is the plug for the first episode, but wait till the second episode – it’s…incredible, and it doesn’t make sense unless this episode is heard first) and a playful wit to the performance management space. Just some of the highlightsHyperRoll and its first home in Oracle Express, ASO, the lawsuit, HyperRoll’s purchase by Oracle. just what exactly is Hybrid Essbase (the number of hours we’ve debated just what is happening under the covers), Essbase’s place today and tomorrow, working at small and large firms alike, helping out idiots who write multiple books on Essbase, and philosophy.  That’s an awful lot to cover in an hour, hence this episode as part one of two. Join us, won’t you?

This one is differentEPM Conversations has been lucky to have a variety of Performance Management guests:  vendors, people from other places and tongues, fantastic players in our little technological space, and of course the Women in EPM series.  All of them are great (even the ones where Yr. Obt. Svt. is a guest), insightful, interesting, and often quite funny.  In short, they are the stuff that technology podcasts dream of.  What we have not had is a consultant who does not primarily have a technical bent.  By that I mean, EPM Conversations is a technical podcast, it is presented by four consultants (although our participation switches round as our guests’ background dictates) who (mostly, although as you’ll hear in this episode that isn’t 100% true) are techies first and foremost.  This episode’s guest, Sharon Wang, has an element of a technologist’s perspective, but at her core she is a management consultant focused on organizational change within the context of technology.  Without – hopefully – sounding like a hick from the sticks, I find that utterly fascinating.  It also opened my eyes about yet another professional path not taken in my so-called career because of the breadth that this dual focus brings to work, but such are the fortunes of war and of life. Empathy.  Consultants with a sense of empathy, said hardly no one ever. Oh dear, that makes consultants sound like monsters who care not a whit for their poor clients.  Of course that cannot be true lest said consultant wants a very short time in the workforce, but regardless putting oneself in someone else’s shoes can be difficult, particularly if you haven’t walked a mile in someone else’s shoes.  Yes, two idioms referencing shoes in one sentence but they work.  Sharon has that experience in industry and so understands the needs and goals of both sides of the project table.  Consultants work with clients during project implementation but then, if the Good Lord’s willing and the creek don’t rise, they leave at project end.  The customer then owns the application.  What happens then?  A good consultant, a consultant who understands the customer’s world – in other words, an emphatic consultant – understands these potential outcomes and their likelihood.  In my (gasp) 28 years of consulting I’ve sometimes been witness (surely never party) to a distinct lack of empathy; pain ensues.  A consultant that understands the other side of the conference table never lets that happen. Organizational change through Performance Management, or is that Performance Management through organizational change?We technologists often view technology as the lever to move the organizational world and we are often successful in that approach.  However, in my (gasp, yeah, again) 28 years of consulting, I have seen (alas, this time sometimes as party to, but always against my better judgement and will) projects that only focus on the system and not the people.  Sometimes clients need only a better mousetrap, other times they need a wholesale change in the way they think and work.  Sharon (and I might note Natalie does as well) sees that gap and how to fill that. There’s more, much moreJoin us, won’t you?

TitleA Portrait in Leadership:  Women in EPM with Oracle Barbie aka Kate Helmer A doll by any other nameKata Helmer, aka Oracle Barbie formerly known as Hyperion Barbie, Oracle Ace Director, and oh yes ODTUG board member is just one person, but oh my, what an accomplished one.    I’ve always been intrigued by Kate’s alias:  she’s quite obviously a professional of some import and yet names herself after a child’s doll.  Why? Subversion vs. celebration Barbie (the doll, not the guest of this episode in the Women in EPM series) – or at least I thought so before recording this episode – sort of has a not totally awesome reputation.  How wrong I was (again, Cameron, again?) and, having been the host (and listened to the episode eleventy times during the edit), how sure I am there can be real difference between a man’s and a woman’s perspective.  Or I was just wrong.  Or why not both? Kate views Barbie as an exemplar of a woman that can do anything.  Beyond the popularity of Barbie as a doll and the success of the recent Barbie movie, there are any number of academic posts on the subject. So is “Oracle Barbie” a sly flip of an incorrect impression or an overt embrace of a powerful woman?  Listen and find out. NB – I was strictly a 12 inch GI Joe (surely the only real one – those Wee Willie Winkie ones are sort of an action figure abomination) fan and they taught me that camping is fun, which although a nice leisure activity, was not a transformative life effect. The path to master data managementKate’s journey from the defense industry to Hallmark to consulting with an ever-increasing emphasis on managing the data that defines data is interesting.  What I also find interesting that Kate was introduced to Essbase in a manner similar to mine:  her manager asked her to take a look at Hyperion System 9 and the rest is history.  Performance Management has many branches but its roots are the same. Just who is your favorite serial killer?EPM Conversation episodes have a “rule of 3” where the guests tell us what their favorite three books, movies, and people in history are.  Nowhere in that list is the subject of serial killers although I suppose opening it up to “people in history” could include them.  Don’t believe me?  Go to about 52:25 to hear the immortal words. “You’re not a true crime junkie until you have a favorite serial killer”.  All I can think of is this song. The rest of the storyThere’s more, much more than the above précis.  The only way for you to know is for you to listen to Kate’s episode. Join us, won’t you?

Let’s not forget that it also sent Natalie’s kids to collegeWe (your EPM Conversations hosts) owe a lot – a financial kind of debt as well as a professional one  – to Shankar and Hyperion/Oracle on premises /PBCS/EPBCS/EPM Cloud Planning.  Seriously, I first set eyes on what was then Hyperion Planning Desktop (which alas I cannot find a screenshot of but know it’s out there somewhere), I thought, “Cameron, you idiot, this is the future” and so it has been through (gulp) decades of work.  Never, our Performance Management audience, look askance at a sure thing.    Part of that product’s success has been Shankar Viswanathan’s careful stewardship of a product that grew from an application wrapper around Essbase (and a horrific and quickly abandoned Win32 app that was supposed to be the workspace of users of All Things Hyperion and yes, Shankar, I really do hope you didn’t create that) to a complete EPM cloud platform.  At its core, planning and budgeting hasn’t at it’s core really changed all that much (ZBB came and went, driver based planning is still here, and yes AI/ML now has its turn in the Wheel of Planning  Fortune) but what we still call Planning certainly has.  Of course Shankar didn’t write each line of code nor did he define and design every bit and bob of UI, but it’s easy to see his steady hand in Planning’s evolution through the lens of customer success. IntrospectionEach and every one of EPM Conversations’ guests is a joy for they are enthusiastic, open, thoughtful, visionary, and just about everything one might hope for in a colleague and a friend.  Shankar is all of things and yet he is different.  By that I mean Shankar is quiet in the physical sense.  We struggled with Shankar’s voice until we (we = Celvin) realized that is simply how Shankar talks; he is well worth listening to and the volume button on your phone isn’t that hard to use.  Sometimes how we think is reflected in how we speak:  introspection, consideration, reasoning, and sensitivity don’t need to be shouted to be understood.  Shankar is well worth a listen. Maybe the most interesting partAll of what I wrote about Shankar’s professional interests hold true for his personal ones.   There’s a wide range in all three areas of historical men, literature, and movies:  E.O. Wilson, , Gandhi, and Steve Jobs for the historical figures, in reading, Ayn Rand as a teenager, to E.F. Schumacher’s  Small is Beautiful, John Kenneth Galbraith’s  The Anatomy of Power, and Fritjof Capra’s  The Tao of Physics, and finally a varied palette of movies in Shawshank Redemption,  The Bang Bang Club,  and Heat. This is, in case you’ve not been able to tell, one of my favorite episodes. Join us, won’t you?

Yr. Obt. Svt. finds broad cultural movements to be interesting both conceptually (what are they, why do they exist, how did they start, and the rest of the who, when, and where list) and in practice because of their broad outcomes and impact on individuals.  My inveterate curiosity aside, women in STEM (STEAM) has been a current in social and professional change for roughly the past decade.  Various organizations and companies, e.g., ODTUG, PwC, OneStream, Oracle, and many others, have been active advocates of this program In many (most, really) respects, EPM Conversations is a series of, um, conversations with the leading lights in our Performance Management (and others) community and we have been blessed with a truly eclectic and interesting set of guests.  EPM Conversations has a started a new series in that vein – Portraits in Leadership:  Women in EPM.  Our first guest is Minie Parikh.   She is a true renaissance woman:  driven, smart, far sighted, artistic, perceptive, altruistic, warm, positive, and more and oh yeah, right in the thick of EPM with her firm, EPMI. Minie's  story is inspiring:  a first generation American who rejected her expected professional path and instead became a Big4 consultant, cofounded a boutique consultancy (EPMI), is a guest on this podcast (ahem, that’s only kind of a joke, one that is quite firmly tongue in cheek, but it is quite hard to pique our collective interest and oh by the way, she too has a podcast), while leading through active participation and by example in WIT.  If that isn’t leadership, I don’t know what is.  And lest you become overwhelmed by all of this, there is of course that human story, and it’s kind of out there. Love and marriage, love and marriage, go together like an SmartView queryWith the most profuse apologies possible to Old Blue Eyes and Sammy Khan, love and marriage and Excel and Smartview and Essbase rarely, and I do mean just about never except maybe this one and only time, come together and yet in Minie’s case, it most absolutely did because she met her husband, Nihar Parikh in a bar where they bonded over their mutual love of SmartView.  It is totally geeky cool and very sweet.  Never say there’s nothing new under the Sun. The first of manyFingers crossed, our new series finds favor with you, Gentle Listener.  One of the great things about this podcast is the ability to quickly jump from one theme to another.  As this section header notes, Minie is not the last.  Join us, won’t you?