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In this captivating episode, Gail Doby sits down with fine art photographer and interior design graduate George Diebold. Gail shares her personal journey as a collector of George’s work, highlighting how consistent weekly email marketing over several years eventually led her to select two major pieces for her new home. George reflects on opening his commercial studio in 1978 and building a reputation with Fortune 500 companies in New Jersey before earning his interior design degree at age 50. He discusses why interior designers are sometimes hesitant to specify photography over traditional paintings and breaks down the technical nuances of dye sublimation (metal printing), which offers extreme archival durability and vibrant color depth. George also shares the stories behind his Hawaiian landscapes and floating plumeria shots, while offering a critique of AI’s impact on the authenticity of the photographic medium. Photo used with permission. © GEORGE DIEBOLD In this episode, Gail and George discuss: Long-Term Nurturing via Email: How Gail followed George’s weekly emails for 6–7 years before purchasing art for her new office space. Going Back to School at 50: Why a home renovation project on Kauai inspired George to enroll in an interior design program alongside 20-year-olds. Why Designers Hesitate on Photography: Overcoming the myth of photography’s “reproducibility” and avoiding the trap of generic, copycat imagery. The Backstory Behind the Art: Why telling the harrowing story of long-exposure lava captures or aquarium-shot floating plumeria helps designers sell photography to clients. The AI Debate: Why altering real-world moments with artificial intelligence contradicts the foundational purpose of recording a genuine moment in time. To browse George’s works yourself, visit his website https://www.georgediebold.com If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s15e5-shownotes https://youtu.be/qR2WcsTLR_o Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript GAIL DOBY Well welcome to the Creative Genius Podcast, George. GEORGE DIEBOLD Thank you very much, Gail. GAIL DOBY Well, it’ll be fun to have this conversation. I have ⁓ I’ve followed you for a very, very long time. I think I started looking at your photography. I bet it’s been six or seven years ago. And yeah, and I was thinking about it and every time I would get one of your emails, don’t know how I got on your email list, but I would look at your work and I would browse through all those things thinking, I really want one of your pieces. And then when we finally bought this new house, and you can see the picture behind me. That was the one that I bought from you earlier this year. And I just bought a second one from you this year. And I ⁓ am really happy to have those pieces because they’re really interesting and of course beautiful, beautifully shot. So thank you. That’s how I got to know you. GEORGE DIEBOLD Thank you. ⁓ yeah, you you were on my constant conta I do a weekly email ⁓ image ⁓ mailing ⁓ primarily to designers and collectors. And ⁓ I guess that’s initially how you found me. Yeah. GAIL DOBY Right. Right. And so it does work to do email marketing because it did take a long time. I just didn’t have a spot to put things in my other house, but when we built this house, it’s larger, so I had the space to do it. So I finally have my own office, which is great. Perfect. ⁓ yeah. So absolutely. And I’m enjoying these a lot. I look at them every day and just admire them. So and I get to see them in my background all the time. ⁓ Yeah. So let’s talk about your background because you actually are a photographer and you have an interior design degree. And it was kind of later in life that you did that. So talk to me about what came first and ⁓ what brought you to interior design. GEORGE DIEBOLD I opened my studio, my photography studio in 1978. ⁓ a bit after college. I graduated in 75. ⁓ I got my design degree when I was 50. And how that happened was we would spend ⁓ a big block of the summer, ⁓ my wife and my son and I ⁓ vacationing and me shooting in Hawaii. And ⁓ I I found after a while that it really didn’t matter that I was back in my studio, that I was still able to run my business from Hawaii. So we decided that we would buy a home out there and we decided on the island of Kauai, bought a home, ⁓ and I made plans to bring it down to the studs and renovate it and then turn the garage into a studio. So I could go back and forth between Hawaii and the East Coast. So I did some rough sketches and I made some detailed notes. I got turned on to an architect. And when she saw them, she said, you should consider studying design. That’s really as far as it went. when I returned back to the East Coast, I just said, you know, all right, I’ll do that. So I enrolled in Keene University’s design ⁓ program. ⁓ So for about two years I was running my studio, then I would jump in the car ⁓ almost every day, drive to ⁓ Union, New Jersey, where the campus was, have two or three classes. Every night I was doing homework and then plus coordinating the rebuilding of the house in Hawaii. So ⁓ it was a bit of a crazy time, but I had a I had a lot of fun and I was definitely the oldest person in the class, that’s for sure. ⁓ I ⁓ you know, I was just surrounded by all these kids, which they thought it was kind of funny. So yeah, it was a good time. GAIL DOBY Did you ever do interior design for clients? GEORGE DIEBOLD I the only thing I ever did interior design for was ⁓ it helping me specifying stuff with people like yourself and doing homes that I owned. ⁓ after it seemed like after I finished my design degree, ⁓ then my business got my photography business got extremely busy again. And ⁓ I was doing a lot of shooting in Hawaii. I picked up a lot of clients in Hawaii. So ⁓ the the short answer is ⁓ no. ⁓ I have a degree in design and ⁓ really I just used it to to help me better explain myself to designers and present myself to your community. GAIL DOBY Mm, interesting. Well, and I would have to say that in all the work I’ve done, yes, I’ve selected artwork or I’ve selected photography for clients, but it’s never been one of the dominant things I’ve selected for clients. So I don’t know that we as a trade are hesitant about specifying photography, but maybe we’re just not thinking about that as one of the things that we’re planning our designs around. So why do you think designers don’t think about photography very much? GEORGE DIEBOLD I think th there are a couple of reasons. I think designers are hesitant to ⁓ for one thing because they’re hung up on the premise that a painting there’s only one painting and a photograph can be reproduced multiple times, which there’s really no denying that. But ⁓ oddly ⁓ I can ⁓ really not even remember a time, even though my editions are extremely small. I c I ⁓ Designers never ask me how many of these are you making? So it doesn’t really seem to be ⁓ a b a big problem for them. ⁓ I I think also, you know, a f a painter gets a canvas and ⁓ you know, it’s like he’s got he’s now he’s creating this thing on the you know, and it’s just like so just a it’s an original thought and and it’s just like his. putting his soul on the canvas and but I think you have to realize for a photographer, especially somebody working ⁓ professionally like I do, it’s so involved, not only from a monetary standpoint, the the investment, I mean, just even like the picture behind you. I mean obviously I had to get to Hawaii. I spent six weeks in Hawaii, which you can imagine what that cost, ⁓ making the prints. ⁓ All of that ⁓ goes into it. So it sort of balances out. ⁓ I I think. But I I think ⁓ really the core thing is that design designers just think that there can be like so many copies of the photograph. ⁓ One of the big problems is that I think a lot of photographers who are trying to get somewhere copy what other successful photographers do. So the result of that is that. Designers ⁓ tend to look at photography and say, another another picture of the Grand Canyon. another picture of this Japanese maple tree in the garden in this exact same. It’s almost like the photographers go and they put the tripod in the exact same spot that somebody successful did. So ⁓ not trying to ⁓ toot my own horn, but I find when people a lot of times the first comment people make about my work is. GEORGE DIEBOLD They say, it’s different. I I’ve never seen that. Or and I think that’s also partially because I do location work as well as studio work. ⁓ And ⁓ and ⁓ I think that helps me a lot because I have a very wide ranging portfolio. GAIL DOBY Mm-hmm. GAIL DOBY Mm-hmm. And you do advertising photography too, right? GEORGE DIEBOLD Yeah, not to the extent that I ⁓ once did. I mean, that’s really ⁓ when I opened my business, that’s primarily what I did. I did annual report work ⁓ and ⁓ advertising work for like Fortune five hundred company of companies, which I was in that sense I was very lucky to be ⁓ in New Jersey. When I started my business, ⁓ the the the thought was, you know, if you’re gonna be a big time professional photographer, you had to be in New York City. ⁓ anywhere else was just ⁓ it was like Deadsville. But what nobody realized was that most of the major corporations in America had their world headquarters in New Jersey. And I knew New Jersey. So I was able to get in my car almost every day and drive to a meeting with ATT or Sony or any of the pharmaceutical companies. So ⁓ I I was known in New Jersey simply because everybody would see me there. So that’s really how I

In this masterclass episode of the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby dives deep into the complex world of exit planning with former business operator turned wealth manager, Nate Collins. Nate shares his multi-layered financial background and details his experience taking over a struggling, 150-year-old theatrical licensing firm in 2011, engineering a major operational turnaround, and successfully selling it to the largest privately owned music licensing company in the world in 2019. Despite achieving an extraordinary wealth-creating event, Nate candidly shares his struggle with post-exit depression—a phenomenon backed by a PricewaterhouseCoopers study revealing that 75% of business owners profoundly regret selling their companies within a year. He explains how an unexpected injury led him to author a comprehensive exit-planning workbook designed to guide owners through the personal, business, and financial “legs of the stool” during a two-to-five-year exit runway. In this episode, you’ll hear about: The Emotional Toll of Selling: Why 80% of businesses that go to market fail to sell, and why the emotional friction triggers heavy overreactions for unprepared owners. Investing in the Right Advisors: The critical difference between standard accounting and a specialized M&A team (transaction accountants, M&A attorneys, and specialized wealth managers). The Liminal Period: Understanding the psychological phase between identity shifts, marked by feelings of confusion, uncertainty, and worthlessness. Prosperity vs. Well-Being: Nate’s personal shift from chasing personal prosperity to discovering that fulfillment only comes from structural personal well-being. Defining True Purpose: Why purpose is directly tied to being relevant to the lives of other people and serving something bigger than yourself. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s15e4-shownotes https://youtu.be/ErpFF1-lpE4 Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript GAIL DOBY Well, Nate, I’m so glad to have you here today. You have had the most interesting career from trading distressed debt on Wall Street to managing commercial real estate at private equity firms, turning around a theatrical licensing company. And I think you have a few more little tidbits you want to share with me too, so why don’t you go ahead and add to that? NATE COLLINS Thanks, Gail. I’m so excited to be on this podcast. thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to your audience. yes, so I have had a very circuitous career. It seems a little bit disjointed. However, at the end of the day, it has always done it has always been financially related. It has always been about investing money. And the two other ones that you mentioned. is after I sold that licensing company, that theatrical licensing company that you discussed, and we’ll discuss that later, I then went on to work at a hedge fund and now I work in wealth management. So yes, you know, always in the financial field. But you may say, wait a second, theatrical licensing, how is that finance? That that sounds like theater. Well, ultimately the real business was entering into agreements with the rights holders, the intellectual property rights holders, and entering an agreement to be a licensing agent on their behalf. And the way that it worked was very similar to real estate investment. We’d pay the the the rights holder up front a large amount of money and then once we had that that the rights to license that property similar to the right to our If you own a busin if you own a a building, you lease it out. In this case, we licensed the property out for a specific amount of time and we try to maximize our return on investment by optimizing those licenses. GAIL DOBY Interesting. Well, you’ve also been a business owner, then that was before you were an a a financial advisor to them. And so how did that help you, eventually selling that theatrical licensing company? NATE COLLINS Yes. So I that was such a wonderful such a wonderful chapter in said circuitous career that I’ve had. And I really loved running a business. I really enjoyed operating a business. The the licensing company I took it over in two thousand eleven. It was almost gosh, two hundred and fifty years old. I’m sorry, a hundred and fifty years old. Not older than this country. A hundred and fifty years old. and when I when I took it over in two thousand eleven, it was a real turnaround story. It had just been poorly managed for decades, but with some some exceptional luck and a great team, we were able to turn it around and become one of the most dynamic companies in the industry. And we ended up selling it in two thousand nineteen for a a just more than we had ever expected. And it was it was a lot of fun. Obviously, like any business, I I had a lot of sleepless nights. So that experience though, how does it help me now? You know, I walked in those shoes. I walked in the shoes of a business owner from from having those sleepless nights, being concerned about employees Being concerned about whether you’re making the right investments in the company. Sometimes thinking that maybe you went you were a little too out too much out over your skis and and being concerned and looking out for threats and looking out for opportunities. And then having the the opportunity to sell the business to a strategic buyer, the largest. privately owned music licensing company in the world ended up buying our company. So it was a tremendous experience, full of ups and downs. And when I work with business owners now, I have that that sympathy of actually having been there. I can I can relate to their their NATE COLLINS their concerns because I know their challenges. I also know their opportunities. I know where business owners typically are not focused and spending enough time. And I know where they can do more to optimize the values of their business or the the value of their personal wealth. And it really is enjoyable because it’s my purpose. My purpose is to support business owners through all parts of their journey, their business journey from inception to exit. And it makes me feel it makes me feel really good to have that purpose. It makes me feel needed. It makes it me feel like I matter to people. And so, you know, my best days are any day I get to talk to my clients or a prospective client talking about their business, helping them solve problems, helping them create strategies that that achieve their goals. GAIL DOBY You know, it’s really interesting. and and we’re going to dive into exit planning and thinking about how to prepare your business for sale. And as we start doing that, I’m approaching that because I’m thinking about that myself. And I know that a lot of our listeners are in the same boat. They’re thinking about what is that future and how long does it take to prepare your business for sale. So I’m definitely gonna go off the questions that I sent you and we’re gonna maybe go off on a tangent and talk about some things that are related to preparing for what is a very big moment in almost any owner’s life when they’ve worked for years building their business, and then it’s time to really think about that future. So talk to me a little bit about how you approach going through that process with somebody. Preparing them for this. NATE COLLINS Sure, absolutely. Well, first, let me just share a little story. Earlier this year, in February, I slipped on some ice, fell down some steps, broke some bones in my back, got a concussion. and I couldn’t move for a couple weeks. Well, I when I say I couldn’t move, I meant I was I was laid up in bed for a couple of weeks. fortunately it was just some fractures and I didn’t need surgery or anything. But the one thing I could do was type. So I actually wrote the I wrote a book on exit planning. Actually it’s more of a workbook and it guides a business owner through basically all the important steps to consider when when you are planning to eventually exit your business. And this workbook is set up to to guide somebody through anywhere from say two years to five years. lead runway before the exit. ideally the more time the better, of course. And the key to having a successful exit, there are there are a number of keys, I guess, really. but let’s just start with the first one is really identifying three goals. Your personal goals, your business goals, And your financial goals. You know, when I say personal goals, what are you trying to accomplish out of selling your business? Why are you selling your business? Is it because you want more time with family? Is it because you’re just tired of the grind of doing the business? Really understanding that. And then thinking about are there other things to do? Are there other ways to solve those problems? Look, selling a business is really hard. Eighty percent of businesses that go to market fail to sell. So, and I hope that everybody here, everybody who’s listening, has an opportunity to sell their business someday because it’s an extraordinary experience and it leads to some great opportunities when you have that sort of wealth creating event. However, it is hard. So why are you selling your business? Right? But NATE COLLINS on from the personal side. And what are you what are you planning to do afterwards? And we can get into that later also. That’s a that’s a whole nother can of worms. from the business side, understand the goals. What do you want your who do you want to be the successor of your business? Who do you want to be the new custodian of this thing that you built, this child that you raised almost? obviously I can’t really compare a business to a child. nothing’s quite like that. But the amount of energy that a business owne

In this powerful and emotionally charged episode, Gail Doby reunites with former community member Susan Feffer to explore the intersection of business systems, personal crisis, and operational grit. Susan opens up about her childhood, where she discovered her natural gift for spatial design and human connection while navigating a traditional academic environment with an undiagnosed learning disability. Susan recounts how she rebuilt her life after a 2015 divorce, turning her hands-on experience in staging and house-flipping into a full-scale design firm. She shares why she decided to make her first major business investment with the Pearl Collective in February 2024, an operational “insurance policy” that proved vital just months later when a series of major health crises hit her small core team. In this episode, you’ll hear about: The Currency of Connection: How struggling in school taught Susan to use her social intelligence and relationship-building skills to survive and succeed. Shifting the Scarcity Mindset: Overcoming a conservative financial upbringing to realize that investing early in staff and structure is an act of betting on yourself. Preparing to Get “Unlucky”: How a four-month sprint of implementing freight policies and clear contracts allowed Susan’s business to keep running smoothly after her rare blood cancer diagnosis. Playing Hurt: The incredible cultural alignment that took place when Susan’s lead designer, Ashley, and her sister/operations manager, Patty, were also diagnosed with cancer. The Future Succession Plan: Susan’s ultimate goal of scaling back to the owner’s seat so her beloved team can eventually buy and run the firm. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s15e3-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1wzPHLdhM&pp=ygUQcGVhcmwgY29sbGVjdGl2ZQ%3D%3D Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript GAIL DOBY Well, Susan, it’s so great to see you. It’s been a while since we’ve gotten together and we are just we miss seeing your incredible smiling face. So thank you for being here. SUSAN FEFFER And thank you for having me. This is quite an honor. Very exciting. GAIL DOBY Well, it’s a pleasure. Well, I wanna start off. You have been a part of our community in the past and took a little break for a little while. You’ve had some things going on and we’ll get into that in a few minutes. But tell me about your journey of getting into interior design. Was that intentional? What happened in your life to get you here? SUSAN FEFFER So as a little girl I loved design. I loved, you know, moving furniture around. I could play in doll houses for days and Fisher Price and Barbie, you know. it came really easily to me and I loved it. And I can’t say that a lot of other things came easy to me. So I had a mother that nurtured that and we would do the show houses and you know, she For when on my 16th birthday, I wanted Laura Ashley balloon curtains and I wanted a matching bedskirt and you know, comforter. And that’s, you know, I was always that girl. And so school was always a real struggle for me. I was not a great student. I was lived a life with an undiagnosed, you know, learning disability. And I was the youngest of five. So I sort of went where the carpool went. And During my, you know life as a child, as a student in a traditional environment, I learned I had to learn quickly how to survive and get through and identify who was gonna help me get there. So there was no blueprint, there was no rule you know, template to say this is what you’re supposed to do. I just had to figure it out and I had to find a solution. And there was a bit of chaos and sense of urgency with that. But I did it. And I would find that, you know, there’s Molly, and she’s in the second row, and she’s got her kilt to her knees, and she’s super quiet. So I’m gonna ask Molly for her notes, and then I’m gonna ask her to tutor me. And my mom’s gonna pick up her notebook, and you know, and then in return, I would ask Molly. To go to the party on Saturday night. You know, that was my currency. Like that came easy to me. Social things came easy to me. People that was easy, you know, but school was really hard. And I look back now, and it was actually the greatest thing that happened to me because what you know, I feel like it was so hard, and God was like giving this to me, but at the same time, like. SUSAN FEFFER This was the greatest gift because I was able to touch into, tap into a part of me that found my strength and it found my strength in the struggle. It found that I was great at connecting people. I was able to figure out how to get through without like on my own. so anyway, I went to design school after high school. That was also a disaster because I was an interior design major and a textile design major. I’m 54, so this was a very long time ago. And why I was at college, they were teaching us CAD on DOS, you know, and that was like brutal for me. I mean, brutal. So, like again, I was like a failure and I wasn’t gonna like this wasn’t gonna cut it. And then I remember my teacher being like, you know, my CAD teacher, like, you’re not gonna be an interior designer. Like this is never gonna work. Like you can’t do this. And it was too hard to no one was getting there was no notes to get. There was nothing to Xerox. There was, you know, no one that even wanted to come to the party. They were a different breed of people. So it was like okay. So I ended up like transferring and through the night school I got into Villanova great school and I, you know, just kind of got through school. thank God I got through by the skin of my teeth. And then I pursued a sales and marketing career. And then I went to New York and Boston and and that was what I was supposed to do because I was good at that, right? Like I loved relationships. I loved finding like win-win situations and I genuinely love people. But I never really gave up on the design thing. I felt like the dream, I got into real estate. And I should fat go back a little bit. When I was in college at Villanova, I knew design wasn’t gonna work. Interior design, I didn’t think I’d gonna make it. So I got a part-time job at a real estate company, answering phones and booking their appointments. And I wanted this job because this was before the internet and all that kind of stuff. SUSAN FEFFER Cause then I’d have the inside scoop on where the beautiful, like, like the open houses at the big mansions would be. So I would have like, you know, I would I would go on Sundays to these open houses and I would like throw on my mom’s mink coat and, you know, just show up. I didn’t have a I didn’t have two nickels scrubbed together and I’d just wanted to see how they were decorated and designed and I wanted to see their bathrooms and their kitchens. And and then I would tell the real estate agent. Like, I’ll be back with my fiance, you know. And they’re probably like, who is this girl? You know what I mean? Like it just crazy. so anyway, after sales and marketing, business, journey dabbled with real estate, I took a break and was a stay-at-home mom at 30. but I was flipping our own houses and, you know, staging houses for realtors. So in 2015, when my life sort of fell apart through divorce and I had to just start all over, that’s when I started my business. GAIL DOBY Wow, that is quite the journey to get to here. So a lot of no’s, a lot of frustrations getting to this point, but it seems as if it was what was meant to be for you. Was that a shock to you once because you were SUSAN FEFFER I think as you get older, like I think as you get older, and then like the more struggles that you have, the more setbacks, the more, you know, loss or heartbreak or you know, whatever it is, it’s gonna look different for everybody. But I think you get better at handling the hard stuff and you know what what you can keep if you can keep moving forward and pivoting. And healing and learning from your mistakes or your setbacks and putting you in a position of growth and a path forward, you you realize that all of those things were put in front of you to get you where you are today, right? So I’m such a big believer in that. So I I can’t always say that I thought that. And I’ve certainly been the girl on the bathroom floor, you know, paralyzed in fear and and and and scared and Anxious and you know, but I think the more times you go through it, the more you realize on the other side of that door, that bathroom door is like God and grace and gratitude, you know, because all those moments are setting us up for where we are today, you know? Sure. A little deep, but so I don’t think my my design path was conventional. I don’t think anyone’s listening to this thing. yeah, me too. I didn’t I didn’t feel worthy. You know, I felt like I I wasn’t able to do this because of that professor telling me like I’m never gonna be an interior designer and going to a power weaving class and thinking that textile design was gonna be my thing and realizing I hate this. This is science. Like this isn’t fun. Like this is hard, you know? so I gave up on that. But I was always trying to find a way, an angle that I could still use it because I realized that’s where my that I was good at it. Whether anybody wanted to tell me or not, I knew it. So I can’t say that it knocked my confidence because I think, you know, I’m incredibly humbled and life’s humbled me a tremendous amount. But I was fortunate enough to have like. SUSAN FEFFER you know, parents that didn’t put a tremendous amount of pressure on the things that I wasn’t good at. They were just like, you know, get by, you know, get through it. Like, you’re great. You’re fun. You’re, y

In this soul-stirring episode, Gail Doby welcomes long-term collaborator and peer Lisa Kahn back to the podcast to look at the cartography of a 12-year professional relationship. Lisa reflects on her multi-generational roots in design, her early days as an in-house designer for Lutron Electronics, and the critical moment she hit deep-seated burnout. The heart of the episode explores the anatomy of a business turnaround. Lisa shares an unforgettable strategy from 2009 when, staring down a zero-cash payroll nightmare and a dropped design deposit, she used her credit card to buy 50 blank notes. By writing unprompted, radical “love letters” of gratitude to 50 critical mentors and allies, she completely shifted her financial energy current—resulting in a $3 million influx of business in under 60 days without asking for a single project. Furthermore, Lisa and Gail lean into a beautiful, vulnerable space regarding their concurrent work on trauma processing, addressing the dark shadows, and moving beyond the exhausting habits of people-pleasing and self-protection. In this episode, you’ll hear about: The Academic Rejection: Why Lisa initially explored transitioning to design education, only to realize the traditional structure of academia couldn’t contain her vision. Rethinking How We Work: Gail’s pivotal advice to Lisa that it wasn’t the interior design profession burning her out, but the structural architecture of how she was executing her business. Sanctuary as a Tool for Resilience: Moving past the superficiality of aesthetics to design rooms that physically cradle the human nervous system through ritual, incense, and sound. A Survivor’s Light: Lisa opens up about coming to terms with surviving past domestic violence, and how she translates that survival into a profound message of healing through physical environments. The Neuroscience of Aesthetics: Lisa’s current academic obsession with neuroaesthetics, sacred geometry, and Harvard’s 85-year landmark study on human connection. The Barn at Sanctuary Naples: A breakdown of Lisa’s incoming 5-acre Florida headquarters, detailing workshop spaces, content studios, an outdoor music amphitheater, and immersive live learning retreats. Lisa has been a guest on the podcast before. Listen back to her previous episode, “Grow As You Go or No?”, here. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s15e2-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFhmiZdHZWw Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript GAIL DOBY Welcome to the Creative Genius Podcast. Lisa, this is number three for us. We’ve done two others before. Yes. LISA KAHN I have loved both, so honored to be back. GAIL DOBY It’s great to have you back. And it’s so interesting ’cause I looked back at your records to see when you and I met and it was January twentieth, two thousand fourteen. LISA KAHN How about that? It’s been a hot minute. GAIL DOBY A hot minute. Hot 12 minutes. Twelve more minutes. Yeah. Well, I thought we would just kind of meander down a path today. So we’ll see where this path takes us. And I’d love for you to just take it where you’d like to. So let’s start first with how you got into design. LISA KAHN Yeah. LISA KAHN Well, I actually originally got into design because honestly, I grew up in a family business and my mom is and was a designer. And so, you know, it was a very natural thing for me to do. you know, design was very much part of my household. You know, it was what I did on spring breaks, it was what I did on summer vacations, you know, we really all worked as a family. there were three kids in my family. And so all five of us would climb in the car during summers and drive to the business and all work there because it was also a retail store and be involved with all of that. So yeah, it was just a very natural thing for me to do. It was not actually what I thought I wanted to do. You know, my mom said to me, Lisa, you’ve got a knack for this. You really should follow design and do it. And I’m like, no way. You know, this was in Northwest Ohio. Everything was on such tight budgets and everything was At that point, you know, this was a long time ago. So Waverly was a division of Schumacher and they put out these wallpaper books that had like 12 things that all matched with borders and fabrics and everything. And that’s what you did for everybody. And I just thought to myself, if I have to be working out of these Waverly books for the rest of my life, I just don’t think I have the fortitude. but you know, I just hadn’t really been exposed. And so when I went to college and ended up changing my major from business to design, because I just realized at some point that I really needed that hands-on creative outlet every single day. it really my life went in directions. I couldn’t have imagined, you know, I ended up taking a job for Lutron Electronics as their corporate interior designer right out of school, which took me away from Ohio to Pennsylvania. And then I got married there and, you know, ended up moving to Florida and really getting into design then. And that was when I really saw. what design could be, because when you have bigger budgets, bigger projects, you know, bigger contacts, there is a world out there that I just had no exposure to. And that’s when I really fell in love with our profession. It really is just truly what I’m meant to be doing. GAIL DOBY It’s a natural for you. I look at all of your board behind, all the inspiration, all the things you have behind you. And it I just look at how and I just think about how it connects to all the projects I’ve seen of yours and yeah that through line that you have of the peaceful, the serenity, the all the things that are so important to you. So it’s really cool to see that ’cause that is authentically you. And I know you and I’ve had a few conversations about being authentic to your brand, right? LISA KAHN Exactly. Pivotal one scale. Life changing. Yes. GAIL DOBY Well, it was better than the day when you said this was like what was a near death experience? LISA KAHN Exactly. my gosh. GAIL DOBY That kinda. LISA KAHN So good. It does. You know, Gail, you have helped me transform my life more than once. So I have to thank you for that. GAIL DOBY Well, I I hope it’s in a positive way. gosh. So all right. So you went to Lutron, you got married, you moved to Florida, you had kids, you found that this was your passion. This is all great. It’s wonderful. And then what happened? LISA KAHN you know it is LISA KAHN You know, and then after I had done a bunch of amazing projects, we had really, you know, grown the firm, I just found myself really burned out. and I couldn’t figure out why. I just really thought I fell out of love with design. I thought that I didn’t want to do this anymore. I explored all kinds of things. I explored what would happen if I became a sales rep. I’ve known lots of designers who’ve gone and done that. I looked at what would happen if I left the field of actually designing and went into education because I love teaching and I love young people and I would love to inspire, you know, the next generation of designers. But when I looked into that and met with one of the universities, I realized that, you know, I don’t know that the world of academia is quite ready for LisaCon. So that was not really a great fit. And the more that I looked around, I just felt like I was thwarted at every turn. And it was actually around that time that one of my design colleagues recommended that I call you. And so you and I had a conversation. You were on the way somewhere. I don’t remember what it was. You were doing something amazing, I’m sure. And as I was telling you how burned out I was and how I was just really thinking about how I could move into a different sector of the industry and what else I could do, you suggested really something that changed my life in that moment. And you said, you know, I don’t. actually think it’s the industry that’s burning you out, Lisa. I think it’s the way you’re working in the industry. And that really caught me up short. And I thought, what on earth could she mean? But yet it resonated with me. And I at that point, you know, scheduled a time for us to get together and really delve into my business because I realized that you really could be right. And I had never had anybody really look into you know, the nooks and crannies of my business, look at the way that I was working, building my team, you know, structuring things. I had just never had anyone do that before. And so working at that with you, I realized you were right. And I really was the way that I was working. And so by making some changes, by making some strategic hires, by reworking the way I spent my time and the things that I was focusing on, delegating things that really were not my joy. LISA KAHN really allowing other people to have the freedom to do their job and really perform for me and not being micromanaging was another one. I mean, there were just so many things that I was doing that were really making me be unhappy. And it really wasn’t the actual design itself. And truly leaving it, I think I would miss it even today. GAIL DOBY That’s so good to hear because we have of course known each other for a very long time. And I’ve seen you go through a lot of ups and downs with this. And even yeah after that time you had some other ups and downs. And why don’t you share one or two of those that were pivotal for you in in terms of really understanding who you were and maybe how you were in the business? LISA KAHN You know, I think that we have been through all kinds of ups and downs. I mean, we’ve just been through ups and downs within the last few month

This week on the Creative Genius podcast, Gail Doby welcomes Mel Bean, the principal of Mel Bean Interiors, to talk about her 20-year journey through the interior design landscape and the predictability of scaling an elite firm. Mel pulls back the curtain on how a structured leadership framework—specifically partnering with an exceptional Director of Operations—unlocked a positive operational flow that allowed her to step back into her role as a visionary. She discusses overcoming limiting beliefs regarding business ownership and how deep dive financial modeling completely shifted how her company tracks profitability and projects revenue. Finally, Mel outlines how she structures a hybrid environment that gives her staff the flexibility to be deeply present for family milestones without sacrificing professional excellence. In this episode, you’ll hear about: Changing Paths: Mel’s realization a few years into college that she needed to leave to unlock her hidden creative side. Shopping vs. Designing: Breaking down the 20+ decisions that go into a single furniture piece, and why social media can be a powerful client-education tool. The Non-Billable Employee: Overcoming the fear of hiring a non-billable Director of Operations, and how that single choice can skyrocket your growth. Data Over Doubt: Why escaping isolation and swapping raw, un-redacted financial metrics with design allies across the country fuels true inspiration. “Why Not Me?”: Moving past imposter syndrome and the limiting beliefs of a non-entrepreneurial upbringing to confidently pursue massive lifestyle goals. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s15e1-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPH-3mmR8Y Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript GAIL DOBY Welcome to Creative Genius. I’m so glad you’re here, Mel. And I can’t wait for us to have this conversation. So here’s my first question for you. Who would you have or what would you have on a desert island if you were stranded? MEL BEAN it’s funny that my first thought that I have is that I want my espresso machine so that I can make my morning latte. GAIL DOBY I’m sure there’s some plugins out there somewhere. MEL BEAN I I’d need an ice maker then as well though, because you can’t have a hot latte on a desert GAIL DOBY Well, there you go. I like that. Okay. Well, interesting thing to think about. And I’m sure there Yeah. And I bet there might be a few people on your journey with you. Who would you have with you? MEL BEAN Probably a first for you. MEL BEAN Well, I would want to take my boys for sure. my sons Cooper and Chase. They are seniors in high school. And of course, other than just being obsessed with them as my children, I also think they are so much fun. So they would turn a kind of an unfortunate situation into a good time, I think. GAIL DOBY that sounds like fun. Well, I’ve only seen them in passing on our Zoom call, so it’s really fun. MEL BEAN I might be biased, but I think they’re pretty great. GAIL DOBY Well, I’m sure you feel that way as every mom should. So good for you. Well, let’s talk about your journey into being a designer. How did you get started with that? MEL BEAN Gosh, well, I started college dead set. Well, even in high school, I was going psych pre-med. I was good at math and science. And so I went really deep into college prep and into all of the classes that would set me up for success in that career. And it wasn’t until a couple of years into college that I started doubting that. I got into some tricky classes that I could do fine in, but I wasn’t excited about. And I started to get the concern of is this what I’m going to feel like the rest of my life? And it wasn’t immediately clear to me that I wanted to do interior design. But once I did discover it, I felt like something had clicked into place when I changed my major in my first class. And it just made me want to go back and get a do-over on I wish I’d taken the art classes in college, but I was too focused on all the college prep. I wish I’d had done these things that not only would have kind of led me to my career path sooner, but also would have just helped me to get to know myself in a different way. And so I was really thrilled to get into interior design in college. And then as quickly as I could, I got an internship so that I could see, okay, what is this really like? What is this, what is the day to day? What does it look like? I know it’s not like a HGTV show. I know that’s not the reality of this industry. And so fortunately I loved it. GAIL DOBY Did you were there any surprises when you got into it? MEL BEAN So many, I really didn’t have a lot of expectations of what it looked like. I think that’s I didn’t grow up with any interior designers in my life. And so I think that’s part of what took me so long to consider it as an option for myself. now it seems a little obvious with hindsight. and so I went into it, the advantage of that is I didn’t go into it with a lot of expectations. I hadn’t seen the way other people had done it before me. So I was really fortunate to learn under several different design firms here in Tulsa where I live and really wonderful people who kind of went above and beyond in training me and giving me opportunities. And so I did see everything from creating inventory and showroom and the back end of what all goes into that through managing projects and the infinite number of details that go into it. I think that’s something that most clients are so shocked by. Today is the amount of detail that goes into every project, the number of decisions that go into it. So that was surprising to me, but also felt like a great opportunity. I saw all these ways that really nuanced ways in which I could guide a project or guide the the feeling a space gives me and the people who use it. GAIL DOBY Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it’s something that seems so normal for us that are designers because we can envision what it’s going to look like done, even when we’re just looking at fabrics and pieces of wood and just samples. And I think it’s it’s really hard for people who aren’t visual like we are. So how do you get over that hurdle with them of how they helping them envision this? MEL BEAN You know, it’s been interesting with social media. That’s recently been kind of a trend that designers are doing and we haven’t participated as well, that you show a single image and pop up all of these decisions that went into that one image. And we’ve had a lot of clients say how helpful that was to them. it is our job to create really clear expectations about the time and investment it’s going to cost our potential clients. and so we guide them through our process. We really explain everything, but we we communicate the difference between shopping and designing. Sometimes I wish we could just shop. Sometimes I wish I could just select this one item, this one item, this one item and put together a a design that way, but it’s not the way we work. I wouldn’t actually want to work that way. It would be so limiting to our vision. Whereas one furniture piece, as you know, may have, you know, 20 decisions that have to be made in order to get to that one look. And so it does help. Social media helps a little bit. Educating on our process helps a little bit. And then we do use visual tools and present like this is the fabric, this is the wood sample, this is the wood species, this is the trim detail, this is, you know, and so many, this is the exact size. Here’s the cushion infill. there are so many more options. But that can feel overwhelming, but at the same time that’s why we’re here is we’ll tell you what we think is best. So you don’t have to make all those decisions. We are the experts who have educated ourselves on which info from that vendor is the best for this sofa type and that chair type. So you don’t have to do any of that. That’s part of what you’re hiring us for. GAIL DOBY Mm. Yeah. Well, and I think that the you’re making a very good point that most clients don’t understand that. They don’t understand the complexities of this business. And I remember just talking to a couple of my CPAs that I’ve worked with over the years, I’ve probably worked with four so far. And over the years they’ve said, You have the hardest business I’ve ever seen. It is so complicated and so many details. Wow. And they just don’t understand why it has to be so difficult. But again, like you said, one item could have twenty decisions easily. MEL BEAN Yeah, we’ve experienced that as well. We’ve actually had to transition from CPA firms over the years to find the right fit because they’re not used to a model in which we’re billing hourly for time, we’re purchasing products, we are marking up those products, we are you know, it’s just a lot of moving parts that isn’t it’s not really like any industry that I’m aware of. GAIL DOBY Mm-hmm. It is not. It is not. For sure. I know that getting into this for myself, I was a career changer. So for me, I remember that I was shocked when I had my when I got my design degree and I said, Okay, well, I’m done now. Now how am I gonna get business? And luckily I had a sales and marketing training, but I remember that I was just perplexed because I thought, you know. I have a business degree, but that doesn’t mean I know anything about this business. And it took me a long time to learn the inside and outside of the business to the point where that’s really what I love is teaching that part because the it’s so complicated for our business. MEL BEAN But and it’s constantly changing, as you know. GAIL DOBY is, it is, yeah. Yeah, especially with AI. AI is chang

In this episode, Gail Doby welcomes Ann Feldstein, a 25-year industry veteran and the force behind Moxie Marketing. Ann reflects on her journey from working on the De Beers “Diamonds are Forever” campaign to serving as Vice President of Communications at Kravet before launching her own agency ten years ago. The heart of the discussion focuses on Ann’s keynote research into why women often harbor judgment toward one another. They explore internalized misogyny—the unconscious adoption of sexist attitudes—and how it manifests in everything from holiday clean-up expectations to judgments about makeup and parenting. Ann also breaks down the “fairy tale complex,” explaining how classic stories like Cinderella taught young girls to view other women primarily as competition for male attention. Tune in for this conversation that is always relevant, but perhaps even more so in the female-dominated industry of interior design. In this episode, you’ll hear about: The Evolution of a Career: Ann’s 15-year tenure at Kravet and her transition to founding Moxie Marketing, which exclusively serves the interior design space. The “Karen” Label: How modern slang is used to silence women who speak up when they are unhappy or mistreated. Double Standards in Society: The contrast between how society shames young girls for their pop star fandom while celebrating men for their passion for sports teams. The Perfectionism Trap: Why women are often hesitant to take risks because they haven’t been taught that it is okay to fail or make mistakes. The Power of Succession: Ann’s observation that many women build thriving businesses but fail to create a succession plan, missing out on passive revenue and a lasting legacy. The Highlights of the Design Industry: How Gail’s experience with design clients has been primarily positive, building communities of women who are happy to collaborate instead of compete. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e10-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w6Ze2vOavk Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript And it’s so exciting to have you on the Creative Genius podcast and I am really happy to have you here today. Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be on. I’m a huge fan of The Pearl Collective and your podcast, and I’m so honored to be on. Well, thank you for being here. Well, I want to talk to you a little bit about your background and how you got into the industry to begin with. Great. This month is actually 25 years for me in the industry. I started my career at JWT and I worked on the De Beers Diamonds campaign and that was an interesting time. And then I went to a smaller boutique firm and I worked on other luxury brands. And then I met someone and fell in love and didn’t want to work agency hours. And I saw that Cravet was looking for a marketing person and I applied and I hit it off with the team and I really liked the family and they offered me a position. And it was such an interesting time for me because it was a real learning curve. And here I thought I was like sort of set in my career and I had this new learning experience. And I fully admit as a marketing person, it probably took me a good year or two to fully understand the industry works and how best to serve the interior designers. I was at Kravat for 15 years and in 2015 I stepped down as the vice president of communications and I opened Moxie Marketing and we just celebrated 10 years. Yes, 10 years. Time really does fly. At Moxie we work with brands and interior designers, anyone in the interior design space. We do only take on clients in the interior design space because that is really where my experience is. And I work with brands on marketing and sales. I work with designers on communications plans, of course, PR, events, social media, everything to help designers and brands grow their business. Hmm, how exciting. Well, and I know you’re working with some people that I happen to know and love well. So that’s really exciting. And I’m really happy to know you because I think in this industry, it’s really important to have people that grasp what we do and understand the complexities of this business because it is not a normal animal. No. It is not. It isn’t. And I think that one of the things that’s so hard is trying to find somebody who can adapt to the changing industry. And I think you have done that really well. Thank you. I’ve worked really hard at that and trying to understand the nuances of everyone’s business, not just the brands, not just the interior designers. I believe we all play an important part in the ecosystem of interior design. I also think it’s such a special industry. That’s one of the things that I did notice right away when I started 25 years ago. People were so willing to help each other. And it really touched me in that regard. And then at Cravet, I got to work on the Ronald McDonald House project. And it was just wonderful to see all of my colleagues come together, competitors, other designers. Everyone came together for this really special cause. And I think designers and the industry in general are just incredibly giving. Mm-hmm. I love that part of the industry too. Well, let’s talk about you a little bit. I’d love to know what your guilty pleasure is. what is my guilty pleasure? I probably have a few. I love a day just sitting on the sofa with my dogs and the fire going and some good food and good Netflix and cozy pajamas and maybe a nice cocktail or reading a good book. That’s definitely a guilty pleasure of mine. I’m a huge foodie. So I don’t know if I would say that’s a guilty pleasure. To me, food is life. Yeah, I do enjoy my food and I love trying new food and cooking and all the things related to food. I even like grocery shopping. that’s, that’s alien to me. I haven’t been in a grocery store in years. My husband does all the grocery. I do love it, not at the holidays. And I like to be there as soon as they open first thing in the morning, but I do enjoy grocery shopping. is so interesting. I’ve never heard anybody say that. There’s something wrong with you, I know I don’t love regular shopping unless I’m traveling but grocery shopping it’s my happy place my gosh, that’s so funny. I don’t even cook anymore, so I don’t relate at all. All right, well, who would you take with you to a desert island, say you’re stranded? Well, I definitely would bring my dogs. And then, you know, I think there’s a few different people. My best friend, because we could talk about anything till the cows come home. I’d love it if it was my mom, but she’s not with us anymore. You know, someone that’s interesting and then someone that would help me not go stir crazy as someone with ADHD who’s always on the move, even though I’m sure I love my relaxing time, someone that could keep me sane. I love that. Well, let’s talk about one of your favorite topics. you had come to us a while back and had mentioned that you’d love to be speaking on this topic. And at the time, we weren’t ready to have a conversation yet because we we already had everything booked for the podcast. But I think it’s such an important topic. And I think that today, let’s talk about why women are so hard on women. And I’m so curious, what prompted your passion for this topic? So it was really interesting. A couple of years ago, I was having dinner with one of my girlfriends and she’s a mentor to me. She’s older than I am. She is also in marketing. And since I met her, ironically through a crab, it when I first started, we just clicked and she has been a terrific mentor to me and a dear friend. And she comes over on Christmas Eve. She spends Christmas Eve with my family. And a couple of years ago, we were celebrating her birthday at dinner and another friend of hers had come by for drinks. And I just kind of casually mentioned that I think women are really hard on other women. And the two of them did not take it well. And the other woman, the friend, was actually in the process of being let go from her job. And she was putting it all on a woman and the reason she was being fired. And their reaction was so strong and took me by such surprise. I really, it kind of just gave me pause and I started looking into it. I just started doing research. As I mentioned, I do have ADHD. So, you know, my brain gets something and it just keeps going. And then about six months later, I was talking to a friend of mine, Sarah Kravitz actually, and I told her about what had happened. And she was the one that said to me, you know, and you’re really passionate about this. Like, I think there’s something you could do with it. A couple of months later then she invited me to kick off Cravett’s Women’s Initiative Network. And it goes out to all of the female employees. It’s a resource group for them for if they need support, coaching, anything like that. And I was their inaugural keynote speaker. And I put together a deck and it was supported by research from Harvard Business Review, Psychology Today, you name it. it wasn’t just my thoughts and opinions and it was such a great presentation and the women, were women in the building and then, everybody else was remote because as you know, they have showrooms and, and spaces all around. and once the presentation ended, like the women there, they stayed and they just wanted to talk about it and talk about it. And it was really eye opening. And even since then, I’ve just gathered so much more research about it. And I do think it’s a very important topic because there’s something called internalized misogyny. I think a lot of women and myself at times have had it and we don’t realize it. And it could be as

This week on the Creative Genius podcast, Gail Doby sits down with Danae Branson, founder of Elite Design Assistants, to discuss the transformative power of virtual support for interior design firms. Danae shares how she transitioned from the financial sector to design and eventually recognized a massive gap in the market for high-quality, specialized virtual assistance. With a team of approximately 110 assistants—primarily based in the U.S.—Elite Design Assistants provides everything from 3D renderings and CAD drafting to administrative support and senior design roles. Danae and Gail discuss the logistics of hiring remote senior-level talent, the common pitfalls of poor communication, and the “help me, help you” mindset required to make outsourcing a profitable success. In this episode, you’ll hear about: Specialized Outsourcing: Why firms are increasingly looking for virtual senior designers and how to manage that role without “boots on the ground”. Common Mistakes: The “Lack of Communication” trap and the “Flipping the Script” error—expecting a CAD specialist to suddenly handle invoicing. The Cost of Flexibility: A breakdown of current hourly rates for virtual assistants, and what advantages freelancers have over full-time employees for certain roles. Onboarding Success: How to treat virtual assistants as true members of the team, including firm email addresses and inclusion in weekly check-ins. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e9-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIMy2E3KEU4 Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Danae. And I love referring you all the time and we do this a lot. Your company is called Elite Design Assistance. So I’d really love to know your background. How did you get started in the interior design business? Yeah, so I actually started years ago, like in the early 2000s. And I just was self started kind of interior design. My husband was a contractor, but I kind of paid the bills in the financial industry. So it was, I don’t know, 2006, I actually started a virtual agency in the financial industry. By 2017, I wanted to get back into design and just to networking with different designers. that I was talking about, this is how, like my day job, so to speak. They were just curious why I did not create a virtual agency for interior designers. And so I decided I could probably do that. And when I started doing it, I had no idea it would blow up as big as it did, but that became my full-time job. And I no longer was in the financial industry and I no longer was an actual interior designer. So. I just run Elite Design Assistance and I love it. It’s super fun. I love helping interior designers, but I guess I just had a unique set of skills that kind of got me to where I am today. Well, tell us a little bit about your firm and what kind of services you provide and what is a typical thing for someone to come to you for. Sure. So we provide all sorts of services, basically anything that can be done virtually. So designers, we like to match them with virtual design assistants who have the experience, expertise that they need. So we do a lot of outsourcing with CAD drafting, 3D renders, admin sourcing, even senior designer position is becoming very popular right now. Like I said, basically anything that can be done virtually, we want to be able to help the designers. Well, absolutely. I know that I bet I’ve given you 30 referrals so far. I kind of lost count at this point, but a lot of people. And in fact, I was talking to somebody today about you. yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate it. And I love your clients. They are so great to work with. I love helping them. Yes. They are. Well, how many are on your team? We have right around 110 right now. Wow. Yeah, so located across the US. I always tell people 99.9 % of them are US based. I have a couple over in Europe, you know, just due to either military spouse or you know some other reason they’re over there temporarily. They usually are back, but occasionally people are OK with that time difference. We have worked with one of your graphics people that I is in Spain. Yes, yes you have, yeah. And she’s great. So we’ve had really good success with that. So we know because we actually use your services too. Yep, absolutely. Yeah, so you said that the common requests are a lot of CAD and you said a lot more senior designers. So why do you think that is the case? You know, I don’t know, it does ebb and flow. We kind of notice, you know, throughout the year and throughout the years, it’s certain services. I think right now everyone’s just getting super busy with projects. And those are the easiest things maybe to outsource right now is let’s get this CAD drafting going. Let’s get the 3D render going. Admin, a lot of people right now are coming to us for presentations, proposals, invoicing. And I think it’s just everyone is so busy. And for those designers in particular, I think those were the easiest things for them to outsource immediately. Yeah, and I think one thing though that I think is a little confusing and I have talked to some of the people that I’ve referred to you and hiring a senior, they are struggling with how to do that remotely. What are some tips that you could share, especially in a key role like that? Yes. Right. So absolutely. we actually are creating, I wonder if I even have it up still, we are actually creating a document right now about the steps and how to outsource to a senior designer and like some of the best things to do. Like, obviously they can offer anything from the space planning CAD documentation, the FFNE sourcing specifications, all of that. But some of the things we say is, you know, you really need to have that good communication in place. whether it’s a weekly video call or whatever that may be. But we are actually creating a document as we speak today. In fact, I was going back and forth with one of my seniors about making sure that it’s very clear so that when someone comes to us now wanting to hire a senior designer, we’re going to give them this document first so that they can look through it and know exactly how they’re going to work with the senior designer so that when they’re interviewing that person, They can spend more time on the actual interviewing of the person and their skill set instead of asking them, how are we going to work together? But basically it’s just, you know, those video calls, staying in communication, looping your senior designer in on your processes. And then they’re going to be able just to kind of lead the way as far as how they’re going to be able to help those designers and what they can. Obviously they can do everything virtually. But so that’s something we’re working on as we speak right now. So we should have that done fairly quickly. Yeah, well, and especially that’s an important role and you want somebody who can hit the ground running. However, they’re not going to hit the ground in your city. Right? Because they aren’t there. So you’re have to have processes to make sure that if there are jobsite visits, somebody internally is gonna have to do that. Yep, absolutely. Yep. Well, what are some of the things that people should know as a firm owner about outsourcing? What are the top tips on how to have a great relationship with your VA? Sure. The number one thing I do tell people is you do have to have some sort of organization around it. Occasionally we will get a request from somebody and they’re a little bit all over the place and I understand that because they’re overwhelmed and I get that. So we try to get them to just get a little bit more organized with the tasks they’re looking to outsource, maybe even prioritize those tasks. Because a lot of the people on our team do obviously, unless you’re hiring a senior designer, people tend to niche down. into the area of the industry they excel in the most. So if you’re needing CAD drafting and you’re needing admin and studio designer, that could look like two separate individuals. But we also just let them know that, you know, the most important thing is to just, you know, have that idea of what it is that you’re wanting to outsource a priority and then we can help you from there. So like we can get you started with one person if you need another person down the road for additional services. That’s how we’re helping people build their teams virtually right now. And so, you know, that’s been working out really well. What are some of the common mistakes that you see people make that outsource? Right. I would say again, that lack of communication, they maybe hire someone, throw everything their way, and then all of a sudden you don’t hear from them. And I’ll hear from a VDA like, I’ve emailed them three times. I haven’t heard from them in a week. I would say that’s one of the most, you know, and communication is huge. The other thing we see occasionally is I like to call kind of flipping the script. Maybe they hired somebody for a specific thing and then as soon as they worked with them, they decided that’s not the service they wanted anymore, but expected that exact VDA to do something completely different that maybe wasn’t in their wheelhouse. Maybe it was going to take them a little bit more time and in the beginning the designer was okay with that. But then upon seeing, okay, this isn’t going to be a fit, you know. If you’re going to hire someone for CAD, but then need them to suddenly do invoicing, you know, we, need to have a conversation with you again about somebody who’s going to be a much better fit. Most VDAs, honestly, they’re going to be hon

This week on the Creative Genius podcast, Gail Doby welcomes Mike Ufferman and Catrina Cooper, the principals of Loczi Design. Mike and Catrina detail their professional pivot from the restaurant and auction house operations fields into the design world, and how they eventually came together to lead a high-growth firm in San Francisco. The conversation explores the complexities of “internal sales,” specifically how they navigated the process of buying the company from the original founder, Paige, after years of working as her leadership team. They share the raw, “brothers and sisters” dynamic of their leadership style and how professional coaching helped them move past emotional friction to achieve true operational alignment. Hear about the strategic “miracle” team of advisors—from valuation experts to business attorneys—that allowed them to complete a full company transfer in under six months. Mike and Catrina also discuss the “unreasonable” client service strategies they’ve implemented to drive their current record profits and why they are already planning their own exit strategies. Key discussion points in this episode: The Pandemic Pivot: How the team managed the dual upheaval of a global pandemic and the founder moving across the country in 2020. Alignment over Accuracy: Why learning to work as a leadership team was a bigger achievement than simply mastering markups and financial data. Buying the Legacy: The emotional weight and “healthy scramble” of New Year’s Eve signatures to officially take over the founder’s “baby”. The Non-Negotiable Paperwork: Why you must discuss the “no-fun” topics—like buy-sell agreements and key person insurance—while you are still in the honeymoon phase of partnership. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e8-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqVzTVu0bks Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Mike and Kat. I am so happy to see you. It’s been a while and it has been an interesting journey for you two and I can’t wait to dive into that today. First, I want to start with how did you two get into design and start working together and just tell us a little bit. I’ll start with you, Katrina. Okay. First off, thanks for having us. We’re excited to be here with you. It’s our first podcast, so we’ll do our best. Yeah, holy, you’re virgins. So how did I get into design? as you already know, Gail, I was in the restaurant business for a very, long time before I started doing this. And at some point just realized I didn’t want to do that forever. And a good friend of mine said, you know, you’re kind of a natural designer. Why don’t you go to design school? So I took that advice and went to school for a few years and then just started working and, you know, have kind of built my career from there. So it, yeah, I mean, it kind of happened nice and organically, but a little later in life maybe than other people. Okay, yeah, well I didn’t go back to school till I was 35 for design so yeah. That’s about how old I was too, yeah. And I graduated, I think, two years later. yeah, it was good to go back. I think everybody needs to decide what it is that they’re called to do. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, it’s nice to have a second career and have some to do it later in life to it was more intentional. I mean, I was able to do a lot better than I think I probably would have right out of high school. sure. This is such a different industry anyway. And of course, you’ve gone from being an employee to owning the firm. We’re going to talk about that in a couple of minutes. But Mike, about you, how did you get into design? boy, that’s a long journey for me. I grew up in Ohio in Cincinnati in this small town and went to school for business at the University of Cincinnati and worked my way through college working at a hospital there and was sure that I was gonna go on to medical school and I really wanted to work in labor and delivery. That was the field. I got accepted there and studied a little bit and just decided it wasn’t really for me. Did a couple things and ended up out in California and I was working operations for an auction house out here. At the time it was called Butterfields, it was a very famous auction house in California. Another company bought them and I was running a lot of operations. I was seeing art every day. I was just getting a master’s degree in art education every day I came to work. I fell in love with design from that. And I had… You know, a change in life happened there and a friend of mine called me while I was literally vacationing on a beach in Mexico and said, Hey, I’m starting an interior design firm, get in your car and come back up here. Uh, and I did, and I turned around and I went back up and I ran his business with him for seven years and, um, he owns a building downtown and Paige, the previous owner of the company here was doing a photo shoot with Katrina and some others there. And I showed up and we talked and we ended up working together and. A couple of years ago, I went back to Berkeley and studied a design there and we’re here now. It is so crazy. Yeah, I think it really makes a difference if you have a business background too or some other experience coming into this and for you Katrina just having that hospitality background is perfect for interior design. Tell me a little bit about your firm who’s on the team, what the roles are, the responsibilities. I know both of you are the principals and the owners now, but what about the rest of your team? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, we’ve got six people in our San Francisco office. Of course, Mike and I work there and Ava is our senior designer handling some of the larger projects. We’ve got Diana and Jennifer who are both working as associate designers and then Eric is our staff designer. Samantha is hand in hand working with Mike. She runs our whole office and his whole life. And we also have Olga, who doesn’t work in the office with us. She’s our controller. She’s a big part of what we do at LOXIE. Well, that’s a good size team too. Yeah. I’m sure you’re feeling a little bit stretched because it sounds like you’re busy right now. Sure are, yeah. And we are having that conversation right now too about hiring a couple staff members, maybe another senior designer and also another staff designer. That’s great news. like hearing that. What was going on in your business? When you reached out a few years ago, we determined there was probably somewhere in the range of five to seven years ago when you reached out. And at that point, you weren’t the owners of the business. So what was going on that caused you to do that? I’m sorry. Yeah, there was a lot. We were growing quite a bit and there were three of us that were leading the firm. We knew what we wanted to do, but we were going in different directions with it. We all wanted to grow, but we were growing differently. We were having a hard time sort of coming together with what our plan looked like. And it was really sort of important for us to reach out to you at that point, just to to save the company really, to really figure out what we were gonna do next with the company, where we were gonna go with it. And that’s how we got to you. Yeah, and you said it was a friend of yours and I don’t even know who it was that you knew, but… Yeah, that friend of mine said, mean, going back to that, my friend, we were looking for a business coach and a friend of mine knew you or knew of you somehow, suggested that we reach out to you. And he said to me, you need to talk to her. She is the inter-design coach of the stars. We knew right then that you were who we needed to speak to and we never looked back after that. my gosh, that’s so funny. I have no idea why anybody would say that, but okay. Yeah, my little secret is that I try really hard to not work with the celebrity designers. They, it is a no-go for me. for. You Hmm, interesting. I hear more about that someday. Yeah. Yeah, that’s another story all by itself. Some stories I can’t really say, so I’ll just leave it at that. But anyway, so you had a lot of chaos going on and let’s talk about that crazy day that we had. So I flew out there and met with three of you and I remember meeting or waiting for you all at the office. I was there on time and everybody was a little bit late and I was standing outside and all these guys were out there. Brutal pruning in front of the office. Yeah, we had a plumbing issue, I guess, that day and they were trying to break into the plumbing line and they had jackhammers outside and they were really making a mess of it. So it was a no-go to be in the office that day. Yeah, and I remember that actually the whole plumbing wasn’t working and that we had to go to your house. And so, and then you guys starved me because we didn’t eat dinner. 1130 at night, I just remember that it was just one of those really unusual situations. We were having a very long day and I remember being so tired at the end of the day and you all dropped me off and I got… Right. ride back to the hotel and I think it was about midnight when I went to bed and it was just, it was a day. I can’t remember a day going now long before. Yeah, in my living room, like we had to leave our studio space and I live the closest so we all packed up and went to my house and had our VIP day. You realize that there are a lot of things you needed to change. So it was not a simple thing. And then we tell people that this is work. You cannot just come to us and get the suggestions. You have to do something about it. You actually have to implement. yeah, it takes a whi

This week on the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby welcomes L.A. DeRiggi, founder of Hudson Park Design, to discuss his meteoric rise from a design student to a successful firm owner. L.A. reflects on his unique background in marketing and promotions, explaining how he intentionally used an unpaid internship to validate his passion before committing to a Master’s program in Interior Architecture. The conversation dives into L.A.’s transition from being a Design Director to becoming the owner of his own firm after his previous employer retired. He candidly discusses the challenges of building a team, managing expectations, and the “static” that often interferes with a leader’s instincts. L.A. also shares a powerful metaphor for business growth through his experiences solo hiking the vortexes of Sedona, Arizona, where he learned the value of “choosing your hard”. In this podcast, you’ll hear about: The Intentional Pivot: How L.A. moved from business management and promotion to interior design, using his past experience to fuel his current firm’s rapid growth. A Growth Mindset in Action: How Hudson Park Design grew over five times in size by focusing on values, culture, and deep emotional connections with clients. Luxury as Emotion: Why L.A. believes true luxury is defined by a sense of ease and belonging rather than just a price point. AI vs. Human Intuition: Why the personal element and innate human connection will always give designers an advantage over automated rendering tools. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e7-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7reRy5-9Zvc Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Welcome to the Creative Genius Podcast LA and so glad to have you here. Thank you so much, it’s so great to be here. Well, I am so excited for everyone to hear from you today because you’ve had a little bit of an interesting journey and we only have a few clients that have done this where they’ve worked for somebody else and then all of sudden they either were they bought the business or they started a new business and you have just taken off like a rocket. So I’m really proud of you. I think that’s phenomenal. Thank you. Yeah, so let’s talk about first how did you get into design? So. I’ve always had this love and passion for design and moving things around and appreciating the flow of space and where things are and having nice things growing up. then I think we did in the sixth grade, we had to fill out, where do you see yourself in 20 years? And it was interior. I put interior designer. I just really felt like that was the right answer. in, gosh, who knows what year that was. At that time, a male interior designer wasn’t like the top choice for a sixth grader. It was a lawyer, a professional basketball player, a police officer. So I erased it and I wrote architect. But still, you know, in the same field with maybe just more of a different tone to it. But then I kind of put that aside for a little bit. And then I really fell in love with the business side of things. So my first degree. I went to school for business, business management and marketing. And then I worked for a few years afterwards. And I was doing a lot of really exciting jobs and I was working for a promotions company. And so that time right out of school, it was, was a lot of fun. I was doing different events at clubs and really trying to promote mixed martial arts, which is when that kind of first came. big in the scene and then worked in sales, worked in business development and just really didn’t feel full at the end of the day. so I had heard about a design company, I’m from Pittsburgh originally, and there was a company in Shadyside, which is a nice area, and I just walked into the firm and basically asked for an unpaid internship. And I was like, Hi, I’m here, I’d like to work here. And they’re like, well, what do you know? And I’m nothing. I don’t know anything. I’m happy to sweep the floors, go grab the coffee, do whatever you need me to do, but just want to be in this environment, kind of experience this industry, and see if it’s a go before I decide to go back to school for it. So I worked there, quit my jobs, worked there for three months, unpaid internship. And then I enrolled in school in the fall in a master’s program, which I loved the program because it was a master of interior architecture. So it was really the next step. It was a two year program. I was really looking for obviously a better degree and the fastest path to get me to where I wanted to be. Wow. Who knew? And look how well that served you because having that business development experience and the marketing and promotion and all of those different things, you had to be in business for yourself because really you have both sides that you’re able to use, Yeah. Well, so how did you end up getting to us? How did this all come about? for sure. So I had, so Fast Track, Pittsburgh School, graduated, moved to Florida. I worked for two firms and the firm I was working for previously to starting my own, was summer of 2021. after, it was the first High Point Market after everything really reopened and my previous boss and I were at High Point and we were, you know, it’s always it’s always exciting to see the new furniture and visit the showrooms and things but we had never really been to any talks or speaker series. And so we got, you know, I think it was the first day we got there, we had we got the brochure and we saw your name on there and we didn’t know you. We didn’t know anything about you. We just we really liked the topic. And we thought, hey, let’s check this out. And we were working with a business coach at the time. But it was more of a it was a business coach that was generalized. So they really kind of helped all industries. And it was one of those moments where we sat in your presentation. And it was like the stars aligned, like we just we were like, she knows what she’s talking about. And we and she can help us. And that was that was it. And then you sat you came and sat with us. You were swarmed with people. It was really like a celebrity, I felt like there were paparazzi and all these people around you, like you were leaving this event and you immediately came up to us and were so welcoming to us and we sat with you for lunch and there were so many people like, Gail, Gail, and you’re just like, hold on, I’m having a conversation and you gave us all the attention that we needed and you know, just, was, we were like, she’s our girl, she’s gonna help us. Well, and it was really interesting. and one of the things that I love is working with a leadership team and the three of you at that time were basically the leadership team for that company. And, it just really was, I don’t know. I think I just knew that I needed to help you all. And I think you had some really big challenges and for sure you did and you helped, helped her. Yeah. really get through a lot of those, let’s talk about some of those. What were some of the biggest ones she had in her business? I think because we were a small firm at the time, but then we were growing so rapidly with the amount of projects that we were taking on. I think just from the start, it was really like organizational leadership and growing, you know, my experience coming from the business world and kind of working with structure and organizational charts and, and then going to a small design firm where there’s three people doing everything. we’re all having to wear all the hats, regardless of, you know, position and who’s who. And then we start building the team and we went from like three people to 10 people overnight and like 10 projects to 42 projects. And so I think building kind of stepping back, looking at the vision for the company, her vision, and being able to relay the foundation, the foundation was already there. I mean, she was in business for 25 or 30 years and had built a really successful business. But I think just being able to kind of step back, lay another layer of foundation on everything and build from there to be able to create more success for her and more of what she was looking for with her company. Well, and I think one of the things that was really interesting is watching you grow in your role there because you grew into, we talked about you being design director. So that meant you took on a lot more responsibilities and managing people and managing the projects as well. And just really getting into what it would take to run the company. You were starting to get a good feel for that with that position. So talk about that a little bit. Yeah, it was definitely a because I think at that point I had only been there for three years. I started off as really kind of like an interior. mean, I was a licensed interior designer at the time, but started off really assisting projects. And then I was able to bring in a large project that took all of my attention away from. Fast Track. being able to assist and that’s where we decided we needed to grow the team. And then from there, as then we had a team and then it was like, okay, well, what do we do with all these people? And then there I was. then it was this, went from interior designer, senior designer to design director all within those three years. But I could handle it. And that was, think, where you saw the potential in that and where she saw, you know, the potential and capacity to be able to do that and, you know, and help the team in that way. But it’s a different, you know, you’re moving so quickly and it’s learning to pivot and learning to change your mindset as you move through these different things. Because as design director, I’m not really doing mu

This week on the Creative Genius podcast, Gail Doby welcomes Elissa Grayer, the founder of Elissa Grayer Interior Design, for a deep dive into her 25-year journey from educational administration to luxury interior design. Elissa shares how she “made it up as she went along” before finding the professional community and coaching that transformed her firm from a seat-of-the-pants operation into a highly profitable, well-oiled machine. Listen in as Elissa discusses the evolution of her firm’s structure and the “transition mode” she is currently navigating as she looks toward the next decade of her career. She defines the critical importance of financial transparency, revealing how her business achieved a dramatic bottom-line shift by gaining the confidence to charge her true worth and track every billable hour. The conversation also explores the unique challenges of serving ultra-high-net-worth clients who may be demanding or entitled, and how Elissa maintains boundaries while delivering an outstanding, sophisticated experience. Plus, Elissa shares her perspective on the current “stagnated” real estate market in the New York suburbs and why she is looking toward hospitality and senior living as exciting new frontiers for her firm. In this podcast, you’ll hear about: The Volvo Project: How Elissa’s career began by managing a major renovation for her former husband, earning her a resale certificate and her first referrals. The $800,000 Realization: A candid look at the financial impact of “making up” design fees before learning professional billing and forecasting methods. Succession and the Next 10 Years: The special attitude required for a second-in-command to become a potential successor and the shift toward in-house design leadership. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e6-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwHUiEthyuA Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Alisa. I want to talk with your personal story and start there and tell us how did you get into design? Well, it actually, I’m one of the ones who came to it very organically. I had been in education, had been teaching, and then was working on charter schools and decided, my then husband and I decided that we were going to combine two apartments on Riverside Drive in New York City. And so I was, taken some time off from work. I just had my second child and I decided to take on the project and I did. It was a total gut renovation. There was a lot of work. took about a year. I was very involved in the design, the layout, everything, and getting the job done, which as you know is really most of the job. And at the end of it, we had a beautiful apartment, and it just felt really good and comfortable and warm and welcoming, and everybody loved it. I loved it. Shortly after, I got divorced. which was a very mutual thing. So we both were in a really good place about it with each other. We are still great friends. And he asked me if I would design and manage the joining of two apartments for him, for him and the girls who were my girls. So of course I said, yes, this would be a great thing. I’d love to make a wonderful home for them and for him. And he said, okay, I’ll buy you Volvo. And I said, okay, done. I did. I designed and project managed and filled that apartment with beautiful things and it came out really, really well. And I had to get a resale certificate number to start buying things, so I had a resale number. And then the electrician on the job said to me, I have a client who’s down in the village and she can’t make up her mind about something, would you come and help her? someone else said, I heard you might be doing interior design, would you come and help me? And it just sort of snowballed like that. So I had no idea what I was doing, but I just knew I loved what I was doing. And then I decided to go to school to see if that would help. So I went to Parsons for a certificate in interior design. I already had a couple of master’s degrees. I didn’t want any more. And I just… just was working. started working and I never stopped and that was 24 years ago. It be 25 years in February. So what were your other degrees? I didn’t know that. Well, I had a degree in administration planning and social policy from the Harvard Ed School. Then I had a degree in elementary education and master’s from Leslie College, Graduate School of Education. And then I was ABD, which means everything but the dissertation at Columbia. I was getting a degree in educational administration at Columbia Teachers College. So that was… A lot of schooling, I’m a big believer in school, but I just didn’t want to do anymore. So there’s a lot of stuff I did not learn and a lot of stuff you can only learn on the job. So it’s kind of a toss up. I miss not having worked for someone. I know that that’s an amazing experience and I always lamented the fact that I never had a role model or anyone to just look at and say, that’s how you do things. So I just kind of made it up as I went along. I hate to say it, but one of the people would probably not be good role models on running the business. Yeah. So it’s in some ways, I think it’s better to figure it out for yourself, but. That’s true. Yeah, true. Maybe if you have a background in business, which as you know very well, I do not. I’m a liberal arts person through and through. So I know we’re going to get to this, but it really wasn’t until I met you that I started understanding the business part of the business. Before that, I was just flying by the seat of my pants. There was no internet world back then to go to. mean, now you can basically buy a business plan. on the internet for a couple hundred dollars and sign up for a coaching group. It just feels a lot more open and accessible than it did back then. When I would go to the market days at the New York Design Center and basically listen for crumbs of wisdom from one of the famous designers who were speaking and I’d try and figure out what they were doing. yeah, just had to figure it out. Well, tell us about your firm right now. Who’s on your team? What are their responsibilities? Well, we are in a transitioning mode. The ideal team is, and it’s not ideal right now, so that’s why I’m starting with the ideal. The ideal situation is to have a leadership team that is myself, my design director, who’s my number two, and then have an operations person as a third arm in the group. We do not have that person anymore. We had to make some staffing changes. So I now no longer have a real operations person. And what we have done is we have brought in a fractional CFO from outside to be kind of our financial advisory arm. We have brought in a bookkeeper, CPA, and we have an office admin right now. Mm-hmm. We’ve also brought in an outside marketing kind of AI focused consultant to help us with marketing and especially as it relates to the new changes with what AI is doing to our market and our SEOs. I’ve also got a consultant who’s working on our website and I have an outside tech support person. because the operations person that I previously had did a lot of those things, some better than others, but was really kind of responsible for a lot of that. So I have now created a team of different people to kind of partially, almost all the way make up for that third person. I also have a full-time designer in the office. I have a part-time designer who is in Boston who works remotely. We have an office admin person. And then I have two very fabulous interns who are coming in a couple days a week who do all those things like, you know, drop off this sample, pick up this product, know, do, you know, open the door for this vendor. So we have a lot of hands in the mix right Yeah, it sounds like quite a few. Yeah, it’s quite a crew, but it’s working. We’re making it work. We do need another designer, but we are we’ll get there. We’re just not. It’s hard to find a good person, as you know. Yeah, you have to your time with that and definitely wait for that right person. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, we are. So let’s go back to the past and this has been quite a while, probably seven, eight years ago that you started working with us somewhere in that neighborhood. What was going on with your business at that time? Why did you come or reach out to us? Yes. Uh-huh. Well, I had actually been following you from afar from, I don’t know, it must have been, when did you start doing those podcasts where people could call in? Was that like 20 years ago? I just got 18 years ago. Yeah. Uh-huh. Sure. I was at home. Actually, I think, probably don’t remember this, but I actually asked a question on one of those things and you said to me something like, very kindly, but like, think you need to get a coach to help you with some of this stuff. And I was like, yeah, you know what, you’re probably right. I had started, I’d done a year with a coach who’s still around. This was probably like 15 years ago and just wasn’t able to follow through, didn’t really get the information that I needed. And so just kept on plugging along until I went to a dinner in High Point. You know, you get invited to these dinners, these small intimate dinners, and I think this was a trad home dinner. And a woman sitting next to me was named Julia Kirkendall. And she, we were having this great conversation and she was telling me about her business. And I have a feeling that there’s one other person from that group there and I’m not remembering, because I was so focused on Julia. I just fell in love with her warmth and her honesty and her openness. And she was saying that she was running this great b

This week on the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby welcomes master photographer and luxury sales consultant Jeffrey Shaw to share the insider knowledge he gained from spending over 40 years serving the most affluent families in the US. Jeffrey shares that everything he teaches comes from intimate conversations with this clientele, where he noticed a division between what luxury brands market and what clients actually say. Listen in as Jeffrey reveals what truly prevents designers from stepping into the high-end market: their own fear of being uncomfortable or feeling like an imposter. He shares his personal journey of transitioning from an outsider studying high-end stores like Bergdorf Goodman to becoming a customer there. Jeffrey emphasizes that the worst mistake you can make is trying to be a fake version of yourself because affluent buyers will "smell that a million miles away". Jeffrey offers a masterclass on the psychology of luxury buying: he explains why they are not only looking for skill and integrity but are also highly intuitive and perceptive—a trait necessary for their success. He reveals the one thing they expect but will never ask for: that you stay a few steps ahead of them, doing their thinking on their behalf. Finally, Jeffrey provides practical advice on up-leveling your ideal client profile, removing friction from your process, and motivating clients in turbulent economic times. Listen to the full episode to hear more about: The Power of Belonging: Jeffrey's personal mantra that belonging in any room is your individual choice, regardless of your background or socioeconomic status. The Silver Lining Audience: Why you must never fall into the mindset that nobody is spending money, and how to tap into the segment that is always doing well . Understanding Their Lingo: Why you must understand the language, visuals, and messaging of the clientele you want to attract before you build or change your brand. The Fear of Disappointment: How heightened emotions in uncertain times create an increased fear of disappointment, motivating clients to seek assuredness and consistency in their service providers. The Duality of the Affluent: Why the misconception that they are formal and stiff is wrong; they are often much more "real" and casual than expected. Why Referrals Stop: The surprising reasons affluent clients stop referring, including the fear that you will make a mistake for their friend or the reluctance to share their trusted resource. Removing Friction: Jeffrey shares his trick for using technology to make life easy for busy clients—even tracking client payment times to understand their lifestyle (the most common time they paid may surprise you!). Your Diamond Edge: The mistake of not being clear on why you chose this clientele beyond the money, and how finding your "diamond edge" provides the conviction needed to endure. If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e5-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBjCCXdSuno Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Jeffrey. I'm so glad to have you here and spend time with you again. And by the way, I have to share you are one of our favorite speakers that are one of our recent boardroom retreats. And I just really valued that time that you shared with our people and they loved, loved, loved what you had to say. So we're going to talk about your book and it's Sell to the Rich, which is so appropriate for our industry. Thank you. It is, is. Thank you. I had such a great time with your group too and honestly I said probably that day and I've said many times since, hanging out with designers is such a complete joy to me because who doesn't love hanging out with hardworking people who have good taste? Well, you have good taste. Yes, and you are in very much the visual business anyway, or at least you were serving people as a photographer. But I want to talk about how you started with this and how you learned so much about the luxury market. Sure. Yeah, a really crazy journey, right? I mean, the fact that I had the opportunity as a family portrait photographer for many of the most affluent families in the US for more than 40 years, just crazy. I didn't come from that background at all, but I was very, very clear after a few years of struggle, it was very clear to me that these are the people I was meant to serve. And that's such an inner feeling, right? I mean, how you get to that point of realizing that, you know, who you're meant to serve and… to realize it wasn't a world I knew. So, I mean, I am forever grateful for the fact I was able to break into this very challenging market and then spend 40 years literally hanging out in their closets, right? So everything I teach today, talk about, write about, is always going back to those intimate conversations with an affluent clientele that I often found. how luxury brands were marketing, how they were speaking, how they were showing up in the lives of these clients was very different than what I was hearing from the clients. And that was, that's the valuable contrast because I was getting, felt the real them, which really on their mind and realizing the division between when you're affluent, you're such a target of marketing and your experience, those moments in the closet, their real lives were very different. And so everything I know today about luxury came from those moments of intimacy and getting to hear, you know, really being embedded and nothing is more personal to people than their children. So, you the lives I had in photographing their kids and their families really opened up very intimate conversations. And I felt like I got to see an inside perspective that quite frankly, most people in the luxury business do not. That's amazing. What do you think keeps people from approaching and serving the luxury market and maybe feeling like they are not imposters, that they should be able to serve these people? And what I love about that question, Gail, is that actually I really woke up to that at your event at Pearl Collective because I doubt you recall, but there were a number of questions from the audience right in the moment, as well as people that came up to me afterwards and a very common question, so much so that I ended up writing a newsletter about it. And the question was to me, how did you get comfortable working with a clientele in a world you didn't grow up in? Mm-hmm. So I realized what's keeping most people from stepping into the world of self-serving a high-end client is probably their own fear of being comfortable. Their belief that they won't be comfortable because they didn't come from that world. But here's a newsflash. 99.9 % of people serving luxury buyers didn't come up and grow up in that world, right? If you did, you're probably not a sales associate at Dior, right? I mean, it's just the reality of it. who are serving this clientele. And that's not to say that, and hopefully it's true, that in the years of serving this clientele that we actually step into that market. You one of my favorite stories to tell, which is very foundational to my work, is that as a startup photographer in my 20s, and not knowing this clientele before, in the process of rebranding who I would become to serve this clientele. I spent a lot of time at high end stores in New York City and my favorite one was Bergdorf Goodman. I felt like a fish out of water going to Bergdorf Goodman. I knew it wasn't the world I was from, but I went there to understand the world of the people I was going to serve. I can say today, I mean, without, you know, just to make the point and not to brag at all, but you know, to see your life transition from being an outsider going to Bergdorf Goodman to learn. to years later and not that many years later becoming a customer of Bergdorf Goodman and now decades later I'm an ongoing customer of Bergdorf Goodman and have a personal shopper there. So that transition to me is not to brag but it's to represent the journey. So no, wasn't, I think what holds most people back is they believe they're not comfortable or going to be comfortable serving this clientele. You just have to be yourself. Mm-hmm. The worst thing you can do is being an imposter. The worst thing you can do is put on a facade, because they will smell that a million miles away. They're not interested in a fake version of you. I never tried to hide where I came from. It was irrelevant. I was there to do a job, and I was there to do it well. And to me, comfortable is about belonging. And belonging is your individual choice. Mm. I believe we all should decide that we belong by birth by birthright we belong in any room we choose to be with regardless of where we came from or are you know any any other circumstances we have a right to decide we belong in any room regardless of gender race sexual orientation whatever it might be a social economic status you deserve to belong in any room you choose to be in well so It's an internal feeling. I feel like even at my early 20s, I had this feeling like I don't know what it is. I don't know what it's gonna look like, but I belong here. I'm just going to make myself comfortable. And then as you do, it becomes a very positive cycle of as you get more and more comfortable, you get elevated and elevated. Next thing you know, you're a customer at the very same store that you used to go to to study. I love that. And I think that you could not have said that better because today I think a lot of people do exactly what you said. They may try to be somebody that they're not. They need to be authentic to who they are and really care about the person that they're serving instead of trying t

This week on the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby sits down with global advisor and strategist Kiri-Maree Moore, Founder and CEO of Decision Velocity Global. Kiri-Maree shares her powerful journey from initially resisting the label of "leader" to realizing the responsibility of leading others. She defines her mission: curating spaces where humans have a greater voice and helping leaders align their decisions with long-term success. Listen in as Kiri-Maree discusses the biggest mistakes leaders make, often by failing to set a strong "GPS" or exhibiting a lack of ownership. She recounts the life-changing lesson she learned from Sir Richard Branson—whom she sees as a mentor—about thinking bigger and understanding the value of surrounding yourself with the right people. Kiri-Maree introduces her concept of Return on Decision—measuring decisions to ensure they are moving the business toward its goals, not away from them. The conversation dives deep into the difference between management (dictatorship within a broken, static construct) and leadership (mentoring and empowering others to shine their light). Kiri-Maree also explains her fascination with patterns and the crucial need to exercise the muscle of human intelligence to achieve peak performance, accelerate cultural impact, and gain a measurable ROD. Plus, hear the following discussions: Embrace New Approaches: We must adopt new approaches to leadership to change ineffective patterns and create new pathways to success. Exercise the Muscle of Human Intelligence (HI): Learning to exercise this muscle—gaining certainty in your truths and making smarter decisions—is the key to increasing peak performance and cultural impact. Demand a Measurable Return on Decision: Every decision, big or small, must be tracked to ensure it is adding to the mission, driving speed, curating capacity, and optimizing time and energy. If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e4-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KryM5LUpLo&pp=0gcJCSgKAYcqIYzv Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Keri Marie. It is so great to have you here. I've only known you for 11 years when I met your husband. I met you at a retreat out in California, which was just wonderful. And actually back in the corral again with you all. But I am very excited to talk to you about leadership today. what a great topic. Let's get into it. And I'm so excited to be here. So thank you, Gail. It's our pleasure. So I think leadership starts, quite frankly, when you are a mom, don't you think? think anytime you make a decision and you've got people following you, I think that's where leadership starts. And if you're a mom, then that's definitely a place in which it can start. I think for me, I mean, way before I was a mom, I was a leader in leading other people and taking them on a journey. And when did you start realizing that that's what you were, a leader? Here's the funny thing, and I think this is always funny when we talk about leadership. For a long time I did not want to think about leadership and being my name sort of being put into that pot as well. And the reason being is that I realized I didn't really like leadership as a thought, as being a leader. What is a leader and what does that need to look like? It didn't really look like a lot of fun and it definitely didn't look like lots of good things happening there. I just served other humans and I just did that and people would go, you're such a great leader. I can see leadership on your life. And it sort of always was this word that followed with me rather than I went, I see myself as a leader. I just love serving other humans and helping to see that together we bring change. And I think there was never ever a moment that I went, I'm a leader. There was a moment I walked away from leadership and said I don't want to be involved in leadership and I had to come back and really own my place in leadership. But I don't remember ever a moment saying, hey, all of a sudden I'm a leader. Was there some sort of a shift or something that happened that all of a sudden you said, my gosh, I am just fascinated with this topic. Yeah, I think what happened was, and you know me in the business world, I have always been fascinated with growth in the business world, but the thing that I saw that was not happening in the business world was leadership within it. I saw people wanting to build businesses, wanting to build companies, organizations, but they were ignoring this big thing called leadership. And I realized that was something that I was very passionate about. to see that we do way better and more effectively. And it was that that I went, am I gonna take up that mentor and go, yes, I'm gonna walk in and really own in the leadership space, am I seat at the table or am I just gonna complain that I don't like where leadership is going? And I felt there was a responsibility once I had that moment to go, I'm gonna own this. I'm gonna really see what it is I don't like, see what it is I love, and do more of that. Well, you're the founder and CEO of Decision Velocity Global, and I'd love to know a little bit more about your mission and your vision of that. Thank you. I think the interesting part of it was I built originally what it looked like just like everyone else and meaning that it was a nice little business and kind of consulting in that way and realized that there was something else that I was doing but I wasn't bringing it in my organization. And so I went back to the drawing board and we have evolved a lot in the last little while and I'm so excited at what we're bringing out and what that looks like. But really it went back to, like you said, what is the mission? What is the drive behind it? And reality was, I created what I did because I wanted to see how can we help curate spaces in which humans really can have a greater voice. I was one of those kids that grew up that didn't have a voice. I was in leadership. or under leadership that used it in the wrong way. I've been that person that has not had the seat at the table, pushed away, not looked like everyone else. And I realized that I wanted to curate spaces that everyone has the permission to be at the table. But how can we do that better? And what is that value that we bring? And if I can help people through looking at decisions. and looking at the way in which we make them and do that more aligned with actually the long-term success of where you want to go, then that's been a great day and that's what we do in all that we look at, we work through and we create in Decision Velocity Global. Great. Well, what are some of the things that you have seen as maybe the biggest mistakes that people make in trying to become a leader? my gosh, where do we start with that? Right? And I think, you know, it's funny because it's like, what is that mission? And I think, you know, with anything, it's like, if you think about that, you asked me that with the decision velocity global, and there's so many pieces to what I do and how I do it. literally we could spend hours and hours on what the mission is. And I think that's the difference between someone that knows that this is where we are heading. And I always talk about setting your GPS to where you wanna go. And for me, that's your global platform shift, right? Like what is that that you wanna stand for? What is that that you wanna head towards? What is that that you will get up every day and build whatever that is that you're doing to be able to create, you know, curate the spaces to serve other humans and do it well. And I think that is one thing that I don't see well done in leadership is people setting that GPS. You see, depending what the economic landscape's doing, it changes, or depending what the next trend is, or, my goodness, now everyone is canceling us, we better not say this, let's change that. That direction of what people are setting keeps shifting and it gets diluted, it goes into chaos and… I think that's one of the biggest issues is that we are not setting it to where we know that's what, and everyone's individual to what that is and how you wanna play in that way, but we're not standing strong on what that is. And then when we are setting it, we're not in leadership, we're not standing strong on what that is that you're willing to stand strong no matter what. We need leadership to take ownership. And I'm seeing this less and less and less. And I get it. It's a scary world sometimes. It's hard. You have to, you know, I don't know how kosher you are here, but like grow some balls is what I would say. Like you literally have to sometimes get back up and have this resilience that others don't realize. it takes to stand strong today in leadership. And honestly, I don't see a lot of that when, when, when the going gets tough, when it's, when the challenges are hitting us. And there's a lot of that. And reality is we have to build our leadership and what we're willing to stand for in leadership, knowing that we are in this volatile world that can, can rock us. But what does that mean and how will you still stand and what will you, you know, I hear a lot of people talking about brand right now because people are realizing that you can't just build around what was, what used to happen and how everyone used to build it out. And people are going, you need to build your brand. No, people, we need to build what it is we're going for and we need to build what we're standing for and we need to create. solutions and why this is so important to help others to come on that journey with us. And I think if that's the sort of the things that are not working is we're n

This week on the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby sits down with Margaret Donaldson, founder of Margaret Donaldson Interiors (MDI), and Courtney Heffron, MDI’s CFO, for an incredibly candid conversation. Margaret shares the story of starting her business 36 years ago and how, after running it "from the gut" for decades, she realized the firm's growth—especially during COVID—had made the business bigger than her. Listen in as Margaret opens up about the difficult, but necessary, journey of shifting her mindset from boss to leader. She shares what prompted her to seek coaching—the need for an exit strategy and a desire to ensure MDI’s legacy and protect her employees. Courtney provides expert insight on when a design firm should hire a CFO and the strategic value that high-level financial expertise brings to decision-making. Margaret and Courtney reveal how embracing a leadership team and committing to a cultural pivot—moving from a control culture to a collaborative culture—required making hard choices, but resulted in massive growth, including a doubling of their net profit. This episode is a must-listen for any firm owner looking to build an A-plus team, invest in intentional growth, and create a "well-oiled machine" that can thrive beyond its founder. In this episode, you'll learn: Margaret’s "divorce" from her original family business partnership that pushed her to start MDI. How a chance meeting (and a retiring bookkeeper) brought Courtney, with her public accounting and auditing background, into the role of MDI’s CFO. The surprising, quick results they achieved once Margaret stopped resisting and fully committed to the coaching process. The challenges of emotionally separating the business entity from Margaret's personal identity to enhance business development. Margaret’s new skill of pausing and listening more before speaking, including a funny example of changing the "hit by the bus" scenario. Margaret’s creative business development secret: chasing every lead and following up with past satisfied clients—even if it means a surprise flight. Courtney’s perspective on overcoming imposter syndrome and the necessity of trial-and-error in business growth. Their strategy for building an A-plus team using the "ideal team player" framework, focusing on candidates who are humble, hungry, and smart. If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e3-shownotes Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Welcome to the created genius podcast, Margaret and Courtney. It's always a pleasure to work with you too. And I'm just excited to have you on the podcast today. You are absolutely one of my favorite clients because you are so coachable and is one of the things that has made it such a delight to work with you all and to see you progress over this last year and a half. And it's hard to believe it's just been a year and a half, but let's start with how you got into business. Margaret, what was your goal when you started? Sure. Well, thank you for having us. It's quite an honor. I appreciate that. So the goal when I started my business, it just sort of happened. was in design school in college. And then when I got out of college, I worked for an established designer for a few years. And then I formed a partnership with my aunt and she had a successful furniture store. And after several years there, I felt the need to break free of the restraints of her business model so that my design work could expand. And unfortunately, we kind of had a divorce, which was very hard since it was family. And it was the right thing to do, though. I was a little bit in a box where I was. And I officially started my business three weeks before my first child was born. And that's when I started Margaret Donaldson interiors. Gosh, and you've been in business for how long now? think it's 36 years, 36 years as Margaret Donaldson interiors. you know, I had I worked for someone else and then with my aunt for several years before that. I don't want people to know how old I am. So wow. They don't have to know. No problem. Well, it's so interesting and it's so interesting also that, and I'm going to go a little bit off of some of the questions I had for you, but I was thinking about for you to come to me at the point of your business that you did, it was really an interesting time to choose to do that because you've been running your business for a very, very long time. Right. But the business really got it got bigger than me and I realized I needed help. So I found Pearl at just the right time. It's been great. Well, let's start with also with how you two started working together and Courtney, share what you do with MDI. Yeah, so before joining MDI, I worked in public accounting as an auditor for several years, which gave me a good foundation and exposure to a lot of different businesses. And I actually got connected to Margaret through her son's friend who I used to work with. this was around COVID and I was wanting a career change. And when I heard about the opportunity, I felt like it would be the perfect fit. It was honestly like a dream job for me. I've always loved interior design. even wanted to be a designer when I was younger, but I quickly realized that I don't have that creative side and my strengths are definitely better suited on the business and financial side. So this role gave me really the best of both worlds where I get to be part of the creative industry that I genuinely love while focusing on the financial and operational side that I'm passionate about. I was initially hired as the controller and then that developed into the CFO role that I'm currently in. When I first joined MDI, we had a really smaller bookkeeping setup. And so my goal was to modernize and streamline things. During that time, we transitioned from QuickBooks to Studio Designer, moved everything digital, and that has really completely transformed how we manage the business. And so now today, my role touches on a little bit of everything from strategic planning, decision making, financial management and forecasting to client relations, new business opportunities. And then I also oversee the accounting, course, payroll, employee benefits, taxes, and et cetera. Essentially just helping ensure the business runs smoothly and continues to grow. She has a really big job. This is very big job. You're a big company in our industry. And so for the level of work that you do, and maybe we should throw in here how many people you have on your team. Maybe you check. You do. But Courtney and I've been sort of back and forth on this, but we have decided that we have including myself. We are at 19 employees, full time employees. And then we have four 1099 contractors that we use in various capacities. So I guess we're. Somewhere around 23. Sometimes it's clearer than you think, and especially since it grew so organically for you. It's interesting how all of a sudden you end up running a big team and you never anticipated that you're going to do that. Exactly, it just happened and that's when I knew I needed help. It was kind of like the perfect storm when COVID happened, business was booming actually for the interior design industry. And that's around the time that I came on. And I felt like the growth really did happen very organically. And we just, as business was coming in, we made it work, hired more and improved the business as much as we could. And so it was actually during COVID that brought me to Courtney because we stayed home for six weeks. And then when I called everyone back to the office at that point, my bookkeeper, who had been with me for 22 years, decided that she didn't want to come back and it was time for her to retire. So that very Friday, I was sitting on my dock with my son. and his friend, and I was just lamenting the fact that I don't have a bookkeeper anymore, she's leaving. And this is when my son's friend was like, I might know somebody, and he starts texting, and that's how it all came to be. So things happen for a reason. They do happen for a reason. I believe that. In fact, every time I've wanted to hire somebody, I just think about it and I start talking about it and I put a job description together and the person shows up. It's so funny that it works that way. So I'm not surprised that worked for you. So I guess a question I have for you, Courtney, is when does it make sense to add somebody with your level of knowledge? Because not all firms hire a CFO. Yeah. And of course you're a larger firm, so to me that makes sense, but is there a particular time or a particular incident? I think it really depends on a few factors, mainly the size and complexity of the business, especially as your firm grows, you have more projects, more employees, there's more moving parts. I like the accounting side naturally becomes more involved at that point. And so that's usually when it makes more sense to bring someone in with higher level financial experience in house. Then once you also start doing more large scale projects, I think it's crucial to have strong and efficient processes and procedures in place. And having someone who really understands both the business side and the numbers really helps you streamline operations and then make smarter decisions in the end. And I think eventually too, as you're starting to think about the future, whether that's scaling, succession planning, or even your eventual exit strategy, I think it's incredibly valuable to have someone who can confidently navigate those conversations and you know, speak the same language as your CPA attorney, financial advisor. So yeah. Yeah, well, and I think too, it's really important as you'

Running a thriving design firm is often described as one of the hardest jobs out there. If that's true, how does a successful designer not only manage the chaos but scale a business to attract the top one percent of clients and win industry awards? This week on the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby welcomes Stephanie Kraus, founder of Stephanie Kraus Designs, to share her remarkable story of transforming from a national magazine publisher to the head of an award-winning interior design firm. Stephanie reveals how she leveraged her original career's organizational expertise to build a design business with consistent waitlists, making it one of the hardest—yet most rewarding—jobs she's ever undertaken. Listen in as Stephanie discusses the evolution of her firm, which shifted its focus to handling full home gut renovations and custom homes while navigating the unpredictable challenges of the industry. She defines what it means to be a "fierce" but caring businesswoman, and explains how her philosophy of being a fast action taker ensures her employees feel protected and the business runs smoothly enough to scale. In this episode, you'll learn: The key strategies Stephanie uses to attract and retain the top one percent of clients, often leading to multiple projects from the same high-level families. How her firm strategically uses AI tools like Midjourney to improve client visualization. Why her flexible, hybrid studio model is key to attracting top design talent. Three powerful, actionable takeaways for designers looking to grow their firms and achieve success. If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e2-shownotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTaUo9OzC98 Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Stephanie. First, I'd love to start with your personal story. How did you get into design? Well, thank you, Gail. It's great to be here. Great to see you again and hear your voice. Okay, I started my business about 13 years ago. And prior to that, I was a publisher for a magazine and in the medical field. So absolutely nothing to do with design at the time, but I've always loved design, fashion, style. I think it's just in my DNA. So back in 2013, I don't know if you remember this, but design blogs were the thing. And I devoured them while I was at home with my kids when my children were little. Because when I had my first child, I actually had to stop working as a publisher. Because when you're a publisher for a magazine that's national, you need to travel. So I had to take a break from that. because both myself and my husband were traveling nonstop and something had to give. So it's sad to give up that part of my career, but it actually opened the door to another part of my life and a new career. When the kids were little, I did always know I wanted to go back to work and wanted to run my own business. publishing, believe it or not, was like running your own many company so i learned a lot about leadership and operations and i did want to open something for myself i felt like i definitely had that entrepreneurial bug and i combined that with my love and passion for design and i started my own company stephanie cross designs into the thousand thirteen specifically focusing on you know small projects and residential design And how I started was I started decorating my own home and started writing my own design blog, obviously with publishing as a background. I really liked to write and I thought I was pretty talented in that area. So I wrote my design blog, did my own house, and then things just took off. My first clients were friends and family, and then word of mouth spread and I haven't stopped since. Busy and have had wait lists since the day we opened. That is amazing. So what was your original vision for the business? In the beginning, before I had any grand plans, I just wanted to run an organized company that had processes and procedures in place, just as when I was a publisher, we had a very organized process. And what I wanted to bring into it was more of the creative side and a creative aspect that helps people live beautifully and comfortably. I never imagined it would grow into what it is now, but I feel like doing consistently good work, caring deeply for my clients, being an ambassador for them, and actually a translator for them among the team that they work with when they're building a house and designing a house for acting as a translator between the builders and architects and trades so that the client's vision can be translated into their dream home with the whole team behind them. And has your vision changed? 12 years is not a terribly long period of time, but I have a feeling things have changed because obviously you got into this business coming from the publishing world and then you start this and it's been very successful. So what has changed over time? When I first started the projects were a little smaller. Sometimes it was just furniture and other times it was a small gut renovation or you know kitchen renovation, bath renovation and the vision of the company now is we are focused mainly on full home, full home gut renovations and our whole focus is our clients working with clients who are family centered to create custom homes from concept to completion. And we feel like we're really lucky to collaborate with incredibly talented architects and builders who help us translate each client's dream into reality. Again, my vision for the company today is really concept to completion, helping a client. reach their dream home through not only beautiful aesthetics, but how they circulate and work through their home and flow through their home now and many years from now. We always like to take into consideration what stage they're in in life. No small kids. How does that translate from small children to teenage years, to college years, to when they have grandkids and also encompass all of the family events that take place in these homes and create a beautiful backdrop for our clients. That's great. Well, what are some of the biggest surprises along the way in running a design business? Because it's totally different than publishing, I would think. designing, running an interior design firm and being an interior designer is probably the hardest job I've ever had. I think it's the most detailed job and there are so many things that are out of our control. So I've worked in the publishing and the medical field and this is by far the hardest. The only thing we do control is our creativity and how we show up. So it took years to build a reliable team of vendors and trades, but once you have them, it's gold. But it's really hard not controlling the timing of the furniture, the damages that come with the furniture, the kitchen cabinetry that we designed, but we didn't create, we didn't fabricate. All of the things that encompass an interior design project that we rely on other people to fabricate, make, install to give the final product. And not having control over every aspect of that is very difficult. But what I've learned over the years is it's really important to work with trusted architects, trusted trades, and trusted builders. So we've been really lucky. That's great. Well, and I would describe you as a fierce businesswoman. Have you always been that way? I think so. Once I'm comfortable in a role or in a space, yes, I think I just like to set a goal and meet it. And you can't know everything. So if I'm uncomfortable in a role, if I don't know anything, I just lean in, keep learning, stay transparent with our clients and just do my best. Fierce doesn't mean loud. It just means consistent, fair, decisive, and caring. I think that's a great definition for fears and I think fierce is a good thing to go for. So and it's a great model that you have. One of the things I noticed when we were at boardroom retreat just a few weeks ago, I watched you do something really interesting and it tells me a little bit about your work style. We had everybody take an assessment for their business and it was pretty long. And during this time you were. you were answering the questions, but you were also executing actions. And you told me about this later. And I thought, wow, that's really fascinating. Because who would have thought that somebody would just immediately say, OK, well, I need to get into action on this and start executing in the middle of doing an assessment. So that is talking about fast action taking. Is that how you work normally? Yes, and I think that's instinctive for me. I think that just comes naturally. I've always taken action. Trust me, I do procrastinate with things like unpacking my suitcase and doing laundry. But for achieving a goal, making sure that my company, my team, my employees are taken care of, that I just do my best to try to take action. And in particular, I think what we were working on was insurance, you know, is my insurance up to date? Is my contract in place? Because those are the kinds of things that not only are really important to running a successful business, but also keep your employees feeling safe, make them feeling comfortable. I want them to feel when they come into their office every day that I'm protecting them, making sure that they have a job in you know, for many years to come, if you don't feel safe, if you don't feel comfortable, then, you know, how can you do your job effectively? Kind of interesting. I didn't even realize I was doing it. But if something needs doing, I just do it, handle it. Yeah. And I think that's what I was doing was I was emailing my insurance agent mid meeting just to review our policy....

This week on the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby sits down with design power couple Dwayne Bergmann and Kyle Barrett to share their incredible, serendipitous love story, their unconventional paths to success in the design industry, and how they’ve partnered to build multiple successful businesses and a unique product line. Dwayne, the founder of Dwayne Bergmann Interiors, and Kyle, who previously ran his own successful design firm and is a licensed realtor, discuss the unexpected way they met in New Orleans, their diverse backgrounds—from decorating cakes and selling eggs as kids on ranches—to running a multi-million dollar organization with nearly 50 employees. They also dive deep into the inspiration and unique offerings of their joint product venture, Barrett Bergmann Home. Dwayne and Kyle shared the story of how a change in Dwayne's travel schedule led to their serendipitous meeting and first late-night conversation at a wedding reception in New Orleans. They detailed their separate, yet similarly organic, entries into the design world: Dwayne started by decorating cakes as a child, then renovating and selling his own homes, which led to a feature in Gulf Shore Life magazine and the founding of Dwayne Bergmann Interiors. The couple also discussed how their shared past of growing up on ranches has recently influenced Dwayne's creative work. They highlighted their successful joint venture, Barrett Bergmann Home, which features a line of unique, story-driven products like luxury bedding, fragrances, and a vanity program that allows designers to co-brand. Finally, Dwayne explained his strategic decision to grow his design business by acquiring Freestyle Interiors, a move that doubled his firm's size and created time for him to focus on product development. Gail, Dwayne, and Kyle also discussed: Dwayne's first wedding cake design. Kyle's many businesses that he had when he started his firm. Dwayne's renovation of his largest personal project. Dwayne's adventure pulling his own permits. The ups and downs of the acquisition process. If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14-e1-shownotes https://youtu.be/nux9m79jzXE Episode Transcript Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors. Click to show transcript Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Wayne and Kyle. I am so excited to have you here and we've gotten a chance to get to know each other over the last year or so. And you've told me this wonderful personal story about how you two met and I'd love for you to share that. Dwayne, I'll you take the lead. Sure. So I do think there is something serendipitous about the way that we met. Neither of us were looking for, I think, a long term relationship. I had come out of a very difficult divorce and Kyle was at the end of a four five year relationship himself. maybe not the best of times when you were looking at it going, okay, I'm ready to meet the person that I wanna be with the rest of my life. So just kind of behind the scenes that was individually happening. But on the serendipitous part, I was working in a project in New Orleans that I had been, it was a two year project and I was in month 18. of the project and I literally flew in once a month on a Tuesday same flight in the afternoon would get in land go check the project out quickly work all day Wednesday and take an early evening flight out of things like a six six o'clock flight on Wednesday. I always stayed at the same hotel. It was just like clockwork we just did this every month so this particular trip. My operations manager said, I don't know what is going on in New Orleans. I can't get you in anywhere. I can't get you on a flight. So you're going to fly in on a Thursday evening. You're going to work all day Friday. Like you're going to get in really late Thursday. So you're not going to go to the project Thursday. You're going to work all day Friday and you're going to fly back on a 6 a.m. flight on Saturday because I can't get you out any other time. OK, I mean, it is what it is. like an oh by the way you're staying at a completely different hotel on a different part of town because that's completely was like thirty five hundred dollars a night or something it was ridiculous so okay it is what it is so I fly in wait Friday morning waiting for my car to arrive and I'm outside of this hotel and Kyle comes up and I was just starting to make small talk you know what brings you to New Orleans. Because no, I've been in New Orleans enough at this point. Like no one is, it's very transient. No one is just there visiting. Usually they're doing something and usually it's a convention or whatever. But he said, oh, I'm here working. said, oh, me too. You know, what do you do? And he said, oh, I'm here for an event that I'm working on. And I said, well, I'm a designer. working. He's like, oh, well, I have a design firm as well. And so we just chit chatted for a little bit and I handed him my card and said, If you're around later and like to get a drink, if I get back, I don't fly out until tomorrow morning. Would love to hear about a little bit more about what you do and where you're from and all that good stuff. he said, well, the event is a wedding that I'm doing for a really good friend of mine. And the wedding is this evening. So I doubt that I can meet you. It's going to be a busy day. But why don't you text me? Here's my number. Why don't you text me or give me a call around 10 o'clock tonight and I'll know, you know, what, what, you know, if I'm going to be, if I'm going to be back at the hotel and we can, you know, maybe be late, late at the bar. So I text him at 10 and he said, I'm still at the reception. Why don't you come over? And I was like, hell no. I am not crashing a wedding, period. That is not my style. One, I'm not dressed for a wedding. Two, I can't imagine crashing a wedding. And three, I know no one there and I don't know you. Like the other part was like, this is a kind of a risk. I just met you on the street, literally, this morning. That's true, that I want to go to a wedding venue. reception it wasn't the actual wedding so that was reception. So he convinced me to go. I ubered over to this venue and walk in and we talked for just a few minutes and he introduced me to the people that he was working with and then he said, hey, let's go. Why don't we sit over there? There's a quiet corner. And we literally went off to this corner at the reception and sat at this table. And this is probably 1045 at this point. And around, I mean, we just started talking like this just nonstop back and forth. no, think we both lost track of time. And one of his workers came over and just ask a couple of questions. And she came back and he said, my goodness, we we've got it. We've got to go. I've got to help them get all of this torn down. We had been talking so directly and were so just engrossed with each other and the conversation they had completely. torn down the entire reception, had everything packed and it was two o'clock in the morning. And she's like, no, everything is done. We just need to tell you that it's time to go. We all need to leave. Everything is packed up. So he drove me back to the hotel, said good night. He went on his way and kind of left it at, okay, you're in Texas, I'm in Florida, kids, you have businesses, I have businesses. Let's try to… You we'll try to keep in touch, but it was one of the things it's like you're really cool. I don't know how this would ever work. next morning. I did. So I had so I didn't really sleep. I had to get up at four. So I was you know, I sort of like got my stuff together and the airport so on the on the flight I was like at six maybe he did sleep so I texted him you know it was really nice meeting you and safe travels on your way back to Texas today and he started texting and we never stopped. That's so cool. And how many years ago was that? Going on, it'll be four in literally seven days. Oh wow. Well, congratulations. Thank you. And I'm glad that you just reminded me that it will be, it's four days. I just made a calendar mark on that. It's crazy. It's been with our work, but it is funny. Let me, let me tell you one thing, Gail, that you already know about Dwayne Bergman. When he ever says I wasn't dressed for something, he's not being honest. He looked like he had walked out of, as my grandmother would say, a Spiegel catalog. And, and when we met, had on, working this event, I had on a a cap and a dirty t-shirt with floral stains all over it, shorts and tennis shoes, and he was dressed to the nines. So don't let him fool you on that part. Yeah, we know all about his dressing style. that's a great story. Well, you both have had a really interesting journey. And I'm going to start with you, Kyle, about how you got into design. actually it was, it's very interesting how it all happened. Whenever I was, I was living in Dallas in my early twenties and, I had always had a, an interest in florals. I worked for TXU energy, in large commercial industrial side of customer service. But, I had a good friend that serviced a lot of very high end clients in Dallas, with their floral needs, would go in weekly or for, for parties and things like that. And I started helping on the side just because it was something I enjoyed doing when I was off work. And so that was kind of the start. I was also in Selam, a licensed realtor. And so one of the first houses that I did, I sold a large ranch home to some clients from Florida. And the lady looked at me she said, I don't know where to even start. to decorate this house. You know, I'm so excited to have it. I said, well, I'll help you. And so that's how I started. And then it just spread from there. And then,...