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"We're living in this collective illusion where the extremes are mischaracterizing who we are as a people." More than 70% of Americans — across every demographic — say their deepest aspiration is to contribute to the lives of others. Most of them think they're alone in that. They're not. Brian Hooks, Chairman and CEO of Stand Together, joins the show to make the case that the country's most urgent challenge isn't changing who people are. It's giving them permission to be who they already want to be. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways You can't have the I without the We. Hooks challenges the framing that pits individualism against community. Drawing on Abraham Maslow's concept of synergy, he argues the selfish and the selfless aren't in tension — when they merge, you get a flywheel of progress rather than a zero-sum fight. We're living a collective illusion. Neuroscientist Todd Rose's research reveals that most people privately want to contribute to their communities — but assume they're outliers. That self-silencing lets a loud minority misrepresent the country's character. Naming the illusion is the first step to dissolving it. The challenge isn't persuasion. It's permission. Hooks argues Americans don't need to be convinced to be better citizens — they need social permission to act on values they already hold. When people see someone just like them doing it, they follow. Frederick Douglass as a North Star for coalition-building. Hooks returns repeatedly to Douglass's vision of the Declaration as "saving principles" — not yet fulfilled, but aspirational in a way that can hold very different people together. Shared direction, not agreement on everything, is what makes diverse coalitions work. Stop picking a side. Start building policy coalitions. Stand Together learned the hard way that partisan politics leads to being taken for granted. Americans for Prosperity now pursues a policy-coalition strategy — working with Republicans and Democrats alike, and holding both accountable. It's hard to hate up close. Whether it's StoryCorps' One Small Step project or Stand Together's work in 1,300 communities, the pattern holds: when people work side by side on real problems, the tribal labels fade fast. Don't debate online. Go grab a beer. About Our Guest Brian Hooks is Chairman and CEO of Stand Together, a philanthropic community of more than 700 business leaders and philanthropists working to remove the barriers holding people back. He is also President of the Charles Koch Foundation and the Charles Koch Institute. Stand Together works with over 1,000 professors, tens of thousands of K-12 teachers, 200+ community-based organizations, and millions of grassroots activists. Hooks is co-author (with Charles Koch) of Believe in People: Bottom-Up Solutions for a Top-Down World. Links and Resources Stand Together: standtogether.org Be the People: bethepeople.org Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group The exhausted majority is waiting for permission to show up.

Two-thirds of Americans are exhausted by a political narrative that doesn’t match how they actually see the world. Jason Mangone has the data to prove it and a roadmap for what to do about it. Jason Mangone is the executive director of More in Common US, the American arm of a global organization founded after the assassination of British MP Jo Cox — whose maiden speech in Parliament included the line, “We have more in common than that which sets us apart.” Since launching its landmark Hidden Tribes study in 2018, More in Common has become one of the most cited voices on polarization, the perception gap, and what it will actually take to rebuild civic trust in America. Jason came to this work through a genuinely eclectic path: Marine infantry officer, Yale graduate student, co-author (with General Stanley McChrystal) of the bestselling Leaders: Myth and Reality, and yes, briefly the CEO of a Jersey Shore home maintenance company. He brings both the data and the disposition of someone who has learned to move across very different worlds — which, it turns out, is exactly what this moment requires. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways The exhausted majority is real, and it’s being ignored. More in Common’s Hidden Tribes research identified seven segments of the American public. The middle five — roughly two-thirds of the country — are what the research calls the exhausted majority. These are people whose politics don’t map neatly onto partisan narratives, who hold genuinely heterodox views, and for whom the current political environment is actively draining. They’re not disengaged because they don’t care. They’re disengaged because what they see on offer doesn’t reflect how they actually think. The wings aren’t just louder, they’re more wrong about each other. A perception gap is the difference between what you think a group believes and what they actually believe. The research finds that the further left or right someone sits, the larger their perception gap. The heaviest news consumers also tend to have the biggest gaps — a finding that cuts against the assumption that more information produces more understanding. As a concrete example: 73% of Republicans said the US should be a world leader in developing clean energy. Democrats estimated that only 26% of Republicans held that view. Trump’s coalition is not monolithic. More in Common’s Beyond MAGA study identified four distinct segments within Trump voters: MAGA Hardliners (29%), Anti-Woke Conservatives (21%), Mainline Republicans (30%), and the Reluctant Right (20%). Support for the war with Iran breaks sharply along those lines — 87% among Hardliners, down to just 25% among the Reluctant Right. About a quarter of that last group now say they regret their 2024 vote. The priority gap may be the defining political story of 2025. In November 2024, Americans’ perception of Trump’s top priorities matched their own: cost of living, the economy, immigration. Today only 13% believe cost of living is his top priority. Nearly half point to immigration, and nearly half to the war in Iran. Jason is careful to stay nonpartisan, but the implication is clear: the exhausted majority that gave Trump his margin may not feel seen by what’s followed. Institutions are where character gets formed — and they’re disappearing. Jason identifies three drivers of polarization: smartphones and the attention economy, the erosion of intermediary institutions (churches, little leagues, volunteer fire departments), and elite rhetoric that rewards conflict over compromise. The second one gets less attention than it deserves. These weren’t just places where people got along — they were places where people learned what kind of person they wanted to be. Being religious might be the new rebellion. Hidden Tribes 2.0 is in progress, and one of the most intriguing signals from More in Common’s recent work involves generational attitudes toward faith. Among younger voters — Trump voters and non-Trump voters alike — being religious is now more likely to be seen as countercultural than being an atheist. Jason’s read: when the dominant culture trends progressive and secular, traditionalism becomes the counterculture. It’s not all that surprising. Countercultures, by definition, push against whatever’s dominant. About Our Guest Jason Mangone is the executive director of More in Common US. He began his career as a US Marine infantry officer, serving three deployments including western Iraq and Haiti following the 2010 earthquake. After graduate school at Yale, he served as a research associate at the Council on Foreign Relations, co-authored the bestselling Leaders: Myth and Reality with General Stanley McChrystal and Jeff Eggers, and served as COO of the Service Year Alliance. He lives in Princeton, New Jersey, with his wife and four kids, coaches little league, and volunteers as a firefighter — which he notes is primarily a strategy to remain cool in the eyes of his children. Links and Resources More in Common US Hidden Tribes (2018) - hiddentribes.us Beyond MAGA (2026) - beyondmaga.us Leaders: Myth and Reality by Stanley McChrystal, Jeff Eggers, and Jason Mangone Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group “Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.”

She moderated the fly debate. She interviewed Stephen Hawking. She covered 12 presidential campaigns and sat down with the last 10 presidents. And she spent years inside Queen Elizabeth’s extraordinary vantage point on American democracy — one that no American journalist could ever fully replicate. Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief of USA TODAY, joins Corey to discuss her latest book, The Queen and Her Presidents: a sweeping account of Queen Elizabeth II’s relationships with every American president from Truman to Biden. But this conversation goes well beyond the book. Susan reflects on a career that began in a converted car dealership on Long Island, the lessons she learned covering her first president (and how badly she blew it), what it really takes to develop sources across decades of political reporting, and why — from a Kansas girl’s perspective — the people on both sides of our divide love America more than we give them credit for. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Preparation is a framework, not a script. Susan goes into every major interview with a plan — what she wants to get, how to get it, what to do if the answer goes sideways. But the goal is to inform the conversation, not control it. The worst thing an interviewer can do, she says, is fail to listen to the answer. Great sourcing is built on respect and fairness, not on pulling punches. Rich Bond, the young Long Island operative she profiled in 1979, became a top Republican official and a reliable source for decades — not because she went easy on him, but because he trusted her to be fair. She would not have softened a story about him, and he knew it. Books and daily journalism use the same muscle, differently. The skills transfer directly — the sourcing, the curiosity, the nose for a good detail — but the bar is higher and the time horizon is longer. Writing a book means people are paying thirty dollars and spending real time. You owe them something they couldn’t get from clicking a link. The best research rewards patience. Sifting through archival files at eight presidential libraries and the National Archives in Britain yielded moments that almost nobody else has read. The sarcastic cables British ambassadors sent back about LBJ as vice president confirmed everything LBJ already suspected they thought of him. They love America. Whether she’s at a No Kings rally or a MAGA rally, Susan hears the same thing: people who care deeply, who revere the Constitution, who think they’re fighting for the country. The polarization isn’t about love of country — it’s about a failure to extend basic respect across the divide. Queen Elizabeth perfected the art of getting people to talk. Her small talk strategy — chatter briefly, then turn the question back — was especially effective with men, who, as Susan notes diplomatically, tend to enjoy talking about themselves. Susan has consciously adopted the technique and credits it with making her better at navigating rooms full of strangers. About Our Guest Susan Page is the Washington Bureau Chief of USA TODAY and one of the most respected political journalists in America. She has covered 12 presidential campaigns and interviewed the last 10 presidents. She moderated the 2020 vice presidential debate between Kamala Harris and Mike Pence — yes, the one with the fly — and is the bestselling author of biographies of Barbara Bush, Nancy Pelosi, and Barbara Walters. Her latest book, The Queen and Her Presidents, chronicles Queen Elizabeth II’s relationships with every American president from Truman through Biden. Links and Resources The Queen and Her Presidents by Susan Page — susanpagedc.com Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group “Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.” Yes, really.

A friend of mine sits on the board of the largest Christian school in our valley. He loves this country, loves his neighbors, loves God (or at least he’s working on it, same as the rest of us). So why did he respond to millions of peaceful fellow citizens exercising their constitutional rights with laughing emojis? That question has been gnawing at me for months. This episode tries to answer it. When millions of Americans took to the streets last month in the No Kings rallies, peacefully exercising their First Amendment rights, the response from Donald Trump, Republican members of Congress, and leading voices in the MAGA movement was contempt. Not critique. Not engagement. Contempt. This solo episode asks why, and works through what that contempt actually costs us: constitutionally and civically. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways The laughing emojis aren’t about politics. More in Common’s research into Trump voters found one thread running through every category of the broader MAGA coalition: deep, abiding resentment toward the left. Not policy disagreement. Resentment. Years of accumulated grievance about cancel culture, political correctness, and perceived condescension. The laughing emojis are that resentment expressing itself, not a constitutional argument. The constitutional inventory is not abstract. Article One gives Congress, not the president, the power to levy taxes — yet sweeping tariff schemes were imposed anyway. Article One gives Congress the sole power to declare war — yet Iran was attacked without a declaration, without consulting Congress, and without a coherent plan. The Supreme Court, including three Republican-appointed justices, told the administration directly that it had grabbed power the Constitution never granted it. The First Amendment protections being invoked by No Kings protesters are the same ones being systematically pressured. Trump threatened, attacked, and sued CBS, ABC, and the Des Moines Register for coverage he didn’t like. Outlets were banned from the Pentagon for declining to sign loyalty pledges to the president rather than the Constitution. An aggressive ICE presence in city streets has turned the right to peaceably assemble into a theoretical right for millions of people. Whataboutism is cauterization, not argument. “But what about Obama” and “what about Hunter Biden” don’t refute a single fact presented in this episode. They don’t explain away the Supreme Court ruling on tariffs. They don’t restore one deported citizen. They don’t account for the dead. What they do is create enough noise to make facing the truth feel optional — burning the nerve endings so the pain stops registering. The Constitution is a covenant, not a rulebook. It doesn’t grade on a curve based on how much you resent the other side. It’s a promise the founders made to future generations that we recommit to each other every time we stand up for it — or fail to. As Chief Justice John Roberts put it when the solicitor general argued we live in a new world demanding a new reading: “It’s the same Constitution.” Links and Resources More in Common's Beyond MAGA study — beyondmaga.us USA Today / Susan Page's piece — www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/03/29/no-kings-rallies-a-red-flare-for-trump/89306058007/ Jonah Goldberg / The Dispatch — thedispatch.com/newsletter/gfile/no-kings-protests-tea-parties-bothsidesism Captain Robert Gustine (28-year Navy veteran) and Dr. Roger Herbert (former Naval Special Warfare Officer, ethics professor at the US Naval Academy) — substack.com/@gusgusentinerogerherbert/p-190864101 American Immigration Council — www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/report/immigration-detention Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group “Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.” Yes, really.

What if the reason we can't fix our politics is that we've skipped the part where we actually get to know each other? Rajiv Mehta has spent the better part of four decades asking questions that most people don't think to ask. At NASA, it was about the complexity lurking beneath simplified models of the atmosphere. At Apple, it was why people don't take more pictures. At Zume Life, it was why even doctors can't stick to their own health regimens. And for the past twenty-plus years, the question has been deeper still: how do we actually learn to know ourselves and each other well enough to build something lasting together? Rajiv is the founder of Mapping Ourselves, which helps organizational leaders build the cultures they seek by exploring the human roots of high performance. He's also a member of WEAVE, the nationwide initiative that supports grassroots leaders working to repair our frayed social fabric. His book Camaraderie is coming out this summer. The conversation moves from Mets fandom to Mars to medicine to the philosophy of Peter Singer to Genghis Khan, and somehow it all connects. That's the kind of episode this is. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Relationships before results. One of Raj's core convictions, borrowed from a friend long engaged in social movements, is that our culture has it exactly backwards. We treat connection as a luxury, something to get to after the real work is done. But without genuine relationship, results rarely last. This isn't soft thinking. It's what SEAL teams already know, and it's what Raj has been trying to bring to the rest of us. The self is plural. The phrase "quantified self" always had a problem, Raj admits: it pointed inward when the whole point is outward. We are fundamentally social creatures. Studying yourself means studying yourself in community, in relationship, in context. Going off to meditate in a cave has its value, but if you lose sight of yourself-in-the-ecosystem, you've missed the main thing. Know yourself before you can know others. The doctors who were baffled by patient non-adherence were themselves non-adherent. We can't build real camaraderie with people we don't understand, and we can't understand others if we haven't done the harder work of understanding ourselves. Self-knowledge isn't navel-gazing. It's the prerequisite for everything else. Community, connection, belonging, and camaraderie are not the same thing. Raj draws careful distinctions. Community is a container. Belonging is an emotional sense of home, with real agency attached. Connection is deeply interpersonal, the discovery of specific things you genuinely like about another person. Camaraderie brings all of this together within a group united by shared purpose. Conflating them leads to surface-level interventions that don't hold. Complexity isn't a bug. It's the reality we have to learn to live inside. From atmospheric modeling at NASA to human behavior in healthcare, Raj kept running into the same error: people mistake their simplified models for the world itself. When something goes wrong, they blame the workers instead of the design. Real progress requires holding complexity rather than explaining it away. Start human, then get to the hard stuff. Whether it's cross-partisan dialogue or cross-cultural misunderstanding, Raj's prescription is the same: find the human first. Discover what you share. Build some real connection. Then, and only then, you might be able to have the harder conversation. Walking straight into the room with a contested policy topic and expecting good-faith exchange is, as he puts it, nearly impossible. About Our Guest Rajiv Mehta is the founder of Mapping Ourselves, which helps organizational leaders build high-performing cultures by developing the self-knowledge and mutual understanding that genuine camaraderie requires. With an engineering background from Princeton and Stanford, and a career spanning NASA, Apple, and Adobe, he has spent the past two decades guiding corporate executives, military commanders, and community leaders through the practice of personal science. He is a member of WEAVE, the nationwide initiative supporting grassroots leaders working to repair social trust across America. His book Camaraderie is forthcoming this summer. Links and Resources Mapping Ourselves - mappingourselves.com WEAVE: The Social Fabric Project - weavers.org Camaraderie by Rajiv Mehta (forthcoming, summer 2025) Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

We can survive. But can we thrive? That's a different question entirely. Corey Nathan joined Andrew Keen on Keen on America to talk about the state of civic discourse in America. Robert Mueller's death and the president's response to it is the jumping-off point, but the conversation goes much deeper: the exhausted majority, the horseshoe of extremism, storytelling as a bridge across difference, and what it takes to stay in hard conversations. This feed drop brings that interview to the TP&R audience. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways: Robert Mueller as a mirror. Mueller served under presidents of both parties, earned a Purple Heart, and devoted his education to public service. His death and the president's response to it shows what happens when tribalism does our thinking: one data point erases an entire life. The exhausted majority is real. The Hidden Tribes study from More in Common found that only 6-8% on either side qualify as genuine extremists. The other 85% are far more nuanced. They want to enjoy the barbecue and Thanksgiving dinner without it turning into a war. The conflict entrepreneurs don't represent most of us. It's a horseshoe, not a spectrum. The extreme ends have more in common with each other than either would admit. The incentive structure is identical: compete for attention, be the loudest voice in the room. Stories are the antidote to caricature. When we understand someone's story, we stop reducing them to a single data point. Corey illustrates this with a friend born in Lebanon with family in Iran who voted for Trump. The disagreements are real. But understanding the story behind the view changes everything. Surviving and thriving are not the same thing. Corey's family spent 800 years in what is now Ukraine. They knew how to survive. But survival isn't the American promise. The experiment is worth protecting and worth talking about. About Andrew Keen Andrew Keen is a British-American broadcaster and author, host of Keen on America and How to Fix Democracy. He is known for pressing his guests hard and not letting easy answers stand. Links and Resources Keen on America: https://keenon.substack.com/keenon.substack.com/ Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

He drove a truck across America listening to talk radio. Somewhere between 9/11, the Obama years, and a long personal reckoning with his own anger, Wilk Wilkinson became one of the most unlikely figures in the depolarization movement: a committed conservative who believes the two-party system is tearing the country apart, and who is doing something about it. Wilk is the Director of Media Systems and Operations for Braver Angels, the nation's largest cross-partisan, volunteer-led movement to bridge the partisan divide. He also hosts the podcast Derate the Hate. In this conversation, Wilk traces his political awakening from post-9/11 talk radio to becoming radicalized by the polarization he once participated in, and why he eventually chose the harder path. He and Corey dig into tribalism, political identity, January 6th, immigration enforcement, the two-party doom loop, and what it actually takes to stay in conversation across real disagreement. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Political identity has become personal identity, and that's the root of the problem. Wilk argues that the single most destructive shift in American civic life is that people now treat political attacks as personal attacks. When your party becomes your tribe, criticism of a policy feels like an assault on who you are. That's not politics anymore. That's warfare. Tribalism isn't a flaw. It's a feature we have to consciously override. We evolved as tribal creatures because belonging to a group kept us alive. The problem is that ancient wiring hasn't caught up with modern civil society. Wilk and Corey agree: staying in real conversation across difference isn't natural. It's a decision. Most Trump voters aren't MAGA loyalists, and treating them as a monolith makes everything worse. Citing the More in Common "Beyond MAGA" research, Wilk points out that only about 29% of the 77 million people who voted for Trump in 2024 fit the MAGA hardliner profile. When we flatten a diverse group into a caricature of its worst actors, we guarantee the doom loop continues. You can support border security and still call out a botched implementation. Wilk doesn't hedge: he wanted the border closed. He also calls the deportation strategy's implementation a disaster, citing constitutional violations, erosion of institutional trust, and the breakdown of basic civic norms. This is what it sounds like when a conservative applies principles rather than party loyalty. The fix starts local, not national. Both Corey and Wilk see more reason for hope at the community and state level than in Washington. Local relationships, shared problems, and the ability to actually look someone in the eye still create space for the kind of trust that national politics has almost completely destroyed. About Our Guest Wilk Wilkinson is the Director of Media Systems and Operations for Braver Angels, and the host of Derate the Hate, a podcast offering practical tools and honest conversations for people trying to grow personally and engage civically. A self-described committed conservative, Wilk has spent years in the bridge-building space doing the kind of work he once would have dismissed. Find him at deratedhate.com and on Substack by searching "Wil Wilkinson." Links and Resources Braver Angels: braverangels.org Derate the Hate: deratethehate.com More in Common "Beyond MAGA" research: beyondmaga.us Monica Guzman / I Never Thought of It That Way: moniguzman.com/book Find us and engage with us on YouTube, Substack, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter/X, Threads, TikTok, and Bluesky. Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

He fled Lebanon at 19, built a life here, and has strong opinions about what’s happening in the Middle East right now. And he disagrees with some of what I’ve been writing. So he called me. Bernard Kash is not a politician, a pundit, or a policy expert. He’s a Lebanese-born immigrant who came to this country legally in 1985, built a business from scratch, and has half a family that’s Muslim and half that’s Christian. He has relatives and friends still living in Lebanon and Iran. And when he saw some of what Corey had been writing publicly, he picked up the phone. That’s the kind of conversation this program exists for. In this episode, Bernard and Corey dig into the Israel–Lebanon–Iran conflict, media coverage and what it leaves out, the constitutional questions around Trump’s decision to bomb Iran without going to Congress, immigration, and the political tribal warfare that makes it hard to just talk to each other anymore. They don’t agree on everything. They never have. And yet here they are. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways What people on the ground in Lebanon actually think about Hezbollah: Bernard shares firsthand accounts from relatives still living in Lebanon and Iran — a perspective you won’t find on cable news. Most Lebanese people don’t want war with Israel and see Hezbollah as an Iranian proxy, not a Lebanese cause. The Article I question: Corey raises a pointed constitutional concern: Trump began bombing Iran within days of the State of the Union, without consulting Congress. Bernard doesn’t entirely disagree on principle, but argues that in practice, the ends and the means sometimes get complicated. The “best heart surgeon” problem: Bernard puts it plainly: he wouldn’t invite Trump to dinner, doesn’t think he’s a good person, and can still make the case that for certain geopolitical situations, he may be the right instrument. That tension is exactly what this conversation is about. Media isn’t monolithic: Both Corey and Bernard push back on the idea that “the media” is a single entity lying to us. The reporters on the ground are often doing real work. What makes it onto air is a different question. Critiquing Trump isn’t critiquing you: Corey makes a point he’s been sitting with: when he criticizes the president, some friends take it as a personal attack. And those same friends assume that because he’s not sufficiently pro-Trump, he must be the worst caricature the right has invented of the left. Neither is true. “Grow up” as political philosophy: When asked how we talk politics and religion without killing each other, Bernard’s answer is two words: grow up. Rise above the label, the jersey, the acronym. Find out who the person actually is. About Our Guest Bernard Kash fled Lebanon in 1985 at age 19, after a decade of civil war. He came to the United States legally, built a life, raised a family, and has owned Earth Wise Nutrition Center in Santa Clarita for many years. He is one of Corey’s good friends, and one of his most reliable sparring partners. Links and Resources Earth Wise Nutrition Center: earthwisevitamins.com Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Now go talk some politics and religion but with gentleness and respect.

The U.S. is the only country in a 25-nation study where more than half of citizens view their fellow citizens as morally bad. Jonathan Evans of Pew Research Center joins us to unpack what the data actually says. Jonathan Evans is a senior researcher at Pew Research Center specializing in international polling on religion and national identity. The most recent report he led surveyed adults in 25 countries on how they rate the morality of their fellow citizens, and the findings about the U.S. sparked immediate conversation. But as Jonathan explains, the headline number is only the beginning. When you look at specific behaviors, partisan breakdowns, and how the same religious identity plays out differently across borders, the picture gets far more interesting and far more nuanced. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways The U.S. stands alone on the big question. Across all 25 countries surveyed, the U.S. is the only one where a majority of citizens rate their fellow citizens as morally bad. Canada, by contrast, ranks among the most optimistic. But the headline doesn't tell the whole story. On individual behaviors like gambling and marijuana use, Americans are among the least likely in the world to call them morally wrong. On extramarital affairs, they rank among the most likely. The U.S. isn't simply more moralistic across the board. It's a global pattern, not just an American one. In many countries, supporters of the party out of power are more likely to rate their fellow citizens' morality negatively. In the U.S., 60% of Democrats vs. 46% of Republicans gave their fellow Americans a negative rating, a 14-point gap that aligns with a broader worldwide trend. Same religion, different conclusions. Christians in France and Christians in Brazil look almost nothing alike on issues like abortion. Regional and cultural context shapes moral views at least as much as religious identity does. Views on divorce have softened globally. Comparing this study to Pew's 2013 survey of similar questions, one of the clearest trends is a decline in the share of people across many countries calling divorce morally wrong, with notable exceptions including India, where the number moved in the opposite direction. Rigorous methodology is the foundation. Surveying roughly 1,000 people per country isn't arbitrary. That threshold enables reliable cross-demographic comparisons within each country. Pew's international work uses face-to-face interviews, phone surveys, or both depending on what's standard and safe in each country. About Our Guest Jonathan Evans is a senior researcher at Pew Research Center, where he focuses on international polling related to religion and national identity. He has authored studies on religion in India, religious tolerance and segregation, Christianity in Western Europe, and religious belief and national belonging in Central and Eastern Europe. He holds a graduate degree from Georgetown University's Department of Government, where he studied democracy and governance. Before his career in research, he was an organ performance major whose undergraduate thesis involved analyzing original manuscripts of a Charles Hubert Hastings Parry composition at Oxford. Yes, really. Links and Resources Pew Research Center - pewresearch.org Fantasia and Fugue in G Op. 188 - Sir Charles Hubert Hastings Parry - www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O0lBYic6DY Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Now go talk some politics and religion but with gentleness and respect.

Bono once said, before launching into Helter Skelter: “This is a song Charles Manson stole from the Beatles. We’re stealing it back.” That line describes exactly what’s been happening to some of the most important words in the English language, and exactly what we need to do about it. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Words Shape How We Think: When powerful words get hijacked and attached to behaviors that contradict their meaning, it distorts our ability to reason about reality. This isn’t semantics. It’s about preserving the architecture of accountability.   “Christian” Belongs to Those Who Follow Jesus: The word has nothing to do with political allegiance. The Jesus of Matthew, the one who called down blessings on the meek and the peacemakers, is not interchangeable with any flag or party symbol.   “Conservative” Means Responsible Stewardship: Edmund Burke. William F. Buckley Jr. A tradition built on civil order, distributed power, and fiscal responsibility. Adding $5.5 trillion to the national debt while weaponizing the executive branch is not that tradition.   “Patriot” Means Defending the Constitution: Peggy Noonan, whose work was shared by the Heritage Foundation, defined American patriotism as the reaffirmation of founding ideas: free speech, free press, freedom of religion, equal protection. Real patriots protect speech, especially speech they disagree with.   “Truth” Is Not a Brand: A platform built by someone with a documented record of tens of thousands of public lies does not get to claim the word. Truth belongs to those who actually pursue it.   We’re Stealing Them Back: Truth. Christian. Conservative. Patriot. These words carry centuries of weight and intention. They were made with moral substance. That’s what TP&R is all about: restoring the words to those who live them. Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

What do voters actually want? And does what happens on social media have anything to do with it? David Drucker spent his twenties running his parents' manufacturing businesses in East LA. He was paying workers' comp, dealing with state regulations, signing the checks. Then he became a political journalist. That backstory turns out to matter. In this conversation, the senior writer at The Dispatch joins Corey to talk about what it means to cover American politics from the ground up. Drucker has built his career on getting out of Washington and talking to actual voters, and what he finds there consistently upends the assumptions of the media and political class. Most people are not as angry as your social media feed suggests. Most people have nuanced, complicated views. And most of them are voting on one thing: whether their lives are getting better or worse. The conversation ranges from the craft of journalism and the culture of The Dispatch to the internal fault lines of the MAGA coalition, the 2026 midterms, and the U.S. war in Iran. Drucker's analysis is sharp, his sourcing is deep, and his instinct, shaped by years of traveling the country, is to trust voters more than pundits. David Drucker is a senior writer at The Dispatch, based in Washington, D.C. Before joining in 2023, he was a senior correspondent at the Washington Examiner, a reporter at Roll Call, and covered California politics and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger from the Sacramento bureau of the Los Angeles Daily News. He is the author of In Trump's Shadow and a regular presence on cable news and nationally syndicated radio. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Twitter Is Not the Town Square: The loudest voices online represent a small and unrepresentative slice of the electorate. Most Americans hold more nuanced, less partisan views than social media suggests, and they vote accordingly. The Ground Truth: There is no substitute for traveling and talking to voters in their own communities. Drucker has built a career on it. The alternative is reporting from inside an echo chamber. MAGA Voters Are Not Isolationists: They're against wars we lose. They're perfectly fine with projecting American power against bad actors. The vocal anti-war voices on the MAGA right are a minority within the coalition, not its center of gravity. The Economy Is the Election: Voters put Trump back in the White House expecting him to replicate his first-term economy. They don't think he's done that. That perception will drive the 2026 midterms. Politicians Are in the Service Business: They do what they believe they must to keep their jobs. Voters who complain about dysfunction are often sending contradictory signals, demanding results while simultaneously demanding that their representatives refuse to deal. The Dispatch as a Model: Drucker describes a publication built on being correct rather than fast, on traveling to where the story is, on editing everything twice, and on a business model not driven by clicks. AI and Journalism: Drucker doesn't use AI in his writing or drafting, and he doesn't trust it yet. He wants to see the original source material, not a summary. The Coalition Problem After Trump: Trump is just populistic enough for the populists and just normal enough for the normies. That is a unique skill. The next Republican nominee will not automatically inherit the coalition he built. Links and Resources The Dispatch: thedispatch.com David M. Drucker on Twitter: x.com/DavidMDrucker David on Bluesky: bsky.app/profile/davidmdrucker.bsky.social Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

62% of Trump voters say being MAGA is not an important part of their identity. So who, exactly, did we just elect? Stephen Hawkins has been trying to answer that question with data for nearly a decade. As Director of Research at More in Common since its founding in 2016, he helped author the landmark Hidden Tribes study and now leads the Beyond MAGA project, the most comprehensive look yet at the psychology of the 77 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump in 2024. In this conversation, Corey and Stephen dig into the four distinct types of Trump voters, the emergent phenomenon of "traditionalism" among Gen Z, the widening gap between MAGA hard-liners and the reluctant right, and what any of this means for a country that our guest describes as feeling "pre-hot conflict." Stephen brings the rigor of a public opinion researcher and the perspective of someone who has lived, worked, and changed his mind on both sides of America's ideological divide. This is not a conversation about demonizing Trump voters or excusing them. It is about understanding them, and about what that understanding demands of the rest of us. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Coalition, Not Cult. The Beyond MAGA study surveyed nearly 11,000 Trump voters and found four distinct segments: MAGA Hard-liners (29%), Anti-Woke Conservatives (21%), Mainline Republicans (30%), and the Reluctant Right (20%). Three out of five Trump voters say being MAGA is not a central part of their identity. The Exhausted Majority Under Pressure. Stephen expects Hidden Tribes 2.0 to show the wings have grown, not shrunk. The exhausted majority may be moving from exhaustion toward something closer to despair. New Traditionalism and the Logic of Transgression. Among younger Trump voters, traditional or religious identity functions as a form of rebellion in a secular culture. For some Gen Z voters, Christianity is more countercultural than secularism. Supporting Trump taps the same energy as defying the teacher everyone dislikes. The Respect Gap. 84% of Trump voters feel respected by Trump. Only 21% feel respected by Democratic politicians. That 63-point gap is why even reluctant Trump voters are unlikely to migrate to the other party, regardless of policy grievances. No Inflection Points. The Epstein files, Greenland threats, Medicare subsidy rollbacks, military actions in Venezuela and Iran: none of them meaningfully moved Trump voter support. Reconsideration is happening among those who were already hesitant, not among convinced supporters. Stories, Values, Listen. Corey and Stephen both land on the same framework for better cross-divide conversation: surface the other person's story, understand their underlying value system (not just their policy positions), and listen with genuine curiosity rather than loading up your rebuttal. The Case for Clarity. More in Common is nonpartisan and does not have electoral ambitions, but Stephen does not mince words: the country feels pre-hot-conflict, and what it needs is not more outrage but more precision about who is actually out there and what they believe. About Our Guest Stephen Hawkins is Director of Research at More in Common, a nonpartisan organization working to understand and address the forces driving political division in nine countries. He has overseen the organization's research since its founding in 2016, including the landmark 2018 Hidden Tribes study and the 2026 Beyond MAGA project. Prior to More in Common, Stephen conducted public opinion research for Fortune 100 companies, United Nations agencies, electoral campaigns, and political movements. He has appeared on C-SPAN's Washington Journal and regularly on Colorado Matters. He holds a master's in public policy from Harvard's Kennedy School and a B.A. in political science and international affairs from George Washington University's Elliott School. Links and Resources Beyond MAGA report: beyondmaga.us More in Common on Substack: moreincommon.substack.com More in Common: moreincommonus.com Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Now go talk some politics and religion with gentleness and respect.

What does it look like to grow up in a city running power cords between neighbors' houses just to stay warm — and then spend your career trying to rebuild that ethic everywhere else? Fred Riley is the Executive Director of Weave: The Social Fabric Project at the Aspen Institute, where he leads a national effort to fund, highlight, and connect the grassroots leaders who are stitching communities back together. Fred grew up in Saginaw, Michigan, shaped by a mother who "kneaded the dough" of her kids like bread — and by teachers, pastors, and neighbors who saw something worth nurturing. That formation is the whole story of why Weave exists, and why Fred is the right person running it. This conversation goes deep: from the Baltimore neighborhood that got a symphony performance because one woman cleaned out a vacant lot, to the moment Fred lived for months with his boxes packed — because he wasn't planning to stay. And somehow it circles back to why, at the end of the day, the most radical thing any of us can do is knock on a neighbor's door. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Weave the Social Fabric Project: Founded by David Brooks at the Aspen Institute, Weave identifies and resources "weavers" — people living counter-culturally in their communities by showing up for neighbors, organizing mutual aid, and building trust where it's been lost. Connected Service: Not volunteering for a community, but with one. Repetitive, in-person, relational — the kind of service that actually builds bonds rather than just checking a box. The Trust Map: Weave's tool at trustmap.org lets you find your community's trust score and connect to stories and resources that can help shift it. The Whole-Self Prerequisite: You can't show up for a community when you're not whole yourself. Fred's personal journey — weight, identity, a period of planning to end his life — is inseparable from the conviction he brings to this work. Cement the Relationship First: Fred's answer to the TP&R question: don't go in leading with politics. Find the shared humanity first. If the relationship is solid enough, the disagreements become manageable — or irrelevant. See People as Kids in Adult Clothes: A framework from Fred's own therapy: if you can picture the childhood behind someone's adult behavior, you unlock a level of empathy that makes even hard conversations possible. About Our Guest Fred Riley is the Executive Director of Weave: The Social Fabric Project at the Aspen Institute. He previously served as Chief Advancement Officer for the YMCA of Greater Cincinnati and built his career in youth development and community organizing. He lives in Washington, D.C. Links and Resources Fred Riley / Weave Weave: The Social Fabric Project: weavers.org Trust Map: trustmap.org Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

What do you actually mean when you say the Pledge of Allegiance? And are you still willing to mean it? For years, Corey stood in silence during the Pledge of Allegiance, troubled by what looked too much like idol worship. Then something shifted. Reading the words instead of performing them, he realized the pledge was never about the flag or the man holding the office. It was about the republic for which it stands. In a moment when that republic is under genuine pressure, this episode is about the difference between supporting a policy and cheering the dismantling of the constitutional constraints that govern how it gets carried out. Those are not the same thing, and the confusion between them is where democracies go wrong. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Republic, Not Ruler: The Pledge of Allegiance is a pledge to a constitutional order, not to a flag, a party, or a person. Reading those words carefully changes everything about what it means to say them. Policy vs. Method: You can support stronger border enforcement and still insist on due process. You can back economic protectionism and still insist Congress holds the commerce power. Supporting a goal is not a blank check for any method of achieving it. Article I Is Not Ambiguous: The Constitution gives Congress, not the president, the power to declare war and regulate commerce with foreign nations. This isn't interpretation. It's the plain text, and conservative and liberal scholars alike have been raising the alarm for years. The Gap Is Real: Trump won with just under 51% of the vote. His approval is now below 40%. That gap consists of real people who voted for a sane border policy and lower grocery prices, and are now watching something different. They are not the same people as those applauding masked agents conducting raids with minimal judicial oversight. Authoritarianism Begins with Exceptions: It doesn't begin with troops in the streets. It begins when citizens decide constitutional limits are optional when the right person is in charge. That logic, extended to the next administration, is what's actually on the table. Jonathan Rauch Said the Word: One of the most careful, fair-minded political thinkers in America, someone who literally wrote the book defending free inquiry from both the left and the right, used the word "fascism" for the first time after concluding the resemblances had become too many and too strong to deny. The question isn't whether he went too far. The question is why so many others are still hesitating. A Declaration, Not a Reflex: What was once a civic ritual has become something else. Saying those words in a moment when the republic is under pressure is not nationalism. It's resistance. Links and Resources David French (referenced) Constitutional scholar, First Amendment advocate, columnist - www.nytimes.com/2026/03/01/opinion/trump-iran-congress-approval.html Jonathan Rauch (referenced) Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought — press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/K/bo18140749.html Yes, It's Fascism - www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-trump-maga-ice/685751/ Justice Neil Gorsuch (referenced) Concurrence in the recent tariff case, arguing for the constitutional role of Congress as deliberative body - www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/24-1287#writing-24-1287_CONCUR_5 Connect with Us Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

What does it look like to spend 25 years covering a story you wish you could stop covering — and still refuse to despair? Gustavo Arellano is an LA Times columnist, Pulitzer Prize finalist, and the son of two Mexican immigrants. In this conversation he covers the Trump deportation machine, Rancho Libertarianism, why Americans hate Mexicans but love Mexican food, and what it actually looks like to stay in relationship across political difference. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion   Key Takeaways The Deportation Leviathan: This isn’t about policy logic or net fiscal impact. It’s demonization as strategy, funded for decades, borrowed from California’s Prop 187 playbook. Agents of Their Own Lives: Undocumented people are not a pitiful mass. They are individuals who make this country better. Framing them as victims does them a disservice. Rancho Libertarianism: The political identity Gustavo coined for Mexican hill-country values: bootstrap mentality, community pride, distrust of government, refusal to be used by either party. It explains a lot about 2024. Latinos Are Not a Monolith: Every community on his 3,000-mile pre-election road trip had its own story. None of it reducible to a single bloc. You Eat Their Food, You Start to See Them: Mexican food as cultural bridge. The problem with Chipotle is that it’s a burrito gentrifier, displacing local traditions it doesn’t care about. Stay in the Friendships: A Trump-supporting friend promised to take up guns for Gustavo if ICE came for him. Gustavo told him to start carrying his passport, “because you’re darker than me.” The friend responded with a thumbs up. That, Gustavo says, was a victory. These Are Also the Best of Times: During Operation W*****k in the 1950s, the only people fighting back were communists. Today the resistance is broader than anything this country has seen on this issue. About Our Guest Gustavo Arellano is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times and the author of Taco USA: How Mexican Food Conquered America. He was a finalist for the 2025 Pulitzer Prize in commentary and part of the team that won the 2023 Pulitzer Prize in breaking news. The son of two Mexican immigrants, he has covered immigration, Latino politics, and the American Southwest for 25 years. Links and Resources Gustavo Arellano Newsletter (free, weekly): gustavoarellano.org LA Times: latimes.com/people/gustavo-arellano   “Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)” (referenced at 00:26:00) Woody Guthrie’s song about the 1948 crash that killed 28 Mexican farmworkers. ICE’s January 2025 post calling the victims “illegal Mexican aliens” is what sent Gustavo to write about it. Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam (referenced at 00:57:00) On declining social capital. Gustavo’s prescription: join things, meet people, touch grass. Born in East LA (1987, referenced at 00:15:00) Cheech Marin’s satirical classic. Gustavo’s conversation about it with David Chang is what put it on Corey’s radar. Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Links and additional resources: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.