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They were ready to help. Ready to serve. Ready to give whatever they had to give. Their deep desire to help would push them through the waiting, the redirection, and the change of plans. And those years of surrendering to God’s plan, even when they didn’t know what it was, would give them the foundation and the conviction they needed when they finally got their yes. In Part 2, we get into what that life actually looked like from the inside. Those early years in the Philippines. A pregnant wife navigating a foreign country alone. New language, new customs, new purpose. And why two people who, given the chance to do it all over again, would answer the same way they always have. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, press pause and listen to it now. Episode Timestamps 01:48 Writing to the Secretary of Defense: How God Opened the Door  02:46 “Don’t Limit Yourself. Let God Limit You.”  04:26 Selling the Scuba Gear: The Exact Amount He Needed  05:10 Popcorn for Dinner, Parking Lots, and None of It Mattered  06:43 Hawaii Testing: 1982 and Not Yet  08:32 Sell Everything. Quit the Job. We’re Going.  09:39 The Burning Obsession That Wouldn’t Quit  11:30 “It Was a Lot Harder Than I Thought”: Sandy on Jacksonville  12:00 Midnight Shifts and “How Do I Love Him So Much?”  18:14 The First Worship Service in the Philippines: A Temple Dedication  18:44 “What About Me?”: Sandy on Always Picking Up Her Life  19:49 “It’s More Than Just Supporting Him. That’s My Role.”  20:50 “Sandy as Minister’s Wife Is One of the Greatest Blessings God Has Given Me” 22:15 Arriving in the Philippines: The Heat, the Traffic, and the Mall 25:15 “Will She Survive?”: What Bob Was Really Thinking on That Plane  26:05 “Shame on Me for Underestimating Her Capacity to Adapt”  27:15 Ramen on Rice, Walking to School, No Money for the Trike  37:10 The Taxi: A Wife in Labor, a Husband Who Had to Stay 37:47 “What Was He to Do? There Was Nothing He Could Do.”  38:03 “You Will Always Be Number Two”: What the Minister’s Wives Told Sandy  40:36 “Give Yourself Completely. No Strings Attached.”  41:57 God Is Not a Trickster: The Challenges That Were Really Preparation  46:07 The Hardest Part: Learning to Minister in a Language That Wasn’t His  47:54 Prayers Before Visiting the Brethren in Shanty Homes  50:30 “I Don’t Know Where the Words Came From. They Just Came Out.”  52:00 Sandy’s Family Prayers: Filtering Water Through T-Shirts  54:10 Three Years in the Philippines: In a Nutshell  55:14 Bible Studies With Water Up to Their Knees  57:00 Ordination Day: Sandy Watching From the Wing  59:05 “God Is Finally Saying Yes”  01:05:56 45 Years in Ministry, Most of It in the Media  01:06:48 From One Congregation in Africa to Countries Across the World  01:08:35 The Gibson Les Paul Guitar and God Always Making a Way  01:13:06 “Everybody Has Choices Every Single Day. Be Alert.”  01:13:53 Sandy’s Advice to Young Ministers’ Wives  01:21:36 “He Belongs to the Brethren. I Get Them at the End of the Day.”  01:22:36 “I Want to Do It Again. All of It. We’ve Been Blessed.” 01:23:53 Bob’s Advice to Young Ministers: Answer Your Phone. Never Ghost Anybody.  01:27:03 “It Was Like Outside of Yourself. But It Becomes Yourself.”  01:27:41 “Could You Have Imagined Doing Anything Else?”  01:30:26 What Do You Love Most About Each Other?  Brother Bob and Sister Sandy Pellien didn’t just surrender once. They surrendered everything, repeatedly, across continents, across assignments, and they are still going. From a car sinking underwater in Guam, to a taxi in the Philippines, to over 40 years of assignments across the world, their answers has always been the same. And it’s the answer we can all learn from. Whatever God asks of us, whatever change is waiting, whatever the cost, whatever uncertainty it may bring us in the moment, we take a moment to smile and say, “okay God, let’s go.” Thank you for joining us for this season of Making Changes. To listen to all of the episodes from this season, visit incmedia.org/making-changes, the INC Media app, or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening. And may your change uplift you. Connect with the Making Changes Host on Instagram: @aliwgarciapablo Rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow the show on Instagram. Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes   Mentioned in the episode: Making Changes Season 4 https://incmedia.org/making-changes/ Connect with us: Connect with the Making Changes Host  Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Before serving together as a minister and minister’s wife in the Church Of Christ (Iglesia Ni Cristo) for over 40 years, Brother Bob and Sister Sandy were just high school sweethearts starting their life in the military while stationed in Guam. They were just two young Americans living for the moment, and that was enough. Then a car went off a bridge. And sank. Trapped underwater, seatbelt jammed, Bob made a promise to God in the dark. What followed was a Bible study he never planned to attend, a truth he never expected to find, and a wife who went for him one night — and came back the next night for herself. This is a story of two people who have never stopped choosing the life they surrendered to. Episode Timestamps 00:00               I’m Not on That Side Anymore: The Moment That Started It All 01:21               Meet Brother Bob and Sister Sandy Pellien 02:12               First Day of High School, English Class, and a Pair of Boots 05:16               The Bonfire: Where It Became Official 06:39               A Proposal Written on a Letter From Boot Camp 11:24               Newlyweds and the Vietnam War 15:20               Beach Bums in Guam: Scuba Diving, Motorcycles, and Living for the Moment 17:21               The Night Dive That Changed Everything 18:57               The Car Goes Off the Bridge 20:33               Trapped Underwater: “I’m Not Done Yet” 20:55               The Promise He Made to God in the Dark 22:43               Brother John Kolp: The Man of Very Few Words 28:24               Sandy Hears About the Accident: “No Big Deal” 31:34               The First Bible Study at the Church Of Christ 33:19               Brother Bob Raises His Hand in the Middle of Bible Study 36:29               Sister Sandy Goes the Second Night — This Time for Herself 38:24               “I Wanted the Rest of the Story” 40:11               Before the Church and After the Church 43:04               “We Were Just Gratifying Ourselves” 44:14               What Freedom Actually Means 54:49               Sharing the Truth — and the Pushback About the Messenger 01:02:36          Baptism Day: Brother Bob 01:05:29          Baptism Day: Sister Sandy 01:11:12          Eight Hours to Jacksonville, Every Weekend 01:13:28          Cassette Tapes and Worship Service at Home 01:19:12          “I’m Not on That Side Anymore. I’m on Your Side Now, God.” After hundreds of hours of driving up and down Florida. Sleeping in parking lots. Watching those early ministers run themselves into the ground trying to teach the words of God — Brother Bob’s determination was set. He was ready to help. Whatever that looked like. And Sister Sandy was right there next to him…without hesitation, without negotiation, or questions. She was in. They didn’t know what came next. They just knew they were done deciding for themselves. The second half of their story is about what happens when two people hand everything over to God, completely… and in Brother Bob and Sister Sandy’s case, together. Trust me, I’ve known Brother Bob and Sister Sandy for decades and there’s so much I didn’t know about them until this conversation. Listen to part two of this story when it drops wherever you listen and watch podcasts. If Brother Bob and Sister Sandy’s story moved you today, share it with someone who needs to hear that the life God has planned for you is bigger than anything you could have chosen for yourself. For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org, the INC Media app, or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you. Mentioned in the episode: Making Changes Season 4 https://incmedia.org/making-changes/ That’s in the Bible http://incmedia.org/thats-in-the-bible Connect with us: Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Madison grew up in a home full of music, laughter, and faith. A mom who lit up every room. A dad who made her laugh. Parents who made sure she knew God from a very young age. Madison was only 16 when her life completely changed. In the span of five months, both of her parents were gone. She was an only child. A pandemic was just beginning. And she had every reason to walk away from everything she had been taught to believe. She didn’t. This is the story of a young woman whose greatest loss became the very thing that proved what her parents had built in her. And how the faith she inherited became the faith she chooses to lean on every day. Episode Timestamps 00:00                “I’m Still Here”: The Faith That Held 01:35                Meet Madison: Psychology Grad, Choir Leader, Future Teacher 03:08                The Parents Who Made Her Childhood 08:07                What Her Mom Always Told Her About God 09:41                The Call That Changed Everything 13:35                The Night Before Her Mom Passed — She Still Wanted to Perform 17:29                Life at 16: Rocks Tied to Her Everywhere She Went 20:06               “The Choir Was the Only Thing That Made Sense” 22:16               How Tragedy Deepened Her Faith 27:25 — Her Dad Was Already Sick 30:10                Five Months Later: Her Dad Never Came Home 36:23                What She Said to God After Losing Both Parents 38:06               “God Must See Something in Me That I Don’t Understand Yet” 38:33                The Toughest Part: Every Change at Once 43:03                How She Stayed Sane Through the Pandemic 46:29               Milestones: The Ones She’ll Never Share With Them 48:39                Her Birthday and Why She Hated It 49:20                Her Therapist’s Reframe: Living Because They Lived 51:09                When Grief Hits Now 52:09                If I Got Through That, Why Can’t I Get Through Anything Else? 52:59              Why She Majored in Psychology 53:56                Advice for Anyone in a Season of Grief 55:11                Where She Is in Her Healing 57:26               The Purpose to Her Pain 01:00:09           Advice to Young People: Give Your Parents a Chance 01:01:38           How She Lives Now: With Intention 01:03:11           “There Has Always Been Something God Left for Me” 01:04:05           Why Acceptance Changes Everything 01:05:35           “You Could Take Everything From Me. I Would Still Have My Faith.” 01:10:37           Her Dreams for the Future 01:11:29           What Kind of Mom She Hopes to Be 01:12:12           Why She Said Yes to This Podcast 01:14:05          Rapid Fire: Favorite Memories With Mom and Dad 01:16:00           Photos, Feelings, and Bittersweet 01:17:04           Change Is: An Opportunity to Grow If you are in the middle of something right now and you don’t know what to say, just say what Madison said. God, I don’t know what to tell you. But you see me. I just need your help. And even if you’re not going through anything right now, Madison’s story is a reminder for all of us to not take our loved ones for granted. To hold on tighter to the people God has placed in our lives…because we really never know what tomorrow brings. For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org, the INC Media app, or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you. Mentioned in the episode: Faith Speaks “Lessons My Parents Taught Me” https://incmedia.org/lessons-my-parents-taught-me/ Three Lessons I’ve Learned Through Trusting God https://incmedia.org/worried-about-the-future-trust-god-instead/ Connect with us: Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

James Johnson grew up Baptist, surrounded by noise, chaos, and a home full of fear. He knew from the time he was a boy that something wasn’t right, not at home, and not in any of the churches his family took him to. So he did what most people never do. He kept looking. Church after church. State after state. Until God put the right person in the exact spot James happened to walk by. This is the story of a man whose chaotic childhood didn’t break him. But gave him the reason to search so deeply for God, for peace, and for a life with a deeper meaning. And how finding the truth didn’t just change his faith. It changed everything. Episode Timestamps 00:00               Born Into Chaos: The Errand That Changed Everything 01:24               Faith Speaks Callback: One Chance Encounter on a Ship 02:42               Growing Up Baptist in the South: No Foundation, No Truth 04:19               Church After Church: Loud, Chaotic, and Nothing Like Home 06:17               College Dropout to Navy: Out of 347 Ships, God Chose This One 08:21               Was It a Coincidence? James Answers That Question 09:59               What Made Him Stop: A 12-Year-Old’s Hunger for Truth 11:07               First Time in the Church of Christ: “This Is Where I Belong” 12:17               Driving 1 Hour 20 Minutes to Church for a Year 13:24               Why I Didn’t Like Going to Church as a Child 15:22               Domestic Abuse, Noise, and the Childhood That Drove Him to Search 16:01               “I Was Really Searching for Peace. Spiritual Peace. Knowledge of God.” 16:39               Would You Have Searched If Your Childhood Was Peaceful? 18:33               What Suffering Does to a Person’s Search for God 20:03               Reconciling Not Liking Church But Desperately Wanting God 20:51               Catholicism, Cathedrals, and Why He Cut That Out Too 23:25               Critical Thinking: The Survival Skill His Abusive Father Gave Him 25:28               Internalizing Everything: Nodules, Hospitals, and Almost Kicked Out 26:44               “How Did You Not End Up a Broken Soul?” 27:35               Always Had Faith. Just Didn’t Have the Foundation Yet. 31:19               First Worship Service: No Idols, No Chaos, Just Order 31:48               There Is No Black Church. There Is No Filipino Church. It’s True or False. 34:00               Bible Studies Begin: The Questions He Finally Got Answered 37:06               The Hardest Doctrine to Accept: The Last Messenger 38:29               “Completeness”: The Moment Everything Finally Lined Up 40:47               “Come as You Are” Means Come Broken. That’s How I Came. 41:38               Baptism Day: Robes, Nerves, and What Happened the Moment He Came Up 43:00               After Baptism, Life Got Harder. Here’s How He Held On. 44:08               Gun to His Head. A Bombing He Missed by 15 Hours. A Hurricane at Sea. 46:29               Loneliness Is a Pandemic. James Johnson Is Never Alone. 47:02               Problems vs. Challenges: A Military Counselor’s Perspective 49:06               “Who Listens to You?” God. Always God First. 50:52               12-Year-Old James to James Today: What God Did in Between 54:08               Why James Lives to Serve 55:18               “What Happened to You Is Not Your Fault. Healing Is Your Responsibility.” 56:35               What Does God’s Purpose Feel Like When He Saves You That Many Times? 57:03               How the Church Changed James Johnson 57:57               Why Change Is the Only Way Forward 58:33               “Why Me?” to “Why Not Me?” 59:21               The Photo. The Tears. 1 in a Million. 01:02:18          James’s Message to Anyone Barely Holding On 01:03:26          Hold On to God. There Is Nothing Outside the Church Worth It. 01:05:40          You Turned Trauma Into a Life of Service James spent the first part of his life searching. Surviving. Holding on to a belief that something real was out there even when nothing around him confirmed it. And then he found it. Not just peace. Not just answers. A life. One built on truth, on service, on a foundation that no amount of chaos could shake. That is what God does for the people who find him. Truly find him. I remember Brother Barry Thompson saying in his episode that if you truly want to serve God and you’re willing to do whatever it takes…He’ll guide you. He’ll lead you there. And this was definitely true in James’ story. If James’s story moved you today, share it with someone who’s still in the middle of their search. This might be the reminder they need to not give up. Mentioned in the episode: Seeker: When I Finally Stopped Saying No https://incmedia.org/seeker-when-i-finally-stopped-saying-no/ Ask your questions https://incmedia.org/contact/ Connect with us: Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Maria and her husband were doing everything right. God-fearing. Committed. Active in the church. And when their first daughter was born, life was exactly as planned. Then, four months later, Savannah’s heart stopped. What followed would test everything… their marriage, their faith, and everything they thought they understood about a God they had always trusted. And somewhere in the middle of the grief, Maria faced a choice: keep asking why… or start asking, “What do you want me to do now, God?” This is the story of what she did with that loss. And how, even 18 years later, Savannah is still changing her family. Episode Timestamps 00:00               She Lost the Gift: Why Savannah Is Still Changing Everything 01:42               Meet Maria: Three Teens, One Busy Household, and a Fourth Child Named Alex 03:42               18 Years Ago: A Perfect Pregnancy and a Life That Was Going as Planned 05:05               Day Two: When the Nurse Heard Something Different 06:25              Two Holes in Her Heart: The Diagnosis No One Expected 07:05               February to March: The Cold That Wasn’t Just a Cold 08:14               In the Choir Loft: The Night Everything Changed 10:23               “Your Daughter Had a Cardiac Arrest”: Still in Her Toga 11:17               Think Like a Nurse, Not a Mom: Maria’s Sister Steps In 13:25               The Prayer at SickKids: “If It’s Not Your Will, Help Me Learn” 14:44               “Your Daughter Is a Vegetable”: When the Doctors Finally Said It Plain 15:14               Letting God Take His Place: The Decision No Parent Wants to Make 17:34               Job’s Story, Holy Supper, and the Biggest Test of Her Faith 19:24               “I Want to Perform”: Choosing Duty Over Grief 21:12              The Last Thing She Would Do Was Let the Devil Win 22:13               What Kept the Marriage Together: Daily Prayer, Even When Tired 23:12               Get Your Ego Out, Maria: From “What Did I Do?” to “What Can I Do Now?” 25:56               The Purpose of Savannah’s Four Months 29:12               There Is Purpose to Pain: What She Would Say to Anyone at the Bottom 33:20               Keep Going: Going Back to Duty When You Just Want to Hide 37:11               “I Cannot Do This Without You”: Prayer as the Anchor 39:23               After Savannah: Trying Again and Holding Your Breath 44:40               My Three Kids Are My Promise to God 48:26               Church Activity Plus Ice Cream: Making Faith a Family Memory 50:40               Why Kids Leave: Questions That Never Got Answered 51:19               How Maria Stays One Step Ahead 53:41               You Can Be Successful and Still Have Nothing 55:19               I Want My Kids to Make It to Heaven to See Their Sister 57:52               My Daughter Said: “I Appreciate That You Stay and Listen” 1:00:06            Don’t Make God Your Babysitter 1:01:24            “Your Kids Only Have One Mom” 1:04:25            Care About Your Soul More Than Our Image 1:08:00            God Is Everywhere: Faith Isn’t Just for the Chapel 1:10:26            Two Different Parenting Styles, One United Front 1:12:11                        “Do You Still Believe?” The Question Maria Asks Out of the Blue 1:16:44            How Did Losing Savannah Change You? 1:18:01            Prayer, Space, and Coming Back Together: Advice for Couples After Loss 1:19:41            Rapid Fire: Food, Laughter, and the Questions She’s Not Ready For 1:21:07            Change Is: Growth, Humility, and Moving Forward It’s never about the circumstance. It’s about our response. And that’s exactly what we heard from Maria today. She didn’t choose the loss. She didn’t choose the test. But she chose what to do with it. And 18 years later, that choice is still showing up… in the way she prays with her kids, in the conversations she refuses to walk away from, in the way she fights for three children in honor of the one she couldn’t keep. Savannah was here for four months. But her impact continues to be felt. If Maria’s story moved you today, share it with a parent who needs to hear that the hardest seasons don’t have to break you. They can be the very thing that makes you fight harder for the people you love. Mentioned in the episode: Watch: Faith and Family: “What do you say to someone who lost a child” https://incmedia.org/what-do-you-say-to-someone-who-lost-a-child/ Read: Blog post: Devote Yourself in Prayer and See What Happens https://incmedia.org/devote-yourself-in-prayer-and-see-what-happens/ Connect with us: Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Jamie Santos had always wanted to be a mom. And when she finally got pregnant with her first child, it should have been the happiest season of her life. Instead, she found herself in a hospital bed — diagnosed with lupus, malnourished, and carrying a baby the doctors weren’t sure would survive. What happened next would force her to confront something she hadn’t fully seen until that moment: that every decision she had made in the years leading up to that hospital bed had been quietly moving her farther from God. Not dramatically. Not all at once. Just one seemingly tiny decision at a time. This is a story about what happens when you finally stop resisting. And what God does the moment you say yes. Episode Timestamps 00:00 Cold Open: A Blessing They Almost Said No To  01:23 Meet Jamie: Family, Faith, and the Dream of Motherhood  03:17 When Morning Sickness Became Something More  04:15 Critically Low: The Blood Work That Changed Everything  05:46 Sent to UCLA: The Lupus Diagnosis  07:16 Malnourished and Carrying a Baby Who Wasn’t Growing  09:06 The Emotional Weight of a Life Upended Overnight  14:36 The Appointment She Made — And the Shame She Still Carries  16:17 The Moment Her Husband Walked Into the Room  19:49 The Decision That Changed Everything: Why It Happened  22:11 The Pattern: How Every Step Away From God Adds Up  25:27 The Doctors’ Complete 180  29:06 The Birth 32:25 How Changing Her Prayers Changed Her Life  33:17 The First Time She Laid Eyes on Ezra  36:09 The Best Time to Stay Close to God  41:05 Would She Have Chosen a Lighter Path?  42:19 What She Learned About God Through All of It  42:33 Meet Ezra: Four Years Old, Social Butterfly, Living Proof  44:10 The Promise She Made to God  45:57 If You’re Going Through Something Right Now  47:24 The Second Pregnancy: A Gift After the Storm  48:30 The Full Circle: Back in the Choir  50:01 Same God, New Prayers: How She Faces Challenges Now  53:53 Life Without God: “I Would Be So Lost”  54:20 What She’ll Teach Her Kids  56:08 The Promise She Made  01:05:27 Renewing Your Mind: The Blueprint God Already Gave Us  01:07:15 For Anyone Who Feels Like They’re in That Hospital Right Now  01:09:11 Rapid Fire: Faith, Motherhood, and the Power of Prayer Jamie is so wise beyond her years. It’s amazing how clearly she connected the dots in her story and how she’s been able to track it back to a single, seemingly harmless decision.  And yes, she never intended it to be a permanent change. But even in that first year, she could already feel it inside her…the resistance.  Maybe you’ve felt that same way before? Because struggle doesn’t always start with a traumatic event. Sometimes it’s taking teenee, tiny steps away from the path God wants you to be on, even momentarily… and before you know it…you don’t even see how far off course you’ve gone. But God notices. Just like in Jamie’s story, He’ll use the difficult moments, the ones we’d never choose for ourselves to remind us that He’s there. Waiting to help. Waiting to rescue us. Waiting for us to experience His answer to our prayers. So if you’re feeling like you’re trying your best but things aren’t falling into place or maybe you know someone who is feeling God’s pull in a certain direction but is still resisting Jamie’s story will be a reminder to take a moment to reflect and see if you’ve stepped off the path God has laid out for you. Maybe there’s a change you’ve got to make too. Mentioned in the episode: Read: Teaching Kids to Love God Whom They Can’t See at incmedia.org Watch: How to Make Sense of Difficult Times on the INC Media app or incmedia.org Connect with us: Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Brother Shaughn Riley was 12 years old when a seating chart changed his life. It started with a friendship. Then a community. Then life-changing decisions that felt like no-brainer next steps. Quitting a job, getting on a plane, not going home for five years. None of it felt dramatic…to him. It just felt like the next step. That it was where he needed to be. In his own words: “This is just me. No big deal.” But hearing him look back at the quiet way God was arranging everything, it became clear that every step wasn’t coincidence or luck. It was preparation for the life God was laying out for him. This episode is for anyone who grew up with faith but hasn’t realized what God has been building in their life all along. Episode Timestamps 00:00 God Prepared Me: The Change I Didn’t See  01:12 A Seating Chart and a Simple Invitation  05:08 Friends, Sports, and Showing Up for Social Reasons  05:46 The Day He Started Actually Listening  07:44 Growing Up With God but No Questions  08:54 The Prophecies That Sealed Everything  11:25 Baptism at 17: Relief, Not Excitement  13:17 The Job He Quit Without Looking Back  17:57 The Friends Who Built His Foundation  19:45 What If He’d Never Met Rivera?  23:03 Brother Greg and the Class That Changed Everything  25:45 The Thought He Kept Trying to Push Away  26:38 March 17, 2014: Getting on the Plane  28:12 They Knew He’d Join Before He Did  29:10 Seeing the Central Temple for the First Time  30:34 Asking to Join the Ministry  30:46 That Same Feeling as Baptism  33:22 He Never Went Back Home  34:26 Culture Shock: How Am I Going to Survive  37:50 Prayer Was the Only Thing He Had  39:28 Why We Need the Hard Days  42:55 On the Other Side: Now He’s the One Doing Bible Studies  44:12 How the Ministry Changed Him  46:21 Too Young to Share Your Faith? Living Proof.  49:39 God Used an Army of People  51:56 I Just Never Looked at It That Way  52:17 Rapid Fire: Preparation, Just Do It, Change Is Good   Brother Shaughn spent over 20 years walking a path God had been quietly laying out. One friendship, one community, one open door at a time. He never saw it as remarkable. It was just his life. Just the next step. But that’s exactly how God works sometimes. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. Every friendship. Every open door. Every yes that barely felt like a decision. God was in all of it. Preparing the way. So if you’re in a season that feels ordinary, or if the changes in your life feel too small to matter, maybe they’re not small at all. Maybe you just haven’t looked back yet. If this episode moved you, share it with someone who needs to see what God has been doing in their life. Mentioned in the episode: Faith & Family Instagram https://www.instagram.com/faithandfamily.inc/  A Good Relationship Between Adult Children And Parents https://incmedia.org/a-good-relationship-between-adult-children-and-parents/  Listen to Dads with Autistic Kids: https://incmedia.org/dads-with-autistic-kids/ Interested in attending a Bible study in the Church Of Christ? Set a time to speak. Connect with us: Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram  Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Sigrid and Edwin Millare have been married 32 years. They raised two sons in the faith and made sure they knew God, knew right from wrong, and knew how to build a life worth living. And when those sons finally left to do exactly that, the house got quiet. Really quiet. Studies show that 40% of couples divorce when they become empty nesters. The kids leave, the shared purpose disappears, and suddenly two people who built a life together are looking at each other wondering what’s next. But Sigrid and Edwin had something most couples don’t, a marriage built on God’s words. And that foundation gave them new reasons to choose each other again. This is a conversation about the grief nobody warns you about, the marriage nobody thinks to protect during this season, and what it really means to let go and embrace the next stage God has for you. Episode Timestamps 00:00               Empty Nesters: When the House Gets Quiet 02:01               32 Years of Marriage: Meet Sigrid and Edwin 08:13               Sitting in Joshua’s Room: The Grief That Catches You Off Guard 12:45               What Do You Wish Someone Had Told You? 15:19               What to Tell a New Parent 16:08               The Reset: Getting to Know Each Other All Over Again 18:27               32 Years Later: What Did You Not Know About Each Other? 20:41               The 40% Statistic: What Keeps Faith-Based Marriages Together? 24:36               God’s Role in Their Marriage 25:23               Why Hard Times Are Necessary 28:35               Advice for Young Couples 33:36               Why Self-Awareness Saves a Marriage 37:49               Making Sure the Kids Stay Grounded After They Leave 48:03               What Would You Want Your Boys to Say About You? 52:59               Gentle Parenting vs. Strictness: The Bible’s Take 57:49               Pointing Your Kids Back to God in Everyday Moments 1:03:00            Rapid Fire: The Wedding Photo That Said Everything 1:05:33            Dream Vacations and What’s Next 1:07:03            32 Years of Wisdom 1:11:33            Change Is… Sigrid and Edwin weren’t prepared for how quiet the house would get. How a whole year could go by and the sadness just… stayed. Lingering. But somewhere between the sunsets on the patio, the Italian restaurants and their new hobbies… something shifted Not because they stopped missing their sons. They still do… But because they chose to look at what the change gave them… an opportunity to finally see what God had been building all along..in their sons, in their marriage, and in themselves. Sigrid and Edwin didn’t just survive this season. As empty nesters, they found the next version of themselves in it. If you’re in the middle of a change that you feel uncertain about…maybe even a little nervous, this is your reminder that bittersweet is still sweet. And that sometimes the life waiting for you on the other side of letting go is more beautiful than you can imagine right now. For more Making Changes, visit incmedia.org, the INC Media app, or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. I’m Aliw Garcia Pablo and may your change uplift you. Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Faith & Family Instagram https://www.instagram.com/faithandfamily.inc/ A Good Relationship Between Adult Children And Parents https://incmedia.org/a-good-relationship-between-adult-children-and-parents/ Listen to Dads with Autistic Kids: https://incmedia.org/dads-with-autistic-kids/ Interested in attending a Bible study in the Church Of Christ? Set a time to speak. Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

The Extra Chromosome That Changed Me Acelyne got the call at work. “Are you sitting down?” The doctor told her: trisomy 21. Down syndrome. The joy was “vacuumed out of her.” But that changed when she met Jaxson, 3 pounds, wired up in the NICU and in her words, perfect. Acelyne takes us through what happened after the shame—the NICU prayers, the school fight when Jaxson was disqualified twice from deaf school for ableism, and how a quiet, introverted mom found a warrior voice she didn’t know she had. This conversation is an example of what it means to stop praying for God to remove the battle and start trusting He prepared you for it all along. EPISODE TIMESTAMPS 00:00 The Phone Call: “Are You Sitting Down?” 03:48 Building Courage: “I Have to Be His Voice” 04:42 The Diagnosis Day: When Joy Was Vacuumed Out 09:40 The First Call Was to the Minister 13:25 Holding Onto 20%: Brother Neil’s Prayer 17:08 When the Heart Shifted: Second Trimester 19:18 Two Months Early: Jaxson’s Premature Birth 23:31 “He’s Perfect”: The First Moment 28:08 Whatever It Took: NICU Prayers and Prayers 34:43 Finding Out He’s Deaf—And Realizing God Prepared Her 36:02 The ASL Classes She Took Years Before 38:50 Teaching Him Prayer in Sign Language 42:47 The School Fight: Disqualified Twice for Ableism 48:33 Becoming the Warrior Her Son Needed 52:21 Little by Little: Seeing What God Wants Us to Do 54:26 “That Extra Chromosome Was Meant to Be” 56:24 What Pain Teaches: From Fear to Joy and Gratitude 57:31 Trusting God: Shaping Worries Into Prayers of Gratitude 59:33 Advice for Parents: Be the Voice They Need 1:01:31 How Trials Humble Us 1:03:19 If You Could Tell Your Pregnant Self One Thing: “Don’t Worry” Sitting there listening to Acelyne say, “That extra chromosome wasn’t a mistake—it was meant to be,” I kept thinking about those ASL classes she took years ago. How God was preparing her for a battle she didn’t even know she’d fight. Acelyne’s story is not about accepting a diagnosis or a future she didn’t plan for. It’s about realizing that God’s plans are far bigger than our fears. Yes, He gives us battles, but He also gives us the strength—and in Acelyn’s case, the courage—to fight them… if we’re willing to let God show us. And maybe that’s something God is waiting for us to do too. If Acelyne’s story moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Subscribe to Making Changes wherever you listen to podcasts. And remember—the battles God gives us are proof that He believes we’re strong enough to fight them. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you. Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Listen to Dads with Autistic Kids: https://incmedia.org/dads-with-autistic-kids/ Interested in attending a Bible study in the Church Of Christ? Set a time to speak. Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Spiritually Fed: From Starving to Finally Filled What happens when 19 years of unanswered questions finally get answered? Growing up in Houston, JyKeith witnessed violence, wore a mask of anger to survive, and asked questions about God no one could answer. Those questions followed him through childhood trauma and a suicide attempt in his Navy barracks at 19. When he accepted an invitation to the Church Of Christ, everything changed. “I felt like I was being starved for so long, and receiving the words was being filled. When you finally get to eat after being hungry, everything just looks so good.” Jykeith’s story shows how spiritual hunger can prepare you to recognize truth when you finally find it. Episode Timestamps 00:00 – Cold Open: “I’ve Been Starved for So Long” 02:00 – Growing Up in Houston: Violence and Survival 04:30 – Mean to Survive: Wearing a Mask to Stay Safe 07:30 – Supportive but Hard: Parents Who Pushed Him Not to Settle 10:00 – Age 11: The Question No One Could Answer 14:00 – The Bible Becomes His Escape 19:00 – Joining the Navy: Freedom Without Direction 22:00 – When Everything Falls Apart 24:00 – The Breaking Point: A Suicide Attempt at 19 26:30 – “Your Face Looked Empty”: The Supervisor Who Noticed 29:00 – An Ex-Girlfriend’s Challenge: Put Faith in God 30:00 – First Bible Study: Finally Being Present 33:00 – “How Do I Become a Member?” 36:00 – Southern Baptist vs. Church Of Christ: Structure Over Chaos 43:00 – “I’ve Been Starved”: Bible Study Every Day for a Month 46:00 – Persecution: Friends Say He Joined a Cult 51:00 – The Oxnard Community: Gentle Love for the First Time 54:00 – Baptism Day: Relief After 19 Years of Searching 56:00 – Being Called Young: “I Don’t Always Feel Worthy” 58:00 – How the Church Changed Him as a Father 1:00:00 – Six Sailors: From Saved to Savior 1:02:00 – “Change Is Necessary for True Growth” 1:04:00 – Closing: See Each Other a Little Better There were so many layers to JyKeith’s story. So many moments where we had to pause and peel back another layer to fully understand the positive, smiley man sitting in front of me. At the end, the person across from me wasn’t just someone who exuded positivity… but a young man fueled by gratitude for the life God led him to. Gratitude to parents who pushed him to not settle for the streets of Houston. Gratitude to the supervisor who noticed his troubled expression all those years ago. Gratitude to the INC members who not only helped him find his answers but also took him in as family. Gratitude to God… because he doesn’t have to live his life starved from the truth anymore. JyKeith’s story is proof that we may not always know the intricate layers of someone’s story, but we all have the ability to see them… to see the bits of them they’re showing us and recognize what they’re going through … and maybe even help them when they need it most. If JyKeith’s story resonated with you, or if you know someone who’s starving the way he was, share it with them. And if you’re currently struggling and need someone to talk to, reach out to a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. For more Making Changes, visit incmedia.org or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you. Watch Frank Busbee’s Faith Speaks: https://incmedia.org/god-gave-me-reasons-to-smile/ Want to study the Bible one-on-one? Visit incmedia.org/study-with-us Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host: http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Unexpected Widow: Life After Loss Kim Figer’s husband Jon Jon died suddenly and unexpectedly, making Kim a widow at 32 Hours after her husband’s death, Kim went live on Instagram to tell the world. For years, people wondered how. How do you navigate devastation and go to work the next day? Kim takes us through what life looked like after sudden loss — the low moments that brought her to her knees, and the unexpected miracles she saw in her life and her son’s when she finally let go. Kim’s story is a masterclass in what it means to surrender completely and see God’s guidance even in the wreckage. Episode Timestamps 00:00               Cold Open: “Why Does It Feel Like It’s Almost Perfect?” 02:28               How Have the Last Few Years Been? “Miracles” 03:09               The Post Six Days Before: “I’m Not Going to Be a Widow Early” 04:26               September 28th: The Two Weeks Prior Felt Almost Perfect 06:18               “I’m Feeling Dizzy.” Then He Lost Consciousness 08:05               Turning Trauma Into Prayer 11:26               Why She Went Live on Instagram Hours After His Death 13:37               Her First Prayer: “I Prayed for My Son” 15:16               Going Back to Work the Next Day 17:14               Why She Responded to Every Single Message for Four Days 20:04               The Prayer for a Child That Looks Like Her Husband 26:07               Why She Never Stopped Performing Her Church Duties 30:09               What Peace Feels Like: “I’m Able to Breathe” 32:39               The Closet Prayer: When She Didn’t Know the Right Words 34:16                “Thank You God for Giving Me That Time” 36:14               Why Sudden Loss Was Actually a Gift 41:16               Grandma the Deaconess: Anointing Oil for Five Months 44:51               “You Have Nothing to Lose When You Put Everything in God’s Hands” 51:52               “I Walk Hand in Hand with God” 55:30               “Grief Is Love with Nowhere to Go” 59:15               Her Prayer for Troy: “Give Him the Ability to Truly Know You” 1:07:42           Spiritual Muscles vs. Physical Muscles 1:10:18           Reading Her Birthday Post: “I Can Finally Breathe” 1:12:19           Hope for the Hopeless: “Don’t Give Up” 1:13:46           Change Is an Opportunity to Seek God 1:16:41           Rapid Fire 1:19:07           Final Word: “Change Is Opportunity” Hours after jonjon died, Kim went live on Instagram. And for years, I wondered why. Now I know. It wasn’t just about her grief. It was about everyone else who lost someone that day. A son who lost his father. A mother who lost her son. Friends who lost their friend. Even in that moment, Kim was already surrendering. Kim didn’t choose this change. But she chose how to respond. It wasn’t ever easy… some days she struggled, some days she found herself on her knees — but she kept responding. Surrender over control. Prayer over panic. Gratitude over bitterness. And in that surrender… that’s where she kept seeing the miracles. Like Kim says, Change is an opportunity. Opportunity to seek God in every moment of your life… even the ones that break your heart. If Kim’s story moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear that surrender isn’t giving up… it’s finally letting go and leaning on God to guide you where you need to go. For more Making Changes, visit incmedia.org or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you. Watch: How Do Christians Respond to Suffering – https://incmedia.org/how-do-christians-respond-to-suffering/ Losing a loved one suddenly? Watch Part 4 of the CODA series, “The Year of Change” – https://incmedia.org/growing-up-coda-a-year-of-change/ Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host: http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Seeker: When God Changes You Overnight “If you had a list of a thousand things that I would do with my life, being a minister was not even on the list.” After finding God at Church Of Christ, joining the ministry was the last thing he wanted. Everyone kept suggesting it. He kept saying no. “There’s absolutely no way.” Then came the overnight change. He went to sleep with zero desire for ministry. He woke up wanting to be a minister. “Literally going to sleep, not thinking about anything, waking up the next morning. I want to be a minister. What?” God changed his heart overnight. Years later, his son Dontae would not only join the Church Of Christ, but follow him into the ministry, something Brother Barry never planned. This is what happens when God rewrites your plans. If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, make sure to press pause and go back to part one. Episode Timestamps 00:00               Cold Open: “It Wasn’t Even on the List” 01:46               Daily Bible Studies: Soaking Up the Doctrines After Baptism 02:16               The Volunteer Preacher Program He Didn’t Want 03:07               “I Had No Desire to Join the Ministry” 05:41               The Overnight Calling: “I Want to Be a Minister” 07:43               How Do You Know It’s Really a Calling? 10:19               That Same Feeling From Day One: It Never Changed 12:17               “That’s My Wealth in My Life” 15:11               The Impact of Changed Lives: Why It Makes the Sacrifices Worth It 20:54               Bringing Up Dante: Exposed to Church from Age 4 22:04               Five Years in the Philippines: When Barry Left for Ministry Training 24:00               “Can I Come Out?”: When Dante Asked to Move In 25:19               Giving Him the Gist: The History of the World in 90 Minutes 26:29               Teaching Independence: “You Can’t Stay With Us” 29:51               The Lesson: Parents Have Great Influence on Children 33:06               The Formula: Work Hard, Pray Hard, Lead a Holy Life 36:18               “My Secret Weapon”: Personal Prayer to God 42:20               Over 30 Years in Ministry: How Has It Changed Your Life? 44:22               “I Don’t Have Any Desire for Anything Here on Earth” 46:42               Brother Rene Never Gave Up: A Thank You Message 49:44               Looking Back: The Two Groups of People 53:44               Why It’s More Important Now Than Ever to Draw Close to God 57:49               Advice to Those Born and Raised in the Church 1:04:33           One Thing You Wish Everyone Understood 1:07:28           Brother Dontae’s Video Message: “Thank You, Dad, For Everything” 1:09:47           Brother Barry’s Response: “I’m Proud of My Son” Sitting across from him today, watching him tear up over that video from his son, I realized Brother Barry’s story was not just about a seeker finally finding his answer. It’s about what happens when you let God change you. Because the changes we make don’t just affect us. They ripple out to everyone watching. Our kids. Our families. People we don’t even know are paying attention. And maybe that’s what we can all learn from Brother Barry’s story. We don’t get to see the full picture of what God is doing. We just have to trust that wherever He guides us, even when it makes zero sense, even when it’s to a place that wasn’t on our list of a thousand things, He’s writing a story bigger than we can imagine. If Brother Barry’s story moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. And remember, your change doesn’t just uplift you. It uplifts everyone watching. For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org, the INC media app, or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you. Watch https://incmedia.org/stories-of-faith/ Interested in attending a Bible study in the Church Of Christ? Set a time to speak. Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Seeker: When I Finally Stopped Saying No Brother Barry has had many labels in his life. Son. Jamaican. New Yorker. Navy man. Husband. Dad.  Minister of the Gospel. Host of Face the Truth. But if there’s one label that changed everything else. it’s seeker. This is the story most people don’t know about Brother Barry… the journey of a seeker who was looking for truth in all the wrong places, until God led him to the one place he did his best to avoid. Episode Timestamps 00:00               A Seeker’s Opening: “Could This Be It?” 02:15               Twenty Years in Media: How God Uses Technology to Spread the Gospel 08:20               Born in Jamaica, Raised in the Bronx: The Boy Behind the Minister 11:00               Two Parents, Two Churches: Growing Up Without Spiritual Roots 14:30               Religion as Rebellion: Why the Louder the Preacher, the Better 17:00               “Evidence That Demands a Verdict”: The Book That Confirmed God Was Real 21:30               Joining the Navy at 17: Chasing Structure After a Chaotic Childhood 25:30               Married at 19, Divorced at 20: When the Chaos Followed Him to California 28:30               The Club Epiphany: One Thought That Changed Everything 30:30               From Club to Bible: The Night He Became a Seeker 33:00               Enter Brother Rene: The Coworker He Kept Avoiding 35:30               Offended by the Truth 38:30               Every Church But His: Seeking Everywhere Except the Right Place 40:30               The Chaotic Church That Was the Last Straw 43:00               Talking to God Out Loud: “If You Exist, Show Me” 45:30               Going to Prove It Wrong: The Plan That Backfired 51:00               First Bible Study with Brother Joe Ventilacion: “What Is This?” 53:30               Couldn’t Sleep: The Night the Search Ended 55:30               The Chapel Was on His Route All Along 58:00               Obsessed: Never Missed a Bible Study After That 1:01:00            The Messenger Lesson: The Final Wall Comes Down 1:07:00            First Worship Service: Peace Like He’d Never Felt Before 1:08:30            Baptism Day: The Tears, the Injured Knee, and the New Life 1:12:30            Finally God’s son: What It Meant to Belong to God 1:16:00            All or Nothing: What It Really Takes to Seek God 1:22:00            What to Say to Seekers Who Say “That’s Too Hard” 1:27:00            From Seeker to the Pulpit: What happened next? Thirty-five years later, Brother Barry still tears up thinking about that first Bible study, the night he couldn’t sleep because he thought: could this be it? After years of a chaotic childhood, unstable homes, and churches that left him more confused than when he walked in, God led him right to the door he’d been passing every single day. But what he didn’t know was that his story was just beginning. Because God had a calling waiting for him that would blow up every plan he had for his young life. Now, if Brother Barry’s story spoke to you, or if you know someone who’s in the middle of their own secret journey, share this with them. For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org, the INC Media app, or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you. Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Watch Want to Find God? https://incmedia.org/want-to-find-god/ Interested in attending a Bible study in the Church Of Christ? Set a time to speak. Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Click to expand transcript Growing Up CODA: Transition to Adulthood Brother Ronnie David:  How do you tell your mom and dad you’re not going to be with them anymore? We both moved up closer to the chapel in Atlanta, but now, it’s not a two hour drive. It’s a 20 hour flight now, if you want to see us. Aliw Pablo: It’s part 2 of our episode with Brother Ronnie and Rowel David, who are CODA, or also known as Child of Deaf Adults. In this episode, we’ll be talking about growing up CODA and how that prepared them to be later called into the holy ministry. We’ll find out how they came to the difficult decision of leaving their parents, who are both deaf, behind. Brother Ronnie David: I was shaking. What I said was, you know, we’re going to be leaving, because we’re gonna go study in the ministry now. And I braced myself because, you know, I know this was a shock for her. We never talked to her about it. She didn’t even talk to us about it. It was never discussed it, we’re going to do this. Aliw Pablo: You’re listening to Making Changes, a show about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way, but always with God by your side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.  Today’s episode is perhaps one of the biggest life changes we’ve ever talked about. Brother Ronnie David: Her words will be etched in my mind forever, I will never forget. Right, Rowell? Aliw Pablo: Two young men who have been their parents interpreters all their lives—at the bank, in school, in the workplace, at Church.  Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel have been their parents’ advocates and liaison to the world. But despite their deep love for their parents, they decided to answer God’s call to enter  the holy ministry. The stories they will share may shock us but certainly inspire us, on what happens when we have a change in perspective. What happens when we put our fears away, when we replace fear with confidence and trust in God instead, so that we can make room in our lives for His plans? Let’s listen in. [Show open] Aliw Pablo: When would you say that you both started to feel the calling into the ministry? Brother Ronnie David: There was one worship service I do remember. And the minister did say one thing that really stuck out to me, which was, “Even if you’re thinking about it, that’s already a sign.” And I remember after the worship service saying, “I’m thinking about it right now. But does that mean it’s a sign, like, should I join now? There [were] three other brothers in the local [congregation] who are talking about it. And our resident minister announced it after the worship service: “If there are any brothers who would like to join, please meet us in the sanctuary this afternoon at three o’clock,” something like that. But I do remember that three o’clock though. All I remember is when I entered that door, I saw my brother on the other side. And you know what? At that point, I wasn’t surprised he wanted to join. But there’s a reason why when the minister mentioned years before, that if you’re thinking about the ministry, it’s a sign already, until now, until that point, why I didn’t join right away, it was because I was kind of worried about my parents. I mean, they are good and faithful, but like we mentioned earlier, they didn’t have the best kind of jobs, I’ll admit. It was very labor intensive. They spent a lot of hours just to be able to make ends meet. We didn’t have the best life. I’m not going to sugarcoat that; it was really rough. There were hard times. In my mind, I was like, “Okay, me and my brother, this is where we[‘ve] got to have the comeback story. We’re going to get great jobs, you’re going to provide them a great life, and, and we’re all going to have big houses. And we’re going to tell them, “Mom and dad, we did this for you. We love you, you know.” But that Sunday at 3 p.m., that was kind of a different idea at that point. “Okay, now who’s going to take care of mom and dad?” I remember looking at my brother. We didn’t say anything, though. We joined. The minister had us sign a form, or we all prayed after. And I just remember, me and my brother already discussing, “We’re not going to tell Mom and Dad yet.” I don’t know. Why didn’t you want to tell them, Rowell? Brother Rowel David: I think for me, personally, I think it was because who knows if this is even going to go through. And who knows if we would even get approved? You know, this is just a pre-application. And so because, just like what he said, we were worried [about] who’s going to take care of mom and dad. I’m sure you know, in a regular person’s (way of) thinking they would—as parents who are deaf, who depend on their children, they would probably think the same thing. And so for us, it’s like, why would I want to put them through the worry? this may not even go through. So it’s like, you know, I guess it was one of those times where it’s like, we’ll cross that bridge when it comes. Aliw Pablo:  But you both hadn’t talked to each other at all about the ministry until you saw each other at the chapel that day? Brother Ronnie David: Oh, yeah, no way. We never spoke about it at all. Aliw Pablo: So, tell us about how your parents found out that you’re both joining the ministry. Brother Ronnie David: Because they announced it after the worship service one day. They said, “Okay, through the guidance of the Church Administration, these brothers were accepted to join the holy ministry.” And they mentioned all the names. And you know what, for a local of less, a little less than 100 people at that time, a little less than 100 brethren, to send five brothers at one time. I was pretty…it was a lot.  You could look around, their parents crying, you know, aunties, uncles, friends, cousins. It was super emotional. The only ones who didn’t feel it were probably my parents. Because they’re looking around wondering, why is everybody crying? Did something bad happen? I remember telling, like, the others, please do not say anything to our parents. Because it was still in my mind, who was going to take care of them? I don’t want to… I didn’t even want to think about what we’re going to say to them. They eventually (found) out. I remember we were in the car, and my mother did bring it up. She said, “Is it true what I heard guys? Is it true you both went to join the ministry?” And, honestly, I think we were both speechless. We didn’t know what to say. Brother Rowel David: If you remember I turned around, I  looked at you and I said, “Did you tell her?” And then you turned around, you looked at me, and you said, “No. Did you tell her?” You know, and I don’t know for me, because (she’s) deaf, of course, she didn’t hear us say that. But we were trying to have a conversation, we’re trying to get our stories straight so that we can figure out how we can tell her. Brother Ronnie David: Then there was a mom on the side, “I know you guys are talking to each other. I see you.” Aliw: I see you talking about me. Brother Ronnie David: But I’ll tell you what though, it was just kind of… it was quiet. Because how do you tell your mom and dad you’re not going to be with them anymore? How do you do that? Especially when we’re young, I mean, I think I was still young. I was like, 21, my brother was 19. And I do remember, like, I was shaking. I did tell her. I said, “Mom, Dad, so…” I didn’t apologize, what I said was, “You know, we’re going to be leaving, because we’re gonna go study in the ministry now.” And I braced myself because, you know, I know this was a shock for her. We didn’t…we never talked to her about it. She never even talked to us about it. It was never discussed that we were going to do this. But her words will be etched in my mind forever. I will never forget, right, Rowell? She said, “You know, I always prayed for this. I always hoped you guys would join.” Brother Rowel David: I think at that point, it really, I’m sure I can say this on behalf of both of us that—that was the moment for us where it’s like, “If this is what they want, what’s going to stop us?” You know, what… there should be nothing that would stop us, you know. I remember we had a conversarsation. We were sitting there in the sanctuary and we were talking to ourselves and we were saying, you know, “Why did we even think that we could take care of them better than God?” Like, we were so worried about who would take care of mom and dad, you know. We’re trying to go to the ministry, and we forgot what they have been teaching us our entire life, which is that God is always watching you, and God will always take care of you. And so if they were taking care of them, if God was taking care of them, before we even came into the picture, what makes us think that they won’t be able to do it without us? Brother Ronniel David: You have to keep in mind, because the situation at the time was, we were both working not only to take care of ourselves, but we’re also still taking care of our parents. I mean, I even quit school, because I couldn’t afford going to school and taking care of the family, as well. So I took off time from school just to focus on working and saving a little bit more money. And at that age, too, you can only imagine how it’s unfortunate, but I (didn’t) remember this simple thing that our parents have been teaching us all our lives, which is that God is there, and God will take care of you, and trust in God. Brother Rowel David:  And that and that was always our answer. That was always our answer when people would say that, you know, who’s going to take care of your parents when you guys leave? We would always say, “God will. God will take care of them.” Because that’s what they taught us. That’s what they ta

Click to expand transcript Making Changes: Growing Up CODA (Child of Deaf Adults) Part 1 Brother Ronnie: And you know what, there is even one specific moment that I remember which is, the minister is giving—he’s wrapping up the lesson, he’s getting very spiritual; he’s giving the bayubay (advice).  Brethren are feeling it. And I look over at my mother, and I kid you not, she’s crying. And I don’t know why. I’m thinking, what are you hearing? What are you listening to? What were you getting from this?  Brother Rowel: You know, again as a child…what would go through my mind is, you can’t even hear, you know. Why is this important to you? Why does it matter? You can’t even hear. But as a child seeing that, and then finally being able to understand—it’s like, ok, let me stay awake maybe there’s a reason why.  Aliw: When I first learned about Brother Ronnie and Rowel David’s story, right away, I had so many questions. I was just so curious about how they grew up and became the people that they are now. You see, they’re brothers who are both CODA, an acronym for Child of Deaf Adults. They grew up in Georgia and are now both ministers of the gospel in the Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ.  Brother Ronnie: I remember asking her afterwards, like, Oh, why are you crying? What did the minister say? And she said, “I don’t know, but I felt something. I was feeling something. And it made me feel like crying.” Brother Rowel: When me and my brother would talk about it, we would always say they really did worship, depending on the Holy Spirit, you know. Brother Ronnie: It’s one of the biggest lessons we ever got from them. And again, they never explained that to us. They never said anything about the Holy Spirit. They never put that into words but it’s based on the way they live, that’s how we learned it.  Aliw: From INC Media Audio, you’re listening to Making Changes, I’m Aliw Garcia Pablo. Today’s episode format is a bit different. This is a 2-part series where we’ll sit down with Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel to see what it was like to grow up CODA and how that shaped their faith. This 2 part episode is so layered as you will see and feel. It’s about the struggle of growing up CODA, love for their parents but also the frustrations from the perspective of two young boys whose lives were filled  with setbacks and struggle.   Let’s listen in… Aliw: Hi, Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowel, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us.  Brother Rowel: Thank you, Sister Aliw. Brother Ronnie: Thank you so much. Aliw:  We’ll start off by asking, what would you say? At what age, would you say that you realized that your home life was a little bit different from the rest of your friends in school or wherever? Brother Ronnie: It didn’t really hit me all at one time. It just kind of, eventually, I understood that our situation growing up is very different from other people. Like, for example, when we would go to the grocery store, and we’d help our mom pay. You know, we’d give the cashier the money, or if we have questions, we would talk for our mother. Same thing with going to the doctor’s office—my mother would want to tell the doctor something and the doctor tells us to tell our mom and we’d tell our mom. And then even when he came to school. The teachers are telling us okay, I need to talk to your parents, which have home phone numbers, I can call them. They call us later on, and I’m the one answering the phone. So, it was a gradual thing, I don’t think it was a specific age, but, the longer or the more we grew up with our parents the more I realized it really is different from other people. Bro. Rowel: For me growing up, I thought that everyone did sign language to their parents. I mean, yes, we had aunts and we had uncles, we had grandma and grandpa that we would speak to but for some reason, you know, of course, the mind of a child growing up, you just think, yeah, but when it comes to your parent, you do sign language. And so, you know, finding that out, noticing that about the other children, how they would speak to their parents, you know, it obviously showed me that it was different. But you know, the crazy thing is that, yeah, I noticed it. But then right after it was like, okay, we’re just different, you know? My situation isn’t like their situation. Bro. Ronnie: It’s funny because you kind of forget you’re doing sign language. You don’t even know you’re doing sign language anymore. We could literally just be talking to our parents and switch over to just talking or voicing out our opinions or whatever. It’s all one language at one point so… Aliw:  So, let’s back up a bit and give you a bit of their background. Their parents, Raquel and Ramon, were both born deaf, they met in the Philippines, got married in the Church and their mother migrated to Georgia first where the rest of her family were. We all know how hard it is to start a new life in a new country but how much more not being able to hear. Their parents both understood and signed Filipino Sign Language, but not ASL or American Sign Language. The brothers have some memory of what it was like for their mom.  Brother Ronnie: And back then, you know, websites, chat rooms, or Skype, all that didn’t exist. So, she really just kind of stayed at home. Her life was more like just observing things. It wasn’t really a community, (or) communicating with people, socializing, or talking to people, she would meet deaf people along the way, here and there. But there was still that lack of communication because they could never keep up with each other. They didn’t have phones or whatever, she didn’t have her own cell phone at the time. So, it was more on her just watching and looking, just waiting. My father…he came along a couple of years later on… Brother Rowel: My parents, when it comes to them, they’re—a very good trait they have is that they’re able to adapt to a lot of people, a lot of situations, and be able to find their way through. For example, our mother, she may be speaking with someone, and they don’t know sign language, but she’ll find a way to get her point across. It wasn’t until, of course, me and my brother, (when) we came along, that’s when she started using us just to make it easier. But even before then, yes, she had our aunt, our uncles and our grandparents, but if they have to do something, they would find a way to be able to (get) by. Aliw: So, would your mom write what she needed to say? And then just show it to people? Brother Ronnie: Exactly. She always had a paper and pen on her. Here’s a crazy experience she had. I actually remember her telling me about this. So, I’m the firstborn. And my mother—she wanted to go visit my father back in the Philippines again. She traveled to the Philippines by herself. You know, going into an airport with me, talking to the stewardess, trying to find out what her gate is. And you know how hectic an airport can be… Aliw: Right!  Brother Ronnie:… And going transferring from this flight to this flight. And still, until now, it gets me, how was she able to do that? I mean, she didn’t have a cell phone. She didn’t have a—she didn’t text anybody. Because she was able to get to the airport there in the Philippines and still from there, find my family without a phone or anything. Aliw: Yes, that—just finding those that will pick you up is so hard with the crowds of people.  Aliw: So growing up, you saw that your parents, your mom, specifically, never used her disability as an excuse. Brother Rowel: Even though after, you know, that process of finally understanding that they’re different. Even after that, she would always tell us, “No, I’m normal. I’m normal, I just can’t hear.” That’s what she would always tell us.  Brother Ronnie: It’s funny even until now, I don’t think she would consider that as a disability. Brother Ronnie:  So, she would teach us the normal things like drink water, or go clean, you know, clean the dishes, or go home apples, stuff like that. My brother’s favorite: food, you know, stuff like that. But it’s funny because my aunt’s, my uncle’s, I want to say, they don’t really know sign language like that. I want to say they don’t really know that well, but they can all talk, they can all fight, they can all laugh, they can do everything like regular siblings. Aliw: Their parents were simple people with humble but demanding jobs in the small town of Milledgeville, Georgia. Their dad worked as a furniture mover; their mom, she worked at the local hospital cleaning clothes. But both parents, despite being deaf and couldn’t speak, made sure their two boys were raised well.  Aliw: Okay, so when you are in , as little boys, you know, how were you disciplined as little kids  with you know, most parents would yell, they’d get mad? What was that for you? Bro. Rowel:  I’d say it’s very, you know, it’s one thing to get loud. Especially as a kid, it’s one thing to hear your parents get loud, but to see it, like to actually see it because they’re all, it’s all visual with them. It’s all facial expressions. And so when they’re mad, like you could you could put a wall in front of us. And you could tell by our voice, you’re mad, but then seeing it face to face? Oh, it’s scary. It is. But you know, I will say this, you know, not trying, you know—of course, we weren’t angels growing up, we were boys growing up playing around here and there. But I’d like to say that she didn’t—both my mother and our father—they didn’t really have to discipline us too much. But I feel like that’s because our mother really put the fear of God in us. My mom would always tell us, I may not be with you, but God sees you. You know, she would always say that. Brother Ronnie: I ha