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Send Fan Mail by Text! This is a bonus episode of The Tango Waits For You, a 3-part audio documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes. Episode 4: Night of Spirits -  LB Tango hosts its first ritual milonga for the greater LA tango community, in celebration of Dia de los Muertos. Episode References “Tar Liom Siar,” written and performed by Moya Brennan, Lynne Earls, and Cormac de Barra. Produced and recorded by Lynne Earls, from the album Timeless.  Long Beach Tango https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango Altar Milonga (Photos by Andrei Andreev) https://www.sharnafabiano.com/altar-milonga Elena's Elixirs https://elenaselixirs.com/ Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co. https://altarsocietybrewco.com/ Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager [email protected] Wisdom of the past (by Elena's Elixers) Ilegal Joven Mezcal • Largo Bay Coquito Liqueur • Cacao Liqueur • Fresh Lime Juice • Ancho Reyes Chile Liqueur • Egg White • Aztec Cacao Bitters Garnished with fresh nutmeg and floating marigold From the high deserts of Oaxaca to the sun-warmed shores of the Caribbean, this cocktail traces an invisible thread through the Americas—where every region honors those who came before. In Mexico, marigolds (cempasúchitl) carpet the paths for Día de los Muertos. Guatemala flies giant barriletes for Día de Todos Los Santos. Bolivia shapes bread into guaguas de pan for Día de Todos los Difuntos. Peru, Ecuador, El Salvador—each has its own name, its own ritual, yet all share the same November vigil. This drink brings together ingredients with no obvious reason to meet, yet they dance in surprising harmony. Un Abrazo Final (by Elena's Elixers) Tequila Reposado • Malbec • Fresh Lime Juice • Grenadine • Araceli Marigold Liqueur • Fernet-Branca Sea salt rim, finished with a spritz of rose and marigold for fragrance On Día de los Muertos, the veil between worlds grows thin. The living and the dead draw close—not in sorrow, but in celebration, in one final dance of remembrance. This cocktail honors that tender moment when memory becomes presence, when those we've lost feel near enough to touch. Salt crystallizes like tears along the rim. Fernet-Branca whispers bitter truths of departure. Grenadine holds the sweetness of stolen moments, while Malbec bleeds with the complexity of love and loss. Tequila and marigold become golden of Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! This is a reverse interview with my coaching colleague and former teacher Amy Lombardo, originally recorded for Amy’s podcast, Human Not Hacked.   Through the lens of dance, art, and embodied practice, this conversation challenges one of our culture’s most persistent illusions: that power means control, and that growth requires constant self-improvement. In this soulful conversation, Sharna and Amy unpack what happens when we stop trying to master ourselves and instead learn to move with life, not against it. Together, they explore how the anti-self-help philosophy—the heart of Human Not Hacked—intersects with Sharna’s groundbreaking work on leadership and followership. From the dance floor to the boardroom, they talk about what it means to lead with presence, to follow with awareness, and to allow space for the unexpected. They also dive into how control shows up somatically: in the body, in relationships, and in the subtle ways we tighten around our desire to “get it right.” Sharna shares her lived experience of unlearning the toxic self-help conditioning that tells us we must be endlessly optimized, productive, and emotionally contained. She speaks candidly about the courage it takes to unhook from those narratives, to honor our imperfections, and to build a new relationship with power—one rooted in responsiveness, humility, and connection. Sharna also reflects on her experience in the Brilliance Coaching Academy, discussing how the training helped her shed the “shoulds” of performance-based leadership and reconnect to her authentic voice as a coach and teacher. About Amy Amy Lombardo is the founder of the Brilliance Coaching Academy and author of the award-winning book Brilliance. With more than 25 years of experience as a coach, leadership mentor, and yoga teacher, Amy weaves together somatic practices, deep listening, and inclusive leadership tools to guide people into authentic transformation. Her work is rooted in the belief that each of us has an inner brilliance waiting to be expressed—and that when we nurture it, we change not only our own lives but the world around us.  Amy Lombardo https://amylombardo.com/ Brilliance Coaching Academy https://coach-brilliance.com/ Human, Not Hacked: The Anti-Self Help Podcast https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-human-not-hacked-the-anti-297892497/ Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes. Episode 3: Community -  We start teaching two simultaneous classes, add a monthly práctica, and the group dynamic takes on a life of its own.   Episode References Altar Milonga: Night of Spirits - Monday, Nov. 3 https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango Tango Resources & LB Tango Schedule https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co. https://altarsocietybrewco.com/ Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager [email protected] Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes. Episode 2: Altar Society -  Partnership with a local venue provides an opportunity for Long Beach Tango to expand and grow.   Episode References Tango Resources & LB Tango Schedule https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co. https://altarsocietybrewco.com/ Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager [email protected] Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes. Episode 1: The Dream -  After being retired from tango for seven years, Sharna meets four locals at a coffee meetup who want to learn to dance.   Episode References Tango Resources & LB Tango Schedule https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tango Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co. https://altarsocietybrewco.com/ Mike Cokley, Altar Society General Manager [email protected] Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! In this episode, Sharna shares her own history and experience with tango as a social dance form. It’s a reverse interview with Actor and Director Dan Istrate, who has been a guest on the show twice before. They talk together about Sharna's discovery and rediscovery of tango, and about what makes tango so compelling for so many people. “There’s a weight within this dance, within this concept, that speaks for itself.”"Tango comes like a revelation in one’s life and you just know it.""There was some kind of way that this particular form was changing me on all levels and that’s what made it feel so necessary and inevitable.""You bring yourself to it and it's scary in a way but then it's so beautiful when you really connect."More with Dan Istrate S3 E3: Connected Social Conversations – Dan Istrate https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/14781194-connected-social-conversations-dan-istrate S1 E15: Lead/Follow Relationships in Live Theater Performance - Dan Istrate https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/9621693-lead-follow-relationships-in-live-theater-performance-dan-istrate Connect with Dan Istrate www.danistrate.com Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Dr. Maike Kugler shares her research on followership as voluntariness, a specific way of understanding followership behavior. She also speaks on the need to both expand and deepen followership research to account for a wide range of cultural contexts, variations of language and meaning, and relational dynamics, in order to fully understand the phenomenon of followership in organizations and beyond.  “[Followership] is not something that’s defined in a book, but it’s something that happens between people. It’s a social thing. So it really depends on the expectations that both parties have.”“Followership in one situation can be different than followership in another situation.”“Culture and context are most underrated in current followership research.”“I’d like to see articles that define what followership means in that article, a wider range of methods, more exploration of foundational understanding, and all of that in a more context and cultural sensitive mindset.”  Episode References  "The (In)voluntary follower," Martin Blom and Mikael Lundgren https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1742715019888078 "Following the beaten paths: a systematic literature review of followership behavior," Maike Kugler and Ruth Sims  https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/jmd-10-2024-0359/full/html S1 E4 – Influence of Followership Behaviors on Organizational Success - Ruth Sims https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/8516582-influence-of-followership-behaviors-on-organizational-success-ruth-sims  S3 E6 - The 4 Tiers of Followership - Eric McDermott https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/15254928-the-4-tiers-of-followership-eric-mcdermott Connect with Maike Kugler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-maike-kugler University profile: https://www.ehip.eu/hochschule/team/professoren/prof-dr-maike-kugler/ Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Dr. Karen Perham-Lippman shares her research on destructive leadership patterns in the tech industry, and the response of various types of positional followers in those companies. Her findings include the behaviors of Challenger followers and their communities of coping that give rise to positive acts of self-restoration and collective resistance. “Challengers were revealed not just as individual followers who wanted to resist destructive leadership as part of their personal integrity or their moral belief about a thing but as a social process.”  “If you can find a group of folks who can help you sort out the true from the false and help you acknowledge that what you’re experiencing is real, then that community of coping is not just about coping, but about giving you the agency to do something about it.“You see over and over and over that performance outcomes and efficiency goals are being prioritized over employee well-being.” “Destructive leadership is a genetic mutation that’s a disease in an organization. It’s toxic. It spreads like a virus. You can’t let it do that.” About Karen Dr. Karen Perham-Lippman serves as Senior Manager of Global Inclusion and Belonging at Otis Worldwide Corporation. As a pracademic and mission-driven business strategist with nearly fifteen years of demonstrated strategic and process thinking results in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), ESG, and social impact, she has worked with nonprofits, state government, municipal clients, and businesses across diverse industries and sectors globally. She currently serves as Co-President of the League of Women Voters South Hampton Roads in Virginia and was appointed to the State League’s DEI Committee.  Karen is a Certified Diversity Professional and holds a certificate in designing equitable courses from the Association of College and University Educators (ACUE). She earned her Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in Organizational Leadership and Business Management from Eastern University, where she received the College of Business and Leadership's 2025 Student Service Award presented to a graduating student who has exemplified the college and doctoral program's ideals of leadership and scholarship on and off campus through significant contributions to the field. Karen’s scholarship is published with Ethics International Press, Emerald Publishing, Forbes, Merits International Journal, and SAGE Publishing. Her forthcoming book, Bridging Generations: Transformative Intergenerational Leadership and Followership, will be available from Emerald Publishing in Spring 2026.   Episode References ILA Global Conference in Prague Connect with Karen LinkedIn - for general connections ResearchGate – for research updates or to collaborate  Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Chris Monö is an author and consultant based in Sweden known for his innovative concepts of "natural followership" and "collaborationship." He has spent nearly two decades exploring leadership and followership from a follower’s perspective, and in this episode we discuss several of the powerful ideas in his new book, Why We Follow: Natural Followership in a World Obsessed with Leadership. If you missed the first interview with Chris back in Season 2, I strongly encourage you to go back and listen to that one first, since it provides a lot of background and will make this new episode more intuitive and useful. “Most people just want a group to work, and that’s a group with a shared objective, working together to achieve a goal. When you have a group like that you don’t need someone to guide them.”“While we can try to manipulate people into obeying us, true followership is always in the hands of the followers.” “It’s the group that’s supposed to make things happen and they just use the leader as a tool to get there and I think we need more of that mindset because that’s really what a democracy is.”  Episode References: Why We Follow: Natural Followership in a World Obsessed with Leadership, by Chris Monö https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Follow-Followership-Leadership/dp/9198847325  S2 E21 - Natural Followership - Christian Monö https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/13838983-natural-followership-christian-mono  Global Followership Conference http://www.followershipconference.com Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Thomas Rieser is the owner of Nou Tango, a tango studio in Berlin, Germany that just celebrated its 20-year anniversary. In this episode, he shares his perspective on how simple yet powerful tango exercises, can be shared outside the world of social dance in supportive group settings to bring healing and joy in surprising and delightful ways. Over the past 20 years of teaching and organizing, Thomas has developed a focus on combining the individual development of each student with the requirements of a group. The individual person is at the center, and at the same time he encourages an active effort of everyone involved to create a social culture. He sees this as a reflection of the core, heart and potential of tango. “[Tango] is something that touches you emotionally and at the same time you don’t really know why.”“People see something [that] they don’t know exists, which is physically, spatially, and emotionally connecting to one another and being able to move in a way that is just magical.” “I don’t think it’s magical. I just think the body can do much more than the mind allows it.”“Being in a group setting where you open yourself and be present, your body takes over, and when you let your body take over, you can grow.”   Episode References  Nou Tango Studio https://noutango.berlin/  Tango Connects Conference https://tango.connects.berlin/  S4 E1 - Leading & Following in the Tango - Veronica Toumanova https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/16416925-leading-following-in-the-tango-veronica-toumanova "Efficacy of Tango Argentino for Cancer-Associated Fatigue and Quality of Life in Breast Cancer Survivors: A Randomized Controlled Trial" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37296883/ Connect with Thomas Rieser FB: https://www.facebook.com/Thomas.Rieser LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-rieser/ Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Ashton R. Cooper is an assistant professor of higher education in the School of Education at the University of Cincinnati. In this episode, he shares his research on the participation of White activists in the South in the Black-led Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, as well as insights into the lead and follow role switching of White activists from a recent paper titled "Antiracist followership: rethinking social justice leadership in education." Ashton's research and teaching seek to disrupt educational practices that are harmful to individuals and communities, and to empower practitioners and scholars alike to imagine and work toward equitable and inclusive futures. Doing so, he infuses his coursework with lessons in leadership and followership to model reciprocal and community-oriented learning.  As a researcher, he uses historical and narrative methods to understand and explore followership as it relates to disrupting systemic oppression and building diverse justice-oriented coalitions. "In the case of my study, it really positions White activists as followers of the civil rights movement.""In the study of leadership as a whole, not only do we become romanticized with leadership in general, we fall back to this idea of great men, and the notion of great men being that of those men who are forged in whiteness.""It is less about what we can do to lead the charge but instead turning to the people who are being affected and ask 'how can I be of service to you?'""Learning how to put [yourself] in other people's shoes is really important to the act of followership." Episode References Ashton R. Cooper (2024) Antiracist followership: rethinking social justice leadership in education, Whiteness and Education, DOI: 10.1080/23793406.2024.2433952 Helena Liu, Redeeming Leadership: An Anti-Racist Feminist Intervention. Bristol University Press, 2021 https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/redeeming-leadershipRobert M. McManus and Gama Perruci, Understanding Leadership: An Arts and Humanities Perspective, Routledge, 2015 https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Leadership-arts-humanities-perspective/dp/0415728738 Say Burgin, Organizing Your Own: The White Fight for Black Power in Detroit, NYU Press, 2024 https://nyupress.org/9781479814145/organizing-your-own/   Connect with Ashton Cooper Email: [email protected] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashton-cooper-phd-13595816/ Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Tango artist Veronica Toumanova shares her insights from 20+ years of learning, dancing, and teaching tango in both roles, how tango social dance communities are evolving in Paris, Europe, and beyond, and what tango has to teach about leading and following possibilities in life and work.  Veronica has been dancing tango since 2000 and actively teaching and performing since 2007. She has Russian origins, but started dancing tango while living in The Netherlands. She has worked with different partners, performing and teaching in France, Sweden, Norway, UK, Italy, The Netherlands, Cyprus, Greece, Germany, Czech Republic, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Switzerland, Canada and USA. Veronica is an elegant dancer with a strong personality and a refined sense of music. She has extensive knowledge of both the follower and the leader’s role and is especially known for her in-depth technique classes. She is also a popular tango blogger, her essays on tango are translated in eighteen languages and she has recently published the second volume of her “Why Tango” essay collection. “Tango puts you into a context where you have to revise this understanding [of lead and follow] and realize that it is not about command and obey but it is more about having a conversation.” “In tango, you learn that true leadership is way more about listening and understanding the other person… and following is way more about taking a deliberate decision to collaborate with your leader.” “The real question is ‘how can we remove the violent component of what we now understand as leadership?’” “I think we as a humanity have misunderstood following, because following for me is flowing. I flow intuitively with whatever the situation is creating in me as a response.”   Episode References Tango Connects Conference (Organising Team: Thomas Rieser, Veronica Toumanova, Juliana Thutlwa, Almut Knauß, and Stefan Knauß) http://tango.connects.berlin/  Thinking Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555 Connect with Veronica Website - https://verotango.com Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@verotango Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/veronica.toumanova Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Lately, I’ve been thinking a lot about the need to get away from digital life and back to in person life, and as beautiful as it is to connect online with folks everywhere, it’s also really important to be in both the same time and the same place with others in a full body way.  So in 2025 I’m planning to teach more in person tango classes. And for the podcast, I plan to bring you more interviews with tango artists sharing their wisdom on embodied leading and following. In the meantime, I thought I would read for you the Preface from my book, Lead & Follow, which tells a condensed version of my tango origin story. If you haven’t yet picked up a copy, this will give you a sense of where my perspective on leading and following comes from.  Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork is available anywhere you buy books. If you’re ordering from outside the US, I recommend betterworldbooks.com – they ship to nearly every country. Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Dr. Ron Riggio has a uniquely broad and deep perspective on the evolution of followership research over the past two decades. He is the Henry R. Kravis Professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and former Director of the Kravis Leadership Institute at Claremont McKenna College, where the very first followership conference took place back in 2006. In this episode, Ron shares his thoughts on where the followership community has been and where it is going, as well as his own current work to expand the research on followership and its relationship to leadership. Learn about his current work and collaborations including the anatomy of followership, implicit peer theory, storytelling methodologies, and more. “When we put the term leader on something in our western culture, we sort of raise it up and kind of put it on a pedestal, and that leads to the follower being downgraded, and we need to change that.”“The traditional way is to say well the leader does something… and the followers perform, and we’re saying it doesn’t really work like that… it’s a collaboration.”“By focusing on follower identity and the role of followers, people don’t default to ‘the leader knows best.’” “If I’m looking at my co-follower, and saying, this is my ideal co-follower, there may be some clues in their for what ideal follower behavior looks like.”  Episode References Claremont McKenna College https://www.cmc.edu Art of Followership, by Ronald E. Riggio, Ira Chaleff, & Jean Lipman-Blumen (Eds.) https://www.amazon.com/Art-Followership-Followers-Leaders-Organizations/dp/0787996653 Global Followership Conference http://www.followershipconference.com  Liu, Z., Riggio, R.E., Reichard, R.J., & Walker, D.O. (2022). Everyday leadership: The construct, its validation, and developmental antecedents. International Leadership Journal, 14(1), 3-35. Beenen, G., Todorova, G., Pichler, S. & Riggio, R.E. (2022). Reconceptualizing multilevel leader-follower shared outcomes. Journal of Leadership and Organizational Studies, 29(2), 289-305. https://doi.org/10.1177/15480518221094481 Riggio, R.E., Lowe, K.B., & Levy, L. (2023). Why are followers neglected in leadership research.Organization Development Review, 55(3), 44-48.  Riggio, R.E. (2014). Followership research: Looking back and looking forward.  Journal of Leadership Education, 13, DOI: 10.12806/V13/I4/C4   Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text! Dr. Alain de Sales currently teaches at the Queensland University of Technology’s Graduate School of Business (GSB) in Brisbane, Australia. In this episode, he describes a recent educational project he coordinated for a group of MBA alumni, analyzing patterns of destructive leadership in the 2024 US presidential election cycle. Back in Season 1 of the podcast, I interviewed Alain on his then and still groundbreaking PhD research on how courageous followership actions can interrupt and prevent the worst outcomes of destructive leadership actions – that episode is called Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive leadership. If you haven’t already, I suggest listening to that one first, before this one. It’s a detailed discussion of Alain’s theoretical work that will make this episode's real-time case study make more sense.  GSB is among 1% of business schools worldwide to have triple accreditation for excellence from the world's leading accrediting bodies. At GSB Alain teaches leadership (and followership) nationally in the Executive MBA, MBA, and Public Service Management programs along with other executive education programs.  “That’s the biggest challenge - you don’t get a big flashing neon sign: ‘Hey, destructive leadership here! Warning, turn back!’ It’s more akin to that old analogy of the frog in boiling water.” “When we look at the ultimate outcomes, if we can collectively say they’re not good, we’ve got to think differently, behave differently, no matter how uncomfortable that might be.”“If we can’t agree on basic facts, we will never change the way we believe and therefore the way we behave.”“One of the ways to increase trust in government is to increase transparency.”“We need to have an award system that publicly recognizes whistleblowers and encourages people to do that.”Episode References S1 E8 – Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Sales Queensland University of Technology’s Graduate School of Business Art Padilla, Robert Hogan, Robert B. Kaiser, “The toxic triangle: Destructive leaders, susceptible followers, and conducive environments,” The Leadership Quarterly, Volume 18, Issue 3, 2007 Project 2025 Presidential Transition Project, The Heritage Foundation https://www.project2025.org/  Join or Die - documentary film https://www.joinordiefilm.com/ Ira Chaleff, To Stop A Tyrant https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Tyrant-Political-Followers-Leader/dp/1637560567/ Support the show * Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano https://www.sharnafabiano.com Order the book: Lead & Follow https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/ Support the Show! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support