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“If we are to see a recovery of trust and integrity, it will demand a radical reorientation in how we form leaders, how we imagine success, and how we live our lives before God and one another.” That’s a quote from Chuck DeGroat’s new book, Who You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age. Karl Vaters talks with Chuck about how to identify some better ways to approach the concepts of success and character development. This is essential, but slow work, especially in an age that often pushes back against it. Chuck is professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary. He has served as a pastor, has founded two church-based counseling centers, and is the author of several books, including the one he and Karl talk about in this episode. Links: Chuck’s X post about pastoral search requirementsChuckDeGroat.netWho You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic AgeWhen Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual AbuseThe Worst Scandal I’ve Seen in 30 Years (from Chuck’s Substack) Bonus Content SummaryFour Conditions for a Sacred Ripening, with Chuck DeGroat Chuck DeGroat defines “ripening” as the slow, consistent work of Christian maturation. There are four key biblical conditions that must be met for this to be achieved, and in this short bonus material, Church walks us through them: SafetyElderingCommunityA Sacred Story This is all from Chuck’s recent book, Who You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters and Dale Sellers have good news and bad news for you. The good news is that pastors are staying in their churches longer than ever before. The bad news is that pastors are aging and there aren’t as many young pastors coming in. This makes pastoral and church renewal more important than ever before. Dale Sellers is the Executive Director of The Renewed Pastor, which is the new name and mission for what was the 95 Network. He and Karl talk about the moments of ongoing personal and ministry renewal that need to happen regularly, and about those larger transitional renewals that seem to come up about every seven years or so. Dale will also describe the one-year Renewed Pastor Pathway that utilizes the life experiences of pastoral coaches who have been through tough times themselves, and how you can utilize their expertise for the blessing and benefit of you, your family, and your ministry. Links: Why 95Network is Becoming The Renewed PastorThe Renewed Pastor Where to find Dale on social media: Instagram: @DaleSellersSaysX: @DaleSellersSaysLinkedIn: Dale SellersFacebook: Dale Sellers To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

What if you could use the hard work for the sermon you’ve already done, then leverage it for an even greater online impact? Well, you can. And it doesn’t take technical wizardry to pull it off. Karl Vaters interviews Ed Stetzer and Corey Alderin about how tech has become so user-friendly that it can be used in ways that used to be available only to large churches. Ed has been a leading voice for the evangelical church for many years, and he’s an avid supporter of small churches. Corey is the CEO and founder of Sermon Shots. As any conversation with Ed Stetzer tends to do, this conversation leads down a few fascinating rabbit trails, as well, including: How to use tech so that it doesn’t interfere with the in-person worship experienceThe importance of using online video to make a first-time visitor feel more welcomeHow online algorithms have changed the way people see your content And more. Links: Sermon ShotsKarl Vaters and Ed Stetzer talk in the van To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Is online church, real church? I used to say online church is real church, it’s just not enough church. But I’ve changed my mind. Live streaming came into our lives in a big way in 2020, and now after living with it for six years, we can look at it with a little more wisdom and objectivity. In this solo podcast I talk about how and why I changed his mind about church live streams, plus some better ways to approach it, including: Why online church is not church, it’s contentHow we may be sending a bad message about church with our online experienceHow the presence of a live-stream camera affects the pastor and the people in the roomHow it changes the way we structure our servicesHow to give everyone a better online experience without live streaming And more. Links:Maybe You Shouldn’t Live-Stream Your Church Service, with Tim Fox (Ep 62)We’re All Televangelists Now (11 Ways To Avoid The Pitfalls Of Live Stream)Karl Vaters on the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership PodcastContact Page for Karl Vaters

Karl Vaters interviews pastor Ryan Lokkesmoe about a problem many pastors are facing in their churches, even if they haven’t been able to identify it yet. Many of our church members are accidental pagans. Karl and Ryan talk about how so many ancient pagan practices have made their way into many of our lives today—without us knowing it, turning many good Christians into accidental pagans. This affects their lives, how they act in church, what they expect of it, and most importantly, how they view God and their relationship with him. Ryan is the lead pastor of Community Church at Lake Wylie, a congregation in the Charlotte area, and is the author of several books, including his newest, Accidental Pagans: Untangling the Roots of Our Fears about God — and Discovering Who He Really Is. Links:Accidental Pagans: Untangling the Roots of Our Fears about God — and Discovering Who He Really IsRyanLokkesmoe.comTeam Leadership: Lessons from the Apostle Paul, with Ryan Lokkesmoe (The Church Lobby, Ep 046)NETBible.org

Karl Vaters talks with Nathan Meador and Heath R. Curtis about how to take a more Bible-based and holistic approach to stewardship in the church. It’s not a plea for finances, it’s a basis for a healthy church, life, and ministry. Based on Nathan and Heath’s book, Stewardship: For the Care of Souls, this conversation focuses on tending well to everything God has entrusted to our care. Especially as pastors, this includes the congregation we’ve been entrusted to serve, and all the responsibilities, challenges and joys that go with this calling. Their conversation includes several penetrating insights, including: How stewardship and the care of souls are related to each otherHow repentance plays a key role in stewardshipHow a pragmatic theology of stewardship is not stewardship at allHow to change the culture so that stewardship focuses on more than the survival of the institution Links: Stewardship: For the Care of Souls Bonus Content SummaryHow to Preach on Stewardship, with Heath R. Curtis and Nathan Meador In this subscribers-only bonus material, Karl Vaters talks with the co-authors of the book, Stewardship: For the Care of Souls about their three main approaches to preaching/teaching about stewardship in a fast-changing culture, where the annual tithing sermon just isn’t cutting it anymore. Together, they discuss the approaches of: The lectionaryThe sermon seriesLectio continua To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

How do you start a YouTube channel at the age of 81, and reach 25K subscribers in less than 6 months? That’s what pastor Mike Bayer did. Now he’s at over 44K subscribers, and it’s providing him with a second source of income in his later years of ministry. Karl Vaters talks with Mike about how he made YouTube work for him, plus: The importance of intentional ministry to senior adultsHow to use your church’s YouTube channel for better engagementIdeas for making an income outside the walls of the churchMinistry adjustments for the fourth quarter of life And more. Links:Old Me Living Better: YouTube ChannelOld Me Living: Skool channelMike’s Facebook PageSnugSafe.comThe Aging Pastorate: Sam Rainer on the Looming Pastoral Retirement Crunch (Ep 128) There is no bonus content for this episode. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters interviews Todd Wilson about some of the lessons that we need to learn when we look back at the Church Growth Movement. Todd is the co-founder and founding CEO of Exponential, so he critiques the Church Growth Movement as one of its leaders. This gives him a unique perspective we need to hear. Karl and Todd talk about the content of Todd’s new book, How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement. They cover topics such as: How the modern church has adopted a Consumer-Driven Operating SystemHow Donald McGavran’s Church Growth methods and language were co-optedWhere the “church as business” model came fromWhat must come nextAnd more. Links:How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement (Free e-book w registration)How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement (On Amazon)Multipliers: Leading Beyond Addition (Free e-book)Email Todd at [email protected] Unexpected Origins of the Church Growth Movement, with Dr. Gary McIntosh (The Church Lobby, Ep 027)De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next (by Karl Vaters) Bonus Content Summary12 Dilemmas Within the Church’s Prevailing Operating System, with Todd Wilson In Todd Wilson’s book, How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward, he refers to the current church systems as functioning under a faulty operating system, and he describes 12 dilemmas within that system. In this subscriber-only content, Karl Vaters talks with Todd about several of these dilemmas. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

“What's wrong with being just a normal church?” That’s the question at the center of Thomas Austin’s song, Normal Church. In this episode, Karl Vaters interviews Thomas Austin about the content of his song, including where the idea for it came from, some of the criticism he’s received for it, and what message he’s trying to convey through it. Some of what comes through in this conversation includes: Thomas’ love for the churchHis (and Karl’s) desire to see normal churches not try to be something they’re notThe problems that happen when normal churches try to copy the megachurch modelThe desire for authenticity among younger generations And more. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Discontent is a tricky monster. It’s so easy to spot it in others, but easy to overlook in ourselves. Karl Vaters interviews pastor Chris Maxwell about what contentment is not (laziness or mediocrity), what it is (an inner peace), what causes so much discontentment, why contentment is essential for healthy lives and ministries, and so much more. This is based on the content of Chris’ new book, Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours. Bonus Content SummaryHow to Practice Contentment In Our Calling, with Chris Maxwell Karl Vaters talks with Chris Maxwell about 6 simple steps we can practice to overcome discontent and embrace the inner peace of contentment, including” Redefine SuccessEmbrace LimitsCelebrate the OrdinaryStay Curious, Not CompetitiveLet Joy Lead YouStay With God, Not Just the Goal This is based on the content of Chris’ new book, Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours. Links:Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours.The Bible Project To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Kevin Foster is the founding pastor of LifeBridge Community Church in Fresno, CA, a church that made a radical shift in emphasis several years ago when the brokenness of the people in their lower income city led them to run to the brokenness. Karl and Kevin talk about: Redefining success in ministryHow young leaders are not rejecting ministry—they’re rejecting the narrow definitions they’ve seen modeledA new way to look at church metricsHow to finance ministry to broken people and a lot more. LinksRun to the Brokenness: How Your Church Can Be the Center of Your CommunityRuntotheBrokenness.com Bonus ContentHow to Overcome the Occupational Hazards of Ministry, with Kevin Foster Karl Vaters talks with Kevin Foster about the hazards of ministry that so many pastors experience, and how to overcome them. They include: 1) Becoming a Casualty of Others’ Brokenness 2) Leading Through the Tension of Frustration 3) Comparing Yourself to Other Churches Kevin is the founding pastor of LifeBridge Community Church in Fresno, CA, and the author of Run to the Brokenness: How Your Church Can Be the Center of Your Community. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about some massive changes that are happening, and how the looming pastoral shortage will affect everything about the way churches function in the next generation or two. Based on Sam’s article, The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff, this conversation covers what caused this crisis along with some hopeful solutions including the rise of bi- and co-vocational ministry, opportunities for interim pastor ministry, the importance of planning your pastoral succession, and so much more. Links: The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff (article)Church AnswersChurch Answers University certification programCalendlyKarlVaters.com/OnDeck Bonus Content How To Prepare Your Church for Your Pastoral Retirement, with Sam Rainer Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about what you can do prepare your church if you’re a pastor who’s set to retire soon, including the following three proactive steps: Evaluate your leadership pipelineCreate flexibility in your staffing model.Honor and utilize experienced pastors. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter. Mentioned in this episode: On Deck Landing Page

Prayer is a foundation of a healthy Christian life and church. Karl Vaters talks with Chris Paavola about four strategic ways his church prays that can help any church lay a more solid foundation for health. The foundation of this conversation is a talk Chris gives to pastors, titled 4 Ways Small Churches Can Grow in Prayer. Sunday Intercessory PrayerPrayer ServicesPrayerwalkingA new way to take prayer requests This last point comes straight from the Bible using the for/that method. It can make your church prayer request times feel less like gossip and more like the time of connection and intercession they’re meant to be. Chris Paavola is a pastor in Battle Creek Michigan who has written and spoken extensively about prayer, including Pray What You See: A Five-Week Prayerwalk Challenge. Bonus Content One Statement, One Question: The Power of a Simple Witness in a Complicated World, with Chris Paavola Karl Vaters talks with Chris Paavola about how the resurrection of Jesus changed (and still changes) everything, especially to cut through the clutter by bringing unbelievers into the real reason we believe what we believe. One Statement: “That’s not why I believe.” One Question: “What do you think happened on Easter morning?” Links: PrayForYourChurch.com @chris_paavola on Instagram @chris_paavola on X (Twitter) Using AI To Find Great Sermon Illustrations, with Darrell Stetler (Ep 111) Books: Pray What You See: A Five-Week Prayerwalk Challenge 25 Prayers to Christmas: Praying through the Christmas story 52 Prayers for Your Church: Because there's so much to pray The Seven Symbols of Ash: An Interactive Ash Wednesday Experience Less for More: Seven fasts in seven weeks for more of Jesus 40 Prayers to Launch: 40 prayers to help people pray for your church plant’s launch To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about three important subjects: First, they talk about the new world of the “side hustle” culture, and why it can be an answer for pastors and churches to do more ministry with less stress. Second, the importance of creating margin in our life, our finances, our time, our energy, and our families. Third, Tim introduces us to the importance of time away from the church, the value of travel, and how to do this well without adding an additional financial burden, through the lessons he's learned about travel hacking. Tim is the pastor of Restored Church in Wilkes-Barre, PA, and runs the Travel Multiplier website. Links: Travel MultiplierSeats.aeroPoint.meThe Church Lobby, Ep 86 with Tim Walker There is no Bonus Content for this episode. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Shaunti Feldhahn and Dr. James N. Sells about the state of mental and emotional care in our culture, and how churches are uniquely situated to alleviate these needs in healthy, life-giving ways. The conversation focuses on the CARE strategy (Coordinated Attention, Restoration, and Encouragement), and how churches of any size can be better equipped to help, starting with renewing friendships, training a CARE coordinator, and more, based on the content of their book, When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis, which was named one of Karl’s top books of the year for 2025. Links: When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health CrisisCARE Pyramids IllustrationsMy Top Nonfiction Books Of 2025When Hurting People Come to Church (Free first chapter)The Church Cares InitiativeThe Church Cares KitCulture Making: Recovering Our Creative Calling (by Andy Crouch) Bonus Content Three Key People Every Church Needs to Help Hurting People, with Shaunti Feldhahn & James N. Sells Your church doesn’t need a licensed counselor to help people with emotional needs. Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Shaunti Feldhahn & Dr. James N. Sells about the three key people every church should have in place to help the hurting people who come to every church. This conversation is based on the content of their book, When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis, which was named one of Karl’s top books of the year for 2025. To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.