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This episode explores how Leitner, Bragg and Griffin grew from a close-knit partnership into a regional North Carolina law firm by putting culture, trust, and people first.  Managing partner Tee Leitner and partner Ellie Bragg share how their firm started with a simple goal: build a place people actually want to work. From there, they expanded across criminal defense, civil litigation, family law, and unique political and local-government disputes. You’ll hear why they still value general practice, how niche cases like public meetings law and sheriff disputes helped build credibility, and why spouse buy-in, leadership, and Friday-at-2 culture matter just as much as case strategy. Build the firm on trust, not ego Use general practice as a foundation Grow into niche work after the basics are strong Hire for culture fit and leadership potential Protect work-life balance to improve retention Let strong service fuel referrals and reputation If you lead a law firm or want to start one, this conversation shows why culture is not a soft issue, it is the operating system that drives growth, retention, and client experience.

Jo-Anna Nieves shares how she built a growing criminal defense firm by focusing on profitability, not just revenue. Kevin Daisey digs into the decisions, systems, and mindset shifts that helped her scale while staying selective about the work her firm takes on. In this conversation, Jo-Anna explains how the Nieves Law Firm operates across six locations with a hybrid team of about 50 people. She also breaks down why she targets higher-value violent felony cases, invests in automation, and uses transparency to keep her team aligned. In this episode you'll learn: Why top-line revenue can hide weak profitability How case type selection changes margins Why bad-fit clients drain time and energy How weekly metrics meetings improve accountability Why automation should remove manual work, not people How YouTube and media exposure can accelerate brand growth For law firm owners and managing partners, this episode is a practical look at how to grow without losing control. If you want better margins, stronger team performance, and a more scalable firm, Joanna’s approach offers a clear roadmap. Chapters (00:00:00) - Intro and profitability teaser(00:01:09) - Welcome and guest introduction(00:02:45) - Nieves Law Firm overview and growth(00:04:43) - Making the Inc 5000 list(00:05:26) - Profitability over top-line revenue(00:07:30) - Pricing, case types, and targeted marketing(00:09:39) - Identifying ideal clients and red flags(00:11:13) - Niching down and leaning into expertise(00:12:44) - Avoiding bad-fit cases and sales lessons(00:14:49) - Delegation and staying out of casework(00:15:58) - Stages of ownership and 2027 optimization goals(00:18:14) - Building an automation team(00:20:13) - Client experience expectations and adapting(00:21:55) - Growth culture and team opportunity(00:24:02) - Transparency with financial numbers(00:26:07) - Weekly huddles and anonymous surveys(00:27:41) - Company events and team feedback(00:28:29) - Loving the numbers and finance meetings(00:29:14) - Overcoming fear and implementing advice(00:30:03) - YouTube growth success story(00:32:17) - Speed of implementation and coaching value(00:33:32) - Just start: podcasting and content creation(00:34:37) - Brand mentions, SEO, and third-party credibility(00:36:22) - Wrap up and how to connect with Joanna

This episode dives into what it really takes to build a lasting law practice, from courtroom discipline to firm leadership. Don Marcari shares hard-earned lessons from more than four decades in law and over 200 jury trials. Kevin Daisey and Don also get into the tension between technology and human connection, why trust still matters in every client conversation, and why some legal rules are still deeply unfair to plaintiffs. In this episode you'll learn: Why trial success starts with knowing every fact and preparing for the unexpected How body language, listening, and rapport still shape outcomes in law Why AI can help the profession without replacing personal connection How Virginia and North Carolina contributory negligence rules affect recovery What Don learned from the real case that inspired A Few Good Men Why law firm owners must treat their practice like a business For managing partners and firm founders, this conversation is a reminder that legal skill alone is not enough. Growth comes from strong systems, trusted relationships, and a business mindset that supports the work. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Intro: AI and the Importance of Human Connection(00:01:01) - Welcome Back Don Makari(00:02:21) - Don's Background and Firm Growth(00:05:17) - Lessons from 200+ Jury Trials(00:08:34) - Technology, AI, and Preserving Personal Connection(00:11:06) - The 1% Rule and Contributory Negligence(00:12:54) - Public Perception of Lawyers and Lawsuit Reform(00:15:25) - The True Story Behind A Few Good Men(00:21:31) - Movie Trivia and Reflections(00:22:33) - Advice for Young Attorneys and Running a Law Firm Like a Business(00:26:20) - Closing Remarks and How to Reach Don

In this episode, Kevin Daisey and Amber Wanner dig into why law firms are still losing cases at the first phone call. The big question is simple: should intake be handled by AI, a call center, or a real person who can build trust fast? Amber shares how her background in tech recruiting led to building a gig economy platform for live phone intake, designed to connect callers with trained humans instantly. They explore why empathy, local knowledge, and lived experience can matter more than speed alone. They also break down how the model can save firms money, improve retention, and fit both large and smaller practices. Why callers trust a real person more than AI How gig workers can handle intake on flexible schedules Why law firms can save money with pay-per-call intake How scripts, transcription, and case management updates work Why after-hours intake is a strong starting point How empathy can improve conversion and retention For managing partners, this episode is a practical look at intake, client experience, and what really happens when a potential client calls your firm. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Cold Open: AI or Human? A Real-Life Test(00:00:54) - Intro to the Managing Partners Podcast(00:01:24) - Meet Amber Wanner(00:02:45) - Amber's Background in Tech Recruiting and Gig Economy(00:04:12) - Founding Israel: Human Connection vs AI Call Centers(00:06:37) - How the Gig Economy Model Works for Intake(00:07:58) - Why Human Empathy Matters in Legal Intake(00:09:31) - Custom Scripts, AI Integration, and Local Networks(00:10:57) - Matching Gig Workers to Calls in Real Time(00:12:19) - Testing the Model: Trials and Cost Savings(00:14:38) - Beta Program and Building Custom Use Cases(00:15:31) - Why Real People Beat AI for High-Stakes Calls(00:17:34) - Revisiting the Idaho Story and Trust(00:18:27) - The Pullback Against All-AI Solutions(00:19:27) - First Impressions and Brand Impact(00:19:55) - Serving Firms of All Sizes(00:20:43) - Creating Community Jobs and Flexible Income(00:21:46) - Differentiator: Love as a Business Strategy(00:22:38) - How to Connect with Amber and Get Isreal(00:24:17) - Closing Thoughts and Extra Opportunities

Hiring is one of the hardest parts of law firm growth, and this episode breaks down why. Kevin Daisey and Daniel Struna of Atticus get real about the tension between urgency and intentional hiring. Daniel shares why so many firms wait too long to hire, then end up making rushed decisions under pressure. He introduces the “humble, hungry, and people smart” framework and explains how culture, core values, and fit should lead every staffing decision. In this episode you'll learn: Why “hell yes or no” is a useful hiring rule How humble, hungry, and people smart predicts team success Why hiring under duress leads to bad decisions When to hire before you think you need to How culture creates a bench of future candidates This conversation is especially valuable for managing partners and firm owners trying to scale without breaking their team or their standards. If staffing has been messy, this episode gives you a clearer way to think about it. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Intro and Hell Yes Hiring Rule(00:00:51) - Welcome and Guest Introduction(00:01:51) - David/Daniel's Background(00:05:46) - What Is Atticus and Who It Helps(00:10:12) - The Four Foundations of a Law Firm(00:11:20) - Why Staffing Is the Hardest Foundation(00:13:49) - Culture, Core Values, and Hiring Books(00:16:09) - The Ideal Team Player: Humble, Hungry, Smart(00:19:23) - Real Examples of Hiring Mistakes(00:22:36) - Emotional Intelligence and Self-Awareness(00:26:34) - Building Culture to Protect the Team(00:29:59) - Hiring Under Duress vs. Building a Bench(00:35:01) - When Should You Make Your First Hire?(00:37:02) - Capacity Drives Revenue Philosophy(00:41:00) - Investing in Hires Like Investing in Property(00:44:12) - Planning Ahead: A Real Estate/Office Space Story(00:46:30) - Value of Coaches and Community(00:48:13) - Closing Thoughts and How to Connect

This episode explores how Bryce McPartland built a personal injury law firm on his own terms. He and Kevin Daisey dig into what it looks like to choose a practice, a place, and a lifestyle that actually fit the way you want to live. Bryce shares his path from small firm work to opening his own practice, then expanding across Washington and into Idaho. He also explains why remote leadership, intentional office placement, and a strong team have helped the firm keep growing. In this episode you'll learn: Why Bryce knew it was time for a new boss How farming shaped his patience for personal injury work Why office location can affect search visibility and client convenience How core values like creativity, curiosity, consistency, and courageousness guide hiring Why people, not just systems, are the hardest part of firm growth How curiosity and abundance help law firm owners keep improving For managing partners and law firm owners, this conversation is a practical reminder that growth does not have to follow a traditional model. If you want a firm that performs well and supports the life you want, this episode offers a clear blueprint. Chapters (00:00:00) - Intro and Welcome(00:02:19) - Bryce's Journey to Law and Starting His Firm(00:05:53) - Firm Locations and Expansion in Washington(00:07:36) - Living Remotely While Running the Firm(00:09:58) - Brick and Mortar vs Online: Office Strategy(00:12:40) - Choosing Submarkets Over Big Cities(00:17:04) - Challenges: People, Mistakes, and Growth(00:19:53) - Core Values and Hiring for Culture(00:23:25) - Personality Testing and Team Dynamics(00:26:05) - Anonymous Surveys and Employee Feedback(00:30:22) - Starting Out: Taking the Leap and Building Referrals(00:35:20) - Networking, Resources, and Building Relationships(00:38:30) - Closing Thoughts and Final Advice

This episode is all about how a niche law firm can grow fast without sacrificing client care. Kevin Daisey talks with Shannon Laymon-Pecoraro of East Coast Elder Law about the systems, staffing, and branding decisions that helped her build quickly. Shannon shares how her business background, niche focus, and commitment to staying personal with clients shaped her firm’s growth. She also explains why AI can help some workflows, but why her senior client base still needs real human contact. In This Episode You'll Learn: Why hyper-niching can help a law firm scale faster How Shannon built a seven-figure firm with a lean team Why elder law requires personal service, not just automation How she uses systems like Claude without overrelying on AI Why “highest and best use” is central to delegation How personal branding and community presence compound over time This episode is especially useful for law firm owners and managing partners who want practical ways to grow, delegate, and market more effectively. Shannon’s story is a clear example of how strategy, consistency, and client experience can drive real momentum. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Growing Your Firm(00:00:44) - Starting a Law Firm(00:01:22) - How to start a law firm with three offices(00:04:43) - What Makes a Niche?(00:06:53) - Grow Your Firm: Part 3(00:10:36) - Will AI Replace Your Law Firm?(00:15:56) - Bradley: On Delegate Time(00:22:17) - Can I Compete With My Firm?(00:26:29) - Married Businesswoman on Starting Her Own Firm(00:31:10) - A Coast Attorney's LinkedIn Message(00:33:34) - Grow Your Firm With This Podcast

Kevin Daisey sits down with criminal defense lawyer Jason Goldman to talk about the realities of running a boutique litigation practice in the age of AI. The big question: how do you get more efficient without sacrificing judgment, preparation, or the human side of lawyering? Jason shares how his background as a Brooklyn prosecutor shaped his aggressive, trial-focused approach and why he often handles cases across state lines. He also breaks down how he uses AI as a support tool, not a replacement, especially for transcripts, templates, and appellate prep. In this episode you'll learn: Why AI should help lawyers get 50 to 70 percent of the way there How Jason uses AI for long transcripts and appellate issue spotting Why trial prep still requires old school case review Why criminal defense intake still needs a real person How referrals and one-on-one relationships built Jason’s firm For managing partners and solo attorneys, this conversation is a practical reminder that the best firms combine speed, technology, and trust. If you want to scale without losing your edge, this episode is worth your time. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Will AI Help You Pick the Right Case?(00:00:46) - Welcome to The Managing Partners Podcast(00:01:38) - Lawyer at Law: Introducing myself(00:03:12) - Have You Forced Your Lawyers to Travel Out of State?(00:04:51) - Law Firm Talk: AI and the Future(00:10:38) - Getting your Firm AI Ready to Work(00:12:40) - Are You Using ChatGPT or CLAUDE for AI?(00:13:49) - Are You Using Artificial Intelligence in Your Practice?(00:17:03) - Starting a Firm: Pro Tip for New Lawyers

Merritt Farmer and Kevin Daisey get real about what it actually takes to grow a law firm in a hypercompetitive market. The big takeaway: growth is never finished, and the firms that scale are the ones that keep adapting. Merritt shares how he built the Farmer Law Firm in Charleston, South Carolina, why he started looking beyond traditional marketing, and what led him into the Pilma ecosystem, conferences, podcasts, and new tools like EvenUp. The conversation also covers why law firm owners need more than ads, including better operations, intake, client experience, and team structure. In this episode you'll learn: Why law firm growth is a moving target How to evaluate when your firm needs better systems, not just more leads Why smaller firms benefit from joining peer groups and attending conferences How AI tools can support efficiency without replacing legal judgment Why SEO, intake, and operations all have to work together How Merritt is thinking about the next attorney hire and future scale This episode is valuable for managing partners and law firm owners who want practical ideas for growth, not theory. If you're trying to scale without losing control of the firm, this conversation offers a grounded look at what comes next. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Does Your Business Need to Grow?(00:00:42) - Managing Partners: Merit Farmer on the Podcast(00:02:00) - Meet Merritt Farmer and the Farmer Law Firm(00:03:54) - How to Grow Your Firm with PELMA(00:11:48) - How to Keep Your Business Growing(00:14:29) - How to Get Out of the Law Firm Marketing Space(00:21:22) - The Future of Law(00:24:33) - The Future of AI in the Legal Industry(00:31:43) - How to Refer a Lawyer to the Farmer Law Firm

This episode shows how a law firm can turn community presence, niche positioning, and podcasting into real business growth. Kevin Daisey talks with Alex Limontes about the marketing moves that helped his firm stand out in Indiana. Alex shares how he built a practice through Spanish-language service, grassroots outreach, and consistent visibility in the community. He also explains how a podcast, video content, and sponsorship activation created trust and even led to one of the firm’s biggest cases. In this episode you'll learn:  Why speaking the client’s language builds trust faster than translation How to use community events, festivals, and local sponsorships to stay visible Why podcasting helps control your message and generate referrals How one podcast clip and a geofenced campaign turned into a major case Why consistency and cadence matter more than perfection How to activate sponsorships instead of just buying them For managing partners and law firm owners, this conversation is a practical blueprint for turning brand, content, and community relationships into measurable growth. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Podcasts Have Made Money(00:00:51) - Managing Partners Podcast(00:02:48) - Owning a Law Firm in Indiana(00:07:07) - How to Build a Law Firm Podcast(00:09:27) - How to Gain a Community Connection in the Hispanic Community(00:15:42) - Interviewing Lawmakers on My Podcast(00:22:04) - How to Talk to Lawyers on a Podcast(00:26:20) - How to Talk Business on a Podcast(00:29:12) - Private Injury Law: Sports Sponships(00:34:26) - How to Build a Community on Podcast & Social Media

In this episode, Kevin Daisey discusses the realities of leading a modern law firm with Seth Bader of Bader Law. They explore how the legal industry’s rapid changes require firms to adapt quickly to survive and thrive. Seth shares lessons from his journey since 2008, highlighting the importance of building a strong brand, scaling efficiently, and maintaining service quality amid growth. Seth Bader, a seasoned trial lawyer and founder of Bader Law based in Atlanta, Georgia, delves into how his firm managed growth from a small boutique to a sizable operation, emphasizing the challenges and opportunities this brings. They discuss the significance of using technology, outsourcing, and AI to optimize workflows without compromising the client experience. In This Episode You'll Learn: How market forces and technology are reshaping legal practices The importance of maintaining a clear brand as you grow Strategies for managing a hybrid workforce including U.S. and international support Why flexibility and quick decision-making are crucial in today’s legal landscape The role of traditional branding and community engagement in modern marketing This episode offers invaluable insights for law firm owners aiming to grow sustainably, adapt to technological shifts, and build a resilient, client-centric organization. Chapters (00:00:00) - On the Cost of Doing Business(00:00:37) - Managing Partners: Seth Bader(00:02:04) - In the Elevator With Seth Bader(00:02:44) - "You're Going to Fail"(00:03:19) - The Need for Global Support(00:05:09) - Marketing Executive: The Cost of Doing Business(00:06:58) - Finding Talented People is Hard(00:13:14) - How to Keep on Top of Change at Your Business(00:15:18) - Top Marketing Executives: The Best Channel(00:20:50) - Protecting Your Brand as a Small Firm Grows(00:25:20) - Small Business Owners: Challenges(00:27:12) - Law Firm Business Talk

In this episode, Kevin Daisey hosts Jon David Huffman of Poole Huffman, LLC to explore how intentional leadership and culture shifts can transform a legal practice. Jon David shares his journey from feeling stagnant to embracing a growth mindset, emphasizing the importance of transparency and consistent values in fostering a thriving firm culture. Kevin and Jon David discuss practical strategies such as leadership training, regular communication, and valuing team contributions that help promote engagement and accountability. They explore the challenges faced in transforming skeptical lawyers into advocates of change and how valuing honesty boosts loyalty across the organization. This episode offers actionable insights into creating a firm where growth and integrity go hand in hand. Law firm owners and managing partners will gain perspectives on how to lead with authenticity, build strong teams, and cultivate a positive, forward-looking culture. In This Episode You’ll Learn: The importance of leadership training in law firms Strategies for instilling transparency and core values How to shift from success-driven to significance-driven leadership Practical tips for fostering a culture of accountability The role of consistent communication in culture development Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - A message about the culture(00:00:43) - Managing Partners Podcast: Think Bigger(00:02:00) - Immigration and Business Litigation Partner Introduction(00:04:02) - Growth at the Firm(00:10:02) - What's It Like to Hand Off Your Job?(00:11:25) - What's the Way to Get Your Team on Board with Growth?(00:15:06) - 4 Core Values of the Business(00:20:09) - In the Elevator With John David(00:21:58) - Top 5 books of the year(00:23:17) - How Are You Working With AI in Your Practice?(00:26:28) - David Huffman on Starting His Own Firm in 2026(00:29:31) - John and David on The Leadership Path

Law firm growth comes with unique challenges and stories, as Mason Rashtian shares. From navigating the courtroom to walking away from bizarre cases like rattlesnake attacks and trash can mishaps, Mason’s journey is both inspiring and enlightening. In this episode, Mason discusses his transition from defense work to running his own personal injury practice near Los Angeles. He sheds light on the importance of maintaining ethics, leveraging podcasts for networking, and the value of niche specialization. This episode is packed with real stories, candid insights, and practical advice for law firm owners who want to grow authentically and avoid common pitfalls. Whether you're considering expansion or refining your practice, Mason’s experiences offer invaluable lessons. The importance of ethics in legal marketing How podcasts can build referral networks Crazy cases that showcase firm flexibility Growing at a sustainable pace Navigating legal industry misconduct Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Billboard Lawyers: The Biggest Problem(00:00:43) - Mason Rosh Dion on The Managing Partners Podcast(00:04:03) - Leading With AI(00:09:44) - How to Run a Law Firm with a Non-Lawyer on(00:16:08) - Criminal Cases You Can't Handle(00:17:41) - Grow Your Firm or Don't?(00:21:45) - How to start a podcast(00:23:11) - Mason on His NFL Fan Side

This episode explores the vital role of personal branding and content marketing in scaling law firms. As competition increases, law firm owners must shift from traditional firm logos to the leaders behind them. Russell Knight shares how transparency, authenticity, and consistent content creation attract clients and top talent alike. We discuss how third-party endorsements and online reputation influence AI-driven visibility. Russell emphasizes that social media engagement builds trust, humanizes the lawyer, and enhances reputation. Law firm leaders are encouraged to be active digitally, produce videos, and leverage platforms like LinkedIn and TikTok to stand out. Finally, the episode underscores that consistency and authenticity are critical to long-term growth. Law firm owners who prioritize personal branding and content are better positioned to attract clients and staff in an increasingly digital environment. In this episode, you'll learn: The significance of third-party endorsements in AI rankings How authentic social media presence builds trust and recruits talent Why content creation is more effective than traditional branding Strategies for positioning oneself as a market authority The importance of niche focus and consistent effort This episode offers practical insights for managing partners aiming to lead their firms through the digital age and grow sustainably. Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Are You Ready for Your AI Backlinks?(00:00:51) - Returning Guest: Russell Knights(00:01:22) - Russell Levine on Recruiting Lawyers(00:04:48) - How to Get Your Law Firm Recommended by AI(00:07:30) - How to Get Your Personal Brand Up(00:10:59) - How to Get Started with a Podcast(00:15:14) - Is Influencer Advice Good For Financial Advisors?(00:18:35) - Separation Law: Which Way Should I Spend My Money?(00:21:05) - How to Get Out There on Podcasts and LinkedIn(00:22:54) - Russell Knight

Strong firm culture is the cornerstone of sustainable growth and employee retention. In this episode, Kevin Daisey hosts Patrick Wooten, CEO of Mississippi's largest personal injury firm, who shares insights from his 26-year journey. Patrick emphasizes that a positive culture and clear communication are vital for scaling a firm successfully. He highlights the importance of understanding the "why" behind decisions and engaging team members through regular feedback loops and surveys. The conversation explores the strategic value of masterminds, mentorship, and forging referral networks with larger firms. Patrick discusses how authenticity and consistency in marketing build trust with clients and prospects. His leadership example underscores that resilient growth results from intentional culture, collaboration, and investing in relationships both internally and externally. This episode offers practical lessons on leadership, operational growth, and decision-making that law firm owners and managing partners can implement today. Building trust and fostering culture are not one-time efforts, they’re ongoing commitments that sustain long-term success. In this episode: The role of culture in firm retention and growth Using surveys and feedback loops to clarify roles and improve communication The value of joining and participating in selective mastermind groups Why mentorship and referral relationships enhance strategy and reputation Authenticity in marketing as a trust-building tool Today's episode is sponsored by The Managing Partners Mastermind. Click here to schedule an interview to see if we’re a fit: https://arraydigital.com/the-managing-partners-mastermind/ Chapters (00:00:00) - What Makes a Firm So Successful?(00:00:34) - Law Firm Leadership: Think Big(00:01:06) - Patrick Wooten on "EWTN Today"(00:02:20) - Jeff Schwartz and Associates Injury Lawyers(00:05:30) - COO and CEO of the largest personal injury firm in the state(00:09:57) - Culture at the Firm(00:11:59) - Understanding the Why Behind a Decision(00:17:49) - Are You In A Mastermind?(00:23:40) - Bradley on Becoming a Mindset Coach(00:28:14) - How to Reach Out to Your Competitors(00:31:38) - Are You More Authentic Than Your Advertising?(00:36:10) - Building trust in your marketing(00:37:15) - Don't Be Afraid of the 600-Foot gorilla(00:38:58) - How to Get Your Firm to Top 5(00:41:19) - Patrick On Connecting With People