Advertise on podcast: The Policy Nerd, by UNESCO

Juliet Schor, professor at Boston College, bestselling author and global advocate for worktime redesign, returns to the podcast following the 2023 episode. She now brings new insights from expanded large-scale trials in reducing the workweek from five to four days, with no pay cuts. Since we last spoke, these trials have grown significantly in both scale and scope, covering more than 245 organisations across 11 countries. The findings show remarkable consistency: around 90% of participating companies remain on the four-day week after one year, with employees reporting improvements across 20 well-being indicators and employers seeing no loss in productivity. While the four-day workweek may feel novel, it is not the first time working hours have been reduced. The shift from six to five days in the 1920s offers a clear historical precedent and important lessons for today. The four-day movement is now attracting a broad coalition, from governments and unions to environmental organisations, women’s groups and disability advocates, each seeing tangible benefits in shorter workweeks. Yet the at-scale adoption of the four-day week is bound to have ripple effects across other sectors, including education, the care economy, social protection and the environment – effects that remain to be fully understood. Are we ready for those? Find out more in her conversation with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc. The facts, ideas and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of the authors; they are not necessarily those of UNESCO or any of its partners and stakeholders and do not commit nor imply any responsibility thereof. The designations employed and the presentation of material throughout these episodes do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of UNESCO concerning the legal status of any country, territory, city or area or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers or boundaries. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Daron Acemoglu, the newly minted Nobel prize laureate in Economics and distinguished Institute Professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), debunks for us some long-standing assumptions about technology, productivity, and shared prosperity. Benefits do not automatically tickle down from industry to workers. Distributive gains take inclusive institutions and a calibrated approach that creates greater competition, changes the norms in the industry, and deals specifically with market failures via a host of incentives, subsidies, taxes, and regulations. In the case of the tech industry, that starts with a vision that is pro-worker and pro-democratic – the opposite of what Acemoglu characterizes as the current Silicon Valley equilibrium. Finally, we are asked to think very critically about some of the trending policy solutions. Universal basic income is not the silver bullet some see it to be. Data value and its distribution, on the other hand, deserve great attention. Data is going to be as important as land is to production. How do we treat it as such? Find answers in his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Mark Esposito, Professor at Hult International Business School and Adjunct Professor of Public Policy at Georgetown University, joins us today to discuss crisis and resilience. He dissects the concrete markers of a resilient system and discusses what helps it withstand (and possibly thrive in) turmoil. The number of shocks will only increase, hence it is high time to in-build agility and implicit fragility into our systems. When it comes to governance and decision-making, there is a lot of destigmatization that needs to be done on the concept of failure. In crisis, the speed of response and pivoting may be more critical than accuracy. Yet we’re bound by institutional legacies that have not been stress-tested for the mega challenges of today and operate under the assumption that decision-making must be successful 100 percent. How to regroup? Follow his discussion with UNESCO's Iulia Sevciuc for solutions. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Charles Landry, author and president of the Creative Bureaucracy Festival, talks to us about how the public sector has been weakened from within through consistent reduction in its capacities and expertise. Cuts in analytical, foresight and strategic entities have not gone unfelt in crises. Under pressure to deliver, the public sector has been increasingly reaching to the market and outsourcing work. Spending and over-reliance on external consultants have, expectedly, mounted. Equally important is that such a trend has infantalized the public sector and put it on an unequal footing – through imbalanced access to intellectual resources and investments – with external consultants. Are there ways out ? Find out in his discussion with UNESCO 's Iulia Sevciuc. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Much guilt for the erosion of public trust in science is laid at the feet of social media. Does data support such fears? Homero Gil de Zuñiga Navajas and Brigitte Huber conducted a 20-country study that looked into this relationship and they say… “it’s complicated”. Social media news use is positively related to trust in science, yet worries about echo chambers and polarization are real. They also say that there is little fake news on social media, but it’s the concentration and effects that are concerning. The majority of fake news hits a small group of people, who are dragged into rabbit holes by algorithms and their own curation of content. But look on the bright side. There is room for everything on social media. Scientists and policy makers need to discern paths to positive outcomes. From using micro-targeting, to banking on users' need for cognition, to tailoring campaigns to personality traits – social media has “tricks”. Are we ready to employ them? Find out in their discussion with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc . Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Sudip Parikh, CEO of the American Association for the Advancement of Science and Executive Publisher of the Science journals, talks to us about major trends in science and how they affect us all. He begins by saying that populism and polarisation are taking hold of science. Belonging to a group – be it political, faith-based or any other – becomes more important than the truth and scientific fact. Taking refuge in the laboratory and its rationality is no longer an option. Science needs to tailor its communication to the publics and, importantly, to step up its engagement with policy. That is not a zero-cost shift. Concrete incentives are needed not only to trigger the right reforms in our traditional structures of science and government, but also to counteract current incentives for active disinformation. And, more than ever, social sciences need to help us navigate the trends and understand the experiments run on global populations in real time. How all this is to be achieved? Find out in his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Mark Howden, a Vice Chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and co-recipient of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize, talks about trust in climate science. How vital is this trust for our collective policies and climate trajectory? Why have we ended up polarizing and politicising climate science to such levels? Can we de-escalate? Mark has answers. Listen closely to his discussion with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc on these and so much more. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Dani Rodrik, Professor at Harvard Kennedy School and the visionary who predicted the risks of unfettered globalisation, tells us how we need to collectively change course. The old narratives and policies have not aligned with the expectation that all boats would be lifted. New solutions are needed to shore up the middle class and deliver on the promise of shared prosperity. He says that the services sector is the policy answer. It is the rising source of good, green, human, local, gender-beneficial jobs in both advanced and developing economies. Finally, he flags that specific policies need specific knowledge. Yet much of the knowledge we’ve invested in caters to the needs of the richer countries and may skew the decisions in the rest. What is to be done? Find the answers in his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences.     Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Juliet Schor, Sociology Professor at Boston College and a bestselling author, says the traditional approaches to work need redesigning. The case she makes is for a reduction of the workweek from five to four days with no pay cut. Juliet has been trialling it around the world – including Australia, Brazil, Canada, South Africa, the UK and the US – and brings concrete data on its benefits for both the employees and the companies. Employees report less stress, lower burnout rates, improved physical and mental health, and greater job satisfaction. As for the companies, productivity and profitability go up, turnover and absenteeism go down, and talent and applicant attraction improve. While positive, these results come from trials that have been, so far, concentrated in certain industries and set-ups. To scale up and reap the full benefits of a 4-day week, companies and governments need to embrace broader measures – e.g., internal reorganisation of processes, work redesign, incentives and possible subsidies to stimulate uptake across industries and countries. How do we make it happen? Find answers in her discussion with UNESCO 's Iulia Sevciuc. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Manuel Muñiz, the Provost of IE University in Madrid and the former Spanish Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs, talks to us about the massive shifts our societies, economies and systems of governance are undergoing. The changes may be not as visual – no one is tearing down a wall – but they are as significant as what has happened at the end of the Cold War with the undoing of the international order, fracturing of the social contract, and the hollowing of the middle class leading to the hollowing of the middle of the political spectrum. What is peculiar is that is not a problem of scarcity but a product of the incapacity to manage and govern abundance well. What are the solutions? He says we need to embrace complexity, with governments needing to take the space and the opportunity to reshape the welfare state, the redistributive mechanisms, the taxation, the competitions and the antitrust policies. Joined-up reforms are needed on all fronts. Follow his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences, for details on how that is to be done. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Diane Coyle, Professor of Public Policy at the University of Cambridge and Director of the Productivity Institute, talks to us about data value. She explains how good (or bad) we are at capturing such value and why we need to start distributing it amongst all actors involved in its co-creation. Diane tackles the key issue of whether/what share of that monetary and non-monetary value should flow back to both governments and individuals. Listen closely to her discussion with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc on all this. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nadia Calviño, Vice-President and Minister for Economy and Digitalization of Spain, talks to us about inequalities, and how our exit from the current crises is through closing the most gaping divides. She says there are solutions, with Spain’s minimum subsistence income being an example of such. She also warns that it is not only the physical world we must be paying close attention to. If unchecked, the fast-emerging economies of data and AI can give rise to new, digital haves and have-nots. We should strive for a humanistic digitalization. How to bring all these about? Find the answers in her discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences.  Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Mariana Mazzucato, professor at University College London and a bestselling author, explains how the current systems are geared towards the pursuit of dysfunctional – i.e., financialised, consumption-led, climate-damaging – growth. They are also designed to fail, operating in a fixing and reactive rather than proactive mode. The present crises are clear lessons for all.  The direction has to change and the systems require re-shaping to fit that purpose. Mazzucato does not stop at diagnosing problems. She explains that there are concrete levers to be employed in this shift. First, public procurement is a powerful instrument at the disposal of governments – big and small – that needs to become outcome-oriented to deliver against common needs, such as the green transition or zeroing the digital divide. Second, investments have to be structured around real collective intelligence and reward sharing, rather than extractive relationships between the parties that have been witnessed throughout the COVID-19 crisis and beyond. Third, a common good and portfolio mindset is required on the public investment side so that access and rewards are shared as equitably as the risks have been taken. Listen to Mazzucato as she addresses the UNESCO MOST Forum and details these solutions. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Douglas Elmendorf, Dean of Harvard Kennedy School, tells us what it would take to reset equitably after COVID-19, how herd thinking (amongst experts and beyond) hurts us and why trust in science is to be restored if the intent is to move ahead smartly. He says that we’ve been focusing too much on efficiency and not enough on equity. That has to change. But how? Listen to his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director General for Social and Human Sciences. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Peter Gluckman, the President of the International Science Council and the former Chief Science Advisor to the Prime Minister of New Zealand, came on to discuss how polarisation has infiltrated science and is tearing up the public trust in it. He says that the acceptance (or rejection) of scientific conclusions has become an ideological badge of identity. Social media only adds to it, overloading the public with (mis)information we are not yet equipped to navigate. There are many solutions, but underneath it all is the fundamental task of restoring civil discourse. We need to be able to talk – in agreement or disagreement – again. Can we do that? Find out in his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences.  Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.