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With Linc Markham, Executive Workforce Solutions Advisor The messy middle where services procurement and contingent labour overlap, is where value quietly leaks through misclassified work, duplicated outsourcing, and runaway change requests. AI, requisition-stage data, and stronger cross-team partnering are making this spend possible to spot, quantify, and route the right way. 11:09 - What grey spend actually is and why it matters 18:11 - Why it pays & matching work to the right channel 28:57 - Quantifying it & deciding how the work gets done 44:19 - The new grey spend: SaaS and AI agents 51:05 - Breaking silos & partnering for a win-win

With Sam Smith, President, Pontoon Exploring how AI, workforce strategy, and evolving MSP models are reshaping the future of work. From services procurement and talent management to leadership and innovation, looking at how businesses can build smarter, more agile workforce solutions while keeping people at the center of transformation. 15:52 - The Rise of The Agentic MSP 39:54 - Utilizing Skills and Moving Towards Total Talent Management 48:38 - MSP and Technology Value 01:02:14 - Simplifying Services Complexity 01:17:20 - Suppliers and Strategic Workforce Planning

The shift from contingent labor to total talent management is reshaping how organisations approach services procurement. AI, data, and stronger oversight are enabling better control, visibility, and value from complex services spend. With Betty Sweetman, Indirect Procurement Leader 04:31 - How AI Helps Address Complexity in Services 17:30 - From Contingent Labour to Outcomes in Total Talent Management 30:45 - Sourcing and Alignment in Services Procurement 52:11 - The Structural Bias Toward Direct Procurement 59:44 - Why Services Procurement can be a Competitive Advantage When Leveraged Properly

When services are clearly defined upfront, organisations gain more control, better outcomes and stronger partnerships. This discussion examines what needs to change early to support scalable, effective services procurement. With David Orme, Global Head, Services Procurement, Pontoon 00:02:11 - Creating services procurement conversations 00:11:34 - The importance of a full services lifecycle 00:24:52 - The current services procurement tech landscape 00:36:04 - Leveraging the most suitable tech 00:49:44 - Achieving 'best fit' for innovation and agility

Many organizations are still early in their services procurement maturity journey. This podcast explores how starting small and evolving over time can unlock value and build the foundation for more advanced supplier sourcing, analytics, and governance in services. With Joe David, Services Procurement & Contigent Workforce SME 09:51 - The evolution of services procurement understanding  45:56 - Moving towards maturity in services procurement 54:39 - The possibilities in transforming the way you procure services 01:10:17 - How AI and technology can help to move the services procurement market forward 01:18:41 - Why operational service excellence is critical

Services procurement often evolves without a clear operating model, leaving spend fragmented and hard to govern. This conversation breaks down how to build the foundations, from intake and data to ownership and change management, that make services procurement work in practice. With Erin Shwiff, Director Operations, Transformation & Strategic Initiatives, Western Union  15:42 - 24:06 - The importance of data and centralization in services procurement 34:26 - 44:32 - Building your business case and making things happen  44:32 - 54:08 - Bringing skills into services procurement 54:12-01:05:07 - Creating understanding and buy-in 01:11:48 - 01:01:20:06 - Where MSPs could be offering strategic value in Services Procurement

Making the right services procurement choices starts with understanding what needs to be delivered and where capability should sit. Organisations must weigh internal capability, external expertise, timelines, cost and risk to choose the approach that best fits the work. With Noel Lai-Kit, Head of Services Procurement, London Stock Exchange Group 05:48 - 16:29 - Adaptability and evolution in services procurement 24:43 - 33:49 - The value of problem solving and strategy in services procurement 34:01 - 43:18 - Services & people - the grey areas in between 43:18 - 49:02 - The services procurement lifecycle 49:52 - 01:02:43 - The importance of data in services procurement

As services procurement grows, organisations struggle with limited visibility into who is delivering work and how value is measured. The conversation examines why that gap creates friction between procurement and the business, and what stronger governance enables. With David Orme, Global Head, Services Procurement, Pontoon 12:29 - 19:10 - The main services procurement issues in the market 20:19 - 29:21 - Why are people struggling to get started 29:50 - 35:45 - The benefits of tackling services procurement 41:42 - 51:27 - The services visibility gap 57:03 - 01:02:21 - Bridging the services procurement gap

A holistic approach to services procurement looks beyond individual transactions to how work, data and accountability connect across the organisation. Having a broader view is critical for managing complexity, risk and value in services spend. With Patti Vora, Independent Consultant 01:40 - The journey through Sourcing to Contingent & Services Procurement  20:16 - Focusing on the PO doesn't give the full picture  37:32 - Why organisations struggle to get value from professional services  55:20 - The essential nature of control in services procurement  01:03:47 - Data and supplier performance - the keys to strategy

Managing services effectively requires different thinking than managing contingent labour or goods. Clear ownership, fit-for-purpose processes and realistic expectations are key to making services procurement work. With David Orme, Global Head, Services Procurement, Pontoon. 18:02-23:59 - Why services demand different thinking 24:52-31:18 - The importance of data in services procurement 40:42-51:40 - Managing stakeholder resistance 59:23-01:04:45 - The key drivers for better managing services procurement 01:06:46-01:11:26 - Services procurement wins at Cox

Total workforce decisions are being made with incomplete insight into services, suppliers and delivery models. Improving visibility across services procurement is critical to managing risk, controlling spend and supporting long-term workforce planning. With Brian Salkowski, President, eTeam 06:18 - 13:40 - Using AI to get work done 19:26 - 24:45 - Minimising risk and maintaining accountability 25:09 - 30:04 - Aligning strategy with outputs 31:40 - 36:49 - Outcome and effort is not a binary switch 43:56 - 49:01 - Thinking Strategically

Services procurement plays a critical role in achieving true total workforce visibility and control. Establishing clear foundations around structure, data and governance is essential to managing employees, contingent labour and services as one workforce. With Lisa Williams, Sr. Director Operations Talent Strategy and Employee Experience, Dow  22:04 - 25:49 - Making Total Workforce Management make sense 44:02 - 49:11 - How does services procurement fit into TWM and why is it often the biggest gap? 50:55 - 54:28 - Adapting to leverage services procurement 55:19 - 01:00:50 - Services procurement as a core skill 01:01:04 - 01:06:59 - Bringing Total Workforce Management together

A practical look at how clearer processes and better visibility can help reduce resistance and make services procurement easier to manage. The case study highlights the changes made to create greater consistency, control and confidence across the journey. With Nic Everett, Senior Procurement Manager, Telent 00:12:49 - Getting started with managing Services Procurement effectively 00:27:00 - Business case hurdles and successes 00:36:21 - Improving transparency in supplier delivery for business agility 00:49:09 - The factors holding others in the market back 01:01:47 - What the future holds and what part AI can play

Services procurement often struggles with adoption when processes are unclear or inconsistent. Introducing structure and visibility can create confidence, improve delivery and support sustainable change. With Vinos Samuel, Workforce Transformation Specialist 00:08:44 - Why services procurement is the most misunderstood lever in APAC talent strategy 00:15:37 - The orchestration of work 00:27:56 - The move to skills based architecture 00:39:54 - Centralization and supplier capabilities 00:55:33 - Bringing it all together and moving forward fast

With Niul Burton, Procurement Advocate and Advisor 00:04:46 - The services procurement landscape 00:14:39 - The unsolved challenges in services procurement 00:29:45 - Criticality of change management in successful implementations 00:59:38 - Building a business case 01:04:37 - Merits of a ‘best of breed’