Advertise on podcast: The Kirk + Kurtts Design Podcast

Michael Wilson of Copper Gate Design Company is back on the show, and this one's a masterclass in the business side of running a design studio. Kirk and Andy get Michael talking about why he puts his pricing right out in the open on his site, how to actually get comfortable charging what you're worth, and why the client who talks you down on price is almost always the one who brings 80% of the headaches. Michael also opens up about his own hop water brand, Hazard's Hop Water, and the humbling lesson of not following his own advice — how niching too hard on the golf community nearly sank it, and what changed the moment they broadened the story to who they actually are. Plus the All the Bitter rebrand, and the counterintuitive call to pull "functional" off the front of the pack even though it was true. In this episode: Why transparent pricing makes the money conversation easier (and keeps you honest)Fitting the scope to the client's budget — not shrinking your price to fit themHunter vs. gatherer: two very different ways to win new workThe "second lap" — ship it, get real market feedback, then redesign for what you learnedWhy your packaging will change in the first 3–5 years, and that's the pointDon't chase the shiny object — anchor back to the strategy docHosted by Kirk Visola (Mind the Font) and Andy Kurtts (Buttermilk Creative). Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

Kirk and Andy sit down with marketing and brand strategist Joshua David for a conversation that starts with a joke about his very long bio and quickly goes somewhere much more honest. Josh traces his path from working hotel front desks (including a stint in London that convinced him he was in the wrong industry) to community management, influencer marketing in New York, and eventually running social for Ebony, where he grew the platform from 200,000 to nearly a million organic followers before he turned 25. Along the way he crossed paths with a who's who of names, but the real story is what he learned about himself in those rooms. Mostly, this is a candid talk about being real in spaces that reward performance. The guys get into authenticity versus code-switching, what it costs to be the only person of color in the room, why Josh leaves a job before they start to hate him, and the price of doing the one thing you don't want to do just to reach the next rung. There's a lot on the tension between caring too much and protecting your own peace, plus a hard look at how companies say they want you to shake the table right up until you actually do. Funny, blunt, and occasionally uncomfortable in the best way. Come for the industry stories, stay for the truth-telling. The Kirk and Kurtts Design Podcast. Kirk Visola, founder and creative director of Mind the Font, and Andy Kurtts, founder and creative director of Buttermilk Creative. Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

"A sparkly rainbow that defies category." That's how this week's guest describes themselves, and honestly, it fits. For the first time, Kirk and Andy sit down with someone who isn't a designer or a founder: Mika Okimura, an educator and learning professional with over a decade of experience building inclusive, student-centered classrooms across the Bay Area, from UC Berkeley to Merritt College to San Francisco State, plus years at the Monterey Bay Aquarium. Mika opens up about growing up queer and Japanese American in a conservative pocket of California, the long road to claiming their they/them identity at almost 40, and how tiring it is to code-switch before you finally decide to just be yourself. They talk about teaching as the art of connection, the meditation teacher who told them they have "infinite wellbeing," and a little ramen otter that explains everything about why they love this work. There's also real talk on boundaries in the classroom, self-care and neurodivergence (including a three-hour nail routine), the "Learning to Pretty" Instagram, and a closing message you won't forget: f**k the model minority. Funny, heartfelt, and a little sweary. Follow The Kirk + Kurtts Design Podcast so you never miss an episode, and learn more about Mika's work as Your Academic Advocate in the show notes. Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

Many times when we have folks on the show there is an immediate and fun conversation that happens before we even do the introductions.  Well, this was one time where we caught our guest in all their marvelous candor, and join in. Well, Kirk joined in with the "back in my day" conversation about moving up the ranks in regards to stewardship of design roles.  Kirk and Madison sit in their rocking chairs sipping tea and complaining while Andy cautiously interjects and adds a much fresher and inspired insight.  This clip ends with the introduction of Madison's podcast, and if you haven't heard it, you can listen to the full podcast here.  Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

Madison Raisch has seen all things in the sports design hemisphere. Over the past two decades, she spent time designing for the NFL and MLB. Madison was able to reach new heights in her career and grow her talent immensely through her talent, relationships, and mad Beatles impersonations.  You know how hard it is to sound like a Scouser? We talk projects, process, and what the future holds for her role at the NWSL. It was such a privilege to have her on the show, and it's definitely worth the listen.  LinkedIn Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

Starting off the new season with a Bang. Christopher Cashdollar is a certified awesome guy and great designer, and yes, that it his real name!  Pennsylvania native, and Drexel University's best ever cartoonist, bought his first Power Mac while at Drexel and decided to delve into web design. This gave him the design bug and allowed him get different design jobs and grow as a designer.  Fast forward to this podcast recording and Chris is an accomplished designer and speaker, but his most proud accomplishment and job title is "Dad." Find out more about Christopher here: Linked In Website Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

We couldn't think of a better way to celebrate our 100th episode than by sitting down with Tamer Kattan.  Tamer details his professional experience from intern to  stand up comic, the trouble with having a name that rhymes with "hammer", and a life that is filled with taking risk, and following your passion.  This is one of our most fun and eclectic podcast to date, and we can't thank you all enough for joining us on this journey thus far. Thanks again to Tamer for joining us, and be sure to follow him on social. LinkedIn Instagram You Tube Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

In this episode, Kirk and Andy sit down with Haylee Jordan and Anthony Bradley, the creative co-founders behind Fabric, a new microdose THC beverage brand that’s part mellow, part mission-driven. Haylee and Anthony walk us through how Fabric went from concept to cans, the chaos of startup pivots, and why good design can’t be an afterthought — even when the product’s not done yet. From the gold-topped packaging to their public benefit corporation status, Fabric is trying to do things differently, on purpose. We get into: The brand’s unexpected founding storyWhat it takes to launch a cannabis beverage in a fast-moving, weirdly regulated spaceTheir approach to naming, product design, and mental health advocacyWhy being “cool” actually matters in CPG brandingMicrodosing vs full-dose THC (and who’s drinking the 10mg cans)Lessons from collaborating as design-first co-foundersWhether you’re into brand building, THC beverages, or just want to hear how creatives launch real products, this one’s worth your time. Website: drinkfabric.com Instagram: @drinkfabric Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

This week, Kirk and Kurtts sit down with Alex Perry, CEO of Right Way, to talk about the evolution of signage from hand-painted murals to high-tech branding experiences. With deep roots in the sign painting world (his dad is still doing murals at 75), Alex shares the real story behind Right Way’s growth from a one-man shop to a trusted signage partner for brands like Nike, Starbucks, and Hilton. We dive into: Growing up around lettering and storefronts in EvanstonWhy Right Way lost a big client — and what they learnedHow digital tech and design-forward thinking rebuilt the businessWhat it’s like to balance creative craft with production at scaleThe problem with clients who think signs are just another invoice lineWhether you’re a designer, business owner, or someone who just loves seeing good design in the wild, this one’s for you. Thanks again to Alex for joining us. Check out Right Way at rightwaysigns.com. Follow us and leave a review if you’re enjoying the show. Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

James Barnard didn’t start out in design. He originally wanted to work in the music industry. But after a detour through web development and publishing design in London, he found his true calling: logo and identity design. In this episode, Kirk and Andy talk with James about his path from learning Photoshop at a data entry job to designing for major UK newspapers and building his own studio in Australia. They dive into how James refined his creative process, how he manages client expectations, and why sharing design tutorials on social media became his most powerful business driver. They also discuss: How to build a clean logo design process clients understandUsing “brand nouns” to align early and avoid wasted workThe importance of giving clients time to process designsHow one viral TikTok post unlocked a steady stream of client leadsJames also shares how he balances teaching with client work, why he prioritizes clarity over perfection, and how community sharing has improved both his practice and the industry at large. If you want to sharpen your logo design workflow or learn how to attract clients by teaching what you know, this one’s packed with ideas you can apply. Follow James at barnard.co and @barnardco on Instagram Connect with James on LinkedIn Follow Kirk at mindthefont.com. Follow Andy at buttermilkcreative.com. Enjoying the show? Subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a designer who’s figuring out their own creative process. Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

Kirk and Andy sit down with Anna Sison — a Brooklyn-born creative force helping CPG brands grow through sharp, strategic packaging and brand design. With over 20 years in the industry, Anna brings big-agency experience with a nimble studio mindset, combining her deep cultural perspective with a sharp eye for design that works on shelf and connects with consumers. In this episode, Anna shares her creative origin story, the challenges of being a double minority in the design world, and how she’s rewriting the rules of branding with cultural integrity and bold simplicity. She talks candidly about breaking out of agency life, founding her own studio, and why she’s manifesting collaborations with legacy Asian brands looking to expand into the U.S. market. Expect real talk about: Growing up as a first-gen creative and finding identity through designNavigating agency life as a woman of colorThe difference between good design and good deliveryWhy “ugly” packaging can still sell — and what makes it workHer favorite recent project helping modernize traditional Chinese medicineThis one’s packed with insight, honesty, and a whole lot of laughter. Don’t miss it. Connect with Anna here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaisonconsultant/ Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

Design isn’t just about how something looks — it’s about how it feels. In this second conversation with brand designer and icon genius Selma Qui, Kirk and Andy go deep on how her approach to branding has evolved from crafting precise, geometric visuals to building experiences that leave a lasting emotional mark. Selma opens up about her creative process, the shift from designer to experience-maker, and why she now chooses to work only with brands and people who align with her values. We talk about imposter syndrome, client trust, and how art, photography, and personal memory all shape her distinctive visual language. It’s a thoughtful and inspiring conversation with one of the most intuitive and intentional brand designers working today. If you’ve ever felt stuck pushing pixels, Selma’s journey might be exactly what you need to hear. 🎧 Episode highlights: Why Selma prioritizes experience over aestheticsHow a deep discovery process shapes her creative directionThe role of trust and energy in working with foundersHer battle with imposter syndrome — and how she talks herself through itWhy personal values matter more than ever in design partnershipsCheck out Selma's work here: https://selmamakui.com/ Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

Mike Perry has had a wild ride through the world of design. From cropping football players at NBC Sports to launching award-winning liquor brands with his agency, Tavern, Mike brings real craft, deep industry knowledge, and an obsession with the details that most people ignore. In this episode, Kirk and Andy dig into the intersection of creativity, commerce, and booze—specifically how alcohol packaging isn’t just design, it’s storytelling, strategy, and sculpture in one. Mike shares his journey from designing promos for MLS and NHL to building branding for Budweiser, Guinness, Pabst, and Smirnoff. He breaks down the thinking behind the recent Old Grand-Dad 16 redesign, how to work with (not against) label regulations, and why the back-of-pack matters just as much as the front. You’ll hear about: • The unglamorous start at NBC Sports—and what you can learn from cropping out athletes • The power of legacy marks and why Tavern’s “modern heritage” philosophy works • What designers get wrong about spirits packaging • Building client trust on brand revivals like Old Crow and Old Grand-Dad • Why design teams should always go through the archives • How bottle structure influences perceived value (and pricing psychology) • When you shouldn’t follow hierarchy—and how to know when to break the rules If you’ve ever wanted to get into spirits branding, or if you’re a packaging nerd who can’t stop redesigning your bourbon shelf in your head, this episode will hit. Mike also talks about the highs and heartbreaks of launching new brands, working with master distillers, and the weird joy of seeing your beer can design in a trash pile after a party—because it means someone loved it. We’ll definitely have him back for a full deep dive into beer design. This is part one. You’ve been warned. Follow Mike’s work at  https://tavern.agency/ and see the Old Grand-Dad 16 case study for yourself. Connect with Mike here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelperry/ Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

In this episode, we sit down with Dan Forster, an award-winning lettering artist and designer with over 25 years of experience. Dan has crafted stunning custom lettering for brands, agencies, and clients worldwide, but his journey into the world of type wasn’t a straight path—it was shaped by frustration, perseverance, and an unexpected return to his roots. Dan shares the story of his late father, a renowned lettering artist, and how clearing out his dad’s studio after his passing led to a creative revelation. We talk about his early struggles with drawing letters, his detour into graphic design, and the moment he realized that lettering was his true calling. We also dive into: ✔️ The painstaking process behind mastering letterforms (and why drawing a single Helvetica “a” for hours was a turning point). ✔️ His time at top agencies like Elmwood and the leap into freelancing. ✔️ The evolution of lettering in branding and why some iconic wordmarks, like Kahlúa, needed a refresh. ✔️ How he approaches complex lettering projects—including a 30-day masterpiece that landed in Communication Arts. ✔️ The importance of showing process work to clients and why observing letterforms is just as crucial as drawing them. ✔️ The push-and-pull between modern digital tools and the lost art of hand-lettering. We wrap things up with a discussion on the blandification of branding (looking at you, Johnson & Johnson) and the challenge of preserving craft in a world moving toward simplicity. Plus, Dan shares why he thinks it’s never too late to change career paths and go all-in on what you love. If you’re into typography, branding, or just love hearing about the obsessive world of letterforms, this episode is a must-listen. More about Dan Forster: www.danforster.com Connect with Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danforster/ Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show

In this episode, we sit down with Lindsay Meredith, a brand and visual designer specializing in custom-crafted design through lettering and illustration. Lindsay’s work has been featured in Logo Lounge and includes collaborations with major names like Hasbro, Nickelodeon, LeapFrog, Disney, and professional and collegiate sports organizations. From growing up watching her father pinstripe cars to becoming an expert in brand identity, Lindsay shares how her early exposure to lettering and design shaped her career. She walks us through her journey—from starting in screen printing to navigating the challenges of freelancing and ultimately honing her niche in sports branding and custom typography. We dive into: ✅ The impact of early artistic influences and how Lindsay’s dad’s craft set the foundation for her career ✅ The evolution of her work, from offset printing to digital illustration and custom lettering ✅ How she balances branding, illustration, and lettering to create unique, memorable logos ✅ The power of self-initiated projects and why personal work can attract dream clients ✅ Lessons learned from building a sustainable freelance business ✅ Why animation and 3D design are next on her creative radar Lindsay also shares insights into her design process, how she captures the essence of a brand, and the importance of presenting work in context to help clients see the bigger picture. Plus, we geek out over the Omaha Supernovas, her sports branding projects, and what it’s like to see Jason Derulo rocking one of her designs. If you’re a designer looking to carve out your niche, embrace creative exploration, or break into sports branding, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways. 🔗 Learn more about Lindsay Meredith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindseykm/ View her work here: https://www.lindseykm.com/ Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share with a fellow creative!  Send us Fan Mail Support the show About Kirk and Andy. Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com. Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com. Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee: Support the show