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After eight seasons, countless conversations, and a whole lot of laughter, tears, unraveling, and becoming, we are releasing our final episode of the Deconstructing Mamas podcast. This one is different. Instead of one long conversation, we’re weaving together short, meaningful snippets from every season — tiny heartbeats that capture the essence of what this journey has been for us and for so many of you. Between each season, we share small reflections about what we’ve learned and who we’re becoming. We hope this episode feels like a quilt of our time together — stitched with honesty, courage, tenderness, and yes… plenty of grace and space. ✨ In This Episode A curated montage of moments from every seasonPersonal reflections from Esther and LizzA look back at where we started — when very few voices were speaking openly about deconstruction, doubt, or evolving faithA vision for where we’re headed nextA huge dose of gratitude for YOU — our listeners, our guests, our community✨ Our Ongoing Work Although the podcast is ending, our work continues — just in new forms. Esther is pouring more deeply into her spiritual direction practice, Heard and Held, where she companions people through life transitions, soul questions, and evolving faith. Learn more: estherjoygoetz.com/heardandheld Lizz will be tending the Deconstructing Mamas social media space for a while, giving herself room to explore what’s next in her own unfolding faith journey. ✨ A Growing Resource Hub When we began this podcast, there were almost no resources for people navigating faith shifts — no guides, no shared stories, no roadmap. Now? There is a flourishing community of voices doing beautiful, necessary work in the world of evolving faith. We are committed to pointing you toward them. Visit our Resource Page, which includes: Every guest from all eight seasonsBooks, podcasts, workshops, and guides that have shaped usOther teachers, writers, therapists, and spiritual companions who are doing deep, meaningful work🌱 This page will be fully updated before the end of the year.  Explore here: deconstructingmamas.com/resources ✨ Thank You To every guest, listener, supporter, question-asker, and quiet companion on the other side of the headphones: You have given us grace. You have given us space. And you have walked with us on this beautiful, hard, sacred, and brave journey of an ever-evolving faith. We’re forever grateful.

In this powerful and honest conversation, Esther and Liz sit down with returning guest and friend Dr. Glenn Siepert — author, artist, and creator of The What If Project. Together, they explore: ✨ What it feels like when faith unravels… again Glenn shares the disorienting (and strangely hopeful) experience of realizing that the beliefs that once felt solid no longer hold up — and how returning to the “still small voice” inside changed everything. ✨ The difference between the loud voice of outrage and the quiet voice of intuition We talk about the internal noise that comes from doom-scrolling, fear, and certainty… and the gentle whisper beneath it that calls us back to our truest selves. ✨ How we recreate old fundamentalism in new clothing Why it’s so easy to transfer judgment, certainty, and arrogance into a “new container” — and how to catch ourselves when we do. ✨ Jesus, the Bible, and faith — reimagined Glenn reflects on how his relationship with scripture and Jesus has changed: less about worshiping the unattainable, more about remembering who we truly are. ✨ Why love really is a form of resistance We dive deep into what it means to see the humanity in someone whose beliefs feel harmful or deeply triggering — without abandoning our own boundaries or safety. ✨ Proximity, curiosity, and the slow inner work of healing We explore how curiosity dismantles fear, why proximity changes everything, and why inner healing is the only path toward outer compassion. This episode is for anyone who has ever felt disoriented, untethered, angry, hopeful, curious, exhausted, or wide awake. You’re not alone. And there is another way.

In this third-to-last episode of Deconstructing Mamas, we talk about one of the biggest questions we’ve been asked over the past four years: What does community look like now, after everything we’ve lost? For so many of us, the communities we left behind were built around sameness — shared beliefs, shared behaviors, shared expectations. Belonging depended on staying inside the lines, and when we stepped outside them, everything changed. In this honest conversation, we explore: what we were actually grieving when those communities fell aparthow the loss showed up in our bodies, rhythms, and spiritual livesthe tension of wanting connection again but fearing hurt or misunderstandingwhat we truly need from community now (and what we’re no longer willing to sacrifice)the surprising, tender ways new community has begun to grow We talk about Esther’s spiritual direction cohort, our online book club, and the friends who love us with no agenda. And we talk about Lizz’s experience finding unexpected connection with the moms at her small-town school — community without pressure, performance, or shrinking. If you’re in the in-between — grieving what was and unsure what comes next — this episode is for you. There is a way forward. It may be smaller, softer, slower…but it will be truer. And you’ll know it by how deeply you can breathe there.

We sat down with Rev. Benjamin Cremer, writer, pastor, and creator of Into the Gray, to talk about what it looks like to hold sacred anger with open hands. This conversation stretched from “What if I’m wrong?” to “How do we keep from passing our pain along?” We talked about retributive vs. restorative justice, how lament can heal our nervous systems, and why gentleness might just be the most radical form of resistance. Ben reminded us that curiosity is a spiritual practice, lament is a sacred protest, and gentleness—far from weakness—is creativity at its finest. KEY TAKEAWAYS:  Curiosity loosens fear. It moves us from I know you’re wrong to What if I’m wrong?Sacred rage has a direction. Aim your anger at harmful systems, not at the people trapped inside them.Lament is how we stop passing pain. Naming grief in community transforms rage into healing.Gentleness is courageous. It interrupts the cycle of violence and control with creativity, humor, and love.Correction comes after connection. Whether in parenting, faith, or community—belonging comes first.Tradition is living faith. Traditionalism is the dead faith of the living.Transformation is slow work. Small acts of connection and compassion still change the world. WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS:  Because so many of us are carrying a mix of grief, anger, and exhaustion—and trying to figure out what to do with it. This conversation names that ache and gives it language. It’s an invitation to move from bitterness to belonging, from outrage to imagination. If you’ve ever felt burned by religion but still long for the sacred, if you’re learning to parent or protest differently, or if you’re craving a spirituality wide enough to hold lament and love—this one’s for you.

In this vulnerable and deeply human conversation, Esther and Lizz open up about the long, complicated process of learning to trust their emotions — after being raised in systems that taught them not to. They talk about what it means to rebuild emotional safety after high-control religion, where feelings were often dismissed as sinful, deceptive, or dangerous. Together, they explore how learning to honor their emotions has transformed their faith, relationships, and parenting. This episode is both tender and raw — an honest look at the messy, holy work of coming home to yourself. Key Themes & Takeaways Emotions Aren’t Enemies, They’re Messengers After years of hearing “faith over feeling,” both hosts are reclaiming their emotions as sacred — not something to suppress, but something to listen to.  Righteous Anger as a Force for Good Liz shares how anger has become a holy motivator for change — a muscle she’s still learning to use wisely and courageously. Safety, Authenticity & the Nervous System They discuss the toll of living in constant spiritual and emotional high alert — and what happens when the body finally realizes it was never truly safe. From Faking It to Feeling It Liz’s story of exhaustion from “faking it” in faith spaces resonates with so many listeners who’ve masked their true selves to belong. Learning to Feel Safe With Ourselves Esther shares how her own healing journey has brought her to a surprising place: genuine safety in her own presence — no longer fearing the God who was always “watching,” but resting in love itself. Reclaiming the “Too Much” Self Together they celebrate the parts of themselves once labeled “too emotional,” “too intense,” or “too much.” As Esther says, “I’m not someone to hide — I’m someone to honor.” Why This Episode Matters If you were ever told your emotions were untrustworthy, that your heart was deceitful, or that safety could only be found outside yourself — this episode will meet you right where you are. Esther and Liz remind us that feelings are not flaws. They are sacred signals that lead us toward wholeness, self-trust, and the kind of peace that can’t be forced.

Licensed psychologist and author Dr. Camden Morgante joins us to explore the “middle path” from DBT and how it reshapes faith, nervous-system healing, sexuality, and parenting after high-control religion. We talk about spiritual bypassing versus true healing, pendulation in EMDR, setting wise boundaries, and cultivating a values-based sexual ethic. The middle path costs something. It also grows deep roots. In this episode you’ll hear about What “walking the middle path” means and why both-and thinking is essential in deconstructionSigns your healing is taking hold: cognitive flexibility, compassion, curiosity, less shameConnection-based parenting and becoming a safe place for our kidsBoundaries that honor your body when rooms feel polarizingSpiritual bypassing vs. embodied, grief-honoring faithEMDR’s pendulation and widening the window of toleranceBuilding a values-based sexual ethic after purity cultureLetting healing be slow, playful, and non-linearAbout our guest Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed psychologist, coach, speaker, and author of Recovering from Purity Culture. She writes the Substack Walking the Middle Path, helping readers practice both-and thinking in faith and life. She lives in Knoxville, TN with her family. Connect with Dr. Camden Website: drcamden.comSubstack: https://drcamden.substack.com/Socials: @drcamdenBook: Recovering from Purity Culture 

In this week’s episode, Lizz and Esther talk about the in-between—that blurry stretch between certainty and freedom. We talk about control and compassion, about nervous systems that don’t need theology as much as safety, and about finding community outside the old walls of church. We don’t have tidy answers (we’ve tried those before). But we do have a few anchors for the fog. Anchors for the In-Between When the old ways of praying, believing, or belonging don’t work anymore—start here: Tree time. Sit under one. Lean against it. Let your breath match its calm.Look up. Sky therapy. A reminder you’re part of something vast and kind.Cozy is sacred. Blankets, warm mugs, soft clothes—small acts of self-compassion that retrain your body to feel safe again.Medicine isn’t weakness. Sometimes your nervous system needs help to unclench. That’s healing, not failure.Rest ≠ avoidance. Rest is recovery. Avoidance is fear. The difference is compassion.A Few Things We Said (and Meant) “God isn’t controlling the universe like a puppet show. Love is still here, and it looks like presence.” “Your body isn’t broken—it’s responding wisely to what’s been too much.” “Use your low beams in the fog. Slow is holy.” If You’re Here Right Now If you’re not sure what you believe, or where you belong, or if any of this still counts as faith—welcome. You’re not alone. The fog is temporary. And even here, you’re being held by something softer, wider, and more loving than fear ever was.

We sat down with Shelly Robinson, founder of Raising Yourself, for a conversation about parenting on two levels at once. It’s packed with wisdom, humor, humility, and practical tools for those messy moments when your nervous system wants to hijack the show. 👇 Here’s what you’ll find inside 👇 Certified wellness coach and Raising Yourself founder Shelly Robinson returns to talk about parenting the child in front of us and the one still healing inside of us—inner-child work, humility, co-regulation, boundaries, hormones, rest, and why compassionate presence often beats any script. Sometimes the hardest part of parenting is caring for two children at once — the one in front of us, and the one still healing inside us. In this rich conversation, Shelly Robinson shares how a single “record-scratch” moment shifted her away from fear-based faith and toward reparenting, and how that choice keeps shaping her teens-and-tweens season. We get practical about nervous-system tools in the heat of the moment (“I am safe,” “I want to feel good on the other side of this”), the slow work of tending what gets stirred at each developmental stage, and how sleep, movement, friendship, and boundaries change the energy we bring to our kids. We also name the role of perimenopause, chronic pain, and doomscrolling and why “no wonder” and “that’s fair” are underrated phrases of compassion. You can find Shelly in these spaces: www.shellyrobinson.com Helping Parents Raise Themselves - Raising Yourself Explore Shelly Robinson's unique approach to Reparenting, Gentle and Conscious Parenting. Empower your family journey with insightful resources, expert guidance, and transformative parenting tools. Join the Raising Yourself movement for transformative parenting insights and nurturing a compassionate parenting culture. Instagram: @raisingyourself Facebook: Shelly Robinson - Raising Yourself

In this week’s episode, we dive straight into the heart of fear-based parenting — where it comes from, how it still shows up, and how we begin to choose something different. We ask ourselves the questions we wish someone had asked us years ago: What were we taught — explicitly or implicitly — about what made someone a “godly” or “good” parent?How did those teachings shape how we viewed our kids — and how responsible we felt for their behavior, beliefs, or choices?Can we name a moment when fear was running the show — and how we see that moment differently now?What helped loosen fear’s grip? Was it a single turning point or a slow, patient unraveling?What does it look like, in this season, to choose connection over control?What fear still lingers — and how do we hold it with compassion now?And if we could write a permission slip to our past selves, what would it say about parenting with love instead of fear?We talk about the messages that shaped us — hell, rapture, sin, “God’s will,” belonging — and how they continue to whisper in the background of our parenting. And we explore what it means to parent our kids with radical trust and unconditional love, even when the old scripts want to pull us back into fear. 👇 Here’s what you’ll find inside 👇 Real stories of moments when fear tried to take over — and what choosing love looked like instead.Honest reflections on untangling our worth (and our kids’ worth) from their behavior.Practical ways to pause, breathe, and lead with love when control feels easier.Permission to rewrite the story — for ourselves and for the generations coming after us.

If you’ve ever stepped away from high-control religion, you know there’s a cost. Sometimes it’s obvious—the loss of community, relationships, or even belonging in your own family.  Other times, it’s invisible—the quiet grief of realizing the certainty you once clung to has slipped away, leaving you feeling untethered. This week on the podcast, we’re digging into that cost—naming the wounds, telling the truth about what we’ve carried, and asking what healing really looks like. We’re joined by the hilarious and heartbreakingly honest Mary Katherine Backstrom, bestselling author and viral social media sensation. Mary Katherine grew up the quintessential youth group kid—Bible drills, mission trips, Sunday school answers on speed dial. She was “driving happily down the straight and narrow,” until one day her young son asked: “Will my Jewish best friend go to hell?” That question cracked open everything. What followed was a season she calls her “heresy era”—a mix of doubt, grief, public honesty, and raw storytelling on social media. Her book shares that wild, messy ride: when faith crashes, burns, and somehow—through grace, therapy, and humor—reshapes into something more expansive and real. Here’s what we’ll be talking about: What it costs us to leave high-control religion—both the visible and invisible toll.How humor can become a lifeline in the middle of unraveling.The grief of letting go of certainty and the surprise of finding healing in unexpected places.Parenting after deconstruction: what changes when your kids start asking the questions you were once too afraid to ask.How to break cycles of fear and control so our kids can grow up with freedom, curiosity, and belonging.If you’ve ever felt the ache of losing what once held you—or wondered if the pain is worth it—you are not alone. This conversation is raw, real, and, yes, laugh-out-loud funny. You can find MK Backstrom at the following: Instagram: @marykatherine_author Facebook: MK Backstrom Substack Newsletter: MK's Substack

Welcome to Season Eight! This is the beginning of the final season of our podcast! This week, the two of us are chatting through these questions: 1. What’s one word or image that comes to mind when you think about this podcast’s beginning? 2. What was the ache or question we were carrying that made us want to start this show? 3. Can you remember a moment early on when you thought, “Yes, this matters”? 4. What have you learned — about yourself, your faith, your parenting — through these conversations? 5. Have there been episodes or moments that live in your body still — ones that cracked something open? 6. Why does it feel like now is the time to begin wrapping things up? 7. What are you most curious about or tender toward as we enter this last stretch? 8. If this final season could do just one thing really well — what do you hope that would be? 9. What would you say to someone just discovering this podcast now — here at the beginning of the end? 10. What’s one quiet hope you’re carrying into these final episodes?

Our episode this week is with our own Lizz Enns Petters, mom of two, author and podcast hostess. Our conversation is full of laughter, seriousness and our decision to have permission to explore our faith, along with Lizz's latest accomplishment of being published in a new children's Bible called God's Stories as Told by God's Children. We chat through these questions: 1. You recently contributed to the Bible for Normal People’s publication of a children’s Bible. Why did you want to be a part of that?  2. What makes this particular children’s Bible different than all the others out there? 3. You had a few stories you could have chosen to “re write”. Why did you choose this particular one?  4. What did you want your little readers to really receive about this story?  5. What have been your kids reactions to this Bible?  6.  If you could sit with your kids in this current stage of life and tell them one thing they would take with them on their life’s journey, what would it be and why??  As this is our last episode of Season Seven, Esther and Lizz spend time candidly sharing their thoughts on the Bible and deconstructing and giving themselves permission to be right where they are on their spiritual quests. Instagram:  @lizzennspetters Facebook:  Lizz Enns Petters, the Deconstructed Mama

“There's a misconception that once you leave religion, you magically learn everything you missed about relationships and sex” - The Sexvangelicals Our episode this week is with Jeremiah Gibson and Julia Postema, sex and relationship therapists, coaching and podcast hosts specializing in recovery from high-control religion as it relates to relationships and sexual intimacy. Our conversation is full of candor, surprises and mic-drop moments over and over again. We were blown away by one thing that will leave you wanting more.  We chat through these questions: 1. Even after all these years many of us still tense at that word. How do we help foster curiosity around sexuality in our children as opposed to fear and shame? 2. How do we navigate the grief or trauma that can get activated for us as parents when talking about sexuality differently?  3. How do we lead our children through their questions when we are still working out our own thoughts and feelings on sexuality and sexual identity?  4. Are there tangible ways that we can heal our own wounds around sex while navigating all this with our own kids?  5. What do we do when we disagree with our kids’ choices around sex? How can we support their journey without shame? 6. How important is maintaining our own sex life in the midst of parenting? How can we do this when it feels like the last thing on the list?  Get ready to have your heart and mind and hopefully body open to new possibilities when it comes to healthy sex. There was one big surprising idea where we can all start no matter where we are in our relationship with this tricky and important subject. If you have these questions: How do we rebuild healthy, pleasurable, intimate relationships?  How do we give ourselves permission to be sexual people? This is the podcast episode for you!! You can find the Jeremiah and Julia, the Sexvangelicals here: Website: www.sexvangelicals.com Instagram:  @sexvangelicals Facebook:  Sexvangelicals Podcast:  Sexvangelicals Substack:  substack.com/@sexvangelicals

''Without women we don’t have Jesus. We don’t have Christianity. We don’t have any of it.” (Claire K. McKeever-Burgett) Our episode this week is with Claire K. McKeever-Burgett, mom of two and author of Blessed are the Women: Naming and Reclaiming Women's Stories from the Gospels. Our conversation is full of wisdom, both fierce and tender, and the reclamation of the divine feminine in all her forms.  We chat through these questions: 1. Were there any particular women in the Bible whose stories deeply impacted you personally? If so, why? 2. What was the most surprising thing you learned while researching the stories of these women? 3. The Bible was written in a time and culture that was largely patriarchal. How did you navigate the cultural context while writing about these women’s stories?   4. What do you hope is the lasting impact of your work on the way people view women in the Bible? How have you and might we incorporate that into our parenting?  5. If you were sitting at a table with your kids and you knew for sure they would take one message with them on their life’s journey, what poem of yours would you read them? Get ready to sob your eyes out when you hear the answer to the last question. And also get ready to have your soul healed on the spot. If you want to feel understood and empowered as a woman or if you want to understand and empower women, this is the episode for you. You can find Claire here: Website: www.clairemckeeverburgett.com Instagram: @clairemckeeverburgett

'''Diligent study is precisely what got us here." Jamin Coller Our episode this week is with Jamin Coller, dad of six, podcaster and author of Dear Evangelicals. Our conversation is passionate, funny and so very eye-opening. We chat through these questions: 1.  Your book, Dear Evangelicals, frames deconstruction not as rebellion, but as a painful act of integrity after "stumbling upon information we didn't want." How can parents reframe their children's deconstruction as integrity, not betrayal? How can we help both deconstructionists and their former communities reframe this process as an act of integrity rather than betrayal — especially in the context of parenting? 2.  You write “We believed it when we were told all questions were welcomed.” What impact does it have on a child’s development when questions are only welcome until they cross an invisible line? And how can parents make space for the kind of questioning that once got them scorned? 3.  You state that the first wave of shame comes from the community, but the harder wave is internal — “the shame of having shelved obvious red flags for so long.” How do we process that internal shame, and what does it look like to parent from a place of healing rather than guilt? 4.  The book describes former church members instinctively seeking new spaces to preserve their faith, even after painful exits. What does this tell us about the human longing for spiritual belonging, and how do we model that search honestly for our kids? 5.  How did diligent study get you “here”? Also, for those of us who were once taught that information was dangerous, how do we now encourage our children to stay curious and think critically without fearing where it might lead? 6.  You have said that many of us try not to think — because we fear losing our salvation — and try not to speak — because we fear losing our friends. How did this play out for you personally and how do we raise children to value honesty and connection when so many of us were taught to protect belonging at the expense of our inner truth? 7.  If you could tell your kids one thing for their life journey, what would it be and why? We found Jamin compassionate, wise and funny. If you are wondering how you got to this place of deconstructing your faith, this is the episode for you. You can find Jamin here: Website: jamincoller.com Instagram:  @dear_evangelicals and @jamincoller