Advertise on podcast: Conversational Counseling

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ In the Church, we may not often recognize physical manifestations of abuse out in the public. But that doesn’t mean abuse isn’t happening among the people of our congregations or even within the four walls of the church building. In this episode, we’re joined by Chris Moles of PeaceWorks, who is a pastor, speaker and biblical counselor. Chris breaks down the root causes of abuse — and why abuse doesn’t always look like physical violence. He explores different expressions of abuse and where previous biblical counseling movements have shifted blame to substance abuse, stress, or even victims. As Christians, Chris reminds us, we shouldn’t rely only on the legal code to guide our definitions of abuse. We should explore how God tells us to treat His image bearers. We also emphasize that men can be safe. Trauma, addiction, neurodiversity and other factors can contribute to abuse, but they don’t cause it. And that should bring hope! Jesus died for the vulnerable and the perpetrators. He died to save everyone from their sinful hearts!  It’s the job of the Church and people of faith to advocate for the weak and vulnerable and not to excuse behaviors that dismiss agency, safety and security. Resources: More from Chris and PeaceWorks! When Home Hurts: A Guide for Responding Wisely to Domestic Abuse in Your Church by Jeremy Pierre and Greg Wilson God’s Protection of Women: When Abuse is Worse Than Divorce by Herb Vander Lugt Season 14 of Conversational Counseling on “Key Resources.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ What do you do when the people you love most in your life are struggling with addiction? This is the question Dawn Ward navigated every day for two decades as members of her immediate family faced addiction. She’s wondered, “Is there hope for my child?” She’s heard some programs say, “Once an addict, always an addict.” She’s encountered grief upon grief upon grief.  But she’s also encountered God’s provision and wisdom. She shares with Alex and Brenda how she’s learned to ask: “Lord, show me how and when to step back.” Dawn explains what it means to parent from a distance, and she encourages parents to give themselves permission to be human and share the weight with God and others. Throughout this episode, Dawn reminds us that God never gives up on us or the ones we love who are walking in addiction or destructive behavior. In every season, His grace and His faithfulness are there. Resources: More from Dawn!Facebook Group: Christian Moms of Addicted ChildrenFree Lament ClassLetting Go: Rugged Love for Wayward Souls by Dave Harvey and Paul Gilbert Season 14 of Conversational Counseling on “Key Resources.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ Is divorce ever an option? What’s the difference between a disappointing marriage and a destructive one? Does the Church ever harm rather than help vulnerable women in marriages? We break down all of these topics with Leslie Vernick in this episode of Conversational Counseling. Leslie has experienced abuse and volatile relationships in her own life. She was taught to forgive, forget, and get along, even if someone was a destructive influence in her life. Now she’s advocating for and equipping women in destructive marriages to create biblical boundaries, pursue safety, and steward their one life well. Leslie has been married for decades, and she makes it clear that she loves and supports marriage. But she also recognizes some faith circles can elevate the institution over the physical, emotional, and spiritual growth and safety of the people in a marriage. She advocates for churches and church leadership to become trauma-informed and to learn how to advocate well for every single image bearer. Resources: More from Leslie What Healthy Relationships are Really Made Of by Leslie Vernick Season 14 of Conversational Counseling on “Key Resources.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ How do you create a culture of flourishing in your marriage when you both bring different stories, preferences and goals? No matter how similar to our partner we think we are before marriage, there are often big differences in vision and preferences for the present and the future. Building upon the tools from the Gottman Institute, Alex discusses questions and strategies to help you explore your individual goals, navigate differences in opinion and preference and build shared meaning and purpose with your spouse. Resources: The Gottman Institute Season 13 Episode 5 Tool: Creating Shared Meaning and Purpose Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ Every day, we feel the weight of the brokenness in our world. Brokenness that strains our relationships. It can be hard for us to believe the best days are ahead. That one day what’s broken will be made whole — that our broken stories, hearts and relationships will be made whole. The Grand Narrative reminds us that our lives now are a “trailer” for a greater story. It shows us that our marriages are designed to bring us delight and flourishing, to point us to the oneness we will experience with the Lord and the saints in the new heavens and the new earth. The sweetness we experience in this life is only a shadow of the beauty we will one day experience. It’s these pieces of heaven we see, in spite of the brokenness, that help us look forward with hope. Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ Brokenness and ruptures in relationships are inevitable.  We live in a world where sin has distorted our relationships. But because Jesus conquered sin and death, brokenness isn’t the end of God’s Grand Narrative and doesn’t have to define our marriage stories. When our words or actions cause a rift in relationships, we need to make a good repair. But these repairs aren’t always easy. Sometimes repairs take time. And sometimes, even when repairs are made, restoration isn’t possible right away — or at all. Alex shares why making a good repair is vital for relationships and how you can navigate conflict resolution with your spouse.  Resources: Season 13 Episode 4 Tool: Redemption: Making a Good Repair Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ Do you worry that your spouse sees but doesn’t accept you? Do you feel insecure in the relationship?  When sin entered the world through the Fall, God’s good design was distorted. Our sense of agency, purpose, belonging, and rest was distorted, not only in our individual lives but in our marriages. But the Fall wasn’t the end of our story. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice and our redemption, we have hope! Now, Jesus is “untwisting” what the Fall distorted so we can delight in our marriages and flourish in relationship. When we understand He loves us and delights in us, then we can truly delight in and love our spouses. When we’re secure in Him, we can more confidently approach our spouses to share our sin and pain and suffering. This one-flesh relationship of marriage doesn’t happen when we walk down the aisle. It requires the daily work of reorienting ourselves to God’s redemptive story while we walk together moment by moment. Resources: The Gospel of Being Human by Marty Solomon and Reed Dent Season 1 Episode 1: The Lens: Saint, Sufferer, Sinner Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ How do you handle conflict? Do you face it head-on or does it make you want to leave the room? Do you prefer not to address it and instead do nice things for your partner in hopes that the conflict will just blow over? We all have different ways we handle conflict, and chances are you and your spouse might have two very different approaches. And when both of you are approaching conflict differently, what started as a disagreement about one thing can turn into a much bigger fight. Alex explains different relational styles when it comes to conflict and shares healthy, loving communication strategies to help you navigate disagreements in the moment. Resources: Season 13 Episode 3 Tool: Fall: Relational Trends Season 13 Episode 3 Tool: Relational Trends Chart ​​Season 13 Episode 3 Tool: Redemption: Making a Good Repair Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ Some days we feel like we can handle the stressors in our lives. Other days it feels like if one more thing happens, we’re going to break down, shut down, or lash out. We all have a window of tolerance. When we’re within this window of emotional and mental stability, we feel we can handle life's challenges. Yes, we might feel stressed and will definitely still encounter problems, yet we feel we can stay emotionally regulated through them. But when we’re outside this window, it’s a different story. When we try to solve conflict or respond to our spouse when we’re outside our window, it probably won’t end well for either person. Alex provides a tool to help us first understand our and our partner’s window of tolerance and then to respect when either partner needs to pause. Resources: Season 13 Episode 3 Tool: Fall: Taking a Pause Season 13 Episode 3 Tool: Window of Tolerance Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ When communication is falling apart, when your spouse feels more like an enemy than a partner, when illness or circumstances are straining your relationship — that’s when we really feel how the Fall affects our marriages.  Instead of thinking about delighting in one another, we can place our identity in our spouse, losing our own sense of self in the process. We can fear losing the relationship and compromise on our boundaries to find what we think is peace. So how do we get back to a “good place” in our marriage? One where we’re delighting in our spouse and our marriage. We first need to figure out what’s being distorted in our marriages. Then we can work together as we reorient our marriage story in light of God’s bigger story, the Grand Narrative. Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ Do you feel like you and your partner are missing each other?  Both of you are trying to communicate love and communicate what you need. But you’re still feeling distant, unsupported, or undervalued. It can be easy to lose touch with your spouse, especially when life becomes busy and overwhelming. But we’ve found two tools that are helpful to cultivate connection. These tools from The Gottman Institute may not feel like grand gestures. Yet they can be small touchpoints throughout the day that help you and your partner feel connected, even in conflict! Resources: The Gottman Institute Season 13 Episode 2 Tool Worksheet Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ “If marriage is good, then why doesn’t mine feel that way?” What should we do when our marriages don’t feel like a delight? When they don’t feel like they’ll ever be a good thing? When our marriages are difficult, we feel the weight of the Fall. And we can forget God’s original design. Even though there is sin and conflict in the world now, God still created and intends now for marriage to be a good thing for us and His kingdom. A life-giving thing. The Grand Narrative, God’s big story of redemption, encourages us to take a 10,000-foot view of our marriage story and to look at God’s design. We are created to be image-bearers, and HE calls us very good. He created marriage between two image-bearers as a good thing. In marriage, we can strive for what could be. We can delight in the good we see in our spouse and encourage them to grow towards God’s design when they are facing sin, temptation or destructive habits that aren’t helping them flourish. God’s design for marriage doesn’t excuse sin. But it helps us reframe our view of our spouse to see God’s good design. Resources: The Gottman Method Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ We don’t just bring two people into a marriage. We also bring our stories.  Sometimes there is abuse, hurt, sin and suffering on the pages of our stories. Sometimes we bring pictures of marriage that we’ve seen in our own families, pictures that can be good and bad. When spouses disagree on what their marriage should look like, it’s not because one is completely right and the other completely wrong. Often, we’ve created a picture for doing marriage the “right way” because that’s how our families or experiences have taught us it should be. That’s why we’re sharing a tool to help you and your spouse discern your Family Culture.  This tool isn’t to judge you. It’s to encourage you to be kind to yourself as you look back on who and what are influencing you and to help you determine what needs to change for you and your spouse. Resources: Emotionally Healthy Discipleship by Peter Scazzero Tool 1 Worksheet Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ Is marriage even worth it? What should a biblical marriage look like? What does it mean to live as God’s people in the realm of husband and wife?  Are we missing the bigger story? This season, we’re exploring what God says about marriage! But we’re not starting where you might think. Whether you’re married right now or not, we’re sure you’ve heard a lot of teaching on marriage. Maybe some teaching that’s made you weary.  Some focus merely on roles and responsibility. Some can elevate traditions of men over precepts in God’s word. But we’re taking a step back from the most referenced texts on marriage to examine marriage through the lens of the Grand Narrative, God’s big story of redemption. Zooming out helps us develop a richer and more nuanced paradigm for marriage. It helps us see the heart of the Designer and His purpose for us as image bearers inside and outside marriage.  Because God has a lot to say that applies to marriage! Resources: Conversational Counseling Season 7: Grand Narrative Season 13 of Conversational Counseling on “Marriage.” To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! ⁠ We often hear “I’m only human” as an exasperated admission. But what if being human isn’t the problem but the whole point?  Marty Solomon invites us to a theological framework that starts with our belovedness rather than skipping forward to our brokenness. As The BEMA Podcast host shares about his new book, The Gospel of Being Human (NavPress, April 2026), he posited that humanity being made in the image of God is the most real reality about our nature. That sin is real and has real consequences, but that it is not where the story starts. That if we can trust the story and trust the God of the story, we can put our faith into words that are meaningful and that hold the integrity of sound theology. One of the things our board member and pastor friend, Adam Coppock, calls us to do as we engage ideas and theology, like the concepts in Marty’s new book, is to make sure that we are not just listening to voices from our own specific tradition. So that we can approach discipleship and counseling from a place of curiosity, doing the liberating and hard work of growth and transformation so we can have a bigger view of who God is.  There’s a playfulness that can emerge when we ask questions of God, which can only shine through when we are comfortable in His presence. When we know that where sin abounds, His grace abounds all the more.  Resources: The Gospel of Being Human by Marty Solomon and Reed Dent The BEMA Podcast S3 Bonus: Marty Solomon Conversation Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-Jones To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season, click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Conversational Counseling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.