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Co-parenting a child with autism is hard enough when both parents are on the same page. When your ex is high-conflict, every choice (the diagnosis, therapy, school services, even which chicken nuggets are in the freezer) can turn into a fight. And your child feels all of it. Melissa Berger, a coach for parents of autistic kids and the mom of a daughter diagnosed at 16, joins us to discuss how to keep your child at the center when you and your ex can't agree on much. Melissa shares simple steps you can use this week for decisions, IEP and 504 meetings, moves between two homes, and keeping your child out of the conflict. If you're drafting a parenting plan, heading into a school meeting, or trying to understand why your child falls apart after every exchange, this talk will give you clarity and a plan. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ What to do first when parents disagree about a diagnosis ✅ Why one main decision maker keeps care focused on your child ✅ A parenting plan idea that cuts fights: defer to a named specialist ✅ How to handle IEP and 504 meetings when you and your ex are in conflict ✅ Why a calm weekly behavior summary beats blame ✅ What a social story is, and how it makes each switch between homes feel safer ✅ Why the same foods, bedding, and bedtimes at both homes matter so much ✅ How masking can look like "fine" until your child melts down at home ✅ Red flags that it may be time for a guardian ad litem or custody evaluator ✅ Melissa's four ways to protect autistic kids in high-conflict families ABOUT MELISSA BERGER Melissa Berger is a certified professional coach (CPCC, Co-Active Training Institute) who helps parents of autistic kids make big decisions with confidence. Her own daughter was diagnosed with autism at 16. Melissa also brings a child's-eye view of divorce: her parents split when she was 12, and she grew up moving between two very different households. Before coaching, she spent 30 years in executive leadership with Whole Foods Market. Her philosophy is simple: parents of autistic kids don't need more noise. They need clarity, confidence, and calm. 🌐 CONNECT WITH MELISSA BERGER Website: https://www.melissakberger.com 📖 RESOURCES MENTIONED James Hunt, Stories About Autism (Instagram: @storiesaboutautism) and his memoir, Love Needs No Words 💙 BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES Free 30-minute discovery call: https://beentheregotout.com Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication Instagram: @been_there_got_out Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists. If your ex makes co-parenting your special needs child feel impossible, you don't have to figure it out alone. #AutismParenting #CoParenting #HighConflictDivorce #AutismMom #SpecialNeedsParenting #ParentingPlan #IEP #Neurodivergent #CustodyBattle #CoParentingTips #NarcissisticEx #BeenThereGotOut

When your child starts pulling away, it's natural to want to prove to the world what your ex is doing. But the parents who make the most progress are often the ones who focus on patterns, on protecting themselves, and on asking for the right kind of help, rather than fighting over labels. In this conversation, Lisa sits down with parental alienation expert witness and author Dr. Lynn Steinberg to unpack the myths that keep alienated parents stuck, the laws changing what family courts can order, and the everyday behaviors that can accidentally look like alienation to a judge, even when you're the one trying to protect your kids. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ What parental alienation actually means, and why the behavior matters more than the terminology ✅ Why "it's not in the DSM" isn't evidence that alienation doesn't exist ✅ How covert alienation hides behind "I support the relationship, but I can't force them" ✅ Why protecting your shared parenting time early matters so much ✅ What relief you can request without leading with the word "alienation" ✅ Why "eye shot" matters as much as earshot, and why "Are you okay?" calls can backfire ✅ Why both parents need to be listed on school, medical, and activity records ✅ What to do when your child is sick during your ex's parenting time ✅ How Kayden's Law and California's Piqui's Law affect reunification ✅ Why re-establishing the parent-child hierarchy matters in therapy ABOUT DR. LYNN STEINBERG: Lynn Steinberg, Ph.D., holds a doctorate in clinical psychology and is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Registered Clinical Counsellor. She serves as an expert witness in family court for alienated parents, runs a four-day therapeutic reunification program called One Family at a Time, and is a trained mediator. She is the author of You're Not Crazy: Overcoming Parent/Child Alienation, a practical guide for alienated parents navigating the court system, and is currently writing Parental Alienation: An Inconvenient Truth. 🌐 MORE FROM DR. LYNN STEINBERG: Website: https://www.lynnsteinberg.com Book: You're Not Crazy: Overcoming Parent/Child Alienation (available on Amazon) 📚 BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES: Our book When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You, our Parental Alienation course, and free 30-minute discovery calls: https://beentheregotout.com/book2 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog Instagram: @been_there_got_out This video is for educational purposes only and is not legal or mental health advice. Laws vary by state and country, so please talk with a qualified family law attorney about your situation. #ParentalAlienation #HighConflictDivorce #CoParenting #CustodyBattle #FamilyCourt #AlienatedParent #ReunificationTherapy #KaydensLaw #CoParentingTips #DivorceWithKids

If you've been fighting in family court for months or years and your body won't cooperate, you are not failing. Maybe you're exhausted but can't sleep. Maybe you forget things, feel numb, or gain weight no matter how hard you work out. Your nervous system is doing exactly what it was built to do under chronic threat. In this episode, Lisa talks with Dr. Jen Lee, a physical therapist who works where your body and your story meet. She explains why long legal battles push so many survivors into fight-or-flight and then dissociation, how that shows up as real physical symptoms, and what you can do right now, even while your case is still open, to come back to yourself. Lisa knows this one firsthand. In the thick of her own case, she worked out three or four days a week and still gained weight. Her doctor asked what else was going on in her life. The answer was all of it. Her body was not broken. It was just braced. This is for you if you are in court now, out of court but still on edge, or still planning your exit. You are not too late. You are not too far gone. You make sense. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why feeling frozen during a custody battle is a normal stress response  ✅ How dissociation protects you, and why it isn't meant to last  ✅ Physical signs your body is stuck in survival mode  ✅ Why your reactive brain is the wrong brain for depositions and text replies  ✅ Why memory gaps are normal, and how notes protect you  ✅ A simple extended-exhale breath that tells your body you're safe  ✅ How movement and singing bring you back into your body  ✅ Why you don't have to wait until court is over to start healing  ✅ How keeping small promises to yourself rebuilds self-trust WHY THIS MATTERS Courts notice how you show up. When your body is stuck in survival mode, it is hard to think clearly, stay calm and say what you mean. Care for your nervous system is not a luxury. It is part of your case, and part of how you get your life back. ABOUT DR. JEN LEE Dr. Jennifer Lee has been a physical therapist for 16 years. She spent her first decade in orthopedics treating back, neck and knee pain, then went through what she calls her own nervous breakdown in 2017. That experience sent her deep into the study of the nervous system and why stress and trauma show up as pain. Today she uses the Barral approach, including visceral and neural manipulation, at her practice in Phoenix, Arizona. Her work is gentle and never "no pain, no gain." CONNECT WITH DR. JEN LEE Website: https://l2ept.com  Instagram: @l2ept  Practice: Phoenix, Arizona BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES Strategic Communication course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication Our book: https://beentheregotout.com/book2  Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog  Instagram: @been_there_got_out  Free 30-minute discovery call: https://beentheregotout.com For education only, not medical or mental health advice. Please talk with a qualified provider about your own care. #NervousSystemRegulation #Dissociation #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #NarcissisticAbuseRecovery #LegalAbuse #TraumaHealing #VisceralManipulation #DivorceStress #BeenThereGotOut

When your child won't talk to you, the pain can feel so physical that you don't know where to put it. Lawrence Joss knows that feeling well. He started Parental Alienation Advocates because he couldn't find anything that could "reach the itch," and today its free, peer-run 12-step meetings, Parental Alienation Anonymous (PAA), are a lifeline for alienated parents and grandparents around the world. Right before we recorded, we got a message from someone who knows us both, saying PAA saved his life and his relationship with his daughter. So we asked Lawrence to walk us through what actually works when the court system is grinding you down and your kids are pulling away. What he shared challenges a lot of well-meaning advice. Taking the high road isn't always the right move. "Being nice is not a shortcut." Insisting everyone understand the words "parental alienation" can cost you more than it gains. And stepping back to give your child space, without understanding the consequences, can quietly reinforce the other parent's message that you don't care. Most of all, Lawrence keeps coming back to one truth: if you aren't grounded and resourced, you can't show up the way your kids, the judge, or you yourself need you to. In this conversation, you'll learn: ✅ Why family court problems are systemic, not personal, and how that shift protects you ✅ How to tell the difference between acceptance and giving up when your child rejects you ✅ How to ask the court for relief without ever using the label "parental alienation" ✅ Why a "cooling off" period can backfire in alienation cases ✅ What to say when friends and acquaintances ask how your kids are doing ✅ How to check your motives before showing up at your child's events ✅ What to expect at your first Parental Alienation Anonymous meeting Lawrence also shares his own story: six years with no contact with one daughter, blocked on everything, and then, after years of doing his own work, reconnecting with her and meeting his grandkids for the first time. As he puts it, "It didn't come in the order that I wanted, but it came in the order that I needed." If you've been told it's too late, or you're exhausted from carrying this alone, this episode is for you. You deserve support through this, and you don't have to find it by yourself. CONNECT WITH LAWRENCE JOSS & PARENTAL ALIENATION ADVOCATES 🌐 Parental Alienation Advocates: https://pa-a.org 🤝 Parental Alienation Anonymous meetings: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com 🎙️ Podcast: Family Disappeared (search it on your favorite podcast app) BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES 📖 Our book, When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GDJQKLVK 📚 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication 📞 Book a free 30-minute discovery call: https://beentheregotout.com 💬 Instagram: @been_there_got_out This video is for educational purposes and is not legal or mental health advice. If you are in crisis in the U.S., call or text 988. For domestic violence support, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-7233. #ParentalAlienation #AlienatedParent #ParentalAlienationSupport #HighConflictDivorce #CoParenting #FamilyCourt #EmotionalRegulation #12Steps

Can your therapy be used against you in a custody case? It's one of the most common fears we hear, and it keeps far too many parents from getting help they need right when they need it most. New York matrimonial and family law attorney Lisa Zeiderman returns to Been There Got Out with an honest answer. When custody is at issue, your mental health records can often be subpoenaed. But the parent who gets treatment, stays consistent, and shows insight is usually in a stronger position than the parent who avoids help. As Lisa puts it, it's not about the diagnosis; it's about compliance. Lisa also explains which parts of your records are usually protected, the safeguards your attorney can ask the court for, and why pulling your child's therapist into your case can do real harm. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why custody cases can open your medical and mental health records  ✅ Why avoiding therapy can hurt you more than any diagnosis  ✅ What courts look for: honesty, consistency, and treatment compliance  ✅ The difference between a therapist's private notes and your records  ✅ What's usually discoverable: diagnosis, attendance, and medication  ✅ Safeguards to request, like in camera review and attorneys-only access  ✅ How motions to quash or limit a subpoena work  ✅ Why subpoenaing your child's therapist should be a last resort  ✅ How a stipulation can keep your child's therapy out of court  ✅ How to respond when your ex keeps calling you "crazy" ABOUT LISA ZEIDERMAN Lisa Zeiderman is a managing partner at Miller Zeiderman LLP, a matrimonial and family law firm serving Manhattan, Westchester, Brooklyn, Long Island, and the Hudson Valley. Since 2013 she has grown the practice from four people to about 55, with a focus on complex litigated custody cases and high-net-worth divorce. She is a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and a founding member of the American Academy of Certified Financial Litigators, and she recently co-authored a New York Law Journal article on mental health records in child custody cases. This is her second conversation with us, and she's known for walking into negotiations and courtrooms prepared. CONNECT WITH LISA ZEIDERMAN 🌐 Blog: https://lisazeiderman.com  ⚖️ Miller Zeiderman LLP: https://mzwnylaw.com  📧 Email: [email protected]  🎧 Lisa's first BTGO episode: https://youtu.be/av0yq0fg7yo   BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES 📖 When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You: https://beentheregotout.com/book2  💬 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication  📝 Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog  📱 Instagram: @been_there_got_out  🎙️ Podcast: https://beentheregotout.buzzsprout.com This episode is educational and isn't legal advice. Lisa practices in New York, and procedures and terminology vary by state and country, so talk with a licensed attorney where you live about your situation. #CustodyBattle #MentalHealthAndCustody #TherapyRecords #HighConflictDivorce #FamilyLaw #ChildCustody #CoParenting #NarcissisticAbuse #ParentalAlienation #DivorceAdvice

🎯 "I thought my world had collapsed." When Katy Harris separated, a court order followed her 11-year-old son's wishes: he would live with his dad, while his older and younger brothers stayed with her. Within months, contact had stopped. Then came the part no court ever sees. In this deeply honest conversation, Lisa talks with Katy and her colleague Lucy, two UK family mediators on opposite ends of the custody spectrum. Katy is the mom whose middle son walked away. Lucy is the stepmom whose partner won custody of his two girls for safety reasons. Together they explore what children really need when their parents separate, and why an 11-year-old should never carry the weight of choosing. Content note: This conversation includes discussion of child criminal exploitation, substance use, and a family member's suicide. Please take care while watching. What You'll Learn: ✅ Why letting a child choose where to live can leave them more vulnerable, not less ✅ Why the "in-between" middle child (ages 11 to 13) is especially at risk after separation ✅ How exploiters and gangs target children who feel they don't belong anywhere ✅ Why a child who comes home can't simply pick up where they left off ✅ What "keeping the door open" looks like when your child says they want nothing to do with you ✅ Why it's the conflict, not the separation, that harms children most ✅ The lifeboat image that explains why some kids reach for neither parent ✅ What a stepparent carries, and how Lucy built a working relationship with her stepdaughters' mom ✅ How skilled mediators find "one small agreement" to soften two angry parents ✅ Why no court can build the village a separating family needs, and how to start building it yourself About Katy Harris & Lucy: Katy Harris is an accredited family and civil mediator and the founder of Mediation Matters Midlands and The London Mediation Company in the UK. She holds a law degree, spent 17 years as a child development consultant focused on raising resilient children and supporting their mental health, and retrained as a mediator after her own difficult separation. She specializes in child-inclusive, trauma-informed mediation, trains mediators internationally, and co-hosts the Bridging the Gap conference with Tracy Ann Moore-Grant of the Amicable Divorce Network. Lucy is a family mediator at Mediation Matters Midlands with a background in psychology and counseling and a master's degree in child and adolescent mental health. Her master's research focused on how stepparents affect children, a subject she knows firsthand as a stepmom of two and a mom of one. A quick note for our US and Canadian viewers: Cafcass is the UK service that advises family courts on children's welfare, and a MIAM is the confidential assessment meeting required before most UK family mediation. "County lines" refers to drug gangs that exploit children as couriers. CONNECT WITH KATY & LUCY: 🌐 Mediation Matters Midlands: https://mediationmattersmidlands.co.uk 📧 Email: [email protected] 💼 Katy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katy-harris-2096bb85/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MediationMattersMidlandsLtd/ 📸 Instagram: Mediation Matters Midlands Ltd 🏛️ Also: The London Mediation Company and the Bridging the Gap conference BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES: 📕 When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (foreword by Bill Eddy): https://BeenThereGotOut.com/Book2 📚 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication 📞 Free 30-minute discovery call: https://BeenThereGotOut.com 📸 Instagram: @been_there_got_out 🌐 Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog #ParentalAlienation #ChildRefusesContact #HighConflictDivorce #CoParenting #FamilyMediation #Stepmom #CustodyBattle #DivorceAndKids #KeepTheDoorOpen #BeenThereGotOut

"One parent becomes the good parent, and one parent becomes the bad parent." That's how Shawna Leatherman describes the moment parental alienation actually begins, and it's almost never in a courtroom. It starts small: a "no more juice" overruled at bedtime, a rule at one house that quietly doesn't apply at the other. Thirteen years into her own experience with parental alienation, Shawna, who writes and speaks as "The Unseen Parent," walks through exactly how those tiny, seemingly insignificant moments compound into a full alienation pattern, and why almost nobody sees it happening until it's too late. In this conversation, Shawna and Lisa break down the mechanics of undermining, exclusive alliance, and what psychologist Dr. Amy Baker calls "poisonous messages" - the subtle signals that tell a child their other parent is unsafe, unloving, or unavailable. You'll hear how something as small as a sigh before answering the phone, or asking "are you okay?" a little too often, can quietly convince a child that one home isn't safe. This is a practical, pattern-recognition-focused conversation for any co-parent who suspects something is happening but can't quite name it yet.    WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:  ✅ How undermining ("no, it's okay, you can have it") lays the groundwork for exclusive alliance  ✅ The difference between the "enforcer" parent and the "rescuer" parent — and why it matters  ✅ What it means to "minimize the other parent's authority," and how kids absorb it  ✅ The "Three U's" framework: how poisonous messages paint a parent as unsafe, unloving, or unavailable  ✅ Why the "are you okay?" phone call is one of the most common (and least recognized) forms of alienation  ✅ The "eye shot" rule — why body language matters even when your child can't hear you  ✅ Why most parents doing these things aren't fully aware of the damage they're causing  ✅ How to start recognizing these patterns in your own co-parenting relationship before they compound    ABOUT SHAWNA LEATHERMAN:  Shawna Leatherman is a mother, writer, and advocate who has lived through parental alienation for almost 13 years. She created "The Unseen Parent" as a resource and community for parents who feel isolated, unheard, and judged for an experience most people don't understand. She is the author of "The Unseen Parent: When Silence Hurts — Faith, Truth and Loving Through Parental Alienation," which draws on her own journal-writing as a form of therapy and offers a faith-rooted perspective on truth, forgiveness, and resilience. Shawna's work focuses on making alienation dynamics visible — not as a men-versus-women issue, but as a behavioral pattern that can happen to any parent, and one she believes needs to be discussed openly rather than in silence.    🔗 CONNECT WITH SHAWNA:  Book: "The Unseen Parent: When Silence Hurts - Faith, Truth and Loving Through Parental Alienation," available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Kindle.  Instagram, TikTok & YouTube: search "The Unseen Parent"

"A toxic environment is a toxic environment, whether the parents are together or they're separate." That's not a divorce coach talking. That's Dave Kopeny — a former probation officer, school counselor, and sheriff's department investigator who now works as a private investigator specializing in families whose teenagers are struggling with substance use. And what he told Lisa in this conversation is something every parent navigating a high-conflict divorce or difficult co-parenting situation needs to hear: research shows an amicable divorce is actually better for a child's mental health than staying in a toxic marriage. The problem is, most of the people in our community don't have an amicable divorce. They have a toxic divorce and a toxic co-parenting situation — and that, Dave explains, is one of the heaviest burdens a child can carry, precisely because they have no control over it. This episode goes far beyond drug facts and statistics. Dave draws a direct line between the conflict a child witnesses at home — whether inside a marriage or across two households — and their risk of turning to substances to cope with feelings they don't know how to name. He also speaks candidly to a dynamic so many BTGO parents live with every day: the co-parent who checks out entirely. Dave sees it often in his own work with families — usually a father who doesn't have day-to-day custody, is angry at his ex, and simply stops showing up. Dave's advice for the parent left holding it all is direct, practical, and free of judgment. What You'll Learn: ✅ Why research shows an amicable divorce protects kids better than a toxic intact marriage ✅ How ongoing co-parenting conflict becomes a burden kids have no ability to control  ✅ What to do when only one parent is willing to engage with a struggling teen  ✅ Why you can't have a productive conversation with your child while you're dysregulated yourself  ✅ The specific behavioral changes Dave tells parents to document before confronting a teen  ✅ Why a mother's intuition about her child is worth listening to — and what Dave tells fathers about it  ✅ How to reframe a hard conversation as "you and your child against addiction," not you against your child  ✅ Why today's marijuana is a different, far more potent substance than the drug earlier generations knew  ✅ The "four eyes vs. two eyes" problem single parents face — and who to bring in when you can't partner with your ex  ✅ How to open a non-shaming conversation with a teen you're worried about, in under two minutes About Dave Kopeny: Dave Kopeny brings a rare, full-circle perspective to the world of adolescent substance use. He grew up in a household shaped by his father's alcoholism, later lost a brother to long-term addiction and a sister-in-law to a heroin overdose — experiences that shaped both his empathy and his career. Dave spent decades working directly with high-risk youth, starting as a juvenile probation officer in California, then serving as a school counselor, returning to intensive probation work, and later investigating for a sheriff's department. Today, as a private investigator, he specializes in helping families whose children are struggling with substance use disorder find their way toward lasting sobriety. He is the author of a book on adolescent addiction and founded a free online community where parents can learn the facts about teen substance use without cost or obligation.

"Force demands fairness. Power prepares for reality. Force chases. Power disengages when engagement is useless." That's the framework Manalizing founder Garth Haslem uses to explain why so many marriages, divorces, and co-parenting relationships fall apart — and it's strikingly close to what we teach in our own Strategic Communication Course. In this raw, unscripted conversation, Lisa sits down with Garth to unpack the difference between force and power in relationships, why men are conditioned from childhood to stay silent about what's actually hurting them, and what happens when decades of suppressed emotion finally come out "in the wrong place, with the wrong people, at the wrong time." If you've ever wondered why your ex communicates the way they do, why the men in your life won't open up, or why your own attempts to "just talk it out" keep backfiring, this episode reframes the whole conversation. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ The difference between force and power — and why force always backfires in high-conflict situations  ✅ Why men are taught from childhood that vulnerability is dangerous, and what that costs them (and their families)  ✅ The "trash compactor" pattern: how suppressed emotions eventually explode at the wrong time  ✅ What "divorce brain" is, how to recognize it in yourself or your ex, and why it's a form of force  ✅ How internalized criticism turns into self-hatred — and sometimes into abusive behavior  ✅ Why some men become the "ATM Dad" and how that dynamic damages marriages from the inside  ✅ A real, vulnerable account of parental alienation from a father's perspective  ✅ The structure of a Manalizing meeting: the declaration, the "one word" check-in, being heard, and being seen  ✅ Concrete examples of force vs. power language you can apply to your own co-parenting communication  ✅ Why "happy wife, happy life" can quietly become a form of coercive control when taken too far  ✅ How isolation compounds a crisis — and why having even one person who will listen changes everything ABOUT GARTH HASLEM: Garth Haslem is the founder of Manalizing, a national peer support community that meets twice monthly by Zoom to give men a structured, confidential space to be heard, seen, and known — often for the first time in their adult lives. Garth built Manalizing out of his own hard-won experience: two marriages, a divorce he navigated with no one to turn to, and a relationship with one of his three daughters that remains estranged today. He speaks openly about his own struggles with meaninglessness, force, and control, and has adapted Dr. David Hawkins' "Power vs. Force" framework into a practical, everyday tool for men navigating conflict, divorce, and fatherhood. Garth is not a therapist — he is something rarer in this space: a man willing to go first.

"I would wake up every single morning, there'd be a moment when I'd forget who I was, and then I would just be furious. And it wasn't even at my ex — it was at the system allowing this to go on and on and on."   If that sounds familiar, this conversation is for you.   Lisa opens this episode admitting that rage is one of the single most common emotions she hears about from people living with legal abuse and parental alienation. So she brought in Jen Gallagher, a limited license psychologist in Michigan with over 20 years as a therapist, who now specializes in helping women work through rage using a neurobiological, brain-based approach.   This isn't a conversation about anger management. It's a conversation about why your rage might be the sanest possible response to years of injustice — and what to actually do with it so it doesn't run your life, or your health, from the inside.   Jen explains the real difference between everyday anger and deep, cumulative rage, why rage is a normal, protective emotion your brain is designed to feel (not a character flaw), and why the physical toll of suppressing it for years can show up as chronic illness, "sideways" explosions, or relentless self-criticism. If you've ever asked "when is this going to stop hurting," this episode gives you a real answer.   What You'll Learn:   ✅ The actual difference between anger and rage, and why rage runs so much deeper  ✅ Why rage is one of the brain's built-in protective systems, not a personality flaw  ✅ How to tell the difference between rage (a feeling) and violence (a behavior)  ✅ Why men and women are conditioned to express rage so differently  ✅ Why there's no "timeline" for how long you're allowed to feel furious  ✅ Why chronic legal abuse produces a completely sane, expected rage response  ✅ The physical cost of suppressing rage for years, including chronic illness  ✅ How trauma can disconnect you from rage you don't even know you're carrying  ✅ The first step to reclaiming your rage: simply naming it out loud  ✅ A simple body-awareness practice to interrupt a rage spiral in real time  ✅ What to look for in a therapist if rage is the issue you need help with  About Jen Gallagher: Jen Gallagher is a limited license psychologist (a Michigan-licensed therapist with a master's degree) with more than 20 years of clinical experience. Her practice takes a neurobiological, brain-based approach to emotional healing, and she primarily works with women in midlife who are learning to build a healthier relationship with their rage — turning it into a source of power and energy instead of shame. She describes rage as one of the most misunderstood emotions, and she's made it her mission to change that.

"One hundred percent of what was reported back to me was untrue." That's what it's like to be the step-parent inside a parental alienation campaign — standing in the middle of a custody war that started long before you arrived. In this conversation, licensed clinical social worker, former guardian ad litem, and 40-year psychotherapist Jessica Anne Pressler shares something we almost never hear on this channel: what parental alienation looks like from the step-parent's chair. Jessica spent 15 years inside the court system conducting custody evaluations, and she also lived through alienation herself as the new partner a mother turned her daughter against. Jessica's story starts with a genuinely happy first year, a proposal, and then, almost overnight, a child who wouldn't come to the house anymore. We talk through the emails that arrived hours after her wedding, comparing her to a "black widow." Jessica calls this "borrowed scenarios" — language dressed up as a child's own feelings that could never have come from an eight- or nine-year-old. We also dig into what happens to the "healthy" partner who watches someone they love get pulled away by fear of losing a child. Jessica is honest about her husband's catch-22 — caught between the family he built with her and a daughter conditioned to see any closeness with Jessica as betrayal of her mother. And she's just as honest about her own fear of abandonment, what she calls her own "traitor within," also the title of her forthcoming novel. What You'll Learn: ✅ Why children work so hard to please the alienating parent, and how "conditional love" and fear of loss drive that behavior ✅ How to recognize "borrowed scenarios" — adult language coming out of a child's mouth ✅ Why an ex refusing to allow a child into therapy is itself a red flag worth naming ✅ What "hatred by association" looks like when it spreads to a target parent's friends, hobbies, and new family ✅ How grandparents and extended family can become "flying monkeys," and why it happens ✅ Warning signs new partners often miss before marrying into a high-conflict family ✅ Why the divorce becoming legally final can trigger an ex rather than settle things down ✅ What a target parent's household needs to be for a child: calm, safe, and free of commentary about the other parent ✅ Why BTGO tells clients not to question their kids about time spent with the other parent ✅ Where a target parent's own grief and anger belong — and why it's never in front of the kids About Jessica Anne Pressler: Jessica Anne Pressler is a licensed clinical social worker with nearly 40 years of experience as a psychotherapist. For 15 years, she conducted custody and visitation evaluations within the family court system, giving her a rare, dual vantage point on parental alienation — as a professional evaluator and, later, as a step-parent who lived through it in her own marriage. She is the author of the forthcoming debut novel "The Traitor Within," following a woman named Cassandra through a cycle of toxic relationships and the internal "traitor" that keeps her abandoning herself first. Jessica has appeared on Been There Got Out before, and her story is also referenced in our book "When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You."

"That is gaslighting — because the parent isn't thinking about what the child is going through. They're just making the child question their own reality." That's how licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Pinkal Panchal describes one of the most common — and most invisible — things that happens to kids caught in a high-conflict divorce or custody battle. Not the dramatic stuff. The quiet, everyday moments: a comment here, a video call there, a "your mom isn't as good as you think" dropped into an otherwise normal afternoon. In this conversation, Pinkal joins Lisa Johnson to unpack exactly what gaslighting looks like when it's aimed at kids instead of a partner — and why so many well-meaning parents do it without ever meaning to. What You'll Learn ✅ How to recognize when a child is being fed conflicting realities between two homes ✅ Why kids describe the divorce experience as "heartbroken, dream-broken, and brain-broken" ✅ The physical and psychological symptoms Pinkal sees most often in alienated kids, including hypersomnia and eating disorders ✅ A real case example of a parent using a child to monitor an ex's dating life — and why it backfires ✅ Why permissive, rule-free homes often (temporarily) win a child's loyalty ✅ A concrete, repeatable strategy for reconnecting with a disregulated or pulling-away child ✅ Why giving your child real agency is more powerful than defending yourself ✅ The three questions Pinkal asks before recommending couples therapy after domestic violence ✅ Why Pinkal believes family therapy should happen before the legal battle, not after About Pinkal Panchal Pinkal Panchal is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist based in Newport Beach, California, where she runs a private practice serving clients from age two through seventy-five and older. Pinkal specializes in couples and family work, and she also facilitates a free, anonymous domestic violence support group where survivors can log in, share, and be heard without ever turning on a camera or revealing their name. Coming from a community where mental health carries deep stigma, Pinkal has made it her mission to bring therapy and honest conversation to people who might otherwise never ask for help. In her therapy room, she regularly works with children caught in the middle of custody battles and with the parents trying to rebuild those relationships.

"Our Family Wizard is the single source of truth." That's how attorney and Guardian ad Litem Elle Barr describes the platform she helps educate judges and family law professionals on nationwide - and it's a line worth sitting with if you're currently fighting to be believed by a court, an evaluator, or your own attorney.    In this episode, Elle joins Lisa and Chris to pull back the curtain on OurFamilyWizard (OFW), one of the most commonly court-ordered co-parenting apps in the country. If you've ever wondered why a judge would order you onto a parenting app, whether it's really different from just texting your ex, or how its AI actually rewrites hostile messages before they're sent, this conversation answers all of it - straight from someone who sits on both sides of the process.    Elle starts by dismantling the biggest misconception she hears from parents: that a court-ordered parenting app exists to punish them. In reality, it exists to protect the child by reducing conflict and creating accountability for both parents - not just the one who "needed" it.    Every action on OurFamilyWizard is time-stamped and preserved, which is why Elle calls it a single source of truth: messages can't be quietly edited or deleted, and that permanence protects both people, not just whoever's usually blamed for starting conflict. That protection matters more given what Elle describes next: "deceitful software," a growing category of apps that let someone fabricate an entire fake text or voicemail thread and present it as real evidence. She shares a personal story involving her own children pranking her with a spoofed phone call to show just how convincing these fakes can look.    The heart of the episode is Tone Meter AI, OurFamilyWizard's built-in artificial intelligence that flags an inflammatory message in real time and offers a calmer rewrite before it's sent. Elle walks through a live example - a father about to write "don't be late as usual" - and shows exactly how the AI intercepts it. If you've worked on gray writing or the FRAC model with BTGO, this will feel like validation from an independent source: a leading family-law technology platform arrived at nearly identical communication principles.    Elle also addresses privacy directly. She explains why OFW added a blurred video background to its Calls feature, protecting a survivor's location during virtual visitation, and is direct about children's limited accounts: they see the shared calendar and journal, but not private messages between their parents.    Most useful for BTGO's community: Elle confirms OurFamilyWizard offers fee waivers not only for financial hardship, but for any survivor with a protection order, restraining order, or civil restraint - a resource many don't know exists.    The conversation closes with two scenarios many of you are living right now: what to do when your ex claims they "can't figure out" the app, and how to make a persuasive, low-conflict case for using a parenting app before you have a court order requiring it.    📋 WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:  ✅ Understand why family courts increasingly order parenting apps, and what "best interest of the child" really means in that decision  ✅ See exactly how OurFamilyWizard's Tone Meter AI rewrites a hostile message into one that is calm, clear, and child-focused  ✅ Learn why a properly used parenting app functions as a tamper-proof "single source of truth" for every co-parenting communication  ✅ Discover how fake text-message and voicemail apps are being used to fabricate evidence, and how to protect yourself from them  ✅ Find out how to apply for OurFamilyWizard's domestic violence fee waiver if cost or safety has kept you from using a parenting app  ✅ Learn what the blurred video background feature protects, and why it matters for survivor privacy during virtual visitation  ✅ Understand exactly what children can and cannot see when they have their own limited OurFamilyWizard account  ✅ Hear how a Guardian ad Litem responds when a parent claims they "can't figure out" the app  ✅ See how the shared calendar and Parenting Schedule Modification tool can eliminate entire categories of scheduling conflict    👤 ABOUT ELLE BARR:  Elle Barr is a family law attorney based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, with nearly 23 years in practice. As a court-appointed Guardian ad Litem, she has represented thousands of children and made best-interest recommendations that have shaped custody outcomes for families across her jurisdiction. Alongside her legal practice, Elle serves as OurFamilyWizard's Judicial Education Coordinator, training judges, family law attorneys, mental health professionals, parenting coordinators, divorce coaches, and certified financial planners on how co-parenting technology can reduce conflict and improve outcomes for families going through divorce or separation.

"Obsessive thinking is repetitive self-stimulation. It has movement in it — thought is a movement, it's an energy form." That's how somatic psychologist Annie Brook describes the loop so many of us get stuck in when life feels unsafe and unsolvable — the 3am replaying of a text from your ex, the imagined arguments you have in the shower, the same worry circling through your mind for the hundredth time.    If you're navigating high-conflict divorce, co-parenting with someone who won't cooperate, or the daily uncertainty of parental alienation, you already know this loop intimately. Chris Barry welcomes back somatic psychologist Annie Brook, Ph.D., LPC, for her second appearance on Been There Got Out, this time diving deep into why our nervous systems get hijacked by obsessive thinking, and exactly what to do about it.    Annie doesn't just explain the neuroscience, though she gets wonderfully geeky about the amygdala and hippocampus along the way. She teaches real, physical, in-the-moment tools you can use the next time your brain won't let go: an exercise to find the "center" of your head, a boundary practice she calls the hula hoop, a detective exercise for noticing exactly how you ruminate, and her signature "Blink Blink" technique for turning a stuck, painful thought back into free energy. Chris connects each tool directly back to what our community faces: court prep, hostile co-parenting calls, and the exhausting mental replay that comes with legal abuse.    What You'll Learn:    ✅ Why obsessive thinking is your brain's attempt to "motor" its way out of an unsolvable stress, not a personal failing  ✅ How a simple axis exercise helps you find the calm, centered part of your brain instead of the anxious, analytical forehead  ✅ How to build an invisible "hula hoop" boundary that protects your energy without shutting people out  ✅ How to put on a "detective hat" and identify whether your rumination shows up as pictures, words, or sounds  ✅ Why talking to your own rumination like a friend who needs help can surface what you actually need  ✅ How one client turned a court-ordered call with her abusive ex into a "bingo card" that made the calls bearable  ✅ Why staying "on the surfboard" instead of getting pulled into the emotional undertow protects your nervous system  ✅ How the "Blink Blink" technique dynamites a stuck thought and turns it back into usable energy  ✅ How the amygdala and hippocampus build a lifelong "file cabinet" of safety patterns, and why that matters for your triggers  ✅ Why nervous system regulation isn't a luxury for our community, it's a strategic necessity for court and co-parenting    About Annie Brook: Annie Brook, Ph.D., LPC, is a somatic psychologist with over four decades of experience helping people repair and regulate their nervous systems. She is the former Director of Body Psychotherapy for the Master's program in Somatic Psychology at Naropa University, and co-founded the clinic Colorado Therapies, where she has worked with families, children, gang-involved youth, and survivors of abuse. Annie holds a Ph.D. in Perinatal and Somatic Psychology and blends neuroscience, movement, and body-based practices to help clients recover from trauma and chronic stress. She teaches ongoing classes including Healing Complex Trauma and Healing Birth Trauma, trains therapists in somatic methods, and is expanding her practice to include equine therapy. This is Annie's second appearance on Been There Got Out, and Chris and Lisa consider her one of the community's most requested guests.

“The court doesn’t care who was mean.” That’s not a throwaway line, according to Beverly Hills divorce attorney Nikoo Berenji, it’s one of the biggest blind spots she sees parents walk into family court with, and it can quietly sabotage an otherwise strong custody case. In this conversation, Nikoo, Senior Counsel at Berenji & Associates and a 20-year veteran of high-net-worth, high-conflict divorce litigation, breaks down exactly what judges weigh when deciding custody, and what doesn’t move the needle at all, no matter how unfair that feels. She walks through a real case where a mother spent enormous time and money building a case around her ex’s past absence as a parent, only to watch it backfire because the court only cares about what’s best for the child going forward, not who was the “better” spouse in the past. She also shares a case where a court took the rare step of giving a father six months of primary custody to reset a relationship that had been damaged by alienating behavior; proof that judges are paying closer attention to alienation than ever before. Whether you’re early in your custody case, deep into a years-long battle, or trying to figure out why your strategy isn’t working, this episode reframes what “winning” in family court actually requires. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN: ✅ Why proving your ex was a bad spouse rarely helps your custody case — and can actively hurt it ✅ The one best-interest factor that quietly decides more cases than people realize ✅ A real case where alienating behavior led a judge to remove children from their primary caretaker for six months ✅ How false or exaggerated domestic violence claims get used as a “silver bullet strategy” — and why it can backfire ✅ Whether courts are getting smarter about recognizing parental alienation tactics ✅ Why interrogating your kids after time with the other parent can be used against you ✅ The boundaries you need around discussing legal matters when kids are in the home ✅ Why a detailed, specific parenting plan prevents more conflict than any argument ever will ✅ The “therapy clause” that can eliminate one of the most common sources of post-divorce conflict ✅ Signs your child is struggling, even if they seem like they’re handling everything fine ✅ A simple daily practice Nikoo recommends to every client, no matter how skeptical they are at first ABOUT NIKOO BERENJI: Nikoo Berenji is Senior Counsel at Berenji & Associates Divorce Lawyers, a Beverly Hills family law firm marking more than two decades of practice focused on high-net-worth, high-conflict divorce and custody cases. Before family law, Nikoo built her career in corporate law and government criminal practice, graduating from UCLA and earning a full scholarship to Berkeley Law, where she also served as a federal judicial extern to the Honorable Judge S. James Otero before starting out as an associate at Latham & Watkins LLP, one of the largest law firms in the world. That combination of corporate, criminal, and family law experience shapes how she approaches the emotionally charged, financially complex cases her firm handles, many of which involve narcissistic dynamics between spouses who are highly successful in their professional lives. Nikoo is also an adjunct professor at both UCLA School of Law and USC Gould School of Law, and she and her team work with clients across the country and around the world, with a particularly heavy concentration of cases in Southern California.